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Just Found Out
User Topic: Husband's emotional cheating with ex
Mapper
New Member
Member # 42520
Default  Posted: 7:16 AM, February 19th (Wednesday)

I don't know if this is the right forum for me as I haven't "just found out", but it seemed right.

Background on my situation. I have been with my husband for almost 10 years. We were together for 6 years before getting married. He is 46 and I am 42. About 20 years ago he asked a girlfriend to marry him. She turned him down..apparently she thought she could do better. Well they've remained in touch throughout all this time and I think they may have had a little back togetherness a few years before he met me, but I'm not exactly sure on those details. She lives about 40 minutes from where we do. Husband will bring up her name all the time for no reason like "I've had this jacket for over 20 years. I didn't really want this one but Jen thought it looked good" or "I never used to like this kind of food, but Jen introduced me to it". Things he says where there's no reason that he should have to add her name to the story. Even 3 years ago I accidently put this wool shirt of his in the washer and it shrank. The sleeves were already too short on it so it looked like it had been shrunk previously. He has a royal fit over it saying that it is a shirt that Jen's dad gave him and he's not upset because it had to do with her but because her dad thought enough of him to give it to him. He said Jen had shrunk it previous to that. He was so torn up over the shirt that I had to buy him an identical one for almost $100!

I snoop. He has no idea I snoop (or he would delete messages) but I do. I know his email password (he doesn't know I know it), I check our phone and text records online, he never logs out of Facebook on the laptop so I check that as well. I pretty much have all bases covered. He never emails her and the only time he ever calls her is when I'm gone for a long period or he is out without me (both of which are rare). I found messages on Facebook that were written 4 days before we got married. I didn't see them until after we got married but he had apparently ran into her when he was out for his bachelor party and she Facebooked him "Did you get my text" he says "no I don't have text enabled on my phone but do tell. It's the same old thing, can't get you out of my mind". Then she messaged "Great thanks for making me crazy. I was kind of hoping to see you again". Then it was sort of poo poo from her saying "I must have temporarily lost my mind. Go get married already. Do you need a ride to the airport?" He said no.

Within the past three years there's been a few messages on Facebook but he is always sending her little things that apparently only they would get on Facebook and is always liking this "I love Redheads" page and then forwarding things to her because she's a redhead. She never ever posts anything on his Facebook page and it's always through private messages. A year ago he went to visit a friend and I found out through a private message that he ran into her. Said it was nice to see her, but never mentioned to me that he ran into her even when I asked if he ran into anybody down there. There was a message on Facebook that he was going to ask her to dinner some night and a yes was expected. That never happened.

Well 2 weeks ago I met him down at a bar after he had a class. We left the bar at the same time to go home and it was snowing pretty good so roads were treacherous. I expected him to be home before me because he drives faster than I do. I got turned around and added an extra 10 minutes or so to my commute so when I got home and didn't see his car there I worried. I waited about 20 minutes and was just about to call him when he pulled in the driveway. In the back of my mind I was thinking 'I wonder if he drove by Jen's house", because I know she lives in the area we were in. Sure enough I check Facebook and he had sent a message to her of simply "hello" with no response. Check his phone and 3 minutes after he did that he had called her, apparently with no answer. He comes home and I asked why he was late and he said "Oh I was just driving around the neighborhood down there trying to sober up. I was going to go in and have a beer at this one bar I haven't been to in years but I drove by and nobody was there so I came home." So you were trying to sober up but you were going to stop and have a beer?? Yesterday was his birthday and all day I was just itching to get home and check his Facebook page on the laptop because I had bet anything that Jen had sent him a private birthday message. Sure enough, she had simply said happy birthday. Don't know why that couldn't have been posted on his page with everyone else saying happy birthday but it wasn't. Then I saw his response to that that said "I called you a couple of weeks ago. I was down in your area and wanted to see if you wanted to meet for a pint. I'll try again when I'm in the neighborhood". She responded with "I'd like that".

I am bursting at the seems to tell him I know all about his contacting her, but I can't. He would immediately accuse me of not trusting him (um yeah!) and then accuse me of spying on him and checking up on him when she's just a friend. Really? If she's just a friend then why don't you contact her when I'm with you? Why don't you try to see her when I'm with you? Why do you always happen to leave her out when mentioning what you were doing or what you did, even if you saw her by accident? He has always been so vehement about how his ex cheated on him and how awful it was and he would never do that. I don't know what to do. I know he will find a way to turn it all back on me and then I will question everything. If I ask why he never tells me about seeing her he'll go "We are just friends but I don't see any reason to tell you about it because it will just upset you but you have no reason to be upset. NOTHING is going on or ever would".


Posts: 24 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Washington
heforgot
New Member
Member # 40850
Default  Posted: 7:54 AM, February 19th (Wednesday)

It sounds to me like at least an EA. If my husband pulled any of that we'd have a problem.


Me: BW, 44
Him: WH, 47
3 kids
Married 19 years
DDay 11/1/09
Status: R and more in love than before!

Posts: 48 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: USA
blinders_off
Member
Member # 34109
Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, February 19th (Wednesday)

I'm hoping you get a variety of responses, because this is a tough one.

Both your husband and Jen are participating in a sort of subversive/thrilling "one who got away" scenario.

They are not friends. They are nostalgic exes.

I doubt she wants to be with him. But she loves knowing he still "can't get you out of my mind." And she makes sure of that by these tiny, private intrusions "happy birthday," "I'd like that." She steers clear of making romantic overtures because their dynamic is that *she* is in the "power position," *she* is "the one who got away," *she* is the one being pined for. She gives him just enough to stay in that role, which must also provide some kind of either thrill or security blanket for her, or else, like most exes of 20 years, there would either be no contact or actual adult old-friends interactions (such as a friendly birthday wish on the public wall; the private messages reinforce a "special" connection even when their content is "harmless.")

As for your husband, I have direct experience with someone who does this. I have been in both the "wife" and "Jen" positions (with this same person). Here is my take: Your husband uses his connection with Jen to escape the emotional vulnerability and possibly terror of full commitment. He does not see himself as an unfaithful type, and probably experiences absolutely no hypocrisy when he talks about his awful cheating ex.

"Jen," although an actual real person, is actually largely symbolic at this point. I doubt he wants to be with her, either. What he does want is the reassurance that there is this alternate life he could have had. He likes hinting that they could have a drink (which never seems to work out, right?) I doubt he has anything more than a hazy idea of what would then transpire, because, actually, for both of them, really spending time together might kill this mutual nostalgia thing. It is actually almost kept alive by how sporadic it is, and by the fear, on both of their sides, that it could end at any time. So they intermittently ping one another just to make sure the other person is still playing.

If they did get together, and this may have been the dynamic the few times they ran into each other for real, it would be all wistful eye contact and heavy sighs and a kiss on the cheek "take good care of yourself," and one of them would say, "I'll always wonder what if…" and then later, when they got home, one of them would FB PM something like "I must have temporarily lost my mind. Go be sweet to your wife."

The problem for you is that he is carrying a torch and she is blowing some oxygen on it whenever it flickers.

But his torch has very little to do with her as a real person at this point.

Which means, imo, is that, paradoxically, Jen is not the issue. Your husband's use of nostalgia to escape the present and the life he has actually chosen is a much deeper issue.

It is for that reason that, contrary to prevailing SI advice, I don't think that confronting, asking him to go NC, etc. will really address what's going on. Because it is *the absence and can't-have* that she represents that he is addicted to.

It is almost as if, in your case, if you picked up on the next time he, on the flimsiest of pretexts, evokes her name, you said, oh, right, Jen, doesn't she live near here? Let's all go out for drinks next week since she seems to be important to you and I'd like to get to know her. In other words, if you made her into a real, normal person and in all innocence (ha!) trampled all over her gauzy shrine in his mind
at least something would change. If you all got together, the long-lost-lover fantasy would be overwritten with a real experience of you as wife and her as old friend.

This would take immense restraint on your part, as, neither before or during this event would you "confront" or tip your hand, or even give the slightest hint that you know they are in secret contact.

There are several possible results: it could simply burst the bubble entirely. Or they might exchange more private messages in the aftermath that would give you a clearer sense of how invested each is in continuing. Or one or both of them might figure out you know the score, and that might spoil the game and end it.

But the character issue within your husband that wants to have a secret space from you (I always think of men who do this as casting their wives in the "mommy" role, and they are hiding candy from mommy), that romanticizes an escape hatch, is and will be an issue regardless of Jen.

I actually suggest IC (therapy) for you around how this makes you feel and what actions you can take. In a healthy marriage, with a healthy partner, you'd be able to say, "Listen, you mention Jen a lot. She clearly was very important to you. I'm wondering if you sometimes fantasize about what your life would have been like with her." And then that would open up a space for actual communication, and then once Jen-as-symbol has been sort of "outed" within the marriage bond, the mirage will fade.

But what I suspect is that the whole, much deeper problem here, is that you can't have such a conversation in your marriage, because he is not capable of it and values his secrets like a kid with a private fort in the backyard. That he will become irritated and belligerent and want you to stop trampling on his romantic fantasy.

In IC you might be able to talk about how you want to approach this and if you want to accept that part of who your husband is involves juvenile secrets and external ego strokes.

I know this was long, but I just want to validate that this is a real, and significant problem. My sense is that if you confronted him with your evidence and gave a the-marriage-or-your-ex ultimatum, if would backfire and he would feel like you were taking away his favorite toy, and then you would be the big bad mommy and he would use that to reach out to her. I could be wrong, but this is not harmless, he is using it to escape commitment, and it has got to stop, but since it is about *longing and not having* to begin with, what it means for it to stop is a deep internal maturity and boundaries on the part of your husband.


Posts: 358 | Registered: Dec 2011
joannie
Member
Member # 42486
Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, February 19th (Wednesday)

I am in a situation where 5 months down the line my husband is still in touch with the woman..he says they are friends now and he has no feelings, i cannot bear the fact they talk on the phone when he is at work, long calls, what do they talk about..us, them...it is making me ill and I cannot bring the subject up again, do you think this "need " will soon come to an end,she has hurt me and so has he, she nearly ended our marriage and i felt so bad i came close to ending it all. Feel better sometimes but them when i know they have spoken or she drives past here it all starts up again. 5 months on should'nt they have stopped ringing each other. We have been married 34 years..i want to be the one he calls and talks too


me BS 56yr
Him WS 55yr
Married 34 years 2 sons 4 grandchildren

Posts: 126 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: France
norabird
Member
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 10:12 AM, February 19th (Wednesday)

Hi Mapper. I think you are in the right forum here.

Your husband is engaging in behavior that is very harmful to the relationship and to you. You don't feel safe with him, or trusting--why else would you snoop in his private correspondence? You probably have a lot of anxiety and underlying worry about him; since he gets in touch with her when you aren't there, you probably don't go out with friends alone or take trips on your own that you might otherwise do, because you fear what he might do left to his own devices. Am I right? I'm only guessing based on my own experience being with someone who said he loved me but behaved in ways that were very destabilizing for me; I always had a little pit of fear in my stomach when I waited for him to come home.

It's no way to live. I don't know if he is in primarily an EA that he is clearly reliant on (for twenty years!) or if sometimes they have actually reconnected physically, but in some ways it doesn't matter. You do not have the relationship you need with him to feel secure.

Where you go with that knowledge is hard. But I want to validate your worrying. It really needs to be addressed. Maybe you could have him read the book 'Not Just Friends'? It is important that your husband learn to re-draw his boundaries to exclude his ex.

ETA: I think blindersoff's suggestion about suggesting you all meet up (and also the observation that she only represents a larger issue) is great. People can keep old GFs/BFs as friends IMO as long as they really ARE friends--just people you like seeing who you hang out with in normal, non-clandestine ways. Right now he's not behaving like she's a friend--he's behaving like she's a high he's allowed to be addicted to.

[This message edited by norabird at 10:18 AM, February 19th (Wednesday)]


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 3708 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
Mapper
New Member
Member # 42520
Default  Posted: 10:48 AM, February 19th (Wednesday)

Thank you for your lengthy responses.

I said to him once, after he had brought her name up numerous times in conversation, "Oh that good old Jen" very sarcastically. My stepdaughter was in the room at the time as well and after husband said "Oh you have nothing to worry about..it was a long time ago" and stepdaughter goes "Yeah he chose you over her so you should be happy". Really, who does that? Who consistently brings up an ex's name after being with someone else for 10 years!

The longest I was with someone before my husband was for 1 year about 5 years before I met my husband. We had a good connection and even went out on a few dates a couple years after we broke up, but nothing came of that. How would HE like it if I brought up Jason all the time and how we used to go here and how Jason did this one really cute thing for me one time? I am friends on Facebook with him, but I never post on his wall and I certainly never private message him. I do the occasional "Like" but that's it. I would love to have his profile up on screen sometime when husband walks in the room and see if he goes 'Who's that?" and I'll go "Oh that's the guy I told you I dated for a year before I met you" and see how he likes that!

I came very close to asking my husband after he mentioned Jen's name one time "So do you still have a thing for her" but I know he would immediately get defensive about the whole thing. And I would love to tell him about all the times I know he called her or texted her or met up with her. I would LOVE to see his face if I just blindsided him with that. But I can't and I won't. Maybe next time when he brings up her name, as you suggest, I should say "Maybe she could meet us at such and such a bar when we are down there next weekend. She lives down there right?" No way he would do that and probably no way I would ask that. She is single and has been single for as long as I've known and never been married. I bet if she was seeing someone he would stop the contact. Because then it's getting dangerous and she has other interests.

I do have extreme anxiety when I go away. I go visit family out of state for a week every year and I freak out the entire time I'm gone and check phone records to see if they've connected. Last year however I was gone the week his daughter was visiting so I knew he wouldn't do anything.

Do you have any suggestions as to what I can say to him the next time her name comes up, other than "Do you still have a thing for Jen" or asking if we could meet her at the bar (because that would just be a really weird request from me) without it sounding like I'm attacking him?

[This message edited by Mapper at 10:50 AM, February 19th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 24 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Washington
4everfaithful83
Member
Member # 41761
Default  Posted: 11:39 AM, February 19th (Wednesday)

Mapper - I feel terrible for what you are going through, but I think you really need to take action! Take what I'm about to say as only positive!

TIME TO PUT YOUR BIG GIRL PANTIES ON!

You need to confront him. This is no way to live your life. He's been having an inappropriate relationship with his EX for you whole relationship. Its unacceptable.

Forget beating around the bush - you need to be completely honest with him about all you know. If you aren't honest, he might only be motivated to "confess or admit" to what he thinks you may know.

If he and his EX were really "just friends", he wouldn't lie about it. There would be no reason to lie.

If their relationship hasn't been physical already, its definitely headed in that direction. If I was you, I'd confront them both about their inappropriate facebook messages and texting.

The ball really is in your court, and life is short.


Always know if the juice is worth the squeeze...

ME: 31
WBF: 27
Together 7 years
1 doggie
DDay: June 24, 2013
IN R...


Posts: 565 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Pennsylvania
Mapper
New Member
Member # 42520
Default  Posted: 11:53 AM, February 19th (Wednesday)

I can't though, I just don't have the guts or chutzpah or whatever you want to call it. I have NEVER ever been a confrontational person and have let many people walk over me in life. I just want everyone to like me and be happy with me. As I said, I know it's going to turn into "she's only a friend and just because I mention her once in a while doesn't mean anything. I really did love her (yes he did tell me that at one time!) but I love you more and I would never jeopardize that". He'll say he doesn't tell me about seeing her "by accident" because it will just upset me for no reason. Just like he doesn't tell me that he's having issues at work or that he's having money problems because "it will upset me for no reason which will make him upset". Yup there's a lot of things that he doesn't tell me until I finally wonder what is up and then he jumps down my throat for nagging him about them. Just doesn't see them as things I need to know about until he has the situation figured out because me being upset makes him upset so it once again turns into my fault.

Posts: 24 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Washington
4everfaithful83
Member
Member # 41761
Default  Posted: 12:03 PM, February 19th (Wednesday)

There's a big difference between not telling you about work stuff and not telling you about seeing/talking/texting his EXGF.

A strong relationship is built on trust and communication.

Maybe you guys need counseling to address why he can't share these things with you?

I understand that you don't like confrontation, but you can't just let him have an affair right in front of your eyes and do nothing about it.

You can't let him blame you either. Its not your fault he is withholding information from you, and lying to you as well. You asked him where he was that night you left the bar, and he LIED straight to your face. This is not a healthy relationship.

Maybe one problem is that you never confront him? He's so used to lying to you and getting away with it that he probably does it with ease...

I just feel bad for you! :(

You deserve so much more than you are getting from your H.


Always know if the juice is worth the squeeze...

ME: 31
WBF: 27
Together 7 years
1 doggie
DDay: June 24, 2013
IN R...


Posts: 565 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Pennsylvania
OnTilt
Member
Member # 34140
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, February 19th (Wednesday)

Mapper, a lot of similarities between your story and mine, particularly how your H would respond to you confronting him. Mine has done something similar with a number of exes, some on a much smaller scale ( as they blow him off ) and some on a larger scale as I do believe there were at least a couple of face-to-face's.

For the most part this behavior stopped after I told him he could have his 'oh-so-important' friendships, but not while married to me. Next day he deleted his FB and as far as I can tell dropped contact with his female friends.

However, I think blinders_off REALLY hit the nail on the head. You should re-read that post.

t/j
Blinders_off, you just described my H to a T. In fact, almost every piece of the puzzle just clicked into place! I don't even know whether to refer to him as wh or H anymore after reading your post.

Doesn't necessarily make the sitch better, maybe makes it worse. He definitely thrives on 'secrets' as a way to connect. Now makes sense why I never discovered anything that was actually inappropriate, yet it was kept a secret!

Still a trust of betrayal regardless, but now adds to it a 'creepiness' that's kind of making my skin crawl! The whole hiding candy from mommy thingy, so spot on! And so creepy!!!! And probably not fixable in regards to my marriage.
But I am so glad I read your post!

End t/j

Mappers, I wish I had some advice for you, but I'm in the same predicament. I have confronted however, and for the most part got the responses u expect to get from your H. Well, until I told him he could be friends with whoever he wanted but not with me by his side. However, since he is a secret keeper, how would I know if he is doing otherwise. Either way it has pretty much killed my marriage, but again I think you should read Blinder_off post over and over. I think it just may describes your situation perfectly.

ETA: Please excuse the numerous typos and grammatical errors as I typed on my phone

[This message edited by OnTilt at 1:06 PM, February 19th (Wednesday)]


BS(Me), WH(Him) in our 50's
Status: I'm giving up on him

Posts: 377 | Registered: Dec 2011
Mapper
New Member
Member # 42520
Default  Posted: 11:39 AM, March 4th (Tuesday)

We were in the same predicament this past weekend. My husband had a class and I met him down at the same bar when he was done. We left to go home around 7:30 and I was wondering how things would go this time--if I would beat him home and he'd give me some speech as to why he was 30 minutes later than me (because he stopped by Jen's house!) or if we'd get home at the same time. Well he surprised me this time and he beat me home by a few minutes. However when we were at the bar shooting darts he was getting all lovey on me and saying what a great relationship we had. I go "Yeah I'AM pretty awesome aren't I? I don't cheat on you or anything.' He immediately gets questionable. He's like "Whoa, where'd that come from? Now you are making me think you ARE cheating on me!" I didn't clarify that comment with anything but I should have said that "You got so damn upset that I went for drinks and apps with my coworkers one night and got home at 9:30 that you made it seem like I was messing around." OR I should have said "Well you seem to be going behind my back and trying to contact Jen that I was wondering if YOU were cheating on me!"

Posts: 24 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Washington
norabird
Member
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 11:51 AM, March 4th (Tuesday)

(((Mapper)))

Can you guys get into a MC office? Say to him: "I feel vulnerable in this M because of your old flame. I'd like to talk about how we can solve this issue so I feel safe in the relationship and can trust you. Let's schedule an appointment with a couples counselor to work through this."

Making passive aggressive comments isn't going to resolve anything, you have to be direct. Open communication both ways is needed.


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 3708 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
soloney
Member
Member # 42621
Default  Posted: 12:38 PM, March 4th (Tuesday)

So sorry that you are here. I think she should confront him with the facts. If he accuses you of not trusting him that is him being defensive. There should be no secrets and lies in a marriage.

My H had an EA and PA with his ex, who is also called "Jen." Ugh I hate that name...


Posts: 80 | Registered: Feb 2014
BtraydWife
Member
Member # 42581
Default  Posted: 1:17 PM, March 4th (Tuesday)

You are going to continue with the (understandable) resentment for him until you are able to be honest with him about all this.

Is it possible for you to get into IC? There are several good codependency books out there.

I think you need to learn to love and respect yourself enough to demand better treatment from your husband. He's not going to figure this out on his own, so if you can't ask for it directly, I'm afraid you'll probably never get it.

The snarky hints won't ever work with him and will just end up frustrating you more. It will also cause more problems between you two (as you've seen). If you want him to be honest with you, you have to be honest with him as well.

[This message edited by BtraydWife at 1:21 PM, March 4th (Tuesday)]


Me-BW
Him-WH
DD-March 2010
TT for 6 months

Delay is the deadliest form of denial. - C. Northcote Parkinson


Posts: 700 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
Mapper
New Member
Member # 42520
Default  Posted: 2:14 PM, March 5th (Wednesday)

This has nothing to do with Jen, BUT H is known for taking days and weeks off at a time without pay. He's in a union so he has to do a lot to get fired and he has literally taken a month off of work without pay and gone back and not gotten fired. He has been out since Mon Feb 24. Claimed he had a terrible cold, and maybe he did for two days, but he had to take ALL last week off for it. He didn't go in Mon or Tues of this week. Today he gets up and dressed and warms up the car and I'm still not convinced that he's going in because it has happened before where he doesn't go in even after all that, however he does leave. I get up right after and do other things. About 6:30 I get ready to go and right before I leave I decide to check his bank account and our phone records. Well wouldn't you know that at 4:28 AM, about 15 minutes after he left, he called into the number he always calls into if he isn't going in. I get pissed Then I check the bank account and I see a transaction at a coffee shop about 30 minutes south of where he is supposed to be. I am LIVID!!!!!!! I text him that I saw his transaction at this place and is he really there. I am so damn angry I can't go into work. He shows up at home about 20 minutes later (you know when he thought I'd be gone to work myself) and he acts like he just saw the text. He proceeds to tell me he went into work but NO ONE (a company of 10,000 people!) was there and they had no work for him and told him to go home! Really??!! You've been out 1 1/2 weeks and you walk into work and they tell you they have no work and to go home? They provide work for you in other areas if they don't have anything. He then proceeds to tell me that he went and got coffee at this one place and then had breakfast at another place 30 minutes south of where he was supposed to be! Really? Rather than come home you went WAY out of your way to go have coffee? And amazingly came home about 15 minutes after you thought I'd be gone? Then if I was gone I'd think that you went to work and all would be right?

I am so upset that I tell him I'm not going to work and go back to bed. 5 minutes later he comes in and says he just got a text from his partner saying that he saw him come in and leave and how there's no work. Gee how convenient! Then he starts going on and on about how many texts he has and how he should delete them. Then apparently he was looking at my phone (my non-smart phone) and starts saying "Oh do you delete your texts because I have so many texts". Then starts going on about how he plugged my phone in to recharge. Gee why because it was charging all night! Then says how it's odd how I have all these dating sights on my phone. Really? I didn't put them there as I never do anything but call or text since none of that other stuff is paid for on my phone. So I'm guessing since I called him out on looking at his bank account now he's going to try and call me out on going to
dating sites.

THEN we are sitting around while he is watching this video game chat and the guy mentions his wife and he goes "Yeah wives!. You can't get away with anything". Gee were you TRYING to get away with something?? Then he says that he was thinking of stopping by his buddies place while he was in the area where he got this coffee. Really? Your buddy is retired and doesn't get out of bed until 10AM but you were going to stop by and see him at 7AM?

None of what he told me makes any sense and he is trying really hard to put the point across about everything which just screams "I'm trying to hide stuff from you".


Posts: 24 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Washington
BtraydWife
Member
Member # 42581
Default  Posted: 4:13 PM, March 5th (Wednesday)

Stop the games!!

He is asking you to call him out on it and you are pissed but yet you said nothing!

None of this stops until you speak up. Be direct. Tell the truth.


Me-BW
Him-WH
DD-March 2010
TT for 6 months

Delay is the deadliest form of denial. - C. Northcote Parkinson


Posts: 700 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
Mapper
New Member
Member # 42520
Default  Posted: 7:08 AM, March 19th (Wednesday)

I am so tired of finding these Facebook posts H posts to Jen! She doesn't post much about her or photos of her on her page, it's usually videos, news stories and these 1940s pin up girls. I'm not sure what her obsession is with them but they are either modern-day women made up to look like these pin up girls, Marilyn Monroe, or drawings of them. She usually posts up one for every holiday and of course they are scantily clad and very buxom.

Well I did my weekly checking of H's Facebook page on the laptop when he wasn't around and I see after a few weeks she finally posted something and it was actually a picture of her...well, it was her from about mid-thigh down. It was a picture taken by her sitting in a lounge chair and it was captioned "This is how a redhead sunbathes" and it showed her with leggings and her shoes on. Before I even got down to the comments I said to myself "I bet you anything H made some comment on it". Sure enough, not only did he comment on it, but he was the ONLY one who commented on it. He goes "LOL is that you?" She goes "Yup it sure is" he goes "I would have recognized those witchy shoes anywhere" she goes "You should see me with my broom". And of course he also "liked" both her comments to him as well! It's just these constant "likes" and little comments to her and of course the private messages with him saying he is going to ask her out for dinner and how he gave her a call when he was in the neighborhood to see if she wanted to have a drink that infuriate me! Like they have this little inside thing between them which of course he would see as nothing but friendship.

Would these little comments bother you?


Posts: 24 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Washington
BtraydWife
Member
Member # 42581
Default  Posted: 8:24 AM, March 19th (Wednesday)

Non of this stops until you confront him.

You say you are tired of it but not enough to do anything about it. Why would you expect things to magically change on their own?

It will all continue (and has the potential to escalate into something more) until you speak up.


Me-BW
Him-WH
DD-March 2010
TT for 6 months

Delay is the deadliest form of denial. - C. Northcote Parkinson


Posts: 700 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
dancinginthedark
New Member
Member # 32371
Default  Posted: 9:39 AM, March 19th (Wednesday)

Hi Mapper, My dday was almost 5 years ago now. On dday, not only did I find out about the affair, but I found out that he had been secretly talking to his ex from high school who rejected him for years. It was so similar to your situation except that she lived far away and was married (for the third time). When he told me he talked to her, it was like a confession so although it was not an affair, my radar was alerted. As a condition of R, he had to agree not to talk to her. Our MC was very supportive when my husband tried to say she was just a friend. She said that I was not asking my husband not to talk to ANY woman. I asked him not to talk to THIS woman and that I had good instincts. A couple months later, I talked to the OW from the affair. She told me that there was a woman who encouraging my H to have affairs and to leave me. I knew just who she meant. This woman had no intention of getting together with my H. In fact, I found evidence later that he tried and she didn't go for it. However, she wanted the thrill of having a great deal of power over my H and she believed more than I had. It took awhile, but he finally wrote her an NC letter. She was more difficult than the OW. She kept fishing for years.

The other thing to consider is what someone else has so eloquently said. Though he is likely not ever going to have a PA with this woman, he is engaging in thinking and behaviour that leads to affairs. In my case, something allowed my husband to have this secret relationship. That same mindset allowed him to have three more affairs. I think it's important for you to address this mindset now before it becomes something more.

All the best.


Posts: 34 | Registered: Jun 2011
Neverwudaguessed
Member
Member # 41884
Default  Posted: 10:05 AM, March 19th (Wednesday)

I have just been told 6 months ago that my husband had an affair with his ex. PLEASE, PLEASE deal with this BEFORE the damage is done. My husband reports that he does not love her, in fact he know that he did not love her and would not be leaving me for her, he loved the attention that she gave him. She never went away; he knew she would automatically make him feel good. This was about what was lacking in him, not about her, but it was access and opportunity which made it happen. He was not a drinker or a social kind of a guy. He never would have cheated without this constant in his life. Of course we would have continued in a marriage that kept us from being truly connected, but there would not have been cheating; that I am sure of.
Even if you need to put it on paper because it is too hard fro you to confront him face to face, you can tell him from the point of view of how you feel, not with an accusatory tone. You can tell him how important he is to you and how troubled you are about this connection which he needs to keep secret (I found out that this ex had called my husband when she was having a baby, and he never told me; he said he didn't want to upset me, but now we all low better why he didn't say anything.) The fact that he is keeping this all secret means that your marriage is DEFINATELY in trouble. Please believe me on this!!!! BUT it is NOT unsalvageable at this point; you can work through this. Even if you need to use my post or my profile to get through to him. PLEASE do what you can to fight for this marriage before there is no turning back…...


BW: 44 Me
WH:48
DDay1 9-9-13 (18th Wedding Anniversary) 6 wk EA, 1 wk PA
DDay2: 10-25-13 EA/PA with same OW 12 1/2 years ago for 3 months
OW: XGF Predator who never stopped pursuing WH
DS 13
DD 11

Posts: 407 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York
norabird
Member
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 10:18 AM, March 19th (Wednesday)

It's very hard to try and impress the importance of boundaries on someone who doesn't understand them (i.e. your H). You know it's wrong, he denies/makes you feel crazy...so, you really have to be willing to have consequences for crossing the boundary of contacting her. You have to decide what those consequences will be and enforce them.

I never managed to do this with my ex (it wasn't an old friend in his case, but a pattern of going to bars alone, flirting and ignoring me). Before long he was obliterating boundaries and obliterating me emotionally with lies and gaslighting.

I think your H really chooses not to see that this is wrong, but that doesn't make it right. Unfortunately his attitude leaves you to be the enforcer which no one ever wants in a partnership--you or him. But it's much better to enforce the boundaries to protect yourself than to let this continue.

You just have to really think about what the line in the sand for you is and what your decision will be if your H won't respect it. It's not easy. There's a thread in general right now about the importance of this--the title is something about reunions and cray cray! ((((Mapper))))


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 3708 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
Neverwudaguessed
Member
Member # 41884
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, March 19th (Wednesday)

No, he does NOT choose to see this as something that is not wrong. By keeping secret his interactions and communications with her, he KNOWS this is wrong. Anything that needs to be hidden is clearly wrong otherwise it would be out in the open. It is not too late to try to fix this.
Listen; gently, I do not feel that this is about enforcing boundaries. I feel that this is about exploring and facing what it is in your husband or about the state of your marriage that is making him crave this "fantasy" that he has created in his head about how things will be when he hangs out with this ex. He may even believe that he can keep it in control. But this is something that can be addressed together now, before things happen that cannot be taken back. Please find a way to let him know how scared and hurt you are about what is happening here. Let him know how important he is to you and how much you want to create a solid marriage that will last and satisfy both of your needs.

[This message edited by Neverwudaguessed at 5:41 PM, March 19th (Wednesday)]


BW: 44 Me
WH:48
DDay1 9-9-13 (18th Wedding Anniversary) 6 wk EA, 1 wk PA
DDay2: 10-25-13 EA/PA with same OW 12 1/2 years ago for 3 months
OW: XGF Predator who never stopped pursuing WH
DS 13
DD 11

Posts: 407 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York
twitching
Member
Member # 42399
Default  Posted: 9:29 PM, March 19th (Wednesday)

Trust your gut. I wish I had.


"My heart was broken and my head was just barely inhabitable. " - Anne Lamont

Posts: 128 | Registered: Feb 2014
Neverwudaguessed
Member
Member # 41884
Default  Posted: 8:12 AM, March 20th (Thursday)

Just checking in to see how you are doing today. I hope you are feeling better about how things, and we are here no matter how things are going and regardless of what you choose to do or not do.


BW: 44 Me
WH:48
DDay1 9-9-13 (18th Wedding Anniversary) 6 wk EA, 1 wk PA
DDay2: 10-25-13 EA/PA with same OW 12 1/2 years ago for 3 months
OW: XGF Predator who never stopped pursuing WH
DS 13
DD 11

Posts: 407 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York
NeverAgain2013
Member
Member # 38121
Default  Posted: 8:53 AM, March 20th (Thursday)

So basically, your irresponsible husband has been mooning over Jen - and actively sneaking around all the time trying to connect with her - for the last 20 years.

Hopefully, you'll become strong enough to finally deal with it. I understand your fear of rocking the boat or changing the status quo once you confront him, but you'll eventually get to a point where you'll no longer accept this horrific level of disrespect.

You'll get there eventually. I'm wishing you much strength.


Be careful - that 'knight in shining armor' may very well be nothing more than an assclown wrapped in tin foil.
ME: 50+ years old and cute as a button :-)
Ex-WBF: Just a lying, cheating, gravy-sucking pig - and I left him in 2012.

Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: USA
Mapper
New Member
Member # 42520
Default  Posted: 10:05 AM, March 20th (Thursday)

Yeah pretty much. I mean I have been checking his email since I first glimpsed him type his password in back in 2005! At that time we were living 1000 miles from each other and I was visiting at the time. Up until then I trusted him and just started peeking at his email once in a while when I was home. I came across an email from Jen asking him to go to a party with her. He replied that he would. I was so upset I called about something else and asked what he was doing that night. He told me he was going out with his buddy Todd! I didn't say anything then just like I don't say anything now. He could sense that something was wrong with me because he told me I was acting weird. Another time I saw another exchange of emails with another girl. He went down one Saturday night, about an hour from him, to meet this girl for dinner and take her for a ride on his motorcycle. This is AFTER we were engaged! Turns out I saw from emails that he spent the night at her house with her in HER BED! Apparently nothing happened because her email to him the next day was "I woke up in the middle of the night touching your butt and really wanted to start something but didn't". He sent back an email "Maybe next time you can come visit me!" He totally lied to me about that night too. Email correspondence stopped shortly after that as did the phone calls (which I was able to see on his phone account. Yet I still married the guy!

Posts: 24 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Washington
hummingbird8
Member
Member # 25086
Default  Posted: 10:11 AM, March 20th (Thursday)

You are rugsweeping and he will continue doing this until you stand up for yourself. Nine times out of ten the marriages where the WS comes out of the fog is because the BS makes him.

Posts: 452 | Registered: Aug 2009
BtraydWife
Member
Member # 42581
Default  Posted: 10:15 AM, March 20th (Thursday)

You are going to end up with what you settle for.

I don't get the hesitation to upset the staus quo. You WANT things to change. You aren't happy with how things are. Why would you also be undermining your happiness by protecting his bad behavior? It's almost masochistic on your part. You HAVE to upset the staus quo in order for things to get better. Just by definition.

[This message edited by BtraydWife at 10:17 AM, March 20th (Thursday)]


Me-BW
Him-WH
DD-March 2010
TT for 6 months

Delay is the deadliest form of denial. - C. Northcote Parkinson


Posts: 700 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
Mapper
New Member
Member # 42520
Default  Posted: 10:59 AM, March 20th (Thursday)

Because I don't know how to be angry and I hate being angry. I always always feel like I need to apologize 30 minutes after because somehow I'm in the wrong. I don't want to live with no talking and ignoring each other. Yes, I would rather sweep it under the rug, get extremely angry inside and try and let it go. I have never been able to be angry at anyone my entire life and if I feel like they are just the tiniest bit upset about something I always think it's because of something I did and I have to make it better. I can't eat or sleep or work if I know that I have to go home to someone who is going to be made at me.

Posts: 24 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Washington
OutoftheDeep
Member
Member # 42601
Default  Posted: 11:07 AM, March 20th (Thursday)

Mapper, what your husband is doing is NOT OKAY.

Very simple: it's NOT OKAY.

You have been in a love triangle with Jen for 20 years. I think you simply don't know anything else, and have forgotten/never-known what a real loyal spouse is supposed to act like.

I would flip, cry, be heartbroken, leave, pack his crap into bags and throw them in the yard, become hysterical...maybe one or all of those things, but these would be my feelings, if I discovered my husband had been carrying on like this throughout our ENTIRE marriage. The scenario I'm giving is an example of someone discovering something like this suddenly. Which brings me to my point about your perspective: you've had a marriage like this for 20 years -- it's your normal. And you have a hard time seeing it's not supposed to be your normal.

I think you are also used to being in detective mode so much that it has become "you". (It's a pit I've sunk into myself). You are each in your roles: he is the little bad boy hiding his candy and you are the Private Detective. You are not only used to his behavior, you are used to your role/habit of being a detective. It's like a game of "are you smart enough to catch him today?" When you do catch him, you have the pain of knowing what he's up to, but you also feel validated and like you have bested them. That's another problem, there should be no "them" (your husband + Jen). It is you against "them".


I don't know if he's had sex with her or not or if he will or he won't. But they are sure in a positon to if they wanted. (there's that 'they' word again).

You need to claim your man again, Mapper. Stand up for yourself.


Me - maybe BW
He - maybe WH
both 40ish

My mother was always the OW
ExWH in first marriage had LTA. DDAY was November 2003.
Current marriage:
2/2013 Busted him at strip club.
then...
Porous boundaries w/ ho-worker


Posts: 269 | Registered: Feb 2014
BtraydWife
Member
Member # 42581
Default  Posted: 3:02 PM, March 20th (Thursday)

But you are angry and you have every right to be angry. Angry is an appropriate emotion in this situation.

Anger comes from pain. Whenever the idea that you are angry upsets you, remember it's a sign that you are in pain in some way. Do you feel like other people have a right to hurt you? I bet you don't. Anger comes from pain. Emotional pain is no more acceptable than physical pain.

Pretending like you aren't angry doesn't work. It spills out and over into other areas of your life. It lowers your life expectancy because of stress. You don't feel secure in your marriage.

Nobody wants to be in a situation that makes them angry but you won't get out of it any other way than going through it.

There is no other escape. Pushing it down inside and trying to deny it does not make it go away. You know this. You've been living like this for a while and your plan to rugsweep isn't working for you.

That's because you are smarter than you are giving yourself credit for. You won't be able to convince yourself everything is fine because you KNOW it's not.

You aren't happy. You are angry. And that's ok because your husband is behaving in an inappropriate manner, disrespecting you, and lying to you.

Do you have access to IC? It would really help you. Your need to people please at the cost of your own integrity is a sign of low self esteem. Please call and make an appointment to talk to someone.

[This message edited by BtraydWife at 3:06 PM, March 20th (Thursday)]


Me-BW
Him-WH
DD-March 2010
TT for 6 months

Delay is the deadliest form of denial. - C. Northcote Parkinson


Posts: 700 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
Mapper
New Member
Member # 42520
Default  Posted: 8:08 AM, April 3rd (Thursday)

Yesterday was pay day for H. He GAVE me his password and login to his work intranet a few years ago so I could go in and look around the site because they have a lot of deals you can get there for employees and spouses. His paycheck shows up on there as well. Last night I say to H "So are you still getting that garnishment of your paycheck from that one ticket you never paid?" He told me a few months ago they were going to start taking out money from his check because he was too irresponsible to pay the ticket years ago. I of course already knew they were because I looked at the check but wanted to hear it from him. He immediately goes "Wow so you have looked at my bank account and now you are looking at my paychecks? Nothing gets past you does it?" I said "I try not to let it."

If he is that upset that I saw his bank acct. and paycheck can you only imagine what his reaction would be if he knew I looked at his email, texts, phone calls and Facebook on a daily basis?! He would be livid! If he knew that I knew about all his chats with Jen on Facebook and that he has contacted her to meet for drinks or stopped by her place unannounced when I wasn't with him and all the things that happened that I knew about with a couple of other women years ago he would be so angry. Either angry or extremely ashamed, but I am sure he would place all the blame on me for snooping behind his back and deflect the whole situation onto me rather than him.


Posts: 24 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Washington
Topic Posts: 32