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User Topic: At one point does your "gut" take precedence over proof?
hurtyetstrong
Member
Member # 38372
Default  Posted: 1:08 PM, April 30th (Wednesday)

In over 3 years I have seen a wide range of illicit activity by my WH. Plenty of nude photos, phone sex, Skype sessions, Facebook messages, texts, etc.

However he adamantly claims that is all there is. That there has never been physical sex with any of these women. My gut tells me this is a big fat lie and he's only sticking to it because I have no hard-rock proof that he has acted upon it.

It is so hard to make huge life decisions based on a gut feeling. However, my gut told me never to marry him in the first place so maybe my gut knows WH way better than I do.


Me: BW (30)
Him: WH (31)
2 DDs - 4yrs & 2yrs (as of Oct 2014)

multiple PAs

Filed for divorce May 16, 2014
1st court hearing October 23, 2014 (hopefully will be final!!!)


Posts: 156 | Registered: Feb 2013
GabyBaby
Member
Member # 26928
Default  Posted: 1:11 PM, April 30th (Wednesday)

Definitely.
I didn't have hard evidence for MOST of my XWH's activities, but my gut feeling was that he was still cheating and telling me bold-faced lies.
Like your WH, my XWH would only admit to SOME of the things for which I had proof. And even THEN he'd try to minimize or tell me that that the apple I'm looking at is actually an orange.

Trust your gut.


Me - 42
SorryInSac (WH#2) - 47. DDay 7/12/14
Married 4, together 7yrs total
Status - Stick a fork in me...

DD(21), DS(18, PDD-NOS)
6 Furkids - 4 dogs, 2 cats

WXH (serial cheater, 12+ OW) - Legally married 18yrs

I edit often for clarity.


Posts: 6525 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: California
selfrespect911
Member
Member # 42746
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, April 30th (Wednesday)

Always trust your gut. Proof is just semantics. Sure, it's nice to have, but if your gut doesn't trust him, there's a reason.


BS 26
WH 32
Nov-?? A with his Ex

EA DDay: 31 Jan, I moved to in-laws
PA DDAY: 23 Feb
DDay 3: 13 May. Back in A.

9 Mar: I moved back. A went underground.
9 Apr: He moved into parents.
14 Apr: Me NC with WH.


Posts: 148 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: UK
Pentup
Member
Member # 20563
Default  Posted: 1:24 PM, April 30th (Wednesday)

i have seen a wide range of illicit activity by my WH. Plenty of nude photos, phone sex, Skype sessions, Facebook messages, texts,

Is that not enough? I understand wanting to see the smoking gun. It was not until my pastor said, he never compliments any woman besides his wife, that it hit me. Married men with good boundaries protect their wives from having to even worry about this crap. That is what I want.

You don't have to see his penis inside another person to feel less than in your marriage. If he is putting you and your needs first, then he would not be doing any of the above to make you uncomfortable.

Trust your gut.


Me- BS
Him- FWS (I hope- F)

Posts: 6605 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Not Oz
hurtyetstrong
Member
Member # 38372
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, April 30th (Wednesday)

Married men with good boundaries protect their wives from having to even worry about this crap. That is what I want.

Pentup, that's what I want too. And really, all that I've seen should be MORE than enough.

[This message edited by hurtyetstrong at 1:33 PM, April 30th (Wednesday)]


Me: BW (30)
Him: WH (31)
2 DDs - 4yrs & 2yrs (as of Oct 2014)

multiple PAs

Filed for divorce May 16, 2014
1st court hearing October 23, 2014 (hopefully will be final!!!)


Posts: 156 | Registered: Feb 2013
Ostrich80
Member
Member # 34827
Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, April 30th (Wednesday)

Absolutely!! For 2+ years before DD1, I had nothing as far as proof. Just a strong gut feeling that he was cheating..trust me, I was searching like a mad woman for that 2 years, searching his truck, every box in his closet, even trash he threw away from his truck ( yea I dumpster dove), but I found not so much as a receipt showing a location or time that would help my case. Eventually he made a mistake and I was waiting for one, so.I finally had something in my hand. It was only phone records but there texts between them was such a high volume,.it was enough to confront. My ws has never admitted to anything more than inappropriate texting, of course because that's all I've got. I know it was PA. There's no way he would be texting for so long and not act upon it.
So definitely trust your gut. It sounds.like you have enough proof but I know, you want something there's not a way for them to wiggle out of. I've told my ws before, if I walked in and saw you on top of her, you would tell me.I hallucinated.


BS..me
WS..him
Been with him over half my life
4kid
DD1 10-01-09 DD2 02-12-12 discovered it never ended
OW..nothing special. Just your average skank
Status..#$%@????

Posts: 5130 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: midwest
Nature_Girl
Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 1:40 PM, April 30th (Wednesday)

Always trust your gut. Proof is just semantics. Sure, it's nice to have, but if your gut doesn't trust him, there's a reason.

Amen.

For some of us, the behaviors you've listed are enough.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 tween-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 9823 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
Pentup
Member
Member # 20563
Default  Posted: 1:43 PM, April 30th (Wednesday)

That is why I think the 180 is so important. When we enter the tsunami of shit called infidelity, we (I) want to fix it, figure it out, analyze it, figure out our spouse, blah blah blah

But the thing that was most important to me, was figuring out what my boundaries were. Not just the internal rules for how I would behave and treat others, but what rules did I have about how people could treat me? The book, "boundaries in Marriage" was very helpful to me. 180 and that book gave me time to focus on me. What were my lines in the sand?

Before that, if someone did something to someone I loved, I would be all over that, but me, I would let people take an emotional dump on me and I would be proud that it rolled off my back. But you know what, that shit stains when it is rolling off your back. It is hard to stand up tall and proud with shit stains on your back.


Me- BS
Him- FWS (I hope- F)

Posts: 6605 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Not Oz
deena04
Member
Member # 41741
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, April 30th (Wednesday)

Trust your gut! It may be the only thing telling you the truth!


Me BS mid-late 30s
Him WS knocking on 40 (lovemywife4ever)
blended family with lots of kiddos
together 5 years, married 8/13
D day 12/1/13
WH ONS had been 4/12
Getting ME back and moving to HAPPY - whatever that means
I want out!

Posts: 1070 | Registered: Dec 2013
Furious1
Member
Member # 42970
Default  Posted: 1:52 PM, April 30th (Wednesday)

Yes. On D-day, I had no "proof." I all I had was my suspicions and the knowledge that he was lying to me. I finally realized that what I had was more than enough for me.

When I confronted WH, I didn't beg for the truth or a confession. I simply told him that I wanted a divorce because I could not stand to be married to a man who looks me straight in the eye and lies to me each and every day. Of course, WH tried to play dumb. I didn't care. It changed nothing. I told him if he was really that stupid and didn't know what I was talking about, it was his loss. By the next day, he had amazingly grown a brain and knew exactly what I was talking about and was ready to confess some of it (trickle truth).

I later asked WH why he confessed. He told me that he lied to me because he was afraid that I would leave him if I knew the truth. Since I was leaving him for lying, he had nothing left to gain by it. Of course, getting the whole truth out of him was another battle altogether.

It took me a while to stop focusing on having to have proof. That was his game and his rule, not mine. I let him get in my head and convince me that I had to have proof. WRONG! All I needed was my own gut and confidence in myself that I was doing the right thing for myself. There was more than enough for me to feel justified in walking away. The lying, the crazy-making, the head games. There doesn't have to be penetration for betrayal to take place.


BW (me): 41 WH (him): 49
Married 18 years. SD: 26 from his 1st. M. DS: 21 from 1st M. DD: 17 (autistic)
D-day: 10/4/13 with ongoing TT (last TT was 10/2/14).
2 OC with 2 different OW. 15 year A with my sister.

Posts: 323 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: United States
NeverAgain2013
Member
Member # 38121
Default  Posted: 2:02 PM, April 30th (Wednesday)

I'm a little confused because your profile signature says "multiple PAs." Is that supposition based on your gut feelings, or actual affairs he's had beside your current gut feelings that he's been up to no good for a long while?

In either event, you remind me of my girlfriend. She was married to a philanderer for almost 20 years and was CONSTANTLY finding women's numbers in his car or wallet, hearing about things from friends or acquaintences, seeing suspicious numbers showing up on the phone, finding all kinds of circumstantial evidence (his shirt rolled up in his truck for no reason at all, or finding an item that suddenly appeared out of nowhere that she knew he didn't buy), etc. etc. etc., seeing his car in a part of town where he had no reason to be, shutting down windows on the computer when she walked into the room, coming home hours later than promised and having weak, lame excuses for why he was late, and the list just goes on and on and on.

The signs of shady activity were constant and endless.

And YET, even though it was right in her face on an almost daily basis, she still chose to hold out for that smoking gun. He always managed to stay 2 steps ahead of her, and I saw what that eventually did to her. The poor girl was skinny because her nerves were constantly on end, her face was always hollow and exhausted looking with dark circles under her eyes because trying to monitor someone 24/7 day in and day out year after year was literally killing her.

Well, she never found that "smoking gun" but thank God, she finally had had enough and left him. I think it's because she just couldn't take it anymore and was at the end of her rope. But watching her slowly kill herself for 18 years was so horrific to watch.

The bottom line (in my opinion) is that where there's smoke, there's fire. You've found a ton of inappropriate crap that just makes him look like a desperate, drooling creeper to the women he's hitting on.

If his life is THAT miserable that he has to 'resort' to Skyping or phone sex with prideless skanks desperate enough to waste their time with married men, then he's pretty pitiful. Sounds as though he's got far too much damned time on his hands.

You just haven't found the smoking gun, is all. Someone this comfortable jacking off for any woman who'll give him 20 minutes of her time would jump all over any opportunity that fell in his lap. You just haven't caught him ... yet.


Be careful - that 'knight in shining armor' may very well be nothing more than an assclown wrapped in tin foil.
ME: 50+ years old and cute as a button :-)
Ex-WBF: Just a lying, cheating, gravy-sucking pig - and I left him in 2012.

Posts: 1807 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: USA
hurtyetstrong
Member
Member # 38372
Default  Posted: 2:12 PM, April 30th (Wednesday)

Pentup, you are on a roll today!

Before that, if someone did something to someone I loved, I would be all over that, but me, I would let people take an emotional dump on me and I would be proud that it rolled off my back. But you know what, that shit stains when it is rolling off your back. It is hard to stand up tall and proud with shit stains on your back.

This is so me! My best friend knows basically everything and anytime I tell her something new she just tells me 'HYS, you are really nice. You are a very good person. Not many people would react as calmly and nicely as you have'

I've always said I'm a laid back person and it takes a lot to get to me, but the question is when did I confuse being laid back with becoming a door mat?


Me: BW (30)
Him: WH (31)
2 DDs - 4yrs & 2yrs (as of Oct 2014)

multiple PAs

Filed for divorce May 16, 2014
1st court hearing October 23, 2014 (hopefully will be final!!!)


Posts: 156 | Registered: Feb 2013
hurtyetstrong
Member
Member # 38372
Default  Posted: 2:17 PM, April 30th (Wednesday)

I'm a little confused because your profile signature says "multiple PAs." Is that supposition based on your gut feelings, or actual affairs he's had beside your current gut feelings that he's been up to no good for a long while?

All based on my gut and tons of circumstantial evidence. Most importantly: a text he sent someone saying he enjoyed 'hitting it from the back', Facebook messages that reference sex he had with a woman - he said they messaged about meeting up but never did, and the most recent, Facebook messages about fun in Walmart parking lots.

All of these things addressed activity in the past-tense, not in the future tense, which would corroborate his claim that he's never acted upon it.


Me: BW (30)
Him: WH (31)
2 DDs - 4yrs & 2yrs (as of Oct 2014)

multiple PAs

Filed for divorce May 16, 2014
1st court hearing October 23, 2014 (hopefully will be final!!!)


Posts: 156 | Registered: Feb 2013
Pentup
Member
Member # 20563
Default  Posted: 2:24 PM, April 30th (Wednesday)

I've always said I'm a laid back person and it takes a lot to get to me, but the question is when did I confuse being laid back with becoming a door mat?

EXACTLY! I considered myself a strong smart independent woman. I was the cool wife that other guys wish they had.

How did this become my life? Years of being worn down subtly my friend. It is the slow boiling frog syndrome. It slowly increases so you can tolerate it. Then you are dead.


Me- BS
Him- FWS (I hope- F)

Posts: 6605 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Not Oz
TrustedHer
Member
Member # 23328
Default  Posted: 3:05 PM, April 30th (Wednesday)

You have hard evidence of disrespect and EA's, apparently. This is on him.

Then your gut is telling you there are likely multiple PA's, but no proof. Your gut is probably right, but you want to doubt it.

What is your gut telling you about YOU?

Are you happy in your marriage?
Are you happy being treated like this?
Do you deserve better?
Can you get what you need from your H?
Are you really ok staying in a marriage full of EA's and phone sex, just because you can't PROVE a PA?

180 and NC are your friends. You can find the space to think about those questions, their answers, and how to get what you need, either with your H or without him.


Take care of yourself. There's a great future out there. It won't come to you; you have to go to it.

Posts: 5181 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: DeepInTheHeartOf, TX
norabird
Member
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 3:18 PM, April 30th (Wednesday)

Your gut should never be overridden. If you want more proof, you can ask him to take a lie detector test; but I'm the illicit activity is damning on it's own anyway. There does not need to be 'more' for it to still be 'too much'.


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4196 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
SBB
Member
Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 3:28 PM, April 30th (Wednesday)

Yes.

He only confessed to DDOW the night he returned from 2 weeks at a professional development course in London. My gut was screaming at me for years but for some reason I knew this June was different because he would confess - he was in Luuurve.

I begged him for an hour "PLEASE - SET ME FREE! If you ever had any love for me set me free. Don't let me walk away from this M wondering if I'm crazy. I know you're lying." Repeated about a hundred times.

He was adamant - No - you're crazy. Laughing for a large part of it. Then: OK - I held her hand. It wasn't anything. Then: OK, I kissed her. It wasn't anything. Then: I slept in her bed, nothing happened. I was too drunk. Then: OMG - I slept with her, I'M SO SORRY!!! Boo who whoo, cue the falling to the ground crying.

I was already on the ground, crying - screaming, begging. Please set me free.

In False R I asked him what made him confess. He said he didn't know. I just wouldn't let up. He knew I knew and he thought he was in love.

He never did confess to any of the others. Flat out refused. Berated me for not trusting him.

But I knew.

After a 3m False R of "I'll do whatever it takes for as long as it takes" his actions were making my gut scream at me. I begged him to please give me full disclosure. He was adamant he had.

Then 20w after S this 40 y/o loser tells me he is ready to introduce his 24 y/o office gopher to my then almost 5 and 2 years olds as his GF. She was not DDOW.

I had commented for years about how strange she acted towards me - others too. Know I knew.

I understand where you are - I was there too. I reached a point where waiting for confirmation that would never come was killing me. I jumped well before I had the strength or courage to do so because I had to to save myself.

What he did to me pre-DD was enough grounds to walk away. DD just gave me the permission to do so. It also forced me to be unable to lie to myself any longer.

Those last 3w of False R I was like a walking zombie. His pretty words were like knives in my heart. I knew. I knew what I didn't want to know. I knew what he would not tell me. I knew.


I may have reached a point where I'd piss on him if he was on fire.... eventually!!

Posts: 5609 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
whattheh
Member
Member # 40032
Default  Posted: 5:02 PM, April 30th (Wednesday)

The illicit activity you describe would be forms of infidelity per my personal standards. How about you?


BW- mid 50's (me)
fWH-late 50's
M 33 T 35
DD-Early 2013 PA 2010
In R but I have PTSD...

Posts: 563 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
devasted30
Member
Member # 39439
Default  Posted: 5:39 PM, April 30th (Wednesday)

My gut never told me. I even received an anonymous letter in the mail, but I knew it was a hoax. My WS would NEVER betray me like that. He loved me too much. If your gut is telling you something, listen. I wish I had a gut like that. Mine never gave me a hint even after 7 years.


And remember Murphy is right. Nothing is so bad that it can't get worse!!!

Posts: 1320 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Ontario, Canada
sadcountryboy
Member
Member # 43058
Default  Posted: 6:08 PM, April 30th (Wednesday)

Before that, if someone did something to someone I loved, I would be all over that, but me, I would let people take an emotional dump on me and I would be proud that it rolled off my back. But you know what, that shit stains when it is rolling off your back. It is hard to stand up tall and proud with shit stains on your back.

This is absolutely beautiful. Truer words have never been spoken.


Me: BH 34
Her: WW 30
Lived together 5-1/2 years
Married almost 2 years
D-Day 3/17/14
Affair for 8 months with a married man at her job
I don't even know who she is. Maybe never did.
Separated 3/21/14
headed to D

Posts: 67 | Registered: Apr 2014
Ostrich80
Member
Member # 34827
Default  Posted: 8:24 PM, May 1st (Thursday)

. I was the cool wife that other guys wish they had.

How did this become my life? Years of being worn down subtly my friend. It is the slow boiling frog syndrome. It slowly increases so you can tolerate it. Then you are dead.

Wow, ditto!!


BS..me
WS..him
Been with him over half my life
4kid
DD1 10-01-09 DD2 02-12-12 discovered it never ended
OW..nothing special. Just your average skank
Status..#$%@????

Posts: 5130 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: midwest
Kajem
Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 8:55 PM, May 1st (Thursday)

My gut was screaming for over 2 years - no proof and I was snooping.

One night when he didn't get home till 2-3 am and I was laying in bed waiting for him I asked him "if our DD was being treated by her H the way you're treating me, what would you advise her?" His answer "leave him the ch-----". I didn't hear the rest, but I thought he said cheater.

It wasn't until I'd started pulling away and concentrated on kids, did he start slipping up and I had circumstantial evidence at best. I told him to leave and he did.

After the divorce was filed I cracked the password on the family computer to find all the evidence I needed that my gut was right!


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5264 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
Sadmumma
Member
Member # 42192
Default  Posted: 8:57 PM, May 1st (Thursday)

Yes!!!!! And you know what... My gut has been with me longer than the moron. So I trust it more


On any given day you have the power to say "my story is not going to end like this"
Me 41 BS
Him 41 WH
6 kids...7 weeks, 5,7,9,11&13
D day jan 29th 2014

Posts: 536 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Land down under
Topic Posts: 23