SurvivingInfidelity.com Forums
Wayward Side
User Topic: Supportive Voices
brokeback
Member
Member # 41726
Default  Posted: 2:56 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

I felt it was necessary to post this on the board. As a new member, but very mature person, I feel as though I've seen some members come off as harsh, or sarcastic and definitely not what the Forum's message depicts.

I am new here, but not new to on-line support groups and I feel that I am not being sensitive here. This is my opinion. I ask that before you post on someone's thread, please check in with yourself and your language. We don't need to kick others when they are already down. When that happens, people stop listening.

I think this is a great place to get support and help for many and most people are helpful and kind, but on occasion someone's response to another poster comes off as offensive or crass and it's just not necessary. I'm all for hard cold truth, but there's a way to deliver a strong message without coming across as bitter or angry.

Just my two cents as the new kid on the block. If it doesn't apply, let it fly.

Surviving Infidelity is your safe place to come and share your pain and feeling of isolation upon discovery of betrayal. All are welcome here, even the betraying partner, provided they are remorseful and committed to healing. Please use this site to network with others who are feeling a loss of hope and shattered dreams and trying to survive the most painful type of betrayal we all have unfortunately come to know.

We ask all members to please follow our code of showing respect, patience and compassion through this very difficult time you all are facing.

[This message edited by brokeback at 2:57 PM, April 24th (Thursday)]


ME 43
BS 38
1 Child 3 years old
Married 18 years
DDay - 10/2013. EA 9 months. PA 4 months. Ended the affair 11/2014



Posts: 69 | Registered: Dec 2013
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 3:19 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

What I appreciate about SI is the Moderators. They protect us. If things get out of hand, they take care of it.

I use an example not to call people out, but show you that every method, every voice is heard. Just maybe not by the same people or in the same way.

Floridaredman and HUFI are gentle giants. I have seen them both be flowery and eloquent with words. I have seen passive, whiney WS cry and complain, and not hear what they had to say. And I have also seen the most bone-headed, obnoxious WS stop and *hear* what they are saying.

20Wrongs doesn't sugar coat. She's not flowery. She's loud, proud, and assertive. I have seen bone-headed, obnoxious WS stomp off all hot under the collar. And I have seen super passive, whiney WS *hear* her.

See every voice, no matter the style, is needed here. Different people accept different communication. What works for you may not work for me. And vice versa. That's the beauty in individuality. Each difference voice that speaks has the power to jolt a person out of Unicorn Land.

I appreciate everyone here. The loud and proud. And the gentle giants. We need them all.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6236 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
brokeback
Member
Member # 41726
Default  Posted: 3:28 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

Thanks for that.

I want to stick around. I think it's important for my journey and I believe I can offer support.

It's hard for me to swallow when I feel others are not as compassionate as we ought to be.

My issue?

It was just meant for a reminder to check in with ourselves. I agree that every voice is important. We all have something to add. My fear is if it's being heard or not.

I guess what matters is if I'm hearing it or not.

Another...Ah,ha...see, they keep coming. :)


ME 43
BS 38
1 Child 3 years old
Married 18 years
DDay - 10/2013. EA 9 months. PA 4 months. Ended the affair 11/2014



Posts: 69 | Registered: Dec 2013
BrokenButTrying
Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 3:30 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

I agree with Aubrie.

We need all those voices. Every newbie is different and each will find a different approach helpful.

I tend to be quite blunt, sarcastic and to the point. It comes from a good place though.

"Take what's helpful and leave the rest" and all that jazz. The mods do an awesome job.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1235 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
20WrongsVs1
Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 5:10 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

brokeback, you''re saying some posters "come across" as bitter, crass, harsh or sarcastic. Are you willing to consider the possibility that you may be projecting? Most members'' intentions are noble, and they don''t post spuriously, even though their communication styles widely differ.

((Aubrie)) Thanks for bumping DS''s "Judgment in Replies??" thread. From that, brilliantly stated:

MissesJai: When your head is that far up your ass, anything that doesn''t fall in line with your fucked up thinking is an "attack" or a "judgment". I''m straight, no chaser because I know that''s what it took for me to wake up. No sugar coating, no coddling, none of that - just truth. Some folks just ain''t ready to hear it.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1185 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
brokeback
Member
Member # 41726
Default  Posted: 5:35 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

If I believed I was projecting, I'd accept that.

Seems like I struck a nerve, when my intent was just to have ppl check themselves before posting. I meant no disrespect.

I did say I believe most ppl are well intended here. I understand that the long time posters feel a sense of pride in the online community that has given support and encouragement in the darkest of times. I get that.

Sometimes it's the new set of eyes that helps us see we can be better or not.

It's not a personal attack on anyone here. Just a mere observation and suggestion. No harm was intended.


ME 43
BS 38
1 Child 3 years old
Married 18 years
DDay - 10/2013. EA 9 months. PA 4 months. Ended the affair 11/2014



Posts: 69 | Registered: Dec 2013
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Default  Posted: 5:41 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

brokeback...

I think your message was clear and honorable, they are afterall, your feelings and it's so important to always give them a voice.

For me personally...I think there is a healthy balance of some of the more gentle posters and some of the not so gentle posters I like the way things flow here, but that's just me and obviously I pretty biased

I'm glad you felt secure and strong enough to start this thread and express yourself!! I hope others join in with their opinions and observations as well


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 197809 | Registered: May 2002
20WrongsVs1
Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 5:49 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

Seems like I struck a nerve

Huh? I''m confused. Typically this phrase is employed when responses are argumentative or defensive. Is that the tone you detected in Aubrie, BBT or me? I''m genuinely curious to know how the responses landed with you.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1185 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
Alyssamd24
Member
Member # 39005
Default  Posted: 5:58 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

Brokeback,
I understand what you are saying and respect the message you are trying to get out. I went back and looked at some of your posts and think that you are very supportive to other members, and try to offer your empathy. For many people that is exactly the support they need. On some of my own posts you have responded, and I appreciate the warmth and support you have offered

Since I have been on SI I have posted many times and have gotten plenty of feedback from veteran SI members...many of whom have used an approach opposite of yours....they have been blunt, sarcastic, and full of tough love. These replies have also helped me because they have made me see things from other views and have helped me really focus on things I wouldn't have.

In my case both approaches have been extremely helpful, and many of the people who were once really harsh to me have been a wonderful support to me.

I just wanted to share my story and let you know how both approaches have helped me!


"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"

Posts: 844 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Massachusetts
brokeback
Member
Member # 41726
Default  Posted: 6:03 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

Thank you for that.

Some ppl appreciate the tough love approach and others will high tail out of here.

Just a check in suggestion.



ME 43
BS 38
1 Child 3 years old
Married 18 years
DDay - 10/2013. EA 9 months. PA 4 months. Ended the affair 11/2014



Posts: 69 | Registered: Dec 2013
sunnyrain
Member
Member # 30164
Default  Posted: 6:07 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

Hi brokeback,

I appreciate your fresh eyes and want to thank you for your well-intentioned feedback.

I've been here off-and-on since 2010, and like you, when I first arrived I noticed a certain "harshness" in some replies. At first, I was puzzled as to why it even seemed to get under my skin because I'm generally not bothered by strong voiced individuals.

What I've since realized is that it isn't so much the "tone" of SI that I sometimes find bothersome (say it loud, say it soft = NBD), but rather the underlying current of only one "right" way of thinking, feeling, doing, or answering. A sort of get-it-right or we'll-beat-it-into-you-until-you-do kind of thing.

IDK, I mean I got the bumper sticker, but it's still sitting in the kitchen drawer.

Anyway, good to see you here, and thanks for sharing!


"I'm not much into health food, I am into champagne."

Posts: 382 | Registered: Nov 2010
BaxtersBFF
Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 6:28 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

Chiming in...

I did say I believe most ppl are well intended here. I understand that the long time posters feel a sense of pride in the online community that has given support and encouragement in the darkest of times.

I would say all people here are supportive. It really is just the different voices on SI. Many of us can read responses and "know" who the poster is without looking at the name, just because of their voice. On every post, especially in the Wayward forum, there will be a voice that the OP responds to. We all give it our best shot, because we are all trying to be helpful. Someone usually breaks through, whether the response sounds harsh or not, and that's just the way it works.

I don't believe any of us are ever trying to chase anyone off. We are just trying to break through a barrier that the majority of new folks seem to have when they come here. When it comes down to it, the people who aren't ready will end up leaving or responding in such a way that they get banned...so the problem sort of sorts itself out...

Seriously though, I appreciate that you've stuck around and have already started contributing. That is what make SI work. So, Thank you brokeback.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6099 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
brokeback
Member
Member # 41726
Default  Posted: 6:34 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

Okay, so I'm not completely blind :)

I've been on other online support communities and I've seen a sharp contrast in cultures and acceptance in voices that appear at times bitter, resentful, and angry.

Yes, I've have already caught the "right" way to be vibe or we'll beat it into you approach. It's been painful to witness at times.

Funny thing is I'm a former police officer and social worker turned educator, so I have evolved my approach to reaching people. Humor, honesty, mixed with compassion and understanding go along way in my book.

But that's just me...


ME 43
BS 38
1 Child 3 years old
Married 18 years
DDay - 10/2013. EA 9 months. PA 4 months. Ended the affair 11/2014



Posts: 69 | Registered: Dec 2013
Alyssamd24
Member
Member # 39005
Default  Posted: 6:42 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

T/j.

Thats a pretty impressive resume....police officer, social worker, and educator! !!

You definitely have experience working with the community!

End of random t/j


"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"

Posts: 844 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Massachusetts
brokeback
Member
Member # 41726
Default  Posted: 6:50 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

And from RI.

Just noticed we are neighbors


ME 43
BS 38
1 Child 3 years old
Married 18 years
DDay - 10/2013. EA 9 months. PA 4 months. Ended the affair 11/2014



Posts: 69 | Registered: Dec 2013
authenticnow
Moderator
Member # 16024
Default  Posted: 7:33 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

Brokeback,

It might also be the nature of the site. I've been on a quit smoking board and that got pretty nasty but that's because there was absolutely no moderating on there at all. It was a free for all.

On here, if you consider that we're talking about cheating, it's safe to assume that people's emotions run at their highest and are very passionate at most moments of posting.

It's very tough for waywards who are 'on the other side' to sit back and watch others who just come on self destructing. But I do agree that it's always better to be kind. Sometimes it's just hard to get the message across kindly when the topic is so emotional. Also, what's kind to one is not necessarily kind to another. Sometimes being kind is telling it like it is, no sugarcoating.


Take up your space (and do it well).

"That's the thing about pain, it demands to be felt."


Posts: 37620 | Registered: Sep 2007
brokeback
Member
Member # 41726
Default  Posted: 7:48 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

I thank everyone for responding.

I tend to speak my mind and try to be as honest as I can, and this was just something I felt I needed to share.

I realized by offering my observations and thoughts on the matter, I was putting myself out on a limb. I do feel safe enough to share my thoughts here and I also knew I would find out pretty quickly based on the responses if this was the right forum for me; one that respects everyone's opinon's whether they agree with them or not.

I'd like to stick around. Thanks to all for chiming in.



ME 43
BS 38
1 Child 3 years old
Married 18 years
DDay - 10/2013. EA 9 months. PA 4 months. Ended the affair 11/2014



Posts: 69 | Registered: Dec 2013
20WrongsVs1
Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 7:58 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

brokeback, sincerely, I''m curious about what you''re trying to convey here, so I''m going to practice "active listening" to see if I''m receiving what you''re sending.

there''s a way to deliver a strong message without coming across as bitter or angry.

Communication is a two-way street. Just because a message "comes across" as bitter or angry, that''s not necessarily the fault of the messenger. Sometimes we perceive offense where there is none, due to our own filters. Would you agree?

You''re seeing a pattern on SI of bitterness, anger, and resentment. That''s your perspective, so it''s not wrong for you, but personally I''m not seeing it. This topic is one that comes up frequently on SI, and it''s fascinating to me, to see how people can perceive the same thing in such vastly different ways.

Yes, I''ve have already caught the "right" way to be vibe or we''ll beat it into you approach. It''s been painful to witness at times.

Ironic, since you seem to be indicating that...

Humor, honesty, mixed with compassion and understanding

...is a more "evolved" approach than other communication styles.

Maybe I''m misinterpreting you, and I welcome the correction. It seems like you''re saying that your communication style is "move evolved" and therefore superior, and that you''re qualified to judge others'' communication styles due to your maturity and professional experience. Am I getting that right?


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1185 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
brokeback
Member
Member # 41726
Default  Posted: 8:11 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

I'm in no way superior to anyone here.

You are really taking what I'm saying the wrong way and putting me on the defensive, which is not where I want to be at all.

My observations are just that, mine. And I really don't want to get into a tit for tat w you over this. I'm sensing that no matter what I say to you, we could go on and on all night disagreeing and trying to prove to the other their POV.

Seems most people understand where I'm coming from. I'm really sorry if you don't.

It was a simple reminder to be kinder.


ME 43
BS 38
1 Child 3 years old
Married 18 years
DDay - 10/2013. EA 9 months. PA 4 months. Ended the affair 11/2014



Posts: 69 | Registered: Dec 2013
Unagie
Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 8:16 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

I appreciate your approach Brokeback but for waywards like me I needed tough love. That is what got through to me those messages that made me flinch. The coddling and the sweet made me feel like I was getting ego kibbles from a different source and it made me feel worse. I had some pretty hard 2x4's wielded at me, Aubrie swung a few, so did missesjai and walkingoneggshellz. All are straight talking honest folks that wanted to help. I was only able to accept the advice of our gentler members like Hufi, floridaredman and baxtersbff after I had a few bruises. I think a lot come here thinking unless they fall in line to the same thinking it will be beat into them. Not so. Do you know how many members want me to leave where I am in any way shape or form? All of them know I want to leave with no debts and in a solid financial place. Being here means continued contact with xSO that is stretching my hurt because I am horrible at the 180. Not one has turned away because I dont follow the majority. I am still supported.

As a newbie your thoughts and words are just as important as the vets. I have been here since Oct 2012 and I am in no way a vet but I've been told my words made a difference and I tend to not hold punches. To each his own, this works because we are all so different.

[This message edited by Unagie at 8:17 PM, April 24th (Thursday)]


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

"To be loyal to myself is to allow myself to grow and change, and challenge who I am and what I think."


Posts: 2742 | Registered: Oct 2012
brokeback
Member
Member # 41726
Default  Posted: 8:20 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

By saying more evolved, I meant my own personal style of communication.

I went from police officer, shouting and bossing and telling ppl what to do, to social worker to educator. My communication skills have evolved over the years, not more evolved than anyone's here.


ME 43
BS 38
1 Child 3 years old
Married 18 years
DDay - 10/2013. EA 9 months. PA 4 months. Ended the affair 11/2014



Posts: 69 | Registered: Dec 2013
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 8:23 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

Oh for the love of humanity.

We all speak different ways. We all have different styles. This is an infidelity website. Emotions run high. Some of us are just now finding our voices and "eloquence" fails us. Doesn't mean the heart isn't in the right place. Tough love, mushy love, pick your poison. Nobody is out to get anyone else. Take what you need, leave the rest.

Someone pass me marshmalllow. Its time to sing Kumbaya.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6236 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Default  Posted: 8:25 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

Oh for the love of humanity.

Rough day babe?


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 197809 | Registered: May 2002
brokeback
Member
Member # 41726
Default  Posted: 8:26 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

Exactly, like I said, if it does apply, let it fly...

Pretty sure that was said in the original post.

For the love of god is right...


ME 43
BS 38
1 Child 3 years old
Married 18 years
DDay - 10/2013. EA 9 months. PA 4 months. Ended the affair 11/2014



Posts: 69 | Registered: Dec 2013
Unagie
Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 8:27 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

^^^^^^

Here ya go


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

"To be loyal to myself is to allow myself to grow and change, and challenge who I am and what I think."


Posts: 2742 | Registered: Oct 2012
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 8:28 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

Well looks like DS wore her sassy pants today.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6236 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Default  Posted: 8:29 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

I still fit in them and they look goooood!


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 197809 | Registered: May 2002
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Default  Posted: 8:30 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

brokeback...

It's all ok...we really do understand and appreciate your voice


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 197809 | Registered: May 2002
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 8:30 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

I still fit in them and they look goooood!

[This message edited by Aubrie at 8:31 PM, April 24th (Thursday)]


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6236 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
brokeback
Member
Member # 41726
Default  Posted: 8:33 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

No worries, I feel the love and can see how mature and well adjusted you are.

Forum should say...newbies, shut up, keep still, kiss our ass, we are queens, you are shit...welcome, bend over and take it.


ME 43
BS 38
1 Child 3 years old
Married 18 years
DDay - 10/2013. EA 9 months. PA 4 months. Ended the affair 11/2014



Posts: 69 | Registered: Dec 2013
20WrongsVs1
Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 8:36 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

Wow.

If only we all could be so mature and evolved as you. Thanks for modeling that for us.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1185 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
BaxtersBFF
Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 8:37 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

newbies, shut up, keep still, kiss our ass, we are queens, you are shit...welcome, bend over and take it.
It's funny when the newbies try telling that to the old-timers...


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6099 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
brokeback
Member
Member # 41726
Default  Posted: 8:42 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

You are a band of bullies. How very sad.

Truth hurts. There's issues with your "so called" safe place.

What a joke this site is. Pathetic really.


ME 43
BS 38
1 Child 3 years old
Married 18 years
DDay - 10/2013. EA 9 months. PA 4 months. Ended the affair 11/2014



Posts: 69 | Registered: Dec 2013
Unagie
Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 8:42 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

newbies, shut up, keep still, kiss our ass, we are queens, you are shit...welcome, bend over and take it.

Where in the hell did you get that!? Funny I felt like everyone here was expressing opinion somehow it went from engaging conversation to a widely painted insult to what I am assuming is pointed to the female waywards posting to you. I'll take this time to bow out of this thread. Good luck.

[This message edited by Unagie at 8:43 PM, April 24th (Thursday)]


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

"To be loyal to myself is to allow myself to grow and change, and challenge who I am and what I think."


Posts: 2742 | Registered: Oct 2012
bionicgal
Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 8:43 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

It wasn't just me! I felt this weird undercurrent with this thread. . . and then Blamo!

I am a BS, and I think most of the the waywards here are just incredible;I have learned a ton. And, there are some really fine writers as well. For a public forum on a emotionally loaded topic, I can't believe it is as positive as it is.


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is more like a mental break than a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 1968 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 8:44 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

Forum should say...newbies, shut up, keep still, kiss our ass, we are queens, you are shit...welcome, bend over and take it.
Hooo boy. I'm sorry you see it that way. It couldn't be further from the truth. But I don't think anyone can convince you otherwise brokeback.

I don't know what you want here brokeback. You want everyone to be gentle. To who's version? Yours? Who calls the shots? This is a community of many voices. If you don't like it, that's on you. Not anyone else.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6236 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
sunnyrain
Member
Member # 30164
Default  Posted: 9:01 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

Brokeback,

If I don't see you around, I wish you and your family the very best of luck in your recovery.

Stay strong!


"I'm not much into health food, I am into champagne."

Posts: 382 | Registered: Nov 2010
BaxtersBFF
Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 9:01 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

Man...the thread starts out pretty cool, then gets cooler, it seems like we're all on the same page, then some humor, then something that seem like it could be tongue in cheek, and now this? What the hell happened to "take what you need and leave the rest"?

Sorry things took a turn. I'll bow out.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6099 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
Deeply Scared
Administrator
Member # 2
Default  Posted: 9:04 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

It's a mystery to me too Baxter.

I thought everyone was giving Brokeback a voice and place, color me stupid


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 197809 | Registered: May 2002
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 9:06 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

Brokeback,

I am curious as to what it is exactly you need for others to see here?


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4884 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 9:07 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

Brokeback,

I am curious as to what it is exactly you need for others to see here?


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4884 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Tickingtock
Member
Member # 41411
Default  Posted: 9:14 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

I have always seen SI as a counterweight to normal culture and our everyday lives.

Society tells us that it's okay to cheat if it's with the one who got away (The Notebook), that we should cheat because life is short (Ashley Madison), sometimes we don't find our soul mates right away (Bradjolina), it's okay as long as it's meaningless (craigslist, strip clubs, hookers), it's okay as long as it's meaningful (Alicia on The Goodwife), even good significant others cheat (Upside Down by Diana Ross), infidelity can be romantic (The Pina Colada Song), and of course, there's the conventional wisdom that if you're a man cheating is normal (because you're a man), and that if you're a woman cheating is okay (because your husband must not be fulfilling you). In other words there are hundreds of sources that support wayward thinking.

Even the relationships around us can reinforce narcissism and self-gratifying pleasure-seeking. The facebook "friends" who tell you what a special flower you are because you look hot in a selfie, the friend who tells you that you should be happy and if your spouse isn't satisfying your needs then you deserve more, your friend finding out she's the OW and then forgiving the man because he didn't mean to hurt his current spouse, the acquaintance who goes home with women from bars but only when his wife is out of town, the boss who is sleeping with her married employee.... There is no shortage of this in our everyday lives.

As a result, I think that some people come here expecting similar reinforcement. But that is not what they need. They need someone to tell them, in no uncertain terms, that they are on a path to destruction and are not living authentically (I love AN's explanation for how she picked her screen name).

Therefore, SI veterans often assume that you have plenty of influences in your everyday life that set the stage for your infidelity in the first place. And this website would not exist if wayward thinking simply needed to be supported, because there is enough of that already.


Me: 31, exBGF, now married

Posts: 173 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: West Coast, USA
jo2love
Moderator
Member # 31528
Red  Posted: 9:22 PM, April 24th (Thursday)

Everyone -

Brokeback is stepping away for a bit. Please wait to post until she returns.

Thank you.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 9:26 PM, April 24th (Thursday)]


Posts: 35249 | Registered: Mar 2011
brokeback
Member
Member # 41726
Default  Posted: 7:14 AM, April 26th (Saturday)

Yeah, the thread started out cool, then got cooler.

In the beginning, I clearly stated it was a mere observation that at times, ppl seem to respond when they are angry, hurt or feel bitterness.

My intent of this post was to simply ask ppl to check in with themselves befor posting on someone's thread. Bc whether they are aware of it or not, their words may inflict more harm if not delivered with care and sensitivity and thought. And, I do think there are a good many of you who do that genuinely and beautifully. I also have seen the exact opposite.

I came here as someone who has lived through the affair. I have been through the roller coaster, and some days continue to ride if need be. I have gone inward, I have accepted my failures as a human, I have repented, I am remorseful. But I am also beautiful and proud, and loving and fun and courageous, and humbled and grateful.

To me, whether you have one post, 300 posts, 5000 posts or 19,000 posts, our voices count. More posts does not make anyone better than anyone; wiser or more experienced and along in the journey, perhaps - perhaps not.

I got PO'd bc I was put on the defensive to explain why I thought the way I did...and no matter how I tried to explain myself, the need for clarity from certain folks grew. It couldn't just be accepted for what it was.

I'm not here to defend myself in anyway for anyone.

The marshmallows and kumbha and jokes about what I was trying to say put my over the edge and did feel like bullying and belittling.

I thank all of you who saw my true intent. I appreciate those of you who understood where I was coming from and who perhaps have felt very similarly at times.

Someone said that this topic comes up a lot. I say if it comes up a lot, could it be there's an issue; a undertone of meaness at times?

If I wanted to be disrespected on Facebook, I'd be on Facebook. This is a support group, maybe I expect too much. I have zero tolerance for it in my life. I have even less tolerance for it when I see someone struggling and hurting, and then someone else comes in and pours salt of their open wounds or kicks them when they are already down. We know how dark this journey is, how fragile and lost and terrified everyone is who finds themselves here. I expect those who have BTDT to understand the depths of their words. Bc if it is delivered with coldness or carelessness, who knows how the receiver feels and what they do next.


ME 43
BS 38
1 Child 3 years old
Married 18 years
DDay - 10/2013. EA 9 months. PA 4 months. Ended the affair 11/2014



Posts: 69 | Registered: Dec 2013
SlowUptake
Member
Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 8:28 AM, April 26th (Saturday)

It's nice to see you have returned brokeback.
I admire your maturity.

I have respect for your POV on how responses to posters should be "delivered with care and sensitivity and thought".

However I get the impression you don't have much respect or tolerance for the tough love, hard truth delivery method.

My POV is there is room for both and both are valid.

Unfortunately we don't have the luxury that IC's and therapists have of hour long sessions with individuals to determine the most effective method of communication to achieve the best outcome.

We get a few lines or a few paragraphs if we're lucky.
Most WS's don't put anything in their profile.
Coupled with the fact that a (large?)proportion of 'newbies' are in the habit of minimising and outright lying to themselves as well as the rest of the world.

Some of us adopt a 'softly, softly' approach, others favour the 'tough love' approach.
We leave it up to the original poster to determine which approach works best for them.
The onus is on them to filter what they feel is not helpful in their particular situation.
The "Take what you need, leave the rest" system.

There were a number of replies in this post and other similar posts from WSs who emphatically state that they appreciated and needed the 'tough love' when they arrived at SI. It worked for them, whereas the 'softly, softly' didn't.

I get the feeling you are dismissive of this outcome and it's validity.

In closing I repeat, I respect your POV, I just disagree it's the only way to achieve results.

Peace

[This message edited by SlowUptake at 8:40 AM, April 26th (Saturday)]


Me:WS,50+
Her:BS,50+ (WantToWakeUp)
Married 33yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.


Posts: 390 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
brokeback
Member
Member # 41726
Default  Posted: 8:52 AM, April 26th (Saturday)

Thanks.

I heard the voices of those who are grateful of the tough love approach.

I'm a believer in that approach as well, as long as it comes from a place that is genuine and not outrageously mean.

I'm moving on. I've said my peace on this topic and would like to focus my attention on helping others and growing more in the healing process.

Thank you again.


ME 43
BS 38
1 Child 3 years old
Married 18 years
DDay - 10/2013. EA 9 months. PA 4 months. Ended the affair 11/2014



Posts: 69 | Registered: Dec 2013
salty_lt2
New Member
Member # 33744
Default  Posted: 9:09 AM, April 26th (Saturday)

I also respect your POV, brokeback. Truly. But here is where some of us waywards *might* have an issue with what you're saying...

I came here as someone who has lived through the affair. I have been through the roller coaster, and some days continue to ride if need be. I have gone inward, I have accepted my failures as a human, I have repented, I am remorseful.

Do you actually feel comfortable saying this a mere 6 months out from your DDay, according to your sig? This almost comes across as "I'm done with my work!"

While you are saying this in a very mature and kind way, the underlying message DOES strike a nerve with me, and likely with others- no matter how "mature" your intentions are. Therefore, one should be careful with how a written message on a forum is interpreted by different individuals, and not assume anything!

JMO, of course.


Posts: 33 | Registered: Oct 2011
floridaredman
Member
Member # 15122
Default  Posted: 9:11 AM, April 26th (Saturday)

Hi brokeback,

Support can come from many ways. In infidelity, support has to be carefully administrated. Waywards who have regret and not remorse really need to hear the truth about the damage they have done. Some have used false justifications to support their decision to stray and some have legitimate issues but neither is justification to step out on the marriage. Some people respond to blunt truth because that's what they want, others respond to gentler methods because they can't take harsh criticism or they are not in a place to receive that kind of "tough love"

All here speak from experience, I don't think it is intended to sound superior or I am better than you. More of, this is what happened to me. I've BTDT, here's what worked for me.

The truth can be hurtful when it's your truth. No one likes to look in the mirror and see the monster they became. Conveying that in " not-so-flowery" responses can be interpreted as crass and uncaring. Yes, some people can go overboard, but I believe their true intent is to help.People in wayward are still working through their problems whether they are veterans or newbies. So keep that in mind also.

The moderators are good here, they will govern when someone has gone too far. They do a good job. If you have an ought with what someone has said that you feel they overlooked, bring it to their attention and they will look into it.


I surmise that you are intelligent, independent and straight-forward. You will meet others here just like you and you may bump heads.

This site is far from a joke..thousands have saved their marriages here. Many of the members here are why those marriages were saved.

It's good to have someone of your character here.
You can help others as other's intent here is to help you.

Take what you need and leave the rest.

[This message edited by floridaredman at 9:14 AM, April 26th (Saturday)]


The simplest thing can be the hardest thing to do....FRM

Posts: 2498 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Florida
brokeback
Member
Member # 41726
Default  Posted: 9:22 AM, April 26th (Saturday)

Thank you.

Your message was thoughtful and well received.

I'm here to help. And to heal as well.

I appreciate the support.

[This message edited by brokeback at 9:23 AM, April 26th (Saturday)]


ME 43
BS 38
1 Child 3 years old
Married 18 years
DDay - 10/2013. EA 9 months. PA 4 months. Ended the affair 11/2014



Posts: 69 | Registered: Dec 2013
SandAway
Member
Member # 37775
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, April 26th (Saturday)

Brokeback, I understand what you originally said and i aso understand (for the most part) what others said. But I feel you were a bit over analyised by having your comments torn up a bit.

We all have different opinions about everything. Please take what you want and leave the rest.

Don't let a few influence your feelings about SI, we are all different yet we all mean well.

Glad you didn't leave.


fWW
BH Tred
M 16yrs
DDay Nov. 2011

Guns don't kill people; Affairs kill people


Posts: 436 | Registered: Dec 2012
brokeback
Member
Member # 41726
Default  Posted: 10:24 AM, April 26th (Saturday)

Thank you.

I'm here and I'm not leaving, as I have too much self-work to do.

I'm thankful for a place that gives each of us a forum to be heard. Truly.

BB


ME 43
BS 38
1 Child 3 years old
Married 18 years
DDay - 10/2013. EA 9 months. PA 4 months. Ended the affair 11/2014



Posts: 69 | Registered: Dec 2013
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, April 26th (Saturday)

Do you feel that people have been to hard on you on your posts?


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4884 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
BrokenButTrying
Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, April 26th (Saturday)

BB,

I understand what you're saying and it is an important message.

I don't need flowery support. There is enough of that in real life, like Ticking said, validation of wayward thinking is everywhere. For me, niceness only enables my destructive behaviour.
I need 2x4's. Prods in the back with a large stick to keep me on the right track, To point out when I'm wandering off and make me get back on. I don't want someone leading me gently along, I want voices yelling at me. It reminds me that I'm strong enough to do this alone.

So, I am proof that we need those voices as well as the gentle ones. Those are the ones I respond to on the threads I start and when I look for advice.

Everyone here is an adult and capable of taking what they need and leaving the rest.

I respect you POV and appreciate you voicing your opinion. I have heard you.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1235 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
Ascendant
Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 10:40 AM, April 26th (Saturday)

I just wanted to add that I think Tickingtock made a great point up there ^^^. I think that as a society we have really trended towards being non-judgmental...and that's certainly a good thing when we're just talking about accepting other's inherent differences, but it's dangerous when it begins to creep towards permissiveness. For a great many WS, a site like this may be the first time that anyone has ever told them that, "Hey, the things you are doing are hurtful and destructive and you need to stop. Just because you think it's OK to do so, and other have told you that as well, doesn't mean that it is" in no uncertain terms. Like Tickingtock said, there are plenty of sources of affirmation for hurtful, selfish behaviors......friends, family, culture.

(I'm not speaking to your situation, Brokeback, just to my experiences in observing new waywards to the forum in general. I don't know if this permissiveness is your experience)

DeeplyScared has said it before, but I think the end goal of SI is individual healing first, and marital healing second, and that holds true for both BS and WS. Destructive behaviors like infidelity are, first and foremost, personally destructive to the person committing them. They leave the black mark of shame on the psyche....and many of our WS live (and struggle) with that every day, and I think efforts to help their fellow WS are coming from a place of honestly trying to spare the new WS further self-harm down the road.

Some posters take a lumber-swinging approach....some take a kinder, gentler approach. It's all about that individual poster being honest about whatever approach feels most authentic to them. They certainly could 'tone it down' if they so chose, but then they're just conforming themselves to meet other's expectations, and my guess is that many of them spent a lifetime trying to be someone they weren't already...and to do that again seems wrong and inauthentic to them...a reversal of much of the self-work that's been put in.

Also, I think SI is a safe place...but it's safe from personal attacks, and from people who haven't lived through your (roughly similar) experiences from commenting on your situation....hence, in the wayward forum the waywards 'get tough' with each other in a way that BS are not generally allowed to with the WS. It's not safe from the calling out of blameshifting and other unhealthy coping mechanisms. Individual healing being the end-goal, unhealthy patterns of thought are going to be pointed out as a necessity. (Again, speaking in general, not to your situation.) Hell, even in the Betrayed Men forum we call each other out if it seems like someone is making excuses for their unremorseful WW.

I think that 99% of the time here on SI, the poster's heart and message, and not necessarily the conversation mannerisms, are what most need to be taken into account....and those are in the right place, usually.

Just my musings. YMMV, take what you need, etc....


I refuse to let a wound ruin me.
**Guts over fear.**

Posts: 2085 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
brokeback
Member
Member # 41726
Default  Posted: 10:47 AM, April 26th (Saturday)

Thank you for weighing in.

I've heard your voices and appreciate where you are coming from. I'm learning in this process...always.



ME 43
BS 38
1 Child 3 years old
Married 18 years
DDay - 10/2013. EA 9 months. PA 4 months. Ended the affair 11/2014



Posts: 69 | Registered: Dec 2013
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 11:19 AM, April 26th (Saturday)

They certainly could 'tone it down' if they so chose, but then they're just conforming themselves to meet other's expectations, and my guess is that many of them spent a lifetime trying to be someone they weren't already...and to do that again seems wrong and inauthentic to them...a reversal of much of the self-work that's been put in.

This ^ and this

hence, in the wayward forum the waywards 'get tough' with each other in a way that BS are not generally allowed to with the WS. It's not safe from the calling out of blameshifting and other unhealthy coping mechanisms. Individual healing being the end-goal, unhealthy patterns of thought are going to be pointed out as a necessity.

are so true of what I have found here in the wayward forum. And I believe it is why I have always felt it was my comfortable place. It was where I knew I would get called out on my shit. Where people would be real with me when no one else was. The wayward forum can be tough, but I feel that often it needs to be. Our thought processes often need to be called out, and we can be defensive of that. Even though this place is tough, it has always felt safe to me. And I believe other waywards feel the same as well.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4884 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, April 26th (Saturday)

It's all about that individual poster being honest about whatever approach feels most authentic to them. They certainly could 'tone it down' if they so chose, but then they're just conforming themselves to meet other's expectations, and my guess is that many of them spent a lifetime trying to be someone they weren't already...and to do that again seems wrong and inauthentic to them...a reversal of much of the self-work that's been put in.
Preach Reverend Ascendant.

I've spent a lifetime of being told I should know better, but was never given the opportunity to try so I would know better. I was supposed to automatically know. Everything. But I didn't. And worse, I didn't have a voice. I conformed to what other individuals wanted in me. I said what would get the least negative reaction. Not what I felt or believed. But what would keep me out of trouble or facing someone's anger and disapproval.

I've since started finding my voice. And sometimes it still shakes. But I will speak my truth. And I don't really care who does/doesn't like it. I don't care who agrees/disagrees with it. I will speak my truth. For someone to suggest or believe I should change for an "ideal"? (And lets be real. There are no "defining lines" in this whole shebang. No single person can claim to have *the* magic formula) No thank you. I've already changed. My convictions are my own, I don't really care what people think I "should" be. I don't mean that snobbily or flippantly. Its JMHO. YMMV


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6236 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Stillstings
Member
Member # 36549
Default  Posted: 4:25 PM, April 26th (Saturday)

If I were a W with her head up her ass I'd fear the posters on this board. Not for fear of judgment but the truth coming from a place of caring and BTDT being passed around.

Some of my betrayed mindset has been changed by the growth and actualization by many FWs here.

Aubrie, Floridaredman, to name a few. The mods and guides, good job to you all.


Love yourself. You're worth it. Face your self. You need to do it.

Posts: 364 | Registered: Aug 2012
KBeguile
Member
Member # 38348
Default  Posted: 6:13 PM, April 26th (Saturday)

First, I would like to echo what some have already said, like Unagie: I desperately needed 2x4s upside the head, downside the head, and to the back and front of my head just to get my head screwed on straight the way it should be. I wasn't inclined to listen to anyone else, and I felt entitled to my own ("correct") opinion. I even made the rookie mistake of trying to go to a meetup shortly after joining, when I still was trying to impress people with my "see how good I'm behaving NOW?" act.

I've been terribly silent on here of late, mostly because I'm working on my pornography addiction and trying to make my family a more functional, cohesive environment. Work, family time, and bonding with Heart (my BW) take up my days and evenings, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

But something in this entire post and its subsequent fallout made me insert my own voice in here. I think we're all arguing for the same approach: that is to say, each person needs to hear something different, and no one needs to feel personally attacked or violated in a way that is undeserved. It is worth noting, however, that Narcissists almost always require some form of "personal attack" to start the process of being introspective -- no amount of polite talking or tenderfooting around an issue is going to get someone self-obsessed to budge an inch -- and, typically I've noticed, people with enough exposure on here tend to be able to identify their own.

People who have wrestled with narcissism remember what it took to get them to come down off their high horses, and they are well-intentioned when they attack people who come in sounding just like they themselves once did. Likewise, people who had half a clue and felt true remorse for a situation that got out of their control will probably find and hear out the voices of those who just needed some gentle nudging in the right direction. But like finds like in this case, which is what I honestly see a great deal of the time.

Hopefully, voices like yours will find your threads in the future and contribute in a way you all find mutually acceptable and beneficial!


Me: fWS 32
Her: BS 35 (HeartInADustpan)
DS: 4yo
M: 7 years
DDays: 2012/11/14, 2013/02/05, 2013/03/09
-
"Everything that happens now is happening 'now.'"
"What happened to 'then'?"
"We passed 'then.'"

Posts: 797 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: St. Louis
authenticnow
Moderator
Member # 16024
Default  Posted: 7:57 PM, April 26th (Saturday)

The original poster will not be back to this thread so we're going to lock it up.


Take up your space (and do it well).

"That's the thing about pain, it demands to be felt."


Posts: 37620 | Registered: Sep 2007
Topic Posts: 60