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Wayward Side
User Topic: Wants access to my journal
WaywardWifeToWH
New Member
Member # 42808
Default  Posted: 3:09 AM, April 7th (Monday)

My wayward asked for access to my journal which I've kept for many years. It has A LOT of venting and toxic feelings that I just like to get out, so they are not in my system anymore. Just getting them out releases the toxicity and allows me to look over it and figure out why I'm feeling that way.

I told him I would think about it. I'm really torn because I feel this should remain private and be my own personal sounding board. It was NOT the reason I had an affair. Yes, false thoughts and feelings get written down there, but it isn't the SOURCE of those issues... I am.

Whenever I have shared passages from it, particularly ones I feel are especially hopeful to our R, he'll find one turn of phrase he takes issue with and blows it all out of proportion.

I feel if I share it all, it will be all over, because, yes, there are rants I wouldn't ever want to share. They are for me, to get them out and analyze myself and my feelings/actions. Like screaming into a pillow. Then, when I've "come down" from more emotional states, I share what I've learned from my own self reflections.

He feels that's a lack of transparency. Is that true? Am I in the wrong here?

[This message edited by WaywardWifeToWH at 4:49 AM, April 13th (Sunday)]


Posts: 3 | Registered: Mar 2014
heartache101
Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 6:26 AM, April 7th (Monday)

Wow. Idk I wouldnt want my spouse to read what I have journaled. I have called him every name there is!
Maybe a good marriage counselor?


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3187 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
Stillkicking
Member
Member # 38246
Default  Posted: 6:48 AM, April 7th (Monday)

Hey, this is something that you could let him read, basically entails your exact post and has some pretty valid points.

https://www.affairrecovery.com/newsletter/founder/infidelity-recovery-snooping-wont-help?utm_source=Article%20of%20the%20Week&utm_campaign=091c17252d-aotw_01_23_2014&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_ba782628b7-091c17252d-312852593

Hope it helps and good luck


You'll never learn to fly
until your standing at the cliff

I reserve my right to feel uncomfortable reserve my right to be afraid.
I make mistakes and I am humbled every step of the way.


Posts: 128 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Canada
StrongerOne
Member
Member # 36915
Default  Posted: 7:35 AM, April 7th (Monday)

BS here.

No. Do not share your journal.

That's a violation of your privacy. I do not believe that the BS gets to own every little bit of WS's privacy. You hear on this forum a lot: Those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing. Well, that's just not true. We all have ugly thoughts, say things we regret...we do not have to share every single one of those.

My H does not know about or read any of my posts on SI. Those are *mine*.

I talk on the phone with my SIL in another room where he can't hear -- because those are *my* private conversations with one of my very best friends.

I kept an online journal the first year after DDay. Some of it I shared with him. And some I did not. That was my decision.

People vent here on SI all the time without sharing those vents with their WS. Or with their BS.

Everyone needs a safe space. WS and BS.

Share anything else. Keep your safe space.


DDay Feb 2011.
In R.

Posts: 863 | Registered: Sep 2012
obliquestrat
Member
Member # 42165
Default  Posted: 2:20 PM, April 7th (Monday)

There isn't an objective sense of what's wrong or right, just a subjective sense of what's wrong or right for the couple.

For me, I would not tolerate a secret journal, and would absolutely consider it a potential resentment-building machine.


ME: BS 36 - HER: WS 33
TOGETHER: 2001 - MARRIED: 2008 - KIDS: 2 (3 and 1)
D-DAY: 1/6/2014 (accidentally discovered 3M EA which had developed into sexting, makeouts, tickets for biz trip to Disneyworld)
R, IC, MC, NC (coworker)

Posts: 109 | Registered: Jan 2014
notquiteoverit
Member
Member # 32919
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, April 7th (Monday)

My suggestion is to let him read it. I can't speak for your BS, but as a BS myself I really wanted to understand my WS more, and I also needed to confirm that he wasn't hiding things.

If you don't let him read it, he may feel that you are hiding something. On the other hand, letting him read it shows that you truly want to be transparent to him. Maybe agree to let him read it in sections, and then discuss it in counseling.


Me - BS 50
Him - WS 49
SOW - 52 destitute loser
D-day 1/28/11

Posts: 573 | Registered: Jul 2011
ncharge
Member
Member # 42365
Default  Posted: 3:37 PM, April 7th (Monday)


I'm a BS and I wouldn't let him read it. Journals include venting that is fleeting in nature. I journal too and I certainly wouldn't want my spouse to read things that were just my spewing of toxic waste products. Some I mean today, some I just wanted to say, some I meant then but not now. Someone who read my journal would get a highly skewed sense of who I really am. That journal shows only the extreme parts of me.

And yes, the WS gives up privacy in their relationships with other people, but they still are human begins with a need for safe personal expression.


Posts: 101 | Registered: Feb 2014
Wodnships
Member
Member # 42750
Default  Posted: 3:40 PM, April 7th (Monday)

BS here. I'm a little bit torn on this. Sometimes it's easy to think every piece of information will help us figure things out. The truth is there is nothing that is going to make an affair make sense. It was a illogical mess. The more you try to make logical sense out of it the less sense it makes.

One of the things that has been most difficult for me is while I was looking at my wife's Facebook there was a message to a friend of hers in which she says something like "If I stay with him for security it makes me nothing more then a prostitute." It was part of the whole conversation in which she was working through some feelings during the affair. A little bit like a journal. At the end of the day I've had the hardest time moving past that of everything. I find myself wondering if that is why she's still with me. Instead of helping it gave me something to negatively fixate on.

According to my wife the rest of that conversation (that was on the phone) my wife talked through those feelings and ended up talking about all the reasons why she loves me. But that's not what I saw sitting there in black and white. It's caused me a lot of pain and in the case of that conversation she didn't even do anything wrong.


me: BH 35
Her: WW 28

Married 4 years. Dating 8. Living together 7.

If a man took his time on earth
to prove be for he died
what on man's life could be worth
I wonder what would happen to the world

- Harry Chapin


Posts: 475 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: California
standinghere
Member
Member # 34689
Default  Posted: 5:30 PM, April 7th (Monday)

This can be difficult.

Secrets in your journal?

VS

Private thought in your journal?

If there are secrets you've been keeping, about what you think of him, your marriage, others, etc, that you haven't been open about, then you should probably share it.

If they are just your private thoughts and in working through things mentally you express you feelings in a constructive manner, not a destructive manner, then no need to share.

Odds are that he thinks it is the latter, and it sounds like it from what you say.


BH - Me - Late 30's (now late 40's)
WW - Her - Late 30's (now late 40's)
4 Children
Her - Love of my life...still is.
Reconciled - Partly...she can't get over it.
Her - Thunderstruck by what she did.

Posts: 968 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: USA
cindergirl
New Member
Member # 42966
Default  Posted: 9:41 PM, April 7th (Monday)

In the great many hours of research my BSO has conducted on areas of rebuilding trust, he came across and related a concept to me about Privacy vs. Secrecy. Long concept short, (as we've all learned intimately firsthand,) Secrecy is poison to relationships. But *everyone* needs Privacy. We are all individuals with a fundamental right to private thoughts and feelings. That journal is your record of your private thoughts and feelings. And you have a right to keep those thoughts and feelings private.

While I have willingly shared passages from my journal with my BSO, he has never, nor would ever, ask to read it on his own. I confess being curious about his private journal, but again, I have never asked, nor would I ever ask, to read his private thoughts.

That link Stillkicking posted is full of valuable insight. Hopefully, your WH will see reason.


The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek. -Joseph Campbell

Posts: 37 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: United States
Swaying
New Member
Member # 41447
Default  Posted: 10:07 PM, April 7th (Monday)

I wanted to chime in with the whole 'secrecy' vs 'privacy' angle but cinder girl hit it on the head! I'd also consider his intentions. If they are truly to understand more clearly, than it can see how letting him would be an good option. If the intention is to defend himself against what you wrote at the time, well, why fuel that fire?
I have been blogging since 2000 in various forms. My WS stumbled upon one entry and let it fester for months before bringing it up in therapy. It was awful.
In the end, you e got to Do what is best for you and your comfort. I'd certainly hate to lose my safe places. Hugs


Me: BS-34
Him: WS-43
Together 4 yrs, married 2
2 kids: DS-3, DD-18 months
First STD: 38wks preg w DS.
Second STD: July/August 2013
DDAY 1: Nov 5, 2013 admitted to ONS
DDAY 2: Nov 23, 2013. LTA is preg. W twins. Due June 2014.

Posts: 32 | Registered: Nov 2013
wildbananas
Member
Member # 10552
Default  Posted: 10:21 PM, April 7th (Monday)

BS here.

It's a long, convoluted story but XH read my journal without my permission. That one action set us on the road to him feeling justified to have his As and us eventually divorcing. He took everything in my journals as gospel truth and refused to believe otherwise. He was incredibly nasty and horrible about it and terrible to me and the bunch.

I don't think I'll ever forgive him for reading my journal. To take something so deeply personal and turn it against me in such an awful way was a huge breach in trust. It definitely scarred my heart forever.


Travel light, live light, spread the light, be the light. ~ Yogi Bhajan

Posts: 15391 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Now an AZ girl
splitintwo
Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 10:13 AM, April 8th (Tuesday)

WS here. If I kept a journal, I would not allow BS to read it. It's not about keeping secrets. It's about having a safe space to work through the thoughts swirling in my head. I don't know about you, but I *know that many of my thoughts are irrational. I know the basis for them. And I work through them in order to reshape them...have the trigger start a different thought pattern. BS doesn't need to be part of every space. Certain things can & should be mine, just like certain thoughts can & should be his. I certainly don't want something pulled out of context for BS to brood over...there is zero need for that. Trust has to go both ways. Access to email, accounts, all that whatnot is one thing...WS has a long road to go to rebuild. But having an A doesn't make the WS any less of a person who deserves his/her own space to work through things in whatever way they see fit.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
heforgotme
Member
Member # 38391
Default  Posted: 11:03 AM, April 8th (Tuesday)

I honestly think that your journal is yours and yours only.

On SI even, FWH and I respect each other's privacy. To work through our crap w/o having to worry about what the other person might think of it. And I think a journal is the same.

If you were keeping secrets with another person, obviously it would be different. But I think you should be able to write about your issues with YOURSELF with some degree of privacy.

We all have odd thoughts that we work through and then determine they are wrong or whatever. I think that is a personal process.


D-Day 11/15/12
5 month PA
Married 20 years, 3 kids
All good is hard. All evil is easy. Dying, losing, cheating, and mediocrity is easy. Stay away from easy.
- Scott Alexander
It was the day I thought I'd never get through - Daughtry

Posts: 1081 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: FL
obliquestrat
Member
Member # 42165
Default  Posted: 1:05 PM, April 8th (Tuesday)

Surprised, but I guess not surprised, by the amount of, "don't do it! P.S. I personally have a journal that I don't want my spouse to read."

"I certainly don't want something pulled out of context for BS to brood over...there is zero need for that"

This is the quote that prompted me to respond again, though. Why not address that expression of a transient, negative thought would be grounds for "brooding?" Isn't that a problem, and can't problems be solved? A hell of a lot of the recovery and reconciliation process for me has been in accepting that feelings are valid, even if they aren't fun, or even rational. Express them, let them be expressed, acknowledge them, move on.

Anyone else's mileage may vary. For me, I lean much more toward the Radical Honesty side of the fence (focusing on productive outcomes).


ME: BS 36 - HER: WS 33
TOGETHER: 2001 - MARRIED: 2008 - KIDS: 2 (3 and 1)
D-DAY: 1/6/2014 (accidentally discovered 3M EA which had developed into sexting, makeouts, tickets for biz trip to Disneyworld)
R, IC, MC, NC (coworker)

Posts: 109 | Registered: Jan 2014
splitintwo
Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 7:32 AM, April 9th (Wednesday)

Why not address that expression of a transient, negative thought would be grounds for "brooding?" Isn't that a problem, and can't problems be solved?

It is not always a "real" problem, valid feeling or no.

Stepping outside of SI issues, I'll frame this from the "talking to my sister" POV.

My sister has done some really moronic things...things that leave me questioning whether we share the same genes at all.

In one of her more epic bad decisions, she bought a home with an XBF who also had a coke habit--and this was when he was an X.

If I were keeping a journal, it'd likely include many colorful expressions about my sister & the decision. It's not how I feel in a real sense...more of an "angry speak"...

When I talked to her directly and at length about this decision in her life, I was very harsh with her, and I walked her through all of the many ways she was making a mistake. There was no "protecting of her feelings" or hiding of info involved.

Were she to access my journal, she'd read my angry speak. She doesn't need my angry speak. Anger is just a symptom that something else is wrong. If I had a journal, I'd dump my anger there so that I can get to the root of it--I was very scared for her & her future, and I was feeling very helpless, as I had no way to control the situation.

It all went badly (as predicted), & I helped her pick up the pieces. But had she read my angry speak, she may not have come to me. Making her privy to that aspect of my thought process would be unnecessarily damaging to the relationship. Just because I may be experiencing a valid emotion at the time does not mean that everyone needs to be part of every aspect of it. There's a reason the ubiquitous "they" advise you to "sleep on it." It can help dampen the initial reaction & help you figure out what's really important to discuss.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
krispy47
Member
Member # 42863
Default  Posted: 10:35 AM, April 10th (Thursday)

Splitintwo nailed the analogy, I think. And a number of you make the point about secrets vs. privacy.

We all need to express things -- sometimes ugly things! -- to get them out of our system so they don't poison us. I do it here on SI, and in letters I write but don't send. My WH does it in a journal. Expressing those things does NOT mean they are more "real" than the things we say to each other. Nor are they representative of the whole of my thinking. They are just something I need to spew.

As a BW, I have no desire to read my WH's journal. His browser history, yes. His email, phone and text messages, for sure. But I don't want to read the mean thing he fleetingly thought about me and then forgot or felt bad about. I might be curious. In a fit of panic or anger, I might even ask to see it. But I hope that he would gently discourage me, because we both know I would dwell on it and it would set me back.

The way I see it, WH and I are saying the useful productive stuff to each other, both good and bad. The purely destructive stuff, we are throwing away via journal entries and shredded phantom letters.

I totally understand where the pro-access folks are coming from, but it seems like a dicey proposition to me.


Me: 47 WH: 48
Married 22 years, 4 kids
DDay: 3/5/14, 7 yr LTA plus rising ONS body count
Status: currently riding the coaster from hell

Posts: 107 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: Virginia
krispy47
Member
Member # 42863
Default  Posted: 10:35 AM, April 10th (Thursday)

Splitintwo nailed the analogy, I think. And a number of you make the point about secrets vs. privacy.

We all need to express things -- sometimes ugly things! -- to get them out of our system so they don't poison us. I do it here on SI, and in letters I write but don't send. My WH does it in a journal. Expressing those things does NOT mean they are more "real" than the things we say to each other. Nor are they representative of the whole of my thinking. They are just something I need to spew.

As a BW, I have no desire to read my WH's journal. His browser history, yes. His email, phone and text messages, for sure. But I don't want to read the mean thing he fleetingly thought about me and then forgot or felt bad about. I might be curious. In a fit of panic or anger, I might even ask to see it. But I hope that he would gently discourage me, because we both know I would dwell on it and it would set me back.

The way I see it, WH and I are saying the useful productive stuff to each other, both good and bad. The purely destructive stuff, we are throwing away via journal entries and shredded phantom letters.

I totally understand where the pro-access folks are coming from, but it seems like a dicey proposition to me.


Me: 47 WH: 48
Married 22 years, 4 kids
DDay: 3/5/14, 7 yr LTA plus rising ONS body count
Status: currently riding the coaster from hell

Posts: 107 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: Virginia
heartbroken0903
Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 5:37 PM, April 10th (Thursday)

I don't keep a personal journal.

That being said, I am not sure how I'd feel about my XH having access if I did keep one. I do feel that everyone is entitled to a place to have private thoughts, and getting them out in written form or to safe, trusted people such as family can be an important way of not keeping things bottled up.

Not everything in life is rosy and positive. Even a WS in R who is doing everything possible and giving 100% is going to have negative, ventish thoughts once in awhile---I believe it's human nature.

Since I'm kind of a bitch I'd probably give my XH access and say, "You asked for it" if he read things he didn't like...but again, I'm kind of a bitch. YMMV. I'd expect the same in return, btw...if I asked to read anything personal he'd written not meant for anyone else's eyes, I wouldn't feel the right to complain if I didn't like what I saw.

Disclaimer: I don't believe in using a journal (or any other means) to hide affairs or further betrayal-type secrets. I'm only speaking of personal thoughts that are not directly destructive to the marriage.


Me: XWS, 30s, 5-month EA/PA in '09-'10
Husband: XBS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciled and remarried.


Posts: 2128 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
toasted22
Member
Member # 38954
Default  Posted: 5:28 AM, April 11th (Friday)

My BS reads my journal with me. I censor how I really feel, thoughts etc. I don't share how it really is. Even what I do share gets misread and blown up out of proportion.

I do share uncensored with my IC.


Posts: 68 | Registered: Apr 2013
Topic Posts: 20