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User Topic: Truth or crap?
OnlyUpp
New Member
Member # 38344
Default  Posted: 9:27 AM, March 4th (Tuesday)

I'm several months out from DDay. WH is extremely snd genuinely remorseful. I had long suspected his A with a neighbor/friend we were social with. I found out months after it ended so he wasn't in the fog or anything. By then he just felt like sh*t about himself and wanted to mend things between us.
So anyway, things have been going very well but now I'm stuck.
He was very forthcoming and honest about things between them, but from day one he has maintained that while they did kiss on many occasions, it never went further sexually.
I know at the time what he really wanted was someone to make him feel special, and she said all the right things.
(She has a long history of this behavior well known to everyone we know, including her husband)
She basically threw herself at him for months right in front of everyone but he never reciprocated until much later.
She was very much the pursuer. I don't say that to take blame off him, I say it because I know her and it's true.
So anyway, he says she asked him several times to be intimate and he always told her he couldn't cross that line. If you knew my H, you wouldn't find that hard to believe. If you knew her, you would know it makes perfect sense that she would pressure him for more. (He explained that his refusal to take things further ultimately caused the relationship to fizzle out).
I just have a nearly impossible time believing that there was no further physical intimacy than kissing. On one hand his story is actually very plausible, but on the other hand if you and a woman are telling each other you love each other, telling each other you wish you could make love, the woman proposes several scenarios to make that happen, and you don't??? Was I born yesterday??
He says he was too chicken to actually do it.
He said he felt as long as he didn't cross that line he wasn't "really" having and affair (all the while knowing he really was).
I don't know what to think anymore. It's driving me nuts.

Posts: 36 | Registered: Feb 2013
BtraydWife
Member
Member # 42581
Default  Posted: 9:38 AM, March 4th (Tuesday)

How long did this go on for?


Me-BW
Him-WH
DD-March 2010
TT for 6 months
Unremorseful for 3.5 years

Delay is the deadliest form of denial. - C. Northcote Parkinson

Your standards aren't up for negotiation just because he/she can't meet them.


Posts: 1762 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
OnlyUpp
New Member
Member # 38344
Default  Posted: 9:42 AM, March 4th (Tuesday)

About 3 months.
In the beginning he admits they made time to see each other briefly about three times per week. He said it wasn't long before it was only twice a week, then maybe once a week, and then was pretty much only texting/emailing.
She had his head really filled with lies, (several of us actually think she may either be a pathological liar or possibly bi-polar)and after a while he really started to see the truth about her and it turned him off.
He was even vaguely aware that he wasn't the only man she was seeing behind her husbands back.
I now know for a fact based on other sources that she indeed had a least two other relationships going on.

[This message edited by OnlyUpp at 9:43 AM, March 4th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 36 | Registered: Feb 2013
BtraydWife
Member
Member # 42581
Default  Posted: 9:52 AM, March 4th (Tuesday)

And seeing each other was being alone inside one of the two houses? How long where these times? 5 minutes-2 hours? What does he say went on during these times? Them making kissy faces at each other and just talking seems na´ve unless it was just a few moments each time. Anything over 10 minutes would have me wondering as well.


Me-BW
Him-WH
DD-March 2010
TT for 6 months
Unremorseful for 3.5 years

Delay is the deadliest form of denial. - C. Northcote Parkinson

Your standards aren't up for negotiation just because he/she can't meet them.


Posts: 1762 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
OnlyUpp
New Member
Member # 38344
Default  Posted: 9:56 AM, March 4th (Tuesday)

Actually, ten minutes was about right.
He knew I thought something was going on between them and so did her husband. They didn't have much opportunity to sneak around. He said they usually met for a quick beer on his was home from work somewhere out of our direct area (maybe ten miles away) and then they would sit in his or her car for about five minutes and that was when the kissy face happened.
He maintains she was never in our home during this time and he was never in hers. By then we were obviously no longer friends and not socializing with them.

Posts: 36 | Registered: Feb 2013
norabird
Member
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, March 4th (Tuesday)

Maybe you could propose he take a polygraph?

I tend to be suspicious of this 'we never had sex' claim, but it must be true sometimes, and could be in this case. However I wouldn't believe it either in your shoes! So the polygraph seems like the only way to set your mind at rest.


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4190 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
BtraydWife
Member
Member # 42581
Default  Posted: 10:10 AM, March 4th (Tuesday)

Well if it was 5-10 minutes here and there and never alone inside a home then I suppose it's possible.

I like the poly idea. First you see his reaction to you asking him to take one. Then you actually schedule it and go.

My WH was smart enough to say he had no problem taking one but it was because he felt I would never go through with it. Yep mine was still lying. Many people on SI report parking lot confessions.

Might be worth the cost to just erase any question in your mind about this issue.


Me-BW
Him-WH
DD-March 2010
TT for 6 months
Unremorseful for 3.5 years

Delay is the deadliest form of denial. - C. Northcote Parkinson

Your standards aren't up for negotiation just because he/she can't meet them.


Posts: 1762 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
OnlyUpp
New Member
Member # 38344
Default  Posted: 11:03 AM, March 4th (Tuesday)

I should add one more detail that makes me lean slightly toward believing him.
In the very beginning I told him (and I meant it) that an affair is an affair and the level of sexuality between them would have no bearing on my decision to leave or work things out.

So in essence, he really has no reason to lie about it. He knows it wouldn't make things any different.
Of course now that he has been telling the same story over and over and I'm doubting him, I'm not sure what my reaction would be if I found out things were more than he said.

[This message edited by OnlyUpp at 11:07 AM, March 4th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 36 | Registered: Feb 2013
veronique12
Member
Member # 42185
Default  Posted: 11:16 AM, March 4th (Tuesday)

So hard to say. I personally find it hard to believe that they only kissed, esp since it was going on for 3 months. My H TT'd me to death and went from revealing only that it was:
inappropriate flirting and texting
to
kissing/making out
to
sex twice
to
sex many times, sexting
to
it went on longer than he maintained

But maybe you're H is stronger than mine was. If it's making you crazy to know, then the only way is the polygraph.


BW: me (38)
WH: 43
OW: false "friend"
D-Day: 11/29/13 (4 month EA discovered); 12/19/13 (discovered was also PA); TT thru 2/14
Married: 2001; Together for nearly 20 years
2 beautiful young kids

Posts: 507 | Registered: Jan 2014
Areukiddingme
Member
Member # 41950
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, March 4th (Tuesday)

I'm new here, but I can tell you to listen to your gut and take the advice people on here are giving you. They know what they are talking about. Sending hugs your way. You can get to the bottom of this when you are truly ready for the truth.

Posts: 52 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Southeast
OnlyUpp
New Member
Member # 38344
Default  Posted: 11:28 AM, March 4th (Tuesday)

I have no doubt that he would take a poly if I asked him to. Unfortunately I've looked in to it a couple times since DDay and there isn't one anywhere around us....I mean not even two hours away.

Posts: 36 | Registered: Feb 2013
Holly-Isis
Member
Member # 13447
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, March 4th (Tuesday)

So in essence, he really has no reason to lie about it. He knows it wouldn't make things any different.

That's how a person normally thinks. Wayward thinking is different. This is why many waywards claim only kissing when it went further. Or only a few times when it was every day for months. They are in full-on CYA mode and often ashamed to admit, even to themselves, how low they stooped.

MrH lied to me from June '99 until I hunted down xOw1 after d-day for the second A and asked her if they had sex. She was a pushy friend of ours too, so I had a hard time believing he didn't give in. He hugged her (LOL autocorrect changed her to germ) that's it. Then, 18mos later he admitted to kissing her.

Then d-day for 2A, seven and a half years later, he admitted to sex with xOw2. Twice. Figuring if he fessed up to sex with her, he'd go ahead and admit with xOw1. Nope. No sex. It wasn't until nearly two months later when I hunted xOw1 down and asked her that she told me they had sex. A few times. With protection.

Keep in mind I haven't seen her since '99. Turns out she lied to. Sex, unprotected. Oral, vaginal, anal (supposedly the anal was protected).

It's not just my story. I've seen it happen predominately here on SI that the WS lies about sex in the A.

My advice, choose to believe him if you will. But get tested regularly for STDs. Your H would be the rare WH that didn't TT. I wouldn't risk it though. And surely not with a pushy OW that lived right next door.


"Being in love" first moved them to promise fidelity: this quieter love enables them to keep the promise. *CS Lewis*

Posts: 11197 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Just a fool in limbo
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 11:40 AM, March 4th (Tuesday)

I can't give you an answer for your situation... but I can say that it's possible. There's a teeny tiny chance.

FWH was pressured for 2 months to make a move on OW. He thought if he could limit it to talk and no touching that he wasn't doing anything wrong. They'd send pictures, use the company IM.... they'd play a game called "If FWH wasn't married, I'd..."

So for this dynamic to function, he convinced himself that he wasn't allowed to touch her. She worked sooooo hard to get him to break that, and at a drunken work party she finally dragged him behind a dumpster and had her way with him.

Why do I believe this? Because the day after it happened he was an ashen zombie, and the day after that he confessed. There was about 2 days of TT, but what really shocked him was that he followed through and "actually" cheated. He couldn't live with himself.

Everything we've learned since then has taught him that he was cheating all along, but at the time he thought he could play without touching... if that makes sense. He just didn't realize that the slope was sending him straight to the place he thought he was too good to go.

I say trust your gut - whether you feel like there's more or whether it makes sense that he had his limits. It's a longshot, but it could happen.

(((OnlyUpp)))


If life is just a series of ridiculous attempts to be alive, you're a hero. - J. Winger

Posts: 17531 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
OnlyUpp
New Member
Member # 38344
Default  Posted: 11:50 AM, March 4th (Tuesday)

We all know of course that the behavior of the cheater is totally unlike their "real" personality in most cases. Obviously they do and say things that under normal circumstances they never would.
All that said, believe it or not my WH really IS a very disciplined man who actually COULD control himself enough not to cross that line.
(Notice I say "could", not necessarily "did")
That is probably the worst part of this for me. He really may be telling the truth and I know if I was constantly being accused of something I knew I didn't do it would be incredibly frustrating.
WH never expresses anything but understanding and kindness, but I don't want to punish him for something he DIDN'T do, only to work through what he DID do...
Make sense?

Posts: 36 | Registered: Feb 2013
norabird
Member
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 11:57 AM, March 4th (Tuesday)

If it does not impact your decision to R whether the sex did or didn't happen, maybe that's the way out--that the answer becomes irrelevant? To free yourself from needing to wonder?


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4190 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
OnlyUpp
New Member
Member # 38344
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, March 4th (Tuesday)

It isn't the sexuality I really need to know about, it's that in order to move forward I need to have the truth. If I don't that that, we have nothing.

Posts: 36 | Registered: Feb 2013
Ostrich80
Member
Member # 34827
Default  Posted: 12:20 PM, March 4th (Tuesday)

He said they usually met for a quick beer on his was home from work somewhere out of our direct area (maybe ten miles away) and then they would sit in his or her car for about five minutes and that was when the kissy face happened.
. This is what makes me think it was more than kissing. There was private time and alcohol involved. Just my opinion but you know him, we don't. He did have opportunity.


BS..me
WS..him
Been with him over half my life
4kid
DD1 10-01-09 DD2 02-12-12 discovered it never ended
OW..nothing special. Just your average skank
Status..#$%@????

Posts: 5066 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: midwest
OnlyUpp
New Member
Member # 38344
Default  Posted: 12:44 PM, March 4th (Tuesday)

Ostrich, I tend to feel the same way at times.
She owns a business and has an office. He told me she more than once suggested they use that space after hours to meet but he didn't have the guts.
I KNOW there were opportunities and I've told him as much...
Here is the thing (and no, I'm not being naive when I say this), my WH would not have initiated ANYTHING. He just never would. She, on the other hand, would do anything she could to get in his pants. So yes, it's hard to believe he didn't give in at some point...
Just because he didn't start it doesn't mean he wasn't a willing participant.

Posts: 36 | Registered: Feb 2013
million tears
Member
Member # 24416
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, March 4th (Tuesday)

I think it could happen the way he is telling it. It could also be a lie. That is the problem with infidelity. It's hard to believe something even if it is the truth.

I know what you mean about the OW being the pursuer. It was the same way in my situation only they went on to have a 2 year A after about 2 years of her coming on to him. Not taking any blame off my WH, it's just the way it was.


2 year LTA-double betrayal, D-day 1-26-2009 and many months of TT. 2 more recent d-days-way overstepped boundaries.

Married 27 years. Together 29.

3 children 24, 21, 14

OW sex addict and romance addict according to MC.


Posts: 1664 | Registered: Jun 2009
gettherefromhere
Member
Member # 22932
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, March 4th (Tuesday)

I think it can be the truth. In my case my fwh admitted to kissing and groping but has consistently stated no sex. We are 5 years out and i have never had any thing give me reason to believe there was sex......even though initially i kept waiting for that to "trickle truth" out. The ow pursued and had major history of pursuing. Her goal was actually money.....she didn't really want sex with him....she came on to him and got him to be kisa to pay her debts.

So, i do believe there can be no sex.

I also know how damaging it was to our marriage and how it changed our dynamics. The lack of sex is not what made me work to reconcile. It was his behavior after dday that made reconciliation possible.


Posts: 503 | Registered: Feb 2009
BtraydWife
Member
Member # 42581
Default  Posted: 1:49 PM, March 4th (Tuesday)

WH really IS a very disciplined man who actually COULD control himself enough not to cross that line.

But he did. He had an affair which is already crossing the line. And he knew at the time he was crossing the line.

The problem with crossing the line, is sometimes when that happens they throw all caution to the wind and do whatever.

I agree with Holly-Isis and Jrazz. Your logical thinking is not what waywards have. So he still has plenty of reasons to lie.

Here is the thing (and no, I'm not being naive when I say this), my WH would not have initiated ANYTHING. He just never would.

It seems that may be true but that's not your husband's failing. He fails to stop things before they cross the line. He goes along like a doormat.

So what I guess you are hoping to believe is that the pushy aggressive slut neighbor didn't really push your husband for more than kissing.

Did you ask if she grabbed his dick through his pants? I call bullshit if he says that didn't happen.

I guess I didn't read your other response very closely because I also have trouble believing someone would drive 10 miles away to sit for 5 minutes and only kiss, then return.

If it meant I had a chance to find out the truth the poly would be a road trip I'd take.

[This message edited by BtraydWife at 1:52 PM, March 4th (Tuesday)]


Me-BW
Him-WH
DD-March 2010
TT for 6 months
Unremorseful for 3.5 years

Delay is the deadliest form of denial. - C. Northcote Parkinson

Your standards aren't up for negotiation just because he/she can't meet them.


Posts: 1762 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
OnlyUpp
New Member
Member # 38344
Default  Posted: 1:56 PM, March 4th (Tuesday)


I think it can be the truth. In my case my fwh admitted to kissing and groping but has consistently stated no sex. We are 5 years out and i have never had any thing give me reason to believe there was sex......even though initially i kept waiting for that to "trickle truth" out. The ow pursued and had major history of pursuing. Her goal was actually money.....she didn't really want sex with him....she came on to him and got him to be kisa to pay her debts.
So, i do believe there can be no sex.

I also know how damaging it was to our marriage and how it changed our dynamics. The lack of sex is not what made me work to reconcile. It was his behavior after dday that made reconciliation possible

And you hit the nail on the head! In reality she is in a miserable marriage plagued by business debt. She is looking for a "sugar daddy" to pay her way out. My WH makes a very good salary as an executive with a well known company. He was never going to leave me for her and he told her as much, which pissed her off.
She was after a the $$ and a quick way out.
Once things were over with my WH, she moved on to a local politician and a popular bar owner. She knew what she was after...


Posts: 36 | Registered: Feb 2013
OnlyUpp
New Member
Member # 38344
Default  Posted: 1:59 PM, March 4th (Tuesday)

Did you ask if she grabbed his dick through his pants? I call bullshit if he says that didn't happen.

Its actually funny (and I mean ironic) that you say that because I said EXACTLY those words to him!!


Posts: 36 | Registered: Feb 2013
whattheh
Member
Member # 40032
Default  Posted: 3:41 PM, March 4th (Tuesday)

Hate to tell you but these OWs tend to be very sexually aggressive. My fWH never initiated but there was sex. If the OW was pushing for it then she was very likely physically accosting him and fact he kept seeing her is telling. These woman literally throw themselves at and on men. Many want the MM for money and use sex to entrap with pregnancy or blackmail.

I would get you both tested for std's including you for hpv. Also just kissing or having oral sex with someone sexually promiscuous can give stds. Hpv and herpes can be caught with exposure to genitals even if no intercourse.

[This message edited by whattheh at 3:47 PM, March 4th (Tuesday)]


BW- mid 50's (me)
fWH-late 50's
M 33 T 35
DD-Early 2013 PA 2010
In R but I have PTSD...

Posts: 545 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 5:49 PM, March 4th (Tuesday)

I might have missed one fact, how did you find out about your H and the neighbor woman?

After hearing so many lies over the years, I learned to pick out oddities from the noise.

The only question I would have is this. If they were sitting in a bar having a beer, why would they end up sitting in car?

I might also wonder was it after dark sitting in the car?


Posts: 4030 | Registered: Jun 2002
OnlyUpp
New Member
Member # 38344
Default  Posted: 6:20 AM, March 5th (Wednesday)

Well, turns out my gut was right.
They both travel for business and he finally admitted there was one time they were both in the same city. (it wasn't planned)
It only happened once (and I believe that) but once was enough for me.
Not sure what I'm going to do now, thinking about filing for divorce...after I get tested for STDs *eyeroll*
Just too numb and sick to think clearly at the moment.
Thanks for all the support, I appreciate it.

Posts: 36 | Registered: Feb 2013
Holly-Isis
Member
Member # 13447
Default  Posted: 7:49 AM, March 5th (Wednesday)

((((OnlyUpp))))

I'm sorry he turned out to be so typical. TT sucks and it spits in the face of the gift of another chance at the M.


"Being in love" first moved them to promise fidelity: this quieter love enables them to keep the promise. *CS Lewis*

Posts: 11197 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: Just a fool in limbo
Ostrich80
Member
Member # 34827
Default  Posted: 3:36 AM, March 6th (Thursday)

The only question I would have is this. If they were sitting in a bar having a beer, why would they end up sitting in car?

I might also wonder was it after dark sitting in the car?

Hmmm Craig, I missed this..good point


BS..me
WS..him
Been with him over half my life
4kid
DD1 10-01-09 DD2 02-12-12 discovered it never ended
OW..nothing special. Just your average skank
Status..#$%@????

Posts: 5066 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: midwest
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 7:17 AM, March 6th (Thursday)

I only thought of this because that is how my fWW and the OM had their fun after work at the start of the affair. Bar for beer and then the parking lot.

Looking back, I could almost sense a change at the beginning of the affair after the change from Daylight Savings Time to Standard time. What fun, it is dark an hour earlier now after work.


Posts: 4030 | Registered: Jun 2002
OnlyUpp
New Member
Member # 38344
Default  Posted: 9:07 AM, March 7th (Friday)

I ratted her out to her husband.
He is hurt of course, but not really surprised.
As I mentioned earlier, we had both suspected for quite a long time...

[This message edited by OnlyUpp at 9:08 AM, March 7th (Friday)]


Posts: 36 | Registered: Feb 2013
NeverAgain2013
Member
Member # 38121
Default  Posted: 12:16 PM, March 7th (Friday)

So in essence, he really has no reason to lie about it. He knows it wouldn't make things any different.

Trust me, he knows it would make things a LOT different if you knew.

Schedule the poly.

Today.


Be careful - that 'knight in shining armor' may very well be nothing more than an assclown wrapped in tin foil.
ME: 50+ years old and cute as a button :-)
Ex-WBF: Just a lying, cheating, gravy-sucking pig - and I left him in 2012.

Posts: 1765 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: USA
NeverAgain2013
Member
Member # 38121
Default  Posted: 12:25 PM, March 7th (Friday)

Awww, I just saw your last post after I'd posted about scheduling a poly.

I hate to say it, but the overwhelming majority who believe it was only an EA end up eventually finding out it was physical. I'm not surprised at all to hear it.

Most people seem to be only as honest as their options.

Trickle truth sucks and please know that you still more than likely didn't get the whole truth. You might finally pull it out of him months down the road or maybe even years. "We did it ONCE" usually means ten times and "TWICE" usually means 50. Ugh.

Sending you strength.


Be careful - that 'knight in shining armor' may very well be nothing more than an assclown wrapped in tin foil.
ME: 50+ years old and cute as a button :-)
Ex-WBF: Just a lying, cheating, gravy-sucking pig - and I left him in 2012.

Posts: 1765 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: USA
Topic Posts: 32