SurvivingInfidelity.com Forums
Divorce/Separation
User Topic: Just received counter-offer- please talk me down!
nekorb
Member
Member # 40306
Default  Posted: 11:59 PM, May 2nd (Friday)

I'm mad. SUPER mad...

Ok, I knew I wasn't going to love the counter offer, but some of the shit in there is RIDICULOUS.

For starters, when did internet real estate promo sites become the resource for determining the value of your house to further determine equity. AYFKM? On top of that, they want to take that number and think I should compensate WH in cash out of my personal account! THEN,after the appraisal, if it's determined equity is even higher I can pay him MORE cash out of my personal account! Um...NO.

AND - opposing counsel said she wants to go back and trace my inheritance money. Really? Do you want to do that? Because I didn't ask for the money that I co-mingled, but if you want to trace it back, let's do that and then I WILL take it back as well as the assets that I purchased with it. WTF?? How is this a good idea for their side?

AND - WH fed his atty bullshit numbers that he pulled out of his ass for my future inheritance and she wants to factor that into determining future spousal support. It's money I may not even get!

AND - he doesn't want to pay any extra child support (beyond age 18) for my DD with the learning disability/mental health issues.

I'm in the TWILIGHT ZONE.

What in the fuck is going on in my universe right now.

Must do some deep breathing.

I know we are going to try and schedule a meeting with both attorneys, me, and WH next week.

Holy crap. I don't know if I should be allowed to talk.

Talk me down people. I must sleep between now and Monday when I can call my attorney and go over the letter. Right now I'm exhausted and sleep is nowhere near by...


Me: BS 44
Him: WH 47 aka CAT- colossal asshat
Married 22 years
D-day: July 17, 2013, with TT to follow
Heading for Divorce
3 kids: 15,17,19

Psalms 27:14
Wait for The Lord; be strong and take heart, wait for The Lord.


Posts: 1665 | Registered: Aug 2013
miadianna
Member
Member # 10516
Default  Posted: 12:06 AM, May 3rd (Saturday)

It's going to be okay, I remember that feeling. Try and relax.

Internet real estate promo sites are ridiculous and never accurate. I had to get three separate appraisals in person, but if you call a real estate agent and tell them it's for your divorce they do it at no cost. Be honest and tell them not to inflate it. They take the average from the three numbers to come up with the value. I had to refinance a year after divorce and give my XH a certain amount based on this split. Mine was not 50/50.


Me: BS 53
Son: 27 years old
Daughter: 25 years old
D-day(s) 9/23/94 - 1/31/05
Divorced 4/10/08

Posts: 7456 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Illinois
TrustedHer
Member
Member # 23328
Default  Posted: 12:10 AM, May 3rd (Saturday)

It's his job, and his attorney's job, to ask for everything.

Just because they ask doesn't mean they get a cent.

Only real appraisals from certified appraisers will end up counting.

Future inheritances don't count for a penny.

Co-mingled prior inheritances should be figured as completely lost, I'm afraid. Courts are stupid that way. My judge says I gave X a $150,000 "gift" when I put her name on the deed to my family's farm.

The main thing is, your attorney needs to handle this. This is just legal positioning. The end result will be much different, and probably closer to whatever you proposed in the first place. His lawyer just has to act like he's earning his fees. And try to intimidate you.

Just remember: FTG.


Take care of yourself. There's a great future out there. It won't come to you; you have to go to it.

Posts: 5115 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: DeepInTheHeartOf, TX
nekorb
Member
Member # 40306
Default  Posted: 12:22 AM, May 3rd (Saturday)

Co-mingled prior inheritances should be figured as completely lost, I'm afraid.

The thing is, I was ok with not asking for the co-mingled portion. It is what it is, you know? But THEY want to trace it back? That just seems like shooting themselves in the foot. WhatthefuckEVER. Quite honestly, I don't think his L has figured out how to manage him yet.

I feel like my intelligence was just insulted. Like I'm just going to fork over that cash. WHAT THE FUCK.

I'm sorry. I'm just feeling the need to swear right now.

Thank you all for the reality checks. Yes.. It is posturing and I need to remember that. I also need to remember that my attorney isn't losing sleep over this, so I don't need to either. He has the situation well in hand.

My WH is a disgrace to his family name. His father would be so disappointed in him, for so many reasons. His grandfather would be crying, I think.

What MAN behaves like this?


Me: BS 44
Him: WH 47 aka CAT- colossal asshat
Married 22 years
D-day: July 17, 2013, with TT to follow
Heading for Divorce
3 kids: 15,17,19

Psalms 27:14
Wait for The Lord; be strong and take heart, wait for The Lord.


Posts: 1665 | Registered: Aug 2013
dmari
Member
Member # 37215
Default  Posted: 3:26 AM, May 3rd (Saturday)

What MAN behaves like this?
oh please ... you give him too much credit. He may have been born a male but he is NOT anywhere near being a MAN.

It is a shame that stbx has chosen to go this route. I know ... really, I KNOW ... how infuriating you must feel. It's one thing to be slapped in the face as a wife but it's another thing to be slapped in the face as the mother of HIS children.

When the same thing happened to me and I was losing it with my therapist, she told me "Are you really surprised that he would lie?" And when I thought about it, I shouldn't have been surprised.

CHEATERS LIE AND LIARS CHEAT.

Yes, do some deep breathing and rely on your faith. You are doing just beautifully. Your stbx knew what to say to hurt you and he did. Vent here but know that your attorney will handle it. Get it all out here so that you can call your attorney on Monday and state your questions and concerns without emotion.

I am going to send you a pm regarding the inheritance.


Me (BS): 42 Children: DD 18, DS 15
Mediation date: 7/10/14 and 7/22/14
Final final court date: Oct 2014

Posts: 2112 | Registered: Oct 2012
FinallyHappy
Member
Member # 308
Default  Posted: 3:54 AM, May 3rd (Saturday)

AND - opposing counsel said she wants to go back and trace my inheritance money. Really? Do you want to do that? Because I didn't ask for the money that I co-mingled, but if you want to trace it back, let's do that and then I WILL take it back as well as the assets that I purchased with it. WTF?? How is this a good idea for their side?

It's a good idea for their side because he's due half of the value that your house/belongings have accumulated since you co-mingled your funds.

It's a bitch.

AND - WH fed his atty bullshit numbers that he pulled out of his ass for my future inheritance and she wants to factor that into determining future spousal support. It's money I may not even get!

Don't worry about this. He's full of shit.

AND - he doesn't want to pay any extra child support (beyond age 18) for my DD with the learning disability/mental health issues.

He might get away with this depending on where you live.


"Be civil to all; sociable to many; familiar with few; friend to one; enemy to none."

~Ben~

Posts: 7320 | Registered: Jul 2002 | From: WI
kg201
Member
Member # 40173
Default  Posted: 6:08 AM, May 3rd (Saturday)

Yup, it can be infuriating. My X's proposal for child custody was that I get kids every two weekends and Wednesday night dinners. Ummmm, riiiiiiight. I'm writing this on a weekend that my X asked me to have the kids because she had to do something. My lawyer wrote LOL in the margins of her proposal next to the custody suggestion.

It's just craziness what they think of. I sent back a counter proposal which was basically half of everything....and. I told the lawyers that she could even keep the ring her AP gave to her to symbolize their "authentic" love. (I did for a moment talk with my lawyer as putting that ring in my list of items to keep )

Hang in there Nekorb. It's a process is all.


Me: BH, 39
Her: WW, 40
Together 18 years, married 15+
LTA 3.5 years, ongoing
Dday: 7/28/13
Divorcing, 3 children
---------------------------------
"There can be no friendship without confidence, and no confidence without integrity." -S

Posts: 580 | Registered: Aug 2013
Caretaker1
Member
Member # 42777
Default  Posted: 8:05 AM, May 3rd (Saturday)

Never heard of Internet real estate appraisals. You need a company that does an apprisal on date of marriage, separation and does an in depth walk through not a drive by, of all improvements etc. this sounds half assed.

Posts: 234 | Registered: Mar 2014
myowndystopia
Member
Member # 41340
Default  Posted: 8:06 AM, May 3rd (Saturday)

For my DD16 (just 16 yesterday!) Our parenting plan, that is still under construction, has some language about child support past the majority and then has the state law number listed. Somewhere it also says something about ADA too but that may have been language from an earlier version of parenting plan. Also- it's 18 or when child finishes high school. So in our case DD16 will graduate (special Ed diploma) with her class at age 19. She may possibly return the next school year for the jobs transition program not sure how that is considered!

DD16 IC suggested another way for support beyond high school which I thought was a good idea. Add a part about $ for training programs post high school. DD16 won't go to college because she won't graduate with diploma -but there are training programs she could do, including some of the programs on college campuses for kids with disabilities- our state now has 5 or 6 and will soon have their first that is residential and kids live in the dorms (thinkcollege.net). There are also certificate type programs for job trainings. This approach may help get $ for beyond the high school. Another thing is the health insurance. I carry the insurance and with disability she can stay on much longer (into early 30s I think) that is included in parenting plan that she will stay on my health insurance as long as she is eligible (or in a situAtion where she can get her own)

In terms of dealing with opposing lawyer- We are back on for mediation on Wednesday. STBXWH's lawyer seems like a total jerk but I just keep telling myself she works for him and he's paying her to be a jerk. I'm just glad we will be in separate rooms - then I can roll my eyes at their jerkness all I want!

[This message edited by myowndystopia at 8:32 AM, May 3rd (Saturday)]


Me- BS
Him - WS (the Grub)
married 28 years/4 kids(mostly grown)

"'Cause there's a side to you that I never knew, never knew.
All the things you'd say, they were never true, never true "
Set Fire to the Rain
Adele


Posts: 408 | Registered: Nov 2013
Chrysalis123
Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 8:22 AM, May 3rd (Saturday)

Ask your lawyer to be in a separate room when you meet with the opposing lawyer and your X.

That way you wont have to see him or feel enraged, or heaven forbid loose control or cry in front of them.

The only person you would speak to is your lawyer.

I have done this twice and it really helped me.

I know it is awful to read what they sent. But, the reality is they can ask for anything.

[This message edited by Chrysalis123 at 8:23 AM, May 3rd (Saturday)]


Donít get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well.†

Posts: 2605 | Registered: Jan 2010
nekorb
Member
Member # 40306
Default  Posted: 8:26 AM, May 3rd (Saturday)

It's a good idea for their side because he's due half of the value that your house/belongings have accumulated since you co-mingled your funds.

But - if we clearly identify the part that was co-mingled, how can they still claim to want half of it?

Let me make sure I understand what you are saying first, though.

If I inherited $10 and put it in our joint account that had $5 in it, now we have $15. Fast forward and now the account has $25 in it (interest, deposits, whatever). You're saying he gets... What?

Not tracing the funds gives him a straight up $12.50. Tracing the funds gives him $7.50 if I you subtract the amount of my inheritance, consider it separate property, and divide the remaining portion....and that's not taking into account the interest my portion earned.

My inheritance represented 80-90% of the co-mingled account it is in when I put it in there. I don't see how it benefits him to want to point that out. Am I not understanding? I like to understand things, so if I have it wrong, please tell me!

I'm breathing. Going to try and keep busy this weekend. Focusing on the fact that he is trying to get out of the house by the end of the month.

He actually only made one tweak to the parenting agreement which changed his midweek visit to overnight instead of just dinner. I'm not agreeing to that because of the situation with DD and WH's disengagement from our home life. Again, the thing that pisses me off, if he had read it, is that the proposal clearly stated that he can have additional visitation whenever the KIDS want it ...I feel like he skimmed the proposal and didn't read the details and then dictated to his atty what he wanted her to come back with.

I think I better tighten my seatbelt for this ride.


Me: BS 44
Him: WH 47 aka CAT- colossal asshat
Married 22 years
D-day: July 17, 2013, with TT to follow
Heading for Divorce
3 kids: 15,17,19

Psalms 27:14
Wait for The Lord; be strong and take heart, wait for The Lord.


Posts: 1665 | Registered: Aug 2013
justinpaintoday
Member
Member # 42858
Default  Posted: 8:35 AM, May 3rd (Saturday)

Nekorb: I negotiate multi million dollar deals very often there are two basic types.

1) Win-Win: This is a negotiation where compromises are made on both sides with the intention of creating a partnership.

2) Win-Lose: These are common in one time transactions where future dealings are unlikely. You may do this at a car dealership. You want as much as possible and care very little if the other party is whole.

You STBXH is operating under 2. You need to approach this is 2 ways in my opinion.

1) Vent all the BS and emotional drame here with us. We will here you vent and support you

2) Let your L handle all negotiations. This is now a business transaction. You should not participate as you are too close to the fire. The courts care very little about your emotions. They see thousands of these cases a year and are desensitized to your situation. Respond to allegations and estimations with facts. Good facts matter period.

Know this, your STBXH will not respond in your best interest (and apparently the kids). He only cares about him. State your case clearly and let your L earn his/her money.


I never realized you could be in this much pain and not be dying.

Posts: 700 | Registered: Mar 2014
Merlin
Member
Member # 30221
Default  Posted: 8:48 AM, May 3rd (Saturday)

Nekorb,

Counter offers have a component that is designed to rattle you, knock you off your game and hopefully acquiesce to things you need not even consider.

Most of what you see in this 'counter' is that. So take a breath.

Then, have you and your attorney draft a response.

It's a sick game. But you can't stop playing.


"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." D. H. Lawrence

Her: WW/57 Me: BS/63 24yrs M
3 great kids, now 22, 20, 17 b,b,g
D-Day 8/14/08, D 1/13/11


Posts: 1164 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: East Coast
Helen of Troy
Member
Member # 26419
Default  Posted: 8:51 AM, May 3rd (Saturday)

You don't need to apologize for swearing here. If it were against rules there would be a filter. There isn't one.

I know this is causing strong emotion but really t is only his lawyer's offer. It doesn't mean it will happen. He's going to offer this as top and I'd imagine has a lot of wiggle room to come down from his counter offer.
Now, what steps will you take to take care of yourself today? What will you do for self care?
Make that plan now. Go get your eyebrows waxed or a pedi or a new book to read or whatever will help you feel good.


Posts: 4677 | Registered: Dec 2009
Abbondad
Member
Member # 37898
Default  Posted: 8:56 AM, May 3rd (Saturday)

Yes.. It is posturing and I need to remember that. I also need to remember that my attorney isn't losing sleep over this, so I don't need to either. He has the situation well in hand.

Yes. Keep this in mind. At the beginning of my divorce, I was very distressed and agitated at my X's demands, lies, etc. in her counter-petition. Everyone here who had been through this said the same: it's part of the process. He will demand everything. Try to perceive it as an unemotional business negotiation. Let the lawyers do their thing.

I know, much easier said than done. It is very upsetting and disorienting that this person has suddenly become one's adversary. Take each proposal, counter-proposal, etc. one step at a time.

Hang in there.


Divorced April Fool's Day 2014

Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
-Dune


Posts: 1571 | Registered: Dec 2012
sleepless34
Member
Member # 40274
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, May 3rd (Saturday)

It is so so much fun isn't it?? The lawyers know how to handle the negotiations, it is all strategy. Try not to get mad, it doesn't buy you anything.


I got a counter to my counter yesterday too. It was the same shit offer they made on the courtroom steps, and it included "my client will not accept any parenting time less than this." I asked my lawyer if that is just a negotiating tactic, she said she isn't sure because she can't tell if this is the lawyers fight or my stbx's fight. I asked her what we should do, and she said, "well, we are certainly NOT going to negotiate against ourselves seeing they have offered nothing, we offer nothing." Will have to wait and see what these boneheads do next....


Me BW- 40ish, awesome
Cheating scusband 40ish
2 kids, elementary school age
Bomb dropped Aug 4 out of nowhere...

Posts: 443 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Hell
FaithFool
Member
Member # 20150
Default  Posted: 12:12 PM, May 3rd (Saturday)

This is now a business transaction.

This ^^^

Big hugs, you'll get through this. And do request a separate room for negotiations. You don't need to see his ugly face.

FF


DDay: June 15, 2008
Mistakenly married Mr. Superfreak
20 years of OWs, WTF?
Divorced Dec 26, 2011
"Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget
to sing in the lifeboats". -- Voltaire

Posts: 17111 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Canada
Caretaker1
Member
Member # 42777
Default  Posted: 12:18 PM, May 3rd (Saturday)

Well said, Abbondad. It is upsetting they become our adversaries. What chaos and stress caused by it all. It becomes survival some days. It's surreal others,

Posts: 234 | Registered: Mar 2014
nekorb
Member
Member # 40306
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, May 3rd (Saturday)

Thanks everyone.

How does the separate room thing work? Who runs back and forth? Is that really more productive than just sitting down together and talking face to face?

I want it to be as fast and efficient as possible. How long do these things normally last? I'm thinking at least 2-3 hours. Yes? No?


Me: BS 44
Him: WH 47 aka CAT- colossal asshat
Married 22 years
D-day: July 17, 2013, with TT to follow
Heading for Divorce
3 kids: 15,17,19

Psalms 27:14
Wait for The Lord; be strong and take heart, wait for The Lord.


Posts: 1665 | Registered: Aug 2013
myowndystopia
Member
Member # 41340
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, May 3rd (Saturday)

In our county, separate rooms, my lawyer is there with me and his with him. The mediator is the one going back and forth. Lots of down time.....but time you are paying lawyers and mediators. Between our 2 lawyers and the mediator fee it will be running just a little over $1000 an hour. My STBXWH is not one to compromise- ever- so I'm not sure how this will work for us- probably just fine as long as I agree to anything he may propose - unless he changes his counter offers that won't be happening. He is also not one to handle down time very well- especially expensive down time- his ADHD will kick in pretty early. My L says it could be an all day event or either of us could stop it at any time. We are required in our state to mediate before going to court.


Me- BS
Him - WS (the Grub)
married 28 years/4 kids(mostly grown)

"'Cause there's a side to you that I never knew, never knew.
All the things you'd say, they were never true, never true "
Set Fire to the Rain
Adele


Posts: 408 | Registered: Nov 2013
nekorb
Member
Member # 40306
Default  Posted: 1:27 PM, May 3rd (Saturday)

We aren't using a mediator. Just us and the attorneys. So I'm thinking the separate room thing isn't an option?

My L has told his in no uncertain terms that she needs to control WH during this meeting. I think if that doesn't happen, my L will step in and handle the situation. He isn't afraid of WH's anger like I am!

I just want it to be done. You know? I think the worst part about this, for me AND for WH, is that neither of us knows what it will look like in the end, what we will be able to afford, etc.


Me: BS 44
Him: WH 47 aka CAT- colossal asshat
Married 22 years
D-day: July 17, 2013, with TT to follow
Heading for Divorce
3 kids: 15,17,19

Psalms 27:14
Wait for The Lord; be strong and take heart, wait for The Lord.


Posts: 1665 | Registered: Aug 2013
Chrysalis123
Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 1:32 PM, May 3rd (Saturday)

I just worked out post decree motions filed by NPDx to modify everything possible.

I asked for separate rooms. The lawyers would talk out in the hall. Then my lawyer would present the offer to me and he and I would work out a counter.

I refuse to be in the same room with NPDx.

We also did the mediator too (before having the lawyers work it out) because it was required. NPDx doeasn't negotiate. So that was extremely expensive and just as effective as nailing jello to the wall.

[This message edited by Chrysalis123 at 1:33 PM, May 3rd (Saturday)]


Donít get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well.†

Posts: 2605 | Registered: Jan 2010
Gemini71
Member
Member # 40115
Default  Posted: 4:14 PM, May 3rd (Saturday)

I totally understand your anger and frustration.

My STBX's attorney made the first MSA offer. It took me a bit by surprise because STBXH and I had already agreed to terms verbally, and their MSA was not what we had talked about. So I'm having my attorney counter with our end position (basically what we had agreed on via email). It is also less than what I could reasonably expect at trial.

I don't want to waste time and fees going back and forth. If DipShit lets his lawyer run up fees by trying to renegotiate, I'm gonna play hardball. I will not give anything on future offers, and just ask for more, starting with attorney's fees. If he wants to take it to trial, fine. I'll probably end up with more than we're proposing, but I just want to be finished with it.

Yeah, it's business. Still doesn't mean it can't piss you off. Just let the attorney be the bad guy.


Edited to correct stupid typos.

Two steps forward and one step backwards, is still progress.


Posts: 1517 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Illinois, USA
Topic Posts: 23