SurvivingInfidelity.com Forums
Just Found Out
User Topic: She is deleting texts
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 9:20 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

Quick backstory. 13 years ago my wife had an affair. It was ugly. We separated but finally.reconciled. Now.we have two beautiful daughters.

In general our marriage is good now...or perhaps it was. A few months ago she met a guy on a.girls ski trip. He lives close to where she grew up so they had something in common. She told me all this at.the time and I wasn't worried.

But now I'm starting to wonder. They've been texting and calling each other...and she's been deleting some of the texts. Also there have been other hints. She takes her phone w her everywhere where before she was constantly leaving g it around.

Well she's training for he spartan race and guess who she invited to come along...and stay at our house.

I'm just getting a really bad feeling about this.

I've done some spystick stuff and the deleted texts aren't too incriminating. Mostly flirting and talking about the
day.

I'm trying not to let it get me down. I've started the 180 and am working out like a fiend.

Wish me luck.


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
brkn_heartd
Member
Member # 30396
Default  Posted: 9:29 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

I am sorry you find yourself here. Your gut is talking and I am sure there is a reason. If she is deleting them, there is a reason. She knows that she has crossed a boundary.

Starting the 180 is a good start, however, have you had any dialog with her? Will she be aware of why you are doing the 180 or will she think you are checking out? I wished in hind sight I would have been more forceful in demanding NC during the EA portion of my husband's A. We might have missed the PA portion. Maybe not...but I will never know. I kept believing his lies. I didn't stand my ground.

Keep posting, there is a lot of support here.


Me-51 BS
Him 58-WS
Married 31 yrs, together 34
Affair Aug-Dec 09
official D-12/14/09
broke NC 1/31/10
second D 3/19/10

Posts: 1642 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Northwesten US
Crushed1
Member
Member # 6449
Default  Posted: 9:57 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

Hi CanITrustHer,

I'm just getting a really bad feeling about this.

There's a reason you're having bad feelings, always trust your gut! If nothing has happened yet, she's at least on a slippery slope.

I wouldn't trust her, she's deleting messages, keeping her phone tied to herself (and that's a MAJOR red flag). Those who have nothing to hide hide nothing. Always!

I'd seriously question if maybe something already happened on that ski trip. She invited this guy to stay at your house? Why??? And why invite someone who I assume is a virtual stranger to watch her run in a race? Too close for comfort and it's awfully convenient having him in YOUR house....

Sorry friend, but there are many, many red flags waving right now and they're gonna get worse. Don't believe the "we're just friends" line which you've probably already heard or will hear in the near future. A good book you may consider purchasing is "Not Just Friends" by Dr. Shirley Glass, an excellent book which explains boundaries and a host of other issues which cheater's suffer from.

Best of luck to you. You'll find wonderful support here.


~~"You can't run away from yourself"!!! Me to my H when he descended into adultery insanity.
~~Prov.15:13 "By sorrow of the heart the spirit is broken"
~~"The day breaks-your mind aches"
~STRENGTH~PEACE~HOPE~FAITH

Posts: 9745 | Registered: Feb 2005 | From: Texas
Didact
Member
Member # 42867
Default  Posted: 9:57 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

That's how I found out. Big Red Flag.


No matter how painful, life either adapts or it dies.

BH (Me) 49
WW 48
Married 1985
D-Day Mar 19, 2014
1 year passionate EA/PA, ended by me on d-day.
Attempting to R


Posts: 235 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
RidingHealingRd
Member
Member # 33867
Default  Posted: 10:02 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

Your W had an A 13 years ago and you are now seeing some red flags. I would be quite concerned and would continue to monitor her.

I too wonder why you started the 180 when it sounds as if you are in stealth mode?

I'm just getting a really bad feeling about this.

^^^This is huge. Please do not disregard this.

Are you participating in the spartan race as well? I would not let her go alone with this guy.

Remain vigilant.


ME: 54 BS
HIM: 61 WH
Married: 28 years
D'Day: 10/29/10
in R 4 years and it's working but he is putting 200% into it (as he should) to make it right again.

The truth hurts, but I have never seen it cause the pain that lies do.


Posts: 2121 | Registered: Nov 2011
norabird
Member
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 10:24 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday)

You need to set a boundary now on this guy. Trust the gut, always.

So sorry that she is placing you in this position.


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4196 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 12:04 AM, April 24th (Thursday)

Thanks for the kind words.

Let me clarify. He is running the race as well. Apparently, he's a big runner. She and my buddy and his son are running the race and they wanted a 4th.

She asked this guy... and offered to pay for his entry fee (nice touch).

As for something happening on the ski trip, I find that very unlikely. I know at least one of the women she went with and feel confident she would have told me. I guess anything is possible.

As for the 180. I guess I started it for myself so I could stay active and not fixate on this.

I really think that she thinks she's just found a new friend. I'm just worried about an impending EA affair or worse.

I'm conflicted over whether I should talk to her about my suspicions or stay in stealth mode and see what happens.

Back in the first affair, I feel that I confronted her too early without enough information which lead to dragging every nugget of data out of her. It sucked.

Something else that I'm doing differently is that I have told nobody else about my suspicions. Last time, I pulled in too many people and regretted it. Unfortunately, this means that I'm going it alone.

Still, I'm in a better place than last time. I was a wreck then. Crying, yelling, the whole deal. Hell, I once accidentally walked into traffic I was so out of it. No matter what happens, I will not fall apart again.

Thanks again for listening.


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 12:20 AM, April 24th (Thursday)

Something else kind of weird that I just thought of.

She has told me repeatedly that I have nothing to worry about with this guy. She says this out of the blue. It's kind of weird.


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 12:35 AM, April 24th (Thursday)

I'm conflicted over whether I should talk to her about my suspicions or stay in stealth mode and see what happens.

I think No on the *stealth* mode thing. Don't sit back and let this go any further than it has.
This isn't your first rodeo with this cheating crap from her.
Confront the shit out of her.
All race-related contact needs to go through her buddy or buddy's son. If she needs a reason for this, then the *I have lots going on* one works.

Honestly, it sounds as if her first affair was basically rugswept at the time. And now you are seeing why rugsweeping doesn't work. If the *cheating* behavior is not addressed and 'fixed' on the cheater's part....you just end up dealing with it again at some point down the road.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8073 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
strengthandhope
Member
Member # 37907
Default  Posted: 12:46 AM, April 24th (Thursday)

If you want to stay married and be happy, I suggest setting some boundaries. You must communicate what is comfortable for you and what is not. It is strange that you would have stealth mode be an option...unless you are looking for a way out? Confrontation is painful for you and you are remembering what hurt you before. Did you ever truly heal from her first A?

I wish you luck, but my advice is to solve this now if you really want her to be your life partner. If she modifies her behavior to make you more comfortable, that would be the best case scenario for a positive future. If she doesn't, then you know what you need to do. Why make a game of it? Just be honest. ..With her and yourself. Best of luck.


Me: BS 30s
Him: SAWH, 30s sexting, pic sharing & phone sex with men & women
2 kids, M 8 yrs
DD#1 3/08, DD#2 7/11, DD#3 10/12 DD#4 2/14
OW #1 PA from 6/13-8/13 CL Troll
OW #2 EA from 11/13-2/14 online/phone sex A
Taking R 90 days at a time.

Posts: 183 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Mid west
Credence
Member
Member # 42682
Default  Posted: 2:13 AM, April 24th (Thursday)

I'm conflicted over whether I should talk to her about my suspicions or stay in stealth mode and see what happens
You need to talk to her. She needs to know that you will not put up with her deceitful behaviour and her newfound 'friend' needs to go. You can stop this from turning into a full-blown PA (if it isn't already one) and save yourself a load of pain. Don't disclose your sources and keep watching to see if they take it underground.

She cheated on you 13 years ago and you gave her the opportunity to reconcile under the proviso that she never cheats again.

She is cheating again. It may not be physical but she is deceiving you and flirting with another man behind your back. She is deleting texts for one reason and one reason only - she doesn't want you to read them. Why doesn't she want you to read seemingly harmless texts? Guilt! If she has reason to feel guilty then she knows she's doing wrong.

She has told me repeatedly that I have nothing to worry about with this guy. She says this out of the blue. It's kind of weird.
This behaviour reminds me of my WW's behaviour with her third OM. In hindsight, she did everything she possibly could to convince me that he wasn't a threat so that she could spend time with him without alarm bells going off in my head. It worked, I stupidly believed what she told me and she was free to do whatever she was doing with him.

If you maintain stealth and this turns physical you will not be able to undo it. Take action now.


If you keep doing what you've always done, you'll keep getting what you always got

Posts: 183 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: UK
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 5:47 AM, April 24th (Thursday)

CITH,

I wish you luck, but my advice is to solve this now if you really want her to be your life partner.

This is crucial.

A key element to ANY healthy marriage, is communication---whether there has been infidelity or not. She is your wife...your partner for life...and you are supposed to be able to tell her anything---and vice versa.

What your wife is doing right now is wrong. She is not making her husband feel safe in the marriage---and for good reason, as there has been a history of poor behavior in the past. But friend, if you go into stealth mode, your wife is going to take it too far once again---if she hasn't already. That is why I believe you need to talk to her. THEN you can see what she does or doesn't do with her new information.

I know that you don't want to do the spying thing all over again. And I know how draining the hypervigilance can be. But with one deep, heartfelt conversation with her, you may be able to avoid much of this. And for the record, I am not trying to give your wife any slack---I am just trying to stress the importance of communication.

Maybe she is already a full-blown wayward again. Maybe she is on the slippery slope. But unless you let her know how you feel, she won't even evaluate her current *friendship*, because she is not looking at it through the glasses of reality that you are.

Tell her how you feel. Don't reveal any sources. Then observe her actions. A simple conversation may derail a lot of future pain.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2071 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
Jrazz
Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 6:03 AM, April 24th (Thursday)

She has told me repeatedly that I have nothing to worry about with this guy. She says this out of the blue. It's kind of weird.

Yikes. That's pretty textbook for a preemptive ass-cover. None of us can see what you see, but there are some glaring red flags here. Perhaps it's not an EA or PA, but at the very least there is something going on in her heart. No more blind trust, and do NOT let her know that she is under investigation or it will go deeper in a second.

I'm so sorry you have to be here. Protect yourself and start looking into stealthier ways of surveying her communication.

(((CanITrustHer)))

[This message edited by Jrazz at 6:06 AM, April 24th (Thursday)]


Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it. - François-Marie Arouet

Posts: 17787 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 6:07 AM, April 24th (Thursday)

Great post from jb3199; stop waiting for the affair to begin as it seems well on the way to initiation. Your wife was forgiven 13 years ago so she is already an adulterer and now you have 2 daughters you definitely won't divorce. Just a harmless, teeny-weeny affair to brighten up her life and you probably won't find out.

Confront her; stop this crap now. She doesn't have your full trust and she never will with behavior like this. Your wife seeks validation and will not see that if you get too close to the flames you will get burned. The praise and compliments come at a price and you will be the one paying for them. After she is caught cheating, she will blubber and sniff, promise you it will never happen again just like she did before.

Be harsh; no more contact with the OM, and a promise that further adultery will end the marriage.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
UpInTheAirNow
Member
Member # 37777
Default  Posted: 7:02 AM, April 24th (Thursday)

If you want to share your wife with this stranger then let him sleep over and let her continue texting him. If he is a threat to you or your marriage then have her send him a no contact letter. Have her make a choice either you or him. Pick one right now. The cell phone is a huge trigger for me. I'm angry for you. Sucks when you have to play detective.


ME 44
WW 50
DDay 6/13/12
Married 17 years, together 27 yrs.
Its a deal breaker!

Posts: 166 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: NY
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 7:18 AM, April 24th (Thursday)

Nope Not ok not in the tiniest bit.
She is deleting texts. She is hiding things.
THIS IS NEVER ACCEPTABLE behavior in a WS. Former or not. Complete and total transparency lasts forever.

I also think she is on a very slippery slope that you seem rather passive about. I would tell her that you don't trust her, you are going down the path you did before, and it scares the shit out of you. But that you will NOT be abused this time, and if she chooses to continue her behavior you are more than prepared to show her the door.

You have to take very strong stance on this.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8687 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Mac4
Member
Member # 43122
Default  Posted: 7:37 AM, April 24th (Thursday)

CanITrustHer

No you can't trust her. The fact that you are posting this here and what your gut is telling you is clear. TRUST YOUR GUT! You cannot trust her or this situation. This one hits awful close to home for me.

My backstory was I discovered my wife texting her tennis coach inappropriately, very much an EA at that point. Used spyware and confronted her and it stopped. For a while, then it resumed, she locked her phone, used the excuse that it was to keep kids from playing games on it without permission. I didn't push it, but for years I was suspicious; and I didn't trust my gut. Now I am relatively fresh off of discovering her 3 year PA with him! Set boundaries, and stop this behavior for your marriage.

"Not Just Friends" by Dr. Shirley Glass, is an excellent book as recommended. Insist that she read it as well.

Take a stand, be strong and good luck!


BS me 41
WW 42
Married 11 years
R for now I guess
DD 9 & DS 8
DDay 2 (PA) - March 3rd, 2014
DDay 1 (EA) - July 2nd, 2011

Posts: 99 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
NeverAgain2013
Member
Member # 38121
Default  Posted: 7:47 AM, April 24th (Thursday)

Wow, I hate to say it, but you're really in denial. And unfortunately, THAT'S going to get you steamrolled.

1. NO, it's NOT alright that she's texting and flirting with a new male 'friend' and is now deleting their texts because she knows damned WELL she's crossing the line with him.

2. NO, it's not ok for her to pay for this creep to run the race. Is she going to chew his damned food for him, too?

3. NO, it's not ok for him to live in your house while these two have been playing cat and mouse via text every day. What a complete and utter show of DISRESPECT to you - why would you passively allow this?

3. NO, it's not ok for you to sit quietly by doing the 180 and keeping your fingers crossed that it will all just somehow work out in the end.

Time to stand up for yourself and lose the passive outlook. Being passive gets you nowhere.

You either nip this nonsense in the bud right now, or prepare to deal with yet another affair.

Good luck to you.


Be careful - that 'knight in shining armor' may very well be nothing more than an assclown wrapped in tin foil.
ME: 50+ years old and cute as a button :-)
Ex-WBF: Just a lying, cheating, gravy-sucking pig - and I left him in 2012.

Posts: 1804 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: USA
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 8:01 AM, April 24th (Thursday)

You guys make some good points. I'll talk to her.


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
alback
New Member
Member # 41336
Default  Posted: 8:02 AM, April 24th (Thursday)

CantTrustHer, sorry you are here - and you are correct, You Can't Trust Her.

Unfortunately, you have trusted her as you had no problem with her going on a ski trip without you. She proved herself 13 years ago, and she is proving herself again now with this AP.

Other posters are correct about the red flags.

You seem to want to believe her, and appear to have taken this very lightly. This probably is not true, but instead you are hoping this will pass. It won't unless you man up and show your wife this is not acceptable in your marriage.

Yes, she told you - I don't know why. He is from the area where she lived, so what? She was willing to meet with a strange man, spend time with him at the ski resort and share herself knowing you are at home. They became cozy enough that they shared personal contact information. I emphasize, this guy is not an old friend, he is a strange man who was picking up your wife. She remains a willing participant as the affair has continued for months. Not only does she continue to keep the affair going, she hides her actions from you. She is cheating like she did 13 years ago.

She has no boundaries in her marriage to you, and it is about to get ugly again if you do not take some of the excellent advise given here. This is not flirting, she is paying his way to be with him.

As to the spartan run... you are working out. The fourth runner should be you, not him. He didn't plan the run until your wife invited him, and to your home without discussing it first?

Your wife needs to be 100% transparent with you. You need to know everything that has transpired - I suspect they were intimate prior to her arrival home.

Is this guy married, if so be sure to let his wife know.

You must protect yourself, your daughters from this potential ugly mess. Your wife is not what she says, she is what she has done. Act now.

Good luck,


Posts: 32 | Registered: Nov 2013
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 8:13 AM, April 24th (Thursday)

She has told me repeatedly that I have nothing to worry about with this guy. She says this out of the blue. It's kind of weird.
I love Jrazz reply, preemptive ass cover. I was thinking more of a guilty conscience talking.

You have been through this before. You are right in not bringing a lot of people in. You are right that last time you probably did confront too soon and she tried to lie out of everything.

It will be odd that this guy is staying at your house. I would think if anything was going on at this time, the guy would not be staying at your house, but who knows. Usually the WW like to keep the affair partner away from their husbands.

But you don't like this and you have ever right to not like this. Do you want to stop this now or find complete evidence before you confront her.

Is there any way at all you can read the deleted texts. Read her email, read something to get enough solid to confront her.

I can see you confronted her now and she will be all over you, blaming you for being too suspicious to demanding etc. It will be ALL your fault.


Posts: 4101 | Registered: Jun 2002
slater13
Member
Member # 39008
Default  Posted: 8:24 AM, April 24th (Thursday)

Talking to her will go yet nowhere except she will take it underground. If had to bet, she has probably already slept with him on the ski trip.

If it were me, I would plant a VAR and find a backup file from her phone to get those texts. You need to gather evidence.

It may help, rethinking my first statement here, for you to let her know that there is no negotiation...this is not acceptable to you, particularly in light of your history.

Sux, man- I really feel for you.


The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character

Posts: 160 | Registered: Apr 2013
Adeahan
Member
Member # 43005
Default  Posted: 8:24 AM, April 24th (Thursday)

one thing i have learned from all of this crazyness is always always always trust your gut, talk to her now before it gets too out of hand, i am not saying i know your situation but the direction it looks like it is heading you need to squash it and deal with it now, strength brother :)


Me 33, H 31,D-Day 03/30/14, Together 12 years, married 2, 3 kids, 3 dogs, Working on R
"nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain’t about how hard you hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward"

Posts: 138 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Ontario, Canada
EvenKeel
Member
Member # 24210
Default  Posted: 8:53 AM, April 24th (Thursday)

As for something happening on the ski trip, I find that very unlikely. I know at least one of the women she went with and feel confident she would have told me. I guess anything is possible.

Yeah - don't assume anything. If you are confident that woman would tell you if anything was going on during the trip...then your W would know that and hide it from her as well.

No matter how long ago her A was, she just gives up certain things in life to make sure you are secure in your R and have no doubts. She isn't/hasn't done this for you. She should never place herself in a position that leaves you feeling those gut-screams regardless if this new friend is innocent or not.

She should be over-the-top sensitive of your feelings before inviting this stranger (to you) into their race and into your house.


Eyes are useless if the mind is blind.


Posts: 2173 | Registered: May 2009 | From: Pa
SeanFLA
Member
Member # 32380
Default  Posted: 9:16 AM, April 24th (Thursday)

Wow...just wow.

I will try to be easy here, but I know what texting can do because my exWW did all this too. And she got "love bomb" running texts from her AP. And she would reply "how inspirational" he was with regards to it. I discovered all this on Dday.

But brother, your head is in the sand on this already I have to say. This is soooo far out there from a boundary standpoint you have no idea because she had a prior affair. Your use of 180 practices is more about rugsweeping to me on your part than anything else. Trying not to fixate on this is not the 180, it's rugsweeping over the fact that she could be emotionally involved again. And I use "could" very loosely here. I will go out on a limb and say she is already involved emotionally with him. Yeah us BS's are usually the last ones to know right?

And what's with all this "running" crap I see on this board with regards to affairs all the time? Seems like I see more affairs develop over "running" people and their running training than I care to read. If it were me I would instruct her she has one choice right now. Quit whatever running relationship she has with this guy and run on the back roads ALONE if she wants to train. If she refuses or balks then your answer is clear...file for divorce. Re-read your onscreen name again. She doesn't respect you right now with regards to boundaries I'm telling you. WS's that act like this infuriate me.

[This message edited by SeanFLA at 10:51 AM, April 24th (Thursday)]


BS(me) 48
WW 46
1 son 14 yrs old
Married 18 yrs, together 21 yrs

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have." ~ Bob Marley


Posts: 1470 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: Zombie Land
iknowiwillbeok
New Member
Member # 43219
Default  Posted: 10:28 AM, April 24th (Thursday)

New here - what is a spystick?

Posts: 2 | Registered: Apr 2014
99lawdog99
Member
Member # 42615
Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, April 24th (Thursday)

Stop it right now. My WW started the same way. First texts, then calls, then meetings and then sex. Always was told he was just a friend. She even told me after that I should not have allowed her to be in contact with him as I did.


Me 54
WW 45
Married 25 years, together 27 WW's first and only til A
In R
"Sometimes we have to be knocked down to our lowest point so that we can reach our highest Level"

Posts: 136 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: pa
Crushed1
Member
Member # 6449
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, April 24th (Thursday)

CITH, we BS's often say there must be a "cheater's handbook" out there and they're all reading from the same script because their actions and words are nearly identical. "We're just friends, you have nothing to worry about" is a classic line straight out of that 'book'.

Did she ask YOU, her HUSBAND, if she could invite her new male 'friend' to spend the night at YOUR house? I'd be livid! That way, she's able to get even CLOSER to him, right under your nose...

We're all seeing red flags waving around you. And your intuition is telling you something isn't right. You can always trust your intuition.

You cannot trust that any of her female friends would tell you if they knew something was going on. Many cheaters have 'friends' who will keep their secrets and actively encourage them to cheat! My H had some male friends who told him he was "entitled" to commit adultery if he wanted to! Unfortunately he was encouraged by them and took their dreadful advice.


~~"You can't run away from yourself"!!! Me to my H when he descended into adultery insanity.
~~Prov.15:13 "By sorrow of the heart the spirit is broken"
~~"The day breaks-your mind aches"
~STRENGTH~PEACE~HOPE~FAITH

Posts: 9745 | Registered: Feb 2005 | From: Texas
foundoutlater
Member
Member # 32900
Default  Posted: 11:17 AM, April 24th (Thursday)

She even told me after that I should not have allowed her to be in contact with him as I did.

I hope you can see the bull crap in that line. You should have had a relationship where you were not in charge of her fidelity (or her happiness for that matter).


Your beliefs don’t make you a better person, your behavior does.

Posts: 1131 | Registered: Jul 2011
Afraid2LoveAgain
Member
Member # 11185
Default  Posted: 12:15 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

Seriously, she invited a strange man to sleep in a home where two young daughters live?

Is she batshit crazy!


BW -- 57
Divorced 2001
Re-married 2014--on what would have been our 35th anniversary

Posts: 426 | Registered: Jul 2006 | From: NC
Afraid2LoveAgain
Member
Member # 11185
Default  Posted: 12:15 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

Duplicate.

[This message edited by Afraid2LoveAgain at 12:35 PM, April 24th (Thursday)]


BW -- 57
Divorced 2001
Re-married 2014--on what would have been our 35th anniversary

Posts: 426 | Registered: Jul 2006 | From: NC
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 12:42 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

Quick backstory. 13 years ago my wife had an affair. It was ugly. We separated but finally.reconciled. Now.we have two beautiful daughters.

Was there ever remorse from her on this initial affair? If not, you are seeing the results of this in her latest new "friendship". I wouldn't be surprised if the reason you both initially reconciled was because the OM threw her under the bus and you were plan B. From what you describe, she is pushing the boundaries here, convincing herself that she can control this new friendly relationship AND including you in on it this time around. Sounds like she read the chapter on "How to Have Your Cake and Eat it too! Step 1 - Tricking your spouse to hoist you on the fence...and blame him/her!"

I know a lot of our advice is easier said than done because we are not in your exact situation, but the "script" we speak of is very common. Regardless, you need to put your foot down on this matter now DESPITE her gaslighting attempts to tell you "Nothing is going on! You're just being paranoid! He's just a friend! Why won't you let me have any friends!" yada, yada, yada...all to get YOU to feel guilty and defensive and avoid the conversation. She is doing the most ultimate disrespectful thing by inviting this stranger to your house to stay. She's trying him on in your house to see how your "substitue" will look in the house and hanging out with your daughters, while having the convenience of you being nearby to "comparison shop".

Like Crushed1 suggested, get her the book "Not Just Friends" by Dr. Shirley Glass. I suggest you sit her ass down at the table, tell her that "friend" is not invited in your home or in her running group. Then tell her if she wants to know why, give her that book. Tell her to read it. If she refuses, then tell her you have no choice but to make some very tough decisions to protect yourself and your daughters. Make it clear to her that having a friendship with this stranger and inviting him to the house is UNACCEPTABLE and that there will be consequences if she refuses to comply. Don't say anything about divorce, just mention consequences.

We can all see from your descriptions that she's just starting to spread the affair mayo on the 2nd shit sandwhich she is currently making for you. Heed our warnings.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 553 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
Tren0R201
Member
Member # 39633
Default  Posted: 12:55 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

I'll chime in.

He maybe a friend, or maybe in her mind she's telling herself that rationalize what's happening.

Inviting the guy to your house, again in her mind she's saying "Look, he's just a good pal, see I'm even inviting him to the house so you can see for yourself, is that the behavior of someone who's cheating?"

There's just one thing..nil, zero, zilch consideration about your feelings in this, and that to me speaks volumes.

She's started a friendship with a guy..that's fine but the texting and deleting of texts are massive red flags..as is her paying for his fee in the race. I mean they're long distance pals right? Only met once and she's already paying out of her own pocket and offering him accommodation?

Again, did she ask you if this guy could stay over? More importantly you're obviously visibly uncomfortable with this friendship but she still continues to contact him without regard for your feelings.

She's gotten comfortable, so comfortable your feelings don't matter and now you're almost back to square one, afraid to confront in case you drive whatever is going on underground.

Trust your gut. Wish you the best


Posts: 188 | Registered: Jun 2013
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 1:35 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

She is having an EA. She is flirting in the text messages. That is overstepping the M boundaries. There is no need for a woman that has had an A before to have a male friend that is that close. That isn't okay. None of what she is doing is okay. Draw the line. If she is at the stage where she wants to invite this man into her home...then she is at the stage where there will be physical intimacy. The passion is there and waiting.

[This message edited by hopefulmother at 1:38 PM, April 24th (Thursday)]


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 946 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 1:43 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

Stop. Do not pass go. See a lawyer, know your rights. Separate your finances as best you can. Implement the 180.

My friend, I am so sorry. She is again having an affair. She puts another mans wants/desires over yours?

Wow, she is completely clueless.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2977 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
william
Member
Member # 41986
Default  Posted: 1:51 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

my wife had no problems bringing her affair guys around me and into our house. she always had excuses or justifications that i tended to accept because i loved her and trusted her.

id guess she is bringing him into the house because it would be more convenient for her to see him there than it would be to go see him in a hotel. in your house she can say "hey, we are all hanging out together" which sounds nicer than "well, im on my way to see him at his hotel" - but quite possibly the effect is the same.

the "nothing to worry about this guy" is a red flag. deleting texts is a red flag.
inviting him into the house without asking is a red flag.
paying his entry fee is a red flag.

you have two real options
1: tell her "hell no"
2: let him come and use a VAR or something else to "catch them"

the poop will hit the fan from her if you use 1. she will claim you are paranoid, that they had plans you upset, that you are crazy, and that nothing was going on. you wont ever really know.

if you let him come, dont be surprised if your VAR or whatever catches them having sex or in intimate talks. obviously that would suck.

the options she has presented you with arent good ones.


me - bh
her - lara01

from 09/11 - 05/13
2 ONS, 10 sexting partners, 1 LT EA/PA

??/06/13 DD/1 - admits to LT EA, begin false R.
01/13/14 DD/2 - LTA was PA.
01/18/14 DD/3 - sexting 5 guys.
01/19/14 DD/4 - 2 ONS with different guys


Posts: 549 | Registered: Jan 2014
sadcountryboy
Member
Member # 43058
Default  Posted: 3:53 PM, April 30th (Wednesday)

deleting texts and guarding the phone are bad bad signs. If she hasn't yet, she is thinking about it.


Me: BH 34
Her: WW 30
Lived together 5-1/2 years
Married almost 2 years
D-Day 3/17/14
Affair for 8 months with a married man at her job
I don't even know who she is. Maybe never did.
Separated 3/21/14
headed to D

Posts: 67 | Registered: Apr 2014
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 4:35 PM, May 12th (Monday)

Update.

So we talked about this friend and the texts. She was very upfront answering all my questions. Bottom line they did some mild sexting which she deleted. And in early April she says she decided that it was inappropriate and then changed the communications to talk of training and the race.

There were some small lies I could tell but I let them slide. perhaps that was a mistake.

We also were working on our communication or at least I was.

Then last Friday was his birthday. I one it was his birthday but didnt let on.


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 4:44 PM, May 12th (Monday)

Sorry...continued.

I did t let on that I knew of his birthday

Sorry. Will post more late.


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
Chicky
Member
Member # 18622
Default  Posted: 4:52 PM, May 12th (Monday)

There were some small lies I could tell but I let them slide. perhaps that was a mistake.

Absolutely, totally, completely. I am actually sad for you because she is playing you like a piano and you don't realize it. I know how heady and drunk love can make a person but in the case of your wife - you need to SOBER UP!!

ETA: "mild sexting"? What the heck is that??? Then SHE decided it was inappropriate? Wonder why she didn't realize that BEFORE she did it?

[This message edited by Chicky at 4:54 PM, May 12th (Monday)]


There's a difference between giving up and knowing when you've had enough.

Posts: 556 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: Somewhere Over The Rainbow
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 4:59 PM, May 12th (Monday)

From what I've read here , sexting qualifies as an EA. you might be well served by insisting on transparency and that he find a hotel room for his visit for himself. Did she realize these text were inappropriate, or clues left behind?


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
betrayedpregnant
Member
Member # 43304
Default  Posted: 5:03 PM, May 12th (Monday)

deleting texts? mild sexting? can you trust her? No way! If you hadn't intervened so early, she would have gladly moved to physical affair!

Posts: 279 | Registered: May 2014 | From: Hawaii
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 5:11 PM, May 12th (Monday)

There were some small lies I could tell but I let them slide
Don't let anything slide. Something is wrong here, she never learned about boundaries 13 years ago and here you are again.

I would be very suspicious if I were you at this point. You say she was very upfront with you. Which I find rather odd since a couple of weeks ago she was lying to you and deleting texts and taking her phone with her everywhere.

If I were you, I would do some digging. I would pay close attention and I would tell her that you have every right to have her passwords and to have access to her phone.

Have there been any times that she is late from work with unreal reasons or goes shopping all day and buys nothing.

If she had not had an A 13 years ago, I might say, okay a mistake here. But, she did not learn anything from what happened 13 years ago, and she needs to completely understand today why she feels it is okay to talk sexually with other guys.

How far would it have gone.

It just makes me suspicious that after lying, denying and taking her phone everywhere, suddenly today she is upfront.

I have seen this on here before. Called damage control. Usually when someone is about to find out something else. Just keep paying close attention.


Posts: 4101 | Registered: Jun 2002
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 5:12 PM, May 12th (Monday)

Sorry to be breaking this up. Phone issue + running kids around.

As she was getting ready last friday morning (his birthday) I noticed red panties that I didn't recognize (I've since verified they were an old pair, not a gift). I asked her and she played it off. It struck me as odd.

I was able to check her texts (which she has since deleted) Saturday and yes, she wore red panties for him. As a reminder, she did jack shit for me on my birthday a few months ago (I finally got a cake and some presents 6 weeks later).

As more background, I had been looking at the earlier discovery as a wakeup call and had been working on communicating, making love more, etc. And from that, I allowed him to still come down this coming weekend for the race. She's even picking him up at the airport alone (I have kid duties). Call me a chump.

When I read about the panties, I realized that I don't want to be married to this woman anymore. Even if nothing happens when he is in town, how can I ever trust her again?

I've hired a PI to follow her Friday. It's expensive and I'm conflicted about if I want him to catch something.

So now, I have to act normal when all I want to do is scream. I can't eat. I can't sleep. I can barely function. This sucks.

I hate her. I love her. God, please give me strength.

I've been reading the Just Friends book, but it's so painful that it's going slow.

6 days of faking it to go...


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, May 14th (Wednesday)

So bit of an update.

I texted her the other day saying that I was uneasy about this weekend.

Me: There's nothing extra going on with him, right? Sorry, I feel I need to ask again.

Her: No, just friends baby. I want to be with you forever.

Me: Good. So no sexting, inappropriate conversations, other gifts? Any deleting stuff? Sorry again to ask.

Her: Stop worrying. Nothing inappropriate that I wouldn't say to our godson.

Our godson is 16 and my wife says some inappropriate things to him. Mostly joking about sex or "getting some".

Anyway, it was of course all lies. I just wanted to give her the chance to pull back from the brink. She has been doing everything I asked about. I have a recorded conversation where she tells him about a dream of finding him naked and them kissing and later she says that he, "owes her a fantasy."

Yea, I so don't want to be married to this woman anymore. I don't even know this person she's become.

Oh, the worst part of the recording is how happy and giggly she is when they're talking. Everything he says is apparently hilarious. Yea, I know what that means.

5 days of faking it to go. This week sucks.

[This message edited by CanITrustHer at 10:23 AM, May 14th (Wednesday)]


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
gutfeeling
Member
Member # 41652
Default  Posted: 10:48 AM, May 14th (Wednesday)

Just wanted to let you know we're here to support you. Keep posting here if you are going crazy waiting for Friday!

Hang in there!


Posts: 155 | Registered: Dec 2013
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 11:02 AM, May 14th (Wednesday)

Thanks. And how screwed up is this? I feel bad waiting and essentially lying to everyone about being fine. But I just know that if I confront her now, she'll just explain away whatever I reveal with all the "just friends" BS.

And - how pathetic is this - I still really love her and I don't want to ruin this race for her. It, among other things, has become a bit of a fixation for her.


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, May 14th (Wednesday)

And - how pathetic is this - I still really love her and I don't want to ruin this race for her

It's not pathetic. You do love her. And because of it you want to see her succeed.

Unfortunately it takes our hearts a while to catch up with our brains. We know logically that we need to stop, but emotionally we can't. At least not immediately.

You need to focus on you. Work on doing some nice things for yourself. What do you want that you haven't been afforded the time to accomplish because of her NEED to have time to run, and have an A? Start figuring out how you can do it.

You deserve more. Time to get it.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8687 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Swims
Member
Member # 30992
Default  Posted: 11:09 AM, May 14th (Wednesday)

CanItrusther, I'm so sorry you are having to endure this for the next few days. Please make sure that you continue to take care of yourself, try and eat, drink water. And please pay attention while driving! My IC told me that accidents are very common for the newly betrayed. If you haven't already done this, please try and see a lawyer in the next couple of days. You have to be prepared to end your marriage if she wants another person in it. Hugs to you, and be good to yourself!

Posts: 130 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: East Coast
StillStanding1
Member
Member # 40144
Default  Posted: 11:09 AM, May 14th (Wednesday)

Just wanted to chime in and say I'm so sorry you find yourself in this situation. Waiting is going to be grueling. Wishing you strength. We will be here to support you. I know it's going to be awful. Be strong. You are doing great, keeping your head above water. Hang in there!


Me: 40s BS, Him: 40s WH
M 21 yrs - 3 teens
LTA = 2+ yrs, Dday = 2/10/13, he moved out, he officially moved back in 1/25/14 and our work continues...

Posts: 710 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: MidWest
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, May 14th (Wednesday)

Thanks. Do i really need to speak to a lawyer before confronting her? I honestly don't think there's time or a need.


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
Williesmom
Member
Member # 22870
Default  Posted: 11:12 AM, May 14th (Wednesday)

((CITH))

Hang in there. You'll feel better once you know for sure.

Hold on - shit's gonna get real when it is confirmed.


You can stuff your sorries in a sack, mister. -George Costanza
There is a special place in hell for women who don't help other women. - Madeleine Albright

Posts: 7761 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Western PA
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:13 AM, May 14th (Wednesday)

YES!!!!! Have papers ready for her signature. She is playing a game with you. Let her know in no uncertain terms that you're not playing.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2977 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
needfriendshere
Member
Member # 43350
Default  Posted: 11:19 AM, May 14th (Wednesday)

I am so sorry this is happening to you. I agree with the people here - YOU NEED TO STOP THIS NOW! My H began his relationship with his AP by sending "innocent" texts. Then the texts became steamier and steamier. By the time they were able to meet face-to-face again (3 months later), they were so hot for each other that their relationship instantly exploded into a PA. Read "Not Just Friends". It is the best book out there on this topic. You can order it on Kindle for an easy read.

If she is deleting texts, they have crossed a line. And emotional A's are usually how the PA's begin.

Please DO NOT let him come to your home and insist that your W stop texting him. I don't care if she has already paid for his entry into the race. BFD. Stop it now - for you and for your 2 DD's. Good luck, my friend!!


Me: early 50's
WH: early 50's
Married: 23 years
DS: 21 years old
Other DS: 18 years old
D-day: 2/14/2014
H's AP lasted 6 years, but we are both trying hard to R.

Posts: 423 | Registered: May 2014
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 1:22 PM, May 14th (Wednesday)

I would lay it out to her that he is not welcome in your home. Tell her you changed your mind. You don't own this stranger a place to stay in YOUR home. His visit was not discussed with you before hand and she did not seek your approval. I know you think this may push her to him, but if she is that determined to hook up with this guy she'll do it right after picking him up at the airport. Don't let them defile your home with their behavior. Make your stand now.

You already know she's lying. You have your proof. You KNOW the PA is going to happen. She is laying out the opportunity for him this weekend.

If you later decide to D her your are going to be in the house where the dirty deed happened, and the worst part is that YOU let it happen in your very own home. That is going to be such a huge trigger for you!

Tell her if he sets one foot in your house, thing are going to really change in this marriage. Don't specify what, just be stern. In the meantime, call some lawyers now to get armed with knowledge about you're rights. Be prepared for the worst.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 553 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, May 14th (Wednesday)

I am friendly with women in the neighborhood and at work. We don't share texts, and quite frankly, I have never known or even asked about the color of the panties they were wearing.

Have you seen a lawyer even if just to know your rights and responsibilities? Most will consult for free or a minimal charge. I strongly suggest arranging such now, not later.



Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
Swims
Member
Member # 30992
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, May 14th (Wednesday)

Please see a lawyer!! You will gain knowledge and that equals empowerment. If, then, when you confront and she refuses to give up OM, you can say "I'm sorry you don't want to stay in this marriage and choose OM. I am not willing to have three people in my marriage. I have met with my attorney, Mr. Hungry Shark, and he will be drawing up D papers as soon as possible". I'm so sorry that you are going through this.

Posts: 130 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: East Coast
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 3:44 PM, May 14th (Wednesday)

It's expensive and I'm conflicted about if I want him to catch something.
That is the hell of it isnt it. You don't want there to be anything for him to catch, yet you want him to catch something because you really do know something is going on and just need it confirmed.

That is the hell of being lied to when we know we are being lied to.

I don't understand the red panties, so if she wore them for him, than obviously they had sex. You read about her wearing them in a text...right, she did not mention anything like that?

Also, is this guy staying at her house?

If so, I dont know how I could even stomach that. Well I couldn't and wouldn't, not with the things you already know.

Yes you should see a lawyer. Especially since you have kids. You just never know how these things are going to end up.

Stay strong and try to be patient, Friday will be here before you know it and then you can take control.


Posts: 4101 | Registered: Jun 2002
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 3:53 PM, May 14th (Wednesday)

YES!!! to the lawyer...it will scare her.

You have been on here for sometime, so you know that you can't love her out of this. There is also at this point no way she will just stop by giving her chances to get out. At this point she believes she has you in her back pocket. At most, you aren't even a factor right now. Compartmentalizing at its best.

By the way...the joking with the "God Son" just plain sick and way inappropriate. So, if she treats the OM the same way...same goes there.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 946 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
Guinness23
Member
Member # 42852
Default  Posted: 3:56 PM, May 14th (Wednesday)

I'm trying not to let it get me down. I've started the 180 and am working out like a fiend.

Wish me luck.


I haven't read all the responses here but I just wanted to say I DO wish you luck in your situation. I will try to read them later...


Me 47
ExH 43
Divorced 2010

47 is the new year of treating myself better than I have in 6 years.

What ever doesn't kill me makes me stronger so long as I remember that

My favorite drink is no longer Guinness but water. Call me Dasani23


Posts: 592 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: Indiana
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 4:12 AM, May 15th (Thursday)

I don't understand this strategy. If she cheats, which you don't want, what will you do?

Why don't you confront her with her lies and tell her she can't race and it's her fault for lying to you?

Proof of lying is enough. You don't have to have a picture of her cheating. By then the deed is done.

Do you want to save your marriage before this happens?

Or... are you waiting for it to happen, show her proof and say "so there!"

No offense friend, but you don't seem like the kind of guy that will immediately file if she cheats. Maybe I'm wrong. But if I'm right, stop this before you endure more pain.

best of luck.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 5:51 AM, May 15th (Thursday)

Craig2001 posted this:

That is the hell of it isnt it. You don't want there to be anything for him to catch, yet you want him to catch something because you really do know something is going on and just need it confirmed.
That is the hell of being lied to when we know we are being lied to.

That is so true.

Mike7 stated that he doesn't believe that you will immediately file if more is discovered. I believe the same. I believe that even though you state that you do not want to be married to this woman anymore, that this is being said out of hurt and fear. And that is okay....we are supposed to love our spouses, and want to be with them. SO if your heart and mind are bouncing around like pinballs, it is understood.

There is a very good chance that a physical affair has already happened. If not, it is on the very near horizon. Be VERY honest with yourself---what do you think you will do if the PI gives you proof of a physical affair?

If your answer is anything but an immediate "I'm done---this was an absolute dealbreaker", then you have to take steps right now. You can cancel the PI if you want. But you will have to confront your wife before you allow her to continue further. You will have to lay out exactly what you know, and what you will not tolerate. And yes---bring up the affair from the past---to show the similarities. Remind her that she forever forfeited certain "rights" and "privacies" after you reconciled. And what is key in trying to drive home in that messed up head of hers, is that she should have known better that to let her boundaries wander. And the final point to drive home is that now that you have experienced infidelity in the past, there is NO WAY that you will go through it again with the naivety that you did years ago.

Then, you go into the same steps that virtually all the members here had to do to recover---we gain back our strength. We get ourselves out of infidelity...all the while, watching our wayward spouses' ACTIONS, to see if they are actually going to invest themselves in the marriage again...or not.

CITH, there is no easy way out at this point. Boundaries have been crossed. You are aware of your situation. Your heart and mind are all over the place. Whether a second D-day is a month, a year, or decades later, it still has to be dealt with....no matter how much you hate to do so.

Again...and I ask this with all seriousness...if you were to discover from the PI that this affair went physical---is it truly an immediate dealbreaker?

If so, then all you have to do is wait, and contact a lawyer. But if not, you need to stop this affair in its tracks.

I am sorry that you have to go through this yet again.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2071 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 8:26 AM, May 15th (Thursday)

I know you guys are asking valid questions bit I'm feeling a little attacked. Maybe I'm still just angry because just this morning my wife yelled at me in front of our kids because I had to audacity to ask for clarification on kid pickup arrangements.

Just to clarify he lives across the country and from the tone of their communications I believe that it is only emotional at this point.

To answer the $64 question, will I leave her if the PI finds something? Yes. Without a doubt.

If Friday truly is friends having dinner and nothing more then we might have a chance if she sees the error of her ways.

So I guess it's a bit of a litmus test to see if it's worth trying to save the marriage.

[This message edited by CanITrustHer at 8:27 AM, May 15th (Thursday)]


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 8:37 AM, May 15th (Thursday)

And I want to thank you guys and this forum. I have nobody else to talk to and I feel like I'm drowning.

Shit, I've even started praying again. I haven't prayed since my mom died. I don't even believe in God. I'm such a hypocrite with that.

This hurts so much. I never thought that I would be hurt so badly again.


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
99lawdog99
Member
Member # 42615
Default  Posted: 8:39 AM, May 15th (Thursday)

CanItrusther,

your situation is just like mine. At first she told me everything, he was just a friend, it was just texting. Then it went to talking then it went to meeting , then sex. All the time she was telling me I was nuts and get mad at me for saying she was doing something. For 4 months, I could do nothing right. She was a great actress. Finally it was so obvious, everything hit the fan. This is not good. Be careful. Texting and talking with others guys can not lead to anything good. I've been there.


Me 54
WW 45
Married 25 years, together 27 WW's first and only til A
In R
"Sometimes we have to be knocked down to our lowest point so that we can reach our highest Level"

Posts: 136 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: pa
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, May 15th (Thursday)

If you know you would walk then I would urge you to see an Attorney ASAP.

You HAVE to protect your money, your home, and your kids. There are ways to do this prior to filing, so that when you do file it will go as smoothly as possible.

She has already crossed a line. This we all know. She is minimizing it, the anger this morning is more of the whole rewriting, justification of wayward behavior thing. My H was a BASTARD to live with when he was having his A. It's how I knew something was going on.

I would clean, and he would complain that floor wasn't vacuumed well enough. I would cook and he would complain that it wasn't healthy enough. I would make the kids behave, and he would say I wasn't tough enough. IT was freaking awful, and it destroyed my self esteem.

Don't allow her to treat you like that, the next time an unjustified attack happens, you say stop, go to our room, and you close the door, and you calmly tell her you will not be treated like hired help, or a bad child. This really knocks em off their feet. It shows strength, it shows that you will tolerate nothing less than the love and respect you deserve.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8687 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, May 15th (Thursday)

To answer the $64 question, will I leave her if the PI finds something? Yes. Without a doubt.
In reality, you wont know that until it happens.

One thing about being a BS, the situation is completely fluid because our emotions are constantly changing from anger to sadness to depression back to anger and even forgiveness.

So you wont know until you the time comes what you will really do.

You can make yourself a hard line in the sand in your head and follow that, but usually thoughts and plans change as the situation changes and becomes more clear.

Stay strong and patient. You are in control, even though it sure as hell doesn't feel like it at this time.


Posts: 4101 | Registered: Jun 2002
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 9:15 AM, May 15th (Thursday)

you're definitely not under attack.

I was just curious why you would let a WW proceed with her plans?

It appears to me you're not communicating. If you know she's lying, why don't you confront her?

I guess if you need proof that's she's cheating and then you will divorce her, fine.

But why wouldn't you try to stop it? Have you given up on her? Have you already decided you want to divorce her? If you have, then just do so.

Believe it or not, I'm trying to help you. I'm trying to save you pain. From what I've read, I agree with you that it's very possible she's going to have sex with him.

I can never really understand why a BS decides to let their WS go on and cheat. But I realize you have to do what's right for you.

good luck

[This message edited by mike7 at 9:16 AM, May 15th (Thursday)]


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
JustWant2BHappy
New Member
Member # 43351
Default  Posted: 10:13 AM, May 15th (Thursday)

Mike7: I'm thinking that he feels if he does stop her..this time..will there be a next time.

Prayers that you are wrong and she goes to dinner with friends. although if that's the case you need help working on trusting her. Discuss with her that you are not trusting her and why and maybe MC?


Posts: 39 | Registered: May 2014
hurtininHouston
Member
Member # 39250
Default  Posted: 11:05 AM, May 15th (Thursday)

Don't wait. It will be too late then. Stop it now. Show her the evidence. Fight it now before hand. If I could have. I would have. If she puts up resistance, or fights it, then you know. she chooses him over you.
Don't wait!!!!!!

Posts: 60 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Houston
KatieG
Member
Member # 41222
Default  Posted: 11:17 AM, May 15th (Thursday)

Its so reminding me of that movie with Tom Cruise where he catches crimes before they happen. Minority Report. The opening scene is even a guy who is going to kill his wife or OM because he finds them cheating. The BS is the one that gets arrested because of his intent to murder.

You know what's going to happen and so you have a chance to stop it. You know her intent.

I would have definitely stopped it from happening if I could have. I would still deal with the intent but I'd rather that than the actual events that did happen.


DD#1 - 6th Oct 13 - TT
DD#2 - 9th Nov 13 - Full disclosure
DD#3 - 12th May 14 - FOG lifted and in R
7 week A, 2 weeks together, rest phone and email - PA and EA

Posts: 483 | Registered: Nov 2013
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, May 15th (Thursday)

Can me a fool if you wish.

I need to know if this marriage is worth trying to save. After too long of guesses, suppositions, and meager proof. I need something concrete.

Maybe coming here has been a mistake...


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
gutfeeling
Member
Member # 41652
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, May 15th (Thursday)

I understand how you feel!

It's not a mistake.

I would absolutely want to find out what she would do of her own volition - otherwise you never KNOW.

I think people are trying to save you the pain that they went through when their WS boinked someone else.

I personally don't think the pain is from the sex act itself - but from the betrayal. Your WW has already betrayed you. You want to see how far gone she is.

I get it.

No one here will judge you whatever choice you make.


Posts: 155 | Registered: Dec 2013
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, May 15th (Thursday)

I need to know if this marriage is worth trying to save.
Actually, your wife's actions will let you know the answer to that question.

When you say concrete proof, do you mean of an actual affair or if the marriage is worth saving?

You wrote this several weeks ago:

Back in the first affair, I feel that I confronted her too early without enough information which lead to dragging every nugget of data out of her. It sucked.
Don't forget that. This has happened before.

You wrote that she admitted to mild sexting. What is mild? Would your wife like it if you met a woman and started sexting with her?

And something else you wrote I don't want you to forget:

I was able to check her texts (which she has since deleted) Saturday and yes, she wore red panties for him
If she wore red panties for a guy, wouldn't that guy see those red panties?

I think you have plenty of proof to be confronting her.

We BS's are lied to so much, that we lose our way. We lose the ability to think and worse, we even lose the ability to trust our own gut feelings. We also lose our common sense.

If a woman wears red panties for some guy, doesn't it make common sense that the intention was for that guy to see those red panties. That means undressing. And that is certainly more than mild sexting.

You most certainly have enough to know something has already gone on. You have concrete evidence to confront her with.

Is the marriage worth saving, it depends on her attitude and if she can ever figure out why she does this with other guys.


Posts: 4101 | Registered: Jun 2002
Mercilesslynuked
Member
Member # 42997
Default  Posted: 1:22 PM, May 15th (Thursday)

No matter how this plays out and what advice any of us may give you, at the end of the day the only thing you control is yourself. Your actions. Your choices. You have to live with yourself, not with her or her choices. If that means giving her rope to hang herself and seeing if she does, great. You'll have your answer. If it means drawing a line in the sand and seeing if she still seeks out the rope or instead respects the line ferociously, great. You'll also have your answer. Only you know what actions you will proudly live with. At the end of the day the choice is yours.


Never apologize for having high standards. People who really want to be in your life will rise up to meet them.

D-day 1/6/2014-1/23/2014


Posts: 164 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Colorado
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, May 15th (Thursday)

Can me a fool if you wish.
I need to know if this marriage is worth trying to save. After too long of guesses, suppositions, and meager proof. I need something concrete.

Maybe coming here has been a mistake...

I don't think anyone here is attacking you, or calling you a fool. You are here for advice, and help in "Surviving Infidelity" . We have all been through it in some way or another, and any advice given is from our hearts, and minds on how to minimize your pain, and protect yourself.

You love your wife. It is incredibly painful to know that your trust has been destroyed.

It can be painful to hear the truth, or consider things that you thought you would never have to.
I hope you stick around and really benefit from the care, support and advice here.

There's a saying around these parts "Take what you need, and leave the rest" I hope you can do that.

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8687 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 2:10 PM, May 15th (Thursday)

Thanks guys. I guess I got a little defensive.

And I'm of course second guessing myself. Hell, there's a part of me that wants to forget everything and put my head in the sand. I won't. I can't. I just miss what we had.


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
needfriendshere
Member
Member # 43350
Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, May 15th (Thursday)

Of course you miss what you had. Honey, we all do! Wanting to believe that your W is doing nothing illicit is normal. And it feels right. I get it. I really do.

Just know that we are here for you - no matter what. We are here if your weekend ends up being fabulous or if it doesn't. Just promise us you will update us once Monday rolls around.

We are all in this with you. That's what we do here...I, too, have been praying a lot lately and will add you to my ever-growing list!


Me: early 50's
WH: early 50's
Married: 23 years
DS: 21 years old
Other DS: 18 years old
D-day: 2/14/2014
H's AP lasted 6 years, but we are both trying hard to R.

Posts: 423 | Registered: May 2014
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, May 15th (Thursday)

And I'm of course second guessing myself. Hell, there's a part of me that wants to forget everything and put my head in the sand. I won't. I can't. I just miss what we had.

We get that better than anyone. Things are going ok, so why upset the status quo.

1. Without changing her mindset she will continue to do this over and over until she has sucked your soul dry.

2. You deserve love and respect, just like every other human being, and if she is incapable of giving it, the sooner you know and act the sooner you can have a happy life.

3. You tried that once before, and now you are here.

You have every right to be upset, angry, pissed off, and generally an emotional wreck. But remember we are the closest to having walked in your shoes than anyone else.

Hang in there. You will survive, and you will be stronger and smarter for it.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8687 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 4:41 PM, May 15th (Thursday)

CanITrustHer

Can I make a suggestion?

If the race is close to your home find out where the finish line is and go meet her there with your kids.

Surprise her.

And make sure the OM sees you, your kids and her together as a family unit.

And no matter what you find out on Friday go there as a family and make sure she sees you and the kids supporting her.....

HM


Posts: 899 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 4:54 PM, May 15th (Thursday)

I wish I could do that, happyman. It's a very good idea. Thank you.

And thank the rest of you for your support. I feel so weak and needy.

Unfortunately, the race is an hour away, my girls have a swim meet at the same time and I'm supposed to be the flipping announcer. Won't that be fun?

This morning at the gym, I deadlifted 405lbs. It's amazing what rage can do considering that I'm barely eating. Haven't done that in years. I had a guy there take a picture so I could send it to my wife. I did it, but I broke down crying after. I hope the guy didn't notice. Wife said she liked the picture.

I can't breathe it hurts so much. Please, God, give me strength.


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
better4me
Member
Member # 30341
Default  Posted: 6:43 PM, May 15th (Thursday)

I've just read this entire thread. You've gotten a lot of advice this week. Take what parts work for you and leave the rest. All of our stories are the same even when parts of them are different. Only you know what options work best for you. It is your story.

I wish you strength as you go through the next couple of days. Eat something healthy and good for you. Take a multivitamin tonight. Hug your daughters extra hard.

Is her race buddy still staying at your house after the race?

Not everyone agreed with me, but my xhusbands EA was enough of a reason for me to file for divorce. Once I knew the extent of his on line sexual banter with the AP (who he did have contact with in real life) I didn't really care if the affair had become actually a PA or not. He denied it had become physical and I found it didn't matter to me. In my opinion most EAs are PAs that just haven't happened yet.

Courage and strength. Know that you will get through this. You will.


DDay 11/17/2010 BW:52
Divorced

Posts: 3207 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Iowa
ZedLeppelin
Member
Member # 40895
Default  Posted: 6:51 PM, May 15th (Thursday)

This is an anonymous forum. I do not know who you are, all i see is the name 'CanITrustHer' asking for advice.

I do not post here with the intention of humiliating/insulting you.

Your story reminds me of this:

A city is experiencing a terrible flood. A man is sitting on his front porch watching the water rise and a jeep drives up. “Get in! Everything’s going to be underwater!” “No thanks. God will save me. An hour passes and the water has risen in the house. A boat comes by. “Get in! You’re going to drown!” “No thanks. God will save me.” The water rises over the house. The man is now on the roof. A helicopter flies overhead. “We’ll lower a line. Grab it or you’ll die!” “No thanks. God will save me.” The man drowns. When he gets to Heaven and meets God he says, “God! Why didn’t you save me?!”

“I sent a jeep, a boat, and a helicopter. What more did you want?"

You know she is not behaving appropriately. You know she is lying. You have proof that she fantasizes about him (or is this from another thread? Apologies if I'm wrong). Regardless of what she has actually done she has proven herself to be completely untrustworthy. Your old marriage is dead. If you want to remain with her, you both need to build a new one together.

Right now, the final choice of R or D is miles away and for the moment irrelevant. You need to regain control of your own life. and start standing up for yourself. You need to be proactive, not passively reacting to each of her moves. You need to breathe, dust yourself off, breathe some more and start confronting this problem head on. You have on multiple occasions attempted to avoid conflict, and yet your life is no better. So why keep doing it?

You are not at fault for her behavior. Her actions are 100% on her. However, in my opinion you are moving dangerously close from victim to willing participant.

If i were in your position, i would have already filed for divorce. The process takes a long time, and in that time you can shock her out of her fantasy and see whether or not she is remorseful for her actions. If she doesn't care and refuses to dropkick her boyfriend, then the marriage is over anyway and you can begin to move on. There are numerous reasons for why this is an extremely painful decision to make. This is OK. Feeling like complete shit is normal in this situation. What isn't normal is continuing to have to put up with her boyfriend. If after a certain period of time, you feel it is worth reconciling - then you stop the divorce.

Others may have a different opinion on this, but after seeking legal counsel i would then expose to both your wife's family and his:

"Hey everyone. I have decided to write this email to inform you all that i have filed for divorce as a direct result of her inappropriate relationship with John Smith. The purpose of this email is to make it crystal clear that i am 100% committed to my role as a father, and i have no intention of abandoning my children. If Mrs. wants to remain with John, then that is her choice, however I will not allow my children to be exposed to the man that aided in destroying my family unit" I am sure others have a better way of wording it (if you want to do this)

Although I have used the word 'divorce' above, the aim is for you to regain control of your own life - and then you can make the decision to R or D.

You cannot force/blackmail someone into loving you. And if your love is not returned, why should you remain with her? Why not find someone else that actually understands the concept of love & respect.

And finally - adopt 180.


Posts: 198 | Registered: Oct 2013
wewillmakeit
Member
Member # 26290
Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, May 19th (Monday)

CanITrustHer:

Are you ok? Did the PI bring any resolution to this?


Posts: 265 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Midwest
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 12:06 PM, May 19th (Monday)

*** Long Update ***

So the PI followed her and the guy guy around Friday night. They had dinner and went home. Nothing happened. I met him and we chatted for a bit when they got home.

Saturday, they did the race with my buddy (who I trust) and we all went out that night.

His flight was early Sunday morning so we stayed up and then she drove him to the airport. According to the recorder in her car, they chatted about the race and nothing much happened until the last few minutes before he got out at the airport. More about this later.

Sunday, I got up and let her sleep until about 10am when I couldn't stand it any longer and woke her.

I first told her about how horrible of a week I've had and then I told her it was because she had been lying to me about many things and that now she needed to tell me to the truth. She was silent a long time and I asked if she was trying to come up with a good story. She then answered my questions. When she lied, I told her it was a lie. I never told her how I knew, but she's not stupid.

To sum up:

She says the only physical contact was a long kiss and hug while dropping him at the airport. Based on what I know, this seems true.

She admitted to lying to me about all the things that I knew, but still refuses to apologize for the lying. This still mystifies me. I think it's because in her mind she lied to me for my sake. Yea, whatever. On the plus side at least she's not just telling me what I need to hear.

She keeps saying that it's just a friendship like with any other friend. I of course ask if she buys other friends secret gifts or deletes messages to them. She says no and drops it for a time.

She admits that she doesn't know how things would be different if this guy were close. He's across the country. I told her that I think she would have been having a full blown affair.

She admits that the panties thing was incredibly stupid. I agreed.

She admits that she would have been fine keeping things as the were indefinitely. I told her that I saw an escalation and I believe that things would continue to escalate.

She told me that she would drop contact with this guy if asked. I told her that it was her choice but that reconciliation would be incredibly difficult with him in the picture even as a "friend."

She told me how it's unfair to lose this friend. I told her that was her fault because of her actions.


So right now, she's sad and withdrawn. She says she wants to save the marriage, but I feel she's really just sad at the prospect of loosing him. We have our rings on and I am fully committed to the 180.

I'm trying to follow the advice in the Just Friends book and not make any sweeping decisions/ultimatums right now, but I have told her that I need several things.

1. A full and heartfelt apology for the lying and deceit over the last few months.

2. She needs to fully realize that her relationship was not "just friends"

3. I need her to be honest.


There will probably be more. We've talked about counseling. She said she would go if she had to, but didn't want to. I think it's a good idea to try.


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 12:08 PM, May 19th (Monday)

Thank you, wewillmakeit.

I am doing much better. I guess misery truly does love company. I'm sad of course and right now I don't really see how we can heal, but maybe that will pass.


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 12:12 PM, May 19th (Monday)

She said she would go if she had to, but didn't want to

Gently, does this show that she really wants to save the marriage? You can lead a horse to water....

She told me that she would drop contact with this guy if asked. I told her that it was her choice but that reconciliation would be incredibly difficult with him in the picture even as a "friend."

She told me how it's unfair to lose this friend

Gently, she's telling you what her priorities are. Please, listen! If she really valued you as a husband, she would have dropped him and then told you she did.

Strength



BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2977 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, May 19th (Monday)

^^^^ What 5454 said.

Also, this is her 2nd affair. Yes this qualifies as an affair. She's in the fog and not currently in your marriage.

1. A full and heartfelt apology for the lying and deceit over the last few months.

2. She needs to fully realize that her relationship was not "just friends"

3. I need her to be honest.

#1, in order for you to R at this point, your #1 boundary going forward in your M is for her to fix her shit. Why is it acceptable to her to keep doing this to you? She has officially entered the repeat offender list. You just caught it before it went sexual, but kissing is a PA in most books. This will happen again unless she fixes herself.

Now that you know it's a PA, what about her affair partner's situation? Does he have a spouse or girlfriend?

yop

ETA - updated the word "friend" to affair partner since that is what he is. Without a doubt. You should refer to him by "affair partner" with her going forward any time you speak to her about it.

[This message edited by yearsofpain25 at 12:29 PM, May 19th (Monday)]


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2179 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, May 19th (Monday)

You guys are right. She is not fully committed to saving the marriage.

She doesn't think it was an affair. I do though not as bad as the first one. She was "in love" and they had sex. Guess that's an improvement.

Years ago, we were talking about my dad and his drinking. I said that he wasn't an alcoholic because he kept it under control. She pointed out that there are different levels of alcoholics which is true. Well, I have pointed out to her that there are different levels of affairs. I'm sure it didn't sink it.

I keep wanting to pick up my phone and text her about my day or how I'm feeling or to just tell her I love her. This 180 thing is hard.

ETA: As far as I know, the other guy isn't married and doesn't have a girlfriend. Ironically, he got divorced two years ago because his wife had an affair. Nice.

[This message edited by CanITrustHer at 12:42 PM, May 19th (Monday)]


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 12:46 PM, May 19th (Monday)

She admitted to lying to me about all the things that I knew, but still refuses to apologize for the lying
You also think she lies in order not to hurt you...do not fall into that trap. Sure that could be what she is thinking and it sounds nice. But in reality, lying is only used because you do not want someone to know the truth.

There are several valid reasons to lie. To save yourself from embarrassment, to keep the affair alive and so as not to anger the BS. All three are usually a reason for a lie in an affair.

Ask her point blank why she feels lying is okay, why she feels lying to you is acceptable. Would she like it if all of a sudden you started lying to her about every single thing.

She told me how it's unfair to lose this friend.
Ask her how fair it us for you to be sitting at home trying to trust and believe her while she is sitting in a car kissing this guy...just how fair is all of this to you.

We've talked about counseling. She said she would go if she had to, but didn't want to. I think it's a good idea to try.
Of course she doesn't want to go. That means being embarrassed in front of a stranger. That means being told by someone other than you, that what she did was wrong. And she hates to hear that.

Apparently she needs to read the book Not Just Friends, because she doesn't get it.

I am glad the PI didnt find anything absolutely terrible like an afternoon in a motel room. And now you can move forward with what you do know happened. No more wondering.


Posts: 4101 | Registered: Jun 2002
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 1:25 PM, May 19th (Monday)

I think you are right. Geography is your ally in preventing what could be an LTA. Lying is toxic, and the desire to keep this "friend" only makes it worse.

I've commented like this before to others: there is no hint of remorse in what she has said. It's all about how things will impact her. Fog? I think so.

You should consider doing what Bigger has taught others here. Tell her she's free to work on your marriage or she's free to keep in communication with him. But not as your wife.
It's that simple. You do not want a three person marriage.


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 2:36 PM, May 19th (Monday)

from craig2001

Ask her how fair it us for you to be sitting at home trying to trust and believe her while she is sitting in a car kissing this guy...just how fair is all of this to you.

...and to your kids and your family.

he got divorced two years ago because his wife had an affair.

Is the irony of that statement lost on her? That she's willing to throw away your M with someone who is now knowingly partaking in an A even after affair partner himself may (or may not) have been the vicitim of an A. He's a liar and a cheat so nothing he said may be true.

AP knows all about you. He's met you and your kids. AP's willing to be a cheat himself. Point out that this guy has no character that he can come and meet your family and still have the balls to effect your M. Serious balls so if he's willing to go that far, what else is he cheating at? He cannot be trusted. AP might say he doesn't have a girlfriend, but you can't really be sure because AP is now a known cheat. Bottom line, her AP can't be trusted just as she can't be trusted. She might not see it but can't hurt to point it out.

Point out that one of the consequences of her actions is that this AP has now violated you and your family knowingly. Keep showing her the consequences of her actions. Let her know that if he had a girlfriend or a wife you would be exposing the affair to them as well. And if you find out that he does, you should expose it.

Bottom line, keep letting her know that her actions have consequences. That you are willing to have an M with her, but not with three. NC should be #2 on your list of boundaries.


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2179 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 3:08 PM, May 19th (Monday)

Ok here goes, and this may seem harsh, but I have no filter, and I certainly suck at being gentle. Just call me Nurse Ratchet.....

She keeps saying that it's just a friendship like with any other friend. I of course ask if she buys other friends secret gifts or deletes messages to them

NO Not Just a friend. She is justifying her actions to you and minimizing them.

She admits that she would have been fine keeping things as the were indefinitely.

BULL LONY.....She would have been happy to take if further when he came to town, if her pesky husband wasn't in the way.

She admits that the panties thing was incredibly stupid.

NO IT's not stupid IT's CHEATING.

She told me how it's unfair to lose this friend. I told her that was her fault because of her actions.

OH and it's fair to take what you assumed was a normal marriage and destroy it, without even talking to you?

She is manipulating you. I hope you can see that. I also hope that you have called her out on her bullshit with each of these statements. Cause quite honestly it makes me want to smack her. She sounds like a self entitled brat.

YOU deserve more. She isn't even owning up to this as having an A, or crossing a line. IT is definitely an A, PA, EA, whatever you want to call it, it is an A.

I hope you can stay strong and cautious. I fear that the second you let your guard down she is going to destroy your relationship even further.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8687 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 3:30 PM, May 19th (Monday)

You need to get really tough with her. She lies and deceives you, brings another man into your home (not a hotel where she could bang him) only because you caught her, and this low life scum bag after sleeping in your house makes out with her at the airport. I would tell her the next conversation she has with him it's done and also that she is not going to any out of town races that you do not attend or geography will not be on your side for long. If he is single he can easily go to wherever she is with no problem.
If you make any compromises and her leaving town overnight you are asking for more trouble and if she misses a race too bad

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 6:18 AM, May 20th (Tuesday)

So we have a counseling session this Wednesday. She is not happy and might not say much, but will come so that is something.

She has not told the other guy the extent of our conversations. She says, they've only talked about race stuff and she mentioned that they needed to talk.

She still thinks that I'm overreacting based on the previous affair.

I still think that she's in lala land.

We had a long talk last night about all of this. It got pretty heated at times. Around midnight, we were at a calm point and decided to quit kicking each other for the night.

I need to reread the 180. Some of those points are easier said than done.


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
william
Member
Member # 41986
Default  Posted: 6:37 AM, May 20th (Tuesday)

dont be surprised if she does honestly believe these things to be true. a wandering spouses head can be stuck incredibly far up their rear end and they tend to justify and rationalize things to minimize/maximize whatever they have to in order to be able to continue the justifications and rationalizations.

many waywards repeat these lies so often that they in effect rewrite history in their minds. who wants to tell themselves "im a selfish, inconsiderate person who placed myself and my pleasures above my family with no acceptable excuse possible". so they rewrite history, minimize the relationship with the OP, and maximize their rationals ... all in an attempt to be able to better live with themselves and their actions.


me - bh
her - lara01

from 09/11 - 05/13
2 ONS, 10 sexting partners, 1 LT EA/PA

??/06/13 DD/1 - admits to LT EA, begin false R.
01/13/14 DD/2 - LTA was PA.
01/18/14 DD/3 - sexting 5 guys.
01/19/14 DD/4 - 2 ONS with different guys


Posts: 549 | Registered: Jan 2014
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 6:40 AM, May 20th (Tuesday)

As the saying goes, this isn't her first rodeo. She knows this is despicable action which wounds you deeply. There is little doubt but that had you stuck your head in the sand she woul have had her romantic "fling" (her description, not the truth but fog-shrouded nonsense) and hoped you would remain ignorant of the situation.

Do you know wht her "issues" are that predate the ski trip? Those are fair game for your upcoming session, Think about them to prepare. Never go into a meeting without knowing the agenda in advance or you will find yourself at a big disadvantage.

[This message edited by Schadenfreude at 6:53 AM, May 20th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 7:35 AM, May 20th (Tuesday)

She has not told the other guy the extent of our conversations. She says, they've only talked about race stuff and she mentioned that they needed to talk.

I'm sorry but I don't believe this for one damn second.
Listen this is her second time doing this and she is the queen of minimizing. You need to become the king of "I don't believe you."

Actions are what you need to be paying attention to, not the drivel coming out of her mouth. She is saying exactly what she knows she is supposed to, and to get you to believe that this is still all about a race, when in your gut you know that a race doesn't end with making out with someones wife.

You need to really do some soul searching, and some reading on codependency, to help you understand why you are so willing to allow her to treat you like this. These actions are not those of love or caring. These are actions of someone who is concerned only about themselves.

I know this hurts like hell, but until you start putting yourself first she is going to continue to disrespect you, and cheat.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8687 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 7:47 AM, May 20th (Tuesday)

It is YOUR job to knock her out of la la land!!!! She has given this guy a passionate kiss at the airport, not told him anything about your wanting this to end, so as far as she is concerned, he is still her ":friend" until she can get together with him again. Not sure what the mention of ski trip is, but if you allow that now you are doomed!!!

You need to go over in therapy tomorrow that you are not under any circumstances accepting this guy in your marriage any more.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, May 20th (Tuesday)

So we have a counseling session this Wednesday.

And when its your turn to talk and explain why you both are in counseling you need to tell it exactly like it is, like this:

"13 years ago my wife had an affair. It was ugly. We separated but finally reconciled. Now we have two beautiful daughters.
In general our marriage is good now...or perhaps it was. A few months ago she met a guy on a girls ski trip. He lives close to where she grew up so they had something in common. She told me all this at the time and I wasn't worried.

But now I'm starting to wonder. They've been texting and calling each other...and she's been deleting some of the texts. Also there have been other hints. She takes her phone w her everywhere where before she was constantly leaving it around.
"

Those are your words, your story. End it with the latest information about her making out with this guy at the airport.

If your MC is good, he/she will call your WW out and agree that it is an A. It is what your WW fears to hear.

You should also read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover and see how you are "Nicing" things along for your WW way too much.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 553 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 8:50 AM, May 20th (Tuesday)

She says, they've only talked about race stuff and she mentioned that they needed to talk.
Do you mean she has already told this OM that they needed to talk? If so, when did she tell him that. That sort of sounds like, she intends to continue talking with him. With a WS, you have to listen to what they never say.

She doesn't get it. She does not understand what an affair does to the BS. And until she does understand that, she will continue to say things like you are overreacting because of the last affair.

Somehow you or a book or a therapists needs to explain to her how affairs start. Flirting is usually how all affairs start.

And then you get to that kiss. Well, how does she expect you to react.

She says you are overreacting. No, not at all. She was starting another physical affair. She cannot sugar coat it in any way, she was well on her way to having another affair. In reality, she already was in an affair...but for the sake of argument with her. I would keep it to, you were about to have another affair, plain and simple.


Posts: 4101 | Registered: Jun 2002
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 9:02 AM, May 22nd (Thursday)

Can't Trust her

So what was the result of therapy??? Are you going to let it continue????


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, May 22nd (Thursday)

Therapy went better than expected. She was polite to the therapist and talked more than I thought.

She also talked to the guy last night and they are stopping communication.

The therapist asked us to try to work on reestablishing trust. To that end, she agreed to give me access to her phone anytime and promised not to delete texts. We'll see how that goes.

We've both been very angry. today, we decided to not talk about relationship stuff for the next few days


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 12:23 PM, May 22nd (Thursday)

Imagine......she had to have a therapist tell her that what she was doing was incompatible with continued marital status. Whatever, at least it appears to be working. If she did, in fact, have the "no contact" communication.

I thought of something today. I'm not a runner, at least since high school days long ago. In fact, I'm looking for one of those 0.0 stickers for my car instead of a 26.2 sticker. But, I know from friends who do run, many events require registry of entrants. Many have websites listing entrants. Something about getting qualified for events such as Boston Marathon. If you want credit or recognition, you have to use your real name.

Anyway, should your wife enter events, and you know OM's name, you may want to check the event's website and look for entrants.

Trust, but verify.
This doesn't apply to local fun runs and the like. But it does apply to serious events.


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 12:37 PM, May 22nd (Thursday)

Excellent point about the race registrations. He races all over the country and she is talking about doing a triathlon in the fall. I'll check it out.


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 12:39 PM, May 22nd (Thursday)

You need to find a way to verify that no texts are deleted.

Reestablishing trust is all about the WS keeping their word. And for the BS, they have to have proof. Not just words at this point.


Posts: 4101 | Registered: Jun 2002
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, May 22nd (Thursday)

My late partner always said "two heads are better than one, even if one is a pumpkin". Just call me pumpkin head, but the SI Collective is a powerful organism when united to solve a problem. They cannot resist. (Star Trek Gen 2 Borg reference -- yeah, I'm a closeted geek). You are being assimilated and soon will be instructing others who follow.

Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, May 22nd (Thursday)

I've been using a spystick on her phone, but it doesn't seem to show me the deleted texts anymore. I wonder if it's because she hasn't updated her phone in some time and I foolishly updated the spystick.

I've been using a voice recorder that she doesn't know about. In fact I had it in the room when she spoke to him. I told her to go someplace else, but she wouldn't. I will say the conversation made it seem like there isn't anything more than what I know. Of course, she was a total bitch ripping on me often and telling him some pretty private stuff. I even asked her this morning if she told him one thing in particular. She said no. On the recorder she told him all about, even embelished a bit.

Maybe she's not a cheater, but I'm really starting to not like this woman.


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 12:54 PM, May 22nd (Thursday)

Oh, so I have to vent about last nights "discussion." She now considers all the lies "white lies." She also says she didn't want to tell me anything because I would get upset. Hell, she's also started to rationalize the birthday presents. Next, she'll explain why wearing those panties was a good idea.

Yea, really not liking this woman right now.


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, May 22nd (Thursday)

Promise I'll stop in a moment. She now considers this my issue because of my anger. She's only working on things because we are a couple.

Oh, and everything I say is wrong. She was talking about doing a triathlon in the Fall. I asked her if she would like us to do it together. I don't run and have no interest, but would do it. She later told me I was smothering her with that.


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, May 22nd (Thursday)

She deserves to be smothered and if you do not go to it you are crazy. You cannot let her blame shift to you. And you need to make it clear that if this starts up again it's over.
What did she say when they agreed to no contact. Now did she put it

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 1:20 PM, May 22nd (Thursday)

I am not usually so cynical, but every word your wife is saying, screams she is still having an affair.

The everything you do is wrong. White lies only, and smothering comments.

Ask her some pointed common sense questions. If you were having an affair with some woman, would she be mad?

Have her answer that honestly, if she says "no, I wouldn't mind it if you liked other women or went out with them." That means most likely she is still in an affair.

The NC phone call could have just been made up where the OM knows she doesn't mean it, or there is a different OM.

Your wife's words are troubling to say the least.

Maybe you should get to know this OM better, have the PI do a background check on him. You just never know.


Posts: 4101 | Registered: Jun 2002
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, May 22nd (Thursday)

Keep the surveillance secret. Even if that means biting your tongue when she tells another lie. If you don't she'll go underground with burner phone, work email on her work gf's computer, or any other devious means she can devise.

I'm curious. I thought she went NC per telephone call to him. It sure doesn't sound like it.


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 1:32 PM, May 22nd (Thursday)

I need to backtrack a little bit about the red panties and the birthday. If this guy lives in Canada, when did she see him on his birthday to wear the panties for him?

Now that things seem more tense or at odds, can you talk to one of the woman on that ski trip and ask her some questions? Where was this ski trip?

Sure sounds like there is a different OM.


Posts: 4101 | Registered: Jun 2002
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, May 22nd (Thursday)

Not necessarily. "Wear red panties for me and send me a pic". "OK"
type,type, type, attach, send. Voila, its done. Sexting due to distance. Very plausible. And what a nice birthday present

Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
GabyBaby
Member
Member # 26928
Default  Posted: 1:57 PM, May 22nd (Thursday)

Not necessarily. "Wear red panties for me and send me a pic". "OK"

Or Skype, Oovoo, Facetime, or some other video chat.


Me - 42
SorryInSac (WH#2) - 47. DDay 7/12/14
Married 4, together 7yrs total
Status - Stick a fork in me...

DD(21), DS(18, PDD-NOS)
6 Furkids - 4 dogs, 2 cats

WXH (serial cheater, 12+ OW) - Legally married 18yrs

I edit often for clarity.


Posts: 6520 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: California
strongerdaybyday
Member
Member # 40264
Default  Posted: 2:06 PM, May 22nd (Thursday)

Your gut is talking. So listen.

((HUGS))


Me-BW Him - WH
Married 6 years, together 13+ years
D-Day Summer 2013
children-3
If it is what it is then what is it?

**If I edit I'm correcting a typo!**


Posts: 384 | Registered: Aug 2013
Tren0R201
Member
Member # 39633
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, May 22nd (Thursday)

How can you R with a person that presents one front to your face and then another when you're not around?

You said MC went better than expected but then she turns around and lies about what she said to OM, even ripping into you.

All her actions until now still scream she doesn't get it and probably never will. Just because communication with OM "stops" doesn't mean everything is over.

It didn't appear to be a "Sorry we can't talk because I love my husband and I'm truly sorry for what I've done now it's over"

More like

"I really don't want to but he's making me do it, you know what he's like *rolling her eyes*, I'm sorry I'm doing this to you *intoned but not stated*"

There is a difference between "Not getting" and not giving a toss because she willfully doesn't care.


Posts: 188 | Registered: Jun 2013
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 3:42 PM, May 22nd (Thursday)

Can't Trust Her

This woman disrespects you so much that she has begun an affair and brought this man into your home. You know more than she thinks you know because old PI. You should do the following if I were you
(1) I would call this guy myself and tell him you are following up your wife's phone call to reinforce that you expect no more contact with her . I would also reinforce and tell him that you have told your wife you are divorcing her if she has any more contact with him. Since she already blamed it on you just piss her off and make sure he understands it on your terms.
(2) I would consider confronting her with all the PI evidence including the kiss. I wouldn't worry about her going further underground. In present state you'll have to hire PI again in future if you don't stop this and a good. PI will be able to outsmart her. It will also put a little cold water on her party knowing that eveni if she did go out of town she will have to assume you might hire PI there. If you convince her she is not going to get away with it she will either stop or D.
You cannot worry about how mad or accusatory she is of you. I personally would have been in jail had she brought this guy into my house under the same circumstances.
(3) you need to CONFRONT her in MC big time where she can't run and will get pressed for answers by therapist.
She needs to be pressured and to believe SHE will not live peacefully with you behaving like this.
Please stop being Mr Niceguy


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Commanche1
Member
Member # 39692
Default  Posted: 4:14 PM, May 22nd (Thursday)

Look your wife is mad at you for making her breakup with her boyfriend, She is having an affair and still is despite her sending no contact, You should let her know that she can date anyone she wants, just not as your wife. Let her know that she is free to leave, if she is unwilling to commit to the marriage then you need to file, you can always stop it later if she comes around, right now she has no respect for you, she is blaming you for the tension, kick her off the fence, you have got to be willing to end the marriage in order to save it.

Posts: 71 | Registered: Jun 2013
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 4:23 PM, May 22nd (Thursday)

In reality, your wife has no business being mad at you. Like others have said, she is mad at you for catching her.

Was the fact brought up in MC that this is your wife's second affair that you know of in 13 years.

She probably doesn't like to be reminded of that either, but once again, she has no business being mad at you.


Posts: 4101 | Registered: Jun 2002
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 5:26 PM, May 22nd (Thursday)

Actually, she brought up the first affair. She thinks it's important because "I'm overreacting as a result of the first affair."

As for the other comments. Thank you. I'm mad at her and she's being pretty shitty, but I'm going to continue as is. I'll put the recorder in her car as much as I can and I'll check her phone log as well as her texts. I don't think she's savvy enough to delete her phone log at the moment.

Actually, I'm fine with this dragging out. I'm in a much calmer place and she's the one that seems to be suffering. I've heard her crying a couple of times on the recorder. Yea, she's probably not crying for me.

I keep asking myself what I'll do if she does maintain contact. I'm not sure. Perhaps call her out in front of the therapist.


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 5:38 PM, May 22nd (Thursday)

CanI help me out here, did you see a lawyer already or not?

If not please do so immediately.
She does not have any remorse and is quite frankly pissed off because she isn't being allowed to continue to engage in her A.
This is her second merry go round that you know of. I know you are scared, and sad, and probably even a little disappointed in yourself.

Nothing changes if you change nothing however.
YOU need to take her to task at the next MC meeting. Give her your list of requirements for R, and hand her some D papers. Let her know you are done playing mr nice guy, and have decided to pull out the big guns, and start demanding the respect you deserve.

NO ONE here that saved their M with a spouse that was caught did it by playing nice. We all had to at one point or another bite the bullet and get seriously ready to end the M. The longer you wait the less likely she will be willing to snap out of the fog, and do the work.

See a lawyer.
Get STD tested (PLEASE).
Start getting your financial ducks in a row.

You deserve better, this is how you become strong enough to demand it.

(((and strength)))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8687 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 6:24 PM, May 22nd (Thursday)

I've heard her crying a couple of times on the recorder.
Alone or talking on the phone.

Crying alone, that is hard to know why. A guess is she is crying because she doesn't know what to do. Usually people do not cry when they have made up their minds to something. Crying could very well be just confusion.

I would confront her in front of the MC, that way it can't end up being he said she said stuff later on.

Actually, she brought up the first affair. She thinks it's important because "I'm overreacting as a result of the first affair."
Did the MC have any comments about this. I would think because of the first affair you are not overreacting. A second affair is a hell of a lot more than just a mistake, just bad judgement to be learned from.

Posts: 4101 | Registered: Jun 2002
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 6:29 PM, May 22nd (Thursday)

So you think you have heard her crying on recorder, not over hurting you, but over other man( your words), and you THINK you might want to confront her if you catch her again. And you're not sure of that, meaning you might just let it go???
Not sure if you really want to solve your problem and get some commitment from your wife or if at this point you just want to know she is cheating on you and pining for her AP.
I guess some of us just can't imagine being in your position after what we have just read you went through, and thinking that you have the upper hand.
I hope we don't hear you have caught her again but given the fact she is crying about him I'd bet you will be back with more trouble for yourself. Hope I am wrong

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 8:13 AM, May 23rd (Friday)

So I have learned to take some comments and let the others slid by.

Yes, I got myself std tested a few weeks back and I'm confident there has only been that kiss at the airport between then and now. All clear.

I have not seen a lawyer and will not unless we are head that direction.

I will not tell her about the voice recorder with my current evidence.

This is also a bit of a personal journal, so I'm going to write what I'm thinking and find as it happens. Please feel free to respond or not.

I checked her text and call log. It does not appear that they had contact. I listened to yesterday's recording's last night. It was a lot of listening to country music and sitting in the car saying nothing with the car apparently idling. He's into country. She isn't.

Oh, one bit that I'm trying not to make too much of. A week or so ago, I stumbling across John Legend's song All of Me. I texted her that she should listen to it as it's a really powerful song (it is). She listened to it but not much came of it. Anyway, as she was switching stations, the song came on. I listened willing her to sit and hear the whole thing. She didn't. She turned off the car and headed in. Hopefully that doesn't mean what I think it means.

Last night, we were civil and didn't talk about anything big as we agreed. I did signal that I was not interested in sex. We are both sexual people and have sex often for an old married couple, but I'm not interested. Monday night when things calmed down, I told her that I didn't want to have sex, but I would like to kiss her. She refused saying emotions were too high. Fair enough, but then she told him Wed when they had their NC conversation that I was trying to have sex with her. It was almost in a joking way. Really hurt. Again, she might not be a cheater, but she's a liar and a pretty shitty person right now.


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 8:20 AM, May 23rd (Friday)

I have not seen a lawyer and will not unless we are head that direction.

As a veteran here, I would encourage you to rethink this. Many many people here make their decisions on beliefs of what could or what they believe will happen. Often what they believe, or assume will happen is very wrong. Getting the knowledge of your rights, her responsibilities, and how things would happen should you need to make some hard decisions is very helpful in moving forward.

She certainly sounds very foggy still.
I would look for that second phone too.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8687 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 8:45 AM, May 23rd (Friday)

No argument that she's still in a fog. I will think about the lawyer. How about that?

And I will continue to monitor and I'll look for a second phone. I have stopped keeping cash around. I used to keep plenty of cash in a drawer for her. She doesn't use atm's.


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 8:48 AM, May 23rd (Friday)

I listened to yesterday's recording's last night. It was a lot of listening to country music and sitting in the car saying nothing with the car apparently idling. He's into country. She isn't.
That was one of the very first indications I knew my wife was having an A. All of a sudden interest in CW.

That is one of the first indicators of an affair, sudden and odd change in personal likes and dislikes.

Her not wanting to kiss you, with her excuse of her emotions are too high.

That would be worrisome. Emotions, what kind of emotions? That would have been my first and most immediate question. I would not have let that slide.

It is really hard to say, but it sure sounds like she is in an active affair, talking with this OM.

OR, she could be in a huge withdrawal period. That usually shows itself as depressed, aloof and withdrawn attitudes.

I would consider talking to a lawyer since you have kids. She could snap and leave. She is certainly acting funny. And I would be nervous in a way that she sits in her car listening to C&W which is what the OM likes. To most that would sound odd or stupid of me to write that, but that is just a huge sign.


Posts: 4101 | Registered: Jun 2002
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 9:01 AM, May 23rd (Friday)

Fair enough, but then she told him Wed when they had their NC conversation that I was trying to have sex with her. It was almost in a joking way. Really hurt. Again, she might not be a cheater, but she's a liar and a pretty shitty person right now.

CanITrustHer, I’m in Texas. My D is finalizing today. We are in a no-fault state. There is a mandatory 60 day waiting period from the time she is “served” the D papers. That’s 60-days for her to get her head out of her ass and start clearing her fog and start taking you seriously. Even after the waiting period expires, and assuming you are filing uncontested, your lawyer will still need to schedule a prove-up at the court to finalize the divorce. That means you can give her more time if you think it is necessary, but at this point your finger is on a hair trigger for the D. You can pull it the moment you know that D is the only answer. But if it will turn into a contested D, then you should be consulting with an L right now to know how to protect your assets and your interests. You need to know what is considered communal property. You need to take steps to protect your credit record. More importantly, either contested or uncontested, YOU need to control the pace of the D process as the petitioner.
I personally know how hard it is to step into an L’s office and start getting advice. They are not therapists so their advice will be difficult to hear, but you do need to listen to it. Just because you step through their office doors it doesn’t mean you made your choice to D. What it does mean is you made your choice to not take your WW’s bullshit anymore. What it does mean is you are taking action to protect yourself.
The amount of disrespect you are hearing from her in those VAR recordings should tell you that she is secretly waging a war with you right now. She is enlisting this OM to validate her cause against you, for whatever resentment she has with you. We all know none of it is justified, but she is acting like petulant self entitled 13 yr old girl. She is unable to work with you on your M as a rational adult.
Look, I did exactly what you did. I waited. Then I let my XW file, and she dragged it on unnecessarily for another 9 months as the petitioner while she enjoyed her cake-eating lifestyle. Don’t let her pull that stunt on you.
Besides, even if you both D you can still get back together if R is even possible. You just cannot let fear dictate how you stand your ground. I can tell you know that your “nicing” approach (and I did this as well) is doing nothing but feeding the ego of that petulant self entitled monster in your WW right now.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 553 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 9:10 AM, May 23rd (Friday)

Good job on the cash situation and staying vigilant.

...her cause against you, for whatever resentment she has with you. We all know none of it is justified, but she is acting like petulant self entitled 13 yr old girl. She is unable to work with you on your M as a rational adult.

^^^Yep. It is so very frustrating indeed. But there is no real option other than 'tough love'.
...I waited. Then I let my XW file, and she dragged it on unnecessarily for another 9 months as the petitioner while she enjoyed her cake-eating lifestyle...even if you both D you can still get back together if R is even possible. You just cannot let fear dictate how you stand your ground.

^^^Yep. There are advantages to being the petitioner. By being the 'nice' guy, with her being as she is being, you are setting yourself up for a shoe dropping at a time that makes sense for her. There is no downside (except for $$$ fees) with being proactive. Even filing for divorce does not mean that you are actually divorcing.

As he said, I think a lot of folks are reluctant to protect boundaries and to file out of a fear of 'driving' their WS 'away'. Newsflash: she is already 'away'. Denial is very powerful indeed. Unfortunately.

Ultimately, you are the victim here, and you should work hard to make the future happen at your timing and for your protection, not hers.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 9:15 AM, May 23rd (Friday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 881 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, May 23rd (Friday)

I am a lawyer. Explain that you are not ready to file but you are at the office to learn what your rights and responsibilities are in the event you do enter the divorce process. This is stuff any lawyer who handles divorces locally will know.

Prepare,an outline of your issues
Custody
Support
Visitation
Health insurance
Property division
Assets and debts (approximate is good enough for this purpose)
How long if uncontested
How long if contested
Fees and costs ( contested usually is hourly since you don't control how much she will fight)
Does fault play any role in any of the above in your state
Pension rights of other spouse--and vice versa if she has pension, too.

Most lawyers offer free consultations unless the firm is one that exists to extract maximum revenue from every person who walks through the door. Ask ahead of time.

Information=knowledge=less fear and uncertainty=power

As someone above stated, lawyers aren't marriage counselors. Although most can tell you who the good ones are.

If you're in a fight, don't fight over trinkets. Only the lawyers benefit from such fights by getting higher fees.


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 11:17 AM, May 23rd (Friday)

Thanks guys. I will continue to think about the lawyer and promise to see one if she breaks NC.


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 1:16 PM, May 23rd (Friday)

Can't Trust Her

Just reread your entire post and understand that last time you felt you really confronted too early without enough information. Others have given you good info and reasons why you should see a lawyer in advance of needing one so you are prepared.

Just thought I would see if there may be anything else you might not have thought of. You stated that there was one friend on this girls ski trip who you are confident would have told you if she thought your wife slept with this guy on trip. Let's assume that is true, but you can't be sure of that. The other friends on this trip could easily at lunch or gym let her use their cell phones to contact this guy and you will never know unless she talks about it to someone in her car. That is just another are of enforcing NC that is hard to monitor.

You DO have one major thing in your favor as far as her starting a PA with this guy if one did not already happen, and that is the geography of him being across the country from where you live. But that is also a bit disturbing for this reason. Ask yourself why a fit, active single guy living across the country would have any real desire to doggedly maintain a relationship with a married woman whose husband does not approve UNLESS he was already invested in some physical relationship with her. Would you do that???? My guess is that unless you had already banged her or where sure she wanted you to that you would have better things to do then get involved in this drama. I believe that you wife is the pursuer here and that she will be the one who breaks NC, but I know if i was him I'd move on to more eligible women.

The other advantage you have is that you are stating that you two had a good and frequent sexual relationship prior to this. Well, she will either do one of two things. If she starts to not want to have sex with you as often or does not act the same towards you, that will give you continuous feedback on where her head is at. Most BH or BW notice a difference in the intimacy. Her other option is to give you more sex to lull you to sleep. So you should get some idea what is going on easier than if as a couple you had very little intimacy or closeness.

Now for the downside. You and everyone reading what is going on knows she is not thinking about you right now, and given that you have deprived her of something i would be alert that she does not start up with a local running buddy.I am not a big disciple of this Dr Hartley guy who writes the books, but i know he recommends that couples do some leisure activities together because when one partner spends a lot of time doing something without the other they are more likely to enter an affair. She obviously has had at least an EA. It could manifest itself with someone else because her heart is not with you right now.

Lastly, I know you are getting tough comments from me and others, but we took the lumps and is most of the cases did not catch it at the stage you might have. The betting lione of probably 95% of the people talking to you, all of whom do not want to see you hurt any more, is that you wife cannot be trusted further than you can throw her, and that she will burn you again if given the opportunity.

You know about all the out of town races. You also know this other guy has the funds to go to them, and if there are any other girls trips planned i dont see how you can agree to that knowing he is single and can afford to fly anywhere.

Keep posting. Hang in there.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 2:02 PM, May 23rd (Friday)

That's depressing. I don't think they have gone further than kissing g but I think that is due to him. I have listened to that kiss over and over and even tried to clean up the sound. There's a fair bit of background noise. But it is clear that after two tries he stopped the kiss saying "this is wrong". I can't hear her reply but he gets out of the car and she drives off after.

Would his resolve break down in the future? Probably. My wife is a very sexy creature.


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 2:04 PM, May 23rd (Friday)

I will continue to think about the lawyer and promise to see one if she breaks NC.

Yup. Gave myself those ultimatums too. Funny thing was, I kept pushing that ultimatum to myself down the road because I was scared. I was codependent in the marriage.

Like Badhurt explains, we are speaking from experience. What we see is script behavior, not only from your WW but from you as well.

This isn't a 2x4 at you. Just know that we understand, far more than you may believe. You want solid ground to stand on before taking action. Just make sure you don't keep kicking the can down the road for too far on your self-ultimatums. If she gets ahead of you on all this it will definitely bite you in the ass later.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 553 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, May 23rd (Friday)

Soap opera stars? If so, this may only have been the end of an episode. Or, he realizes that this geographically undesirable tryst is wrong. But why? Or he's H Bogart and she's I Bergman in the last scene of Casablanca at the airport where she takes off with her H and leaves Bogart on the runway. We' ll always have Paris........

He knows what a mess an A can bring? She doesn't, or has forgotten.

Where is that damn crystal ball when you need it?

Your motto should be " I only have two balls and neither is made of crystal".


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 4:26 PM, May 23rd (Friday)

Or, he realizes that this geographically undesirable tryst is wrong.
Interesting, there is something I had not thought of and is rarely ever seen here. The OM said no more, because it isn't right or it's too far of a distance. This could be the reason your wife is so down.

If thats the case, her withdrawal symptoms should start to fade. Or she really needs to find out what her mental state in life is.

She certainly needs to be clearer with you about your future together. She could be thinking anything at this time, which is unfair to you not knowing what she is thinking.


Posts: 4101 | Registered: Jun 2002
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 5:42 PM, May 23rd (Friday)

Can't Trust Her
Try not to be depressed. Get from the denial stage to the MAD stage. Depression will lead to inaction and paralysis. You need to be alert and active on guard . That is why we are here to help keep you focused.
I did not mean to imply that I thought your PI missed a real sexual encounter after race. I just can't imagine this guy pursuing your wife all over country if nothing happened on ski trip. Especially with your disapproval of him now known:
The point is your wife did, was, or is trying to have an affair with him, and may look for another running buddy even if you successfully kill this off, unless she decides to work on your marriage. Her boundaries suck as evidenced by having the balls to invite this guy independently into your home without asking you.
Unless she shows some sign of seriously working on your marriage and rebuilding your trust, you will eventually need the lawyer over this guy or another one that she befriends. That is why others are telling you to be prepared.
And again no more overnights away from you anywhere

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
mchercheur
Member
Member # 37735
Default  Posted: 6:52 PM, May 23rd (Friday)

CanITrustHer,

I am late to this thread, but I think we can all agree that 3 essential components(out of many) of marriage are:

1. respect
2. kindness
3. being a team

Let me ask you 3 questions:

1. Is she respecting you with her actions right now?
2. Is she showing you any kindness?
3. Is her identity "we" or "me" right now?

Do you deserve this ^^^^^?


together 25 yrs, married 24 yrs, 4 children;Rebuilding
D Day: 5/10/2011 PA
OW: WH's co-worker,divorced, no children, 20 yrs younger than I-----& she knew he was married, had met our kids, but that did not stop her from trying to destroy our family

Posts: 1396 | Registered: Dec 2012
heroclone
New Member
Member # 41708
Default  Posted: 10:50 PM, May 23rd (Friday)

I understand how you feel right now. It sucks and you shouldn't have to go through it.

You shouldn't be concerned with her actions right now, she should be concerned with yours. She should have her copy of complete-yet-unfiled D papers in her hand. She's not going to take you or this relationship seriously until that point. She still might not take it seriously at that point.


Posts: 8 | Registered: Dec 2013
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 6:29 PM, May 26th (Monday)

It's been a pretty good weekend. We have refrained from talking about relationship stuff as planned. I think we're supposed to talk tonight. I will if she wants to. Per the 180, I shouldn't push for it, so I won't.

She is still listening to a lot of country music while idling and then changing the station to something else when she gets home. That still sounds ominous.

There was a call on her call log to him yesterday, but when I investigated further, she aparently called and immediately hung up before connecting. So it was probably a mistake, but I'm still wondering how. On the plus side, she doesn't seem to be savvy enough to delete bits off her call log so that will be another tool. Next time we talk, I'll ask about any contact or attempted contact and see where that leads.

Again, this is a bit of a journal. Please respond as you like.


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 6:50 PM, May 26th (Monday)

I would not bet the call to him was a mistake at all. Listening to music he likes, changing the station when she gets home, and then the call to his number . I'd say it sounds ominous . Certainly no indication she is thinking of you.

If there is supposed to be no contact, why does she not have new phone number that he does not know. If his number gets dialed again, do you think that will be a co incidence.

Why the 180 at this point. Detaching and giving her space is not what you should do. The discussions should be when you want, not her. She is the bad guy here, not you.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 8:33 PM, May 26th (Monday)

Next time we talk, I'll ask about any contact or attempted contact and see where that leads.
Ask the questions you already know the answers to. But when she lies, do not let her know that you know she is lying. Do not let on that you know a great deal more.

What concerns me about calling him and then hanging up right away. That could be some signal to him. HE would see the incoming name most likely.

They could be communicating another way.

Do not let on you know all about this, keep watching and learning.


Posts: 4101 | Registered: Jun 2002
saturnpatrick
Member
Member # 35989
Default  Posted: 2:24 AM, May 27th (Tuesday)

Oh man. You remind me so much of me. My WW did and said all the same bull. Everyone that posted on my thread when I was here was right. It was already PA. She was playing me. The worst is I defended her until the bitter end even as everyone here tried to tell me what was going on.

This woman is controlling and manipulating you. I think you really know what is going on. I also think you are trying to convince yourself it isn't what you know it is. Why? I don't know. Maybe it is easier for you to believe it isn't as bad as it seems. I say this because you remind me so damn much of myself.

Long kiss on the way to the airport? I would bet the house she had her hands in his pants, or at least she was measuring him up. And no, i'm not talking about measuring his biceps.

Please see a divorce lawyer. Please take control of the situation -- you cannot control both of you but you can control your own destiny. You can do this by making decisions and let her react to your decisions -- not the other way around. The lawyer is a great start for this.

Please. I'm triggering like hell just watching her play you the way my WW played me.


BH
I typo therefore I edit.

Posts: 196 | Registered: Jun 2012
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Sad  Posted: 7:17 AM, May 27th (Tuesday)

Changing the radio station? Reminds me of being a teenager and making sure I changed from FM to AM and turning the volume down low so Dad wouldn't know id been jamming in his car to loud music. Very deliberate for me and likely as deliberate for her. She called, then changed her mind. So, it's clear she's thinking of him, not you,when commuting. Is OM on sped dial or the like? Hard to make a mistake if you must press 10 numbers to make a call. Or was it a "reply" call?

You were always on my mind, by Willie Nelson. An old country song.

Keep cool and keep her guessing about your intentions. You can see the futility of being nice in a few long posts here. And more than a few women here have commented that women respect dominant men, not wimps.


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 8:10 AM, May 27th (Tuesday)

So we talked last night. She did tell me about the call saying it was a butt dial. Not sure that's totally true but at least she did tell me about it.

Not much was resolved. We talked about boundaries going forward. Basically she feels that ad long as we don't fall in love or have sex with someone then it's ok. Hmm. I don't think I could live like that.

Something else weird. It sounds like she's rewriting history in regards to the previous affair. She thinks it was just an EA when I know for a fact it was both an EA and PA. Her mom was the queen of revisionist history. It just makes me worried that she actually believes this.


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
10yearsafter
Member
Member # 43139
Default  Posted: 8:16 AM, May 27th (Tuesday)

What happened with the other affair did you catch her or did she confess. Given her track record she should not have male friends. Has she really agreed to no contact.

Posts: 202 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 8:33 AM, May 27th (Tuesday)

Back then I had a feeling and I found an email. She slowly fessed up to various points including that they were physical.

She has agreed to no contact while we work on things. I believe her plan is to resume a friendship with him once we are reconciled. I'm not sure ill ever be ok with that but at least that gives me the advantage of time. It hasn't been a week and I can tell its really bothering her. Yes that sounds weak. Its the hand I've been dealt.


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 8:34 AM, May 27th (Tuesday)

Can't Trust Her

So, basically, she is telling you that she is NOT accepting your boundaries that you need to rebuild trust, that she will continue to flirt and establish relationships with other men as when she feels like it, and you are to just accept it will not lead to PA, and she has already just told you that she rejects your appraisal of this current situation.

After what she told you, do you really believe that call was an accident??? She told you because she knows you are watching her, although not to the extent that you are. Basically, she is NOT agreeing to NC with this guy

There is no concern about what you think and what you want or need. If you can accept that, you will be living each day just waiting for the "hammer" to drop on you again.

She is in Disneyland, especially when you add the nonsense about her previous "A".


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 8:51 AM, May 27th (Tuesday)

She thinks it was just an EA when I know for a fact it was both an EA and PA.

Did you call her out on it? Did you say Bullshit. I know for a fact that you did? You absolutely have to call out this stuff. If you don't she will happily continue to believe her bullshit, and then when things go south it will be your fault (according to her).

She is still in fog land. She is still justifying, and minimizing her actions. When you have these talks have you asked her how she would feel if you had done similar things, or acted as she has? If she tells you she would be ok with it, she is lying, or really is lost in unicorn land.

Stand up for yourself. Let this stuff make you angry. You have every right to be.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8687 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 9:02 AM, May 27th (Tuesday)

I have called her on the PA stuff on she previous affair every time sue has said this.

The more I think about it the more I'm sure. I can't be in a marriage where the only boundaries are love and sex.


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 9:05 AM, May 27th (Tuesday)

Basically she feels that ad long as we don't fall in love or have sex with someone then it's ok.
That would be okay in a marriage where there is total trust and no history of affairs.

And she has proven she does not know boundaries at all.

She thinks it was just an EA when I know for a fact it was both an EA and PA.
Do you have anything written by her from the past where she said anything concerning a PA. If so, just lay that out on the table in front of her the next time you talk. And tell her that rewriting history is the same as lying.

I believe her plan is to resume a friendship with him once we are reconciled.
Nope, not with the way she has crossed the boundary already.

But this is just your guess at this time, but probably a pretty good guess.

Just my opinion, she is showing no regards to your feelings at all, zero. She doesn't get it at all how this is tearing you apart, she only cares about what she feels and who she can talk to.

One day she will forget to change the FM channel, and you can get into the car and ask her why the hell the car radio is on the CW station.

Until then, keep listening and watching.

OH, about the butt dial. The only way that could happen is if the guy's number is still in her memory or speed dial. She can't even get that out of her phone, you should help her do that.

Make it so her excuses are not that easy.


Posts: 4101 | Registered: Jun 2002
LoveEndures2014
New Member
Member # 43528
Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, May 27th (Tuesday)

I agree if she is deleting text then that means she has something to hide and I'm not sure of the best approach but you have to take a stand bc they keep doing this crap to us bc we let them...If we never stand then they will keep doing it...it's stupid but like a kid they will try to get away with as much as they can...

And you can not let that man stay in your house...that is a major no no and she knows that!

Wish you luck on your talk with her but think about what your going to say before you say it..have a plan.


Posts: 13 | Registered: May 2014 | From: United States
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 9:50 AM, May 27th (Tuesday)

Here's the text I sent her. There has been no reply.

" I've been thinking a lot about what you said last night. We need to talk again tonight after the girls go down."

I hope she.stews in it all day.


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 9:56 AM, May 27th (Tuesday)

This could force her to tip her hand. So listen carefully and watch her phone today.

The bottom line is that she cannot have a boyfriend and a husband at the same time.

She cannot take forever making up her mind.

And she has yet to realize the magnitude of affairs and has yet to learn about herself and how she handles boundaries.


Posts: 4101 | Registered: Jun 2002
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, May 27th (Tuesday)

You got it right. She will be "stewing". The problem is when you talk you have to keep her stewing.

I honestly think at some point, maybe not yet, you are going to have to confront her with what you know or she is going to continue to play this cat and mouse game with you talking in generalities and ending each discussion on a "non agreement mode" All that does is still leave you in detective mode.

Take a gander at the thread on JFO "Unthinkable". After two weeks of the basic same attitude, he found an e mail, confronted her, filed for D and then she broke down and is climbing or beginning to climb off the fence. But he now is at least playing offense, not defense.

She will keep deflecting your arguments, and as you said, she thinks she will let this cool off and then restart communication with him. Until she believes that ain't happening while she is living with you, she will drive you crazy.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
10yearsafter
Member
Member # 43139
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, May 27th (Tuesday)

So you caught her before and gave her the gift of R. She has done the same thing and you won't put your foot down. You will be destined to repeat this story again unless you show her you will not accept this behavior. Get divorce papers and say stop or get out. No more secrets no more BS. She need to show you she wants to be in your marriage. Dude stop pussy footing around and do something.

Posts: 202 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
CanITrustHer
New Member
Member # 43204
Default  Posted: 2:34 PM, May 27th (Tuesday)

So she seems to be freaking out. I won't give her any details over text. The petty side of my is cheering.


44 and 44
Two kids, 10 and 7
She had an affair in 2001
I'm trying to figure out the extent of her current "relationship"
In MC. Trying to heal.

Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 2:45 PM, May 27th (Tuesday)

You should be cheering. You are tilting the scales back towards your side. But when the talking starts is where you need to lower the boom. I would flat out tell her that what you said that if she thinks she is going to revive this relationship that you might as well get divorced now. Tell her you do not believe she did not have sex with him on the ski trip( even if you are not sure you may bluff it out of her if you get her mad enough), that it outrageous to invite him into your home and run your nose on it, and that it just ain't happening any more.

If you get the preliminary ad papers and hand them to her, you will get your answers which you need or you will be hiring PI s all over the country when she races if you agree to let her leave which I can't believe you would right now

How has your intimacy been?? If not too good, then where is her mind???


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 2:50 PM, May 27th (Tuesday)

Your message to her should be simple and direct.

I had a few simple must haves to continue being married. First, immediate and permanent no contact with OM. Starting now. You compose an email which I'll review telling him this. Not a goodbye my love letter, either. One that tells him you know what you were doing was wrong and hurtful beyond compare to my husband and family.

Second, absolute and continued openness with cel, computer, email. She has broken trust, and openness will allow you to start rebuilding trust. She needs a new phone number and email address, too.

Third, the marriage as she knew it is over. Because of broken trust. She will not continue to be as free as before. Goodbye trips without you, for instance.

Fourth, no more lies. Or half truths.

It's her choice,,subject to these conditions

If she won't agree, you know where your marriage is.


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 1:56 PM, May 29th (Thursday)

Can'T Trust Her

You still with us. How did the talk go????


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, May 30th (Friday)

I re-read some of your posts. I feel that there is one issue to be decided. Do you want a marriage with more than two people in it? Does she?

Unless you come to agreement on this, at best you will face chronic disagreements and at worst will eventually divorce.

How did your recent discussion go? Anything resolved?


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 5:26 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday)

Looks like OP has decided to just put up with it. If anything good had happened i believe he would have come back.

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Topic Posts: 164