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Reconciliation
User Topic: The Whys:
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, February 18th (Tuesday)

After a fight on Saturday he took Sunday to write (without any prompt from me and he's not a writer) me four pages of his whys:

The first time: he was so hurt by what I did he couldnít think straight, his walls were down and when someone paid attention to him and wanted him, and he didnít know if either of us wanted to be married, he was vulnerable and it felt good. He wanted to do it. He didnít do it to purposely hurt me but he was angry.

The second time: he felt like he didnít get the same time in an affair that I did and he wanted to feel good again. He was crazy from what I did and not thinking like himself. He wanted to do it. He wanted to be in a relationship with someone who hadnít cheated on him. After I caught him a second time he realized he had a problem. And that what he did was very wrong but that he was so traumatized he couldnít think straight.

He did everything for our family Ė put everything into us by providing and being a good Dad, and therefore doesnít have many friends. He had but one friend to turn to when I had an affair. He resents this.

This was very introspective for him and I told him this and how much I appreciated it Ė I just paraphrased but it went on for 4 pages with him saying heíd take his consequences like a man Ė not going out with the guys, me not trusting him.

My rub: I am traumatized from what he did yet I have no right to act out like this. I never mention any reasons for my affair other than my own poor coping mechanisms to whatever life threw at me. Because really, it doesnít matter. Iím not any better than him. But I did put my heart and soul into recovering as a BS, which included not hurting anyone else. I resent that he didnít do this.

[This message edited by rachelc at 10:18 AM, February 18th (Tuesday)]


his Dday: 2/10
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4926 | Registered: Dec 2010
Razor
Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 10:49 AM, February 18th (Tuesday)

Resentment can be like termites in your soul. And I dont know how to not resent WWs LTA. Wish I did.

In the end I dont think knowing the WHYs helps the BS. In my case I think it all boils down to *I wanted to so I did*. Everything else sounds to me like excuses.

HOW maybe a better question. As in *how was it ok with you to have a affair?* I say this because for me HOW questions are about internal mechanisms that affected the decision. Whereas WHY seems more external.

I really dont know what to tell you other than I hear what you are saying. And being a BS is like living in hell.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.

Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.
Friedrich Nietzsche


Posts: 3483 | Registered: Sep 2007
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, February 18th (Tuesday)

yeah, I get what you are saying about how. I think at this point, simply telling him what I feel resentful about will help. We are this far out that I think we could talk about that rationally.

The consequences of not looking at oneself, well, they can be dire.


his Dday: 2/10
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4926 | Registered: Dec 2010
wert
Member
Member # 34478
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, February 18th (Tuesday)

This was very introspective for him and I told him this and how much I appreciated it

With your story in particular the above statement stuck out for me. He doesn't look inward much or at least doesn't express it. The fact that he did smells like progress.

Resentment keeps you warm and eventually burns you up. IMO I think both of you should start there. Letting go of that shit. Maybe a focus for IC?

take care...



Posts: 1428 | Registered: Jan 2012
ladies_first
Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 1:36 PM, February 18th (Tuesday)

After a fight on Saturday he took Sunday to write (without any prompt from me and he's not a writer) me four pages of his whys:

4 pages is a huge step forward for someone afraid of insight.

I did put my heart and soul into recovering as a BS, which included not hurting anyone else. I resent that he didnít do this.

What does this mean, specifically?
*You wish he'd done more IC? (do-able)
*You wish he'd never hurt you the second time? (impossible to unfuck the donkey)

I think at this point, simply telling him what I feel resentful about will help.

I know a dialogue has begun, and you want to lay it ALL out there, but I remind you of the following:

There's a section in 'Not Just Friends' about Fostering Positive Exchanges.
"In his extensive research, John Gottman found that satisfied couples were those who maintained a ratio of five positive moments for every one negative moment, even if the couple was conflict-habituated or conflict-avoidant." (p. 167)


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 1:53 PM, February 18th (Tuesday)

*You wish he'd done more IC? (do-able)
*You wish he'd never hurt you the second time? (impossible to unfuck the donkey)

both.
had he looked at healing after what I did or looked at the method he used to cope after his first affair the 2nd time wouldn't have happened. He didn't. Too painful to face I suppose.

It's probably a 20/1 exchange needed in our relationship. And I think we have that.

I want to have a relationship where I talk to him about my current struggle - resentment - and how it's holding me up... But I'll wait til MC in a week.


[This message edited by rachelc at 1:54 PM, February 18th (Tuesday)]


his Dday: 2/10
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4926 | Registered: Dec 2010
still-living
Member
Member # 30434
Default  Posted: 3:48 PM, February 18th (Tuesday)

In summary, he was experiencing pain, thought having an affair would help him, and felt justified. This is common, I say, and also equal to him having poor coping mechanisms to what life threw at him. His plan A and B didn''t help him in the end. I recommend that his plan C involves taking a deeper look at what is love, forgiveness, and how to process pain and learn to trust, -things that are more likely to help him. This act of looking into himself is a good start including understanding why his plan A and B didn''t work. Congrats to him on this hard work.


BH(me)47
WW 47 FOO Issues
DDay 11/09 Coworker
High School Sweethearts
Married 06/91
8 months TT
Sons 19 and 14
Recovery is constructing a pyramid of inference from which to see clearer.
The process involves using the reflexive loop.

Posts: 739 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Ches
blakesteele
Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 6:24 PM, February 18th (Tuesday)

My rub: I am traumatized from what he did yet I have no right to act out like this. I never mention any reasons for my affair other than my own poor coping mechanisms to whatever life threw at me. Because really, it doesnít matter. Iím not any better than him. But I did put my heart and soul into recovering as a BS, which included not hurting anyone else. I resent that he didnít do this.

A couple of thoughts generated in me from this single paragraph.

I have been following your journey closely....have always felt that your journey resonated with my journey (and many other BS) in many ways....but also very unique.

The A, RA thing is what is different.

In this paragraph you say you never stated reasons for your affair to your husband...because it didn't matter. I gently nudge you that it does matter.


It matters to your husband as he was hurt by the betrayal. No reason excuses adultery, but you and I both know details matter.

It should matter to you as the reasons can lead you to the underlying motives. Yes, it is most likely linked to FOO issues....but there is still value exploring the nuances of those motivations. Things like when you are most likely to engage FOO coping mechs, how strongly you engage them, and how they consciously and subconsciously affect and influence your marital relationship.

You also had, if memory serves me correctly, an abuse in your past in addition to an A. That is two separate issues warranting separate healing to take place. I think you may have blamed yourself a bit....again, if memory serves me correctly, alcohol was involved. I stop short of calling it rape....but I think it sounded pretty bad to me.

I just wonder if your husband is mirroring what he observed you doing while in your affair, at least initially....dismissing exploring his WHYs by thinking he already knew why.

You say you have no right to act out like this. That is a dicey statement. You have a right to your feelings....we all do. We also have a responsibility for any and all actions those feelings influence us to take. Remember, feelings are neither right nor wrong....they just are. Actions following those feelings can have a right or wrong, constructive or destructive value placed on them. Also remember that feelings are INDICATORS not DICTATORS.

You are in pain....traumatic level pain. You are going to have very strong, very real feelings. Sometimes those feelings are logically based on facts, sometimes they are illogical and based on false assumptions driven by anxiety. This is why it is important to sit with those feelings, try to peel as much of them away as you can to get to the underlying motivator for those feelings.

What I have learned is that many times the simple process of doing this opens up more choices than my initial reaction told me I had available to me. In some cases....no further action is actually even necessary.

Keep the faith rachelc....keep posting.

I see the struggles in your posts...I offer this post to you as gentle nudges to keep in touch with your feelings and explore areas you may have dismissed prematurely.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3669 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
sisoon
Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 1:42 PM, February 19th (Wednesday)

I think at this point, simply telling him what I feel resentful about will help.

I think this will help if you see the resentment as your problem, not your H's.

I think 'resentment' is a mish-mash of anger at someone else and dissatisfaction with how the 'resenter' is handling it. Owning the resentment is the first step in resolving it. Just don't stop at the first step.

*You wish he'd never hurt you the second time?

Healing requires you to give up this anger - this source of resentment, because you simply can't change the past. This is your problem to solve, not his.

*You wish he'd done more IC?

When I'm in good emotional shape, I experience anger as nothing more than a desire for something to be different. If I figure out what that is, I can improve my life.

My guess is that your H does something that bothers you, and you sense he does it because of underlying issues that can be addressed in IC.

If you figure out what you want him to change in himself, you can ask him to do it.

Example: My W has long resented me because, among other things, she thinks I want her just to feel what I feel when I feel it and because she's scared by a tone of voice that I apparently use.

The first is her problem - I actually expect her to feel what she feels when she feels it.

She can solve the 2nd problem, too, by training herself not to be scared when I use that tone. But it's also entirely reasonable to ask me not to use it.

She asked me to change. I believe her level of resentment over my tone of voice is way down, and part of that is because she ID'ed what she wanted to be different and asked me to change. That helped her even before I agreed to change.

Now, all she has to say is something like, 'I can't hear you when you use that tone of voice.' Then it's up to me - stop talking or change my tone.

In other words, by figuring out that she wanted me to change and by asking me to do it, she cut out some of her soul-crushing resentment, and I think we're both better off for her doing that, and so is our M.

I hope this is clear.

[This message edited by sisoon at 1:50 PM, February 19th (Wednesday)]


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10083 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 1:59 PM, February 19th (Wednesday)

Healing requires you to give up this anger - this source of resentment, because you simply can't change the past. This is your problem to solve, not his.

understood and it will be addressed. And I will talk to him about it as my problem.

yet, if you think about it, I have to give it up whether i stay or leave.

what does he do that bothers me? I wrote this earlier today: although he knows he hurt me and degraded himself by having affairs, he also sees it as an uncontrollable reaction to my action. That I cannot change but must accept as his truth. But it's hard as most waywards who have done the work wouldn't think this.


his Dday: 2/10
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4926 | Registered: Dec 2010
Topic Posts: 10