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User Topic: feeling like I don't even know my BH
splitintwo
Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 7:03 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

Just putting this here because, TBH, I don't have another safe place to put it.

I feel like I don't even know my BH sometimes. Or, rather, like I do know him but that we're so apart in our worldviews that I can't conceive of a way to bridge that gap.

Things are "fine" most of the time...we watch shows together, spend time together, chit-chat, discuss issues he's having at work, all that.

And I know that two people shouldn't think the same way about everything, but hmm...our differences feel so limiting.

I value intellectual connection, debate, all that, and I can't get it at home very often because we're so far apart that actually getting to the root of our beliefs about whatever topic may truly cause me to lose respect for him or him for me.

Most recently, it centered around medical marijuana. One of my close relatives is stage 4, on chemo, dangerously low weight. I can get her pot with miniscule-to-no risk. BH's first reaction was "no, it's illegal" paired with "you want to put our family--me & the kids--at risk to break the law for one person?"

He knows I'll do it anyway if she asks. I just watched my dad practically starve to death last summer (he ultimately shot himself when the suffering was too great), & I know how painful it was for him to lie on his bones all day. I am not trying to "heal" her...I know she's dying. But I will do anything in my power to help ease her suffering.

Anyway, we came to a reasonable understanding on that issue, but there was a moment....several moments...where I thought, "Who the hell did I marry? Why would he let anyone suffer because of a "law" that's changing & that hasn't caught up with her state yet?"

It honestly never occurred to me that his initial response would be no. My sister knew it, other people knew it, but it had never entered my mind. And before we came to a common ground (recommending consult with palliative care doc to make sure her symptoms are being managed first, getting the OK from her doc should pot be the best option, making the trip without the kids, etc), I had the realization that these opposing world views could cause irreparable harm in our marriage. Had he not been willing to bend, I'd have either had to let her suffer & resent him for forcing me into that position or done it anyway without his consent & had him resent me for being willing to break the law & put our family at risk.

Anyway...just rambling, I suppose.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
StrongerOne
Member
Member # 36915
Default  Posted: 7:31 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

BS here.

Not sure if you're asking for thoughts on the specific issue, or on the disconnect with your BH.

I'm thinking the medical marijuana question gets too close to "no politics," so I'll stay away from that.

Here's the thing. Your BH didn't just say, it's illegal. He posed it as priorities: which is more important to you, your relative, or your BH and children?

I don't know how recent your DDay is, what you are doing to make your BH feel safe, what you are doing to get at why you had an A. If it's pretty recent, can you see why this would be upsetting to him?

The experience with your dad colors the situation, to be sure. But still, why is it your job to ease her suffering -- to be the KISA? are you her closest relative? does she have doctors? is her care good?

Are you as eager to ease your BH's suffering from your A, as you are to help this relative? (That sounds harsh, but I think that's what your BH is getting at.)

It may be that you and your BH are really different in terms of values or worldviews. And that in itself may be enough to D. So worth considering.

But please do also consider that your BH may find your worldview, particularly where it affects him and your family, disheartening as well.

Worth exploring...


DDay Feb 2011.
In R.

Posts: 866 | Registered: Sep 2012
william
Member
Member # 41986
Default  Posted: 7:43 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

im NOT opposed to medical marijuana, actually think it should be de-criminalized with possibly a small fine for smoking it, and ive lived in countries for almost a decade where this is exactly how marijuana is handled legally.


but ... WHY is "He knows I'll do it anyway if she asks" acceptable to you? that one sentence screams alot out to me.

its a pretty self entitled way of seeing the world. more it also shows that you view your husband with some contempt and that he has learned to accept and live with it.

why does a differing opinion on medical marijuana cause you to lose respect for him? its a topic that smart people who care have widely diverse opinions on. its not clear cut like saying "pedophilia is wrong" in which someone who tries to say "its okay" is a moral monster.

your husbands perspective was "mom can go to jail for buying pot" regardless of how "noble" the cause was. your persective is "im willing to risk my family to help this person". he might be called insensitive but equally you can be called selfish for being willing to put everyone in your family at risk.

when you make statements like
"actually getting to the root of our beliefs about whatever topic may truly cause me to lose respect for him or him for me"
it comes across that you are very dogmatic and perhaps what you want is an echo chamber instead of someone who has different perspectives. have you asked him if your opinions truly cause him to lose resepect for you or are you assuming?

because what i see from your post is selfish justification wrapped up in morality and altruism.


me - bh
her - lara01

from 09/11 - 05/13
2 ONS, 10 sexting partners, 1 LT EA/PA

??/06/13 DD/1 - admits to LT EA, begin false R.
01/13/14 DD/2 - LTA was PA.
01/18/14 DD/3 - sexting 5 guys.
01/19/14 DD/4 - 2 ONS with different guys


Posts: 546 | Registered: Jan 2014
Jovie
Member
Member # 41956
Default  Posted: 7:51 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

But please do also consider that your BH may find your worldview, particularly where it affects him and your family, disheartening as well.

This is an interesting perspective. Have you talked about your differences with each other to see how he deals with his opposition to your view points internally?

BH and I certainly disagree about some things, and I can think of one issue in particular that got really heated between us, but I still appreciate other points of view and sometimes find fun in trying to debate him to my side.

It sounds like both of you are very certain (and stubborn maybe?, but I don't mean for that to sound so negative) in your stances on certain things so I can see how that may cause friction. Part of me also wonders if you are focusing in on this too much to sort of either justify your A, or look for reasons to get out of M.

Anyway, I'm glad that with this issue in particular you were able to come to a sort of compromise in understanding.


Me - WW, 33
Him - BH, 37
Dday - 12/16/13

Posts: 214 | Registered: Jan 2014
splitintwo
Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 7:54 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

I really should post my story somewhere...

We have no Dday, as that is something I do know for sure. My A would not be something our M could survive. My A is also over.

I think I'm stuck on the disconnect, which is why I put it here. I can debate medical marijuana all day long on political forums...that's an easy outlet to find.

My relative is like a mother to me, and she views my sister & I as her kids. That also colors the situation, no doubt.

And I hear his concerns. Once we were able to talk it through & I could give him the specifics re: how minuscule the risk would be as well as assure him it was the last line of defense not the first, we could find a place where we could agree about the action.

It feels--that disconnect between us--like an untenable situation. It's all fine in theory...he can have his worldview, I can have mine. But when life happens & we have to bridge that disconnect, it occurs to me that there very well will be situations that we can't find that middle ground on. And when that happens, then what?

I don't want to D. If I did, I'd have a Dday re: my A, and that'd be that. Hell, I wouldn't even have to do that; I could just spare him the pain, D, and we'd both move on with our lives. We have a stable life that's good for our kids though, and we do get along well most of the time, so for this phase of life, it feels like maintaining our M is the right thing to do.

But please do also consider that your BH may find your worldview, particularly where it affects him and your family, disheartening as well.

I have no doubt that he does, though I suspect he doesn't think about it often. But perhaps that's my fear....I have a background understanding that we might hit one of these issues down the line & our inability to bridge it may be enough to cause a D anyway. It's just...hmm. ugh. I don't know. There's no win here.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
splitintwo
Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 8:12 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

WHY is "He knows I'll do it anyway if she asks" acceptable to you?

Why should it not be? My family matters to me. Their suffering matters to me.

From my POV, had he stuck with "No. It's illegal." then he'd basically be telling me "f* her. She can suffer." And frankly, I've seen enough of that to last a lifetime...mom died a long death, dad suffered a long while before suicide. It's cruel. It's inhumane. And I'm not OK with allowing someone I love to stay in that state if they know of an option that could help (in this case, get her to eat enough to have enough skin so she does not have to lie on her bones) & I am in a position where I can make that happen.

self entitled way of seeing the world. more it also shows that you view your husband with some contempt and that he has learned to accept and live with it.

This is a part of the nuance that's difficult to communicate. From my husband's POV, if I bring something up, he'll respond, and then I'll want to debate. His opinion is that my desire to "debate" makes the question I posed empty. That I didn't want his opinion, that I am just going to do what I want to do, blah blah. In truth, I want to debate. I want to understand his POV. I want him to defend it, shoot down my logic, all that...challenge me to change my mind. If I don't blindly accept his response, he views it as dismissive of it. I can't see how it's fully thought out if he hasn't communicated the reasons for feeling that way, ya know?

That's what helped us come to understanding re: pot with this relative. Once I could get him to articulate his concerns point by point, I could mitigate those concerns. And once he saw the big picture of all the other variables involved re: making sure her docs have explored all legal options, getting her docs on board with the decision to use pot should it be deemed necessary, all of that, then he became OK with it. But his initial reaction was his trademark: "Why do you ask if you don't actually want to know my answer? It's illegal. Period." I asked because I do respect him & his POV. I could just feign a trip, lie, do it anyway. But I want to be able to come to an understanding, come to a decision, as a family.

Also, I don't want an echo chamber. But there's a difference between being here....and here or here......................and here.

your post is selfish justification wrapped up in morality and altruism.

Perhaps.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
StrongerOne
Member
Member # 36915
Default  Posted: 8:39 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

I am distressed that your BH doesn't know that he's been betrayed.

Wow. You're asking him to work out, in detail, step by step, what is the ethical thing to do in a difficult situation.

But not that one. The one where he doesn't know who you really are, whether you behave ethically, whether you do things (or don't do things) based on whether they hurt others, whether they hurt people you love. Your family.

Wow.

I can't respond to your posts any more, sorry.

(Mods, if this post is inappropriate coming from a BS, let me know and I'll edit.)


DDay Feb 2011.
In R.

Posts: 866 | Registered: Sep 2012
william
Member
Member # 41986
Default  Posted: 8:55 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

im not saying that leaving your mom to die in pain is a real option.

i am saying that in a true marriage it is a 50/50 partnership. that means equality. over-riding or vetoing your partners wishes in favor of your own isnt equality, it requires having at least 51%. that your husband would expect you to ignore his wishes and just do whatever you wanted to do and that is precisely what you would do = you expect more than 50% and hes become accustomed (or resigned) to it.

that is sure to breed resentment and hostility over time from him as well as a sense of entitlement from you (as the power broker with 51%+ control of the marriage).

this same attitude can also be seen in
"We have no Dday, as that is something I do know for sure. My A would not be something our M could survive. My A is also over.
I don't want to D. If I did, I'd have a Dday re: my A, and that'd be that. Hell, I wouldn't even have to do that; I could just spare him the pain, D, and we'd both move on with our lives."

this is another example of the same entitlement. you deserve to know the facts. you get to decide what facts your husband gets to know. you have decided he doesnt deserve to know the facts. then justify that with "i know what he'd do and since i dont want that result ill control his information flow".

thats selfish. thats entitlement. thats, again, wrapping whatever you want to do in a sense of morality, altruism, and trying to justify the unjustifiable.


me - bh
her - lara01

from 09/11 - 05/13
2 ONS, 10 sexting partners, 1 LT EA/PA

??/06/13 DD/1 - admits to LT EA, begin false R.
01/13/14 DD/2 - LTA was PA.
01/18/14 DD/3 - sexting 5 guys.
01/19/14 DD/4 - 2 ONS with different guys


Posts: 546 | Registered: Jan 2014
splitintwo
Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 8:56 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

You can leave it, StrongerOne or mods or whoever. I left this post open for either side to respond to; it helps me to hear other POVs.

I'm well aware of the hypocrisy that I've left the A 'off the table', yet expect BH & I to discuss other things on the morality spectrum.

My A was never about leaving my M nor about my H. And I am working on me to fix my broken parts, of which there are many. I realize that most on SI are in the "confess" camp; I am not.

We spent about 6 months in MC to improve our communication. And during MC, he also revealed he felt like he was staying for the kids, going through the motions. We're working on our connection. It was broken on both sides. Things are improving overall; we're growing more connected, too.

Of the things I do know with certainty, BH doesn't want to damage our kids' worlds. Call it justification for not confessing if you wish, I'll own that, but that's one thing I will do. I quit the A, I'm working my way out of the f*ed up place I was in. I am focusing on fixing me & my M. And I'm going to do it by preserving the family unit to the best of my ability, as I know via MC that, at times, is his motivator for being here, too.

[This message edited by splitintwo at 8:57 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)]


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
splitintwo
Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 9:09 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

I do agree with this:

in a true marriage it is a 50/50 partnership

For me, that partnership involves discussion & debate re: major decisions. I don't broach the difficult discussions from the "I'm going to do it anyway, f* you" POV. I broach them because I want to have the discussion.

And his response to any questioning on my part is often along the lines of "you don't really want to know what I think, you just want to do what you want to do & have me sign off on it."

That, however, is inaccurate. I want to come to a consensus when real issues surface. Yes, we're both stubborn & dogmatic, as a few of you noted. But that doesn't mean I'm not open to hearing alternate POVs...in fact, it's just the opposite--I want to hear your POV. Tell me your reasoning. I need to consider those variables, too, when I want to come to a conclusion re: how we handle something.

BH hears that questioning differently, and he can be difficult to engage in discussion because of it. If I were truly 100% entitled, I would just do what I want to do, when I want to do it, f* it all. In fact, I'd D because it'd be much easier to foster my entitlements were I single. But that's not what I want. I want us to be partners, to make major decisions together.

And yes, I am aware of the hypocrisy of "all major decisions but this one re: my A."

If that's too much of a trigger, then perhaps I should resume stop-signing my posts.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
FindMyselfAgain
Member
Member # 36969
Default  Posted: 9:17 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

As gently as I can...

It is not just hypocrisy. You are very much still in the Wayward mindset. You cannot have an authentic, intimate relationship with secrets and lies. You are lying to yourself. Do as much work on yourself as you want, but until you stop lying to yourself and your BH it won't fix anything.

You are choosing to stay with this way of thinking, justifying to make yourself feel better for not making real change. My only question is this: why don't you want better for yourself?


DDay: October 7, 2011
R finally started in earnest: April 2014

Posts: 194 | Registered: Sep 2012
Ascendant
Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 9:18 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

BH's first reaction was "no, it's illegal" paired with "you want to put our family--me & the kids--at risk to break the law for one person?"

He knows I'll do it anyway if she asks.

This is the part right here that really concerns me....because basically, you've shown through your actions that you are going to pursue whatever course of action YOU deem best, everyone else's thoughts or feelings on the matter be damned.

You did it with your affair, you did it with your lack of confession, you're doing it with this.

Listen, in my marriage I am you. I will debate, and debate, and debate. I like arguing...in my FOO it's how we hashed things out. My wife, on the other hand, does not like to argue and isn't particularly skilled at it.

One thing I had to learn in my marriage (and boy, it took me a while) was that just because I can argue more effectively, make a better point, present my side of the issue more clearly, does not mean that I automatically 'win' and can do whatever I want: You (and by 'you', I mean 'me') can technically win the argument and still be an entitled bastard.

Just because we are more effective debaters at 'scoring points' in arguments for our side does not free us from the responsibility to be respectful of our spouses opinions, thoughts, and feelings. It's possible to be correct and still be a bully, KWIM?

I know that you've effectively said over and over in your posts (and tagline) that you haven't confessed, and don't plan on it. I'm not going to try to convince you that you should (although, you know, you probably should), but people's responses are going to keep coming back to that ad nauseam because the entitlement underpinnings involved with keeping that kind of info from your husband are going to flavor every other issue.


I refuse to let a wound ruin me.
**Guts over fear.**

Posts: 2117 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
KeepCalm_CarryOn
Member
Member # 33374
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

I wasn't going to comment on this...until you said this:

For me, that partnership involves discussion & debate re: major decisions. I don't broach the difficult discussions from the "I'm going to do it anyway, f* you" POV

This is exactly what you are doing to your BH who doesn't know he's a BH. You've taken away his ability to be 50/50 in a partnership because he can't debate and discuss the facts of your marriage because he doesn't have them. Take your medical marijuana debate- one side cannot debate and discuss if they don't have/know/understand the facts right? So how do you expect your marriage to improve if one side doesn't have all the facts?

It feels like, while reading this, you are still in the fog. You expect your marriage to be healing, you expect your spouse to understand your needs (ie debate/discussion) and yet he has no idea what's truly going on. You seem to be justifying your behavior/looking at your marriage through foggy glasses.


You are not dealing with rational people or situations. Normal thought processes won't work...story of my life.

Me- BW, 28
Him- fWh, 34
Mostly R'd, minus a few scars...bought a house and got a puppy...And baby makes 3! She arrived August


Posts: 2025 | Registered: Sep 2011
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 9:28 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

Hey splitintwo. Betrayed Child here. No triggers here. I've been following some of your posts. Not sure I want to debate you as you seem very bright and articulate. You seem to like to debate all the avenues of the topic at hand. I respect that. However, I do have a question that I wonder if you've given any thought to regarding the A. You like to have deep, meaningful, and introspective discussions where there is plenty of thought given to topics that you like to debate about. Not judging at all and hypothetically speaking, I'm curious to see if you have ever give that same thought to your past catching up to your future? Do you ever have the fear that your kids could find out someday? That you can't control your AP and there's a chance that this could all still come back. Your A is out there. I'm the one that found out about my mother's A at the age of 16 and had to sit my father down and let him know what was going on. Needless to say it didn't go to well for any of us. My FOO was blown apart. Granted every situation is different and I don't want to imply that would happen if someone in your family were to find out, I'm just curious to see if you ever thought that far ahead with all of this. Not just the fallout with your H, but with your family as well. How do you see that scenario play out? What, if any, is the debate on that hypothetical?

Just curious.

yop


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2154 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
splitintwo
Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 9:34 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

why don't you want better for yourself?

I do want better for myself as well for my M. I've learned quite a bit from being here re: the importance of NC, of getting to a state of indifference toward AP, etc. I understand that for many of you, healing involves confession of your A. That is not the case for me. And while I understand your POV re: confession; it's simply not a route I'm going to take. What was "wrong" was in me, not the M, and destroying the M & crushing BH isn't going to fix that.

And if not being willing to go the confession route forever brands me as "very much still in the Wayward mindset," then perhaps this is simply not the proper forum for me to use while I work on me & my M.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
splitintwo
Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 9:38 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

if you have ever give that same thought to your past catching up to your future?

I do think about this; I've played it out many many times in my mind. It's certainly possible. There's an e-trail.

If my A were to be discovered, I'd own it. I wouldn't lie about it, try to hide it, go into denial mode. And I'd pick up the pieces as best I could with my family, from BH to my kids to my other relatives who will judge me very harshly for my behavior.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
Ascendant
Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 9:44 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

If my A were to be discovered, I'd own it. I wouldn't lie about it, try to hide it, go into denial mode. And I'd pick up the pieces as best I could with my family, from BH to my kids to my other relatives who will judge me very harshly for my behavior.
I suppose then, the logical next question is this: Let's assume that you follow through with your plan as it exists now...fixing the marriage, etc., and your husband finds out somehow. All of this work, all of the MC work, communication-skill-building...it will all mean nothing to him. He will be angrier at that point, because he will sit there, every day, thinking about how you sat in MC sessions discussing truth and honesty while withholding this information from him.


I refuse to let a wound ruin me.
**Guts over fear.**

Posts: 2117 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
numb&dumb
Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 9:47 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

And I hear his concerns. Once we were able to talk it through & I could give him the specifics re: how minuscule the risk would be as well as assure him it was the last line of defense not the first, we could find a place where we could agree about the action.

To me this just sounds like a M. You are going to disagree, but you talk it through, gain a better understanding of the others perspective and you decide together what the best course of action is. That is just life.

Maybe this was just one example and there are harsher ones, but this is what a M is. Communication and coming together about things you may disagree with initially.

A good M has differences. communication and compromise for both parties.

At the end of the day what did you want ? The option to help your Aunt out if it came to that. At the end of the day he agreed with you, but only after his concerns were incorporated into that decision. So I don't really see where this situation ended badly for you. He should be able to raise concerns with you, right ?

No matter who you are with, you are going to have differences or disagree at times. When one party is not willing to compromise or at least hear the other out, therein lies the problem.

Good M have to be nurtured and worked at. They just don't happen.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2555 | Registered: May 2010
BrokenButTrying
Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 9:54 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

This

BH's first reaction was "no, it's illegal" paired with "you want to put our family--me & the kids--at risk to break the law for one person?"
He knows I'll do it anyway if she asks.

Contradicts this


For me, that partnership involves discussion & debate re: major decisions. I don't broach the difficult discussions from the "I'm going to do it anyway, f* you" POV

And you wonder why there's a disconnect?

How can you ever expect to connect with a man who you are not being honest with?

You don't know your BH? Gently, he is living an authentic and honest life. It is he that does not know you.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1235 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
splitintwo
Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

All of this work, all of the MC work, communication-skill-building...it will all mean nothing to him. He will be angrier at that point, because he will sit there, every day, thinking about how you sat in MC sessions discussing truth and honesty while withholding this information from him.

The timeline isn't here. We were in MC when I wasn't even aware that I was in an EA, so that was years ago now. AP was a "friend," nothing more at that point, BH & I had lost touch with each other & we were in MC hoping to reconnect & learn how to communicate. There was no lying during MC, as there was nothing to hide at that point.

For various reasons, I "broke" rather epically after MC. Things escalated on many fronts, and it took a long time as well as some meds from my doc for me to get my shit together enough to figure out what the hell had happened, stop some hellishly self-destructive behaviors, and refocus.

When/if the A comes out, the result is the same--D. I know this. MC work or not, it will all mean nothing to him. But I want to continue to work on me, on our M, because I value the M (and yes, I can hear it in my head as I type this "how the hell can you claim you value the M if you had an A?"...I know how absolutely absurd that statement reads, but that doesn't stop it from being true). Like I said, my A has nothing to do with my M, and everything to do with a very broken me. I could explain what happened, but it'd come off as trying to justify my behaviors during the A, which I'm not. So I'm skipping that part.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
splitintwo
Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 10:05 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

At the end of the day what did you want ? The option to help your Aunt out if it came to that. At the end of the day he agreed with you, but only after his concerns were incorporated into that decision. So I don't really see where this situation ended badly for you. He should be able to raise concerns with you, right ?

The situation didn't end badly.

I used everything I learned in MC to get past the knee-jerk "You asked for my opinion, there it was, end of discussion" response from him & have a real discussion, one that included him articulating *why he felt the way he did. And it's actually a good example of ultimately addressing the issue as partners, etc.

But it illustrated to me that we may well come up against something else down the line where we can't bridge it.

And his initial reaction caught me completely off guard...that's why I felt like I didn't know him at all. It never occurred to me that he'd have an issue with it given his knowledge of my relative & her situation. I just wonder how many more of these situations we'll come up against...where I think nothing of some issue, but it happens to be something he has strongly held beliefs about.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
She-Ra
Member
Member # 36033
Default  Posted: 10:29 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

Hi spiltintwo:

I can see why you don't have the connection. You don't seem to value his opinion anyways. Like you won't confess to him because you "already know" how he would react. He knows you would get the pot for the friend. Perhaps he has just settled into a routine with you to avoid fights since he can "never win".

So you are in the "taking it to the grave camp". How's that going for you? Pretty hard to bury isn't it? I have wondered what life would be like for me if I took it to the grave. And I can tell you one thing, I would not be where I'm at today with my healing. I spend every day working on myself. I have grown into a much better and wiser person. I would be eaten with guilt and stuck in my old mindset. I'm proud of my progress.

I think you are taking the easy way out which isn't a way out at all. NC just began this month so you have an incredibly long road ahead. I wish you well but I honestly think this will be way too hard to heal from due to the approach you have taken.


WW/BW 33 BH/WH 34
1 year old beautiful daughter

Posts: 848 | Registered: Jul 2012
splitintwo
Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

Like I said: If not being willing to go the confession route forever brands me as "very much still in the Wayward mindset" & make every thread become a virtual beat down because I'm "taking the easy way out" and "denying myself & my H an authentic life," then perhaps this is simply not the proper forum for me to use while I work on me & my M.

Bowing out of SI.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

And his response to any questioning on my part is often along the lines of "you don't really want to know what I think, you just want to do what you want to do & have me sign off on it."
You say this inaccurate. But its the dynamic that is there. You know everything. You "already know", you have the answer. You say you hear him, but do you actually listen? Do you actually shut up, look at him, and listen?

Oh we're talking, we're communicating. He just doesn't understand. But in truth, I was sitting there with my fingers in my ears like a 2 year old cause my way was better. Cause I knew better. And when he didn't agree, I'd shoot him down anyway. He got tired of fighting me. So he said the same thing your husband said.

I created that dynamic. He finally fell into place. And then I griped cause he was where I put him.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6259 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
longroadhome
Member
Member # 32428
Default  Posted: 10:45 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

Wow. So you're continuing to lie to him, ignoring his input, disregarding his opinion, and going about doing whatever you feel like doing regardless of how he feels about it and you're disconnected from him?

What are you trying to fix? Why are you staying in this relationship? It certainly isn't about love or respect.


Me: WH
Her: BW, and the most amazing, beautiful person I've ever known

It is counterintuitive really... the less we defend our well-being, the more well we feel. ~ Nancy Colier


Posts: 547 | Registered: Jun 2011
numb&dumb
Member
Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 10:46 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

we may well come up against something else down the line where we can't bridge it.

You are wasting time worrying about something that hasn't happened yet. You are having mental arguments with him that don't exist yet.

You were wrong about "what you though" he would say about this topic. People can surprise you.

Don't judge him for not being your head. He won't know if you don't explain your line of thinking. He isn't a mind reader.

To be fair, he "had" an issue with it.

You deal with future conflicts in the same way.

To me as a BH, and you can take it or leave it, it seems like you have spent a great deal of energy looking for things to show that you aren't together.

You are only looking at his negative qualities. If you look for something you tend to find it


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2555 | Registered: May 2010
FindMyselfAgain
Member
Member # 36969
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

Perhaps I wasn't clear in my last post. First, let me clarify that I am actually the BETRAYED party in my M.

I am not referring to your unwillingness to confess specifically. Trust me, if I were to address that issue directly, I would risk getting banned from posting here. Suffice it to say, I am not willing to argue with you over that fact as I do not believe you are yet capable of seeing the bigger issue. Please note that I said YET...

The point I really wish you would give some thought to (and please, do sit on it and try to let it sink in...hard, I know, as I am a bit of a debater myself) is this:

You are lying to yourself if you think that you can have an actual intimate relationship with secrets and lies. Stop lying to yourself woman! You deserve better. But you have to want it bad enough to realize that. Until you do, there is nothing anyone anywhere can say to help you.

Turn your desire to debate inward. Argue with yourself until you get good and pissed off at how you get in your own way. THEN maybe you'll find your way out of the Wayward mindset that is clearly so ingrained in you. It's not JUST about your A; it is about your whole way of thinking. Please, honey, resist the urge to debate and just reflect for a little while.

You're breaking my heart here, because I don't think you see yourself very clearly. You are better than what what you are allowing yourself to see. I hope you can find a way to remove those blinders that you seem to want to keep on.

I am so sorry for whatever it is that has brought you to your way of thinking. I hope you find your strength to really face yourself.

((splitintwo)) if you will accept them.

Find the courage to make yourself whole again. You're worth it.


DDay: October 7, 2011
R finally started in earnest: April 2014

Posts: 194 | Registered: Sep 2012
mindbody
Member
Member # 27941
Default  Posted: 11:15 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

Are you sure that it will be your BH who would file for D if you confessed? JMO but I think you would feel so much shame, guilt, fear, and ostrasized that you would want to run as far as you could from your family. Again JMO, but I think exposing your A would be too hard for you to handle and fixing your broken self in the light of day is really what is preventing you from confessing.

Posts: 306 | Registered: Mar 2010
heforgotme
Member
Member # 38391
Default  Posted: 11:17 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

perhaps this is simply not the proper forum for me to use while I work on me & my M.

I can't really see how you are working on your marriage. Although I can see how you are continuing to blame your BS for its faults.

The lack of connection you feel is largely your fault and could be corrected by you. If you so choose.

I can only hope that you are brave enough to stick around and listen to the veterans (and I'm not including myself in that category) who know what they're talking about. Bc they have learned the hard way.

Good luck in any case.


D-Day 11/15/12
5 month PA
Married 20 years, 3 kids
All good is hard. All evil is easy. Dying, losing, cheating, and mediocrity is easy. Stay away from easy.
- Scott Alexander
It was the day I thought I'd never get through - Daughtry

Posts: 1081 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: FL
Lovedyoumore
Member
Member # 35593
Default  Posted: 11:34 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

Many married couples have differences in their beliefs and it makes very interesting dynamics if you both value each other's take on things.

I am concerned that you have decided to plant your flag on this hill and stake your claim for all or nothing. There are other answers to the situation you described without putting yourself and your family on the line, as well as berate your H for his stance that you not break the law.

You decided to take your A to the grave. Ok. That is your choice. Not the usual recommendation, but yours to decide. I find it disturbing that you can put your H down for his ethical decision making skill set while you chose to continue skirting your own ethical issues. Your H has no idea of the condition of his own marriage. Is that acceptable and any less damaging? You are willing to break the law for a close relative to provide comfort yet you are willing to let your H suffer in a dishonest marriage?

There is a huge disconnect in your marriage, but placing the blame on your H and his beliefs is very selfish and self serving. Phrasing your willingness to break the law as his issue is just plain wrong. Are you that reckless in your need to be right? Why is he the villain in your mind?


Me 52
WH 52
Married 30+ years
Together trying to R

I tell people I am tired but really my heart is broken and I am sad.


Posts: 1480 | Registered: May 2012 | From: Southern, bless your heart
familyfirst
Member
Member # 42651
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

Oh no, you are gone! And here I was going to congratulate you for going NC and ask how it was going staying off FB. If you're reading this, remember how far you've come in the last few months. Maybe it's not 100% perfect in the SI world, but at least you are not split-in-two anymore. Keep working on the M, give more than 50%, focus on the positives in your H instead of the negatives. Once thoughts of OM and that relationship are long gone, if you're still having issues with your H, re-evaluate.
Good luck!

Posts: 218 | Registered: Mar 2014
Edith
Member
Member # 38337
Default  Posted: 11:47 AM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

Hi Split, Wherever you end up, I hope you find the help you need. As a BW, I must say that the cruelty of keeping your secret and "working on the M, valuing the M" is pretty difficult for me to understand. And I think the title of this thread is a bit ironic, since your H obviously does not know you.

Please tell your H so that he can at least get tested for STDs. I hope you are able to find the integrity and healing to be the wife that he deserves. Take care.

E.


Lies are manipulations. Always.

Posts: 385 | Registered: Feb 2013
Unagie
Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

The fact that you are leaving because a couple of posts were telling you about confession seems well....silly. in hopes that you are still at the very least reading this i'll say what I've been thinking the whole time. You have no respect for your husband. Do you know how crazy it makes me to have to defend a differing viewpoint to someone. If I say I don't like chocolate and you say chocolate is amazing that should be the end of it. Instead you will look at me and tell me to defend why I don't like chocolate for the sole purpose of shooting down reasons valid to me. I have to disagree thats not marriage thats you getting your way by beating his opinion into the ground. Marriage is about compromise not debate. I'd feel a disconnect too if everything I thought or felt that was different from what my SO thought or felt needed to be debated.

For instance xSO and I still live together. I am taking a class on morality and how it works within decision made in justice system. We have debated many of those questions, none of them have a damn thing to do with real life. Now he has a situation where he's going on vacation when really he should spend that money to take care of some personal matters. Thats how I feel about it. He feels differently. There was no debate or me asking him to defend his points or vice versa. I told him how I felt, he listened and disagreed and it was left at that. Not everything in a marriage needs to be debated. Sometimes compromise is about accepting that your opinions differ.

Sorry I got a bit rambly. I hope you find your happiness whatever you choose to do but I hope your BH does too.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

"To be loyal to myself is to allow myself to grow and change, and challenge who I am and what I think."


Posts: 2756 | Registered: Oct 2012
splitintwo
Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 1:27 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

I posted here because I I think through things by talking. And, I believed that if anyone would understand both the validity & hypocrisy of statements like this, it'd be Waywards: "
I feel like I don't even know my BH sometimes. Or, rather, like I do know him but that we're so apart in our worldviews that I can't conceive of a way to bridge that gap."

And I posted here because I felt I could be honest here. Hell, I'm certainly willing to take my share of criticism & 2x4s. Hufi, among others, have been brutally honest with me, and for that, I am grateful.

I am leaving because I cannot be honest here. Because honestly, I intend to take it to the grave, and owning that apparently means that every conversation on SI will forever be tainted with the fact that I won't go the confession route. Who the hell knows...it may be something I decide to do later, bug for now, in this moment, it is not the right decision for either me or my family.

In the spirit of honesty, every day is a fight to stay. Not because I'd be happier elsewhere. No. Because deep down, my desire is to spend every day alone, lost in a bottle. And every day is a fight against that version of me, a struggle to be the person who can see her beautiful & loving girls and amazing husband and want to stay. Because I do want to stay. And I know the switch exists in me that can shut it all out. My dad had it, his mom had it, we know how to disappear. I don't want to disappear, not really. But the part of me that craves that path is loud indeed. I will do what's necessary to get through each day, to teach myself to be present, to not abandon my family.

It's not always simple. Life rarely is. I listen to how my husband talks about his family members as they deal with their own mental struggles. He is not a sympathetic party. It's not a space I can use for understanding. Whatnot. That's neither here nor there, and I'm rambling. Anyway, it's hard enough to get through as is. I don't need the barrage of 'you must confess, it's the only way,' too.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
FindMyselfAgain
Member
Member # 36969
Default  Posted: 2:27 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

Confess. Don't confess. Your choice. Really.

That aside. Please stick around. As you said yourself, you have gotten some sound help from this site and its members.

My earlier comment about turning your desire for debate inward was made not about confessing, but as a way for you to look at yourself in a way that you are familiar and comfortable with.

Take the issue of confessing or not off the table for now. Figure you out. Work on you. But you HAVE TO be honest with yourself.

I say this not to judge you. Truly, there is no need for me to judge you. I honestly think there are parts of you that you are not seeing clearly. And I honestly believe you are more than you seem to think you are.

I don't know what else I can say. I don't think you will hear me; I think that desire to debate will color my words and you will want to argue every point that's made.

I say that only because I have been there myself. My circumstances were different, infidelity was not involved. But so much else is similar.

Good luck.


DDay: October 7, 2011
R finally started in earnest: April 2014

Posts: 194 | Registered: Sep 2012
sunnyrain
Member
Member # 30164
Default  Posted: 4:42 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

Sending you almost the exact same message I just sent to Brknbtrfly:

I understand if you feel you must leave SI, but I really wish you wouldn't.

I hear you. I support your personal efforts. I believe in you. Stay strong!


"I'm not much into health food, I am into champagne."

Posts: 389 | Registered: Nov 2010
BrokenButTrying
Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 5:12 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

Split,

I do understand. I am taking infidelity out of the equation for this.

BH and I are very dissimilar. In politics I'm as left and liberal as they come, he's conservative. We disagree on practically every big topic!

I am passionate and like Ascendant I grew up in a family where debate was encouraged. I am very good at arguing my point, I am articulate and really enjoy thrashing out issues. BH, not so much. He hates it in fact.

Even without huge intellectual debates, BH challenges me. Just a brief 'in passing' conversation about the headlines that day will reveal a world view I hadn't considered before. I adore my BH for that, he forces me to look at things from a different angle. I may not agree with him but it's still interesting to see things from another point of view.

You spoke about respect, or lack of it, because of differing opinions on things. I can relate to that. I find my BH's opinions on some topics VERY challenging indeed, even upsetting at times. But on the stuff that really matters? How to raise our children, how to get along as a family, our hopes, our dreams... we're on exactly the same page.

So who cares if he has an opposing opinion on drugs, the death penalty, abortion, the economic crisis? That stuff isn't really important. What's important is the stuff going on within the four walls of our home, under our roof, between us.

Try to look at your differences as a good thing. Let his opinions challenge you, don't steam roller him with your own - you can't be right all the time!

You may be chalk and cheese but that's not always a bad thing. You have the power to change the dynamic between the two of you. If you work on yourself, do your bit to improve the communication, I bet my life he'll respond positively.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1235 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
SlowUptake
Member
Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 5:32 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

Hi Split

Since you've made it very clear you prefer to avoid consequences for your actions.

Just something to ponder.
Is it possible your need to debate a course of action with your BS(or anyone else) and convince him/them of the rightousness of your POV, is a defense mechanism to avoid total blame if the shit hits the fan.


Me:WS,50+
Her:BS,50+ (WantToWakeUp)
Married 33yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.


Posts: 390 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Shutup  Posted: 5:39 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

***As a member***

SlowUptake...

wow, what a crappy thing to say to someone that already has expressed they're leaving the site due to remarks like yours.

Thanks

Splitintwo...

I sent you a PM


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 197971 | Registered: May 2002
splitintwo
Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 5:44 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

It's all so cliche.

AP is an alcoholic. I am, too, only I'm in the dry drunk category. Hadn't had a drink since 21, when I quit because I was in college & finding it contributed to me doing stupid things. I didn't quit because I was an alcoholic, I quit because when I turned 21, it wasn't as fun. When it's legal, you're not getting away with anything.

Fast forward a dozen years, throw in depression that was triggered by PPD which I never shook, and add alcohol back in. "I'm in my 30s, I can have a few, right?" As an alcoholic from birth, from the disease perspective, my body picked up as if I'd never missed a drink. Once I restarted, I was quickly finding ways to binge drink a 12 pack, AP fostered that (of course), & so on.

In Sept 2012, I consulted with my doc about my depression & my drinking. She put me on meds. After about 18 months, those did fix what had been "off" in my brain, and I've been off meds for a couple months now.

Anyway, I feel things more authentically myself than I have in years. I actually cried while owning my escapist desires, which is new for me--for years, that's all been looked at with a clinical detachment.

And I'm trying. I get that some of you were able to just rip off all the bandaids, throw it all out there, and work through it all at once.

I can't. It's one day at a time for me. A daily assessment of what I'm doing. Conscious decisions to replace behaviors & a keen awareness of a total desire to replace my negative traits with a new addiction. I have to get back to dealing with things buried for 30 years. For the first time in ages, I feel like I can go there.

I like SI because it's a check on me, & I don't truly want to quit it. I can put something out here that I'm struggling with & get a fresh read, someone to call me on what I'm saying or see through it to find the truth. Maybe I just need to go back to the stop sign security blanket until I'm further along in this process. I know much of what I post will be trigger-y for some, so that's likely the best route for all here.

What I do know is that if I feel like I have to lie, I'll just quit participating here. Being honest here is a reflection of me being honest with myself, sharing here is a version of arguing with myself. The entire point of participating is to authentically share & work to find a better me, and by extension, a better M. And for me, right now, that's focused on fixing my foundation, finding my feelings, being content in my own skin again. And that is not something I can do by bringing the destruction of confession into my M. I want to survive this. I have to get through my damaged self the only way I know how. Confession, for me, is the ultimate enabler of my worst self. I may change my mind down the line, but for now, it's exactly what I don't need--total permission to check out of this life.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
familyfirst
Member
Member # 42651
Default  Posted: 5:50 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

very brave with your admission for the bottle. We are 2 peas Ms Split. I wonder if someone who's been around longer on SI can comment on this, but I'm fairly certain there's a link between abusers and infidelity. I toe the line of "very social" vs "high functioning alcoholic" every day. During the heat of my PA it was worse to try and cope with the stress, now in the aftermath I feel like I need it even more, to try and cope with the depression. Affairs are a drug of sort, you get a high, and I'm guessing certain personalities are more vunerable to wanting that high (no meant to be an excuse, just a hypothesis). I don't pretend to know your full situation, but what I've learned in IC is that personally I need to find ways to stimulate my wild/risky/high seeking side and not just bury her. We're exploring ways to incorporate acceptable challanges and risks so I don't feel the need to binge with another A or alcohol. This was a big revelation for me, and I really want to stop the cycle before I topple over this wonderful life of mine. Plus I want to actually feel every day that this wonderful life is wonderful.

Don't leave SI. You are smart enough to weed out the non-constructive responses. There are pearls in these posts.


Posts: 218 | Registered: Mar 2014
SlowUptake
Member
Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 5:59 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

SlowUptake...

wow, what a crappy thing to say to someone that already has expressed they're leaving the site due to remarks like yours.

Thanks

You're right, the first sentence was harsh.
I apologise Split.

The second part is just something for Split to think about.
It may or may not be valid.


Me:WS,50+
Her:BS,50+ (WantToWakeUp)
Married 33yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.


Posts: 390 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
trying2live
New Member
Member # 41231
Default  Posted: 6:02 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

splitintwo I know how you feel because I feel like I am going through the same thing. It is an awful feeling to go through. My husband says we have nothing in common and he doesn't know how he feels. He is always comparing me to others (even though he may not realize it) Yet he doesn't try to take interest in the things I like. I would do anything for him. But for once I would like to feel like I matter.


"The most difficult phase of life is not when no one understand you; It's when you don't understand yourself." - Unknown

Posts: 27 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: East Coast
splitintwo
Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 6:03 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

BrokenButTrying--I think that's my root fear. We got married young (I was 21), and when we grew, I went left, he went right. Some of the issues bother me because he's devout catholic, too, and his conservative worldview can be very much so in conflict with things that serve the greater good.

Anyway, from a broad pov, I think things like "It doesn't matter; these things will never affect our world." If I get the debate itch, I go to a political forum & engage a bit.

And it threw me off when something I always assumed would be a theoretical difference of opinion had a real potential to cause unrest in our marriage. I'm hoping that we'll be able to bridge future issues as they arise. It's a learning experience, to be sure, and I truly do lean on the MC advice/lessons on how to hear each other, converse, understand. It's my nature to worry about things that may never happen...it's a control thing. I like to prepare for all possible outcomes. It's a coping mechanism.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
Sad in AZ
Member
Member # 24239
Default  Posted: 6:04 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

OK let''s get back to your original topic, and I''m not judging your decision to keep your A to yourself. It just fits into the discussion.

You''re surprised that your H has a very ''law and order'' approach to your suggestion that you illegally obtain something for a relative. However, you empirically state that if he ever found out about your A, he would summarily D you. Therefore, I''m surprised that you are surprised at his attitude. IMO, this is a case of your not knowing yourself. Perhaps not wanting to know yourself.

Also, you say that you like to debate. I understand that. I love a good discussion. You did have a debate. You want to do something, and you want him to agree that it is a good thing because you see it as a good thing. He can''t agree, and he has given you his reason. That, my dear, is a debate. I would suggest that your intent was for approval, not debate.

You have to be honest with yourself. That is the basis of this site. Some self-examination might be in order.


I solemnly swear that I am up to no good.

Posts: 20229 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Upstate NY
TrustedHer
Member
Member # 23328
Default  Posted: 6:20 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

splitintwo, I apologize in advance for addressing you in 3rd person.

Ok, people, I seldom come to Wayward, and I see no stop sign.

1. Every veteran knows that full disclosure is (ultimately) the best policy.
2. splitintwo is (currently) in the take-it-to-the-grave camp.
3. We are all concerned for her BH. Hell, as a BH myself, I certainly am.
4. Nonetheless, the way to change her mind is not to beat her over the head. She's proven that her skull breaks 2x4's.
5. splitintwo has more issues than Newsweek. FOO issues, addiction issues, fog issues. She's mere weeks out of the A, and only days into NC.

I propose it might be more fruitful if y'all try to help her gain what control she can. Aid her in making baby steps in the areas she's trying hard. GENTLY point out the logical inconsistencies, like her insistence that her BH is an idiot, so it's ok for her to make all the important decisions in the marriage by herself.

Help her deal with these HUGE immediate issues:
1. Addiction (split, are you in a program?)
2. Addiction (split, is your BH in alanon?)
3. NC. Help her find the strength.
4. Father's suicide (split, are you in IC?)
5. KISA tendencies (split, what are your priorities? Who's important to you? What is the legacy you leave them?)
6. split's self-harm (split, do you have the suicide prevention line on speed-dial?)
7. MC. Yes, it's limited by her living a lie, but limited is not worthless. Building a house on a foundation of sand, but maybe there's time to shore it up later.

Help her make the baby steps, gain some control, some perspective, and some maturity. Control looks like the main issue to me. She's good at controlling other people, but needs to learn to control herself. And to learn to see there are things she can't control.

splitintwo, you're new enough, but you have noticed the SI wayward's justly earned reputation for being hard on newbies. It's because they care. You just don't see that they're right. Yet.

Hang around. Don't go away. Get stronger. Get better.

It won't hurt you to listen to what people say. You still get to choose your own path. We all do.


Take care of yourself. There's a great future out there. It won't come to you; you have to go to it.

Posts: 5165 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: DeepInTheHeartOf, TX
splitintwo
Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 6:31 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

SlowUptake--I have the tendency to "mitigate" damage & avoid blame. I have been very careful not to frame my A that way. My A is my fault, & mine alone, not my husband's, not my past, not my alcoholism, nothing. That was and is mine to own.

Sad in AZ--I don't know why I didn't associate his "law & order" worldview with this, but I didn't. My sister thinks I'm a dumbass because she saw it coming, but still.

And I wanted discussion, or at least, I was open to it. But this is how it went initially. "Things are looking grim. Even the PA at her doc's office is telling her to go buy some pot. I know someone who could get it" and then BH interjects (because he can see where I'm going) with an immediate "no. It's illegal."

That is not a discussion. Sometimes it's not bout being right, it's about being heard. I needed him to hear me re: my helplessness with her suffering, he needed to hear that I've accepted her death, I'm only interested in easing her passing. And so on. We actually needed to talk it through. And we did. But we both have a tendency to jump to end game, and at that point, one of us needs to back it up & walk us through the steps for how we got to that point. Odds are decent we've made a wrong assumption or two along the way, & it's good to hash it out.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
splitintwo
Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 6:45 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

TrustedHer--I do have more issues than Newsweek. I'm trying to get myself to a place where I can do IC. I am not suicidal. I was in my depressive state, but I am not now. I do still fully recognize my addictions & my desires for escape. I am not in AA because of things like confession, and for me, confession is a gateway drug to oblivion. Since I can dry drunk, I can mitigate some damage. I appreciate the 2x4s & they helped greatly with things like NC, but I need to get to the confession point in my own time. My route may be very jagged, but the end goal is likely the same as others'...and I'll get there. It's just going to take a while. I struggle enough with replacing my general doctor (she left the state)....the prospect of finding an IC is still overwhelming, but it's high on my list. In the meantime, I'm reading & working on me.

[This message edited by splitintwo at 6:47 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)]


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
splitintwo
Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 6:54 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

This is fascinating, familyfirst & very familiar, thanks for articulating it, especially the last line.

I don't pretend to know your full situation, but what I've learned in IC is that personally I need to find ways to stimulate my wild/risky/high seeking side and not just bury her. We're exploring ways to incorporate acceptable challanges and risks so I don't feel the need to binge with another A or alcohol. This was a big revelation for me, and I really want to stop the cycle before I topple over this wonderful life of mine. Plus I want to actually feel every day that this wonderful life is wonderful.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
FindMyselfAgain
Member
Member # 36969
Default  Posted: 8:24 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

I am so very happy that you decided to hang around a little longer split.

Keep opening up here. You are getting some remarkable advice and encouragement. I don't know if anything I have said has helped in anyway, and I hope you see that I was not trying to attack or offend you in any way.

As I said previously, I am the BW in my M. However, I do know how hard it is to look at who you really are and what you are capable of. I have been there, and in many respects still am. I am a work in progress and have my own unhealthy patterns that I am trying to break. So I can relate to you very much on working on yourself and offer my support as you struggle.

((split)) you are safe here. I'm glad to see you letting down your defenses.


DDay: October 7, 2011
R finally started in earnest: April 2014

Posts: 194 | Registered: Sep 2012
AML04
Member
Member # 39682
Default  Posted: 8:29 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

I wanted to respond but will leave the confess/don't confess thing out.

We actually needed to talk it through. And we did. But we both have a tendency to jump to end game, and at that point, one of us needs to back it up & walk us through the steps for how we got to that point. Odds are decent we've made a wrong assumption or two along the way, & it's good to hash it out.

You were able to talk this out and reach a compromise. It sounds like you asked for more discussion and he was open to it. From your post it seems you're worried about a hypothetical issue coming up where you cannot agree. Why not cross that bridge IF you come to it?

My question is, do you like who your husband is as a person? Does thinking about him make you smile? Do you laugh with him? Agree (for the most part) on how to raise your children? I think those questions are more important than the possible future issue you might have. Think about all of the positive qualities your H has. Do you want to be a better person FOR him?

I also deal with the urge to disappear. It doesn't seem as bad now as yours seems to be but it's there. I can't compartmentalize but sometimes I shut off the emotions that have come with traumatic events. I now know that's not healthy. All it does is keep you from feeling anything at all. I fight my urge by trying to connect with people who know me and love me.


Me-BS Him-WH DS 5/12
Met 2000, Married 2004
DDay 5/26/13, TT through 8/13
2.5 yr EA w/co-worker, PA 12/12 to 4/13
Hopeful for R

Posts: 870 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: MA
bionicgal
Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 8:56 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

Split,
I don't know how old you are, but my hope is that you can start peeling away all the layers and start living a more authentic life. . . one that will eventually lead to greater happiness. Affairs are about escape, as is alcoholism, and as you have found, escaping one's life inevitably leads to more pain.

Gently, you do seem to have some thinking that is a little awry (such as the idea that truth is somehow a dangerous thing), so I hope that you can strengthen yourself and find the courage to go to IC, and to read, or go to AA if that is applicable. To reach out. I am guessing your affair was a reaching out of sorts, but in an inappropriate and ultimately self-destructive way.

It feels to me like you are a person who has so thoroughly fortressed their heart, that they have difficulty recognizing help or real kindness when it is being offered. There is so much wisdom here. . not every person will resonate with you, but hang in there, and try to have courage.

I won't comment on the argument other than to say that you are likely not seeing your H clearly right now, and should probably hold off on any judgements about your M until you get some assistance. Marriage is all about compromise, and 2 people having a difference of opinion on a naturally divisive topic is hardly reason to call your marriage into question. However, looking for reasons to discount your H and his point of view is sort of standard wayward behavior.

Things can look very different in six months if you take risks and allow yourself to be uncomfortable. You can handle it; lesser people have.

[This message edited by bionicgal at 8:58 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)]


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is more like a mental break than a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 2004 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
inconnu
Member
Member # 24518
Default  Posted: 9:44 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

Since I can dry drunk, I can mitigate some damage.

You go on telling yourself, honey. But as someone who is watching her alcoholic elderly mother die a very slow death, I'm not buying into your delusion. There is no way to mitigate any damage when you're still an active alcoholic, dry or otherwise. All that can happen is the damage gets compounded. And it's ugly, really really ugly.


Say what you wanna say and let the words fall out...honestly
I wanna see you be brave

Pretty pretty please, don't you ever ever feel
Like you're less than, less than perfect


Posts: 12151 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: TX
Girlietoo
Member
Member # 38719
Default  Posted: 10:03 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

Respectfully, I am a BS and I would definitely preferred not to know. Of course, I want all the other pieces of R (working on himself, being a better husband) but no, I would very much prefer not to have this piece of information.

I know that ^ isn't a popular opinion and it doesn't fit in every situation but I do think it is an option, for some people.

My WH have opposite view points on a lot of issues near and dear to our hearts. In the past it has caused me to question why I was even with him, so strong were my values on certain issues. Thankfully, we now work through these issues with consences decision making and are willing to step aside if an issue is essential for the happiness of the other.


Me- 40
Him- 47
March 9, 2013- the day my heart died

Posts: 247 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: Canada
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 10:19 PM, April 22nd (Tuesday)

Just had he chance to read through all this since my last post and I have to say I'm glad you decided to stay with us. I commend you for your honesty. It's not easy to open yourself up and leave yourself vulnerable like this. Continue to stay and post.

yop


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2154 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
timidhope
Member
Member # 43189
Default  Posted: 12:03 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

Split, I'm a wGF and thought along similar lines. I figured whatever happens would have happened regardless if he knew the truth of what happened.

If we had a doomed relationship, it won't need this to push things along. Conversely, if we had a strong relationship, he doesn't need to know how I've robbed him of the image of the GF he thought he has.

He told me I'm an expert liar and I think because like jokes, for it to be effective, it needs to have a certain degree of truth. I justified myself out of every single good deed I could have done for myself (not lie about attractions to another man, not start the EA and then not turn it into a PA). The truth I'm uncovering in the past few weeks are that I'm so good at lying, I lied to myself and failed to protect myself. By protecting myself I mean the choice to start any EA/PA isn't one that brings good into your life and should be avoided at all costs. Obviously I failed to protect him as well; he was so emotionally invested in me and the amount of pain resulting from my actions was excruciating to endure. It's like watching your SO bleed profusely, staring at your hand holding the knife and watching it stab repeatedly. The problem for him was, the longer I held the truth, the more it hurt.

Some debated that with time, you allow the relationship to develop and you to build up that trust again since the infidelity. I'll say it takes some love and great fears of loss to keep at it.

TrustedHer brought up a great point that is applicable to me as well: control is a huge issue. I recognize now it isn't fair to play with someone's life like this, to deny him of his opportunity at any stage of life to make a decision on his significant other.

I wish you the best of luck. Instead of thinking that you will take this to your grave, you probably should consider if it can be hidden until his passing. After your passing, the only person who can answer his questions is now gone and he's left to suffer alone.

I wish you strength in whatever your endeavor but most of all, strength to really understand yourself.

[This message edited by timidhope at 12:10 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)]


DDay: April 2014

Posts: 89 | Registered: Apr 2014
iwillNOT
Member
Member # 40605
Default  Posted: 2:25 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

Split, I have read this thread through, some things you say are extremely difficult to take in as a BS. I have my own opinions about what you are choosing and why. I don't agree with so much of what you are thinking right now and I feel like you are setting yourself and your BS for a virtual Hiroshima-style explosion. But...

Here you are. You are still posting after you have been challenged, disagreed with and 2x4'd. You could have disappeared in a huff to go find another forum with folks who would be your yes-men, but you didn't. You are still here and still engaging. You are trying to look at yourself straight- on and I commend you for that.

Good for you. Trying for honest self examination is some scary shit. Opening up to the possibility that there are other ways you could handle this situation -I see that just barely beginning. Any steps down the path to self improvement and growth are good steps, and not wasted. You may end up in a place you never thought you could attain. I do wish you the best and I hope you continue with this work you've begun.


Me: BS, 43
Him: WH, 44
Together 21 years
Married 14 years
Kiddos 2,6,8,10
Dday#1 2004, 3 years after EA/PA co-worker MOW
Dday#2 8-6-13, 13 months EA/9months PA with co-worker MOW - caught not confessed
Rugsweep now, pay later. Ask me how I know.

Posts: 510 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Midwest
standinghere
Member
Member # 34689
Default  Posted: 4:13 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

It may be projection, on my part, but what I read here seems to describe an internal argument that you have with your husband, which may seem to get resolved on the surface each time, but which remains unresolved internally at least on your part.

What I write below is not to bash you. I spent 4 years in MC, and our counselor, a very kind and intelligent woman, had to really work with my wife on her perceptions because of her FOO issues and her codependent and secretive behavior.

"Pot" that you can get, with minimal risk, he may see as much riskier as he looks at his kids and his wife and thinks of "what's the worst that can happen" (one of my childhood friends found that out, he died with a bullet in his head over a little pot, left behind a wife and a fatherless child). You view it differently. Sounds like you still view it differently. From what you write it sounds like he and you came to a conclusion with the palliative care doctor angle, but you are still obviously stewing over it.

Does he know that you are still stewing over it?

Then, there is the affair, which he doesn't know about, and which colors every conversation and disagreement you have. Are you sure, when you are in disagreement, about anything, and he is irritated or angry, doesn't matter what it is, that you aren't standing there thinking "if you really knew what I'd done you'd really be angry".

From what I've learned, in 4 years of MC as well as in 30 years of professional practice, I'd be inclined to believe that you are involved in an invisible power struggle with your husband, that he may not even be aware of (or if he is aware of it he is not aware of how serious and deeply it runs) so he simply cannot understand you and your positions and where you are coming from.

You cheated on him with another man, this is not truly a secret, others know, but it is hidden from your husband. He is kept ignorant.

Others know. Think of the position it puts him into. Go onto the BS postings and think about what it is like for the perceptions others have of your husband when they know that he is clueless that his wife betrayed him. How could he be clueless, "trust", suspicious untrusting people are never clueless...they have clues all the time and we call them paranoid and fearful. Trusting people are laughed at behind their backs by others, and I've witnessed that behavior by men who laugh when they talk about how the f----- someone other guys girlfriend or wife and the spouse or partner doesn't know about it (never mind that these are some of the most messed up men I've ever known who have really awful personal lives).

resent me for being willing to break the law & put our family at risk

What is his job as a father? To protect his family, first and foremost. What is your job as a mother? To protect your family, first and foremost. Not to relieve your relatives suffering, she has doctors and nurses for that. I know, I've been through that more than once with family, and doctors do actually know what they are doing particularly today with hospice agencies and hospice nursing. They don't need you to put your family at risk.

Yet, you indicate that you are willing to put your family at risk, and have already done so in other ways.

I can't conceive of a way to bridge that gap

Perhaps that is where you should start, perhaps that is the problem.

I value intellectual connection, debate, all that, and I can't get it at home very often

No, you don't. You have lied to your husband, cheated on him, conceal things from him, and continue to engage in that behavior with others to his detriment.

You have said as much, you can't be honest with him, open with him, or the marriage ends. By doing so, you are manipulating him with your behavior, to protect you from the consequences of your own actions. You are not protecting him, or your children. You are protecting yourself. Dishonesty in the marital relationship affects the children in ways you can't imagine.

I will do anything in my power to help ease her suffering

That is not constructive behavior for someone who has higher priorities, namely the safety and security of your husband and children. That is what is referred to as Knight in Shining Armor behavior.

Opposing world views don't cause disconnection or irreparable harm in marriages, dishonesty and deception do. You will never get that "connection" unless you are willing to engage in constructive relationship struggles that ALL relationships have, in an honest and open manner. If you color that with secrets that you know will end the relationship, then you are manipulating the other person into staying, not letting them make the decision based on the truths.

Good luck, but there is no way this ends well without honesty, openness, and willingness to talk and letting the other person be free to make their own decisions.


BH - Me - Late 30's (now late 40's)
WW - Her - Late 30's (now late 40's)
4 Children
Her - Love of my life...still is.
Reconciled - Partly...she can't get over it.
Her - Thunderstruck by what she did.

Posts: 999 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: USA
splitintwo
Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 8:00 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

Ultimately, everything in my life comes down to control.

And this OP illustrates that yet again. I posted because it was still nagging at me days after the situation had resolved in my favor. That told me, clearly, that it wasn't about getting what I wanted, but I didn't know what it was about...talking gives clarity, outside views give clarity, framing it gives clarity.

And, for me, it wasn't about the win. It's not about verbally beating my husband into submission of my idea of right (I know it comes across that way here, but in actual practice, this is not a fair assessment of our life & our interactions). It was about the fact that I thought I "knew" my husband & I could still be blindsided by his reaction. Had I anticipated it, I'd have approached the entire conversation differently. As it was, I took a very casual approach because I thought we were on the same page from the start. We weren't. That opened up a flood of "what ifs" in my brain, and like I said...it all goes back to control.

Like someone said, I have more issues than Newsweek. I work hard at NOT blaming those things because I don't want to allow them to have control over me, my actions, my behaviors. With damn near all of the things I battle against, I had no control of the original situation. It's important to me to own my behaviors now because I want to feel like I have control over them. I realize this can go rather badly, be taken to the extreme, all of that, and I'm working on it.

I do appreciate the honesty in this thread & in SI in general. Leaving here would be detrimental to me, and I don't wish to do that. I just need to control future threads with a stop-sign, at least until I'm at the point that I can handle the potential wrath of many BSs at my current stance of focusing on fixing myself without allowing my husband to have the ability to honestly assess our marriage in light of my A. I hear you. I understand your POV. Your arguments make sense. But I cannot do that. And my reasoning relates to this point from bionicgirl:

you do seem to have some thinking that is a little awry (such as the idea that truth is somehow a dangerous thing)

I know me. I know I have been completely shut off from emotion for over 30 years. I am only just now starting to feel again. Slowly. One thing at a time. One layer at a time. One emotion at a time. I needed to implode to find truths about me that I didn't know. I needed to break to a point where I'd get help. And I've begun that process. I was able to use SSRIs to fix the "off" parts of my brain, and now that I'm off of them, I can finally begin addressing my issues for real & without being mired in the incapacitating hell of depression.

And because I'm actually doing that...taking the hard look, reflecting, reading, trying to fix me...I can't give myself the "out" that this truth--my A--affords. My instinct is cut&run, and I will always, always have some part of me that wants to hide in a bottle. The quickest route to that life is to allow myself to be cast out, fulfill the "unworthy, horrible person" inner monologue, etc. Like I said--It's control. It's dealing with a stream vs. a flood. If I want to fix me--and I do--I need to take it one step at a time.

As a somewhat related point--I think I finally understand what you're talking about when you all mention the affair fog. I had trouble grasping this for a long time because my affair--at least the parts that mattered to me--was "over" long before I stopped behaving inappropriately. Looking back, I can see those fuzzy parts...I can see the fog timeframe rather clearly. And I can see it lifting. When my SSRIs started working, it helped even more. I gained more clarity when I accepted my alcoholism (it's no real shock that my sobriety date & the end of my affair are one in the same). Every day, I get a bit more grounded. Every day, I feel a little bit more. And most days, that's a scary place to be. But I am here. And that's what matters.



BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
StrongerOne
Member
Member # 36915
Default  Posted: 8:43 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

So I know I said I wouldn't respond any more -- not because I'm triggered, but because I'm morally offended *and* because I really do see this dishonesty of not telling your BH as a bomb ticking away in your marriage.

Split, you are not getting the *wrath* of BS's in this thread. We are not being hyper emotional and unreasonably angry at you. We are giving you our perspective, quite rationally and under control (if we don't, the mods will ban us).

I do think you are trying to protect your children. I think you believe you are protecting your BH and your marriage. And I think you are fundamentally mistaken in these beliefs.

I'm glad you're sticking around and working through the other issues in yourself and in your marriage. Good luck in resolving these. And even more sympathy and good luck to your BH.


DDay Feb 2011.
In R.

Posts: 866 | Registered: Sep 2012
AlwaysOnEdge
New Member
Member # 42821
Default  Posted: 8:45 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

Hi Split, I have read through this thread and im so glad you are staying here. I hope it gives you heart to know that so many strangers do care about you and have been in similar situations. Just reading some threads has helped me immensely.

Sorry to bring up the A confession thing again but, as a BH, i just wanted to maybe give you a different perspective on something you said;

You said that should you confess the A then you KNOW it will result in D.

Well thats exactly where i was 4 years ago after i had found out about my WW EA. I KNEW that should anything happen again then I would leave. It wasnt just something i KNEW, it was who i was, it was part of my soul, part of my very being. There was never a question during that last four years that should my WW even THINK about doing anything then i would be gone, immediatley. I cant get accross how definate I felt about it, how so completely sure I was. Not only that but my WW KNEW exactly how i felt, she KNEW that if anything happened i would walk, no debate no discussion nothing.

Fast forward to Dec 2013 when i find out that my WW had an EA that turned into a PA, that last month I found out that she had had ANOTHER EA that she wanted to turn into a PA, and that she had also had yet another short EA that both wanted initially to turn into a PA.

I stayed.

Not because i was weak, but because i can see how much we love each other NOW, despite all our differences. And because i can also see how much in the fog she was, how her FOO issues affected her, how hard she is working to "fix" herself, and how remorseful she is.

None of this may apply in your case, im just trying to say that i dont think anyone can KNOW the outcome of the discovery from an affair.
Keep strong, you may be surprised at how much your BH may be able to help you if/when you decide/are able to be fully open with him

Good luck and ((((split)))), I truly hope you and BH find peace together


DDay 2am 04 Dec 2013
BS (Me)45
WW 46
Together 19 1/2 Years
Married 9 1/2 Years
3 Children, 22, 14, 6
In R.

Posts: 8 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: England
IWantDoOver
Member
Member # 39440
Default  Posted: 8:48 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

you are involved in an invisible power struggle with your husband

Perhaps. Since no 2 married people have exactly the same perspective, there will always be issues of power and control. But I think splitintwo has a handle on that:

Sometimes it's not bout being right, it's about being heard. I needed him to hear me

Nobody wants to be "wrong" all the time.
Nobody wants to feel unheard in a M.

Sometimes I feel like I'm in an invisible power struggle with my spouse.
Sometimes I feel like I'm in an invisible power struggle with myself.
I can only imagine how much more difficult this would all be if I were also involved with an invisible power struggle with the bottle, since splitintwo is keenly aware of her alcohol issues.

It's all fine in theory...he can have his worldview, I can have mine. But when life happens & we have to bridge that disconnect, it occurs to me that there very well will be situations that we can't find that middle ground on. And when that happens, then what?

You deal with it if/when it happens. Maybe you agree to disagree. Maybe you take turns. Maybe you D. But awfulizing the future and worrying about doomsday is a terrible way to walk through everyday life.

But we both have a tendency to jump to end game, and at that point, one of us needs to back it up & walk us through the steps for how we got to that point. Odds are decent we've made a wrong assumption or two along the way, & it's good to hash it out.

I think you're jumping to end game here. Step back. Take a look at the big picture.

"feeling like I don't even know my BH."
Take some time. Get to know him. Get to know YOURSELF. But remember, in your eagerness to debate past issues you may have shut down his willingness to share the real him, the inner him, with you.

Sometimes it's not bout being right, it's about being heard. I needed him to hear me

How can you do a better job of HEARING him?


Peace

Posts: 212 | Registered: Jun 2013
steadychevy
Member
Member # 42608
Default  Posted: 9:09 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

I was not going to get into this thread but here I am. I am a BH, splitintwo. I cheered when you came back to this post. I think it shows that even when you get some replies you disagree about you are still driven to move forward.

I am of the mindset that your BH should be provided with the truth. You have said that you want to be honest. I don't think honesty is selective - that you can be honest about some things but not others, IMO.

I knew that if my wife had an affair I would immediately divorce her. Yet here I am struggling. The worst part is the continued lies and deceit and defiance. The years of lies building up to the DDays are very difficult. IMO, it is very difficult to have a strong relationship where openess and honesty are questionable. There always seems to be a chasm that inhibits a true, loving, mature relationship. When one has secrets it affects the entire relationship. Perhaps secrets have affected your relationship so that your BH doesn't really know what he is up against except it does not seem to be very good and he doesn't really know why. I don't know your situation but it seems like a possibility to me.

I know in our relationship my wife was always distant for some reason. It did not seem to me that she was fully committed. As it turns out there are a truck load of childhood issues that were never dealt with. But I always knew there was something wrong but didn't know why. In turn I did things that helped distance my wife from me.

IMO a relationship that includes secrets of a major type will continue to have difficulties. I also think that it is disrespectful of the partner to keep them in the dark.

I hope you do not take these comments as an attack. I hope you continue to work on you. I think to work on the M honesty is required. It may be very painful. It may have a result not hoped for but I think it will be a difficult life without it. IMO


BH(me)63
WW-57
M 37 years
DDay1-09/1/13;DDay2-10/13;DDay3 12/19/13
LTA-09/02-11/02 EA;12/02-?/06 PA
OM -COW
"dates" w/3 former lovers post engagement;ONS w/stranger post commitment;years of lies, denial

Posts: 100 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Canada
splitintwo
Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 9:25 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

Split, you are not getting the *wrath* of BS's in this thread. We are not being hyper emotional and unreasonably angry at you. We are giving you our perspective, quite rationally and under control (if we don't, the mods will ban us).

Bad word choice on my part--apologies.

I know it's not the intent, but when a thread turns into what feels like a barrage of "you must confess" messages, it feels like an attack. And this is a space I want to feel safe for me to work through things, figure out what's really going on, make healthy changes for me & my M. Ultimately those changes may lead me to a path of total truth, or I may remain in the "take it to the grave" camp. Time & effort will tell.

edited to replace TT with total truth (which is what I meant)...I failed to realize TT = trickle truth. Apologies.

You (and I mean the collective you, not you personally) are preaching to the choir by framing it as selfish choice, hypocritical, immoral, unfair to BH, and on & on. I am aware. Everything about my A & other whatnot is counter to my own moral code. But my survival, my future, dictates that I make that choice right now anyway. The only way out is through. I am in awe of those of you that can, while broken, blow up everything in your world & rise from the ashes like a phoenix. I do not have that faith in my own strength, at least not at this juncture. And so I will continue, one day at a time.

[This message edited by splitintwo at 10:17 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)]


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
familyfirst
Member
Member # 42651
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

when a thread turns into what feels like a barrage of "you must confess" messages, it feels like an attack

Perhaps take the grave bit off your tagline would help others stay on topic?


Posts: 218 | Registered: Mar 2014
FindMyselfAgain
Member
Member # 36969
Default  Posted: 10:10 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

((split))

Don't have the headspace myself (I've got subscriptions rather than issues too) for a real helpful reply this morning, but want to give you what encouragement I can and feel a desire to address one issue...

Warning: concerning confession, skip and come back to it later if you're not in a place you can hear it, okay?


**********
All or nothing. Either find your courage to confess all to your BH, or don't. TT is more likely to kill the relationship than having all the truth out in the open to be dealt with.
**********


That's all I need to get across to you. You are clearly a smart, brave and strong woman. Keep going, you're doing fine. What you are doing is so hard. Just want to tell you I am proud of you.

[This message edited by FindMyselfAgain at 10:11 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)]


DDay: October 7, 2011
R finally started in earnest: April 2014

Posts: 194 | Registered: Sep 2012
splitintwo
Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 10:13 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

Edited. Thanks, familyfirst. I keep messing with it. I feel like the info has to be there (now that I've added a tagline with some of my details) because it's honest. And people initially responding to my OP were talking/asking questions like I had a Dday.

Since Dday is the overarching assumption here, not owning my decision to postpone that event, perhaps indefinitely, in a public way is confusing in this forum. It does color everything I say, especially when I engage in a space where 100% honesty is expected by many as a matter of course. It's like a microcosm of the honesty so many have articulated re: restoring in my M. The prevailing belief is that you should have that info so that you can make your judgements with all the facts. So, I'm starting with owning that decision here.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
splitintwo
Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

All or nothing. Either find your courage to confess all to your BH, or don't. TT is more likely to kill the relationship than having all the truth out

Ack! Sorry! My misreading of the abbreviation. I thought TT = Total Truth, not Trickle Truth! Whoops. I will edit my former post.

Yes, it will be all or nothing. Should I go with confession, it will be a total truth confession.

And thanks for the encouragement. We're all at such different places in this journey. The stories, the struggles, the highs & lows, I read on SI are invaluable.

[This message edited by splitintwo at 10:19 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)]


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
StillStanding1
Member
Member # 40144
Default  Posted: 10:24 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

You're working hard at being a better person and I am glad you continue down that path. Stick with it! Keep posting and reading and thinking. Debate it in your head. You are making progress. Sometimes we all have to take things one step at a time (and sometimes we take a step backward). As long as you are moving forward, it's still progress. Don't give up.


Me: 40s BS, Him: 40s WH
M 21 yrs - 3 teens
LTA = 2+ yrs, Dday = 2/10/13, he moved out, he officially moved back in 1/25/14 and our work continues...

Posts: 692 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: MidWest
GotPlayed
Member
Member # 41294
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

Hi. Yet another BH here.

Not going to go to the "tell/don''t tell". I found out, she didn''t tell me. And now I understand her telling me instead of me finding out would have gone a long way towards R (I''m Ding right now), other than to tell you that simply form a logistical standpoint, note that you can''t control what the AP or other people who may know do or say, so at some point he may find out anyway. If you''re "never going to tell" because "you know what will happen" (even though you seem surprised by plenty of his reactions to other things), so better have a plan for that, or just S and get it over with.

Having put that out of the way, may I theorize that the fight over the Medical Marijuana, the fight here over whether or not to stay in SI given contrary opinions on disclosure, and the fights with your BH are the same fight. An unwillingness to go with your opinion automatically means you disengage and discard differing opinion or threaten to do so, and as much as you say you value a good debate, ignoring input or threatening to leave is not debating - it''s a negotiation tactic at a used car sales lot.

It is indeed selfish to say the end justify the means, when the means must be you yourself providing the medical M relief (risking jail in the process). You could have negotiated. Why does it have to be you? Why couldn''t you offer to pay for a portion of it but have your sister, a friend or other family member actually provide it - someone without a family to risk? Same end, more palatable means for the man you say is the love of your life? Whatever happened to negotiation? The lack of wanting to negotiate about it (being more in the background of the help rather than providing it yourself) makes me feel that you want to be seen as helping more than actually helping. Maybe a way to lessen guilt?

I just learned in DivorceCare class that men want Honor, Dignity and Respect in a relationship. Which of these three do you routinely provide your husband? All three are broken during an A. The last one (dare I say last two?) you seem to be breaking all the time, when you say things like "if I don''t get agreement on X thing that may affect the whole family negatively (whether it''s an A or violating written laws yourself or what have you), I''m going to do it anyway". And if you get arrested for it you''ll lose honor, too.

During her A and while I was in the dark, stbxww used to go to the AP (who is truly a horrible person), get disappointed by the way he treated her, "come back to me", go for a little while "happy" with me and then see something in me that "disappointed her" (usually something minor but a great excuse), then go back to AP. The overall theme seemed to be her putting me in a sick dynamic, a game I didn''t know I was playing, of "my way or the highway". Is there something like this going on in your relationship? And I don''t mean going back to AP or anything, but the overall mechanic of "if I don''t get what I want, I get disappointed and see reasons to end it or blame him or X" without telling him? I seem to have detected just that dynamic on this thread a bit, not just in the overall discussion but even with threatening to leave SI, then not really.

And to go back full circle without having intended to when I started writing this - could it be that you are fighting the disclosure fight you know you will eventually have to have by proxy by contriving debates like this with your BH? Because that would also be unfair to your BH. He''s really fighting a fight he doesn''t know about, because you''re using a proxy topic you know you can win, but that is still "end justifying the means". Maybe if you win one of these, then you can disclose. But it''s not working. And it''s not going to work even if you did changed his mind to yours.

Maybe that is something you should bring to IC. Not specifically about the medical M or A, but the overall dynamic, which you seem to have displayed here with perfect strangers. Don''t run away when things get tough - if it''s not tough, you''re not learning. When honesty and integrity are missing it gives way to all sorts of broken dynamics, and you can''t provide the dignity and respect your H needs. You keep mentioning survival. Survival mode may be a good place to start fixing yourself, but until you get out of that mode you won''t be able to make a lot of progress.

Good luck.


Master of my Fate, Captain of my Soul.
BS 42, WW 41. 18y married
DD: 11/5/13
DS10 Autism, DD8
OM: Reformed wife-beater ex-con
D filed 1/14/14 by WW (never warn them, they'll get ahead)
Married a powder keg

Posts: 749 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: California
RippedSoul
Member
Member # 40055
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

In many important ways, my SLAWH could be your male twin. I love him dearly and he is a wonderful man, so that's not meant to be insulting. Like you, though, he's an addict, and that adds SO many layers of complexity to an already difficult situation--infidelity.

Our R--if it can be termed that--does not resemble what the experts on this site, rightfully, say it should. My eyes are wide open, though, and it's in my best interests to stay with my WH until our youngest is out of high school. So as long as I'm loved and as long as he's progressing, I'm staying. He's worth the wait IF, in the end, I get his "healed" version. IF NOT, then my youngest two have had a father who is more engaged with them and who is kinder than he's been in years.

Since he's still an active addict (although the addiction has been transferred to video games and to spending money--less hurtful things to me and our M than having affairs and paying for escorts) and since he's moving so slowly, my healing has taken a back seat. THAT irks, sometimes. He told me, a month ago, that he's grieving (for his father who recently passed away); I simply mentioned that I am, too (not for his father, whom I loved, but for our M as it was pre-A). He knew what I meant. But, as unfair as it is to me, he's legitimately not able to go there until he gets his act together on the addiction front.

So I continue to work on myself BY myself. I go to IC (3 years now), I go to and participate fully in S-Anon (6 months), I read constantly, I post and absorb everything I read here, I share with my BFF, I work out regularly (alone or with my kids), and I try to include him--without nagging--in one activity a day. If things don't work out the way I want them to work out, I'll still be a stronger person and able to stand on my own.

I'm in the "he needs to know" camp, but I'm not militant about WHEN he needs that info (as long as he isn't suspecting anything right now). When my WH confessed to me, I cried out of RELIEF! I was so incredibly grateful that I wasn't paranoid. I hardly heard what he said because it felt so good for my mind to have the assurance that I wasn't "cray-cray."

What I'm saying with all this is that I "get" that sometimes our surviving infidelity takes a different path. In general, I think the path paved by this site is the right one for most people. And the wisdom of most of the posters has been absolutely invaluable to me--even when I don't feel like I can follow it at the present time. Take what you're ready to take right now, heal yourself in that particular area, keep your eyes open for more nuggets of wisdom, ask for help when you need it, for pep talks when you need them, for courage when you need it, etc. As long as you are progressing, working on your demons, becoming a better person, finding authenticity, you are becoming a safer person for your BH.


BW: 49; SLAWH: 46; M: 23 yrs
DD#1--11/30/12 (prostitute #1)
DD#2--1/29/13 (AP, escorts #1 & #2)
DD#3--9/13 (trolling MILF site)
DD#4--10/8/13 (EA with AP cont'd)
DD: 20; DD: 18; DS: 16; DS: 14
PS: I've NEVER NOT edited my posts

Posts: 459 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: California
splitintwo
Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 11:09 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

During her A and while I was in the dark, stbxww used to go to the AP (who is truly a horrible person), get disappointed by the way he treated her, "come back to me", go for a little while "happy" with me and then see something in me that "disappointed her" (usually something minor but a great excuse), then go back to AP. The overall theme seemed to be her putting me in a sick dynamic, a game I didn't know I was playing, of "my way or the highway". Is there something like this going on in your relationship?

No, there isn't. I didn't use my relationship with my BH to justify my A. I don't recall ever going with the "I'm unhappy at home, perhaps this will be better" philosophy. I wasn't unhappy with my BH. I was unhappy with me. My A allowed me an avenue to revel in that brokenness; in fact, our brokenness was the tie that binds when it came to my AP. I didn't have to pretend like I had my shit together (and this behavior existed in me for years before my A); I could just be broken & that was OK.

the overall mechanic of "if I don't get what I want, I get disappointed and see reasons to end it or blame him or X" without telling him? I seem to have detected just that dynamic on this thread a bit, not just in the overall discussion but even with threatening to leave SI, then not really.

That is good food for thought. I know I have a history of looking for an out when things get uncomfortable.

With SI, it's easier for me to figure out what triggered a desire to leave the group--I am actually being honest in this space. When it came out in this thread that I had no Dday, suddenly a half-dozen people fixated on that aspect. It's similar to the OP--I wasn't prepared for that. I understand it, I respect the POV, and it's not my route at the moment. The tone shift in the thread immediately got extrapolated out in my mind--I'd become "she who will not confess" and therefore any thread will become a potential space for public flogging (albeit respectful flogging) on that point. It solves nothing. And when this thread triggered a desire to hide that fact, to lie in order to stay, I couldn't have that disconnect here, too. But I can try honesty about that point & see where it gets me.

Cut & run is always my first reaction. It's a control thing, like everything where i'm concerned. But with BH, I'm not actively looking for an out. I don't try & turn every discussion into a fight.

I want to stay in my M, even when everything in me wants to blow it all to hell & go. And it's partly for reasons like this, except in my case I'm a mother:

then my youngest two have had a father who is more engaged with them

This is what I want:

As long as you are progressing, working on your demons, becoming a better person, finding authenticity, you are becoming a safer person for your BH.

And I'm determined to get there.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
william
Member
Member # 41986
Default  Posted: 11:17 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

im not trying to beat you over the head and i certainly dont want you to leave the forum.

statements such as ->

"his conservative worldview can be very much so in conflict with things that serve the greater good."

is more anecdotal evidence of what i mean. who determines the greater good? you do. no teamwork, no partnership, no cooperation. you decide. then since you have the point of view that you found the truth which serves the greater good it means that his point of view (which is different) conflicts with that greater good. in other words, his point of view is not only bad but actually harmful while yours is benighted, noble, and you get a pass from normal rules of behavior because its oh so altruistic.

can you really believe that that you serve the greater good, and the rest of the world (or whichever part you inhabit ... aka your marriage) has to submit to this or else they are bad and damaging the greater good.

thats an argument made by every dictator throughout history.


me - bh
her - lara01

from 09/11 - 05/13
2 ONS, 10 sexting partners, 1 LT EA/PA

??/06/13 DD/1 - admits to LT EA, begin false R.
01/13/14 DD/2 - LTA was PA.
01/18/14 DD/3 - sexting 5 guys.
01/19/14 DD/4 - 2 ONS with different guys


Posts: 546 | Registered: Jan 2014
splitintwo
Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 11:26 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

can you really believe that that you serve the greater good, and the rest of the world (or whichever part you inhabit ... aka your marriage) has to submit to this or else they are bad and damaging the greater good.

Point taken.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
ReunitePangea
Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 11:51 AM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

Don't leave SI. You are smart enough to weed out the non-constructive responses. There are pearls in these posts.

Great advise above.

Split - I too don't always follow the typical SI advise. I am a BS but in an open M. Trust me most BS & even many WS don't understand and it can taint opinions quickly. However, I still find excellent advise on SI even though I have taken a different route.

As far as your current problem - I found this comment interesting -

Cut & run is always my first reaction. It's a control thing, like everything where i'm concerned.

Why do you feel the need to control your H's opinion on a topic? The topic you are debating with him has many people on both sides of the issue. It is not an obvious answer and arguments can be been made on both sides that carry significant weight. A need for control may be part of the why in your A - it might be a topic to explore for you. You can certainly have the opinion that you do not want to tell you BH about your A but I hope you can at least see how you are controlling what he gets to know by doing that. Why is having control over your BH important to you?


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 485 | Registered: Nov 2012
Secrets Kept
Member
Member # 40630
Default  Posted: 2:14 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

Hi Splitintwo,

I followed some of your first posts but haven't had time to go back & read all of your others, but will do so. So please forgive me if I state something that has already been addressed or discussed.

From my profile & user name, you can see that I am one of the few here on SI who will also take the secret of my A to the grave with me. I can understand sometimes why this is necessary & that confessing isn't always right for everyone, even though I do agree it is for the best in most marriages & relationships.

BUT.....in order for that to be OK in any way shape or form whatsoever, you have to truly break all contact with any AP's & TRULY work on yourself & why you think it is/was OK to have an A in the first place. Otherwise, why bother!?!?! Just get a divorce & everyone can go about their merry lives, right.

IMHO, You can't keep in the A or in contact at all with AP & ever expect your marriage to have a fighting chance in hell of working. You won't be completely committed to your BH when you are still in any type of contact with your AP or thinking of them, so therefore, how can you truly put forth the effort on working on yourself, marriage & BH????

My A was the BIGGEST mistake of my life & I ended it on my own by just dropping all contact & luckily, he never bothered to see why.

My circumstances were a bit different as my BH & I were already a few months into a home separation & my BH feels we were separated at the time, so "doesn't want to know". So I basically got off the hook & we have never had a Dday either.

But the guilt, regret, self-hate, etc still haunts me today. My BH & I are fully back together after some major medical issues with him drew me back in & since that time, I swore to myself I would get IC, work on myself to make myself whole again & put forth everything I have to make my M work. And we are happier than ever, even though I have the "black cloud" hanging over my head now due to my "secrets kept"!!!

BUT......again, I broke all contact with my AP & haven't spoken to AP since the summer of 2008 & don't ever want to. Just the thought disgusts me tremendously!!! I cannot believe there was ever an attraction whatsoever. As they say, I definitely "affaired down" & do not know what the hell I was ever thinking to risk my whole world on that guy!!!!

SO....the point of my post is that if you want to take it to the grave with you, then put forth your best effort NOW to make your marriage the best it can be. Did you ever think perhaps it is problems inside yourself from the A that causes a lot of the problems?? Your BH may have issues but they can be worked out together ONLY if you cut ALL contact & put forth the huge amount of work & effort you owe to your BH, marriage & yourself.

Best of luck on everything!!! Hope my post helps in some small way to see there are some of us here on SI who will never tell either with the difference being we are totally out of our affairs & striving to rebuild what we destroyed even if it was never known by our betrayed spouses.


Marriage #1=BW-46 (now)
XWH-Deceased on his 36 bday
Divorced in 1996
Marriage #2= Married in 2003
H-44
2 kids together-DS14 & DD12
"All this time I was finding myself & I didn't know I was lost"

Posts: 210 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Midwest USA
Sal1995
Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

"his conservative worldview can be very much so in conflict with things that serve the greater good."

Like william this quote really jumped out at me. Replace the word "conservative" with "liberal" and that would be the way a lot of conservative people judge people who think like you.

Intolerance is intolerance. Whether you happen to agree with them or not, your husband's views (as you've described them) are hardly radical. A lot of people think like him, and reasonable people sometimes disagree.

The vibe from your posts is a familiar one I've seen before. It's almost like you've somewhat dehumanized your BH, turned him into a caricature of sorts. If so, I imagine that would make it much easier to betray him. And much easier to keep him in the dark about a sad chapter in his marital history.

There's a powerful disconnect, and I'm not saying it's all on your end, but I'd be amazed if a great part of it wasn't.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 2:44 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday)]


Me (BS)-45, WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling
PM's w/ male members only please

Posts: 1410 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
GotPlayed
Member
Member # 41294
Default  Posted: 2:44 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

No, there isn''t. I didn''t use my relationship with my BH to justify my A. I don''t recall ever going with the "I''m unhappy at home, perhaps this will be better" philosophy.

Well, keep in mind that''s what she told me while in survival mode, not necessarily what it was. A part of having an A is lying to one-self. Now she has admitted her brokenness a lot more, and admitted to many other pressures than the M (kid with A, elderly parent who is sick and lived with us, losing two parental figures within a year, CSA). Turns out now that I''m not there she''s near rock bottom because she''s realizing the M was the best part of her life. But of course me leaving triggered her own old abandonment issues, which she now has to resolve. The real question is exactly like the question to my stbx, what are you lying to yourself about the roots of your own behavior? BPD and vulnerable narcissism tend to be self-flagellating ("I''m broken so I revel in brokenness/I deserve this.." ) But you don''t see the damage you do to others (in BPD because of the overwhelming feelings of it all, on NPD because of a general lack of empathy while having a perfectly functioning theory of mind when one chooses to use it). Some food for thought.

I am actually being honest in this space

Life is infinitely better when you can be honest in all spaces.

You say you''re a mother. I''m a father (mine are 8 and 10yo). Our Ms are similar length. To me showing them an example of dignity and integrity that they will understand years from now, when they have their own relationships, was more important than saving them temporary discomfort (to the WSs this is almost never the case, and while the one traumatized the most is the BS, the ones damaged the most by an A are precisely the children, whether they find out or not - you''re not saving them discomfort, you''re merely relocating it in time). Regardless, having a plan for eventual disclosure is better than having a plan for putting out the fire once he finds out on his own.

What would happen if your kids'' spouse did this, and you had grandkids, and you found out? What would you have them do? What would happen if you were the one who had been cheated on? Things usually change rapidly when we think about others and switch roles around like that. But why should it?

You say he''s "too conservative", but from a conservative standpoint, one standard of conduct for all and adding forgiveness and repentance to the mix of truth and honesty is, in my opinion, the only way to go (btw I''m the more liberal in my couple by far, and I wasn''t the one who cheated, so it''s not a conservative/liberal worldview thing).

But conservatism can be and often is forgiving provided true remorse is there, and being family-centric, there would be a lot of pressure at keeping the family together, no matter what. Have you talked to a religious leader about this? Maybe pick some place you don''t usually attend but have heard good things about and go speak to the pastor/priest/rabbi/imam/leader there? You may learn about love, forgiveness and understanding, not just for yourself but for the M and your H in general that you can put in practice right away? And I''m not even talking about A disclosure but for how to conduct your M in general going forward, since you say you want to stay M.

Note in my case, I''m not D''ing my wife because she had an A. I''m D''ing because she is still to this day unrepentant. She stopped NC for 72 hours before going to meet him at a hotel, which I discovered as it happened. I offered to go back to MC and she asked for S on the very next session. And though she says she''s ended the A for good, she is still in electronic contact w/him. She understands all this, but it''s somehow more important than her family''s survival, and almost every interaction I have with her (over text mostly) becomes a "poor me" blame-fest on her part, with no true regard to my suffering save one single sentence over the last 3 months (which I still hope against hope she will build on). So she''s still in what we know as the W fog. My hopes for reconciliation (there''s always remarriage) one day in the future are less and less the longer she chooses to remain in that situation. So don''t discount your H''s love for you being larger than your behavior, especially if you really are done with it.

Thanks for listening. I really am hoping you two can get past this. I''m a sucker for R stories, because I didn''t have one.

[This message edited by GotPlayed at 2:52 PM, April 23rd, 2014 (Wednesday)]


Master of my Fate, Captain of my Soul.
BS 42, WW 41. 18y married
DD: 11/5/13
DS10 Autism, DD8
OM: Reformed wife-beater ex-con
D filed 1/14/14 by WW (never warn them, they'll get ahead)
Married a powder keg

Posts: 749 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: California
Sal1995
Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 2:56 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

feeling like I don't even know my BH

Not trying to pick on you or pick a fight with you, split. But the irony of your post title, considering the circumstances, is jaw-dropping. Think maybe he would say the same thing if he had all the facts? And you feel this way over a mere political disagreement...

Just food for thought.


Me (BS)-45, WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling
PM's w/ male members only please

Posts: 1410 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
splitintwo
Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 3:32 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

Well, keep in mind that's what she told me while in survival mode, not necessarily what it was. A part of having an A is lying to one-self. Now she has admitted her brokenness a lot more, and admitted to many other pressures than the M (kid with A, elderly parent who is sick and lived with us, losing two parental figures within a year, CSA).

I'm not in denial about my issues. I'm very keenly aware of much of what has happened in my world, and I know about how it's affected me along the way. My coping techniques tend to involve a great deal of detachment--almost a clinical observation of myself. I have hope this time because I am feeling my way through this process. Going back & revisiting old wounds, owning my current self, all of that.

If you want the list, you can have it, but it doesn't change anything about the fact that I had an A. I generally dislike itemizing it, because it gets into some "oh, poor me" vibe, & it's like I said--control. I don't want those things to be what define me. I want to own my behaviors as my own, even if they're vile.

Add in some FOO issues (both childhood-divorce & sick mom- & adulthood-father's suicide, mom's young death-versions of it), CSA, rape (in college--suitemate's friend entered my room & raped me when I was passed out), abortion as a teen (paired with an abusive SO), alcoholic (which I managed to discover in my 30s after a decade+ of voluntary abstinence without even the slightest clue I was an alcoholic), PPD/long-term depression & anxiety, and now my A. Shake. And viola. My life.

I'm aware of a lot of my f*ed up thinking that all of that triggers in me. For instance, I had to retrain my brain to not go straight to "He's dead" if BH was 15 min late coming home from work & didn't call. I had to teach myself logical, rational responses to real life situations because my brain was not reacting to everyday situations in logical ways.

And depression is a horribly toxic downward spiral. PPD started it (mine are 12 & 9 now), and I never shook it, never fully understood I was in that space until, finally, I read something with a "you might be depressed if" checklist & I said, "oh, shit, that's my life." Having alcoholism surface in the midst of that depression was just a recipe for everything that could possibly go wrong going wrong. But once I read that list, I sought help, and it's been a long road back out.

And see? It sounds like an attempt to justify, to excuse. It's not. It's just part of the mix that is me.

But now that I've managed to break so epically, I have hit the point where I want to fix this. For real this time, no patchwork, no compartmentalizing, no walling off of feelings. All my old version of fixing things did was delay my break. SSRIs got my brain back to a healthy space, and for the first time in over a decade, I feel like I have a shot at this.

Today's a good example. I've sat with a sick feeling most of the day, pangs of guilt. But I haven't run from it, or hidden it, or tried to erase it with a drink or a conversation with AP (yay, me, for keeping NC instead of getting the fix). I'm learning to understand my feelings, to figure out why they're surfacing, allowing them to surface, & processing those feelings as a feelings.

I do want to talk to a priest. My understanding from others who have talked to priests is that they're in the "stop the affair, recommit to your marriage, but don't tell your partner" camp. I'll find out when I take that step. I don't believe in going to confession until I know, with certainty, that I'm done with the behavior, so I haven't yet found out that info firsthand. And while I believe that I'm done with the A, I'm still proving that to myself. So, I wait. SI was my confession before the priest confession. The priest will likely be my guide re: spousal confession.

But regardless, I never want to throw BH under the bus re: my A. He had nothing to do with it. Our relationship has nothing to do with it. I chose a husband who will enable my negative behaviors. When I withdraw into myself, he will allow it, turn a blind eye, hope one day it'll get better. I dunno...I do know we have lots of times we laugh & love & talk & listen. But he's not my place for working my way out of my head. He doesn't understand. When I told him I was depressed & starting SSRIs, he was very resistant (he's anti-meds...very boot-straps oriented in his belief system about all mental health issues), but he went along with it because I explained to him that I needed it, at least for a while. Anyway, he saw that they worked, likes this version of me better, even noted I was closer to how I acted years back. So I'm getting there. Slowly. Diligently. Finding my way back to me.

Rambling again...I do that a lot.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
WalkinOnEggshelz
Member
Member # 29447
Default  Posted: 5:35 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday)


we're so far apart that actually getting to the root of our beliefs about whatever topic may truly cause me to lose respect for him or him for me.

Splint, I have to say that it sounds like you have already lost respect for husband. Case in point

He knows I'll do it anyway if she asks

I know you say you want debate and communication but this statement does not reflect that. Having an affair does not reflect that. Keeping secrets does not reflect that. You have been making unilateral decisions in your marriage. That is a position of control, not respect. You know you have control issues. And you will continue to be disappointed when your expectations are not met. And it is impossible for him to meet them when he has no idea what test he is taking. It isn't fair. And it certainly isn't respectful.


I don't necessarily think control is the problem, more self protection. You seem to be needing the control to protect. You say you won't go to AA because of the confession. What? Admitting you are an alcoholic in front of a group of people? Or confessing that rock bottom has occurred and you need help? Maybe admitting to someone that you may not be that "good" person everyone thinks you are.

You say that you aren't ready to deal with it. That you do t have the strength. I can tell you that we all have strength that we never think we have when we need it the most. Read my story. My BH has had to muster up a tremendous amount of strength. He too is an alcoholic. Took his last drink the day he found out that his best friend was sleeping with his wife. That his wife was ready to walk out the door forever. Hasn't had a drink since. And with strength and grace has guided me through a pretty successful R. It's not about strength. It's about desire. It's about choice to do what's right, healthy, and respectful of those involved.

It was about the fact that I thought I "knew" my husband & I could still be blindsided by his reaction.

Do you think it's possible to be "blindsided" again if you open up to him and discuss the state you are in? You seem so sure how he will react. I can tell you that I was sure as well. I was certain that my BH would send me packing. That's why I was ready to walk. Because I had already made the decision for him. I was sure about a lot of things. I used those certainties to justify every move. But I'm happy to say that I was wrong. And it's possible that you are too. The thing is, you have no idea until you let go of the outcome and let the chips fall where they may.

Sometimes to understand other people we need to really listen to them. It's difficult to listen if we are so busy having a conversation with ourselves about why we are right.

Honestly, the way you speak of your husband it sounds very much like you treat him like one of the children. I have said it before and I will say it again. What you have now isn't a marriage, but management.


Me: WS 42
Him: BH 43(HoldingTogether)
M: 18years, together 22
2 Daughters: 13 and 10
D Day: 7/24/2010; TT to 10/17/10
If you keep asking people to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will eventually start to doubt your benefit.

Posts: 695 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
splitintwo
Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 6:49 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

I don't necessarily think control is the problem, more self protection. You seem to be needing the control to protect.

Yes, I try to control as much as possible to protect myself.

You say you won't go to AA because of the confession. What? Admitting you are an alcoholic in front of a group of people? Or confessing that rock bottom has occurred and you need help? Maybe admitting to someone that you may not be that "good" person everyone thinks you are.

If I recall correctly, one of the 12 steps involves making amends. It just seems wrong to me to begin the process if I'm not fully open to that aspect yet.

Honestly, the way you speak of your husband it sounds very much like you treat him like one of the children. I have said it before and I will say it again. What you have now isn't a marriage, but management.

Respectfully, I can see why you would have that impression, but it's not accurate. I do know from MC that when it comes to certain topics, there are more effective ways to broach them. It really caught me off guard that I wasn't aware enough of his likely reaction to realize that this topic was one that needed to be handled with care, so to speak.

When it matters, really matters, each of us has to be careful with our phrasing so that we encourage discussion, listening, and respectful weighing of each other's opinions. We don't fight as a matter of course, and with lots of things in the day-to-day business of life, no real discussion is required. We just check in to make sure we're covered/free, whether we're planning an outing for the two of us or heading off on one of our own for the afternoon/evening or dealing with kid carpool. But if we're flippant or dismissive or hmm. telling, not discussing, when it comes to topics that matter, that's not constructive. We communicate very differently, and we know that...so we manage the conversation like the MC taught us to, not like a parent/child.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
splitintwo
Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 6:59 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

Also, to further clarify, I don't feel the pressure to rush to AA, as I can simply not drink. I do, in all likelihood, think like an alcoholic, so I'm sure I would benefit from the program, but I can actually not take a drink.

As for confessing, I will let the priest guide me through that process, as he'll likely be involved in dealing with the repercussions should he determine I need to confess to my husband, too. And if he determines I shouldn't, then he'll be able to walk me through what that looks like on my end, too.

Since I know BH is strong in his faith, it seems like the right course to let the spiritual leaders of our faith guide us through this.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
fst86411
Member
Member # 41644
Default  Posted: 9:09 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

Seems like to me that the reason you want to seek the advice of a priest is that you think he will also advise you not to tell. Which this is what you want. So again you are trying to control the out come again. I do feel however that it is a step in the right direction. Glad that you are seeking advise for this situation IRL. I just hope that you aren't seeking counsel in someone you know is against confession but rather seeking someone that is open to both views. As a BS I would want to know, to have my own choice on how my life is directed from here on out, not what my wife feels is best for me to know and not know. For the record I knew something was wrong in my marriage from the start of her affair. We started MC and she continued to lie through out that. I just kept digging till I figured out what it was. If your husband is anything like most guys he knows something was wrong during your affair. So I wouldn't be so sure that he won't figure it out or find out. The truth usually finds its way out sooner or later. Sorry for rambling and if I'm wrong about the priest thing please disregard. I think it is great that you are here and working on your issues. I wish my wife would take half the initiative that you have. Good job.


Met 1997
Married 2002
D-Day July 8, 2012

Who knows what went on?


Posts: 63 | Registered: Dec 2013
Stillstings
Member
Member # 36549
Default  Posted: 9:20 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

There is one problem with vowing to take it to the grave so to speak. You may keep it to yourself but there is no guarantee others will.

What will happen if your BH receives an anonymous email indicating something is wrong? Or if the xAP decides to come clean? There are lots of different ways these things play out and you have no control over that.

Also, to further clarify, I don't feel the pressure to rush to AA, as I can simply not drink.

Doesn't matter. As long as you're still in the mindset/behavioral patterns as you were while drinking, you won't get better. Whether it be addiction, infidelity or whatever, you can't heal until you find the root of the issue. Band aids can only work for so long.


Love yourself. You're worth it. Face your self. You need to do it.

Posts: 365 | Registered: Aug 2012
william
Member
Member # 41986
Default  Posted: 3:54 AM, April 24th (Thursday)

im glad you can recognize what i meant about feeling entitled to make the decisions that affect your whole family, about justification that your decisions are not only good but somehow noble, about how your husbands decisions are bad and somehow harmful to the good of society.

its a skewed way of seeing things. it isnt that your opinions which drive your decision making process are better or worse, its that you denigrate the opinion of others who disagree by basically over-riding them. with a spouse its that much worse because you have agreed to a partnership with your husband.

to use your example of medicinal marijuana. there are a many steps and possible compromises possible between "ill buy her pot even though you completely disagree with this" and "we watch her die in intense pain even though your dad went through the same and he could have been helped".

im not saying you are right or that he is. what i am saying is that along the way between your divergent views are many possible compromises. in a partnership you HAVE to compromise. its what you agreed to when you got married and if you want to be an honorable and good person than you need to behave in an honorable manner - which includes abiding by the agreements you have made. no agreement ever made in your life carries as much weight as agreeing to get married.

you mentioned many times that you like to debate politics online. one thing very common to debate forums is that each side reduces the other to caricatures in order to refute arguments made by "the other side". this side is naive or what they want is proven not to work while what this side wants is cold, unfeeling, manipulative, etc. the reality is that neither side has a corner on truth, neither side is above blame, both sides are equally guilty of the same things in different ways, and both sides care about the same (im a cynic). political forums encourage this caricature in debate and often the two sides in debate are telling each other things that are very cruel but that feel justified in telling because "they have the truth" and care about "the greater good". this approach results in the two sides becoming very distant from each other with a ton of knee jerk reactions, simplifications, and feeling betrayed and misunderstood by the other side. what is said on a political forum (and i know, i belong to several with 10s of 1000s "following" me) there are no long term consequences, i log out and go on about my life.

the same feelings are felt in a marriage when this is done. the difference is that there are long term consequences. both "partners" begin to feel the other is deliberately simplifying what they say and misunderstanding it. the results are a feeling of betrayal, anger, and distrust. the same thing that fuels the anger in our political system and is so toxic there is even more so in a marriage. if you log out of a marriage and decide to go on wiith your life - the results are disaster. this is how affairs happen. this is what leads to divorce. this is what leads to two people existing as roommates rather than loving spouses.

it takes a massive effort to change the dynamic of how things get discussed and compromise is found. i know. im still learning. im just trying to pass on something to you that i have learned in my own life.


me - bh
her - lara01

from 09/11 - 05/13
2 ONS, 10 sexting partners, 1 LT EA/PA

??/06/13 DD/1 - admits to LT EA, begin false R.
01/13/14 DD/2 - LTA was PA.
01/18/14 DD/3 - sexting 5 guys.
01/19/14 DD/4 - 2 ONS with different guys


Posts: 546 | Registered: Jan 2014
soulshattered
New Member
Member # 43101
Default  Posted: 5:09 AM, April 24th (Thursday)

"We have a stable life that's good for our kids though, and we do get along well most of the time, so for this phase of life, it feels like maintaining our M is the right thing to do"

I tried not to comment, but the above statement keeps ringing in my ears. I'm sorry, but MAINTAINING your marriage is the right thing to do for THIS PHASE OF LIFE is total crap. Marriages that are true and committed are not conducted in phases - a marriage is a lifetime commitment. This sounds like the old "we're staying together for the kids" crap. A BS cannot be a BS if her or she doesn't know that they're a BS. The scales are not and cannot be balanced when only one side has all of the information. Sorry moderators, but she asked for comments, well I think you're a self-serving individual at best and that this is just an unbelievable cruelty to your spouse. I'm done ...


BH - 53
DDay - 4/4/14
Together 21 years
Completely Devastated and Trying Hard

Posts: 47 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: NS Canada
splitintwo
Member
Member # 42951
Default  Posted: 5:37 AM, April 24th (Thursday)

Seems like to me that the reason you want to seek the advice of a priest is that you think he will also advise you not to tell. Which this is what you want. So again you are trying to control the out come again.

I googled before I posted that here & found random priest advice in articles & such. It actually appears there is no one pat response they give. Also, they will advise revealing the affair to the spouse, too, so it's not a given that they will go along with my preference.

It's just that when it comes down to it, the two most important things in his world are his family & his faith. I can find people who agree with me. That's easy. I could likely spin things for a priest. I don't want to do that. It's part of why I haven't gone yet. I need to believe me when I say my affair is done, and I need to follow through with whatever action he recommends. I want to be certain on the first point--without that, I may lie or manipulate. I need to approach the priest with honesty. And I need his advice. The concerns of SI will be raised re: confession with spouse. I wasn't lying when I said I hear you, & I understand your pov. It's just not something I'm going to adopt on the advice of virtual strangers. I will, however, present both sides of the tell/don't debate to a priest & allow him to make that call.


BH: 42
WW: 37
LTA ended Jan. 1, 2014; NC started in April.
Married 17 years.
No DDay; this, like all of life's decisions, is a work in progress.

My best thinking brought me to SI.


Posts: 213 | Registered: Mar 2014
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 8:22 AM, April 24th (Thursday)

soulshattered...

You have a PM.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 197971 | Registered: May 2002
bionicgal
Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 9:07 AM, April 24th (Thursday)

I am just blown away by people on these boards sometimes. What a wise post, WalkinOnEggshelz.


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is more like a mental break than a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 2004 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 8:17 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

Split,

You remind me so much of myself when I first came here. The desperate desire to control all things in my life. I still fight with that. I am getting to the root of why I need to have that control. Your need to do something even if your husband doesn't agree. I was the same way. I could be like a dog with a bone. He still says that to me by the way. These traits, these things we do, there are reasons for them. Keep looking at yourself. It sounds like you are trying to do that. This is good. It is scary at first. That disconnect. I had it too, I can still have it. There are reasons it is there. Don't be discouraged. Hugs, you can do this.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4975 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Stillnotoverit
New Member
Member # 43708
Default  Posted: 2:02 PM, June 17th (Tuesday)

Agree with hubby. Regardless of political feelings if u hav kids u never ever do anything that even "Might" hav a negative effect on them. Also saw where u mentioned maintaining your marriage. Him,, might be why affair happened and risk another. Understand not telling him, if u can handle guilt probably best why hurt him crush him. But might be time to Work on making it a love affair marriage he deserves it so do you, and yes it is possible. Even with kids and all life's grinds.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: Tennesse
plainsong
Member
Member # 37826
Default  Posted: 4:55 PM, June 17th (Tuesday)

Just a few comments about some things that resonate with me. You said you felt "blindsided" about not anticipating your husband's reaction to something. My phrase is "having the rug pulled out from under me". The sensation is hollowness in my stomach, off balance in my posture, and a weakness in my muscles. The emotions are fear and shame. My understanding of shame, based on the work of Silvan Tomkins, is that on the biological level it is triggered by one of two things: a sudden interruption of feeling close to someone, or a sudden interruption of our sense of mastery and control of some task. It sounds like both of these were triggered in your discussion with your husband. The healthy reaction to shame is to get beyond the biological trigger and find a way to reconnect with the person you want to be close to and succeed at the task that matters to you. It sounds like you did that, so congratulations.

About 12 step groups, there is a reason that making amends is Step 9, not Step 1. It is perfectly all right to start where you are. In my Overeaters Anonymous group, the only requirement for membership was the DESIRE to stop eating compulsively - nothing else. You don't have to confess, you don't have to have particular beliefs, you don't have to bring up any issues. You can say "I don't want to be here and I think it will make things worse" and no one will tell you to think differently. They will just be there and listen to whatever you want to share. You can probably tell that I found my 12 step groups very supportive, but if you try one that doesn't feel that way, it is your right to just leave. It's different from therapy and different from SI, and it didn't prevent me from having an affair, but it was valuable in my growth.

Keep going - you're headed in a direction you want to go, and you deserve to get there.


Me,WW,69;
Him,BH,70 - Happy Birthday!
Dday,12/22/2010
I use capital letters for emphasis, not yelling!

Posts: 71 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Chicago area
totalheartbreak
Member
Member # 41589
Default  Posted: 6:45 PM, June 17th (Tuesday)

BS here. I was firmly in the "If an A happens, I walk" camp and yet here I am. WW even had more than 1. I am still being TT'd and it resets our progress every time. Knowing more is coming makes me angry. WW has more FOO and personal issues than I can personally understand, and I have my own and yet here I am. I found out, WW did not confess. I wish she had. My decision to R or not hasn't been fully made, I'm very much one day at a time for now. My point is, I didn't know my response even though I was sure of what it would be. You can't assume you know your husbands either. The fact is, you have no idea how you'll react to this kind of betrayal.

There are clearly numerous items you are trying to deal with in this entire thread. I commend your strength and your bravery. I wish you well.

I question your thread post and your signature. Eg. "To the grave" (absolute) vs. "work in progress" (not absolute). This is an internal disconnect. I know that is largely expected as you work through your stuff. It will be this way for quite sometime. Your A is indeed incongruent with what you are expressing now. I applaud your progress. Owning it must be incredibly difficult and you are making the right steps.

However, you're able to open up and I believe you are being honest to a bunch of strangers on the internet. Luckily you've picked a good group. Why are you able to be so vulnerable to us but not to your BH? This could be a behavioral pattern first between you and your AP and now you and SI. You'll know you've made some serious change when you come to SI to brag about demonstrating this behavior first with your BH. It sounds like you want to, at least.

I'm still in my M, trying to show my WW true vulnerability by sticking around. I want her to display vulnerability to me by being honest with me. I suspect/assume your BH may have wanted to discuss your relatives situation further but by your own admission you 1) shut down the conversation and 2) weren't interested and 3) validated his point about the illegality of it in your state as correct. Were you vulnerable to his opinions in the debate? Did you follow up with further questions? Perhaps he had other suggestions.
Sorry if this was addressed as it was unclear to me BUT did your relative ask for your assistance with obtaining medical marijuana for pain management or was this your suggestion to help?

Slight but applicable thread jack from my IC/MC experience so far. My WW and I are both terrible communicators. Debate is an extremely advanced maneuver. We are actively still being coached a step at a time with the basics eg. I want X, I feel X, when you do X I feel Y. Sometimes it makes me feel lower than a child BUT I also feel heard. This makes it worth it. Your entire thread feels so indirect... Have you tried being direct with you BH about smaller (less heavy) issues? I need/want you to listen to X. I want advice about Y. What are your thoughts on Z. If those expectations are broken, I just need to you listen now. Etc... Those baby steps may help with the bigger issues.

Split - You're here. Please don't leave again. Keep at it. You've made a ton of progress. Everyone here wants you to have a fulfilling live and be a complete person. You need to open up to your BH if you want to have a solid M. What that means to you, is up to you to determine, one day at a time.

(Edited for clarity because I typed this initially on a tiny phone keyboard with my big clumsy fingers....)

[This message edited by totalheartbreak at 7:10 PM, June 17th (Tuesday)]


Me: BH (30s)
Wayflost: WW (30s)
"Ever notice those that advocate anything for 'happiness' are perennially unhappy?"

Posts: 149 | Registered: Dec 2013
wifehad5
Moderator
Member # 15162
Red  Posted: 8:18 PM, June 17th (Tuesday)

Please note, this thread was just bumped up after nearly two months.


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 37257 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
Topic Posts: 95