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User Topic: Dating a WS
Ready_to_run
Member
Member # 20954
Default  Posted: 5:58 PM, February 28th (Friday)

Well, I have met a truly wonderful woman who is everything I could have ever wanted in a mate. But, she is a former WS...and it wasn't just a one off either...it lasted for 1 1/2 years.

So far she has pretty much said the right things...taken full accountability for the affair but also made it known her ex was an alcoholic who paid almost no attention to her so she was as they say "ripe" for an A.

When she told me my heart just sunk. I was glad she was so forthcoming about it but I have to admit it has kind of lingered in the back of my mind. It was 8 years ago and she says she has learned a lot from it and is not the same person anymore. I do believe her as it just doesn't seem to fit her character. But, as we all know, that is a common theme in here.

I'm not really even sure what my question is. I guess I just needed to get this out there and see if anyone has had a similar experience and if they were able to work through it. I really do like her and she feels SOOOO bad because she knows my past. She says it makes her physically sick to think about the A. I guess I just can't understand how someone could let it go on for 1 1/2 years then if it made them so sick??


BH
Divorced


Posts: 750 | Registered: Sep 2008
Catwoman
Member
Member # 1330
Default  Posted: 6:03 PM, February 28th (Friday)

What has she DONE to figure out why she had the affair and to mend things? Has she been in IC?

In my opinion, a WS who has done the hard work and who has really made changes and turned their flawed thinking around is a much better risk than a BS who only has their "BS-hood" to recommend them.

Based on what you have said, I would be wary. She says some of the right things, but an affair of 1.5 years, in my opinion, requires quite a bit of self-examination. Has she done any of that?

Another indicator might be her relationship with her ex. Obviously, his addiction issues muddy the waters. But how is their relationship? This assumes they have children and need to have a relationship.

Cat


FBS: Married 20 years, 2 daughters 25 and 22. Divorced by the grace of GOD.
D-Days: 2/23/93; 10/11/97; 3/5/03
Ex & OW Broke up 12-10
"An erection does not count as personal growth."

Posts: 29591 | Registered: Apr 2003 | From: Massachusetts
atsenaotie
Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 6:04 PM, February 28th (Friday)

How is she not the same person? Does she give you specifics? BTW, she was ripe for the A because of her, not her BH alcoholism. It could as easily been his working too much or too little, too into sports buddies, talked too much, didn't talk enough...

I guess the best precaution is to take it slow and rely on what you learned about yourself post dday.

ETA: in my experience, a LTA often points to an issue with intimacy.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 6:16 PM, February 28th (Friday)]


FBS 54
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4118 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
FaithFool
Member
Member # 20150
Default  Posted: 6:05 PM, February 28th (Friday)

her ex was an alcoholic who paid almost no attention to her so she was as they say "ripe" for an A.

She could have just divorced him.

Choices, choices, choices.

Yeah, 1.5 years is a long time to feel nauseous. Good luck with that one.


DDay: June 15, 2008
Mistakenly married Mr. Superfreak
20 years of OWs, WTF?
Divorced Dec 26, 2011
"Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget
to sing in the lifeboats". -- Voltaire

Posts: 17341 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Canada
Ready_to_run
Member
Member # 20954
Default  Posted: 6:23 PM, February 28th (Friday)

Cat, her and her ex have a good relationship and have a 10 year old daughter together. Apparently he has stopped drinking.

You all made some great points about doing the hard work required to determine what allowed you to be able to carry on something like this for so long. I guess it was primarily a long distance thing and they only met a handful of times. Not that it makes it all that much better.

She did do counseling for a few months but I haven't really heard anything about what she learned yet.

I hate talking about it but I guess these are things I need to know too in order to determine if this is something I want to pursue further.


BH
Divorced


Posts: 750 | Registered: Sep 2008
Catwoman
Member
Member # 1330
Default  Posted: 6:31 PM, February 28th (Friday)

It is something to discuss for certain. I would be frank: I am a betrayed spouse and you had an affair. Obviously, that puts us, on paper, on opposite teams. Let's talk about how the experiences have made us who we are.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Cat

[This message edited by Catwoman at 6:32 PM, February 28th (Friday)]


FBS: Married 20 years, 2 daughters 25 and 22. Divorced by the grace of GOD.
D-Days: 2/23/93; 10/11/97; 3/5/03
Ex & OW Broke up 12-10
"An erection does not count as personal growth."

Posts: 29591 | Registered: Apr 2003 | From: Massachusetts
cayc
Member
Member # 21964
Default  Posted: 7:02 PM, February 28th (Friday)

If she did the work, then why is she divorced?

And why are you so sure her story, he was an alcoholic who paid no attention to me is true? What if he turned to drink because she was having an LTR?

I don''t mean to be combative, but ...

but also made it known her ex was an alcoholic who paid almost no attention to her so she was as they say "ripe" for an A.

is still blame shifting. And blame shifting today.


"The difference between involvement and commitment is like ham and eggs. The chicken is involved, the pig is committed." -Martina Navratilova
"The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me." -Ayn Rand

Posts: 3059 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Mexico
homewrecked2011
Member
Member # 34678
Default  Posted: 6:38 AM, March 1st (Saturday)

Take it slow.

In my early 20's I was married to an alcoholic. He would wake me up in the middle of the night drunk, holler at me, etc. We went on vacation and he left me in a hotel while he took off with our car. He would come in at night so drunk, he wouldn't make it to the door. I kept trying to fix everything, and got deeper into hell. My mind was all over the place. I fantasized ALOT. About killing him, about being saved by a nice guy, about killing myself..... I met a guy when my WS was out of town and had an affair. I did this, but I should have gotten out of the marriage, however this marriage was like a bad domestic violence movie. Then, my XWH got sober and I still dated the other guy, left my sober husband for the OM. Then I broke up with the OM, gave my XH the house free and clear and moved back to my hometown.

I was a trainwreck.

So, give it time. You may be dating a really kind person who screwed up by staying with the alcoholic from the get-go.

[This message edited by homewrecked2011 at 6:40 AM, March 1st (Saturday)]


me BS 52
him - 46
married 15 years DIVORCED 10 31 12
children - ds15 ds12
d-day 12-19-11
I gave a 24hour ultimatum then went to attorney next day
Divorce filed

Posts: 2072 | Registered: Jan 2012
justjim
Member
Member # 41150
Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, March 1st (Saturday)

It would be a dealbreaker for me.


Follow your BRAIN.
Your HEART is stupid as shit.

Posts: 294 | Registered: Oct 2013
PurpleRose
Member
Member # 33129
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, March 1st (Saturday)

Complete deal breaker for me.

A leopard, spots, nuff said.


divorced the Dooosh
*****************************
even if you find your voice,
sometimes it does not matter anymore,
when you speak to a man who is deaf by choice.
~dodinsky

Posts: 3557 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: Happyville
Dreamboat
Member
Member # 10506
Default  Posted: 11:02 AM, March 1st (Saturday)

but also made it known her ex was an alcoholic who paid almost no attention to her so she was as they say "ripe" for an A.

This says it all for me. When someone follows a statement with "but" it means that you can disregard what they just said because they will tell you what they really feel after the "but". And she really feels that she was justified to have the A, at least on some level.

I would run fast and run far.


And it's hard to dance with a devil on your back
So shake him off
-- Shake It Out, Florence And The Machine

Posts: 17606 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: A better place :)
Ready_to_run
Member
Member # 20954
Default  Posted: 2:13 PM, March 1st (Saturday)

Well, we did delve into it further last night and it appears as if she has done a tremendous amount of work on herself since her A. She says she does not even recognize the person she used to be anymore and so far I do believe she is being honest and genuine.

I have said it before and I am of the belief that a WS that has been thru the storm and done the hard work is less of a risk than someone who thinks it could never happen to them.

But, that said I will still be proceeding with caution.

[This message edited by Ready_to_run at 2:14 PM, March 1st (Saturday)]


BH
Divorced


Posts: 750 | Registered: Sep 2008
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 4:17 PM, March 1st (Saturday)

I tried to date a fWS. He said everything right. Really delved into his past, the why's etc. He was open and honest about everything.

On the third date, he tried to kiss me…and I totally triggered, turned my head and pretty much ended the date.

Regardless, the mix of his past with the mix of mine wasn't fair to either of us. Just knowing he was capable of cheating meant I couldn't date him.

It really sounds like she "blames" her ex for her affair. I would think a truly remorseful fWS would never say, "I know it was wrong, but he paid no attention to me!!!". She should have told you,"I cheated and it was wrong…".

I'd be very careful.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4113 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: South
SeanFLA
Member
Member # 32380
Default  Posted: 4:41 PM, March 1st (Saturday)

Yeah I don't care what "work" they did. I don't even know what that actually means really. But I do know what "capable" means.

It would be a huge turn off for me. I just couldn't trust them unconditionally.


BS(me) 48
WW 46
1 son 14 yrs old
Married 18 yrs, together 21 yrs

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have." ~ Bob Marley


Posts: 1459 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: Zombie Land
Sad in AZ
Member
Member # 24239
Default  Posted: 7:03 AM, March 2nd (Sunday)

So, many of you are condemning the WSs here on SI for life? Why do you assume that she could have/should have reconciled with an alcoholic?

It's good that you can recognize that you don't belong with a FWS, but don't make that decision for Ready_to_run. I agree that he should proceed with caution.


I solemnly swear that I am up to no good.

Posts: 20035 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Upstate NY
SeanFLA
Member
Member # 32380
Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, March 2nd (Sunday)

It's not that we are condemning them for life, just for ourselves. If you ask the ex spouse of an alcoholic if they would ever want to get involved again in a relationship with someone who in their past that had an alcohol problem, you would might get a similar response from them as we BS's give...hell no even if they went to every AA meeting. And I would have no issue with that.

The only thing we BS's have to go on is..."the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.". He asked our opinions and we gave them.

[This message edited by SeanFLA at 11:18 AM, March 2nd (Sunday)]


BS(me) 48
WW 46
1 son 14 yrs old
Married 18 yrs, together 21 yrs

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have." ~ Bob Marley


Posts: 1459 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: Zombie Land
9.10.11
Member
Member # 36336
Default  Posted: 11:21 AM, March 2nd (Sunday)

My xww told everyone I was an alcoholic too. The woman I have dated for a long time heard this and believed her. When she got to know me she asked if I went to AA to get over alcohol. I said no, I was never an alcoholic...it was xww's excuse for what she did. Just some fyi of what I went through.

I personally could never trust a cheater. BTDT, don't plan on going through that again. One night deal...maybe. over a yr?! oh hell no.


Posts: 120 | Registered: Aug 2012
thyme2go
Member
Member # 12908
Default  Posted: 11:43 AM, March 2nd (Sunday)

Interesting responses. Maybe I am the odd one here but in my forays into OLD and new relationships post D, this is one subject that I have never asked about. To me it really does not matter as it is the current behavior of my date/SO which tells me everything that I need to know about their character. People learn. I trust whole-heartedly until I find a need not to. So far - so good!

My lessons learned via my ex's A behavior and reading here on SI has taught me everything I need to know on what to watch for.

Ready_to_run - I say you should proceed and just trust your gut.


-t2g

[This message edited by thyme2go at 11:44 AM, March 2nd (Sunday)]


BH - no longer 48
3 DD's - (27, 24 and 17)
Divorced on 8/6/09

Posts: 9176 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: Eastern Washington
Catwoman
Member
Member # 1330
Default  Posted: 12:30 PM, March 2nd (Sunday)

My OLD experiences mirror T2G's--I have met quite a few people, some good, some bad, one great (the one and only GDM).

People are complex and the sum of their experiences, not just one experience. Time will tell if this person's infidelity is a one-time thing or indicative of a deeper issue.

I agree with proceeding with caution and allowing someone to show you who they are.

Cat


FBS: Married 20 years, 2 daughters 25 and 22. Divorced by the grace of GOD.
D-Days: 2/23/93; 10/11/97; 3/5/03
Ex & OW Broke up 12-10
"An erection does not count as personal growth."

Posts: 29591 | Registered: Apr 2003 | From: Massachusetts
Ready_to_run
Member
Member # 20954
Default  Posted: 1:25 PM, March 2nd (Sunday)

My lessons learned via my ex's A behavior and reading here on SI has taught me everything I need to know on what to watch for.

I'm pretty much in that same camp, T2G. Going thru the hell of multiple D-days, gaslighting, and failed R tends to make someone ultra aware of behavior that just doesn't jive.

I agree with what others have said about it being a 1 1/2 year affair. That is a long time and my brain just can't wrap itself around how somebody could carry something on that long without the guilt destroying them. That's the sticking point for me.


BH
Divorced


Posts: 750 | Registered: Sep 2008
cmego
Member
Member # 30346
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, March 2nd (Sunday)

I'm not sure if people really "change", but maybe are more aware of themselves. As a young person in college, with little dating experience, I allowed myself to be the OW. My bf and I broke up, and he started dating someone else, and I stupidly thought if he was coming back to me for sex…that "meant something". Did I ever think about his gf? NOPE. I was like 19 years old.

But, I also realize that a college romance as a 19 year old is way different that cheating on my spouse, or in a long-term committed relationship.

It isn't that WS are "forever undatable people", but the combination of what *I* experienced with their combined experience generally doesn't make a good combination FOR ME. The thought process behind having an affair, for whatever reason, and for however long…is not something I will ever understand or have sympathy or empathy for.

Without that common ground of understanding, then I think the relationship will be more difficult than with someone you "get". Why would a fWS want to be around someone that views them cautiously? You have to know if you are a fWS and you are trying to date a fBS, there could be additional challenges in the relationship. If a fWS doesn't understand that, then they don't "get it".

I personally liked the fWS I tried to date, but he triggered me like crazy. I couldn't see myself ever really being comfortable around him.


me...BS, 43 years old, 2 small kids
WS, 41, multiple gay affairs
M 15 years, together 17
Divorced

"For whatever we lose, like a you or a me, it's always ourselves we find in the sea" ee cummings


Posts: 4113 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: South
womaninflux
Member
Member # 39667
Default  Posted: 2:30 PM, March 2nd (Sunday)

Here's how I see it:

1. At least you know up front. How many of us would have loved to have known information like this about our WS before we made a commitment?
2. She's putting it out there - take it or leave it.
3. Hopefully she has looked within herself to discover some things that led her down that path.
4. Sometimes, even after trying to work on a relationship, things aren't going to work out with a couple because they find out they aren't that compatible or one has evolved and the other one remains in an immature state that was fine when they were dating in their 20s. It doesn't mean the WS isn't capable of change.
5. Remember, you are only hearing ONE side of the story.

If you continue in the relationship and really get serious, I think some couples counseling would be good just to make sure everyone is communicating well and their aren't any issues that are being suppressed by the excitement of being in love again.


BS - mid-40's
SAWH - mid 40's
Kids - 2 elementary school aged
Getting tons of therapy and trying to "work it out"

Posts: 864 | Registered: Jun 2013
Griefstricken25
Member
Member # 29183
Default  Posted: 2:41 PM, March 2nd (Sunday)

Even if a wayward had completely done a 180 and they really were different, for me personally, that's not a risk I could take. I'd always, always wonder...

YMMV.


Me!
3 amazing kidlets
To WXH "Now you're just somebody that I used to know." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9NF2edxy-M
D-day and separation - June, 2009
Divorced - December, 2011

Posts: 2507 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: A better place
ideservebetter45
Member
Member # 36951
Default  Posted: 3:25 PM, March 2nd (Sunday)

Be very careful. MY EX was a ws.twice.He said he would never hurt anyone like that again. HE was in counseling and found God.He had an affair and left me and dd6 within 4 months.

Posts: 153 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: ideservebetter45
Ready_to_run
Member
Member # 20954
Default  Posted: 3:06 PM, March 26th (Wednesday)

An update: We have been dating for two months now and she truly is an amazing woman in so many ways. But, at the same time I feel like she still has so much work to do on herself before I can totally feel comfortable. I feel like she has some FOO and co-dependency issues that she hasn't really delved into before.

We talked more about her A and specifically what happened AFTER D-day. What I found out was a bit unsettling.

She did not go NC with OM immediately and actually saw him twice more while trying to maintain a "friendship." All the while her H was still living with her during this time. She maintains that they were separated though despite still living together. After her H moved out she then began to see a different guy for about a month. Then before her divorce was final in 2009 she began what would be a 4 1/2 year relationship with another guy.

During this relationship there were 3 or 4 breakups in which during each time she would see other guys before eventually getting back together with him. She finally ended it for good back in Dec. But, they went to Vegas together with another couple in January and stayed in separate rooms.

She dated a couple other guys in Jan/Feb. before I started dating her in early Feb.

She obviously knows my past and has been super about listening to my concerns and is 100% willing to do whatever it takes to make me feel safe in this relationship. Frankly, if she hadn't been like this I would have been gone. But, her positive qualities make me think she is worth the chance since she is so open to doing things to improve herself and has a renewed faith as well. I even discussed having her come on here and read and even contribute some and she seemed very open to that as well.

Just kind of wanted to get this out there. BS as well as WS are welcome to chime in with your opinions. Thanks.


BH
Divorced


Posts: 750 | Registered: Sep 2008
ajsmom
Member
Member # 17460
Default  Posted: 3:23 PM, March 26th (Wednesday)

As a non-dating member here, I rarely if ever post on these types of threads because I feel I don't have much recent experience to offer.

That said, judging from your latest update, and the number of relationships in which she kept her husband as second choice, that's a whole lot of times being an OW in my opinion.

WAY too many.


AJ's MOM


Fidelity isn't a feeling...it's a choice.

"Truth has no special time of its own. Its hour is now - always." - Albert Schweitzer
____________________________________________
Me: BW - Him: 200+ # tumor removed 7/09
DS - 31 - Yikes!


Posts: 21041 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: Been Through Hell...On My Way Back
norabird
Member
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 3:40 PM, March 26th (Wednesday)

My instinct says cut bait. She has never taken time to be alone, from your timeline. Always running from one thing to another. It's not healthy and it's not encouraging. You can't really work on yourself if you keep clinging to different relationships to make you happy. Also, from your summary, her way of talking about the divorce seems to gloss over the pain she caused. Oh, they were 'separated'? I wonder how her BH saw it!

People need to be comfortable being alone and happy with themselves first and foremost, and her relationship history shows the opposite pattern.


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4089 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
cayc
Member
Member # 21964
Default  Posted: 3:56 PM, March 26th (Wednesday)

I really cannot think of a single positive thing to say about your update. Maybe that I''m glad you''re still willing to post here and hear what people are going to say? Because surely if you are posting about it again it''s because you know this is a trainwreck waiting to happen. Her relationship habits and boundaries are just awful.


"The difference between involvement and commitment is like ham and eggs. The chicken is involved, the pig is committed." -Martina Navratilova
"The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me." -Ayn Rand

Posts: 3059 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Mexico
thyme2go
Member
Member # 12908
Default  Posted: 4:51 PM, March 26th (Wednesday)

Bro - you wrote your update with much trepidation. Why?


BH - no longer 48
3 DD's - (27, 24 and 17)
Divorced on 8/6/09

Posts: 9176 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: Eastern Washington
SeanFLA
Member
Member # 32380
Default  Posted: 7:19 PM, March 26th (Wednesday)

Wow...it's like every other sentence is "yet another guy."

Dude...I'm sorry to say it, but this woman is going to be another lesson for you.

[This message edited by SeanFLA at 7:20 PM, March 26th (Wednesday)]


BS(me) 48
WW 46
1 son 14 yrs old
Married 18 yrs, together 21 yrs

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have." ~ Bob Marley


Posts: 1459 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: Zombie Land
ProbableIceCream
Member
Member # 37468
Default  Posted: 7:27 PM, March 26th (Wednesday)

No judgment from me. Please update us on the inevitable train wreck, though.


Me, 32. DD, 8. DS, 6 (deceased).

Posts: 819 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Pacific Northwest
ruinedandbroken
Member
Member # 29250
Default  Posted: 10:19 PM, March 26th (Wednesday)

I think it is Dr. Phil that says something like, "The biggest predictor of future behavior is past behavior." And I truly believe that. That is not to say that everyone doesn't learn from their past and change for the better. Many people do. I just don't think it is the majority. I don't care how much work a fws has done, I (me personally)don't think I could date one, just because of my triggers and emotional hangups. I don't think that all fws should be shunned. None of us are perfect. I just don't think a relationship like that would make me feel safe to be in. I wish it didn't have to be that way with me. :(


“People who cheat feel that life is for the taking, and that everyone deserves happiness no matter what the cost. I must remember these tricks if I ever have my soul surgically removed."
Me: BS 42. Him: WH 41 2 Kids 6&9
Married 14 yrs Together 21

Posts: 1572 | Registered: Aug 2010
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:41 PM, March 26th (Wednesday)

Food for thought:

Has she ever been able to live without a relationship or has she always been defined by her relationship?

Who is she really?

I'm only posting here because somehow(Yea, I'm learning my reasons) I managed to pick 5 different women who, ultimately were unfaithful. Sounds like she's looking for a KISA. Don't become one.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2727 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
InnerLight
Member
Member # 19946
Default  Posted: 11:20 PM, March 26th (Wednesday)

I'm trying to understand what about her has so charmed you against this backdrop of persistent longterm waywardness. Only a few months in it's hard to tell how genuine a person really is. Some people are expert at appearing how you want them to be. I have a sister like this. Could she be one of these chameleon types? I hope not for your sake. I hate to rain on your parade but this doesn't sound very good...Be careful and guard your heart!


BS, age 53, d-day 6-2-08, divorced after 17 years and 20 together. dating again, living in the sticks with a cat. It's taking a long time to create new dreams and a new life but it is slowly coming together.

Posts: 5798 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Rural California
SeanFLA
Member
Member # 32380
Default  Posted: 4:54 AM, March 27th (Thursday)

Going thru the hell of multiple D-days, gaslighting, and failed R tends to make someone ultra aware of behavior that just doesn't jive.

Please reread what you wrote here. Are you sure you are now "ultra aware?". The uneasiness in your gut is telling you something.


BS(me) 48
WW 46
1 son 14 yrs old
Married 18 yrs, together 21 yrs

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have." ~ Bob Marley


Posts: 1459 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: Zombie Land
Sadmumma
Member
Member # 42192
Default  Posted: 6:28 AM, March 27th (Thursday)

That said, judging from your latest update, and the number of relationships in which she kept her husband as second choice, that's a whole lot of times being an OW in my opinion.

WAY too many.


I agree... seems she likes to start new relationships before ending old ones...

Arent things always peachy when you start seeing someone 'new'.. after 6 months or so the lustre wears off and reality sets in.

If you do plan on still seeing her tread very very carefully.....


On any given day you have the power to say "my story is not going to end like this"
Me 41 BS
Him 41 WH
6 kids...7 weeks, 5,7,9,11&13
D day jan 29th 2014

Posts: 535 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Land down under
Bobbi_sue
Member
Member # 10347
Default  Posted: 6:42 AM, March 27th (Thursday)

I personally make no judgment about people who "see others" while officially separated, moved out, etc, or before the D is final. I dated before my D to my first H was final. He was living with the OW, but I still know in my head, when we decided to separate, the M was over as far as I was concerned. I understand others view it differently and I accept that.

But with my perspective, still mostly only the original situation would be of concern: the 1.5 year A while fully married to her H. One of my questions about that is: Was the OM also married? To me, that makes a huge difference. Yes, it is bad to cheat on your spouse, but it is twice as bad to cheat on them with someone else who is also married in my view. It just shows so much lack of empathy.

Now to share some of my actual experience. My first H obvious cheated on me. When I was dating my current H, we talked about this some (many years before SI). He admitted to cheating on his first wife when he was 25 years old. He did tell me he was very unhappy in the M, but also admitted cheating was the wrong the thing to do and that ultimately, the failure of the M was both their faults. He will still say that to this day, but never defends cheating.

He was married to his second wife for 8 years and did not cheat on her, but she cheated on him, and that was what led to the end of the M. Even though his second M was also far from perfect, he never cheated on her nor even thought of it. To me, I guess the second M counted more when I was trying to get a picture of the kind of man (and kind of cheating risk) he would be.

So imagine my shock when after being married to him for over 10 years, he cheated on me and with the SAME WHORE he cheated on his first wife with back when he was only 25! I don't know why I'm telling this here because it changes nothing. I don't think what happened in my situation is any predictor about others who have cheated on the past, or the woman you are dating. It is just part of the facts and details of my case.

And even with all that, my H learned his lesson and is extremely remorseful. There are too many details to tell, but the fact it was the same whore as when he was married to his first wife makes it seem that this woman was somehow "extra special" to him. But knowing what I know now, it is more that she was extra persistent and that is what he gave in to, not any special weakness toward that particular woman.

Now it has been more than 7 years since then. We have no guarantees in life that we won't be cheated on, no matter how carefully we think we choose. But I am confident that my chances of being cheated on again while with my current H are very very low, and definitely lower than if I were to have to start over with someone new, even if that person had no known track record of cheating. I'm not sure what my H learned, if much of anything, after he cheated on his first wife. But in this marriage, he learned a heck of a lot and definitely demonstrates in his daily life that he has no tolerance for women who act inappropriately, flirt, try to tell him their personal troubles, and so on.


Posts: 5730 | Registered: Apr 2006
Ready_to_run
Member
Member # 20954
Default  Posted: 7:12 AM, March 27th (Thursday)

Bobbi, the OM was single. But, I completely get what you are saying about it making a difference. My XWW cheated with a guy that was engaged to be married and raising 4 kids together with his fiancé and never showed one bit of remorse for the fact that she contributed to breaking up that family.

I appreciate all of the replies. I am treading lightly and taking it slow. I'm also going into this with both eyes open and she knows that. She has so many good qualities that it just makes it hard for me to give up on her.


BH
Divorced


Posts: 750 | Registered: Sep 2008
cdagal
Member
Member # 38154
Default  Posted: 7:18 AM, March 27th (Thursday)

There are no guarantees in life. Has she changed? Maybe. Will she cheat again? Maybe. Should this stop you from having a relationship with her? Only you can decide that.

True, past behaviour can be an indicator of future behaviour. But how that behaviour would impact you in the future and how you would react to it is completely in your control.


M - 25 yrs
DDay - August 5, 2010
Divorced - December 12, 2011
He married the OW 35 days later
"Fall seven times, stand up eight" - Japanese proverb

Posts: 69 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Canada
EvenKeel
Member
Member # 24210
Default  Posted: 7:43 AM, March 27th (Thursday)

I even discussed having her come on here and read and even contribute some and she seemed very open to that as well.

I hope she does join SI....that she reads the stories with an open heart, takes advantage of the wisdom and reads the recommended readings. If she is really feeling what you state (renewed faith, etc), she would embrace any new tools (SI) to help her get where she is aiming to be (a better her).

On one side, she has been willing to talk to you about it and is open to the number of guys and timelines (even when they make her look bad)....so that is a positive.

However, if she ever stumbles on her new path; her retort can be "well....you knew how I was".

Given your history and her opposed history - this would scare the heck out of me for my heart.


Eyes are useless if the mind is blind.


Posts: 2061 | Registered: May 2009 | From: Pa
ajsmom
Member
Member # 17460
Default  Posted: 8:25 AM, March 27th (Thursday)

She has so many good qualities that it just makes it hard for me to give up on her.

I find this fascinating. That there is enough "other good" to negate what is obviously not healthy.

What about her matches your own values?

Because after all, isn't a relationship based on at least a bit of shared values?

ETA - I see fundamental things wrong with her, and that is a tough hill to climb, no matter the other shiny great things about a person.

[This message edited by ajsmom at 10:28 AM, March 27th (Thursday)]


Fidelity isn't a feeling...it's a choice.

"Truth has no special time of its own. Its hour is now - always." - Albert Schweitzer
____________________________________________
Me: BW - Him: 200+ # tumor removed 7/09
DS - 31 - Yikes!


Posts: 21041 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: Been Through Hell...On My Way Back
lieshurt
Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, March 27th (Thursday)

I find this fascinating. That there is enough "other good" to negate what is obviously not healthy.

Ditto!


I'm sorry if you don't like my Honesty, but to be fair I don't like your lies.

Sometimes it's better to push someone away...not because you stopped loving them but because you can't take the pain anymore.


Posts: 13726 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
SeanFLA
Member
Member # 32380
Default  Posted: 12:14 PM, March 27th (Thursday)

"well....you knew how I was".

And that my friends is the biggest grand-daddy excuse of all time. And believe me, it will be used as an excuse. I've heard that from the woman I was dating as an excuse for the passive aggressive way she was treating me. I finally decided my self-esteem couldn't take that kind of hurt and eggshell walking anymore from her and I just shut down. This is even after we talked about it and she said she would do me better going forward. To this day she still doesn't get it. And if she did she will tell you..."Well I'm just too old too change" (another bullshit line). Some people just never will.

[This message edited by SeanFLA at 12:15 PM, March 27th (Thursday)]


BS(me) 48
WW 46
1 son 14 yrs old
Married 18 yrs, together 21 yrs

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have." ~ Bob Marley


Posts: 1459 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: Zombie Land
Lola7
Member
Member # 41195
Default  Posted: 2:49 PM, March 27th (Thursday)

I would be really leary of someone who admits this to me. My XH admitted his past "mistakes" with his first wife and said he would never do such a thing again too. He also tried to blame her a bit by saying things like, "She read too much; she never paid attention to me."

I would never continue a relationship with someone who tells me they cheated in the past. I believed him when he said he had learned from his mistakes, but he did not. He did the same thing to me, and it's almost a carbon copy of what he did to her, right down to telling people I didn't pay attention to him, which is complete bullshit.

Be careful. When people tell you who they are, listen to them.


caelitus mihi vires
"My strength is from heaven"
DIVORCED!

Posts: 211 | Registered: Nov 2013
HopeImOverIt
Member
Member # 34517
Default  Posted: 3:02 PM, March 27th (Thursday)

I even discussed having her come on here and read and even contribute some and she seemed very open to that as well.
I hope she does join SI....that she reads the stories with an open heart, takes advantage of the wisdom and reads the recommended readings. If she is really feeling what you state (renewed faith, etc), she would embrace any new tools (SI) to help her get where she is aiming to be (a better her).

I agree. I think a willingness to read on here shows openness to empathy and change.

I would love to make "Not Just Friends" required reading for all couples about to be married. If she were willing to read that book, discuss it with you, and share how it applied to her OWN past choices... well I think that could tell you a lot about how much work she's really done.


Me: BW (50)
ExWH: (51)
2 teen-age boys
Divorced

Posts: 258 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: PA
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 4:06 PM, March 27th (Thursday)

I think I would personally date someone who admitted their past. It takes guts to admit you've cheated in the past. Many people know that it's an automatic deal breaker. So I think that honesty is good.

I will use myself as an example. I'm the BS in my last relationship, but I have cheated in the past in a prior relationship when I was younger. I was ashamed and knew it didn't look good, and I covered it up to new partners. Pretended it never happened. Then Dday happened and I went to counseling as a BS. My past came out though, and focused on it a lot. I had never dealt with it and learned from it, and I finally did. The next time I meet a guy, I will tell him the truth about it. I realize that it may be a deal breaker for him, but I want to be authentic and I want to be loved for who I am. And I truly feel that it wouldn't happen again because I understand what caused it the first time now.

I wouldn't automatically say no to a former WS. But I would ask questions, and I would listen to my gut feeling on it.


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1128 | Registered: Jul 2013
Ready_to_run
Member
Member # 20954
Default  Posted: 4:31 PM, March 27th (Thursday)

I would love to make "Not Just Friends" required reading for all couples about to be married. If she were willing to read that book, discuss it with you, and share how it applied to her OWN past choices... well I think that could tell you a lot about how much work she's really done.

Actually, I did suggest she read that book and she bought it and is currently reading it.

I agree, that should be required reading in order to get a marriage license!


What about her matches your own values?

Well, we actually met at church and are both now attending a small group together. Also, from what I have seen she is a good mother and also has a great career that she has worked very hard at. We both grew up in small towns and have conservative values. There's just a lot there to like.


BH
Divorced


Posts: 750 | Registered: Sep 2008
Lonelygirl10
Member
Member # 39850
Default  Posted: 5:08 PM, March 27th (Thursday)

We both grew up in small towns and have conservative values. There's just a lot there to like.

I would caution that actions speak louder than words. My ex said he had conservative values, and it's what attracted me to him. Even after Dday, he still declared that he had conservative values. He would say he didn't like opposite sex friends, porn, etc. But his actions were very different. And I know for a fact that his dating profile now says he has conservative values. So pay attention to her actions.


29 Bgf
Dday: April 2013
Relationship ended: January 2014

Posts: 1128 | Registered: Jul 2013
Topic Posts: 48