SurvivingInfidelity.com Forums
Wayward Side
User Topic: What do you do when your BS starts a revenge affair?
hopefaithlove4
New Member
Member # 42384
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, February 22nd (Saturday)

This is a bit of t/j from BBT, but I find myself in a mess that keeps getting uglier. I discovered that BS has now seen a woman twice that he met on match.com. He blames my affair for this, saying he wants to experience what I had, doesn't want to be that naive person anymore, and some revenge. He's been open with all my questions (I think) but this is turning in to a reluctant open marriage. He plans on continuing seeing her for the year--he's not sure, he thinks. He also thinks he can end it after he gets his satisfaction and that we can move forward. Right now he sees this as part of moving forward.

In a skewed away, I can understand this. He knows where I stand, but is saying it's either this or divorce. From my previous posts, you all have an idea of me. I have been 100% transparent, honest, and the role model WW. I've given up a lot to show I'm committed to this marriage. Basically, he is telling me to look the other way until he decides he's had his fill.

I totally understand how my actions led to these consequences and I own that, but I will not own his choices. This is totally tearing me up. He wants to know I'm committed and in this marriage, but wants to have his own affair while seeing everything from me. I can't rebuild a marriage when he's dating and he'll bent on an affair. How am I supposed to do this? What do I do? What are my options? Anyone deal with a BS becoming a WS?

This is so messed up. BS welcome to respond, too.


Posts: 31 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 1:48 PM, February 22nd (Saturday)

Look at it this way. We're in the garden and I chop your leg off with an ax. Do you think the best remedy to fix everything is to snip my arms off with the garden sheers?

Your husband having an affair after you having one will not solve, remedy, even the score, or heal either of you.

Even as a WW, you are allowed and should have boundaries. And those boundaries are allowed to include not tolerating your husband cheating for the next year with another woman.

Who gets to decide when y'all are even? Do you have a flow chart? Is he going to f*ck her the same amount of times you did the OM? Are the texts and emails going to be even between both couples?

Infidelity hurts. He hurts. I have no doubt about it. But I assure you, his being another woman is not going to un-betray him. His screwing someone else is not going to take his hurt away. In fact, it's going to complicate it. Because much like he needs to process, deal, and heal from your betrayal, you will have to process, deal, and heal from his. It ADDS to the layers of screwed-up in the post affair aftermath.

There is a thread in the ICR forum for madhatters. It is for couples that are both betrayed and wayward. You might want to check that out.

[This message edited by Aubrie at 1:50 PM, February 22nd (Saturday)]


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6058 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
20WrongsVs1
Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 1:52 PM, February 22nd (Saturday)

First, I am outraged for this woman, because I assume he''s lying to her and hasn''t told her she''s merely a pawn in his game. He''s treating her like a disposable toy, which is just sick and wrong.

He also thinks he can end it after he gets his satisfaction and that we can move forward.

Wow. If she doesn''t know this, I''m sorry, but your (B)H is behaving like a horrible excuse for a human. (Let she who is without blame cast the first stone...and I''m qualified to throw stones.)

Second, aside from him deceiving this woman, adding more hurt to an already painful situation isn''t the answer. No reason ever justifies an affair, including "well, you did it first, so ha!"

I can''t rebuild a marriage when he''s dating and hell bent on an affair. How am I supposed to do this?

You''re not. If he wants to date, he needs to divorce you. Period. And you have every right to establish that boundary. You can''t control (B)H, you can''t tell him what to do, but you can tell him what you will do if he cheats on you.

Wanting the WS to pay, wanting them to suffer...that''s a common reaction from BSs. A normal, totally understandable feeling. Acting on it, however, by betraying not only you but this woman...that is 100% on him.

Anyone deal with a BS becoming a WS?

There''s a whole thread devoted to it in the I Can Relate forum, called "Madhatters Only Thread." Madhatter (MH) is a term for a M in which both spouses cheated. Not a club your (B)H wants to join, I''m sure they would tell him.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response thereís a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1045 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
isadora
Member
Member # 29130
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, February 22nd (Saturday)

Your A isn't causing this. He is making a choice. there are a lit of BS out there that in their anger thing that an RA will get them even. It won't. Two wrongs do not make it right. You are allowed boundaries. Just because you had an A does not mean you have to tolerate his.


Me: BW Him: WH
Married: 10 yrs
4 children: DDs 6&4; DSs 2& baby
2 Affairs - 2010 year long PA/EA, 2008 2 month online EA
Multiple D-Days

I can only control myself, no one else. I do not have that kind of power.


Posts: 4501 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Back home again in Indiana
DTERMINED2SURVIV
Member
Member # 42294
Default  Posted: 2:21 PM, February 22nd (Saturday)

Drop him....My ws cheated on me several times. I never have and never would "get back" at him. The best revenge is loving someone so much they wonder how they ever hurt you.....




Posts: 270 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Where theres lots of southern HOEspitality
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 3:33 PM, February 22nd (Saturday)

You ask yourself if you are willing to accept his unilateral, and obviously warped and disfunctional, rewriting of your marital parameters.

You broke the original parameters and are trying to make amends appropriate to those damaged parameters. He is creating new parameters and telling you take it or leave it.

So...do you want to take it? Or consult a lawyer? What does your gut say?


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 4:02 PM, February 22nd (Saturday)

I will tell you what I tell all people who have unremorseful spouses who won't stop *dating* -- End the Marriage.

Most definitely check out the MadHatter's thread in the I Can Relate forum.

I could *kinda* see you being on the fence if he had engaged in a ONS as a result of what you have done. But what he is doing right now is just so far over the line, regardless of what you have done, that it constitutes downright cruelty and you don't deserve that.

I'm sorry.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7706 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
StuckinNJagain
Member
Member # 42140
Default  Posted: 5:38 PM, February 22nd (Saturday)

I am a BS about 7 weeks from dday 2. I thought long and hard about doing just what youe BS is doing. I admit the revenge factor is always swirling around in my mind and i even posted about it. Thankfully i didnt go thru with it. One of the replies to my post helped me see what effect this can have on my kids who are always my #1 priority. What message are you sending to them? This made me back off that idea. Dont get me wrong, the idea of giving my WW a taste of her own medicine is very tempting, and i have the opportunity. I just wont give her the satisfaction of knowing that i am as bad as her. I am not and i have my integrity intact. His A is just a offensive as yours and 2 wrongs wont ever equal out in this case. I cannot condemn WW if i am just as guilty regardless of reason. I as a BS have so many crazy things running thru my mind these days its numbing. Im sure he is the same. Just wanted to give a little perspective from BS side.


BH-46 (me)
WS-44
DD-16
DS-12
First Dday-2/09
Sec Dday-1/14
Married 17 yrs. Together 26

Posts: 58 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NJ
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 5:41 PM, February 22nd (Saturday)

I can barely stand to read this thread as its so triggery for me.
Please don't stand for this. My husband had two affairs after mine. He said they weren't RA but they hurt our recovery do much that we may not make it.
I wish I had been more firm in not putting up with his acting out, whatever reason he did it.

Do you really want to be married to someone who needs it to be even and equal?

[This message edited by rachelc at 5:42 PM, February 22nd (Saturday)]


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 48
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

ďSlide the weight from your shoulders and move forward. You are afraid you might forget, but you never will. You will forgive and remember."


Posts: 4522 | Registered: Dec 2010
BrokenButTrying
Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 5:47 PM, February 22nd (Saturday)

I honestly don't know.

BH came home and he was acting very strangely. He was flirting with me! Really playful, teasing me, initiating play fights... just how we used to be years ago.

We had dinner, watched a film. Afterwards, I was tidying up, he disappeared into the kitchen. I was putting something away in a cupboard and glanced round the corner. He was stood at the end of the kitchen with his back to me, under the pretence of checking on his snake in the vivarium. But I could see he was actually typing away on his phone. I asked what he was doing, he replied "nothing" and shoved his phone in his pocket.

This is usually really hard for me to do as I have a pursuer coping mechanism and we have a distancer/pursuer relationship dynamic but I have decided to step back completely. I'm not even going to ask questions. I can't control him, his choices are his own. They may be coming from a place of pain, pain that I caused. But he still has a choice, just as I did. So I'm going to let it play out.

Would I leave him if he had a revenge A or ONS? No, probably not. Not because I think I deserve to be treated that way or because I think it will make us even. But because I don't think cheating is a dealbreaker for me. I have my IC session on Tuesday and I'll talk about it then.

HFL, I know that this must be making your stomach twist in knots and feel sick with anxiety. Are you and your H in any kind of MC? Please point him in the direction of the MH thread, it might help him get some clarity. I'll be thinking of you (((hugs)))


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1191 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
hopefaithlove4
New Member
Member # 42384
Default  Posted: 5:56 PM, February 22nd (Saturday)

He says they haven't done anything other than hug greeting/goodbye. But he is attracted to her and doesn't know how far he wants to take it. He says he wants to have what I had during my affair. And it's also about regaining his self-respect. I can understand both. He also says that regardless of what happens, he'll come back and recommit to the marriage.
He basically wants a friend with benefits for a bit. He doesn't want the emotional/relationship part. It is so messed up.

Posts: 31 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
StuckinNJagain
Member
Member # 42140
Default  Posted: 6:24 PM, February 22nd (Saturday)

I know i did and still do question my self worth. I think he may have wanted to stray before and now has an out. It is revenge pure and simple, nothing more nothing less. I also know that i couldnt look my kids in the eye and explain what an awful thing their mom did while i was doing the same. It Hippocritical. I will regain my self respect by taking the high road. I hope he comes to the same realization soon.


BH-46 (me)
WS-44
DD-16
DS-12
First Dday-2/09
Sec Dday-1/14
Married 17 yrs. Together 26

Posts: 58 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NJ
Skan
Member
Member # 35812
Default  Posted: 8:12 PM, February 22nd (Saturday)

BW here.

What do you do? You march yourself down to a lawyer, get legal advice about what a legal separation or divorce entails, and you start preparing to legally disentangle your lives together. Married people do not get to date. Married people do not get to fuck other people. Yes, he''s hurt. I get that. I SO get that. That does not change the fact that married people do not go out and find someone else to be their fuck-buddy.

You made a choice to commit infidelity. If this was a deal-breaker for your BH, then his choice should be to divorce you. One nuclear bomb has already been thrown into this marriage how much radiation poisoning can it absorb?

You are no more to blame for forcing him to have an affair than he is for forcing you to have an affair. These are individual choices that are completely on each of you, individually. If he''s decided to essentially commit an exit-affair, then find a lawyer. Maybe that will bring him back to his senses. Maybe it will confirm in his mind that splitting up with such an ungrateful WW is the right thing to do. Whatever. This insanity has to stop somewhere. Or the two of you better put up a scorecard and figure out what even-Stephen means.


Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

D-Day, June 10, 2012



Posts: 4586 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: So California
Mrs Panda
Member
Member # 27303
Default  Posted: 8:28 PM, February 22nd (Saturday)

What are you doing?

Things will not get better on their own. Do you plan to wait it out and hope one day he will realize how shitty his behavior is?

In my opinion, there is something very sadistic about this "revenge affair." He's not cheating just because he's messed up. He is cheating because he is messed up and wants to punish you.

nothing even close to R in this

Respect yourself and draw a line in the sand.

And it's also about regaining his self-respect.

For real? Cheating is about losing your self-respect.

[This message edited by Mrs Panda at 8:30 PM, February 22nd (Saturday)]


Me-41 FWW Him-45BH
M 13years. Reconciled.
DDay#1 Nov 2008 (OM2)
DDay#2 Aug 2009 (Confessed to OM 2001)
"Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand." -Kurt Vonnegut

Posts: 1971 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: The SouthEast
hopefaithlove4
New Member
Member # 42384
Default  Posted: 10:01 PM, February 22nd (Saturday)

We have talked a lot and argued a lot and cried and hugged. Whole range of emotions. I don't think he truly wants to do it, aside from that lure to finally fulfill a fantasy and he is using my a for justification. I think he is just really struggling. He says I put us in this spot. I'm not taking responsibility for his choice or justifying. He says I deserve it. If he does it for that, then we have no marriage. The vindication will never get repaid enough for him to be satisfied. And the fact that he would take the actions to do that says he cares little about saving the marriage.

This is hard. I want to continue to work on us healing, but now I find myself also wanting to back off because I need to mentally protect myself and be strong for what's coming. He thinks we should both work on the marriage during all this, but it's hard to be vulnerable to him when he flat out tells me he's starting to cheat. And obviously he's not ready to be vulnerable to me.


Posts: 31 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
Tearsoflove
Member
Member # 8271
Default  Posted: 11:34 PM, February 22nd (Saturday)

He says I deserve it.

So it's okay to devastate an outsider who did nothing to him in order to give you what you deserve? Wow.

I'm sad for you all but mostly for the woman he's playing games with. He thinks he can have a revenge affair? Wrong. No matter what he does, he will never be even because his affair won't be for the same reasons as yours. He knows exactly how devastating and painful it is and he will be inflicting that pain deliberately. And in the end, he'll have created more problems instead of solving any. On top of the further damage to your marriage, he'll have damaged his self-esteem if he ever has had any kind of morals. I would imagine that the self-injury of cheating is just as hard to overcome as the pain of being cheated on. And this time, he'll have done it to himself and have to live with it. Based on what I've seen on this site, revenge affairs rarely have the desired outcome.


"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand." ~Homer Simpson


Posts: 3968 | Registered: Sep 2005
soconfusednow
Member
Member # 40078
Default  Posted: 2:59 AM, February 23rd (Sunday)

He thinks we should both work on the marriage during all this
Having a RA is not working on the M. It is being selfish.


D-Day January 2013
prior EA in the 90's
me 50
WH 52
NC-several
last broken NC 7/2013 (hopefully)
Married 29 years
2 kids
Want to believe it's over, but is it really? Will I ever trust again?

Posts: 307 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
BrokenButTrying
Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 3:18 AM, February 23rd (Sunday)

Do you think on some level he blames himself for your A? If he views A as justified payback for pain then maybe he blames issues in your marriage on himself and thinks you had an A for revenge? Which is seriously messed up thinking!

Is counselling an option for either of you? An impartial third party might help him think more rationally.

From what you've said I don't think he actually wants to cheat. What he wants is you to relate to the depth of pain he's feeling.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1191 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
standinghere
Member
Member # 34689
Default  Posted: 4:03 AM, February 23rd (Sunday)

This is totally tearing me up. He wants to know I'm committed and in this marriage, but wants to have his own affair while seeing everything from me.

Many WS will find they have "boundary" issues, not in just their own actions, but in setting boundaries and enforcing them with others.

Your actions did not lead to his behavior. However, you are not setting boundaries that are healthy, for you, or for your marriage.

Set clear boundaries, make your wishes and expectations known, respect yourself, expect the same from others and take no less.

You don't deserve this, nobody does.

Good luck, sorry you are dealing with this end as well.


BH - Me - Late 30's (now late 40's)
WW - Her - Late 30's (now late 40's)
4 Children
Her - Love of my life...still is.
Reconciled - Partly...she can't get over it.
Her - Thunderstruck by what she did.

Posts: 912 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: USA
hopefaithlove4
New Member
Member # 42384
Default  Posted: 4:12 AM, February 23rd (Sunday)

No, he does not blame himself for my affair or any problems in the marriage that led to it. We both agree that it was my choice and I could have picked differently.

We did mc right away but he wanted to stop. He refuses IC. I go to IC. He says if he goes they'll tell him what he already knows-that this is wrong, then he'll be back to anger. When he thinks about having an ra he can control the anger. Probably because he feels he has control over something.

I posted last week about turning down a job (i'm a sahm) so that he knew I was focused on this marriage and the kids. During our talk I flat out asked him if he was seeing anyone and he said no. Two days later he was on his second date. We had a discussion about that tonight and he said he lied because he wanted me to make a decision for the marriage on my true feelings. Basically, he didn't want me to take the job and leave. So, I know he wants the marriage and he's said today several times he wants to do this, get it over, and move forward with me. Part of the issue is also the curiosity factor. I am his only and I can't say that about myself. Not proud of that.

I've ruined something very special between us. So now he wants to dabble. And, like a WS can't feel the absolute depth of pain a BS goes through, he won't know the WS crap until he goes through it.

He is in a struggle.


Posts: 31 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
fireguy87
Member
Member # 36992
Default  Posted: 5:11 AM, February 23rd (Sunday)

HFL4

Part of the issue is also the curiosity factor. I am his only and I can't say that about myself. Not proud of that.

I understand this statement. My FWW was my first and only. I was her first, but no longer her only. I can honestly say that even though our situation occurred almost 20 years ago, through the years I too had thoughts of a RA because of curiosity and because I felt that I deserved what she had also.

However, I also realized that if I deserved what she had, than she deserved what I had which, in addition to, all the pain and hurt that an A causes, there was also the anger and the opportunity to walk away because she had the right to decide if the A would be a dealbreaker, just like I had the right to make that decision.

In the end, I came to the conclusion that it just wasn't worth it. I didn't want to work hard for something just to then throw it down the drain. I also saw what a RA can do to families. The OM W was having a RA of her own when my W confessed. I can tell you they didn't survive and I know quite a bit about their family now a days since we have mutual friends. II'm glad I didn't subject my family to that scenario. We had kids during and after our recovery, and I'm thankful they didn't have to go through what OM's kids did (they already had kids before he and my W had an A).

In the end, regardless of what we all say, only you can decide if you want to put up with a RA. Yes, you are (or were) a WW, but that doesn't mean that you have to give up all your rights within the marriage.

Good Luck,
FG87


Me - FBH
Happened many years ago
Reconciled

Posts: 51 | Registered: Sep 2012
Mrs Panda
Member
Member # 27303
Default  Posted: 6:07 AM, February 23rd (Sunday)

Call Monday about the job. Maybe it is still open! Tell your husband you will be doing this and then looking for another job if this isn't open. It is time to protect you. It is also time for you to start changing and being strong. Even if he doesn't change, you will.


Me-41 FWW Him-45BH
M 13years. Reconciled.
DDay#1 Nov 2008 (OM2)
DDay#2 Aug 2009 (Confessed to OM 2001)
"Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand." -Kurt Vonnegut

Posts: 1971 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: The SouthEast
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 6:51 AM, February 23rd (Sunday)

SI folks...at this point, isn't he already a wayward?

Who knows about your affair? Kids? Family? Friends?

Would you characterize him as controlling? (Pre DDay)

Time for a firm line in the sand. Right now your marriage is dead EITHER way he chooses.

Time to take a job if YOU want to. Time to protect yourself.

Tell him if he doesn't immediately stop, provide you complete transparency, and go to IC - for starters - that Monday morning you'll see a lawyer, and are "99% likely to" out both of you to family and friends and his budding OW.

Shock and awe might be the only thing to snap him out of this. And that still might leave you with a non-savable marriage.

I could be totally wrong with all this. But the last thing you need right now is to be thinking of excuses for him, and to blame yourself for his post DDay choices.

I'm sorry for your very real mess. But from what I read and extrapolate, hope isn't gonna get the job done. He's doing some kind of reverse cake eating, or something. Just wow...


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, February 23rd (Sunday)

****He says I deserve it. ****

Tell your (now)WH this
---An eye for an eye just leaves everyone blind---


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7706 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
hopefaithlove4
New Member
Member # 42384
Default  Posted: 10:52 AM, February 23rd (Sunday)

He agreed early this morning that he'll talk to someone before he does anything else. He is really hurting and angry and the ra line of thinking helps temper that. It's all about his curiosity/fulfilling a fantasy and revenge. That he should have what I had during the a.

Absolutely no one knows about the affair except the mc and my IC. He does not want it exposed. I am fine if he does out it, I would prefer it wasn't but that's the least of my concerns.

He is a type a climb the corporate ladder type. I would not say he's controlling but I struggle with a power control because he earns all the money and I stay home. I do not know if that's real or I'm projecting. He has always considered income ours so this may be an insecurity on my part.. But I also know that when I had this last job opportunity he controlled the situation to his benefit by withholding information from me, information I point blank asked for. To me it feels that he wanted to hold me back, so, yes, this feels like he is being controlling. And then to give me the option of you work on the marriage and qietly look the other way while I have an open, free to date marriage or I'll leave seems like a control, too.


Posts: 31 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 11:13 AM, February 23rd (Sunday)

This just makes me feel ill and I am sorry.

The furthest thing from my mind as the BS was having sex with someone else and not bc I just loved my H so much at D-Day but because the thought of being intimate with someone was just so gross to me at that point. My bf even suggested our waiter one night and I laughed. She was serious! Gross. No thanks. I don't need to feel shitty about MYSELF in addition to feeling shitty about him.

I am with JustDesserts.

Time for a firm line in the sand.....

Tell him if he doesn't immediately stop, provide you complete transparency, and go to IC - for starters - that Monday morning you'll see a lawyer, and are "99% likely to" out both of you to family and friends and his budding OW.



Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2111 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
smez
Member
Member # 41882
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, February 23rd (Sunday)

hopefaithlove4,

My heart hurts for you. I know how long you struggled with the decision over the job. I do think he manipulated you to turn it down so he could continue to maintain a "sense of control".

It's time to put on your big girl pants and get serious. I 100% believe you are invested in your marriage. I think you are doing the necessary work to help you survive.

I do think you should call up the job and ask if they would reconsider having you back. If that is not an option, PLEASE get in writing your equity share in the start up.

He forfeited the moral high ground when he decided to start dating.


Me: 36
BS: 37

Married 8 years.
1 Child
DDay: March 2012


Posts: 72 | Registered: Jan 2014
HUFI-PUFI
Member
Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 3:14 PM, February 23rd (Sunday)

Aubrie - Look at it this way. We're in the garden and I chop your leg off with an ax. Do you think the best remedy to fix everything is for you to snip my arms off with the garden sheers?

I don't think I can say it any better than this.

HUFI


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3226 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
RippedSoul
Member
Member # 40055
Default  Posted: 3:37 PM, February 23rd (Sunday)

HFL4, of all the acting out that waywards do, of all the postings I read on this website, what bothers me the most aren't the accounts of WSes taking an A underground (as horrible as that is) but the stories of WSes who OPENLY continue their As. You knew then and know now what you did was wrong. You knew then and know now what you did was unacceptable. And hurtful. But at least it, for awhile, was a secret. You weren't flaunting it in his face while expecting him to deal with it, to continue as if nothing was different in your M and as if you shouldn't react.

So I think there's a HUGE difference in what you did and what he's contemplating. Believe me, I understand how hurt he is. While not one iota of me wants a RA, ALL of me wants my SAWH to understand how demeaning and soul-crushing and excruciating the pain of his betrayal was. But a RA won't do it. Unfortunately, nothing will. He'll never understand how I felt and feel. He can try, but he can't succeed.

So not only is a RA immoral, it's futile, too. If you know why your BS is carrying on a RA and it's in plain sight, then it's more maddening than anything. Would you be blind-sided? No. He's not hiding it. Would you lose trust in him? No. He's not lying. Would your marriage be re-written to justify his behavior? No. He's not excusing the bad behavior in the same way.

A revenge affair does not equate to an affair. I understand (and am attempting this) reconciling after an A; I do NOT understand trying to reconcile when an A is happening openly. That's when I'm completely on board with the "file for divorce yesterday" crowd.

Waywards have a huge amount of work cut out for them because of the choices they've made and the consequences that follow an A. Betrayeds do, too. But the work is different, the work is not equal, the differences are not fair . . . but life is not fair. If he truly wants to R, then no RA; if he wants to have a RA, then no M. Reconciliation isn't synonymous with humiliation. Just because you choose poorly in the past doesn't mean you deserve to be belittled. How is that going forward? How it that progress? How is that healing?

Don't let your guilt shame you into settling for this kind of behavior from your betrayed spouse. Sure, he's devastated, but this is no solution. In fact, it seems almost exploitive. No, no, no, no!


BW: 49; SLAWH: 46; M: 23 yrs
DD#1--11/30/12 (prostitute #1)
DD#2--1/29/13 (AP, escorts #1 & #2)
DD#3--9/13 (trolling MILF site)
DD#4--10/8/13 (EA with AP cont'd)
DD: 20; DD: 18; DS: 16; DS: 14
PS: I've NEVER NOT edited my posts

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: California
stunnedin12
Member
Member # 38141
Default  Posted: 4:09 PM, February 23rd (Sunday)

I'm a betrayed spouse - The furthest thing from my mind was a revenge affair. I gave great thought to bodily harm, but the idea that ME having an affair might even the score? Improve my marriage? Make me feel better? Nope.

I'm sorry your spouse is doing this to you and your marriage.


ME - Betrayed Spouse
Him - Wayward spouse
Not sure, but trying I guess.

Posts: 431 | Registered: Jan 2013
FeelingSoMuch
Member
Member # 38814
Default  Posted: 4:33 PM, February 23rd (Sunday)

Betrayed spouse here. A revenge A doesn't help at all, just adds to the pain. If you both want reconciliation, then this is a time to invest in each other.

If you're already in MC, it's probably a good idea to start immediately to keep things from further falling apart.


Me: BH
Her: WW
Together since 2001, married since 2007.
D-day: Feb. 20, 2013.
Broke NC: 2 phone calls since
Today: In MC and IC, attempting R.
It got easier: They no longer work together.

Posts: 506 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Canada
womaninflux
Member
Member # 39667
Default  Posted: 8:14 PM, February 23rd (Sunday)

Confused about how to regain self respect by dating someone while married. Didn't he see how well it worked out for you? How exactly does this happen involving another person when self respect is something you have because you have worked on yourself and you feel good about your choices. Not sure how dating someone, using someone for personal gain accomplishes this. If your BS (or anyone) is unwilling to work on the angry feelings he has with his current marriage, he is doomed to take it into the next one. Never a good idea to heat one up while you are cooling one off. Even if he were single and dating someone. It's just confusing yourself, causing more drama. It's the highway to Bitterville. He'll forever be lonely on the inside trying to fill a void. The only way to regain your self respect is by liking yourself again.

[This message edited by womaninflux at 8:18 PM, February 23rd (Sunday)]


BS - mid-40's
SAWH - mid 40's
Kids - 2 elementary school aged
Getting tons of therapy and trying to "work it out"

Posts: 855 | Registered: Jun 2013
outtanowhere
Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 9:53 PM, February 23rd (Sunday)

Just a thought. What happens if at the end of his self imposed indulgence he decides he prefers the new girl?


BS - 57
SAWH - 60 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 37 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 650 | Registered: Apr 2013
hopefaithlove4
New Member
Member # 42384
Default  Posted: 10:10 PM, February 23rd (Sunday)

Well, when i brought that up he said that won't happen as he is not looking for a relationship. But he doesn't want to be with anyone that wants a ONS. He wants a pseudo relationship on his terms. The other woman apparently doesn't know he's married and she also has a daughter the same age as our daughter. I can't track any info down on her as he has everything password locked and i can't get in to anything. Nothing good will come out of it.


Posts: 31 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 11:00 PM, February 23rd (Sunday)

This situation is SO wrong on SO many different levels......


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7706 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
hopefaithlove4
New Member
Member # 42384
Default  Posted: 11:53 PM, February 23rd (Sunday)

It's not as easy as everyone says to say fine, we're divorcing. If he's unsure about this, I'll wait and watch and hope the IC he's agreed to see once can help him. Maybe this is seen as spineless on my part. If I press anything it just spurs him in the wrong direction. If I focus on us and making positive moments, then that seems to help. Then he starts questioning why he'd do it and he's more open to me. Press it, he gets angry.

I feel utterly powerless right now. On one hand he is hell bent to do this and I get the ultimatium of deal with it or we get a divorce. On the other hand, he is also torn and recognizes it's wrong and is unsure about doing it, questions why he would when we do make progress, and he says he wants to stay married. I can't challenge it. I can't challenge anything. Any time we have a dif opinion I get the a thrown at me and "this is never going to work, we need to divorce." exact words.

Is this abuse? Is it normal BS anger? Is this co-dependence? I don't recognize us at all.

I am in a spot where I need to protect the family. I don't know where that is or what exactly it means. We have two elementary aged kids and I am going to have to make a decision to protect them.


Posts: 31 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
ThoughtIKnewYa
Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 12:20 AM, February 24th (Monday)

What he's doing is going to be soul crushing for HIM. Do you think he understands that? It will be soul crushing for you, too, but I think that's the impact he's looking for, right now.

I can't tell you how much I hate to see this kind of stuff happen. It's like insisting on a double shit sandwich, when a single was too much, already. Have you read the 180? It's not about forcing or changing the actions of your spouse, it's about getting yourself strong enough to deal with whatever might happen. You can't control him, but you CAN control your reactions to his actions.


Posts: 11403 | Registered: Mar 2008
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 5:09 AM, February 24th (Monday)

You sound afraid of him getting angry.

You realize him getting angry at hearing things he doesn't want to hear is a way he's learned he can manipulate you and situations.

It's going to be a warm, fuzzy moment when his clueless Match.com girlfriend, innocently dating, learns he's a married cheater.

You putting a lot of stock in hope, faith. and a wing and a prayer. You are making a lot of excuses for him and you. Rationalizing for him and you. Justifying for him and you. The chances for a happy ending here, from what I'm reading, sound slim to none.

You effectively have no support network. You are isolated and alone. And you are afraid of him. This is about control and punishment for him. And I doubt it will stop here.

Yes, SO wrong on SO many levels. I hope you get help and take action.

JD


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
TOMTEFAR
Member
Member # 39257
Default  Posted: 5:33 AM, February 24th (Monday)

Sorry about this but I don't agree with everyone else here.

People are different. We hurt differently. We manage our hurt differently. We are affected by an A differently both as a WS and as a BS. Some find the idea of the WS getting to have an A and not the BS extremly offensive. Even worse having the WS not staying through it.

For some the inequallity of an A is to much. For some revenge is Paramount. Right or wrong it's just the way things are. I know of several that had an A of their own after being betrayed with the end result being a great M.

I'm not saying that having an RA or a free card is good or bad. However, it does good for some.

You can argue that the BS can Always D and yes that is true but what if that isn't the wants of the BS or the WS. It might be a way through with a RA/free card.

I beleive that for some doing this is the only option other than D.

I know not the thoughts and ideas that's generaly on this board but I just thought I chime in with the other side.


Posts: 105 | Registered: May 2013
LostSamurai
Member
Member # 41347
Default  Posted: 7:02 AM, February 24th (Monday)

Devils Advocate here...I myself came close, probably in my own head of having an affair after my WW affair came out.

1. The Pain he is feeling is so great that he needs medication...problem is he trying to get the medication from someone else other than you. Which is somewhat understandable, after all the betrayal he is not sure if you are the safe medication.

2. The justification is very disturbing. The fact that it is a fantasy and now he feels he has free range to act on it, shows that He either wanted to have an affair himself and probably for quite sometime.

1a. He needs to get on some Anti-Depressants.
2a. He needs at least IC to understand that what he wants is not right or justifiable. As much pain he is in, he is making the situation much worst.

You said he is the type to climb the corporate ladder. No doubt his self-esteem took a very big blow and feels powerless and like he needs to redefine himself. He is going about it the wrong way.

You have to do as the others say, set boundaries and your going to have to explain this to him in a loving way.

I for one wouldn't want a revenge affair, but like many BH,I wanted to feel special to someone and like I meant something to them. Some will go looking for it and sometimes it lands in their lap because of the boundaries and emotions get all screwed up.

I am praying for you and your family.


I am now nothing by a mere Ronin.

Posts: 1029 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Maryland
hopefaithlove4
New Member
Member # 42384
Default  Posted: 7:54 AM, February 24th (Monday)

The justification...he's going to do it as long as he wants. "You don't get the luxury" of knowing the details. "I never wanted this. You put us here." "You have no right to an opinion." His exact words.

I've backed off. To push it just makes him angry and gives him more justification in his mind.

I totally get the eye-for-an-eye feeling, the want of a RA. I even get the testing the waters a bit to give your WS a taste of their own medicine. But I will not be the justification for his choices. You made me do it. I will not carry that weight anymore than I would ask him to carry the weight of my choice to have an a. Our choices are 100% our own.


Posts: 31 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
reallyscrewedup7
Member
Member # 30825
Default  Posted: 7:54 AM, February 24th (Monday)

I might be able to offer some insight as BH who experienced something similar.

I filed for divorce, got my own house with primary custody of our oldest and split time with our youngest. Separated finances and the whole deal.

And I used a young woman to ease my pain. She knew everything about me, was single, much much younger (16 years) and her eyes were wide open. Even though I was through with my marriage, I used her.

My fww and I have been back together almost three years. And my greatest regret was using that woman. I feel like shit even posting this now, talk about triggers.

But I get your husband. You have crushed his soul. He feels replaceable. He wonders why someone he loved could do what you did. He feels absolutely hated. He feels that you hate him so much you would happily make him a part time Dad just to chase your OM. He feels absolutely unsafe in what he once thought was the foundation of his world. And he is flailing away trying to find something that will give him security. And in doing so, he is only hurting himself more.

And he wants you to pay, to suffer. As much as the "party line" of adultery goes that it was not about him and all on you, he still knows that you were not ignorant. That every time you had sex with your OM, you knew exactly what you were doing. That it was intentional. As unhealthy as it is, that need to make you suffer as you have made him suffer is going to be around for a long time.

I know you said he does not want to see a counselor, but if you could relay something to him, let him know that a good IC can help him find his footing again and to deal with the anger and overwhelming pain in ways that will really help him heal and not hate himself even more in the future.

I wish you both healing and strength. You will both need it.


Infidelity sucks shit

Posts: 896 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Finding my way
nevergiveup10
Member
Member # 41537
Default  Posted: 8:09 AM, February 24th (Monday)

Hopefaith,

I was in your shoes, I know how painful it is. My BS took the stance that we were not together and she was being open with me about it, so it was OK in her mind.

She had a relationship with someone else for about 3-4 months she met on match.com. She too refused IC at the time and now admits it was a mistake. She used the guy to boost her self esteem, etc.

I didn't walk away, but tried the 180 and took some big steps back. It was effective, she knew she had to choose or we were going to be history. My situation was a bit different as we were not living together so it wasn't in my face all the time.

Protect yourself legally and be ready for anything. Like many others have said, set your boundaries to retain your self respect. Only you know your husband well enough to know if this will pass or if this is it. Follow your gut, as hard as the reality may be. Don't be strung along.

You're not alone, good luck


WH 39
BS 34
D-Day July 15, 2013
Together 10 years
Three great boys 8,5 & 2
Working on R

Posts: 99 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: East Coast
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, February 24th (Monday)

What do you want to do, hfl4? It sounds to me like you want him to do this to get it out of his system. Do you really want advice, or are you venting? You seem to want to justify your WH's behaviours.

Was it wrong for you to have an affair or "date" whilst married? Yes, of course it was. It is just as wrong for your WH to do this even though he has told you he is doing it. He also lied and deceived you.

You say he wants to do this out of curiousity, to gain his self-respect and for revenge.

Curiousity ~ that option is gone. Once you get married you have ended that option to be curious and to act on that curiousity of what sex is like with someone else. If he wants to fuck other people, he needs to leave the marriage. Then he can be curious and fuck other people all he wants. He can break his vows and have no integrity or leave the marriage and at least have integrity.

Self-respect ~ this will not cause him to gain self respect. In fact, quite the opposite. How can he have self respect when he is using someone else and lying to this person? That is disgusting and loathsome. He should have at least gone to Ashley Madison where all the cheaters know that each other are married.

Revenge ~ this is the big one. Why would you want to be with someone who wants to hurt you so massively? Even when I was the most hurt and angry I couldn't cause or want my WH to suffer the same as I have suffered. I love him, I don't want to be the one to cause him some of the greatest pain a person can suffer.

When my FWH had his affair he didn't do it with intentions to cause me great pain and suffering. He didn't think I would ever find out, so it wouldn't cause me pain. Yes, that is arrogant and selfish, but also I do see that he didn't have an affair to intentionally cause me pain. Your WH is doing this intentionally to cause you pain and suffering. Do you feel your WH loves you? I am sorry, that is the furthest thing from love. That is pure unadulterated selfishness, hatred and pettiness.

Why would you want to be with someone that wants to harm you? He might as well get a butcher knife from the kitchen and stab you with it. Would you stay with someone who did that to you? Oh, right, you are a WW so you would deserve to be stabbed with a butcher knife. Emotionally, that is what your WH is doing. Stabbing you over and over again.

You have two options here: Put up and shut up. Or, file for divorce.

This is abuse. Waywards don't deserve abuse. Betrayeds don't deserve abuse. No one does. To purposefully and intentionally abuse you, hfl4, isn't love.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9404 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
bionicgal
Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 11:18 AM, February 24th (Monday)

Sage words, Sister M!


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is more like a mental break than a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 1754 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
hopefaithlove4
New Member
Member # 42384
Default  Posted: 12:39 PM, February 24th (Monday)

SisterMilkshake,

I am struggling with all those questions. I don't agree with this at all but a part of me is also thinking, hell, do what you need to do to heal. Let's get through this and move on to working on the marriage. I am just so damn exhausted from it. He wants me to pay, then, fine. There are consequences for both actions and he will need to deal with that as well. I'm not justifying his behavior, but I can certainly understand it. I can even understand the pain that he wants to inflict but to go ahead and do it over and over and over again just to satisfy his need for vengeance is something else. And that is when the marriage will end.

I did a lot LOT of stupid hurtful things in my affair, but when it was discovered I stopped immediately. Doesn't make anything right about my a or make me a stand-up citizen, obviously, but I did the right thing, finally. I saw his pain, I saw his hurt, I saw the destruction and I never wanted to be the cause of that then or again. So the fact that he willingly WANTS and calculatingly IS set on and is setting the ball rolling on inflicting this pain.......I just don't have words for it. I do not have the words for it. That is the part I'm struggling with, not even the affair itself.


Posts: 31 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 12:57 PM, February 24th (Monday)

He says if he goes they'll tell him what he already knows-that this is wrong, then he'll be back to anger. When he thinks about having an ra he can control the anger. Probably because he feels he has control over something.

But he's not in control. He's searching desperately for a way to feel better, to feel like he did before the A - but he can't. He's in a very big state of denial, imo, and that benefits no one. I feel very sad for your H - his pain is palpable in his actions. I feel very sad for you - your regret is just as palpable.

Here's the thing - if he does this, and you allow it, he will still have been cheated on. There will be no 'evening the score', because when you think of his A, it will be clouded by your A. There is a reason, a thing to tag to it to say 'this is why'. He'll never have that. It will never be 'even'. He needs to understand this. He needs to decide if he wants this marriage with you. If so, then cheating is not a solution. If not, it's time to go your separate ways.


I've ruined something very special between us. So now he wants to dabble. And, like a WS can't feel the absolute depth of pain a BS goes through, he won't know the WS crap until he goes through it.

He still won't get it, and neither will you. He won't know the WS crap, because he'll pin it all on your A. You won't know the BS crap (to use your work ) because you'll always pin his A on your A. Again, there is no evening up, no leveling the field, ever.

I don't say this to blast you, at all. You're remorseful. You're doing what you can. He's not accepting of reality, and instead is searching for a way to 'settle' this. There is no way to do that. He needs to decide what he wants and act accordingly. He's so hurt right now, he's begging for something that will fix things. This won't, but he can't see that.

I'm so sorry for you hfl4. He's left you in an almost no win situation. I suggest you decide what is acceptable to you, and move forward. He'll have his side of things, but you'll have the knowledge that you didn't wait around for the fire to completely fizzle out. If he goes through with this, that's what he's doing - setting your marriage on fire.

(((((hugs)))))


It's so easy to believe someone when they're telling you exactly what you want to hear.....

Posts: 1738 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
Unagie
Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 4:28 PM, February 24th (Monday)

The justification...he's going to do it as long as he wants. "You don't get the luxury" of knowing the details. "I never wanted this. You put us here." "You have no right to an opinion."

I heard all this...the exact words just a few months ago. I am a year and a half from my confession and a year from finding out about his A. When I found out and since then I have been blamed for it all. The punishment never stops...don't get caught in it, its a vicious cycle. Your entering into a reluctant open marriage by your choice.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

Do not let others be your reference for who you see in the mirror.

Stop allowing people to hurt you, because you don't love you enough to walk away.


Posts: 2639 | Registered: Oct 2012
TOMTEFAR
Member
Member # 39257
Default  Posted: 2:43 AM, February 25th (Tuesday)

I did a lot LOT of stupid hurtful things in my affair, but when it was discovered I stopped immediately. Doesn't make anything right about my a or make me a stand-up citizen, obviously, but I did the right thing, finally. I saw his pain, I saw his hurt, I saw the destruction and I never wanted to be the cause of that then or again. So the fact that he willingly WANTS and calculatingly IS set on and is setting the ball rolling on inflicting this pain.......I just don't have words for it. I do not have the words for it. That is the part I'm struggling with, not even the affair itself.

Several others have noted the same things as above and francly I find this a bit offensive. A WS knows that what they are doing is gonna hurt the BS. I don't at all see the difference from having a RA. The original WS hurt the BS just as much so please stop with this blameshifting. The WS was not any better at all. They knowingly hurt the BS during their A, the BS just didn't know about it yet. There is no difference at all. The one having a RA is not worse, francly if he/she is open about it, they are better than the original WS since they don't play the lies and deceite game with the A.

The original WS has the same option as the original BS to end the M if they can't accept/cope/live with the RA.


Posts: 105 | Registered: May 2013
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 5:51 AM, February 25th (Tuesday)

T/j.

TOMTEFAR:

Most WS's don't think they'll ever get caught. Most WS's rationalize and justify and compartmentalize and self delude regarding thinking they are and will not be hurting their BS. Most WS's have no idea of the level of pain they will cause their BS if caught.

And most WS's, when caught, and when they emerge from the fog, and when they see the devastation and hurt they have caused, will never, ever make those shitty broken damaged choices again.

A BS demanding free passes, or a revenge affair, to "even the score" is making the same shitty broken damaged choices with FULL AWARENESS of the consequences and damage they cause. That gives their infidelity the moral high ground? Because they aren't sneaking around but rather staring at their attempting to reconcile partner in the eyes as they pull the pin on the grenade, drop it at their WS's feet, then pat their kiddos on the head as they walk out the door to fuck someone. Yeah...that makes it all even steven.

Frankly, what you're selling - I personally am not buying.

Maybe you should start a thread "Why revenge affairs are good". I'm guessing it will be a smash hit.

I read your posts. Frankly, you sound angry. Very angry.

End t/j



2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
smez
Member
Member # 41882
Default  Posted: 6:24 AM, February 25th (Tuesday)

I am just so damn exhausted from it. He wants me to pay, then, fine. There are consequences for both actions and he will need to deal with that as well.

EXACTLY. He is a big boy. You can not control his decision any more than he was able to control yours.

I won't tell you to go get a D because that option is casually thrown out here way too often.

Stop engaging and participating in this behaviour. If he wants an RA, fine but you aren't going to stop him, encourage him or even be any part of it. Disengage and work on yourself. Decide what are your dealbreakers, express them to him and then put a plan into action.

If you are "okay" with him having the RA (and that is a personal choice that you really need to sit down and examine if you could live with...I personally would be okay...irritated but okay), go work on yourself and be there for him when this blows up in his face.

If you aren't okay, start getting your ducks in a row and work on an exit plan.


Me: 36
BS: 37

Married 8 years.
1 Child
DDay: March 2012


Posts: 72 | Registered: Jan 2014
majortom87
New Member
Member # 40350
Default  Posted: 6:26 AM, February 25th (Tuesday)

I'm a BBf(?) who had an RA. I get where you H is, been there done that, and let me tell you this: it is not easy. To have an affair is not as easy as people tend to believe. Especially if you're not looking for fun or a relationship, if you're full with anger and spite. His ego must be really down, and that won't change after his A. He'll see the OW as a lesser option, as in "I'm such a shit that I only get to choose between 'bad food' for myself or 'better food' shared with who knows how many OMs". If he's looking for "justice", to "even" the M, he won't find it in a A. What it's worse, he'll blame you for his "straying", for making him do things out of character for him and, thus, making him a "worse person". Not saying that's logical or that he'll say it out loud, but it's what it is. That's where I am right now. I broke up and I have mostly moved on, but I still blame my xGF for my hurting the OW (how crazy is that? lol)

Explain him your boundaries and if you make threats, follow them. Explain him that the A won't make fairness out of unfairness, it will add more unfairness for third people, and it'll haunt him.


Posts: 17 | Registered: Aug 2013
Unagie
Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 8:33 AM, February 25th (Tuesday)

^^^^^ a lot of WS had an affair for the same reasons. We felt not good enough, low self esteem, like we didn't deserve more, why the he'll else would we choose to enter an A? The choice to enter an A isn't made by a healthy, whole person. Its made by a broken shell who is trying to fill a void with outside validation that can only be filled from within. Majortom from your words I feel you know this but blaming your xGF is easier then dealing with the real reasons behind your decision to have an A.

Hopeful there is no worse here and I hate the term revenge affair it gives justification within the terminology itself. You had an A and now he is having an A. He chose to deal with the pain by going out with other women. You know about it and know he is not planning to stop. Now, what are your dealbreakers? Figure out your pin in the sand and stick to it. You dont even have to rush this choice but dont allow his actions to continue to cause you pain while you figure it out. Detach, 180 and figure out your life.

[This message edited by Unagie at 8:36 AM, February 25th (Tuesday)]


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

Do not let others be your reference for who you see in the mirror.

Stop allowing people to hurt you, because you don't love you enough to walk away.


Posts: 2639 | Registered: Oct 2012
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 9:00 AM, February 25th (Tuesday)

Hey-

I think that the fact that your BH 'saved himself' for this marriage and its fidelity is a very powerful and important dimension that has not been fully fleshed out in the above comments. To me it sets up a double betrayal along multiple dimensions.

As a BH, I really like painfulpast's take, and its focus on the view that your BH is trying to make himself feel better. One aspect of course is his not wanting to feel like a fool in having saved himself.

I really do not like the notion of this being about revenge in this case. It is about self-medication and desperation. Not revenge. It is about the desperate desire not to feel humiliated and emasculated by having saved one's sexuality for a woman who wanted to get conquested by some one else. That is a tough nut folks. And a sad one obviously.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 843 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
Mrs Panda
Member
Member # 27303
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, February 25th (Tuesday)

It is about the desperate desire not to feel humiliated and emasculated

...so I am therefore going to try to humiliate and emasculate (insert female equivalent here) my WW. And maybe an OW or two, or three, or four...

Fucked up "coping skills" are just plain fucked up. No matter who coped first.

I think you are afraid to let him be angry, and would rather be complicit in his cheating than really dig in.


Me-41 FWW Him-45BH
M 13years. Reconciled.
DDay#1 Nov 2008 (OM2)
DDay#2 Aug 2009 (Confessed to OM 2001)
"Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand." -Kurt Vonnegut

Posts: 1971 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: The SouthEast
kannan
Member
Member # 36057
Default  Posted: 11:26 AM, February 25th (Tuesday)

I had a RA, that too with her best friend (I know it hurts tooo much, so I deliberately choosed her for my RA. There are two more reasons, she was the enabler,then she was onto me many times and I warned MY WS about this, her replay was that she was too beautiful and never wanted anything with me.

I had a six month A, did it in my home right under the nose of my WS. It felt good. I was/am not worried about the best friend as she was the enabler whom I thought was a good friend of me and my family.

As against many opinions here, My wife was the only women in my life, another women made me feel different. It gave me an esteem boost, I felt strong because many women find me attractive It helped me to realise I too have options, I got many things which my wife denied but gave to OM, that too felt good.

My wife was in fog, she was reluctant to give details about her A and OM, when she caught us, she immediately came out of her fog and jumped in for R. This also gave me an esteem boost.

But the thing is that MY A hurt me more than my WS and when I was having my A right under her nose in my home, at that time it felt good but
now that is the most repelling thing which makes me vomit.

RA are good for a temporary esteem boost, I was already had an issue with self esteem, WS affair took it to bottom. WS was the only women in my life, so doubted my skills when I compared myself to OM, OW helped me to solve that issue (when I saw her having big Os.)


But in my case my RA took the fog out off my WS in a second. She wasnt even ready to talk about her A or OM.

but in long run RA is going to hurt the original BS more than the actual A by the WS, if they try R. I felt good when I saw my WS crying while discussing my A but now I am seeking IC to find how I could be so cold and cruel to my WS.

I am now in R.


Posts: 139 | Registered: Jul 2012
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)

I personally would be okay...irritated but okay
Interesting that you find affairs merely irritating. Why is "revenge" on your spouse (or accepting it for yourself) so important? To want to hurt your spouse is beyond me. Why be married if you are going to be playing this game of "tit for tat"? Why would you want to be married to someone who, as kannan posted,
I am seeking IC to find how I could be so cold and cruel to my WS.
I had a light bulb moment here as I put kannan's quote in the box.

If one truly loves someone else, their well being would be your priority. I would suggest if you separate and divorce now you will be showing great love and caring for your WH. You will be saving him from himself. He will be able to keep his integrity. He won't be going to IC wondering how he let himself turn into such a cold, heartless, cruel person.

I don't care for the term RA, either. An affair is an affair. Period. "Revenge" is just an excuse, like any other excuse that WS's use.

I agree very much with everything in your post, Mrs Panda.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9404 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
MissesJai
Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 12:15 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)

I think you are afraid to let him be angry, and would rather be complicit in his cheating than really dig in.
I agree with Mrs. P. Not to mention, if you essentially allow him to do this to you, how will that help you? You are going to constantly compare yourself to this OW or whatever OW is his flavor at the time. You will lose trust. Hell, your husband is already a WH. He's ACTIVELY DATING the OW in front of your face. It's like he's triple dog daring you to do something about it all while knowing you ain't gonna do a damn thing about his cheating. You're too complicit and will do just about anything so he doesn't get angry with you.


FWW - 40
I'm big on personal responsibility. Own your shit. ALL OF IT.

Posts: 5767 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
smez
Member
Member # 41882
Default  Posted: 12:32 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)

SisterMilkshake,

Our marriage is strong enough for both of us to make mistakes. And I would look at the Affair as a mistake. My husband looks at mine as a mistake, not a marriage ending event, but a mistake. We would deal with the consequences and move on.

We all have different types of marriages and not all of us have same dealbreaker's as others.


Me: 36
BS: 37

Married 8 years.
1 Child
DDay: March 2012


Posts: 72 | Registered: Jan 2014
majortom87
New Member
Member # 40350
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)

Majortom from your words I feel you know this but blaming your xGF is easier then dealing with the real reasons behind your decision to have an A.

I rationally know that to be true, but my heart is in a different place. I think OP's H could be in the same spot. What it is sure is that he feels entitled, and he's the only one that can realize that he's going to hurt himself more than anybody else


Posts: 17 | Registered: Aug 2013
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 1:23 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)

I said it was interesting, smez, I realize everyone is different. However, you may feel different if you happened to be the BS. Don't know until you have walked in those shoes.

Interesting, also, that you categorize your affair as a mistake as opposed to a deliberate choice. I guess you are one of those WS's where the "affair just happened".


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9404 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
smez
Member
Member # 41882
Default  Posted: 1:29 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)

Oh for FFS...I actively sought out my affair. It was a mistake. My husband sees it as mistake. If he chose to have a RA, I would see it as mistake. Different strokes for different folks.


Me: 36
BS: 37

Married 8 years.
1 Child
DDay: March 2012


Posts: 72 | Registered: Jan 2014
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 1:36 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)

Hey, don't get upset. I said I think your thoughts are interesting. That is all. I don't necessarily agree with them, but I don't have a dog in this fight. Keep calm and carry on, as they say, smez.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9404 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
hopefaithlove4
New Member
Member # 42384
Default  Posted: 1:42 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)

Yes, I am afraid of making him angry. It's easier to let it go and not add fuel to the fire. The weekend was just a rollercoaster of emotions. He's bound and determined to do this and then come back to the marriage and recommit, but he doesn't see what everyone else, including myself, sees that it doesn't solve anything other than a temp boost to his self-esteem and a notch on his bed post. Maybe that's what he needs, but it also creates more problems than it solves.

This morning I hugged him goodbye for work and said "I love you". And he said, "I love you, too." Then we both froze because he hasn't said that in a longggg time. I asked if he wanted to take it back as an impulse and he said no he'd leave it. He said he never stopped loving me. He's also said, over the weekend, that he struggles with the A, doesn't really want to go through with it, and does want to stay in the marriage and make it work

I know he is acting out of hurt. I know he is desperate to find an answer to move forward with me. I know his ego and self-esteem are shot and he thinks he needs outside validation for it. How ironic that is. I know, at some point, one of us is going to have to draw the line in the sand and say enough. Right now, I'm hoping that he will do it on his own. I'm working on finding him a good IC to talk with, since he agreed to go--at least once.

I have IC tonight. Then we go on vacation tomorrow. Just us, no kids. Considered cancelling it, but I didn't want to. Let's keep the bar low, not force anything, and let it be what it is. Go, have fun, enjoy each other's company.


Posts: 31 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 1:43 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)

smez...

You have a PM.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 196510 | Registered: May 2002
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 1:55 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)

I forgot to mention this, and I don't think anyone else has. Have both of you thought of STD's? Have you both been tested so far? Is he going to use protection in his affair? How can you be sure? Most AP's claim to use protection, but the reality is, they don't. Will he have his OW (who doesn't even know she is OW, so very sad) take a STD test to protect you before he has sex? Will you have sex with your WH whilst he is fucking someone else? Better stock up on protection and doctors appointments for STD's.

The biggest shock of all to both of you maybe when the year is up for your WH to think he is in lllluuurrrvvvv with his AP. What then hfl4?

Go, have fun, enjoy each other's company.
Definitely. I also hope you talk more about this situation and get over your fear of his anger. Maybe, just maybe, he wants you to make a big hullabaloo about his cheating. Maybe that will show him how much you care for him and love him, in some weird thinking of his. Maybe it will show him that you are willing to risk his anger to let him know this isn't okay with you at all and that you can't stand by and watch him do this as it will break your heart.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 2:10 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9404 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
nevergiveup10
Member
Member # 41537
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)

I can tell you from my personal experience that you will have trust issues and it will be a blow to your already damaged WS self esteem. It makes a bad situation so much worse. I know why you're sticking in there, I did it too. We are working on R, but this really slowed the process. Triggers, insecurities, loss of trust...

Good Luck


WH 39
BS 34
D-Day July 15, 2013
Together 10 years
Three great boys 8,5 & 2
Working on R

Posts: 99 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: East Coast
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 2:16 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)

This might ruffle some feathers but I wonder if things get impossibly complicated when this happens because the BS who has a RA always then has a crutch - a "you did it first" that doesn't allow them the opportunity to really look at themselves because there is always the "hey if he/she wouldn't have done it, I wouldn't have done it." They always have that to fall back on and thus never fully explore why and fix themselves. If this is the thought, then there's no work done.


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 48
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

ďSlide the weight from your shoulders and move forward. You are afraid you might forget, but you never will. You will forgive and remember."


Posts: 4522 | Registered: Dec 2010
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)

rachelc, that is just an excuse and a justification for having an affair. It is an affair. By throwing the word "revenge" in front of affair it magically becomes somehow an okay coping mechanism?

My FWH's main reason for having the affair was/is his crappy to non-existent coping mechanisms. hfl4's WS is using this as a crappy coping mechanism. This isn't about healing, this is about medicating his feelings. With some strange.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9404 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 2:36 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)

Sister - you and I know that but that's why I cringe so much when I hear about RA - because the BS turned WS rarely takes the full responsibility.


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 48
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

ďSlide the weight from your shoulders and move forward. You are afraid you might forget, but you never will. You will forgive and remember."


Posts: 4522 | Registered: Dec 2010
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 2:46 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)

Aawww, yes, I am sorry, I missed your point, rachelc. Yes, you are right, the BS turned WS will use that as a crutch, as they are very broken, too.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9404 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
hopefaithlove4
New Member
Member # 42384
Default  Posted: 2:49 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)

Regarding STDS, I don't know if he's thought about that. I said if he does anything to use a condom. If he is doing something, I won't be having sex with him.

Nevergive up, I hear you. That ball is already rolling with the insecurities, self esteem, and loss of trust.

And, no, he won't address the issues after all this and instead will blame me. I told him that if he does this, then he needs to step up and be the remorseful spouse to help with the healing and he won't. Last night I told him I would like an apology from him to lying to me about his dating when I bluntly asked him as I was getting ready to turn down that job. He absolutely refused, saying he did it so I'd make my decision from my heart. So, no, there will be no remorse for his A.


Posts: 31 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 4:39 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)

Too bad he didn't come to SI and post his hurt and anger and fear. Check in with Menz. Post he was contemplating a RA.

Pandora's box is open. And you now have a wayward husband.

The poor and innocent Match.com single mom is really getting f*cked over here.

And if you do thorough std research, condoms can't prevent some really nasty and permanent doozies from jumping from one organism to another organism.

You've got one hell of a hot mess going! I'm sorry. And to think your BS had what many BS's here sadly only dream about: a remorseful wayward who wants to change and reconcile.

He's flushed all that away...

JD


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
MissesJai
Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 5:15 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)

Pandora's box is open. And you now have a wayward husband.
Yep. (((hopefaithlove4)))


FWW - 40
I'm big on personal responsibility. Own your shit. ALL OF IT.

Posts: 5767 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
Sal1995
Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 5:16 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)

In my opinion a BS who chooses a RA is simply an unfaithful spouse who finally found the excuse he or she had been looking for. The only difference - one spouse needed an excuse or something to react to, while the other just needed an opportunity and the belief that he or she would get away with it. Both scenarios are just as wrong.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciling


Posts: 1329 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Ascendant
Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 5:29 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)

I agree that the RA is always a bad idea, Sal, but I disagree with this:
In my opinion a BS who chooses a RA is simply an unfaithful spouse who finally found the excuse he or she had been looking for.
...is a BS who yells and screams at their WS after DDAY a person who always wanted to berate their spouse and was just waiting for the opportunity? I doubt it, provided they don't have any history of it before DDAY. Infidelity is a terrible thing, and trauma can turn otherwise normal people into creatures they never dreamed of. It doesn't mean that they're not responsible for their own actions, just that I don't think every BS who has ever had a RA had considered cheating before. In fact, I'd be more likely to think that the BS who has NEVER had those sorts of thoughts would be more tempted to have the RA, because the gulf between their actions and impulses and their WS's were so different.


"The thing that always seems to be shocking to wayward wives is the simple fact that the man you choose to reconcile with is not the same man you cheated on." - a friend.

Posts: 1945 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
Sal1995
Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 5:30 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)

double post

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 5:32 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)]


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciling


Posts: 1329 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Sal1995
Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 5:45 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)

...is a BS who yells and screams at their WS after DDAY a person who always wanted to berate their spouse and was just waiting for the opportunity?

No, because if that was the case then I guess I'd be someone who always wanted to berate his spouse. And I know that's not the case. But I'm not sure the analogy applies.

Berating a spouse who has caused you tremendous pain is an emotional reaction that comes from overwhelming shock and grief. It occurs in the moment. Going out and wooing another woman for the sole purpose of having "revenge sex" with her seems a lot more calculated to me. At some point you have to form the decision to have a RA, then take steps to make it happen.

Even taking into account the shock and rage that a BS experiences, I don't know how you could do that without having a preexisting wayward mentality. But hell, I'm no expert in this crap. That's just my take.


Me-45
WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, together 19+
4 children

Reconciling


Posts: 1329 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Ascendant
Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 5:55 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)

Berating a spouse who has caused you tremendous pain is an emotional reaction that comes from overwhelming shock and grief. It occurs in the moment. Going out and wooing another woman for the sole purpose of having "revenge sex" with her seems a lot more calculated to me. At some point you have to form the decision to have a RA, then take steps to make it happen.
No, you're right, this is a good point.


"The thing that always seems to be shocking to wayward wives is the simple fact that the man you choose to reconcile with is not the same man you cheated on." - a friend.

Posts: 1945 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
AppalachianGal
Member
Member # 31672
Default  Posted: 6:50 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)

This screams of abuse to me. So damn sad.

As a BS, I have momentarily thought of doing this. I think if most of us were 100% honest, a lot of us would admit it. What stops me? I actually love my fWH. I would NEVER hurt him like that. So, your WH's attitude about this is what bothers me the most, not that he thought about it. Its psychological abuse. I'm not even going to get into the fact that he is deliberately using a woman to hurt you. That's messed up in too many ways.

[This message edited by AppalachianGal at 6:54 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)]


BS (me) 41; WS, 44
DD#1- 09/07/10 secret cell found, texting ho-worker. Denies EA/PA
DD#2- 12/29/13 admitted ONS (1993) with bar slut 3 yrs into marriage
DD#3- 01/21/14 ho-worker from 2010 involved "one-time BJ."

Posts: 447 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: TN
hopefaithlove4
New Member
Member # 42384
Default  Posted: 8:45 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)

Sister milkshake,

Yes, he wants to see me hurt. He wants the field leveled so we're even, so he no longer has his innocence either. His words.

No, he does not want me to raise a stink about it. He wants me to quietly watch it happen with no protest. He never got to protest. His words.

We'll never be even. He says this helps temper his anger but he is always angry with me--because I confront him on this.

This will solve nothing. Nothing good will come of it.


Posts: 31 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
Mrs Panda
Member
Member # 27303
Default  Posted: 9:00 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)

Hopefaithlove

Show him this thread. Print it out. leave it on his bed
What do you have to lose? I know you are afraid to anger him. But he needs someone to hold up a mirror to him

Tell him about SI

It might just save your Marriage.

I am glad that you have drawn a minimum boundary of not having sex with him if he cheats. Have you told him this, or afraid of that too?


Me-41 FWW Him-45BH
M 13years. Reconciled.
DDay#1 Nov 2008 (OM2)
DDay#2 Aug 2009 (Confessed to OM 2001)
"Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand." -Kurt Vonnegut

Posts: 1971 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: The SouthEast
HUFI-PUFI
Member
Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 9:20 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)

((hopefaithlove4))

Perhaps you need to read the thread in R on Victim / Perpetrator dynamics and then decide how much crap you want to put up with in your life.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=523953

Gently said ... Simply not having sex with him if he has his RA isn't setting boundaries, its enabling. You need to re-read the page on putting the 180 into practice right now.

He can go on and on with his justification, and his rationales and his reasons. It doesn't change the damage he will do to himself, you and your marriage. Cheating is cheating.

Print this thread out like Mrs Panda suggests and give it to him. So what if it makes him angry. Better him angry than him being a two timing cheater.

If you can't convince him, then I guess he will just have to learn the hard way that cutting out his soul will will not heal his broken heart. And both of you will have to live with that consequence. Yecch.

HUFI

Oh .. and read this post too. http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=434654

[This message edited by HUFI-PUFI at 9:24 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)]


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3226 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 9:41 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)

Your (now)WH is seems determined to take this fork in the road (although I get the sense that it isn't something that he really *wants* to do) and I can see how you have no idea wtf to do. You are in a delicate situation. You can't be *too* angry or else you guarantee that he continues down this path. And you can't just sit back and take a complacent *what will be, will be* attitude either.

There are very few instances in a marriage where a *zero-sum* attitude works. A marriage is almost never *equal* in any one snippet of time.

I second (or is it 3rd by now?) showing this thread to your husband. He will be able to read the responses from other BH's who chose the path that your husband is choosing and he will see how it worked/or didn't for them.

IMO, this woman that your husband is dabbling with needs to know the truth about the situation. Have you considered finding out who she is and letting her know what is going on? Maybe she won't care, but maybe she'll turn tail and run. Maybe send her something that isn't bitchy.....just facts. "It has come to my attention that you are involved with my husband. You are an adult who can make her own decisions about her own life. Good decisions can only be made when you have good information.....and I believe that you have been making decisions with *bad* information and that you deserve to know the truth of the matter. I'm not sure what <he> has told you, but the facts of our situation are <xyz>. Take care. FHL."


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 7706 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
hopefaithlove4
New Member
Member # 42384
Default  Posted: 9:55 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)

He was onSI in the beginning but refuses now because it is so depressing to him.

No, haven't mentioned withholding sex. At that point, I'm sure he'll say fine, I'm getting enough from op. No need to tell him. I'll probably know it.

I know where my line is.

He admitted tonight that this is an attempt to find a solution, wants the payback, wants us at the same level. He wants his curiosity satisfied, too. I get the satisfaction of nothing, though, no guarantees it ends, when it ends, or what he'll do after.


Posts: 31 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
hopefaithlove4
New Member
Member # 42384
Default  Posted: 10:03 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)

I can't find the other woman. I'm trying my damnedest and I can't track her down. He has a secret email account I can't find and his iPhone is password protected. I have no idea how to track her down. I don't know what to do next as far as finding her.


Posts: 31 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
kannan
Member
Member # 36057
Default  Posted: 2:16 AM, February 26th (Wednesday)

In my opinion a BS who chooses a RA is simply an unfaithful spouse who finally found the excuse he or she had been looking for. The only difference - one spouse needed an excuse or something to react to,

I disagree with this opinion. I never thought about having an A. I had many many opurtunities while traveling to different countries, I never did anything because I loved my wife, she was so special to me that I never could hurt her in that way. But when she cheated that specialness lost for ever. When she hurt me and not ready to acknoledge my pain and hurt, when she was still protecting her OM, I felt I should also hurt her back then only she will realise what I am going through and had my RA.I wasnt looking for an A. The way she looked up me was horrible and belitted me as if I am good for nothing. I want to prove myself and her that I have options and can bed any one.

Really my RA helped her to come out of the fog quickely. RA is a good medicine if your WS is remorseless, stii in fog, protecting OM and not ready to acknoledge the pain they caused.

but I will never advise this because of the pain it cause to self.


Posts: 139 | Registered: Jul 2012
hopefaithlove4
New Member
Member # 42384
Default  Posted: 5:02 AM, February 26th (Wednesday)

Kannan,

What you are describing for a WS is the opposite of me. Both my IC and mc counselors say they've never seen anyone so remorseful and sincere and also feeling the hurt.

I have done everything my bs has asked: given him hundreds of thousands of dollars for his name only, dropped friends that had nothing to do with this other than knowing the guy, I wear only what he wants me to wear, I never go out unless I have the kids or him with me or I'm running errands, and he knows where I am, I've given up employment to prove my commitment, I will only take a job where he's comfortable. I show my love, demonstrate my intent with actions, and have his back. I don't know what else to do. He is just hell-bent on this.


Posts: 31 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
JustDesserts
Member
Member # 39665
Default  Posted: 5:25 AM, February 26th (Wednesday)

So, now we can add extortion to his list of punishing you?

And you're not allowed to dress yourself?

You say you don't know what else to do. To stop your Wayward husband? Or to start creating boundaries for YOU?

If you were reading this thread as if you were a stranger, what advice would you give the thread starter? Be honest.

Why are you protecting him and his choices? He's an abuser.

Why are you selling yourself short?

JD


2 year EA/PA. DDay 3/12. Broke NC 6/13 w/one stupid 5 line e-mail (which brought me to SI). Me: WH, 50. Her: BW, 49. Married 19 years. Two kids. Dog. Reconciling...together.

Posts: 403 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Suburbia, New England, USA
HUFI-PUFI
Member
Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 8:57 AM, February 26th (Wednesday)

hopefaithlove4 - What do you do when your BS starts a revenge affair? How am I supposed to do this? What do I do? What are my options? Anyone deal with a BS becoming a WS?

If its not too late, I would like to return to the initial questions you asked in this thread and see if we can come from another angle to address those questions.

If you don't mind me voicing my opinion, I think the failure on this thread was one of mis-communication. I think that everyone else assumed that you were asking for advice. That you would listen to their well-meaning advice, sort through it, come to some decision and move forward. But I don't think you ever intended that. I think at one level, your addicted to this drama.

You see, I was reading some old posts today and I ended up remembering another WS here with a very similar situation, eerily similar in fact. Some of the old timers might remember burntashes and her story.

Like you, she had a BS who started a RA, like you, she lived with a controlling and abusive H, like you, she was a door mat unable to assert herself in order to protect herself and her daughter. Like you, she came here daily and weekly saying woe is me, my h wants this and doesn't want that. Like you, the WS community rallied around her and supported her. Like you, they suggested the 180 and lawyers and leaving. Like you, all of that well meaning advice and heartfelt suggestions seemed to go to naught.

And then it started, one poster after another grew tired of screaming into the wind. They grew tired of supporting this unwilling victim who just couldn't get it. And as these posters grew frustrated, they would post a farewell " I hope it all works out well in the end, but I gotta go" post.

And then, out of the blue apparently, there was a update with the news that she had taken her first step to independent living, moving out and away from her horrible abusive controlling situation. I never saw an explanation of what tipped her over the edge but she did fall over the edge. I always harbored a suspicion that perhaps it had been the act of being abandoned here on SI for her failure to take some steps, any steps, to control her own life, that prompted her decision. I sincerely hope it was.

I know we're not supposed to become emotionally involved with the unfolding lives of our fellow WS but its hard not too. We get caught up in emotions because at one level or the other, we know what those feeling are. Been there, done that. We can identify with your fears, your concerns, your indecisiveness and your worries. But ultimately, if we stay attached, we risk loosing ourselves in your story. A Stockholm syndrome, so to speak. And that's not healthy. Its frustrating in the least to share yourself and find that it falls into emptiness.

As I said at the start of this post, I want to turn your question around. I want you to tell me what your doing for your own protection, for your own self-healing. What steps are you taking today to take control of your life? What actions have you taken yesterday to set firm boundaries? What are you planning to do tomorrow to protect your own interests? What can you do?

Because in the end, it is always up to you. I can give you advice and support but you have to take the first step in your own healing. You have to make the phone call. You have to find the strength within yourself. I can't do that for you. Mrs Panda can't do that for you. JustDesserts can't do that for you either. Not SI and not your BS either. It all starts and ends with you.

So, you already have the accumulated wisdom of both the BS and WS community reaching out for you in this thread, in the forums and in the healing library. I don't know if there is anything more that we can say to ever tip you over the edge and push you into action. Right now, you seem content to be a doormat and an enabler. Maybe this is something that you can live with but if you do, then you will always remain a broken, ducted taped WS.

Lastly, I want to say that I won't be posting anymore on this thread cause it breaks my heart to see this unfolding like a slow motion train wreck. Maybe other posters will remain but I can't. I wish you good luck.

HUFI

Wisdom from Gamine - Make a decision and discipline yourself not to waver. Don't be someone who stands for nothing. Stand for what you decide and back it with the full force of your character and conviction. DECIDE. CHOOSE. COMMIT. PERIOD.


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3226 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
Mrs Panda
Member
Member # 27303
Default  Posted: 4:40 PM, February 26th (Wednesday)

What on earth do you mean you gave him hundreds of thousands of dollars?!?


Me-41 FWW Him-45BH
M 13years. Reconciled.
DDay#1 Nov 2008 (OM2)
DDay#2 Aug 2009 (Confessed to OM 2001)
"Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand." -Kurt Vonnegut

Posts: 1971 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: The SouthEast
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 4:44 PM, February 26th (Wednesday)

^^^^ I was wondering the same thing. ^^^^^^^^^^^

I was assuming maybe she signed a post nuptial agreement, saying she would give up any claims on retirement, pension benefits?


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9404 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
MediumRare
Member
Member # 35128
Default  Posted: 7:19 PM, February 26th (Wednesday)

As a BS, I'll try to keep my reply as brief as I can.

If you theorize a marriage like a home, an affair is the equivalent of dumping a bunch of gasoline all over, lighting a match and burning the whole damn thing to the ground.

This is what you did with your affair.

Now, when the affair is over and the WS/BS are sorting through the wreckage and putting the pieces back together again to try and decide what to do... when the BS then grabs some cans of gasoline, a match and torches the whole thing as well, this is an RA.

This is what your BS/MH did.

The BIG problem is it isn't ending. He's continuing to go out, grab gasoline and torch whatever you may try to put back together again and again and again as the affair continues, so you're wasting your time.

It's complete and utter bullshit if you keep trying to own this repeating, perpetual RA nonsense on your prior affair. Stop trying to convince us of this and maybe you'll start to see it yourself.

It's complete and utter bullshit what your BS is doing to you now... and on top of it, in this form of using like a horse & carrot it's ABUSE, plain and simple.

Take the hard line NOW and stop the abuse. The ball is totally in your court now for how much abuse you are willing to settle from your BS.

Good luck to you!


BS (ME): 44
WS(HER): 42
9 years
OM#1- 20-something loser, stole bunch of my things after she had sex with him in our bed (no condoms, STDs)
OM#2- 24 year old, unemployed loser, lives with mom & dad
DDay 1/2012
NC 3/20/2012
SGASDay 4/1/2012

Posts: 712 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: California
burntashes
Member
Member # 29446
Default  Posted: 3:01 AM, March 2nd (Sunday)

hopefaithlove4,

I know the agony you are feeling. As HUFI mentioned, I went thru that agony myself. I thought tolerating my H's sleeping with random women as his way of coping with the pain was "proving my love". What it did was the beginning of more behavior that added lasting pain to the relationship.

I wish I had left at the first RA. I still struggle with triggers and pain, regret for putting up with things I never should have. I love my H and we are together, and we have a very clear agreement of what is not acceptable now. But I wish I had enough self respect to put down clear boundaries much earlier.

If your gut tells you this is not acceptable to you, tell your H. And if he insist on dating, as hard as it is, leave. Take it from someone who's been there, it is not worth putting up with. Having an A is a serious lack of self respect. To heal the WS dysfunction, the first step has to be start respecting your own integrity, and don't accept being expected to tolerate cheating. It's not about what you deserve. It's what a relationship requires to survive- fidelity.

It is a hard road, but we can learn and grow if we try to do the right thing the best we can. (((hugs and strength)))

t/j HUFI, I did not decide to leave or improve my situation because I was abandoned by support on SI. Having no access to any support system during hellish time only makes it more dark. But then, maybe you're right - we all have to learn to do thing the hard way sometimes. End t/j


Me: WW/MH 30s Him: 40s DD: 7 together 14 years, married 13
LTA
I confessed PA 6/10. Detailed confession: 9/10. All the truth 9/11.
Moved back together.

Posts: 352 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: California
hopefaithlove4
New Member
Member # 42384
Default  Posted: 7:36 AM, March 3rd (Monday)

1. I can pick out my own clothes, but he doesn't want me wearing skinny jeans or tall boots to work at the school. So i don't. No, he doesn't dress me or pre-approve my wardrobe.

2. Regarding the money: right after dday, he wanted to do a real estate investment. I was reluctant to begin with due to my financial anxiety and not wanting any major changes during this turmoil. But he insisted with "either this or divorce". He eventually backed off with that statement. So we took a chunk of money from our joint account and purchased this real estate in his name only. In the end it doesn't matter because of divorce laws in the state we're in.

3. Hufi, this is the only place I have for support outside of my IC. I get what you're saying and I'm trying to step back and look at this carefully. I'm not going to make any rash decisions and at this point I'm not discussing any decisions on this board. To me, this is the information gathering stage. He has seen this woman twice. He is also agreed to visit an IC because on some level he does recognize that this isn't the right choice. I don't know if he'll go through with IC or the affair. I think he wavers on wanting to stay married and keeping his self-respect and retribution. I didn't say it was healthy thinking, I don't support or justify it, I'm saying that's where I see his head at right now.

Burnt ashes, thank you.


Posts: 31 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 7:57 AM, March 3rd (Monday)

Hufi, this is the only place I have for support outside of my IC.
I'm not going to make any rash decisions and at this point I'm not discussing any decisions on this board.
These two statements seem contradictory to me. You ask for advice, justify what your WH is doing, and then state you aren't going to share information that would help in giving you support and advice. *shrugs shoulders*

Do you just want a pat on the head and a "there, there, everything will be okay"?


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9404 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
hopefaithlove4
New Member
Member # 42384
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, March 3rd (Monday)

You know, yes, I came on here with this posting naively hoping people would say "it's just a phase""they all say that" "it'll pass". Now reality is setting in and I have to figure some stuff out. And it has helped that people have said that despite my crap choices that I do not deserve this. Even hearing that, that my opinions, thoughts, and feelings do matter despite my affair means something. That I actually have value or am worthy of value.

I'm sorry I'm not sharing my plans on the board. But right now, I feel that I only have my thoughts and I want to hold those cards tight to me. I don't know if that makes sense to anyone or not, but right now I'm feeling I need to guard myself.

And I am not justifying what he is doing. He is using the same poor coping choices that I did to try and solve a problem. I've stood in those shoes, I see it unfolding, and I understand where it's coming from. But, no, I am not justifying it.


Posts: 31 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 8:36 PM, March 3rd (Monday)

I probably should have said you are accepting his justifications. Because you understand him still doesn't mean you have to stand by and accept them.

I am glad that you seem to be realizing that

despite my crap choices that I do not deserve this.
(((hfl4))) I sincerely wish you the best in your particular situation and that you are able to get some clarity in what you need to do for yourself. Your WH doesn't have your best interest at heart right now.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9404 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
Topic Posts: 98