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User Topic: the world I made
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 12:07 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

After three years trying to R my gentle, sweet, loving wife threw a wine glass at me last night. Just at my leg, so it broke against my jeans and didn't cause any real harm. There is absolutely no history of this behavior from her. She is not this person. This is what I created by my shitty decisions, but at the same time, I'm so angry at her for doing that and I can't even think straight. I left to stay with my parents to clear my head and calm down.

Three years where if you ask me I'll say I've reevaluated everything and committed to saving this marriage and showing that I value her above all else. If you ask her, I've done nothing. Obviously there is a disconnect, but neither of us can see where it is. We've had to stop MC for a while because I've found myself unemployed, so there's no mediation.

She feels that I've checked out, and to some degree she's right. I've grown so weary of being committed to R while having to hear that she's still deciding if she wants to R or not...for three years. Am I being unrealistic in thinking that after three years there should either be a 100% commitment to R or a decision to D? She tells me that i broke it so i have to fix it. I try, but ive seen in these forums that while it only take one person to break the marriage, R requires two. Do i have that wrong? Its gotten to the point where we're just pushing each others buttons and arguments escalate wildly.

I just really need some help and insight. I'm losing her and I don't know what to do from here. She can't get past the anger and sadness that I caused her. She can't see me as anything other than the person who hurt her. I can't find a way to not be hurt when I am defined over and over only by the worst thing I've ever done.

She used to be sweet, kind, loving, supportive and hopeful. Now she's just angry. Because of my dumb ass.

I dont want to give up, but I don't want either of us to hurt anymore.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
toughernow
Member
Member # 40915
Default  Posted: 12:18 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

longroadhome,

No stop sign so...

As a BS ( two years into R) I can tell you that the feelings your wife is having are the same feelings I have.

She used to be sweet, kind, loving, supportive and hopeful. Now she's just angry. Because of my dumb ass.

My fWH has said the same about me. I can tell you that I really want to be that woman again, and I don't know your wife but I think it's reasonable to assume that she would like to be that woman again too.

I dont want to give up, but I don't want either of us to hurt anymore.

Then don't give up! Keep trying! And don't wait until she begins to slip back into the abyss to go to her and wrap your arms around her, and tell her how wonderful she is and how grateful you are that she is trying so hard to save your relationship.

Just my two cents.


BS (Me) - 47
WS(Him) -48

Married 23 years - together for 29 years


DDay - June 10th 2012 then TT'd-June 2012 - July 2012 (and beyond????)
2 amazing children

"Understanding love is one of the hardest things in life." - Fred Rogers


Posts: 98 | Registered: Oct 2013
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 12:30 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

go to her and wrap your arms around her, and tell her how wonderful she is

She doesn't allow this. She pulls away from physical contact. Maybe TMI, but she hasn't been able to let me touch her in ANY way for seven months now.

I do appreciate what you're saying, toughernow, and I thank you for taking the time to help. BS insight is so valuable because the BSs here are often able to tell us WSs the things that our own BS is unable to.

she would like to be that woman again too.

She has said this as well. I feel that she's just really having an awful time with it. I would love for her to be able to forgive me just so she can let go of this terrible anger and pain. It won't make me feel any better about how horribly I've treated her, but I wish more than anything for her to get some relief from all of this.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

I'm in this for the long haul, and I refuse to give up. No matter how hard it gets, what I'm going through is nothing compared to what I've done to Mrs LRH. My greatest hope is that we come out the other side of this with our marriage intact, but the only thing that's important to me these days is her happiness...whatever that means to her...and I will do everything in my power to help her get there.

This is from your profile. It doesnt jive with:

She feels that I've checked out, and to some degree she's right. I've grown so weary of being committed to R while having to hear that she's still deciding if she wants to R or not...for three years.

Dude, this is a process. You shit on your marriage, on her. There are ups and downs. Add in the stress of being unemployed, no MC, and you admittedly checking out. You can't check out! No matter how small. You're not working right now, so step up the work on your marriage. Read like crazy, work on you. Help her, no matter how small, show her she's important. Play with your kids. Etc.

Yeah, there are times that I still wonder if my marriage is salvageable. Usually when he's slacking off, in a comfortable groove. I don't ever want to be taken for granted again.

Also, in your profile you state you should have stayed and fought for her. Yet, you left again last night. Yes, she was angry, she never should have thrown the glass. But you emotionally abandoned her again.



BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 12:52 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

Read like crazy, work on you. Help her, no matter how small,

I still do all if this. The checking out, from what I understand of what she's trying to tell me, is that I'm not doing a good job wooing her. I have tried, but when I do it tends to "bounce off" because of how much pain she's in.

Many of outpr conversations lately have had to do with her needing space and time away from me. Under the circumstances and considering how angry she was, I thought it was a good time to give her space. Maybe that was a bad call, and I'll have to deal with the fallout from that.

Thank you, Kelany


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 12:54 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

How are you trying to woo her? Maybe you can get some suggestions for that.

Have you read anything from John Gottman? Not about infidelity but marriage?


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

Gottman sounds familiar, but I don't remember from where. I did read Relationship Rescue (actually...audio book) along with Hartley and a bunch of other stuff about marriage, infidwlity and seld improvment and I've been following the steps laid out in Infidelity Crisis, which primarily talks about showing kindness over the long term with the hope that it helps the anger and sadnessnto fade. That said, I certainly wasn't showing kindness in the face of her anger last night.

I would love some suggestions on how to woo her. She doews not let me hug her and she tends to brush off compliments of any kind. I really think that, in addition to the fact that I'm not very good a wooing her, she also has a hard time letting me woo her.

I'm making so many mistakes I can't stand myself.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
toughernow
Member
Member # 40915
Default  Posted: 1:16 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

I would love for her to be able to forgive me just so she can let go of this terrible anger and pain. It won't make me feel any better about how horribly I've treated her, but I wish more than anything for her to get some relief from all of this.

Have you told her this? Try writing it in a note if she won't let you hold her.

I have seen the pain on my fWH's face when he can't "reach me" emotionally. All I can say is it's like; if you had a knife sticking out of your arm and you were in excruciating pain, and you noticed that the person sitting across from you also had a knife sticking out of their arm, would you be able to focus on the other persons pain...or is it far more likely that your own pain would somehow block your ability to empathize with the other person. Now add to this scenario the fact that the person sitting across from you is the one who inflicted those painful wounds.

It sounds like you really want a second chance to make things right, the question is do you have the endurance to see it through?

My thoughts and prayers are with you.

[This message edited by toughernow at 1:20 PM, March 8th (Saturday)]


BS (Me) - 47
WS(Him) -48

Married 23 years - together for 29 years


DDay - June 10th 2012 then TT'd-June 2012 - July 2012 (and beyond????)
2 amazing children

"Understanding love is one of the hardest things in life." - Fred Rogers


Posts: 98 | Registered: Oct 2013
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 1:22 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

Thank you toughernow. Yes, I have told her that. She has used many analogies similar tomyours tontry to describe her state of mind to me.

It just feels like everything that I know to do to show her I care does not get through, and so its on me to figure something else out. I'm just having so much trouble with it and I feel like I'm failing her all over again.

I'm having so much trouble just working upnthe will to go home and make it right because I'm still angry about the wine glass. I guess I should practice what I preach and just let it go.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
refuz2bavictim
Member
Member # 27176
Default  Posted: 1:25 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

3-5 years.

She may be on the 5 year program, which means your R will be on that timeframe along with it.

Sorry to hear that you had to stop MC, and I am sure the added stress of your unemployment isn't helping the healing process.

My FWH and my kids during all of year 3 would have described me as being hard, tough love, too direct, and not at all what I "used" to be. Part of that new me, is here to stay. The part that doesn't take shit and says what she needs and wants, and won't accept excuses. But some of the softness and laughter has certainly returned.

Because we are both committed to R, I have every intention of riding out any bumps well through year 5. I know that this timeline of 3-5 years wasn't pulled out of the air arbitrarily.

This new world you made, has an average life span of 3-5 years. Maybe you could try to think of it this way, when the going gets tough. The other stresses in your life may be adding on to this.

Patience and effective communication are your best friends right now.


BS:ME DDay: 7/18/09 Last of TT 7/11/10
MOW's EA/PA all were my "friends" but one


Posts: 2372 | Registered: Jan 2010
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 1:35 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

hard, tough love, too direct, and not at all what I "used" to be.

Oh, yes. Exactly this. If I say something that could be interpreted in more than one way, she will jump on the most negative interpretation. I understand that its about keeping herself safe.

Because we are both committed to R, I have every intention of riding out any bumps well through year 5

This is the trick...BOTH being committed to R. I've been very vocal about my commitment and she tends to be very vocal about being undecided. Again, probably has more to do with keeping herself feeling safe.

Thank you, refuz2bavictim


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
toughernow
Member
Member # 40915
Default  Posted: 1:42 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

It just feels like everything that I know to do to show her I care does not get through,

Maybe it is getting through...perhaps not as quickly or as completly as you would like. I think we all come into R with this timeline in our minds as to how R is going to play out, and how long it will take for us to get through it...but what we all seem to find out is that there is no exact formula for. R. We are all unique human beings and this is a "process" as Kelany so wisely pointed out. You may be doing everything "right" and she needs more time to heal.

I'm having so much trouble just working upnthe will to go home and make it right because I'm still angry about the wine glass.

I can only speak for myself here, but the one thing that I fear the most as a BS is being abandoned. When fWH would walk away from me to focus on his pain...that's when he failed me.


BS (Me) - 47
WS(Him) -48

Married 23 years - together for 29 years


DDay - June 10th 2012 then TT'd-June 2012 - July 2012 (and beyond????)
2 amazing children

"Understanding love is one of the hardest things in life." - Fred Rogers


Posts: 98 | Registered: Oct 2013
toughernow
Member
Member # 40915
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

I've been very vocal about my commitment and she tends to be very vocal about being undecided. Again, probably has more to do with keeping herself feeling safe.

BINGO!


BS (Me) - 47
WS(Him) -48

Married 23 years - together for 29 years


DDay - June 10th 2012 then TT'd-June 2012 - July 2012 (and beyond????)
2 amazing children

"Understanding love is one of the hardest things in life." - Fred Rogers


Posts: 98 | Registered: Oct 2013
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 1:57 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

When fWH would walk away from me to focus on his pain...that's when he failed me.

Wow, that just hit me like a hammer to the heart. Thank you, toughernow. That was very helpful.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
20WrongsVs1
Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 2:07 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

You absolutely did the right thing by temporarily leaving the situation. She physically assaulted you. Reacting to that with anger is a normal, human reaction, and I can totally see why you felt that way.

This is what I created by my shitty decisions

Respectfully disagree. Her choices are her own, and she needs to take responsibility for them. Three years or three weeks after DDay, violence is never acceptable. If you were a WW, posters would be screaming "abuse" or advising you to call the police.

I can''t find a way to not be hurt when I am defined over and over only by the worst thing I''ve ever done.

LRH, your pain and sadness is valid. Sharing your feelings with BW is a necessary component for R. Both of you need to foster a safe environment in which feelings can openly be shared.

I guess I should practice what I preach and just let it go.

Are you preaching that? If you''re expecting her to "just let it go" when something bothers her, instead of expressing her feelings to you...well, that''s a problem. I guess I''m repeating myself, but it bears repeating. In a healthy M, both partners must feel safe expressing their feelings. With words.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1179 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 2:14 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

Are you preaching that

Well, kind of. I often express to her that I hope that she can let go of the anger and hurt eventually. She's told me that the things I say sometimes sound like I'm telling her to get over it. I'm really not trying to say that. I think the truth lies somewhere between how i say things and how she hears them.

I have honestly never been that angry at her before, so i didnt know what to do other than leave. I hate that I've probably made her feel abandoned again.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
Lovedyoumore
Member
Member # 35593
Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

I'm having so much trouble just working upnthe will to go home and make it right because I'm still angry about the wine glass. I guess I should practice what I preach and just let it go.

Really? A wine glass? You break her heart into pieces, break her trust, break her self esteem, break her life, break her peace, break her memories, and on and on, and you are withholding because of a wine glass?

You know why she tells you she does not know if she is all in for R? She is watching you. She was all in your marriage while you checked out for emotional strokes and sex with someone else. She does not yet feel safe with you and it is affecting her R.

As far as changing her, yes, the A has changed her. I read a post on SI once that compared feelings after DDay to feeling as if all the butterflies had died. Your BW will never be the same. I know her anger because I feel it. I have never felt the hate and anger in my 50+ years that I have felt in the past 3 years. We are 3 years, almost to the day, past DDay, and I still feel anger at times because of the sheer uselessness of the A that has brought us to this place. I am angry that the peaceful days I spent my life looking forward to are not going to happen. When you are blindsided by an A, peace in a relationship dies. Your BW may learn to live with her new life, but she is still in mourning for her old self, her old life, and her old H. You may feel like you are a new H, but you are not shiny, unused new. You are recycled and your BW may still be having a hard time accepting that.


Me 52
WH 52
Married 30+ years
Together trying to R

I tell people I am tired but really my heart is broken and I am sad.


Posts: 1473 | Registered: May 2012 | From: Southern, bless your heart
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 2:39 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

Have you read the 5 love languages? Maybe you're having trouble wooing her because you're not speaking HER love language and only speaking yours.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 2:42 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

Also, I have forgiven my husband. I still feel anger, hurt and pain. Sometimes a lot, sometimes less. Forgiveness doesn't mean all that magically goes away.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 2:42 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

Really? A wine glass? You break her heart into pieces, break her trust, break her self esteem, break her life, break her peace, break her memories, and on and on, and you are withholding because of a wine glass?

lovedyoumore- I think I've been clear that I take responsibility for her state of mind. If not, then consider it clarified now. It sounds like your saying that I should accept that I deserve to have something thrown at me. I suppose that we WSs deserve to be called names regularly and be verbally run down, hell maybe we even deserve to be hit if that's what the BS needs in the moment to help them heal?

Yes, I'm angry about the wine glass. I'm not absolving myself of my responsibility for her pain by being angry. As 20wrongs pointed out, she decides her actions, even if I am responsible for the pain and anger she feels. I just happen to think that this particular decision was wrong and I'm upset about it.

I don't know, folks...am I wrong here?


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
PrideFallen
Member
Member # 42002
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

Like Lovedyoumore, I was struck by the anger comments. I'm sure that this situation didn't go from zero to wine glass in 4.5 seconds, so I assume that some (most?) of your anger may be from the overall situation.

Nonetheless, it worries me a little that you were so angry that you left to stay with your parents, and are having trouble working up the will power to go home.

Don't misunderstand, there are levels of treatment from BSs that are unacceptable and WSs are withing their rights to stand up for themselves. That said, as WSs I think we have the greater responsibility to step away from anger, and reach out rather than escalate.

I don't have anywhere near enough info about your situation to really form an opinion, but it seems likely that anger on both your parts is a big issue. The more you can reduce your own anger, it will bring the overall level down and that can only help.


Me: WH, 40
Her: BW, 40
D-Day June 2013
Working on R

Posts: 54 | Registered: Jan 2014
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 2:49 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

Have you read the 5 love languages?

Sure did. She had acts of service and quality time as her top two and I try to deliver on that. She has recently started saying that she thinks she may be more of a gifts person. As I mentioned, I am recently unemployed so there's a disconnect there.

Also, I have forgiven my husband. I still feel anger, hurt and pain. Sometimes a lot, sometimes less. Forgiveness doesn't mean all that magically goes away.

Point well taken. I do believe, though, that the ability to forgive is the key to the pain and angwer starting to subside. Does that make sense?


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
20WrongsVs1
Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 2:53 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

I''m really not trying to say that. I think the truth lies somewhere between how i say things and how she hears them.

Do you two ever perform argument autopsies? BH and I do, and they''re so valuable. After a conversation or argument when one (or both) of you leave hurt, sad, or angry...later on when you''ve both calmed down, do a post-mortem assessment of the conversation. Share your perspective, and accept the other''s as true and valid. Just yesterday BH told me my answers to some A-related questions he''d asked the previous day had saddened him. Not so much my words as my demeanor. Even though I wasn''t "trying to be defensive," I accepted that he saw it that way, and his perspective helped me discover something about myself.

You break her heart into pieces, break her trust, break her self esteem, break her life, break her peace, break her memories, and on and on, and you are withholding because of a wine glass?

This defense of violence is unconscionable. Had she hit his naked arm instead of a clothed leg, he could''ve been badly cut. The lack of physical injury is irrelevant anyway. She hit him. That is never acceptable, and LRH did the right thing, the safe thing for both of them, by removing himself from the situation. He has every right to be angry about it. Just as his BW has every right to be hurt, angry, or sad. She wants to smash a wine glass against a wall, or punch a pillow? Fine. But minimizing her violent act, and criticizing him for abandoning her? It''s offensive.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1179 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 2:54 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

but it seems likely that anger on both your parts is a big issue. The more you can reduce your own anger, it will bring the overall level down and that can only help.

Agreed, and thank you PrideFallen. No, it did not go from zero to wine glass in 4.5 seconds. It escalated over about an hour and I played a big part in the escalation.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 3:01 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

I think its important that I reiterate that violence of any kind is VERY out of character for Mrs LRH and I do believe that she did not really intend to hurt me. Yes, it could have turned out to be a serious injury if it played out in some other way, and yes, it was the wrong thing to do, and yes, im angry about it, but I want everyone to know that my wife is not a violent person.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
Kelany
Member
Member # 34755
Default  Posted: 3:14 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

I will say during a major TT admission I threw a remote at a WALL and burned some of his clothes in our driveway but never touched my husband. I wanted to, oh how I did. I can understand that pain and anger, but I never did it.


BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking


Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

I wanted to, oh how I did

I really do get this. Its not the right thing to do and will certainly complicate an already complicates situation, but I can absolutely understand a BS being angry enough to want to hurt their WS.

For the first year after d-day I probably would not have reacted like this. I was still very much in the mindset that I deserved whatever I got back then. The process if examining my why and finding the weak points in my personality have left me less tolerant of things like this or even name-calling. Standing up for myself seems to cause a lot of tension between Mrs LRH and me. It could be the way I do it. I'm still learning how.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 3:37 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

Well, here goes. I'm going to head back home in a couple of minutes, try to make her a nice dinner and hopefully we can get back on track. I feel like I abandoned her at a bad time and I need to fix it.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
20WrongsVs1
Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

Standing up for myself seems to cause a lot of tension between Mrs LRH and me. It could be the way I do it. I''m still learning how.

It''s hard. As we change, let''s have compassion for our spouses, and recognize that they need some time to adjust to the "new" us.

Have compassion for yourself, too. As we learn new communication skills, we''re bound to make mistakes. That''s why I''m a proponent of the argument autopsy.

Ultimately, you cannot control BW. You can only control yourself. She calls you nasty names and you feel hurt or angry? Instead of "standing up for yourself," per se, try saying "Ouch." Let her know that even though her words hurt, you recognize she''s probably venting out her pain and frustration, that her feelings are valid, and you''re so sorry you hurt her.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1179 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
toughernow
Member
Member # 40915
Default  Posted: 3:59 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

I will be thinking of you, and Mrs. LRH and hoping for the best.


BS (Me) - 47
WS(Him) -48

Married 23 years - together for 29 years


DDay - June 10th 2012 then TT'd-June 2012 - July 2012 (and beyond????)
2 amazing children

"Understanding love is one of the hardest things in life." - Fred Rogers


Posts: 98 | Registered: Oct 2013
Softcentre
Member
Member # 39166
Default  Posted: 4:28 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

Ok, a coupleof things:

1. Violence directed at another person is not ok...but it sounds like maybe, it just landed near you rather than being thrown at you? That is different, but you both need to recognise how serious it is that it got to that point.And you both need to work out away to stop the argument escalating like that again. But just to reiterate...violence is not ok. And if it was deliberately directed at you, you need to hear that it was not your fault.

2. You say that you''re committed to R...but didn''t you tell her during the argument that you gave up on R months ago?

3. You are not responsible for what she thinks. That smacks of control or co-dependency issues, or possibly a martyr complex. Yes, you made a whole big mess and caused her a whole world of pain. Yes, you need to be there to support her and work together to rebuild your M. But you cannot ''fix'' her. Your BW has to work on her feelings, herself. You can only work on yourself. I do wonder...could it be that you''re focusing on her issues, to avoid looking at yourself? Could that be why she doesn''t feel able to commit to R?

[This message edited by Softcentre at 4:31 PM, March 8th, 2014 (Saturday)]


Me: BW
Him: STBXWH 'The Arse' likes strong but broken OW
OW - EA - 'Holy Chick'
COW - Suspected EA/PA 'The Ambassador'
COW - Susp EA 'The Baker'
COW - EA/PA 'Fat Bottomed Girl'
COW - Susp EA 'MiniMe'

Posts: 993 | Registered: May 2013 | From: UK
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 5:59 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

@Softcentre

1. She did hit me in thenshin with the glass, but she says and I believe, she did not mean to. She aimed for the floor and my keg was in the way. Fortunately, no harm done.

2. Not so much gave up on R, but I'm guilty of becoming somewhat complacent. I've told her over and over that I'm not giving up, but its true that I haven't been as "all in" as I should be

3. I am inclined to be a martyr. I'm looking at that. Good call.

Everybody...we're back under the same roof and sorting this out. We hugged when i got home. Its been so long. Thank youi so much for your support and advice. I'm open to more if you have it.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
bionicgal
Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 7:15 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

No offense, but have ya'll considered that drinking may be part of the issue? It was the wine glass trying to be thrown past the keg that got me there.

Also, sometimes we BSes can think that the WS bears all the burden of the healing -- and needs to do all the work. That isn't sustainable, nor desirable.

Don't take abuse, own your stuff, but your WS has to take an active part in the healing. She can't just sit back and wait for you to make it all better. That seems to be what you are insinuating that she does. We all have to get much smarter about marriage after infidelity -- both partners end up changing, even though the responsibility of the affair is on the WS.


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is more like a mental break than a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 1957 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
LivingLearning
Member
Member # 42637
Default  Posted: 8:10 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

"I can only speak for myself here, but the one thing that I fear the most as a BS is being abandoned. When fWH would walk away from me to focus on his pain...that's when he failed me."

^^This (I don't know yet how to enter in texts from others)

As a BW, I have to point this out regularly. Good for you for going back and trying to mend the situation. I agree with all others about continuing to find new ways to woo her. And know that just because you tried it once, does not mean you shouldn't try again. Sometimes we have to put up boundaries because we are scared to let you in in fear of being hurt again. Continue to be strong and be there for her. Sometimes I say I don't want my WH to be near me, when really I do (and sometimes that is when I need him the most). I do it because I am affraid to let my guard down and seem vulnerable. It is hard to be vulnerable after an A happens. Be patient with her. She deserves it.


Living and learning how to move forward
Me: BGf
Him: WBf
Dday: 02/2013

Posts: 116 | Registered: Mar 2014
IsthereEVERanend
Member
Member # 42216
Default  Posted: 9:53 PM, March 8th (Saturday)

Long road home; no stop sign soooooo.......7 months is nothing. I didn't touch my wife for more than 7 years after a period of HB. Its tough on a BS sometimes to get to the point of becoming able to make that initial contact all over again.
Just don't give up if you are serious about R.
Good luck and best wishes to you.


Me: Older than dirt
FWW 63
DD 8/1990 She confessed to a 2 month ea/pa
Asked forgiveness but volunteered to leave. No way was I going to give her the boot

The eight most feared words used together in the English language: We need to talk. Th


Posts: 88 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Utah
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 6:17 AM, March 9th (Sunday)

No offense, but have ya'll considered that drinking may be part of the issue?

Funny story about this...before we had the couiple of drinks that night we talked about how sometimes our conversations get messy when we drink and maybe we shouldn't have any serious discussions once we have a cocktail.

Now we're thinking maybe we shouldn't have a cocktail if there's any chance of a serious discussion.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 6:25 AM, March 9th (Sunday)

7 months is nothing. I didn't touch my wife for more than 7 years

I get what you're saying. I can imagine how difficult it must be sometimes for a BS to feel and show affection for the WS.

Not for a lack of wanting to R, but that wouikd be waaaay too long to wait for any kind of physical contact for me. Fortunately, I really believe that it would be too long for her as well.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
refuz2bavictim
Member
Member # 27176
Default  Posted: 6:41 AM, March 9th (Sunday)

that wouikd be waaaay too long to wait for any kind of physical contact

What is your "time" limit then?

Keep in mind that for a BS, any limits imposed on the "I'll do anything to fix this" isn't well received.

I'm not saying you don't or shouldn't have a say in how your life is lived, and what you will or won't accept, it's just that limits and conditions imposed by the WS on a situation they caused in the first place should be communicated to the BS. I for one, would have held back on my commitment to R, had my FWh put conditions on elements that were involved in the A, or upon my healing timeline. Part of the healing timeframe involved, was the sex, especially considering that sex is a major component of an A.

His lack of limits and conditions, along with his I will "do anything to fix this" attitude, aided my healing, and allowed me to meet him at the 100% investment in R.

I met him at HIS commitment level. Maybe your wife is meeting you at yours?


BS:ME DDay: 7/18/09 Last of TT 7/11/10
MOW's EA/PA all were my "friends" but one


Posts: 2372 | Registered: Jan 2010
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 8:36 AM, March 9th (Sunday)

What is your "time" limit then?

I don't have one. Seven years just seems to be an awfully long time. That doesn't mean that I could'nt be sitting here after seven years without sex. It also doesn't mean I would give up if that happened. Both of us have talked about how long its been and that we're not happy about it, so I think we're going to work it out before seven years.

This kind of brings back the point of what is really expected of a WS sometimes. If my wife came to me and said that we will have a sexless marriage from now on because of what I did, I would absolutely understand why she would do that. She would also understand that I would not want that for the rest of my life.

There seems to be a skewed view of what makes a marriage after infidelity. There were posters who suggested that I should be OK with the wine glass incident...that I deserve it. It took several posts on this thread before 20wrongs pointed out that physical lashing out is wrong. Many of the BSs who posted here, and whom I truly appreciate, were slow to say that the wine glass shouldn't have been thrown, and some have even said that it wasn't wrong for her to throw it. Even a mod or guide on here suggested in another thread that me making an issue of having a wine glass thrown at me was proof that I was looking to shift blame to my wife. Huh?

We are all guilty of this. WSs are often thought of as a different level of human. We are expected to accept treatment that, if the roles were reversed, would bring cries of "abuse" "call the cops" and "leave.". I understand that a certain amount of tough treatment and the 180 are absolutely necessary when dealing with a new and/or foggy WS, especially shortly after d-day. I, as a remorseful WH, and I really am, have come a long way from the habits and thoughts that led to my A. Many WSs on here have. None of us have to tolerate what we won't tolerate or accept what we can't accept, WSs and BSs alike. I can say to my W that seven years would be far too long without sex and accept that if she needs seven years without sex, then one of us will call it a dealbreaker.

I'm not finished doing my work, but I've done enough to know that I am allowed to have expectations of my marriage and can set limits on how I will be treated. I'm fortunate that my W is not really a violent person, not unrealistic with what she expects me to tolerate. To be honest, she was quicker to express that what she did was wrong than many people on here were, and she not only apologized (as did I for my behavior) but she did it in my love language (the hug.)

I guess I said all of that to remind all of us that WSs have feelings and boundaries too, and that they are just as deserving of respect as a human being as anyone else, and that the further a WS gets into doing their work, the more important it becomes to remember this. Our ICs are telling us to set limits and enforce our boundaries, too.

I really hope that didn't sound too much like a tirade.

I would again like to thank everyone, ESPECIALLY the BSs, who responded.

BSs who take the time to help WSs on these forums are the definition of grace and kindness as far as I'm concerned...whether we agree or not your input is valued and welcome.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 8:59 AM, March 9th (Sunday)

longroadhome,

I've read through this thread, and without doing so again, I think you may have misinterpreted some of the comments. I didn't see anyone saying that throwing the glass was ok, or that you deserved it. I'm not going to go double check that, so there may have been one, but when I read your post, it seems that if a person wasn't saying that it absolutely was flat out wrong, then it was ok. There is something else.

As a WS that wants R, you are asking your BS to understand that you cheated, that you are remorseful, and that you will not do it again. Understand - that's the one. It read to me that many posters, while not cheering for more wine glasses to be thrown, seemed to be saying that you may be able to understand why your BS did something that is not acceptable, and by your own admission, out of character. This is not to say that it's an ok action, or that you need to accept it, but perhaps some empathy for the confusion that a BS feels and that it can unfortunately drive a person to do things that are out of character and unacceptable.

There was alcohol involved, and a heated escalation that you admit you helped escalate. None of us know what was said, or how it escalated, and nothing would make a person say "Oh, well then, it's good she threw glass at you." it can help fully understand the mindset of a person when a full picture is presented. Regardless, you did say there was quite a long, escalating discussion before this happened.

I just wanted to offer a different possibility, one that isn't so black and white.

I'm not advocating abuse of any kind. I just think that many of the posters here may have been painted with a brush that says that a WS must accept anything a BS feels like doing. I don't believe that is true. I think maybe it's easier for a BS to understand how a person can get to the point of throwing a wine glass. Not saying it's a good thing, or that you just need to take it, but that a person, when mentally shaken, is capable of things that they aren't normally capable of.


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1893 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
refuz2bavictim
Member
Member # 27176
Default  Posted: 9:15 AM, March 9th (Sunday)

To be honest, she was quicker to express that what she did was wrong than many people on here were, and she not only apologized (as did I for my behavior) but she did it in my love language (the hug.)

Which is why, when it really comes down to it, this isn't the real focus. It's not ok. But it's not the focus. Who is more wrong about what is a time waster when you consider the big picture.

It probably won't surprise you that, I slapped my FWH across the face on Dday. I watched my own hand rise up and make contact as though I had no control. I did, but it certainly seemed as though I was an observer, though it was my hand, under my control. I was as shocked as he was.
First and last time. We had never laid a hand on one another, and up to that point, I had not been the type of person to express my emotions physically. His response to his challenges was to have an A. My response to the hurt of the A was (for a moment) a slap. Bad responses all around, not to be compared.

He allowed me to marinate in my own wrong doing, until I came to him with an apology. He like you, felt he deserved it, until I told him that this was not true.

I will say that he never used that incident to shift focus from the main issue. And while my behavior was mine, he was too busy worrying about his. The ownership of my behavior had little to do with his ownership of his. Each was handled separately.

At the time, his lack of reaction, no anger, no call for me to atone, deflated the shit out of my indignant anger. His patience, allowed me to understand better. My apology was driven by me.


At any rate, it sounds that since the initial event you have both done some communicating. No need to rush. Cut out the booze for while maybe. That should help.

Good luck to you both in your journey to R.


BS:ME DDay: 7/18/09 Last of TT 7/11/10
MOW's EA/PA all were my "friends" but one


Posts: 2372 | Registered: Jan 2010
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, March 9th (Sunday)

a person, when mentally shaken, is capable of things that they aren't normally capable of
.

Agree with this. I also hit my husband on DDay1. By Dday2 I was not surprised and much calmer and just asked for a divorce. I will leave him if I ever hit him again. I would not be a safe person to be with.

Speaking as a wayward, at 4 years out, my husband still has fits of anger. We are both trying to recover and are 100% committed to recovery. Yet, we still don't know if we will stay married so I'm not sure you should be too worried when your wife says she's still unsure.

We are giving it all we can. But that doesn't mean we'll be successful.

What waywards do is such a big thing that it can't be ignored. it's the elephant in the room for a long long long time. I don't think many waywards get that. What we did is life changing for both spouses, soul changing for the BS most likely. Patience and humility are needed....

[This message edited by rachelc at 10:07 AM, March 9th (Sunday)]


his Dday: 2/10
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4926 | Registered: Dec 2010
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, March 9th (Sunday)

painfulpast

I think you may have misinterpreted some of the comments

No...it was six responses in this thread before anybody even addressed that a wine glass broke against my leg. I'm not trying to demonize my W at all here, just trying to point out that the consensus initially was that it was no big deal...and again in another thread which I will not specifically point to (my W and I still don't want to have everyone know who our spouses are on here - I know that some of you have obviously figured it out) it was very specifically stated that I should get over it. I believe the phrase "poor baby" was used sarcastically. A guide on this forum did say what I mentioned in my other post. I am not here to name names and am only pointing out these things to make the point that, even if unconsciously, WSs are expected to let things roll off of our backs that nobody would expect of anyone else in any kind of relationship.

and refuz2bavictim

He allowed me to marinate in my own wrong doing, until I came to him with an apology

This is exactly what I did, I just did it from a place where neither of us could escalate anything further. And, BTW, I went home and apologized first for leaving, then she immediately apologized for what she did and we hugged for a good long tme. I acknowledge that there is more to this.

Once again, my W is not a violent person, this is out of character for her in a big way, she owns it, she did not mean for the glass to hit me and she knows that I do understand where the anger comes from and that I own that.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, March 9th (Sunday)

rachaelc

Patience and humility are needed....

Agreed. This is actually something that I specifically said to my W last night - that I'm not doing well with humility and I need to change how I'm handling when she gets angry.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
20WrongsVs1
Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 10:56 AM, March 9th (Sunday)

This is Wayward Side, and LRH posted here looking for support and guidance. I''m sorry he got so little.

I''ve read through this thread, and without doing so again, I think you may have misinterpreted some of the comments. I didn''t see anyone saying that throwing the glass was ok, or that you deserved it.

painfulpast, what is your point? His interpretation is valid. So are his feelings. Unlike you, I did read through the thread again. Not one poster validated LRH''s feelings. Not one poster said, "I can see why you''d be angry about that." The few posters who mentioned it said "she was wrong to throw the glass...but." LRH was accused of "abandoning" his BW. Not one poster gave him credit for peacefully ending the conflict by stepping away from a dangerously-heated situation that both partners created.

I just think that many of the posters here may have been painted with a brush that says that a WS must accept anything a BS feels like doing.

So what? This isn''t their thread. It''s LRH''s. Most of the posters have empathized with his BW. This isn''t her thread. It''s LRH''s. He''s been diplomatic and gracious in the face of almost unanimous criticism. If his behavior in this thread is any indication of how he handles conflict with his BW, he''s on the right track.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1179 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 11:07 AM, March 9th (Sunday)

We had a different way of looking at the same comments. I thought he was perhaps getting frustrated with SI, or at least some of the posters, and maybe there was a different way to see it.

He's already responded to my comments. It didn't seem like such an issue to him. I'm sorry you want this to be more than me thinking there may be more than one way to see something.

I was clear that there was no justifying abuse.

As you said, it's LRH's thread, and he responded to me, in a respectful manner.

Thank you.


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1893 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, March 9th (Sunday)

20wrongs and painfulpast

What you're both saying has a lot of validity, which is exactly my point in posting some of the things I have. I think there is an important debate to be had here.

And please, nobody think that I'm painting all BSs with the same brush. I am guilty of generalizing a bit, mostly because it requires fewer words and I'm sure you've all noticed that I'm capable of some interesting typos.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
toughernow
Member
Member # 40915
Default  Posted: 11:26 AM, March 9th (Sunday)

I just really need some help and insight. I'm losing her and I don't know what to do from here. She can't get past the anger and sadness that I caused her. She can't see me as anything other than the person who hurt her. I can't find a way to not be hurt when I am defined over and over only by the worst thing I've ever done.

She used to be sweet, kind, loving, supportive and hopeful. Now she's just angry. Because of my dumb ass.

I dont want to give up, but I don't want either of us to hurt anymore.

This is the part of LRH's post that I concentrated on. Because this was the part of the post where he was asking for help.There was no stop sign so I shared my thoughts as a BS...the only perspective I have really. I reread through my responses and respectfully 20wrongsVs1 I can't see where I invalidated his feelings.


BS (Me) - 47
WS(Him) -48

Married 23 years - together for 29 years


DDay - June 10th 2012 then TT'd-June 2012 - July 2012 (and beyond????)
2 amazing children

"Understanding love is one of the hardest things in life." - Fred Rogers


Posts: 98 | Registered: Oct 2013
SpotlessMind
Member
Member # 41775
Default  Posted: 11:39 AM, March 9th (Sunday)

Hi LRH--

It looks like you've received lots of feedback already.

I just wanted to chime in and say that I'm sorry you and your BS had to experience such a heated argument. Those are so rough. Like others have mentioned--throwing a glass at you is absolutely not ok, and I think leaving to keep things from escalating was a very good choice.

My husband and I have had our share of heated arguments, and both of our ICs suggested that one of us physically remove ourselves before they escalate. In order to prevent any feelings of abandonment, the partner who leaves is to hand the other partner a pre-written note, that says something like, "I'm leaving for a short time because I am afraid of the hurtful things we might say while we are angry. I love you." This really helped us bc before that, my husband might storm out saying he was "done." I would think he meant he was done with our relationship, when what he meant was he was done with the argument at that time.

As for your BS not feeling your work/commitment--I can relate to that as well, as there are definitely moments when I worry my husband is becoming a little complacent. When this happens to me, the way I really feel better is by doing my own work, because that is something I can control.

The other thing i noticed is that my husband is much more likely to do "the work" when I tell him exactly what that work looks like to me. Does your wife have any specific things she's requesting of you, and if so, are you willing to do them? If she just has a vague sense of "you need to do more"--well, that's a tough one. Needs usually need to be articulated before they can be met.

[This message edited by SpotlessMind at 11:42 AM, March 9th (Sunday)]


fWS/BS--me
BH/WH--him
Married: 12 yrs
D-Day: October
Kids: yes

Posts: 277 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Where am I?
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 11:39 AM, March 9th (Sunday)

I reread through my responses and respectfully 20wrongsVs1 I can't see where I invalidated his feelings.

For the record, I did not feel invalidated. In fact, I think I went out if the way to validate my own feelings a couple of times.

All input is welcome and appreciated. I really do believe there's an important topic in play here.

Please keep the comments coming...


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
Lovedyoumore
Member
Member # 35593
Default  Posted: 11:47 AM, March 9th (Sunday)

I just really need some help and insight. I'm losing her and I don't know what to do from here. She can't get past the anger and sadness that I caused her. She can't see me as anything other than the person who hurt her. I can't find a way to not be hurt when I am defined over and over only by the worst thing I've ever done.

In my other post I was hoping to answer the above issue for you. I was not condoning anything. I felt you had started to deflect away from your request for insight about her anger by focusing on the wine glass incident. The glass being thrown was a response, not very mature, but a response to something. We have no idea what was going on or why your argument escalated, but she lost control. I did not feel your original post was asking for apologies or sympathy for the glass being thrown at you or whether we thought it was right or wrong. You started asking what you could do for your wife and then made it about you.

Back to the above quote. I have no idea if you had a complete confessional DDay or if you had a long, drawn out DDay with multiple TT additions. You know that R is not a linear progression. Within the general stages some of us require a few side trips to evaluate our lives. The biggest mistake you can make right now is to stand in front of her, tapping your foot, while waiting for her to move on. You do not want to be defined your A. I understand that and maybe someday your wife will be able to look at you without that in front of her. Right now her reality and yours has the A front and center because she has unhealed wounds. Give her unconditional love without a time frame. In her reality, given the A trauma, time has been suspended. Do not define her for the worst thing she has ever done either.


Me 52
WH 52
Married 30+ years
Together trying to R

I tell people I am tired but really my heart is broken and I am sad.


Posts: 1473 | Registered: May 2012 | From: Southern, bless your heart
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 11:48 AM, March 9th (Sunday)

a pre-written note, that says something like, "I'm leaving for a short time because I am afraid of the hurtful things we might say while we are angry. I love you."

This^^^is freakin' awesome!


The other thing i noticed is that my husband is much more likely to do "the work" when I tell him exactly what that work looks like to me. Does your wife have any specific things she's requesting of you, and if so, are you willing to do them? If she just has a vague sense of "you need to do more"--well, that's a tough one. Needs usually need to be articulated before they can be met

We've had this discussion and, unfortunately, no, she doesn't have specific needs that she's expressing. Shell point out what she doesn't like, but she doesn't know what she needs instead. She's not doing it on purpose. I actually think that one of the things that she needs is to not have to tell me, for me to figure out on my own whatbto change.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, March 9th (Sunday)

I felt you had started to deflect away from your request for insight about her anger by focusing on the wine glass incident

I really didn't mean to, but I can understand how you could think that.

My shift to the incident was more about the general theme of WSs being expected to not have a reaction to an incident like this. I'm really no trying to whine about not feeling validated here. As my W and I resolved the situation, I was just finding it interesting to examine how this was responded to.

I stand by the statement that if a BS posted the same opening sentences that I did in the General forum, it would have been ALL about the wine glass. In fact if a couple unaffected by As had one partner tell their friends that info from my first post, I suspect that the Wine glass would be the primary topic.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, March 9th (Sunday)

LRH, I read your thread last night and refrained from commenting to see how things panned out(well, that and I had consumed my own share of adult beverages). I was impressed by your reactions and dismayed by hers. Anger? OK, violence? NEVER!

There is absolutely no history of this behavior from her. She is not this person.

she did not really intend to hurt me.

Damn do those sound familiar.

my wife is not a violent person.

??? Will she be seeking IC to discover why she is escalating?

Again, nice job defusing the situation.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2842 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, March 9th (Sunday)

Will she be seeking IC to discover why she is escalating?

Not sure. MC has worked much better for her than IC, and we do have that little unemployment issue to contend with.

I was impressed by your reactions and dismayed by hers

To be fair, she has apologized and shown genuine regret for having reacted that way, and she did very much feel abandoned by me when I left. That's a big trigger for her. Nobody was the 100% good guy, nobody was the 100% bad guy.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
painfulpast
Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, March 9th (Sunday)

LRH, I think you're correct. I think, on some other message boards, you would have gotten those responses even with your background known.

I'm not justifying abuse. It's an inappropriate way to handle a situation, regardless of the type of abuse.

But -

I believe the reason you don't get those reactions on SI is that all members are affected by infidelity. The members either were involved in an A, or or we had a spouse that was in an A. Either way, we are all from ground zero in the world of A. That doesn't change the acceptance of violence. It does, however, give us each a much more intimate knowledge of the damage an A can cause to the BS. A damaged person is often treated with kid gloved in certain scenarios.

I'm going to post a few examples for effect. I am NOT saying that a WS is equal to the people in these examples:

A young man is walking down the street. He sees an older man on the other side of the road. He runs across the street, causing traffic to screech to a halt. He tackles the man and begins punching him. A few other men run over and grab the young man off of the old man.

The young man is wrong. You cannot go beating people. You want him arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law for assault. You then discover that this man raped this young man's 5 year old daughter. The beating is still not justified, but suddenly there is compassion and understanding for this young man.

An middle aged woman is walking through a parking lot and sees a man her own age headed to his car in the lot. She runs behind the man's car, refusing to let him back out. She is screaming and demanding he get out. He is clearly a little afraid and starts his car. She climbs on the trunk and is still screaming obscenities. He tries to back out with the woman on his car. She grabs something from her purse, puts it just about inside his drivers side window and suddenly she's spraying him with mace. You and a crowd are standing around, watching this woman lose her mind, screaming. You're all laughing a little and trying to figure out just what this man did. There are guesses - he cheated, he dumped her, he dumped her while owing her money, etc. The whole crowd is waiting to see just what this guy did to cause this woman to attack him. The police arrive and arrest her. You all then discover that this man did nothing. They don't know each other. She is a dangerous person that needs help.

You see, there are certain scenarios where we almost assume that a physical attack can occur. We all know violence is not the answer, in any way. But, we also know human nature, and certain things can push someone to a place they normally would never go. Conversely, violence is condemned because the woman I discussed, whom everyone assumed had been wronged, had done nothing. Until that was announced, all of the bystanders assumed that there was something that had pushed her, and while the reaction was not appropriate, it wasn't shocking - until no reason for her attack was given.

Your wife throwing an object at you is not acceptable, nor is it appropriate. However, you did clarify, more than once, that a physical attack was extremely out of character for her, almost to let us know that this was not an ongoing issue, and you also let us know you weren't hurt. Knowing these two facts, freely given by you, the victim of the attack, it appeared that this was a case of 'temporary insanity', and a case of it that was created by a subject we all understand all too well.

This doesn't make what happened acceptable, and it shouldn't be 'expected', so to speak, but it can be understood based on the mindset. You let us know there was a 90 minute escalating argument that you definitely helped escalate. To this group, that has been there, done that, that is enough to gain an understanding of her mindset, and how it was most likely not where it should be, or would be under normal circumstances.

This, followed by the fact that this was totally out of character, and that you were not hurt, both mentioned voluntarily, it could be read that this wasn't the point of your posting as you actually said it was your fault and that you seemed, in the beginning, more interested in helping her anger and how to move forward.

You are correct, people didn't come out first saying that physical abuse is not acceptable, but I believe only one thought you should have stayed in the same location as your wife. Perhaps it was two, but it wasn't the majority.

In short, some people here may have seen the posts, determined (without much thinking) that it was a one time incident, you stated it was your fault (not really possible, but another person can bring a person to a mental state of temporary insanity), and that you were not hurt, and focused on the other items you discussed.

Just a possibility, and once more - I am not advocating violence in any situation. It is not how things should be handled.

Further, being a WS does not mean that physical abuse is acceptable any more than being a very busy, someone inattentive spouse that has somewhat let themselves go since the wedding day deserves to be cheated on. The people that perpetrate these acts are at fault. We all own our actions. We cannot control another.

I hope this makes some sense, and isn't just a lot of rambling.

t/j - LRH, I think it's great that you enjoy the discussion/debate aspects of this site. For me, it's how I learn the most and how I'm best able to see different points of view. Thank you for opening this up to all.


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1893 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
peoplepleaser
Member
Member # 41535
Default  Posted: 12:36 PM, March 9th (Sunday)

I skimmed the other responses, so if I repeat I apologize.

I love the variety of viewpoints expressed, as they are all valid and provide a good breadth of things to consider.

It's ibvious by your post and responses that you love her and want to do what's best for both of you. As a BS I have been moved to do things out of character as well. The pain, anger, humiliation, fear of abandonment, realization of abandonment, and need to be understood are all cloudy and overwhelming. You are in a very difficult position, as you have your own forms of these same feelings.

Ultimately you are both responsible for your actions. We resort to aggressive responses (I'm including As here because they are emotionally aggressive) when we are out of tools to deal with the situation and feel helpless. Gaining tools to deal with extreme emotions and situations is what needs to happen in R. IC and MC are the most obvious ways if doing that. However, we can't gain these tools until we accept responsibility and take accountability for the damaging things we've done in place of them. Until we realize it's not ok or even justifiable what we did we aren't in a position to change. That doesn't mean that our actions can't be understood or even empathized with. You can understand how she got to the point if throwing the wine glass without condoning the action, just as she can understand how things in you and your life led to the A without condoning it.

I'm wondering if you have shared with her what you shared here. If I had thrown it a response that would make me listen might go like this, "I can see that you are really frustrated. I feel responsible for this change I've seen in you and it bothers me greatly. You aren't the kind of person who would react this way. I love you and I want to help you heal from this. I want our love back. I want the kindness we showed each other back. I can't believe I did this to you. What can I do right now that will help?"

I'm not familiar with not responding to shows of affection or comfort. My WS asks permission at times before hugging me, which does help, though. I like the idea of reading the Five Love Languages to determine how she best receives love. How has she responded best in the past?

A risk at showing complete vulnerability and humility with regard to making her feel special again might help too. You mentioned feeling some detachment, which makes sense. Why risk total vulnerability when you might be rejected? However, when I think of all the risks taken by WS at the expense of our relationship it pains me to think that the risk of total vulnerability and humbleness to save it might not be worth it to WS. The anxiety, discomfort, careful planning, balancing of life and emotional space to make another person feel special while risking the family life we worked so hard to build is excruciating. What can you do to show her the same level of intensity and energy to risk saving the relationship? To make her feel special? She may view you as someone willing to step so far beyond who you really are in an effort to woo someone else, so what can you do to step outside of your comfort zone to do that for her?

Just my thoughts. I hope you find a way to reach her. Once you do, I think you might find a strength and an ability in her that you never thought was there or possible. I wish that for both of you.


WS: 39--2 EAs
BS: 39--me, faithful
DS: 6
9 year relationship in R.
DDay #1: September 6, 2013 EA for 5 weeks August 2013.
DDay #2: January 2, 2014 EA for 6 weeks summer 2011.
"I am still learning." -Michelangelo

Posts: 609 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Midwest
DixieD
Member
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, March 9th (Sunday)

LRH, I'm sorry to hear you and your wife are going through a hard time. You joined SI around the same time we did, and I've hoped good things for you both.

You mentioned there is a disconnect now and has been for a while. I read your wife's thread and she mentioned several things that seemed to be important to her. A need for validation for one. She also said something that was important to her and she's talked to you about it, and she feels you are dismissing her concerns. And unless I've missed it, your thread has made no mention of it.

Clearly, you haven't been on the same page for a while and there are problems with communication. Just reading your wife's thread, THIS doesn't quite add up.

We've had this discussion and, unfortunately, no, she doesn't have specific needs that she's expressing. Shell point out what she doesn't like, but she doesn't know what she needs instead.

Maybe she's not expressing herself clearly with "I need XYZ" which can be hard for some people, or maybe you haven't been listening. And maybe part of it is to do with this.

Not so much gave up on R, but I'm guilty of becoming somewhat complacent. I've told her over and over that I'm not giving up, but its true that I haven't been as "all in" as I should be

So, what are you going to do about that?

This crap is tiring after a while on both sides. Is it a case of thinking 3 years in it should be better now, yet it's not and that is discouraging?

I hope I don''t come across like I'm picking sides, because I'm not doing that. Wish the best for you both.


Growing forward

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2011
refuz2bavictim
Member
Member # 27176
Default  Posted: 1:10 PM, March 9th (Sunday)

I went home and apologized first for leaving, then she immediately apologized for what she did and we hugged for a good long tme.

Good stuff right there.


BS:ME DDay: 7/18/09 Last of TT 7/11/10
MOW's EA/PA all were my "friends" but one


Posts: 2372 | Registered: Jan 2010
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 1:32 PM, March 9th (Sunday)

Your wife throwing an object at you is not acceptable,

So again, intent is everything here. She threw it at the ground, the fact that bit hit me was not her intent. I keep making a point of clarifying this because I want everyone to know and understand the kind of person my W is. Literally won't hurt a fly. She felt gaslighted again because I admitted to not putting in the effort to R that I claimed to be. She had a very valid reason to be angry. Throwing a glass in any direction, even away from where I was sitting, was, as even she Has said, not the best choice. She told me that she had no intention if the glass hitting me, and I believe her because I know her. I really don't want her to feel like I've made her out to be an irrational person. I do understand how it went down and that I contributed a great deal to how she was feeling in that moment.

And yes, the circumstances do dictate that we should all feel compassion for the BSs on here. Even the ones who made a bad decision to hit or throw things or slash tires or whatever. Poor choices are still poor choices. I made some HUGE poor choixes, so I get it. Nothing justifies what I did. There is no reasoning that can make it OK. Are you as a BS allowed to hold yourself to an different standard?

[This message edited by longroadhome at 4:04 PM, March 9th (Sunday)]


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 1:48 PM, March 9th (Sunday)

Poor choices are still poor choices. I made some HUGE poor choixes, so I get it. Nothing justifies what I did. There is no reasoning that can make it OK. Are you as a BS allowed to hold yourself to an different standard?

Nope, I am and will be held accountable for ALL my choices. By myself first. Everyone should be. No one is exempt.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2842 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 1:57 PM, March 9th (Sunday)

Nope, I am and will be held accountable for ALL my choices. By myself first. Everyone should be. No one is exempt.

Bravo, and thank you 5454real. This is exactly my point. This is exactly one of the things I'm so proud of my W for...because even with people telling her that it was OK to throw the glass, that I deserved it, etc, SHE continued to say no, it was wrong to do that.

I just fear that some (not all by any means) BSs start to feel that whatever they say or do, especially pertaining to their WS, is justified because of their pain. That, my friends is what wayward thinking is...that's how we all got here.

[This message edited by longroadhome at 1:58 PM, March 9th (Sunday)]


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
20WrongsVs1
Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 3:30 PM, March 9th (Sunday)

Some...BSs start to feel that whatever they say or do, especially pertaining to their WS, is justified because of their pain. That...is wayward thinking

IMO timing is an important consideration. In the first, IDK, 6-12 months? The BS should get a ton of latitude. It''s important for a BS to vent out his/her anger, and it''s important for we WS to "hear their pain" instead of focusing on their words.

But it''s also important for both partners to be honest about their feelings, and to validate each others'' feelings. Validation doesn''t equal agreement, it just means, "Yeah, I can see how you would feel that way." So I can see why a BS would scream obscenities at their WS, be tempted to throw things, etc. But the WS also has every right to feel hurt by that, and say so!

If R is to succeed, ultimately the hurtful words need to stop and/or be atoned for. To answer your OP, yes, both spouses need to be "all in." Hopefully this incident, and the post-mortem analysis, will bring you two together.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1179 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 3:59 PM, March 9th (Sunday)

t/j

20,

The BS should get a ton of latitude. It''s important for a BS to vent out his/her anger, and it''s important for we WS to "hear their pain" instead of focusing on their words.

I don't disagree with any of what you are saying, yet I want to reiterate what I said before. I am responsible for my actions. I accept and take responsibility for them. Lord knows I am far from perfect and there are things in my life that I am not proud of, yet they are and remain mine. My responsibility to atone and make amends where I have crossed lines. I don't want latitude for behavior that is inherently unacceptable. Deliberately causing hurt to another human being just because I am hurting, while understandable, remains mine to own.

t/j

LRH,

SHE continued to say no, it was wrong to do that.

Awesome


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2842 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
outside4me
Member
Member # 42430
Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, March 9th (Sunday)

BS here. I don't disagree with the idea that BS should get some latitude to vent/get the bile out, but totally agree with 5454Real in that everyone is responsible for their own actions. Everyone experiences emotions... its what you choose to do about the emotion that matters. I might have attraction towards another woman, but I put up boundaries so it doesn't degrade into a betrayal of my marriage vows. I might be angry with my WW, but I don't call her names or hit her. One doesn't have control over thoughts and emotions, but we certainly do have control over what we do, and are accountable for our actions, IMHO.

Posts: 218 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Colorado
20WrongsVs1
Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 4:56 PM, March 9th (Sunday)

Deliberately causing hurt to another human being just because I am hurting, while understandable, remains mine to own.

That statement beautifully sums up what I hope we can all take away from this thread. And SI, and life in general.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1179 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
k94ever
Member
Member # 11176
Default  Posted: 6:05 PM, March 9th (Sunday)

At some point in their recovery, BS's MUST make the decision to move out of their comfort zone of being hurt and start living again.

Hanging on to that hurt keeps you trapped and reliving the betrayal.

I'm not saying to get over it, rather we have to learn to let it (the betrayal) become a part of our story and learn to live again.

k9


BS: 56
WS: 53
Betrayed: 23 years
Affairs: 14 (2 lasted 3 months. Rest were ONS)
WS died: 16 May 2011
Do not stay in your hurt forever. Choose to move out of it.

Posts: 6545 | Registered: Jul 2006 | From: Wisconsin
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 6:16 PM, March 9th (Sunday)

5454, outside, k9

Brilliant! I hope that I can attain your level of understanding - I'm working on it. Owning your actions in the face of pain is the kind of thing that keeps me in awe of the BSs on this forum...including Mrs LRH, who is right now on the couch with the cat laying on her giving her a "kitty hug" and talking in her "kitty voice.". The cat people know what I'm talking about.

Moments like this are when my heart breaks the most for the pain I caused her.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 6:19 PM, March 9th (Sunday)

Hanging on to that hurt keeps you trapped and reliving the betrayal.

Truth!

This is exactly the kind of thing that I wish for Mrs LRH...to let go of the pain and just find some peace within herself. I'll remember how badly I treated her long enough for the both of us.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
Shayna71
Member
Member # 42105
Default  Posted: 2:07 PM, March 10th (Monday)

First, let me say, while reading this entire thread the things that stuck out to me in the end was how your comments about the thrown wine glass evolved. First you just mentioned that you were angry that she threw it at you (and I can get how you were, but I think you might have been more upset that she was so emotionally not her self that she threw it) Then as people started to say how wrong it was, how physical abuse is never to be tolerated, how she has to own her actions, etc., you focused on how she is NOT like this, how you both played a part in your conversation getting to that point, how alcohol played a part, again and again how this is not what your wife's character is, and how she explained she didn't mean to hit you, and was sorry. As a BS, it made me feel like you were defending her, making sure people knew what kind of a person she was, wanting everyone to understand that she wasn't like this before. That's what all BS want. They want to know that there partner has their back, and you obviously do.

I just really need some help and insight. I'm losing her and I don't know what to do from here. She can't get past the anger and sadness that I caused her. She can't see me as anything other than the person who hurt her. I can't find a way to not be hurt when I am defined over and over only by the worst thing I've ever done.

I hope I can help with this. We are only 5 months from DDay, and sometimes I feel like I'm going to "jinx" myself by posting. I think we are doing really well. I have all the typical issues with trust, and triggers, and all that, but H has done everything he can to make things right, and continues to. I thought on DDay when I read that R can take 6 months to 2 years how ridiculously LONG that seemed. no WAY was it going to take me that long. I know now how wrong I was, but I feel like we don't' go from 0 on DDay to 100 in X amount of time. It gets better little by little. A little less mistrust, a little less crying, a little less anger, a little more affection, etc.

I see many BS on here that say they were on the fence for months, or a year, or even longer, so I can see it is valid but for me it wasn't acceptable. I don't see how someone could be undecided for so long. I totally get needing time for clearer heads to prevail, but after awhile aren't you just wasting your time? Your energy and effort has to go somewhere. You have to be focused on something, at least I did. Either working on R, or working on D. When I start questioning myself, it is FEAR, plain and simple. Fear that letting him in again, letting down my guard, putting MY emotions IN again, will get me hurt again.

I can't speak for you wife, but as a BS I can say this: I feel the most confident when I feel my husbands engagement fully. I am most hopeful, and most positive, when he is obvious about his motivations and feelings. It's hard for him to express his feelings, at least the ones that hurt. He didn't get at first that I needed to hear some things again and again and AGAIN, because they do "bounce off". We believed you when you said them before, but you were lying, so now you're going to need to say them ALOT before we can really feel them. "I love you" is one, so is "I'm committed", but the biggest one is "I'm SO SORRY" It also helps to hear from you WHY you are here with me...what makes ME special to you...tell her exactly what you admire, respect, like, love about her.

As far as the gifts thing goes, I realize you are out of work, but I doubt that your wife means "I want some expensive jewelry and a new car". I think she means, "I want you to show me that you get me, that you know what means something to me, that you can be thoughtful and take the time and effort to make a gesture to me." You KNOW your wife. What would mean something to her? Maybe a book she would enjoy, or a framed picture of your family, or a picnic lunch on the weekend? My favorite would be a long letter from my H. You can come up with something that doesn't cost alot of money, but she values greatly.

IMO - If she didn't still care, she wouldn't have thrown the glass, she would have downed it, refilled it, and walked out of the room.

One more thing - i have never in my adult life beef physically violent with anyone, or even come close. A few months after DDay, I say this and H says, "Yes, you slapped me" I guess I slapped him in the face on DDay. He was saying how awful he was, how he was just a bad person, and basically feeling sorry for himself, and I slapped him and told him to stop feeling sorry for himself and quit making excuses. Not hard, I guess, but enough to get his attention. To this day, I have no memory of the slap, and only a vague recollection of that part of the conversation. I'm not saying violence is excusable, but there ARE extreme conditions when peoples mental condition plays a role in their ability to make decisions, or control themselves.

Good luck to you 2

[This message edited by Shayna71 at 2:16 PM, March 10th (Monday)]


Me: BW 46
Him: WH 42
3 month EA and PA w/a mutual friend
DDay 09/20/2013
Married over 20 years
DS 26, DS, 19 DD, 18
Currently in R

Posts: 125 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Indiana
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 2:58 PM, March 10th (Monday)

Thank you, Shayna, for all of the great insight and suggestions. I'm glad you fimdnyourself able to fully commit to R after such a short time.

Yes, it's VERY important to me that everyone understand what kind of person she is, and also that she feel comfortable that I represent her fairly. Just because I was pissed at the wine glass thing and needed to give us both a little space in the moment doesn't mean I consider her abusive or even a risk to be around.

In fact, I still really LIKE being around her!

[This message edited by longroadhome at 2:59 PM, March 10th (Monday)]


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
Topic Posts: 71