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User Topic: Why I hate SI and sex right now
GraceRunner
New Member
Member # 39856
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, March 6th (Thursday)

Thereís a thread on Reconciliation by blakesteele. Heís my BS.

Itís up to 3 pages so far.

Itís really interesting.

It describes how my BS is really, really wonderful. He is ďworking SO hardĒ, he is ďposting & posting & postingĒ, and many ďwish we had a BS like himĒ.

It says that I am full of shit. That I need to ďfix my shitĒ and that I should be tested for hormonal imbalances.

Itís presence there encapsulates everything wrong with my marriage.

For the 20 years we have been together sexually, only in the past year has BH Oíed inside me. For 18 years I told him how this left me so confused and hurt. I felt inadequate. Sex was just an act, not a means of growing closer. I voiced this many, many times. BH told me it was fine, he was fine, I just needed to stop worrying about it.

I do not have a low sex drive. I very much want and desire sex. I initiate probably 30-40% of the time. At times in our marriage I have initiated just as much as he has, sometimes more. When he does initiate I usually donít reject him. I love him and I want to be close to him.

I suggested a break in sex because it continues to be a source of emotional pain to me. I feel distant and detached from him completely during and after. And emotionally that hurts. Sometimes I think ďthis must be what a hooker feels likeĒ. I suggested the break because it has been like this for years for me. I continued to push past it and just do it, hoping things would get better, hoping that by having more sex it would fix it somehow. At this point I donít know if itís negative association, years of hurt, my own wall, but the feeling of disconnect is still there. I was hopeful that a defined, purposeful break might ďresetĒ something? Hell, I donít know. I do know that what weíre doing isnít changing anything for me.

2 different therapists, books, friends, family Ė ALL tell me that I need to let him in, open myself up to him, share my feelings, fears, thoughts, emotions and that will lead to an intimacy that is reflected in our marriage bed.

2 different therapists, books, friends, family Ė ALL tell him that he needs to create a safe space for me to share my feelings. That when I share my deepest fears or hurts it is a sign of trust and vulnerability and he should guard them and show me they are safe with him and that he understands me.

So 2 nights ago I suggest that maybe a break or ďfastĒ from sex would help.
1.5 hours later I ask to put the discussion on hold until morning. I donít have a ďstrategyĒ in place which he has demanded nor do I have lots of research or case studies to back up what Iím asking for. I asked from a place of hurt and loneliness. From someone searching for answers and desperate to improve things. Instead I leave the conversation feeling condemned and fed up.

3 hours later it is a topic on SI.

8 hours later it has 40 responses, most of which condemn me for being a sexless, bullshitting WS.

I do not care what perfect strangers have to say about me. I am learning to own my feelings, to protect my emotions from others who would say they are wrong. I am learning to give myself a voice in ways I didnít know I could. I am FIGHTING for my feelings to be a part of this marriage. I am FIGHTING like hell for a chance to be heard and understood. To not be emotionally railroaded or emotionally condemned.

I do care that my feelings aren't valued by my BH. Strangers or not, anonymous internet or not, they are MY feelings. I shared them with MY husband. I trusted him to listen to me, to hear me, try to understand my hurt, to show me that he would guard them and that we would work together to do things to strengthen our marriage. I care that while I am doing my part in opening up and taking risks in saying things that are hard to say, that could cause fights Ė he is not doing his part.

I am repeatedly criticized for not sharing my feelings. For not opening up and telling him my emotions. Iím told Iím bad, bad, BAD for being so closed off.

Do you know what I am realizing? I DO share my feelings, I DO open up.

He is not listening. He will consult books, SI, counselors, friends, family. But he will NOT listen to me.

I am standing here, with my heart layed open, begging him to stop, to slow down, to hear me. He is running in circles around me, looking up, down, left right, everywhere but right at me.

I do not hate SI for the support it offers people, including BH and me. But I hate SI for being another tool for my BH to tromp on my feelings instead of guarding them. I hate it for being a place that helps him dismiss and condemn the very feelings he supposedly wants to treasure.

I do not hate sex for the act or the pleasure or the supposed closeness it can bring. I hate it for being another way Iím failing. I hate it for being the biggest sign of how very far BH and I are from each other.


Me - FWW, 38
Him - BS, 42
Married 15 years
2 young daughters
4 month EA/PA, DDAY 10/12

Posts: 39 | Registered: Jul 2013
SadInNC
Member
Member # 42170
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, March 6th (Thursday)

I'm not supposed to reply on the WS threads, but I want to give you a hug:

((((((GraceRunner))))))


BS/Me WH/Him

"Your value doesn't decrease based on someone's inability to see your worth." -Unknown Wise Person


Posts: 345 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: North Carolina, United States
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Default  Posted: 10:29 AM, March 6th (Thursday)

SadinNC...

The only time a BS can't reply in this forum is if its a thread using the Red stop sign icon.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 10:30 AM, March 6th (Thursday)]


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 198293 | Registered: May 2002
brokensmile322
Member
Member # 35758
Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, March 6th (Thursday)

((Gracerunner))

BS here and no stop signÖ.

Hugs! And nice to meet you, finally.

I am sorry for your pain. I can empathize a bit as I, too, feel my WH does not hear me or listen to me. It really does hurt and there are time that I look at him and wonder if he will ever hear me and understand.

I have told blakesteele that he doesn't state your feelings in his posts and, although I understand it, it makes it really hard to give him accurate opinions. We are all guessing at your thoughts which is not fair. I am sorry if I hurt you.

Surely, the never O'ing inside you, would be hurtful. I can feel your pain.

Thank you for coming to SI and for posting. We all care for Blakesteele and for you as wellÖ. You are one of the couples that we are all routing for.

Thank you for clarifying that the sex is a source of emotional pain for you and that after you feel empty, like a prostitute. That statement alone says that there must be deeper things at play, for both of you, than just needing a hormone screening or bit of foreplay.

When there are two members who are married on SI, some have found it helpful not to read each other's posts. I am glad you are here and hope you will continue to post. No one thinks you are bad. You are human like the rest of us and now we can support you as well.

Hugs!


Me BS 42 Him WS 44
OW Coworker DDay April 7, 2012
EA on a slippery slope...

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Viktor Frankl

"When you are happy, you can forgive a great deal."


Posts: 1542 | Registered: Jun 2012
SisterMilkshake
Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 10:39 AM, March 6th (Thursday)

I am sorry, GraceRunner, it sounds as though you are really distraught right now. I can understand why.

I am someone who posted on your BH's thread. I didn't say anything negative about you. Many others didn't either, but I can understand how if even one person sounds negative about you how it may color what the other response's look like.

I do have negative feelings about the sexual fast. I see where you are coming from when you mentioned it to your BH. I just don't feel this is going to promote sexual intimacy. That is why I made the suggestions I did. I feel like you both need to "woo" each other. Maybe not have intercourse, but be sexual. KWIM?

How was Retrouvaille for you? If there is anything that can bring you closer and knock down walls, I feel it is Retrouvaille. However, it doesn't sound like it worked in that way for you.

Yes, the problem with SI is that we oftentimes only read one side of the "story". We can only give support and advice on what is being posted. We have no way of knowing how the other spouse (or people) maybe feeling or their perspective.

FWIW, I feel you have some very valid concerns here. I don't know how you are going to get over your feeling of disconnection. Are you in IC?


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9799 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
strongerdaybyday
Member
Member # 40264
Default  Posted: 10:41 AM, March 6th (Thursday)

Another BS here.

Your BH sounds like my own father. My mom cheated and even though he forgave her he's made her life hard ever since. Not valuing her feelings and making her feel stupid and small. What kind of R is that if a WS is truely remorseful but a BS feels like they can do or say what they want because they feel it will never be worse then whatever a WS did.

Sorry you're going through this. I hope you can both work through the pain and have a stronger marriage because of this.

(((HUGS)))

[This message edited by strongerdaybyday at 10:41 AM, March 6th (Thursday)]


Me-BW Him - WH
Married 6 years, together 13+ years
D-Day Summer 2013
children-3
If it is what it is then what is it?

**If I edit I'm correcting a typo!**


Posts: 384 | Registered: Aug 2013
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, March 6th (Thursday)

(((Gracerunner)))

SI is a tricky thing. We almost never do a good job of getting the whole story out, and that means that there are going to be a lot of responses biased towards limited information.

Another complicated aspect is that if members are triggering due to the topic, their response is likely to have a more judgmental tone.

I sometimes come here to vent about an interaction that Crazz and I have had, only to realize that I feel really defensive about some of the responders solutions or assumptions, and it's my fault because I'm not painting a big enough picture.

I read blakesteele's original post, and it sounded like he was trying to take ownership for some of your feelings and then asking if other members have had experience with this.

It's been MY experience that a FWS asking to step away from physical intimacy has been a big trigger for many here, and may not make the best group conversation. I want to encourage you two to seek out a third party that you trust(therapist, clergy, doctor) to get your feelings out and help steer your interactions to a healing place for both of you.

Keep sharing your feelings with him, and don't let anyone tell you differently. Open dialog is critical in any marriage and you are entitled to your feelings as well. To me, it sounds like he is trying to listen. I'd tell him that the responses to his posts sound hurtful because you feel misunderstood. Hopefully he's ok with working directly with you through this. I think he will be, as long as he feels like you are trying to meet him.


Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it. - FranÁois-Marie Arouet

Posts: 17840 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 10:47 AM, March 6th (Thursday)

Hey sweetie, another BS here. I don't reply to many of Blake's posts, but I read them.

My husband is a SA in recovery. In addition to his affairs, he spent years lost in porn and compulsive masturbation.

That kills sexual intimacy. I know exactly what it feels like to feel lime a prostitute, a receptacle. To be used for sex, but know I could be anyone.

Actually in porn recovery programs a sexual fasting is highly recommended. If I remember correctly, he's read every man's battle? Or done a weekend work shop? If not, encourage it. They recommend an abstinence period. To rebuild intimacy WITHOUT sex.

I also know what it feels like to not have your husband finish inside of you. It's killed me, emotionally. He became so desensitized he couldn't with out visual stimulation, or dirty talk. Which cheapened me more.

I understand completely. PM me if you need to talk more.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
BrokenButTrying
Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 10:50 AM, March 6th (Thursday)

(((GR))))

I haven't read your BH's thread but I feel for you, it sounds like a difficult situation.

I think sometimes BS forget that they need to listen to their WS pain, fears and worries too.

It takes two people to R. You cannot sacrifice yourself to make R possible. Even if you are the WS you are still a person with feelings and needs.

Can you show this thread to Blakesteele? He obviously finds a lot of comfort on SI, perhaps he would hear you better through the words in your thread?


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/2010 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1248 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
sadone29
Member
Member # 38597
Default  Posted: 10:51 AM, March 6th (Thursday)

Hi,

No stop sign, so I hope it's okay that I respond.

H and I have had sexual problems throughout our M. He is SA, with porn being the main addiction. For us, we had to take a break while he got sober. That's what was right for us. No one can tell you what's right for you two though.

H has never been able to O with me alone. Ever. It's part of his sexual problem, which he is still working on. I too felt distant whenever we had sex, so I eventually stopped wanting to do it. He was pursuing other things and I felt pushed away. We made up these stories that I had a low drive, he had a high one. I began to believe in all these lies. It was a mess. We were in a completely sexless marriage for years.

I went to read your BH's thread before responding. I hope it's okay that I mention God, since he spoke about it. My H went from being Athiest, to learning to turn things over to God. I too was looking everywhere, trying to figure everything out. H patiently went on with his healing, waiting to see what I would eventually do.

I have joined him. I look to him now, and as much as I can, I try to turn things over to God. When I finally did that, things changed dramatically. Sex is starting to take its rightful place. It's not a huge issue, but just one more way to express the connection we share.

Maybe it would help to ask God if this break would help or hinder the healing process?


DDay Feb. 28, 2013
"I am pretty sure enforcing the boundary is the most important part of the boundary"- Jerry Seinfeld

Posts: 769 | Registered: Mar 2013
Autumn22
New Member
Member # 41810
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, March 6th (Thursday)

{{{hugs}}}

I am relatively new here, but I believe your H is recovering from a porn "problem" - not sure if you or he uses the term addiction or not.

My h is a recovering SA/PA. I can absolutely relate to your description of cold sex. For many years, it felt as if h was merely using me as a masturbatory tool. Since he had never been able to experience sex as a shared intimacy, he was completely unable to hear me when I would express frustration about our sex life. He couldn't listen to or hear me because I was speaking a language he had never learned.

For years, he was less and less able to achieve O through normal intercourse. Regardless of the whys, I felt disconnected from him, especially during sex, and horrible about my own desirability. It wears you down!

There is something called sexual reintegration therapy, that can help couples rebuild (or build for the first time) healthy intimacy and a healthy sexual relationship. Our CSAT told us that would be enormously helpful...down the road.

But first, h needed to reboot his nervous system around sexual response. In order to do that, he needs to be completely abstinent (no sex, fantasy, masturbation, nada) for a minimum of 60 days, and 6 months was recommended.

I admire your innate ability to figure out that you need to take a break and reboot. Many, many, many "experts" would give you the same advice you knew automatically for yourself. I'm sorry that BS wasn't able to hear how this was not a ploy to stay distant, but rather a plea for the positive changes you long for. Porn/sex addiction is really the result of a profound intimacy issue/disorder. Clearly, you are in pain and suffering from the lack of intimacy in your physical relationship, which causes all sorts of horrible feelings.

I'm so sorry you are feeling ganged up on and that you haven't been heard by the person who you need the most to hear you.
I can't send pm yet but I know this rodeo well so please feel free to reach out to me if you think it could help.

Again, many hugs!


Me: BW 45
Him: PA/SA in recovery 42
Married in 2000
Multiple DDs - gory details now in profile

Posts: 41 | Registered: Dec 2013
Gotmegood
Member
Member # 41407
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, March 6th (Thursday)

Grace-
I think you bring up a good point, that although the internet is fairly anonymous, perhaps there are shared pieces of a person's heart that should be for one person's ears only.
Many BS's begin here in a horrible place. Bewildered, as hurt as never experienced before, and grabbing at the life raft that SI provides. BS's initially share everything, because here's a venue with lots of people experiencing the same emotions and predicaments. Much of the pain involves intimate subject matter too difficult to bring up with people IRL. But when a couple chooses to try to R, and trust and vulnerability and specialness become headline issues, maybe permission should be asked before sharing with the SI community, or even therapists.
Blake is a big sharer. He posts a lot. I assume he does this to sift through all the feedback he receives from his posts. Uses it to analyze and look at his sitch from fresh perspectives. And since you shared that until the last year he never orgasmed inside of you (whatever that is all about), it seems that you recognize that he is okay with sharing private 'stuff' in a public place, although anonymous. Since you feel differently, he should respect that.


Me: faithful wife 62.
Him: WH 64 , prostitute 20 yr old
DDay: 8-13-2013
Status: boinging up and down like a yo-yo

Posts: 482 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Florida
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, March 6th (Thursday)

Also, I'd recommend looking for a S-Anon group in your area. You'd find a lot of support and resources there. It can be very valuable, even if Blake doesn't go to a SA group.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
SadInNC
Member
Member # 42170
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, March 6th (Thursday)

Since I'm allowed to respond, I will.

8 hours later it has 40 responses, most of which condemn me for being a sexless, bullshitting WS.

OUCH. That has got to hurt. You have now spoken up for yourself. I think you needed to do that. For yourself - and for your H to see. Nobody else matters, frankly.

I am FIGHTING for my feelings to be a part of this marriage. I am FIGHTING like hell for a chance to be heard and understood.

Maybe writing them down like this is the best way to communicate with him about your relationship right now. Some people (and I am one of them) are able to express themselves better when they write. If your H likes this kind of communication, it might help. Try a notebook at home with him.

He is not listening. He will consult books, SI, counselors, friends, family. But he will NOT listen to me.

I think you just got his attention.

It sound like the two of you really want to make this work. I am rooting for you guys!!!


BS/Me WH/Him

"Your value doesn't decrease based on someone's inability to see your worth." -Unknown Wise Person


Posts: 345 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: North Carolina, United States
overandone
Member
Member # 39162
Default  Posted: 11:13 AM, March 6th (Thursday)

Another BS here. I've read some of your H's thread but to be honest I felt that everything, including yourself,is being over-analysed to the nth degree and I gave up. I think someone else suggested he just relax and stop doing this, to which I concur. It's as if he's watching your every move. The posts made me feel very uncomfortable, and I can sympathise with :-

"I am repeatedly criticized for not sharing my feelings. For not opening up and telling him my emotions. Iím told Iím bad, bad, BAD for being so closed off.

Do you know what I am realizing? I DO share my feelings, I DO open up.

He is not listening. He will consult books, SI, counselors, friends, family. But he will NOT listen to me.

I am standing here, with my heart layed open, begging him to stop, to slow down, to hear me. He is running in circles around me, looking up, down, left right, everywhere but right at me."

If that's the case that's some tough shit to take.
My H thought I had a low sex drive too, in fact I was starting to wonder if I had. But the last few years where we've relaxed and enjoyed each others' company, sex happens with no effort. There's no issue there any more, I enjoy it with him now that we're in a good place in the rest of our lives, it's like the icing on the cake after a good day. I enjoy it because there's no pressure, no asking why we weren't doing it more often. I can imagine how hurtful it would be if your H never used to O inside you, for him to tell you it was fine and forget it means he wasn't listening to you.

"I am standing here, with my heart layed open, begging him to stop, to slow down, to hear me. He is running in circles around me, looking up, down, left right, everywhere but right at me." Judging from this, a break from SI might be as valuable if not more so than a break from sex.
((((GraceRunner)))


Me - BW (54)
Him - fWS (61)
kiddies - daughters 22 and 27,son 22,
d-day - April 18 2012
R - but lots of bumps in the long road

Posts: 229 | Registered: May 2013 | From: uk
JustWow
Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 11:13 AM, March 6th (Thursday)

Welcome, and I am simply going to ditto what Kelaney said.

There needs to be a better building of the emotional intimacy for you, it sounds like. Me, too , btw. Sexual intimacy, for me, needs to be an extension of the emotional intimacy that already exists. And if you are being vulnerable and explaining behavior to him that is hurtful (O'ing outside) and he disregards it, I would not be feeling the emotional connection either, if I were you.

We have an MC who specializes in treating recovering SA's and their spouses. Maybe working that route could help you both.


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3630 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
Lucky2HaveMe
Member
Member # 13333
Default  Posted: 11:21 AM, March 6th (Thursday)

I don't really know your whole story either

BrokenButTrying: I think sometimes BS forget that they need to listen to their WS pain, fears and worries too.

This really rings true for me. One of our biggest steps in R was when I realized my H was hurting too. Now that didn't happen immediately, but when I realized he was hurting and really doing the work he needed to do, my being able to show empathy and support him through the ugliness was a major step in our healing.


Indian wisdom says our lives are rivers. We are born somewhere small and quiet and we move toward a place we cannot see, but only imagine. From Tending Roses

Posts: 6559 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: WNY
Faithful w/Love
Member
Member # 33128
Default  Posted: 11:42 AM, March 6th (Thursday)

((((GR))))
Everything you stated, I could actually state myself on the sex part and not being listened to.

I hope this all changes for you two. We are all cheering you on!

I think it took great courage for you to post your feeling here and now you have been heard and I pray he HEARD YOU!


BS(ME)40 WH(HIM)38
DD 20 and DS 15
Separated Aug 2012
Moved back home Oct 31 2013
Separated again June 2014. Heading toward divorce.
False R. Still Lying.

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is all you have left"


Posts: 2791 | Registered: Aug 2011
olwen
Member
Member # 39759
Default  Posted: 11:50 AM, March 6th (Thursday)

Another BS here, I just want to send you huge hug (((gracerunner))) You two really are a couple I am totally rooting for!

You both seem to be trying so hard, to truly care for each other and you seem lovely people - both of you!

Hopefully reading each other's posts may help. I often post stuff that is going on in my head and later I get my fwh to read them, sometimes it must sting but he likes to keep up with how I am really doing and my posts give a starting point for a chat. I also share some relevant threads I see with him. It really helps us BUT fhw doesn't post anymore. He tried a couple of times and it's just not his thing, he hates writing things out cos he always comes across wrong, even when I read his posts I think oops you didn't mean to say that, it sounds sooo wrong, but there I go again, off on a tangent. My point is he got some flack too for not caring enough to post, tbh he has been too busy showing me he loves me and cos he works long hours I would rather his time go on me, he is still doing the work but with me instead of on here. Although he had read the healing library from cover to cover.

Sometimes people see things from only one side, or from their perspective and experiences but it can be hard to give, or get, a full picture.

I can imagine how you feel. I have never been against porn until his affair, as long as I didn't see him or what he was looking at I didn't worry, even used it myself occasionally but fwh was really into it. When we met he still had pics from mucky mags up on his bedroom wall, he still lived at home, and that REALLY bothered me cos I couldn't turn a blind eye to it. Trying to make love to your new boyfriend surrounded by those images ( I was 17) drove me to distraction and I still feel inferior now, but that's my issue tbf. I 'accidentally' ripped one pic off the wall with my foot once - oops. I was more bothered by his stash of porn then but later when I developed problems of my own due to medication I stopped caring and just let porn do my job for me so to speak. Really not healthy. The affair followed after years of this.

When I finally got the medical profession to listen and change my meds, we found we had a problem. He had more and more difficulty o'ing. I did some research and read up on 'the death grip' grasping too firmly while masturbating. I know it's not the same as your situation but after his A I was devastated when he couldn't finish with me.

After the A he had already given up porn altogether off his own back. After seeing how cheap and nasty sex can be with the wrong person he just went right off it. Me too tbh. I couldn't look at it without imagining him with his ow. After the A the last thing i wanted him doing was looking at other women like that. So we talked and he decided to try giving up masturbation too and found he didn't need it at all. Lo and behold and the problem was fixed. I know I wasn't the problem as I have never given birth naturally and - sorry if tmi - but during exams nurses/dr's have pointed this fact out to me when they struggle a bit with me during exams, so I know there was nothing wrong with me. It was purely his death grip from years of practice !

This is probably all waffle, I am doing two things at once lol I just wanted you to know you have been heard and we do understand.

Take care


Together 19yrs
me BS 36
him WS 41 (silent lucidity)
ea 1 facebook flirting with an ex 2011
ea/pa - co worker 6wks feb to apr2013 pa for 1 wk with sex one time
too much tt to count = latest tt 30/7/14

Posts: 804 | Registered: Jul 2013
DixieD
Member
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 12:20 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

GraceRunner, I haven't read your husband's thread.

I can relate to the O situation you mentioned. It was linked to years of porn use, which your husband has also admitted to. I give him credit for seeing he had a problem and wanting to correct it. Plus, for not accepting PM's from female SI members. IMO, that's smart.

He's popular on SI and has quite a lot of 'admirers'. You sound resentful and rightfully so, with years of not feeling intimacy. It must also sting to have females in particular on SI who are quick to praise your husband. I know when I was resentful of my husband, it seemed like the world was telling me how awesome he was and that just frustrated me even more.

I was quick to take the blame for our sex-life and for a lot of other things. I was unaware of my husband's 20 year porn addiction. I had a lot of resentment once I realized that, because instead of me being the problem, a huge part should have fallen on him too. As is often the case in any relationship. But it also explained a lot and nice to know that it wasn't all on me or even about me.

I also have walls (high ones) that I had to work on. We both had intimacy problems, I just voiced more concerns and was dismissed and allowed myself to be silenced and take the blame. I was angry at myself for allowing that to happen too. There is a lot of anger and resentment and shame to work through on both sides of the fence and it doesn't happen over night.

It's hard to be sexual with someone you've lived with for a long time and you feel emotionally disconnected from, or when you feel not being listened to or respected or just being used. It becomes drudgery and a task.

Building the emotional connection and communication helps the sexual stuff. Coming clean and talking about our feelings in depth, plus most importantly really listening to each other and not withholding secrets has helped my husband and I greatly. Our whole relationship, including the sexual aspects have transformed.

Keep talking, especially about your sex-life. Not just what is not working with it.

There is nothing I've posted on SI that I didn't either discuss first with my husband or that him and I haven't already discussed. It's not a secret. Maybe you both need to discuss your boundaries as far as SI goes.

Good luck with everything.

[This message edited by DixieD at 12:24 PM, March 6th (Thursday)]


Growing forward

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2011
41andthankful
Member
Member # 38650
Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

I can completely empathize with you. Sex with no intimacy is something I am sadly familiar with. I used to tell my WH I felt like a blow up doll. I am sorry for what you are going through. I pray it all gets better. Hugs.

Posts: 242 | Registered: Mar 2013
spond
Member
Member # 41686
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

Here is a 2x4 made of balsa wood

For god's sake.. both you and blake, put the tools that you learned in Retrouvaille to good use. And not just for the daily routine, practice the key points in everyday. Texting, emailing, etc. You don't have to only use them for the "Daily Retro Routine".

My wife and I started using them right away. If either of you two need a "Retro" ear to listen, either of you PM me.

We are all in both of your corners, one day you two will share the same corner.

I'd cross post this into his thread, but I'm sure he will read this as well.


BH(me) | fWW
2 Kids - Married 2002
D-Day TT & EA | D-Day #2 PA
Reconciling

Posts: 413 | Registered: Dec 2013
heartbroken0903
Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 1:27 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

Disclaimer: I have not read any of the replies to this thread. I just want to post my experience.

At this point in time, I AM a "sexless WS." I have almost zero desire. Almost all of the time that sex crosses my mind, I feel repulsed. Not by my XH, but by the idea of having sex itself. This is the first time I have said that so plainly. And considering how sexual I used to be, I'm sure some would consider me to be a "bullshitting WS" but that's fine.

For me it's a combination of a medical condition dx'd 3 years ago, the meds I take for it, and a highly physical, long-hours job. Quite frankly, there are many things I'd rather do with my extremely limited free time than have sex.

Point is, it's a shame that for a former WS, all sexual problems are automatically thought to be "B.S." or not worthy of being considered valid or being taken seriously due to the fact that at a different point in time, we had a sexual affair. (Disclaimer #2: I have not read all of the replies on your H's thread either.)


Me: XWS, 30s, 5-month EA/PA in '09-'10
Husband: XBS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Remarried.


Posts: 2231 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
bionicgal
Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

Gracerunner, you are totally one of the bravest people that I (don't really) know. So glad you posted, said your peace, and shared how you are feeling.

Sex without connection led me to feel similarly "used" prior to dday - it was the most difficult part of my and my H's relationship. For me, this was because that emotional connection was missing. Somehow we seem to have found it, and it was largely through reading, talking, being vulnerable, and trial and error. It is still something we are working on every day.

I don't have the magic bullet. . . I wish I did. You guys are a couple so many people are pulling for. It helps me to remember that all the posts here always come from an individual point of view - all we can do is bring our own baggage, experience and viewpoints to other people's issues, that we have an imperfect view on.

I can see where you might be upset that your viewpoint wasn't understood, and was speculated on, and I am glad you decided to chime in rather than just be angry about it. I think you'll find you have a lot of people here hoping to offer assistance and support.


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is a personal crisis, not a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 2062 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
GraceRunner
New Member
Member # 39856
Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

I don't read all of his threads. Everything he posts on SI I have already heard so it's never a surprise. At times though I am surprised (and frustrated) by the topic particularly if it's very personal or seems to be a twisted version. I understand we all have our own interpretations and my "story" wouldn't be the same as his.

So at times I have had to step completely away from SI or limit myself to the Wayward board because I can't take it. He would accuse me of not caring about his thoughts so it has become a delicate balance of showing him I care enough to read his threads and protecting my own feelings by not reading them.

I really don't mind all the praise or "admirers' he gets. He IS a good man. A wonderful, kind and loving husband. He is working so hard and has forgiven me for a lot. I love him and I appreciate the support SI has been for him. In real life, too, people love him and he is the type of friend that anyone would be lucky to have. As far as the women offering him that praise Ė Iím ok with. He does have the rule in place of no messaging women which I greatly appreciate. This happened after one woman was getting a bit too personal with him (which he shared with me). Occasionally even now a woman will message him and ask him to break his rule ďjust for herĒ. Usually for a few weeks after that I have a really big grudge against SI.

What I do mind is telling him what I need and then hearing from him that I must need something else because SI members told him so. And I do mind hearing that he is working so hard but itís on everything except the one thing I need the most, which is to be heard and understood. I donít want him to turn to SI to understand me and I donít want other members trying to interpret my feelings or motivations. I realize I have little choice in this matter though and I try to come to peace with it but sometimes Iíll admit I donít feel too peaceful about it.

SisterMilkshake, Retrouvaille was really wonderful. It helped me own my feelings even more and showed me ways to be able to share them. It is one of the ways I found the courage to talk about this sex-break with my BH. I didnít do the dialoguing well though and should have had this conversation with him using more of those tools. I still have work to do with this. Iím not currently in IC.

Thanks, spond, for the 2x4. I can see now that I expected him to practice his part of listening really well and hearing my emotions. But I didnít start out the right way with sharing my feelings and making sure I expressed them so he could understand them and not feel attacked.

Sadone29, I am praying. I pray to have the wisdom to make the right decisions and to be open and honest. Iím talking to my pastor and a few other trusted friends who are spiritually strong and have grown much more than I when it comes to walking with God. Their advice was to be open, honest, tell your husband what you need. Tell him you love him and want to heal this part of your marriage.

For everyone that has dealt with porn/MB in their marriage, thank you. I so appreciate hearing Iím not alone with this. I have been so confused for so many years and have struggled silently with it. Iíll look into the SA recovery programs since it sounds like some of that may apply and be useful. I guess I just havenít really looked at how subtly or deeply it could have damaged things and so I donít know how to fix things. Iím really at a loss of what to do or where to turn next. Iíll also PM a few of you that offered Ė thank you for reaching out.


Me - FWW, 38
Him - BS, 42
Married 15 years
2 young daughters
4 month EA/PA, DDAY 10/12

Posts: 39 | Registered: Jul 2013
Neverwudaguessed
Member
Member # 41884
Default  Posted: 1:54 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

I read you husband's posts often, and I understand some members' points regarding his introspection being overwhelming, but I have always been struck by what clearly comes across each time he posts which is how much love he has, and what a strong desire he has to make this work. All of his analyzing and introspection is in the effort to figure things out so that the two of you can overcome and fine peace together.

It seems that there has been something not conveyed in the analyzation. It is hard to be able to portray the whole story; both sides. This came out clearly in your post. You so want, need AND deserve to be heard. I hope he reads your post and sees things from your POV. What you say makes perfect sense from the outside, I hope he can take a step back and look at what you are saying so that he can work towards making you feel like you have been heard by him. You have certainly been heard by us here now. There are a few issues here; one seems to be how one perceives intimacy; the act of sex itself being the "thing" which creates the feeling of intimacy vs the need for intimacy (emotional) prior to the act of sex in order for the act of sex to feel intimate. Not much was shared in your post regarding his reaction when you shared why no O during actual intercourse was so hurtful. (Of course you are entitled to keep that for yourself!) But did that realization and your vulnerable confession of this hurt cause him to change it to help create that sense of intimacy for you? The other issue relates to the dynamics in your marriage with a variety of issues; when you voice your feelings, they are being addressed in a manner which makes you feel like you need to pull them back and protect them from your Husband. I am sure this is NOT the effect he wants to have on your sharing; it seems very apparent that he wants to have intimacy with you that comes from sharing and being vulnerable with each other. Here may be where the counselor can help the two of you move forward. Maybe you can bring both posts in to the session and have him/her help you get through it.

I, and I think we all, want so much for the two of you to heal and be happy. If love and desire to stay together alone were enough, you two would be a sure thing. Please don't lose sight of the fact that his desire to heal keeps him motivated to seek help here, as misguided and one-sided as it may be. I may have oversimplified things; I certainly do not know your marriage at all and do not want to offend you by pretending to know that has happened between you, but I do feel like I know enough to say that it is so clear that you are both so hurt, and BOTH want to make this work. HUGS to you.

[This message edited by Neverwudaguessed at 2:47 PM, March 6th (Thursday)]


BW: 44 Me
WH:48
DDay1 9-9-13 (18th Wedding Anniversary) 6 wk EA, 1 wk PA
DDay2: 10-25-13 EA/PA with same OW 12 1/2 years ago for 3 months
OW: XGF Predator who never stopped pursuing WH
DS 13
DD 11

Posts: 642 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York
MissesJai
Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

thank you for sharing your side, Grace. It's so beneficial. I don't have much to offer but I will say that I can definitely relate to this:
the one thing I need the most, which is to be heard and understood
this is an ongoing issue for me as well, even though we've R'd.


FWW - 41
"Don't think first about the risks of speaking up. Think first about the risks of not speaking up." ~ Kerry Patterson

Posts: 5976 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
DixieD
Member
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 2:31 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

Occasionally even now a woman will message him and ask him to break his rule ďjust for herĒ. Usually for a few weeks after that I have a really big grudge against SI.

People will push boundaries everywhere. That's why it's so important to stay firm with your own.

I didnít do the dialoguing well though and should have had this conversation with him using more of those tools.

Grace, dialoguing takes practice (and lots of it). It's not something that people easily grasp, especially if they've had problems distinguishing between feelings and thoughts in the past.

When my husband and I don't find time to dialogue I find I will easily fall back into not being able to identify feelings, detach and not be able to express them. And then it's hard to get back into the practice of it again. Keep at it.

Definitely look into how the porn use affected you, not just what it did to him.


Growing forward

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2011
TrulySad
Member
Member # 39652
Default  Posted: 2:43 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

Grace, I've read your H's posts, and my WBF has read them. They've actually opened up conversations we've had in private. It really is so nice to finally hear your side, and in a way meet you.

I know I am labeled as a BGF here on SI. But in all honesty, I am not here as one. I'm here because I've been affected by adultery, and all the pain that comes with it. I just want help and at times support. I look at all of us as in this together. Yep, there are times where I want to lash out at a wayward...but that's my personal pain coming through. My head reminds me that we can all learn from each other, and how horrible this is for everyone involved.

Your post really hit home for me. The few times my WBF has posted, he's received replies that made me want to scream. I wanted to go to those people and "tattle" on how he was FOS, and give them the real scoop.

Instead, I went to him and reminded HIM of what he left out. The way I look at it...if he really wants honest help, he will think before he starts typing. And when people respond, I hope he looks at their response as possibly jaded to their own experiences.

When I read you H's posts, you ran through my mind quite often. One in particular, about the Every Man's Battle book. I've suffered through a number of relationships where porn was a painful issue. And today, after my WBF's lies and his porn issues, I feel almost dead inside when it comes to sex. I did read your H's recent post about sex, and what you were considering. I didn't respond because I have no advice. I'm at as much of a loss as you are.

And today, reading what you wrote, all I can say is your position is absolutely in my mind. And while I know many have responded to what he has written, please know there are many who rooting for the two of you. And most of us realize there are two sides to every story.

I really do wish you luck, and encourage you to keep posting.


Me: Sad, but I will survive

True Love: What I have for my beautiful children.


Posts: 455 | Registered: Jun 2013
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 2:59 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

Hey Gracerunner, I have responded to your H many times with no solid answers or direction but just wanting him to know he has been heard - essentially what you are asking for now - to be heard.

It strikes me from the posts you have received that whether you are the BS or the WS, we are responding to our spouse in ways that our harmful to the relationship. As a result we feel lonely, used up, disconnected, rejected, and the list goes on.

I read all of the posts on blakes's site and all of these. I can see how some of the posts would hurt, however, people are really only speculating based on what they know. Their intentions (check hormones for low sex drive) are good. Please know this.

I will end this the same way I ended one of my last posts to blake and that is that I wish both of you peace. I really do.

Thanks for sharing your story.
LA44
ps: Also, I would say the same thing to you as I would say to any BS and any WS and that is IC is extremely important following an A. It sounds like you have many good friends and clergy to talk with but what about a professional - a total stranger - someone you can lay it all out with/have your say.

[This message edited by LA44 at 3:06 PM, March 6th (Thursday)]


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2450 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
CloudyDae
New Member
Member # 40913
Default  Posted: 3:09 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

I feel your pain. I am sorry for what you're going through right now...as a WW I'm sure that it's hard to deny your BS anything, I know that's where I'm having a hard time. Kuddos to you and your BS for attempting R, it's a hard road and what anyone else thinks is irrelevant: including family, friends and online supporters/haters. Good luck to you and your hubby at R...I wish you the best!

Posts: 9 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: USA
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 3:11 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

(Grace) I was one who responded to Blake's thread and mentioned that I wished my BS would do the work he was doing. I'm so sorry if that came across as insulting. I should have re-worded... I'm sorry.

We are seeing one side - I would LOVE my BS/WH to post on here. But it isn't for him. His growth is in his head and from his actions as he's not a big talker. And that hinders the advice we give on SI.

I understand how and why you're hurt. You both explained your feelings so eloquently. I wonder if there is a way to harness this communication skill into your marriage? There have been many times where I get into it with my husband and then come here to run it by everyone. It should really only matter to me what HE says, even if I don't agree. It's him I'm in the relationship with. I get what you are saying about needing to be heard.

Prayers your way.

[This message edited by rachelc at 3:12 PM, March 6th (Thursday)]


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

ďFollow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and donít take any shit.Ē


Posts: 5270 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
sadone29
Member
Member # 38597
Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

I agree with DixieD. I have a feeling I'll be learning for years to come just how much the porn use affected me in different ways. If I don't consciously build up my own self esteem every day, I can fall back down very easily.

Feel free to pm me any time!


DDay Feb. 28, 2013
"I am pretty sure enforcing the boundary is the most important part of the boundary"- Jerry Seinfeld

Posts: 769 | Registered: Mar 2013
spond
Member
Member # 41686
Content  Posted: 3:41 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

I didnít do the dialoguing well though and should have had this conversation with him using more of those tools.

I'm sure you guys will get better as you practice it and put it to use. I personally am not that very good with it either, my wife is a lot better then I.

You guys will get it, just remember to always communicate and don't stop practicing.


BH(me) | fWW
2 Kids - Married 2002
D-Day TT & EA | D-Day #2 PA
Reconciling

Posts: 413 | Registered: Dec 2013
SoVerySadNow
Member
Member # 36711
Default  Posted: 4:52 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

I appologize to you. I'm the one who mentioned a hormone check. Not because I think you are acting imbalanced at all, but because sometimes I've had off kilter hormones for no apparent reason and it has really affected sex. Everything about it. But I meant no offense, and I'm deeply sorry.
I'm glad you wrote about how you are feeling. A lot of it resonated with me.


Me:BW
Him:WH
D-day(s),after years of TT and Gaslighting was Labor Day Weekend 2012, continuing for a week after. *Dammit! More TT 3/9/13
Really trending toward D- planning about it is my "happy place" now.

Posts: 1292 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Sunny Florida
ThoughtIKnewYa
Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 5:33 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

He does have the rule in place of no messaging women which I greatly appreciate. This happened after one woman was getting a bit too personal with him (which he shared with me). Occasionally even now a woman will message him and ask him to break his rule ďjust for herĒ. Usually for a few weeks after that I have a really big grudge against SI.
This is totally unnecessary. All he has to do is uncheck "allow members to send me PMs" (it's probably worded differently)in his profile. If he chooses to PM with a guy from here, he can initiate it and they'll be able to PM him back, I think. Another method would be to put in his tagline that he doesn't accept PMs from opposite sex members. That way, you don't have to be upset with SI. It's common to PM around here. I do it, mostly in cases where what I might say might be embarrassing or because it's somewhat off-topic for the thread, in an attempt not to t/j. We have so many members here, it's within the realm of possibility that I would forget that's a rule for him and send a PM, in one of the situations I mentioned earlier. So, instead of having everybody get upset, it just makes sense to put safeguards in place that either other members can see or just stops it before it even starts.

I agree that you both need to take a break from sex and learn to develop true emotional intimacy. recoverynation.com has a road map, of sorts, and it's free. Check it out.

[This message edited by ThoughtIKnewYa at 5:35 PM, March 6th (Thursday)]


Posts: 11743 | Registered: Mar 2008
SadInNC
Member
Member # 42170
Default  Posted: 6:04 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

You both explained your feelings so eloquently. I wonder if there is a way to harness this communication skill into your marriage?
-rachelc

I said in an earlier post, that you guys should start a notebook and communicate a little bit that way together. I KNOW that this sounds really corny but I think it might be worth a shot. Maybe instead of SI on a certain day of the week, it should be "notebook" day. I've read a lot of blake's posts and he likes to write, you can't deny that. He can express his feelings through writing in a way that a lot of people can't. The man loves you. You love him. You just need to connect the dots.

IMO--YOU WERE SPOT ON TO FORGET ABOUT THE DAMN SEX FOR A LITTLE WHILE! IT'S MESSING BOTH OF YOU UP RIGHT NOW. FORGET ABOUT IT! Fix the emotional bonding and the communication problem and the sex will come naturally because the love is already there.


BS/Me WH/Him

"Your value doesn't decrease based on someone's inability to see your worth." -Unknown Wise Person


Posts: 345 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: North Carolina, United States
Kyrie
Member
Member # 41825
Default  Posted: 6:17 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

GraceRunner, I want to echo what so many people have already written - that your feelings matter and have been heard, that you are not bad or any of the other negative things you mentioned, that your needs and struggles are just as valid as blakesteele's. The bit of info you added about what's happening or not happening between you two sexually really got to me. That and your need for him to really listen to you, to be heard, just adds a whole other dimension to all that is blakesteele. Although he mentions that he's gone without viewing porn for a really long time, I am so disheartened to know that that's as far as he's gotten in dealing with that problem or addiction. No O inside you reveals so much about where you two are at this point. That piece of information just seems to trump everything else. I can't imagine how that must make you feel and how that sort of pattern in his sex life would leave you feeling empty and used up. That's not a healthy, mutually satisfying expression of love -- it's just wrong. I don't know what else to say other than my heart is heavy for you both.

Not too long ago, I suggested that blakesteele try to just be still for a moment. He is moving at a neck-breaking pace at times, trying so very hard to understand and heal. I know what that's like - to be almost frantic in all my efforts to recover. But in the long run, all it did for me was make me exhausted and it kept me from giving my fWH my full attention. If you have told him about your needs during sex, if you have told him you don't think he is really listening and responding to you, and he doesn't address those things, then no amount of therapy, reading, retreats, SI conversations will make that much of a difference in your efforts to R.

((((GraceRunner))))


Me: BW (47), WH (48)
Married 24 yrs, 2 teenagers
DD#1 01.20.12 When diagnosed w/STD
Told it was 15 mo. PA that ended 6 years ago
DD#2 04.06.14 Truth: PA was 2yrs/8mo
Separated for 6 weeks
Reconciling and healing now

Posts: 201 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: southeast USA
sadone29
Member
Member # 38597
Default  Posted: 8:19 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

I hope it's ok that I keep chiming in. Your situation really hits home for me. Kyrie makes some really good points. The sex thing is a big deal.
Could it be that he simply can't always give you what you need? My H is doing the work and confronting his issues, and still, he can only O if he masturbates by his own hand. Since he's no longer allowed to do that, he never gets to that point any more, (no matter how hard we try together). I've learned that it's not about me, and try not to take it personally, but sometimes I can't help but be sad about it. I do recognize that he needs time to relearn everything he thought he knew about himself.
It is a long road to recovery. It could be that just starting with emotional intimacy might help relax the situation a little.


DDay Feb. 28, 2013
"I am pretty sure enforcing the boundary is the most important part of the boundary"- Jerry Seinfeld

Posts: 769 | Registered: Mar 2013
still-living
Member
Member # 30434
Default  Posted: 10:48 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

GraceR,

I was the person who wrote "posting, and posting, and posting," and needing to "fix your sh_t." My opening statement, "...the result of a healthy relationship maintained by two emotionally healthy people." was purposefully written as neutral.

You might hate me more now, for what I'm going to say, and Blake too....

I wanted you to respond. I hoped for it. I intended for it. I had difficulty writing that post and pondered what to say because I totally agree with your concerns. (and here's when Blake starts hating me more too.) I've tried to reach out and balance it because doesn't feel right. IMO, the discussions have been obsessive and lopsided, and support has been embraced with bias, and I believe somewhere below this extreme, or any extreme, lies the truth, always.

Please understand, I only wish you and Blake the very best. I truly, truly do.

I will respectfully bow out unless re-invited by you Grace.


BH(me)47
WW 47 FOO Issues
DDay 11/09 Coworker
High School Sweethearts
Married 06/91
8 months TT
Sons 19 and 14
Recovery is constructing a pyramid of inference from which to see clearer.
The process involves using the reflexive loop.

Posts: 777 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Ches
Nature_Girl
Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 11:29 PM, March 6th (Thursday)

I can't read your H's posts because they trigger me too much due to the (IMO) porn addiction & justification-speak. I heard those same lines from my ex over & over & over. I've often wondered what the other side of the story might be. Thank you for sharing. You & I aren't all that different. I totally understand feeling used, hollow, like a receptacle, and the degradation of having a H who refuses to finish inside you. I used to feel like a cheap whore who he couldn't even be bothered kiss.

I consider porn use to be infidelity. It takes away from the marital relationship and often serves as a substitute for it. My ex would reenact horrible scenarios he viewed in porn. It completely destroyed my sex drive and warped his view of sex. He was unable to be aroused by a normal woman or normal sex.

I can't really help you. I just wanted to reach out to you and let you know that I understand what you're saying.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9824 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
GraceRunner
New Member
Member # 39856
Frustrated  Posted: 11:13 AM, March 7th (Friday)

I really appreciate the responses and suggestions. I've taken all of them to heart. ThoughtIKnewYa, I will look into recoverynation. SadInNC, we have used notebook writing as a means of communication before and it does work really well for us. It slows us down, makes us think, and keeps us focused. We will definitely do this when it comes to this sensitive, sore subject. Thank you for reminding me about that.

Rachelc, SoVerySadNow, still-living Ė I didnít mean to call people out or point fingers. I do know that everyone is just trying to help. Thank you for your apologies and reaching out, please know that I donít feel any animosity towards individual posters. I wanted to share how frustrated I am that my BH turns to a forum instead of me to get answers, that itís done in such a short time frame that we donít even have time to fully explore our feelings or thoughts, and that other peopleís words are given more weight than my own. That is what hurts me. Itís nice to have others hear me or validate my feelings but, just like everyone else here, I want that to happen first and foremost with my spouse.

Neverwudaguessed, you do seem to have a good read on our marriage, thank you. I'm not sure I've explained everything correctly regarding porn and how it stopped, etc.

Periodically throughout our marriage I would mention how his inability to O in me made me feel bad. Because I didn't have any other sexual experience to reference, I wasn't sure if it was his deal or something wrong with me. I suspected it could be because he was used to the "death grip" and I would try to gently suggest he stop masturbating for a while. He would assure me that it was just how he was and that everything was fine with him as far as our sex life went. And then I would kegel like a maniac . While I knew that he watched porn (and we watched it together occasionally) and MB, he didnít tell me that he was doing it nearly every day.

Eventually I became wore down from worrying about it and trying to fix it, usually silently and alone because I felt it was my issue and my problem. He seemed to confirm that with his repeated reassurances that I should stop worrying about it. I told him I needed to take a break from intercourse, that I would do anything and everything else but not intercourse. It was just too disappointing and depressing for me. That seemed to challenge and excite him and a few weeks later we were back to intercourse. I just gave up. And I say that with extreme remorse and sorrow. Iím really ashamed that I just gave up and I never talked to him again about how much it hurt. I thought I would just have to live with it and deal with disappointment in that area. I see now that I hurt our marriage so deeply by remaining silent, that I let myself down and him too. That is really a big reason why I feel compelled to be vocal with him about where I stand now with sex. I donít want to keep hurting him by sharing these hard feelings. I want to pull him close and comfort him and I so wish we had hysterical bonding so it could be a form of reassurance to him and bonding for us. But staying silent and stuffing the truth isnít an option anymore.

What changed the situation was a few months after DDay my BH read Every Manís Battle. He was convicted to stop porn and MB all on his own. It had nothing to do with me or my painful feelings about it. About a month after that he Oíd in me naturally and with ease. I was shocked. One month. Thatís it. All those years, all those feelings of inadequacy, something I had longed for our whole marriageÖ. Changed in one month. Iím working through that and trying to work on healing and letting go of the past. Itís what I wanted for so long. I know I should be happy and grateful. And I am. I am SO, SO grateful. He is a new man in this area. I get confused because I guess I figured that would fix all our problems in the bedroom. It was such a large and looming source of sadness for me that, now that itís no longer an issue, I donít understand why I am still struggling. Iím eager to look at the resources people here have suggested. They sound like they could help. And to be clear, my BH has apologized so many times it almost makes me uncomfortable. I know he wasnít trying to hurt me, I know we were both doing the best we could and we would change things if we could. I have forgiven him and I deeply appreciate where he stands now with porn and MB. I want to put it in the past and move forward. We still have the rest of our lives to have a fulfilling, healthy sexual relationship. I want that very badly with him. I have never been in a spot like this where I want to feel a certain way but I donít. Iím frustrated with myself and why the needle isnít moving on this issue. Iím stuck here and I have been in IC but stopped because I felt stuck there too.

sadone29, Iím glad you are chiming in. I can hear the sadness in your posts. Iím sorry. I know how painful it is and how it creates a distance. Itís hard when you feel rejected and inadequate even if you know itís not about you. I pray that you know you are perfect just as God made you and you are enough. Iíll keep you posted on what I learn and how we are growing through this.


Me - FWW, 38
Him - BS, 42
Married 15 years
2 young daughters
4 month EA/PA, DDAY 10/12

Posts: 39 | Registered: Jul 2013
scaredyKat
Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 12:42 PM, March 7th (Friday)

Hugs, honey and thank-you. I had the same marriage. No O for him (or for me, sadly) but God help me if I mentioned it or wanted to work to improve things. I got mocked and humiliated. Eventually he had full blown ED. I had no idea he was using porn, seeing strippers and having EAs and PAs. I thought it was me.

You have your work cut out for you and I think you have the character for it. Keep posting. Support on this site is strong for all.


Me-BS-60
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 3657 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
Autumn22
New Member
Member # 41810
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, March 7th (Friday)

It's such an amazing flood of conflicting emotions, when they begin to detox from porn and can finally perform with you. For me, it was an overwhelming combination of joy and relief...following by an equally overwhelming wave of anger and resentment and grief for so much unnecessary pain and wasted time.

Since we are all sharing so much, I want to add another facet of the path my SAH and I are traveling. When SAH was first diagnosed as an SA, he and I both knew I was at breaking point, This was our last chance, and he knew I was partway through the door. The shame of finally facing his addiction and the pain and damage it had caused brought up huge abandonment fears for him. I think too he was grateful that I was willing to consider working through recovery with him, during that month, he was able to obtain an erection and o with "just" me. It was wonderful, in a way only those of us who have lost our husbands to porn/acting out can understand.

But then, as quickly as things got better, they disappeared. SAH has moved away from trying to cling to me from a position of fear and shame - which is healthy and necessary for him to truly face his demons and get well. But without that unhealthy motivation, again he has lost the ability to obtain and maintain a functional erection without a LOT of work on my part. In many ways, it is harder to face his ED now - because I know it IS ABSOLUTELY an indication of his emotional closeness to or distance from me. And after 14 years of non-intimate sex, I have no interest in one more meaningless tumble, even though I love him dearly.

Same too for medications. We cycled through Viagra, Cialis, et al. They would work for a bit, then gradually become less and less effective. Because really, the issue has nothing to do with blood vessels and valves. It's all "in his head" (which is not to say it isn't very much real - it is, just not in a way that medicines will help.).

One night, as the initial improvement was wearing off, SAH took a pill before sex without telling me. Since things had started worrying me before, I was SO joyful that he was again able to perform, to get aroused with just me. It made me cry, feeling so close and intimate with him. And then...he told me he had taken a pill. I was just crushed. It was as if my dreams for us had finally come true only to have it ripped away all over again - but this time I actually knew what I was losing, not just imagining what it might be like. I immediately tossed the meds and told him I could handle whatever might happen between us in bed, but I was done with anything but just the two of us being part of it.

Many porn addicts make the mistake of white-knuckling it through abstinence without ever doing the core work needed to actually get sober. (Similar to a "dry drunk" - a term I've come to know through this journey) It seems as if BS may use research and intellectual study as a shield to avoid facing the deeper work needed to truly recovery. I recognize it because it tends to be my avoidance technique as well, and my SAH's too.

Also, one other thought on a different but related note. I mentioned before that SA/PA is really a profound intimacy problem. One thing that (still) drives me CRAZY is the disconnect between how SAH can treat other people and how he treats me. Your BS speaks of being empathetic with co-workers and able to handle conflicts outside of your home in a respectful and healthy manner, but that it is hard to respond the same way to conflicts at home. That is a classic trait of many SA/PAs. It is easy to be empathetic, understanding, and just generally wonderful for people with whom you have no intimate connection. They don't threaten the SA with the possibility of abandonment or having to face their own shameful behavior. For years, I would cry over my SAH's caring treatment of random women at work while coming home and being so distant and uncaring to me and our children. Now I know that he can easily be nice to people at work because they simply don't matter to him. It's maddening, insanely so, but he has to keep us at arm's length and not understand or meet our needs because that would bring him closer to us, and closeness, to him, equals risk and the possibility of being hurt. A huge part of his recovery will get him to a safe enough place with himself that he can embrace that risk, in order to reap the rewards intimacy provides.

I was thinking last night that the two of you may be better classified as mad hatters, than simply BH/WW. The pain and trauma caused by SA/PA is real and extremely damaging to a marriage. In no way am I suggesting your A was justified, but I suspect your marriage may actually have two betrayed and two wayward spouses, but only one wayward is truly owning the full imapct of their betrayal. Your A makes it much easier to blame shift and sweep other problems under the rug.

Sorry for the full length book here. I just know confusing and painful this journey has been for me and I can only imagine that yours may be even more so.

Keeping you both in my prayers.


Me: BW 45
Him: PA/SA in recovery 42
Married in 2000
Multiple DDs - gory details now in profile

Posts: 41 | Registered: Dec 2013
ThoughtIKnewYa
Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 2:24 PM, March 7th (Friday)

I was thinking last night that the two of you may be better classified as mad hatters, than simply BH/WW. The pain and trauma caused by SA/PA is real and extremely damaging to a marriage. In no way am I suggesting your A was justified, but I suspect your marriage may actually have two betrayed and two wayward spouses, but only one wayward is truly owning the full imapct of their betrayal. Your A makes it much easier to blame shift and sweep other problems under the rug.
I was thinking the EXACT. SAME. THING.

Posts: 11743 | Registered: Mar 2008
bionicgal
Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 2:37 PM, March 7th (Friday)

I was thinking last night that the two of you may be better classified as mad hatters, than simply BH/WW.

I think this is quite an overreaction, unless I am missing something. We all bring issues to the marriage, but infidelity is about betrayal -- lying, etc. How is this BS a wayward? Am I a wayward because I unknowingly did things (non-secret)that hurt our sexual relationship pre-dday?

I am sorry, I totally disagree, and am kind of offended by the suggestion.

[This message edited by bionicgal at 2:39 PM, March 7th (Friday)]


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is a personal crisis, not a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 2062 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
Nature_Girl
Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 3:08 PM, March 7th (Friday)

I was thinking last night that the two of you may be better classified as mad hatters, than simply BH/WW. The pain and trauma caused by SA/PA is real and extremely damaging to a marriage. In no way am I suggesting your A was justified, but I suspect your marriage may actually have two betrayed and two wayward spouses, but only one wayward is truly owning the full imapct of their betrayal. Your A makes it much easier to blame shift and sweep other problems under the rug.

Speaking as a BxW of a SA, I absolutely, wholeheartedly agree and have thought so from the beginning. I know full well the betrayal a spouse goes through when porn is used as a substitute for intimacy of any kind.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9824 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
DixieD
Member
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 3:21 PM, March 7th (Friday)

Bionicgal, maybe you missed this part.

While I knew that he watched porn (and we watched it together occasionally) and MB, he didnít tell me that he was doing it nearly every day.

If a spouse is unaware of the frequency of something it can be a betrayal and a shock. What is important is if it fits the couples own definition. That is for them to decide. No one else's opinion really matters.

GR, is going to need time to come to term with things that affected her and her marriage. Things she may only be starting to see or understand, and unfortunately adding an affair into the mix complicates all of that.

The pain and trauma caused by SA/PA is real and extremely damaging to a marriage.

This is very true and spouses who have not experienced may not fully understand it.

Grace, these words stuck out to me. I'm just going to throw it out there and you do whatever you want with it.

Eventually I became wore down from worrying about it and trying to fix it, usually silently and alone because I felt it was my issue and my problem.

Made me think of codependency. Have you read Codependent No More by Melanie Beattie? I know your husband was reading about codependency.

I get confused because I guess I figured that would fix all our problems in the bedroom. It was such a large and looming source of sadness for me that, now that itís no longer an issue, I donít understand why I am still struggling.

In that book it mentions how addicts will get clean and the spouses are still unhappy and confused and why that is.

Iím working through that and trying to work on healing and letting go of the past.

I have forgiven him and I deeply appreciate where he stands now with porn and MB. I want to put it in the past and move forward.

Iím frustrated with myself and why the needle isnít moving on this issue. Iím stuck here and I have been in IC but stopped because I felt stuck there too.

Everyone has their own view on forgiveness. I definitely have what I think works for me and it differs from what other people talk about on SI. I'm not sure you have processed much about how your husband's porn use affected you so how can you have forgiven him already? And if you have truly processed and accepted and forgiven would you be stuck and frustrated with yourself for not putting it in the past and moving forward?

I read a good book by Claudia Black about having a SA/PA spouse called Deceived and she talked about cheap forgiveness or forgiving too soon and what that does.


Growing forward

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2011
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 3:31 PM, March 7th (Friday)

I was thinking last night that the two of you may be better classified as mad hatters, than simply BH/WW.

They are not Madhatters. Please do not try to create a situation that doesn't exist.

Lets get this thread back on topic.

Thank you.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 198293 | Registered: May 2002
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 3:45 PM, March 7th (Friday)

Grace,

But I didnít start out the right way with sharing my feelings and making sure I expressed them so he could understand them and not feel attacked.

^^^ this detail caught my eye. And when one feels attacked, one makes a reaction that then reinforces the original apprehension about sharing feelings.

ICR, as most often, my WW would 'share' her feelings in a way that did not involve actually sharing her feelings. She would not say 'I feel...', she would point out what was supposedly wrong, out of place, etc. about me, the M, the circumstance, or whatever.

So maybe the porn was a coping mechanism for your H in dealing with being attacked, and then attacked for reacting poorly in feeling attacked.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 882 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
Autumn22
New Member
Member # 41810
Default  Posted: 4:08 PM, March 7th (Friday)

Deeply Scared,
My apologies. I thought the term mad hatters referred to couples where both had been betrayed. I guess I got that wrong! (Or SA/PA isn't considered infidelity here)

As the wife of a SA whose primary acting out involved secret porn use and years of gas lighting, blame shifting, etc, I identify myself as a BS. I read in GR's posts (and in some of BS's as well) many of the behaviors, emotions and patterns common amongst SA/PAs. And some of the experiences she shared matched my own very closely in some ways. I wanted to share parts of my story with her in case it was a topic she wanted to explore further.

My understanding was that SI worked hard not to put one person's pain or betrayal above anyone else's. Those who endured their WW spouse's PAs isn't given more compassion or thought to be more betrayed than someone enduring an EA. I felt safe here and that my pain as the partner of a PA was valued and honored. Perhaps I'm incorrect, in which case, I suppose I don't belong here at all.

GR - I'm sorry if my posts were off topic or disrespectful. I absolutely meant only to offer support.

[This message edited by Autumn22 at 4:11 PM, March 7th (Friday)]


Me: BW 45
Him: PA/SA in recovery 42
Married in 2000
Multiple DDs - gory details now in profile

Posts: 41 | Registered: Dec 2013
ReunitePangea
Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 4:41 PM, March 7th (Friday)

I felt safe here and that my pain as the partner of a PA was valued and honored. Perhaps I'm incorrect, in which case, I suppose I don't belong here at all.

Autumn - you are absolutely valued and honored here and you do belong. What you need to remember is what one person may consider an affair/cheating/infidelity may not be the same as what another persons definition is. I probably am on the other end of the spectrum - I have had sex with someone other than my wife before DDay but I do not consider myself a WS at all - we had an open marriage. I am a BS because my WW had a LTA before we were open. It is the rules of our own individual marriages that define whether we are a BS or WS or not, not the rules of someone else's marriage. You most certainly do belong so please do not feel otherwise.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 489 | Registered: Nov 2012
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Default  Posted: 4:41 PM, March 7th (Friday)

Autumn22.....

Please don't feel as if you offended anyone, you didn't

The term Madhatter is used when both spouses in their current relationship have cheated. Porn, whether people disagree or not, does not fall under that category (at least on SI it doesn't) otherwise half the members here would be Madhatters.

We try to limit it to physical and emotional affairs.

If you need further clarification, please feel free to PM me


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 198293 | Registered: May 2002
Shatteredreality
New Member
Member # 42481
Default  Posted: 4:49 PM, March 7th (Friday)

Really interesting to read how this thread has evolved. GR you are really brave to bring your experience here.

I can totally relate to the sense that, now that things are moving in a better direction, that brings relief but also things are still not settled... The unease and resentment from the long years of struggle are still not resolved.

It took a while of reading "PA" in the discussion of evading intimacy of all kinds with a spouse, to realize it was meant to represent porn addict. I read it as passive aggressive, because that was the dynamic in my marriage. My husband used porn and would get himself off, but not excessively... Even so he was totally uninterested in sexual intimacy with me ans every attempt I made to address the issue, no matter how kindly or compassionately, was seen by him as conflict and so made the situation worse.

It was so hurtful and after many long years I just gave up trying. Hence my A. So, GR, I understand how that frustration develops.

In recovery my h and I both had to learn how to manage our anxiety around sex as we were getting back to it. No h b here. I am happy to say we are getting it together again but I sure do wish that we hadn't had to go through the fire to get here.


WS

An interviewer once asked me if I could sum up everything I know about psychology in ten words or less. I said, "Hell, I can do it in two words: People cope." --Mira Kirshenbaum


Posts: 36 | Registered: Feb 2014
GraceRunner
New Member
Member # 39856
Default  Posted: 4:53 PM, March 7th (Friday)

Well, my head is kind of swimming right now. There has been a lot of useful information put out here. Thank you for that. It seems like I at least have a direction to go and something to work with here. And to hear others that feel the same is like a huge wave of relief. I could almost cry to know there are some other people that have struggled with feeling distant during sex. Autumn22, thank you for sharing your story, it means a lot and helps. DixieD, I havenít read that but I think BH has. Iíll look into it. MC_Jack, I am sure that I didnít phrase things well and I think he often did feel like I was attacking his manhood.

I donít consider us madhatters or myself a BS. BH and I have talked about this a lot. We agree that while not lying about it, he was keeping the quantity a secret. He owns that. Certainly it would have been useful information to have when I was struggling with our lack of intimacy. I do believe he did not know it was hurting us. I am positive about that. And as soon as he learned different, he acted different. I didnít know it was hurting us either. We both didnít know and we both have suffered. We are both sad that we donít feel weíve ever had an intimate, bonded sexual relationship.

On the other hand, I knew early on in my A that what I was doing was wrong. I actively hid it. Once questioned about it, I lied. My BH would not have lied to me had I directly questioned him. And had I demanded he stop I think he would have. When he demanded I stop my A, I went underground. The motivations and actions and understandings of hurt/right/wrong/ were totally different in these two scenarios.

I am getting a clearer understanding though that the fallout from porn in our marriage could be bigger than I realized. I donít mean to give cheap forgiveness. I think I can forgive him while also acknowledging that it has hurt me/him/us and that we have work and healing to do in this area.


Me - FWW, 38
Him - BS, 42
Married 15 years
2 young daughters
4 month EA/PA, DDAY 10/12

Posts: 39 | Registered: Jul 2013
Neverwudaguessed
Member
Member # 41884
Default  Posted: 5:02 PM, March 7th (Friday)

My WH's and my experience does not include porn use, so I may be out of line drawing any parallels between your experience and my own, however, I was so struck by how you describe the process of trying to communicate and fix something that was wrong in your marriage and my own experience. You describe how you tried to get your husband to understand that his inability to O inside of you made you feel bad. His reassurances and the lack of any change in that area of the marriage so:
This that you wrote below: (Sorry; don't know how to frame the words from posts as everyone does here)

"Eventually I became wore down from worrying about it and trying to fix it, usually silently and alone because I felt it was my issue and my problem. He seemed to confirm that with his repeated reassurances that I should stop worrying about it. I told him I needed to take a break from intercourse, that I would do anything and everything else but not intercourse. It was just too disappointing and depressing for me. That seemed to challenge and excite him and a few weeks later we were back to intercourse. I just gave up. And I say that with extreme remorse and sorrow. Iím really ashamed that I just gave up and I never talked to him again about how much it hurt. I thought I would just have to live with it and deal with disappointment in that area. I see now that I hurt our marriage so deeply by remaining silent, that I let myself down and him too."

I had spent so many years trying to explain to my Husband that his inability to fight through conflict with me, share his feelings and be affectionate was making our marriage vulnerable, leaving me lonely and unhappy. I begged him to go to Marriage counseling with me so that we could work on it. He told me he was ok with who he was and how he coped with emotion. I understood where it came from with a narcissistic, borderline mother and can remember the day that I finally said to myself, well, this is the man that you married, he does not want to change so you have what you have and that is it." I too "gave up." I too had become "wore down from worrying about it and trying to fix it." I too thought that I would just have to live with this "disappointment" and sadness.
While we do not have the same specific issue within our marriages, This post truly Sucked the wind out of me. The way in which we both dealt with our differing issues was absolutely, exactly the same. We tried and tried until we did not try any longer. Such a critical turning point in our marriages, huh?

I know we have different situations, but I just wanted you to know that I hear the pain and regret in this post. While the giving up on your part regarding the issue of sex (to me also about intimacy) ultimately led you outside your marriage, it was the lack of connectedness and being open to emotion (intimacy) that led my husband to go outside of the marriage. Similar journeys in a way. What to make of that, if there is anything, I don't know at the moment. All I know is that I am still routing for the two of you!

[This message edited by Neverwudaguessed at 5:03 PM, March 7th (Friday)]


BW: 44 Me
WH:48
DDay1 9-9-13 (18th Wedding Anniversary) 6 wk EA, 1 wk PA
DDay2: 10-25-13 EA/PA with same OW 12 1/2 years ago for 3 months
OW: XGF Predator who never stopped pursuing WH
DS 13
DD 11

Posts: 642 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 5:02 PM, March 7th (Friday)

((Grace)) I just want to say that you and blakesteele both are owning your issues. Both of you want a better, more authentic marriage. Neither of you are afraid to face your own issues...I just want to say that I am in awe of this... Good luck on this journey.


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

ďFollow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and donít take any shit.Ē


Posts: 5270 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
cantaccept
Member
Member # 37451
Default  Posted: 5:55 PM, March 7th (Friday)

Hi Gracerunner,

Glad to see you posting here. I think the support is priceless. I know I would not have gotten through all this without all the kind and compassionate people here.

Porn. Your thread had really brought a lot of memories and thought to me today.

It was a huge problem in our marriage. I hated it, it made me feel like less, especially when he would choose it over me. I tried over the years to make him understand how it made me feel. It made me feel like I was not enough, not pretty enough, sexy enough, just not enough for him.

He minimized my feelings, told me it meant nothing.

I remember the week after we got married, my mom had emergency surgery and I had to go to her, 2500 miles away. I remember lying in the bed alone, he didn't answer the phone. I remember trying to stop the images in my head of him masturbating to a picture of another woman. It hurts.

After dday #1, I was insistent that it stop, no more, it was triggering me and I really believed that it made him view sex as a shallow act without intimacy.

He promised, agreed. Well, after dday#2, he sent me a confession, he had never stopped. Had used it every day since dday #1 and lied.

I am sorry if this is a t/j, I just see now, in retrospect, it really was destructive. I think now that he really was addicted.

His confession about his 2nd infidelity read like a porn script, shallow, opportunity, no real feelings, just an act.

I wonder now if the porn affected how he viewed women, sex and the intimacy was too hard.

Not really making any sense here. Just wanted to reaffirm that it does make you feel like less, especially if it intrudes or replaces the specialness. If it affects you, hurts you, it is not good for your marriage.

Sorry for the ramble. Just my state of being at the moment.


"So often times it happens, that we live our lives in chains and we never even know we have the key"

I would now like to be known as Can!

dday October 21,2012
dday December 20, 2013
wh boots5050
attempted R, it was all a lie

Divor


Posts: 1422 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Connecticut
IsthereEVERanend
Member
Member # 42216
Default  Posted: 7:57 PM, March 7th (Friday)

For several years I was unable / did not care to have sex with fww. When trying to start things back up, there was no way it was going to work. It took a year at least, and it was all I in my head. I have yet to get up the courage to find out what is in mywifes head.
There is something there that's missing and I'm not sure if its just the meds she takes for BPD Type 2 or a direct result of her affair.
Yes, it sucks.


Me: Older than dirt
FWW 63
DD 8/1990 She confessed to a 2 month ea/pa
Asked forgiveness but volunteered to leave. No way was I going to give her the boot

The eight most feared words used together in the English language: We need to talk. Th


Posts: 88 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Utah
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 9:28 PM, March 7th (Friday)

This is a great thread. Thank you Grace et al.

It has given me perspective on the following:
1. My wife has a huge anxiety problem which has always greatly affected our sex life. The book Passionate Marriage explained it to me, how anxiety or other emotional issues make it difficult for some women to haves an orgasm during intercourse while they can very easily and quickly MB (or be manually stimulated) to one. It might be in their head like the ED issue above.
2. That gave made me feel so damned inadequate as the picture hanging crookedly on the wall was more important than staying in the 'moment'.
3. I turned to porn at times to soothe and experience in fantasy what I could not get in reality.
4. M suffered of course as a result of the porn use.
5. Negative cycle created.

Also my WW told me at great length how the OM really preferred to just MB. That the sex was minimal, and that OM preferred that my WW just lay on the bed so he could then just jack off for as long as he wanted and then cum on her. She said how humiliating it was. I always thought that she was bullshit minimizing. So maybe the OM had some other major issues. The other BW never mentioned anything, and I never told her these details. She was very upset obviously, but now I wonder if she thought that her H was acting better sexually with my WW than he was at home...kind of an extra betrayal that was assumed.

Anyways, thanks for this thread. It gave me a lot to thinks about. Thanks for opening up Grace.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 9:35 PM, March 7th (Friday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 882 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
sadone29
Member
Member # 38597
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, March 8th (Saturday)

Thanks GraceRunner.

I will keep you and blakesteele in my prayers. You both obviously love each other and it's great that you are both working towards healing.


DDay Feb. 28, 2013
"I am pretty sure enforcing the boundary is the most important part of the boundary"- Jerry Seinfeld

Posts: 769 | Registered: Mar 2013
Topic Posts: 61