SurvivingInfidelity.com Forums
Reconciliation
User Topic: Trust a choice?
blakesteele
Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 2:36 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

Heard this proposed recently....can't grasp this yet. Is their a component of trust that is strictly a choice....a leaping off place?

Or is it, as I once believed, something that is earned over time?

Any opinions?

Looking to answer this with as much separation from the pain of adultery as you can. I very much want to challenge my pre-concieved ideas on trust.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4041 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
karmahappens
Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 2:49 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

Yes, I think it is most definitely a choice. A choice made over time, by watching, confirming and seeing your situation with open eyes.

Trust isn't something concrete, so how are you able to completely trust someone without that leap of faith?

For me, I took a lot longer than necessary to trust my H. I would let myself go to that crazy place where I was sure there would be something to find. I would hunt, look and probe whatever I could. My "normal brain" knew I wouldn't find anything, but I allowed myself to let crazy win far too many times.

Finally I had to get to a point where I talked myself out of not trusting. The evidence to trust was there, but I had to trust myself that I was looking at my world honestly. The only thing holding me back was fear.

I knew that ultimately I would be ok and I had to be vunlerable again. I had to give my heart back and know my husband could be trusted.

I think it's as much about learning to trust yourself as much as you have to trust your spouse.


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3850 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
foundoutlater
Member
Member # 32900
Default  Posted: 3:20 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

IMO trust is a choice you make based on your perception of the evidence. The evidence is what people refer to as earning it. A very trusting person’s perception sees the good evidence and trust is earned easily.

Is their a component of trust that is strictly a choice....a leaping off place?
Or is it, as I once believed, something that is earned over time?

I think both – at some point it is a leap of faith after your perception is that it has been earned. Before the betrayal I think it was easier to take that leap because I did not realize it was a leap of faith. It always was and always will be a leap of faith to trust IMO.


Your beliefs don’t make you a better person, your behavior does.

Posts: 1137 | Registered: Jul 2011
AML04
Member
Member # 39682
Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

Before the A I trusted blindly, no more. I will have to choose to trust him or not but it will only be after a lot of consistent action by him.


Me-BS Him-WH DS 5/12
Met 2000, Married 2004
DDay 5/26/13, TT through 8/13
2.5 yr EA w/co-worker, PA 12/12 to 4/13
Hopeful for R

Posts: 875 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: MA
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 3:33 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

it was not a choice by me - it was something very tangible. I had to see 10,000 instances of him making the right choice and THEN I trusted.
Three things happened in succession about 6 weeks ago where I was thinking something was going on. I was proved wrong EVERY time and they were times when I would have found out.

And him showing his heart to me - that is the biggest way he shows me where he's at. I guess after 27 years I can tell when he's doing that.

Our Mc said to trust when you don't feel like trusting and forgive when you don't feel like forgiving. It doesn't work like that for me. maybe for some.


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5345 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
CantLoseHope
Member
Member # 42356
Default  Posted: 3:36 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

When they say trust is a choice, IMO I think thats like how you trust someone you meet..... If you think about it did your WS have to "earn" your trust in the beginning are did you just trust them?
I think the "earning" trust part comes from betrayal... when someone betrays your trust they have to earn it back, and eventually you have to make the decision to trust them again or not.....


"A tree falls the way it leans.....be careful which way you lean"


Posts: 172 | Registered: Feb 2014
bionicgal
Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 3:43 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

My H earned my trust over 7 years and then I married him. (I am slow!)7 years later we had a kid, and 10 years later he cheated. That was a lot of years of trust before he let me down.

I don't know what it will take this time.


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is a personal crisis, not a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 2081 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
blakesteele
Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 3:44 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

Great replies!!!!

Tired today I guess.....much more simple than I made it out to be.....was overthinking it....thanks for doing my work for me ya'll!

Peace.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 3:47 PM, February 20th (Thursday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4041 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
TICKED OFF
Member
Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 3:57 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

Hum…..good question. In my case h was such a wonderful, considerate, caring man (or appeared to be) while we were dating that of course I thought I could trust him under any circumstance married or not. I found out the hard way about trusting someone.


Once h was caught with our neighbor/friend I came to realize that trust should never just be part of the bargain in any relationship. Trust needs to be earned over time. In my situation ten years has now passed since h a. Everything has been done as the book states, but unfortunately I have yet to choose the path of trusting him again.


Posts: 2465 | Registered: Sep 2005
SadInNC
Member
Member # 42170
Default  Posted: 3:58 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

I didn't even read the other responses yet because I didn't want anything to change my gut reaction to your question.

I am a newbie to DDay, so take this for what it is. Pre DDay, I pretty much trusted everyone unless there was a reason right off the bat, not to. For loved ones, my radar was OFF and I blindly trusted.

After DDay, I am much more cynical and paranoid. This really bothers me. At the moment, we have a homeless girl staying with us (long story) who is in high school and goes to school with my DD. I don't trust her and I HATE feeling like that. It's fallout from the A. I hope I can get back to a place where I trust people again...?

My WH killed my innocence in that regard. To answer your question, I don't think it's a choice or earned over time. For me, trust was an involuntary thing. Maybe now, trust has to be how you have defined it. Maybe it will never be involuntary for me again. I have no answers.


BS/Me WH/Him

"Your value doesn't decrease based on someone's inability to see your worth." -Unknown Wise Person


Posts: 345 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: North Carolina, United States
MylarPineapples
Member
Member # 39570
Default  Posted: 3:58 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

Maybe I overthink it too, but this concept is something I struggle with too.


Me: BS, Him: WH, 3 kids
8/08: EA with former neighbor
1/13: EA/Sexting with Coworker #1
6/13: Sexting with Coworker #2

Posts: 116 | Registered: Jun 2013
crazyblindsided
Member
Member # 35215
Default  Posted: 4:07 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

Yes I do believe it is a choice and right now I can't say that I do trust fWH 100% or for that matter ever again. There will always be a part of me that remembers how he blatantly lied through his teeth.


BS/FWS (me):40 Madhatter
WS/BS:42 Serial Cheater
Together 18 years, Married 13
DD(10) DS(7)
DDay(s) 5/08, 5/09, 3/30/12
Final Dday 7/11/14 Affair never ended

Posts: 2266 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: California
Simple
Member
Member # 18814
Default  Posted: 4:18 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

I'm not quite sure you can consider it a choice completely.

As adults, that's something we can determine ourselves, Trust can become more like Faith and the 2 should probably be considered differently though they are a lot alike.

My thoughts when you said trust as a choice, went to my daughter as a baby. My husband ended up very sick and the doctor says for him to go to the hospital or for the baby for her safety to go to grandma. Due to costs, convenience, etc. My husband stayed home and my baby of 3 months old went to grandma.

Lo and behold, my quiet, accommodating baby, started being a prick and a screamer and would not have ANYONE hold her, feed her, etc. It took grandma and the rest of the family who is taking care of her 2-3 DAYS before she'd finally started accepting and trusting them. Even then, she was suspicious. She was finally mollified when she saw me and my husband walk through the door and started kicking her arms and legs and her eyes lit up.

My in-law (grandma) finally told me all that happened and said that she had to earn my baby daughter's trust because the baby KNEW that it wasn't her parents who were taking care of her...

Babies are instinctual beings. They aren't necessarily have the capacity for choices.
Food for thought.

[This message edited by Simple at 4:19 PM, February 20th (Thursday)]


Love is a choice.

True love is harder to come by than soul mates. True love requires work.

Ignorance can be cured with knowledge. There is no cure for being an idiot.


Posts: 927 | Registered: Mar 2008
SoVerySadNow
Member
Member # 36711
Default  Posted: 4:24 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

WH and I have had this discussion a lot lately.
Sorry, but it's all mixed in with betrayal for me.

WH keeps telling me it's a choice, as are many things I'm struggling with. I agree, and I take the issue of trust back to a choice- but to the choice he made. Then we go 'round again.
Choosing to protect one's heart and health with vigilance and verification (trust yet verify) may be a choice, but in my case a necessary one.
I also choose not to ram my car into a wall or put my hand on a hot stove again. Easy.

Cantlosehope makes some good points, though. I am likely to give a stranger the benefit of the doubt, but someone who has established themselves as a betrayer needs to work long and hard to gain my trust again- if ever.

[This message edited by SoVerySadNow at 5:07 PM, February 20th (Thursday)]


Me:BW
Him:WH
D-day(s),after years of TT and Gaslighting was Labor Day Weekend 2012, continuing for a week after. *Dammit! More TT 3/9/13
Really trending toward D- planning about it is my "happy place" now.

Posts: 1292 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Sunny Florida
Arnold01
Member
Member # 39751
Default  Posted: 4:24 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

One more thought to add....

For me, the choice to trust was as much about myself as it was about my husband. Yes, he had to show me through actions that he was worthy of trust, but I probably made the choice (or leap of faith) earlier that some others did.

My choice to trust was largely a choice to stay true to myself. I've always been a trusting person with a big heart, and I felt that if I changed as a result of the A, then I would be sacrificing one of the best parts of myself. I think I'm worth being authentic and true to my own values, so choosing to trust (even though I knew I was taking the risk of being hurt again) was as much about retaining my own sense of self as it was about him.

Hope you find the insights you're looking for.


D-Day: June 2013 discovered two-month EA/PA
NC established: August 2013
Reconciling

Posts: 121 | Registered: Jul 2013
Truly
Member
Member # 40715
Default  Posted: 4:41 PM, February 20th (Thursday)


I realise now that I chose not to trust anyone anymore, 4 years ago.

Perhaps I should re-think that; trust based on actions seen...
Distrusting the whole world doesn't come naturally to me I have always been gregarious and open, sadly not anymore and I kinda miss myself


There are dark shadows on the earth, but its lights are stronger in the contrast.
Charles Dickens


Posts: 257 | Registered: Sep 2013
deena04
Member
Member # 41741
Default  Posted: 4:43 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

Trust is not a choice for me that I have noticed. I either do or don't. It's more like a gut reaction for me. I do not trust my spouse now, but did completely from the get-go with him until he broke it.


Me BS mid-late 30s
Him WS knocking on 40 (lovemywife4ever)
blended family with lots of kiddos
together 5 years, married 8/13
D day 12/1/13
WH ONS had been 4/12
Getting ME back and moving to HAPPY - whatever that means
I want...I have no idea

Posts: 1137 | Registered: Dec 2013
sisoon
Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 4:59 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

Always a choice. Maybe not a conscious one, though.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10440 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
TICKED OFF
Member
Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 5:13 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

If trusting is a choice as in what "SoVerySad's" h believes…..then isn't being untrustwothy also a choice that is made?" If this is the case then this alone would confirm that affairs are not just something that happened or took place (as so many WS's attest to including my own h) but rather an event that took place because the WS MADE THE CHOICE to be "untrustworthy" ??????????

Posts: 2465 | Registered: Sep 2005
Truly
Member
Member # 40715
Default  Posted: 5:21 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

Yep,^^^^^^

All actions are choices...totally sucks the big one!

Kia kaha to all x


There are dark shadows on the earth, but its lights are stronger in the contrast.
Charles Dickens


Posts: 257 | Registered: Sep 2013
karmahappens
Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 5:21 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

then isn't being untrustwothy also a choice that is made

Most definitely.

I don't know a remorseful wayward that would claim anything but...


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3850 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
EaglesWings
Member
Member # 41156
Default  Posted: 5:45 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

I trusted for 26 years without fail!!! Now come to find out he tried to seduce a friend after the first 3 years, then had EA (failed attempt to go PA) after 26 years. So I had years of "trustworthy" actions....Now I am expected to trust cause of 22months of "good behavior?"

That's where the leap comes into play....haven't stepped off the ledge yet. I am in the trust but verify stage. I have always been a welcoming, trusting person-don't want to lose that, but I don't think I will ever trust him with the same freedom as before. Maybe 99% but don't think we'll ever get 100%.


Just one beggar telling another beggar where to find bread....

Posts: 54 | Registered: Oct 2013
blakesteele
Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 5:58 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

Ticked-off....from my experience and 19 months of work, it is crystal clear my wife WAS making choices for years that enabled adultery to be an option for her....those were subconsciously motivated and linked to FOO issues and denying and ignoring feelings....(compartmentalizing at a habit level).

Fast forward to her A. First couple interactions (2-3 meetings perhaps) between her and her fAP were linked to her coping mechs.....but she quickly moved into very conscious, very intentional in nature.

So choices were certainly made throughout my wife's journey to affair land......just some of them had "hidden motivation" underneath them.

Intentional choices that had destructive results were being made by my wife with her full knowledge of what it was doing to me well before any DD.

She sat with me in anxiety therapy, saw me struggling trying to find, expose and work on what was the source of my anxiety....an elusive search as I had no idea my wife was in an affair at the time.....choosing to let me struggle knowing her A was a BIG factor in what I was struggling about.


So, in my sitch, the "slippery slope" was really only a couple of days long....my wife intentionally choosing infidelity quite quickly and eagerly.

It is from that vantage point that I believe infidelity has a VERY short "innocent" phase.....quickly moves into "intentional" phases.....no matter how many lies and justifications a WS use, they are very quickly aware of the choices they have avaiable to them and the ones they choose to make.

God be with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 6:57 PM, February 20th (Thursday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4041 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
AFrayedKnot
Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 5:59 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

Faith is a choice

Trust is the result of evidence


BS 40
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2647 | Registered: Aug 2012
blakesteele
Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 6:09 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

Now come to find out he tried to seduce a friend after the first 3 years,

While engaged, my wife kept a relationship with another man a secret....I discovered via an open email.

2 yrs into our M, this same man was still a thought in her head.....no known communication, but still a factor, still influencing her at some level.

And this mode of operation is part of her "why".


Now.....she is actively working on this component. I have seen noticeable changes in her that tell me she is willing and able to do this. Trustworthy actions , choices.

Peace.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 6:11 PM, February 20th (Thursday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4041 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
blakesteele
Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 6:21 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

then isn't being untrustwothy also a choice that is made?" If this is the case then this alone would confirm that affairs are not just something that happened or took place (as so many WS's attest

Oh yes.....I remember my first month on this journey. Wife was the poster girl of "I just don't know how this happened....I never meant for it to happen.....it just......did.".

If this weren't so damn painful.....I would find what I have observed by both my wife and I ....... laughable ?

We both thought what we were experiencing was so unique, so not like all the other M's affected by adultery.

19 months out......I can't complete a single thought NOW with anything unique to us. We are textbook.

God have mercy on us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 6:43 PM, February 20th (Thursday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4041 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
Lyonesse
Member
Member # 32943
Default  Posted: 6:44 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

I guess I make a distinction between extending trust to someone and truly trusting them. Like rachelc's example of "10,000 instances of him making the right choice" before she trusted...but she extended him those 10,000 chances, which was a kind of trust that he would eventually prove himself.

Sometimes we have to extend trust - letting our teen go out in the evening, all the while our mind is going over the 1,000 ways they could end up in trouble. At some point (probably about the time they reach retirement age) we begin to actually trust that they aren't going to do any crazy teenage things.

I could say I am extending trust to my WH in that I don't check up on him all the time; I expect him to take over the "vigilance" for his behavior. But do I trust him to always do the right thing? Not yet. Not yet. Still too much of a work in progress for him to grow up at age 59, too many circuits that he needs to retrain in his brain.

ETA: Wish I had read Chicho's post before I posted! He said the same thing I meant to say, much more succinctly!

[This message edited by Lyonesse at 6:48 PM, February 20th (Thursday)]


Me: BS, 40's.

Posts: 1797 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: West Coast
TICKED OFF
Member
Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 6:45 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

"blakesteele"……YES YES YES. Infidelity does indeed have a very SHORT "innocent" phase. Yet so many WS's (as my own) continue the charade that it was just something that happened all rolled up into ONE event. H is very good at this (or thinks he is anyway)

The ONE event he talks of is actually a series of choices (6 weeks worth) that he deliberately made KNOWING it was completely wrong on all levels. Having the a and kicking me in the gut as well as kicking his best friend in the gut by making the choice to sleep with his wife. So yes, the short innocent phase of the a was most likely the very first day. Anything after than was planned out. It was at that point that the choice to be untrustworty was put into action.


Posts: 2465 | Registered: Sep 2005
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 7:14 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

Trust is the result of evidence

word!


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5345 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
SoVerySadNow
Member
Member # 36711
Default  Posted: 8:57 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

^^^plus one!
WH admits now that he made an active choice to commit adultery and continued the deception with his lies. He says he ran full out through every stop sign.
Now he says he prays every day that I will find it in myself to choose to stay and forgive. He does believe it is a choice. Or does he hope that?
Trust may be a choice, but...it's going to take a long time, filled with much evidence of boundaries held, evidence of truth verified. Exhausting.


Me:BW
Him:WH
D-day(s),after years of TT and Gaslighting was Labor Day Weekend 2012, continuing for a week after. *Dammit! More TT 3/9/13
Really trending toward D- planning about it is my "happy place" now.

Posts: 1292 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Sunny Florida
foundoutlater
Member
Member # 32900
Default  Posted: 9:32 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

Trust is the result of evidence

I think the decision to trust is a result of my own perception of the evidence. I can’t see how trust can be anything other than a decision. Sisoon pointed out earlier that the choice might not always be a conscious one and I agree. I think that’s how I operated most of my life before the betrayal. Whether it’s in my conscious thought or not, I think it’s a decision I make based on the best evidence I have and my perception based on my life experience.

At some point the decision to trust is a leap of faith (unless you are cursed/blessed with the ability to see the future).


Your beliefs don’t make you a better person, your behavior does.

Posts: 1137 | Registered: Jul 2011
ItsaClimb
Member
Member # 37107
Default  Posted: 11:59 PM, February 20th (Thursday)

This is such a complicated area for the BS.

I came to a realisation a couple of months ago that if I am going to be happy in this marriage, then I have to bring something to it (my fWS can't be expected to do all the heavy lifting in R) what I have to bring to our R is my trust. Basically, I have to take a leap of faith if I want to be happy. I could go on obsessing, stressing and worrying... but then I wouldn't be happy and neither would fWS. Obviously the measure of trust I am willing to extend depends on whether my fWS is behaving in a trustworthy fashion - it's a two-way street. He is giving me no cause for alarm, so I am tryingto trust.

I was doing really well with this until a couple of days ago when I settled into a funk (resulting in my post yesterday)... I'm battling to pick myself up out of it, but I know that I am going to have to if our R is going to continue to be successful. What I have noticed is that I cope pretty well with all of this as long as life is going along steadily, the moment there are external stresses my "wheels come off" and I go into a decline.

I kind of thought I had my opinion on trust all sewn up until I read some of the responses to this post, now I have more food for thought. The whole faith versus trust thing has me thinking....


BS 46
Together 29 yrs, M 25 years
2 daughters 24yo(married with a brand new little daughter) & 19yo
D-Day 18 Aug 2012
6mth EA lead to 4mth PA with CO-W. I found out 8 1/2 yrs later

Posts: 1024 | Registered: Oct 2012
sisoon
Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, February 21st (Friday)

When I started up with W2b, I knew very little about her. I liked her, but didn't have much evidence of anything about her except that she was a top student.

I gave her my trust, though, based on my gut feel. That was choice, probably due to my chemical response to her. It was a choice - no amount of evidence could justify the amount of trust I gave her.

It turned out that my trust was misplaced.

After D-Day, she was committed to R. She was probably even more committed to ending her A, to NC, and to never betraying anybody again.

I could have trusted her then. She was trustworthy all along after D-Day - no lies, dodging relatively few issues (no one's perfect), etc.

I could have trusted her a year out, 2 years out. I trust her now, but I could still withhold my trust.

I trust her even though I know she could betray me again, no matter what her goals are.

Consider this: generally, the older and more used/exercised a physical thing is, the closer it is to failing. Why do we think the more trustworthy a person is, the more likely that person is to stay trustworthy?

That's some of what I mean by 'trust is always a choice'.

[This message edited by sisoon at 9:14 AM, February 21st (Friday)]


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10440 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
2B1again
New Member
Member # 40703
Default  Posted: 10:39 PM, February 21st (Friday)

It is clear that for us on this forum that the separation of the pain of adultery as related to trust is nearly impossible to impose on ourselves.
It is also sad that the element of trust or should I say, the dispensation of un-trust is pervasive in those who have experienced the devastation of being cheated upon.
As a Wayward, blind trust and the innocence that allows it is yet one more thing that I have stolen from my BS.
I think an interesting aspect of this situation is that while our BSs struggle with trust the WSs are generally unflinchingly trusting of their BS.
This dynamic confirms to me that those who are recipients of lies and deception are forever affected by these events in their lives and trust cannot be separated from adultery.
The WSs are generally not as affected in the realm of trust by their untrustworthy actions and therefore it is imperative that Waywards are forever cognizant of the "conditioning" that they have forced on their spouses.

[This message edited by 2B1again at 12:36 AM, February 22nd (Saturday)]


me- WH 51
her-BS 49
DS(26) DD(23)
Married 27 years
LTA 4yrs
DD1 1/2010
False R
DD2 8/2013

Posts: 15 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: NW US
still-living
Member
Member # 30434
Default  Posted: 5:55 AM, February 22nd (Saturday)

I think the decision to trust is a result of my own perception of the evidence.

Totally agree.

However, I assess evidence differently now...I pay more attention to actions, consistencies, history, body language, emotions, and understanding people's potential motives. I take it all in with my eyes wide open.....and I follow through when possible, validate, check, test, -especially in the beginning, -especially if the risk is very high.....and I have improved my knowledge of all this as a means to strengthen myself, protect myself, and reduce my risk of failing.

Good or bad, my equation for trusting has become much complicated. I often find myself judging people or worrying about something I need not, and reaching a conclusion that I do not need to trust, the risk is low, or ensuring success is not worth the energy. I reach the conclusion that I should just move on, stopping worry about it, and to just enjoy my decision because I WILL BE OK, regardless. I believe this is the Leap of faith part.


BH(me)47
WW 47 FOO Issues
DDay 11/09 Coworker
High School Sweethearts
Married 06/91
8 months TT
Sons 19 and 14
Recovery is constructing a pyramid of inference from which to see clearer.
The process involves using the reflexive loop.

Posts: 787 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Ches
blakesteele
Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 6:50 AM, February 22nd (Saturday)

2B1again......never read the resulting dynamic of betrayal as elequently stated as you just did. It resonates with me and I pray it resonates with any and all who read it too....but particularly to those WS's that read this.

I very much appreciate fWS's thoughts and feelings as I have such a thirst to know about what takes place pre, during, and post A inside their minds. I have this same desire to look inside my mind....but that task is obviously easier.

Through lots of work on why adultery is painful on all involved but "traumatic level" for the BS....it is apparent the lone fact of utter, intentional betrayal forced upon the BS is the main component to that.

Your paragraph-length post captured so much of my reality.....a reality that was formed through lots of IC, processing through PTSD-like syndromes, prayer and reading.

Thank you.


Still-living.....your comments are welcoming as well. I did have blind trust of my wife pre-A. I did choose to do that and believed it was warranted. I now see co-dependency issues within me that made that choice a more comfortable one as well.

I, like you, are choosing to see more. Sure, bright light of reality that my wife commuted adultery MADE me see more....but I could have reverted back to my FOO coping mechs if I wanted to.

I don't.

Couple days ago my wife said f-you to me several times in a conversation hardly warranting it. While I was hurt by her anger, I read her body language. Her words said I did something wrong....her body said something else.

I was able to stop my knee- jerk reaction of thinking "my wife's anger is about me " and react differently. I asked her to explain....she couldn't at the time but later, did.

Point is....while I miss the trust I had in my wife pre-A I am starting to enjoy my new "vision".

God be with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 7:02 AM, February 22nd (Saturday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4041 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
still-living
Member
Member # 30434
Default  Posted: 8:43 AM, February 22nd (Saturday)

Our "new vision" can be awesome! Or should we call it....wisdom?

Slightly off topic here but we talk about the need to observe change in our WS to gain trust. We know change is needed. We look for it. We feel more comfortable when we see "change". Change is needed in our equation of trust.

Anyways, my wife came home yesterday angry about a blatant error SHE made at work. Her error could have been catastrophic. She complained about snow days, disruptions, being short timed, others not having their stuff together, and how she was hurried. I said, "You have trouble accepting when you are wrong. You find ways to blame others and then be angry at them. It makes you feel better." Guess what........she got extremely mad at me. She called me a physio analyst (thank you!) etc., etc., etc.,.....and she blamed me! Buzzzer. I'm sorry. You failed. I let her stew in it for an hour to make this topic more important to her.

Then we discussed it. Topic #1: anger is a mask for fear. Good luck seeing me back off when you are angry. Topic #2, why not be happy that you caught the error? Topic #3, why do you take this approach of blaming others??

[This message edited by still-living at 8:48 AM, February 22nd (Saturday)]


BH(me)47
WW 47 FOO Issues
DDay 11/09 Coworker
High School Sweethearts
Married 06/91
8 months TT
Sons 19 and 14
Recovery is constructing a pyramid of inference from which to see clearer.
The process involves using the reflexive loop.

Posts: 787 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Ches
Topic Posts: 37