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User Topic: Helping him find his daughter
TattoodChinaDoll
Member
Member # 34602
Default  Posted: 1:03 AM, May 5th (Monday)

Well...this night certainly didn't turn out how I expected. Surprise surprise nothing has changed between us. I need a shadow to help me with the 180. I've done it before so I know it's possible. I know it's about making me strong. I need to get it out of my head that trying to stick up for myself with him is not a way to show my strength.

Anyway, I wasn't going to post about that. I actually was going to post a support thread for all the people out there who find Mother's Day to be a trigger. I know it's been weighing heavy on me since my second miscarriage in January. Whether it is because the A and Mother's Day have a connection, people are missing their mothers and their support, or other triggers relating to being a mother and the A, I was going to offer hugs and an "you're not alone." Well, here are the hugs and support! But this isn't going to be about that either.

It's been mentioned by TTMU (awhile ago) that when he was 17 he got his girlfriend pregnant. She was 15 at the time. They broke up and we started dating not long after. He didn't know she was pregnant. A few months into our relationship he got a call from her about it. His family basically rug swept it and never offered any support. Don't talk about it and then nothing is wrong, right? So here I was....16....and being his support. Reassuring him and telling him that I'd still be there for him. Over the years I have been the only one to bring it up to him. Asking him how he felt and what he thought. I didn't bring it up often but I was the ONLY one. He was offered pictures years ago and he never took the offer. So tonight he gets on my case how I wasn't there for him when he brought it up right before our youngest was born and how that might have contributed to how he felt to make him have an A. Honestly, I don't remember this conversation. He said I brushed him off. I told him that the only thing I could think of was being worried about how things would be with our children. He wasn't always the epitome of responsibility. Selfish has been a word used for many many years to describe him. And maybe that I had our family on our mind because I was anxious how he would handle things. Of course he says I'm making excuses. It's not an excuse. I was just saying what I could only assume what was going through my head at that point. He has made it quite clear that he can't handle his role in this and especially how much more difficult it is with all his screw ups. I was trying to help him see that while he may have done some good things since dday, his consistency doesn't show me love and it doesn't show me that he cares. Everyone has slip ups. The problem with him is that it could be 1 second after he does something good, 1 minute, 1 hour, 1 day, 1 week....I never know which. And it's not like it's always months then something. I have always supported him with this first child thing and I was ALWAYS the one who brought it up. So if I did brush him off this time, this is where he could see my consistency. I don't remember it but I do remember supporting him in it since then. So he says don't I think having a child he never met and put up for adoption was traumatizing and that he never got help for it. Obviously I can. But if you want to talk excuses there is always an excuses to treat me like shit and not get it. I have always tried to support him with this. Even as a 16 year old!!!! Well, long story even longer...I offered to help find his daughter or the ex girlfriend to try and get him pictures. So I did. Took me all of 2 minutes to find the ex girlfriend and I messages her on Facebook asking for photos of their daughter (obviously not just like that but this is getting long). So yeah...not the way I saw my night going. Helping him get closure. Helping him to at least see this daughter he has never met. I had no motivation for myself. I'm not looking for anything from him. Honestly, I wish I could walk right out of this house and disappear. I'm seriously tired of my life. All I wanted was to be worth something to him and for him to prove it. He would say I would always find a way for him to be proven wrong. I don't have to prove it...he does it himself with his words and actions. He thinks it's all me. He doesn't get what he does. I do hope he gets his pictures. I feel like there is hope for his life to be what he wants. Im not sure what hope I have for myself.

[This message edited by TattoodChinaDoll at 1:07 AM, May 5th (Monday)]


Me (BW): 32
WH: 33 TimeToManUp
Married: 11 years, together 16 years
3 daughters: 9, 5, 3, and and 2 angel babies (2013 and 2014)
D-Day: 12/21/2011
Confronted him: 12/22/2011


Posts: 1728 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: New Jersey
Edie
Member
Member # 26133
Default  Posted: 1:19 AM, May 5th (Monday)

Tattoo,

I have not followed your story but coming in cold to this, I suggest you visit the NPD thread down in I Can Relate. They will be the shadow you need.

[This message edited by Edie at 1:20 AM, May 5th (Monday)]


Maybe a long walk in the Hindu Kush would do it?
BW (me) 52
FWS 55
Together 29 years; 2 DDs 15 & 12
Dday Dec 08 (confessed) Feb 09 16 other OW confessed. OW17 tried her unedifying hardest until Aug 09. R'd.

Posts: 5131 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: UK
Unagie
Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 5:27 AM, May 5th (Monday)

TCD I am sorry honey. You seem to always be carrying the load and I agree you should 180. This sitch with his daughter is his issue to own and has nothing to do with his A, I cant believe he'd even say that you're reaction caused those emotions! he has chosen to not be in this child's life and turned down being able to see her at one yime. That is his issue to own. I understand you are being supportive for him but did you do it because you wanted to hun or because part of you felt you had possibly been unsupportive at some point?

TTMU needs to follow through on everything he says he will do and stop blaming you for things that are not your responsibility.

(((TCD)))


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

"To be loyal to myself is to allow myself to grow and change, and challenge who I am and what I think."


Posts: 2767 | Registered: Oct 2012
Catwoman
Member
Member # 1330
Default  Posted: 6:23 AM, May 5th (Monday)

I don't see this as NPD, but he does have significant issues with owning his actions and following through on what he says he will do.

He needs to truly man up and stop blaming others for his problems and issues. And, gently, TCD, it is time for you to stop parenting him and let him clean up his own messes and own his own problems. By always stepping in to rescue him, you perpetuate his issues with responsibility and maturity.

Frankly, this doesn't sound like a healthy relationship. What are the both of you doing to work on that?

Cat


FBS: Married 20 years, 2 daughters 25 and 22. Divorced by the grace of GOD.
D-Days: 2/23/93; 10/11/97; 3/5/03
Ex & OW Broke up 12-10
"An erection does not count as personal growth."

Posts: 29678 | Registered: Apr 2003 | From: Massachusetts
TattoodChinaDoll
Member
Member # 34602
Default  Posted: 7:21 AM, May 5th (Monday)

You're right about the parenting thing. But I've just never saw it that way. TTMU is so intelligent and mature about so many other things that I always figured that when he saw how an action hurt me, he could use his brain (and what I hoped was love in his heart) to learn why his action/reaction was unhealthy. I've always known that some of the things he has done are beyond selfish, even at 16...I just always assumed he'd learn. Well, I guess the whole you know what happens when you assume thing is true. Right now he is in IC. But I swear like last time I don't see him learning and using tools to control himself. I just see him finding the next excuse to why he hurts me. He is looking into seeing a psychiatrist for anti depressants. He thinks chemically there is something wrong that makes him react in such hurtful ways to me. Even though he doesn't to anyone else...because he controls himself not to hurt them in the first place. I'm trying my best to not put myself in a situation to get hurt. But even when I try my damnedest to placate him first so he can be calm and hopefully safe to share my thoughts with, well....nothing ever works.


Me (BW): 32
WH: 33 TimeToManUp
Married: 11 years, together 16 years
3 daughters: 9, 5, 3, and and 2 angel babies (2013 and 2014)
D-Day: 12/21/2011
Confronted him: 12/22/2011


Posts: 1728 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: New Jersey
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 7:45 AM, May 5th (Monday)

((((TCD))))

I know this sucks, and you have been in perpetual limbo with TTMU, but I gotta tell you his constant blaming, need for parenting, and inconsistent work on R, AND Now, a chemical imbalance, now that he finds the work too hard, all leads me to one answer.

He needs to own his shit. Period. He still has excuses for his A. Nope Not gonna fly. You have to tell him it's bullshit when you hear it, and you have stop enabling him in the blame game.

He needs to man up, and admit he made crappy choices that ruined your M, your esteem, and turned both your lives upside down, nad then he needs to focus on how to fix it.
Anything less is unacceptable.

I hope YOU can find the strength to demand the love and respect you deserve.

((((and strength)))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8744 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
TattoodChinaDoll
Member
Member # 34602
Default  Posted: 8:02 AM, May 5th (Monday)

He will admit he did something. He'll admit it again and again. But he never learns from it. The sad thing is that I have done the things you all have suggested and tried my best to communicate these ideas with him. I've called him on his bullshit and it always leads to me getting hurt, yelled at, blamed. I've admitted to him over and over that I've used really crappy methods to communicate with him. But it has ALWAYS been after I've tried and tried in healthy ways or just came to him in sadness needing support, not blaming. It really scares me to stand up for myself. He scares me.

With this whole daughter thing, I did do it because I am sure he didn't just leave it all behind 16 years ago. I couldn't force him to confront it. But I always let him know I was there. I keep on checking Facebook. All last night I had dreams about it. At first I was going to tell him that all communication needed to go through me. But I realized...whatever...he hasn't stopped hurting me so if he thinks he deserves to talk to this ex and he tries something stupid, I shouldn't be surprised. He needs to control that. Not me.


Me (BW): 32
WH: 33 TimeToManUp
Married: 11 years, together 16 years
3 daughters: 9, 5, 3, and and 2 angel babies (2013 and 2014)
D-Day: 12/21/2011
Confronted him: 12/22/2011


Posts: 1728 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: New Jersey
TattoodChinaDoll
Member
Member # 34602
Default  Posted: 9:06 AM, May 5th (Monday)

I sent the ex girlfriend a message on Facebook. Since we are friends on there and neither of us have blocked on another, will my message go to her other folder?

And here I sit wanting to tell him that I understand what it's like to wait for the answers. That I bet he is anxious and excited. All those years of wondering. But then the resentful part of me wants to say screw you...why should I support you. The part of me that wants to stick up for myself says, "you get what you give and you have given me shit. I made the first step for you but that's it."


Me (BW): 32
WH: 33 TimeToManUp
Married: 11 years, together 16 years
3 daughters: 9, 5, 3, and and 2 angel babies (2013 and 2014)
D-Day: 12/21/2011
Confronted him: 12/22/2011


Posts: 1728 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: New Jersey
TattoodChinaDoll
Member
Member # 34602
Default  Posted: 10:07 AM, May 5th (Monday)

Update:

Well my question from last post was answered. The ex girlfriend got back to me. Long story short, the daughter's 16th birthday was actually yesterday. TTMU actually didn't know. She had reached out to the ex on Facebook not too long ago and they have been talking. She told me that she will contact the daughter to ask permission to share pictures but I'm guessing if she wanted to find her birth mom she'll want to know her father too. But the ex did send me a picture of the daughter around 1 year old. She looks exactly like our youngest. So, good for him. I hope this brings him some peace. I have no issues with this part of his life story. Like I said, I was there at 16 and had been since. I can't control him. He'll do what he wants. I don't think this will turn some switch and now he won't hurt me. Bring on the next reason. One day I hope something with work out for me.

[This message edited by TattoodChinaDoll at 10:08 AM, May 5th (Monday)]


Me (BW): 32
WH: 33 TimeToManUp
Married: 11 years, together 16 years
3 daughters: 9, 5, 3, and and 2 angel babies (2013 and 2014)
D-Day: 12/21/2011
Confronted him: 12/22/2011


Posts: 1728 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: New Jersey
norabird
Member
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, May 5th (Monday)

One day I hope something will work out for me.

You have to take action for things to start working out for you. that means facing your fear, and standing up for yourself. He's not going to magically 'get it' from some lightning bolt. So YOU need to take action, not just keep sitting around hoping in limbo.


((((TCD))))


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4196 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
Kajem
Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 10:24 AM, May 5th (Monday)

. She had reached out to the ex on Facebook not too long ago and they have been talking.

She reached out to him, they have been talking?????

TCD - did you know this BEFORE she told you?

And if they're talking, why isn't HE asking for pictures?

TCD, this is getting my BS meter going. The kind of pinging where the WW has the BS meet the OP without knowing it's the OP. BTDT a few times.

Please protect yourself and 180 him HARD. I don't get a good feeling from this.

K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5327 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
Kajem
Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 10:24 AM, May 5th (Monday)

. She had reached out to the ex on Facebook not too long ago and they have been talking.

She reached out to him, they have been talking?????

TCD - did you know this BEFORE she told you?

And if they're talking, why isn't HE asking for pictures?

TCD, this is getting my BS meter going. The kind of pinging where the WW has the BS meet the OP without knowing it's the OP. BTDT a few times.

Please protect yourself and 180 him HARD. I don't get a good feeling from this.

K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 5327 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
TattoodChinaDoll
Member
Member # 34602
Default  Posted: 10:31 AM, May 5th (Monday)

No no no. The daughter who was given up for adoption reached out to the birth mom (ex) on Facebook. He hasn't ha any contact with the ex for 16 years. I'm having a hard time putting labels on people because when you say ex girlfriend it's weird to think of someone 16 years ago at 15...and being his first girlfriend. I don't just want to call her birth mom because she was his girlfriend.


Me (BW): 32
WH: 33 TimeToManUp
Married: 11 years, together 16 years
3 daughters: 9, 5, 3, and and 2 angel babies (2013 and 2014)
D-Day: 12/21/2011
Confronted him: 12/22/2011


Posts: 1728 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: New Jersey
TattoodChinaDoll
Member
Member # 34602
Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, May 5th (Monday)

Oh...and he totally had me in the same room as OW during the A when I didn't know what was going on. Jerk.


Me (BW): 32
WH: 33 TimeToManUp
Married: 11 years, together 16 years
3 daughters: 9, 5, 3, and and 2 angel babies (2013 and 2014)
D-Day: 12/21/2011
Confronted him: 12/22/2011


Posts: 1728 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: New Jersey
nowiknow23
Guide
Member # 33226
Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, May 5th (Monday)

She had reached out to the ex on Facebook not too long ago and they have been talking.
I read this as the DAUGHTER reached out to the ex-GF (her birth mom).


You can call me NIK

"If you carry joy in your heart, you can heal any moment."
- Carlos Santana


Posts: 25842 | Registered: Aug 2011
TattoodChinaDoll
Member
Member # 34602
Default  Posted: 11:12 AM, May 5th (Monday)

So many emotions. So many thoughts. And none have to do with him finally having some connection with his first daughter. I truly see it as a wonderful thing. All have to do with my life up to this point and wondering where I went wrong. Feeling very pointless right now. I didn't do this because I wanted something out of it. But it is disheartening to know that no matter how much good I do and for no other reason than I want to do the good, I will always be hurt....not even stagnant. Every time I open my mouth or do anything, I will be hurt in return.


Me (BW): 32
WH: 33 TimeToManUp
Married: 11 years, together 16 years
3 daughters: 9, 5, 3, and and 2 angel babies (2013 and 2014)
D-Day: 12/21/2011
Confronted him: 12/22/2011


Posts: 1728 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: New Jersey
MissMouseMo
Member
Member # 38562
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, May 5th (Monday)

Isn't it funny how the most tenderhearted among us, at the first outrageously wrong accusation, *jump* to "behave"?

You were insultingly and wrongly accused of not caring over the years? By the *W*H? Really?

Gently:
"He will admit he did something. He'll admit it again and again. But he never learns ...." --I think I hear someone else doing this as well.

You are generous and giving. Take heart. This is only a lesson to learn.


It is the gut-wrenching, down-to-your-soul honesty that helps so much. ~paraphrased from CancunCrushed
"I edit, therefore I am." -BionicGal

Posts: 373 | Registered: Feb 2013
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, May 5th (Monday)

(((TCD)))
It doesn't have to be that way.
It stops when you say it does.
YOU are Capable and strong. Why do you accept so much less than you are worth?


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8744 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
TattoodChinaDoll
Member
Member # 34602
Default  Posted: 11:29 AM, May 5th (Monday)

It's just turned into me having to love more and support more. He has to be loved more. I've been here for 16 years supporting him in this situation. Like I said, I was the only one to ever bring it up. Doing this was the right thing to do. But I just can't support him fully. I can't have empathy for his heartache and joys when he has left me when I needed him the most. He has hurt me when I needed the support. 16 years I was there for him.


Me (BW): 32
WH: 33 TimeToManUp
Married: 11 years, together 16 years
3 daughters: 9, 5, 3, and and 2 angel babies (2013 and 2014)
D-Day: 12/21/2011
Confronted him: 12/22/2011


Posts: 1728 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: New Jersey
TattoodChinaDoll
Member
Member # 34602
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, May 5th (Monday)

And no I don't learn. Because it hurts so much to admit he doesn't love me. I know it's true. I know it intellectually and in my heart that he doesn't. Love doesn't do what he has done to me.


Me (BW): 32
WH: 33 TimeToManUp
Married: 11 years, together 16 years
3 daughters: 9, 5, 3, and and 2 angel babies (2013 and 2014)
D-Day: 12/21/2011
Confronted him: 12/22/2011


Posts: 1728 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: New Jersey
redrock
Member
Member # 21538
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, May 5th (Monday)

And no I don't learn. Because it hurts so much to admit he doesn't love me

I don't know if he loves you or not. It is my impression from reading his posts that he does, he just can't seem to step out of the selfish pattern he has going on to change. To have some humility and put you as a priority.

You both play to his needs- this dynamic is full out in play in this episode.

I offered to help find his daughter or the ex girlfriend to try and get him pictures.

You say you want to 180. You say that you want to walk out. Yet what you do is what you have always done, make an effort in ways you think will help him. Why insert yourself here, with everything else going on in your relationship?

I had no motivation for myself. I'm not looking for anything from him.

Examine this, because IMO that is not true. You chase his validation, even as it angers and hurts you. Even when you know you are not going to get it. You enter into situations where you build up expectation that THIS might be the time and are disappointed that it isn't.

All I wanted was to be worth something to him and for him to prove it.

And there it is.

You have been given the same advice again and again. Work on you. All the effort that you devote to him and the relationship, give that back to yourself. If you really want out, start working towards that. If you want to heal yourself, then take some baby steps in that direction.

If he has work to do with the loss of his daughter, that is his work.

You can't gift him enough attention and love to make him turn it back to you. You have been through hell, I hate to see you cycle through this stuff again and again. Stop chasing him. Stop expecting.


Helping him get closure.

Stop helping him and start helping you.

[This message edited by redrock at 12:34 PM, May 5th (Monday)]


I don't respect anyone that can't spell a word more than one way:)

Posts: 3157 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Michigan
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 1:30 PM, May 5th (Monday)

Really TCD is that what you are hung up on the 16 years that has gone by? That you have accepted less than you are worth?

I see this 16 years thing in several of your posts last week and now today.

In the grand scheme of life 16 years is NOTHING.
Because you accepted less that you are worth for 16 years, it's ok to do it for the next 60? How does that make sense?

what is holding you back? Fear of change? Fear of not finding love for you?

He cannot love you, because he cannot even love and respect himself. I'm not sure what is his hold up, who knows part of it may be about this child, but my bet is it isn't. I would be more likely to believe that he comes from generation after generation of dysfuntion, and it is going to take a ton of commitment, and work from him to start to heal himself.

Don't allow him to hurt you mentally one more day. You are worth more. He is broken. He is not doing the work, and he certainly isn't being accountable for his shit. Until he does that you are only allowing him to drag you down with him.

You are strong, smart and capable, why in the world do you let him treat you anything other than the amazing, talented, awesome woman that you are.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8744 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
abbycadabby
Member
Member # 27428
Default  Posted: 1:40 PM, May 5th (Monday)

Love doesn't do what he has done to me

Then why do you stay? Presumably you're a young, beautiful, talented woman with a huge capacity for love. Find yourself (IC), then find someone who deserves you.

(((TCD)))


Posts: 1276 | Registered: Feb 2010
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, May 5th (Monday)

So tonight he gets on my case how I wasn't there for him when he brought it up right before our youngest was born and how that might have contributed to how he felt to make him have an A.

OMG, just HOW MANY FUCKING WAYS is this guy gonna blame you for everything??

And WHY THE HELL do you keep taking it?!?

It took you 2 minutes to find a way to try to contact this daughter? So what the hell is he blaming you for? If he wanted a relationship with this daughter, HE needed to reach out. Just how is this poor girl going to feel when she realizes he didn't even really put any effort into finding her? YOU put in some effort, but you aren't even family to her. Now what's he going to say if she tries to contact him? I think the truth is that he was just trying to find another way to blame you. He didn't even want to talk to her! YOU just assumed he did. STOP PARENTING HIM AND SAVING HIM.

As I've said before, I give up on TTMU. I'm focused on you, and YOU need some IC. I agree you are searching and searching for his validation. You are trying to do enough to deserve his love. This is co-dependency, and you just have to work on this. You don't need him to be happy! Stop thinking you do!!


xBW~ 35
Two DS~ 7-Eleven
"I've wiped the shit off. It can be wiped off you know." ~ asurvivor

Posts: 2398 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
StillLivin
Member
Member # 40229
Default  Posted: 3:47 PM, May 5th (Monday)

Tcd,what everyone else said and then some. Seriously, why do you stay with this guy. Are you so used to being miserable that you are afraid to reach for happiness? That's what it seems like from the outside looking in.
Oh and BTW, 99.9999% sure he is lying about the alleged conversation where you didn't show enough support in his pity party for himself. I've seen this soo many times. My STBX tried to do this crap to me too but I remembered word for word that exact conversation that my STBX was referring to and called him a f...ing liar to his face.
If you don't start disengaging it's only gonna hurt more and more.
I get it, you were with him for a long time. So were a lot of us. If he were doing the work I would be your staunchest cheerleader, but he is too much of a coward or he just doesn't care enough about you and your family to do the work. Maybe he will change maybe he won't but you gotta take care of you.


I don't need further confirmation of what a fuckwit he is. I already have plenty, thanks very much. -SBB
D: 7/2/2014

Posts: 2342 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: AZ
TattoodChinaDoll
Member
Member # 34602
Default  Posted: 10:59 PM, May 5th (Monday)

Where to begin? If you're interested the final outcome of this whole daughter thing is that I got the info for the adoption lawyer. All he has to do is talk to the lawyer and TTMU can correspond/send and receive pictures with his daughter through the mail. It's out of my hands now and I told him he can do what ever he wants except introduce her/tell our kids without my knowledge. The ex/birthmom did send me a picture of the daughter at about a year old. She looked exactly like our youngest at that age. I mean EXACTLY. He did ask me how I felt about all this. Honestly, no matter what he chose, I was going to support him and love him. I don't mean now...I mean that was my plan from the moment I found out and assumed our relationship wasn't going to be him hurting me all the damn time. It just doesn't bother me. She got pregnant before we started dating and really...why would I feel any hatred towards an innocent child?

I have to think about this one though. I'm just done. I told him so. He sat on the couch tonight and talked at me. And I practiced my 180. In other words I was responding but just in my head. I don't know if this last act of kindness towards him was like a screw you, I left you by being better than you. I don't think that is what it is. I can see how it feels that way and looks that way. I certainly didn't do this to make him feel better. I really do think I mostly did this because I'm an empathetic person. Even though he used it as another excuse, I'm certain becoming a father at 17 and never meeting this child is quite traumatizing. Especially since his family did nothing to help him emotionally after. It was all me. So he is all, "I do feel like this is closure and now it will be easier to control myself not to hurt you." Yeah whatever. If anything it really did show me, yet again, who he is. I need some plans. Still deciding what exactly I want. That's the scary part.


Me (BW): 32
WH: 33 TimeToManUp
Married: 11 years, together 16 years
3 daughters: 9, 5, 3, and and 2 angel babies (2013 and 2014)
D-Day: 12/21/2011
Confronted him: 12/22/2011


Posts: 1728 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: New Jersey
redrock
Member
Member # 21538
Default  Posted: 7:36 AM, May 6th (Tuesday)

I really do think I mostly did this because I'm an empathetic person

You do have empathy, love and caring. But you are also entrenched in co-dependency. please don't dismiss this and move on. HERE is where you need to start on you.

I have to think about this one though. I'm just done. I told him so.

This isn't the first time you have told him that. Each time you do that and then slowly slide right back into the familiar groove that is your marriage- your words lose currency. If it is the last time, how are your going to turn the focus off of him and work on you? How are you going to stop yourself from sliding back long enough to make those plans?

If anything it really did show me, yet again, who he is. I need some plans. Still deciding what exactly I want. That's the scary part.

You do know who he is. So stop making and effort to only be shown the same thing again.

The cycle will end after this last thing that you have done for him.

Will it? You are as much a part of this pattern as he is. You have ownership of your own behavior. I don't say any of this to beat you up. I say it to ask you to stop and look at this. I also highlight it to say that it is HARD to change your hardwiring.

Get a copy of "Co-dependent No More" by Melody Beattie. I think it will be an eye opening look into your side of the equation. You can't change what you don't acknowledge. That applies to both of you.

I am not ignoring the black hole that is TTMU, but focus on what you can do something about. You.


I don't respect anyone that can't spell a word more than one way:)

Posts: 3157 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Michigan
itainteasy
Member
Member # 31094
Default  Posted: 7:58 AM, May 6th (Tuesday)

TCD,

You have said TTMU can control his assholery around other people but not you.

My mother treats me this way. She is kind and charming, and nice to everyone around her, but to me she is belittling, dismissive, and nasty.

My IC and I explored the possibility that people like her need to project this wonderful persona to the outside world. But to people in their personal lives they can be horrifying. Why? Because we're their safe place to land. I'm her daughter, I'm supposed to love her no matter what. So she feels "Free" to say whatever she wants to me, and I *HAVE* to forgive her and continue to love her.

The public (her friends, acquaintances) can drop her ass like a bad habit if she treats them that way. I cannot. She is my mother. No matter what I do, she will ALWAYS be my mother.

It's an abuse of unconditional love.

Now, my mother can also treat me with incredible love and kindness at time----but that doesn't cancel out the 5,000,000 times she's made me feel like I was worth nothing. Or made sure I knew she prefered my brother's company to mine.

But, I'm supposed to forget all about that when she's nice.

My mother cannot see this about herself. She does not see the intolerable cruelty she subjects me to. She doesn't think she's doing anything wrong.

I have limited my contact with her. I speak to her on the phone a couple times a week and I see her maybe once every 2-3 weeks. It works better for me, because now when I see or talk to her she is kind and loving because she "misses" me. (My fiance says she misses her punching bag, and he's probably right)


I'm only telling you this, because it sounds like TTMU treats you this same way. You're his safe, soft place. He can treat you abominably and you will still love him. So, he is able to project his nice guy charm to the outside world, and he can release all of his venom on you, because no one else would accept that.

Does that make any sense? It makes sense in my head, but sometimes that doesn't translate in my typing.

((((((((TCD))))))))

I think that opening the door for TTMU to find/communicate with his daughter was a wonderfully kind thing you did. He may never appreciate it fully, but you did a very unselfish and loving thing.


Posts: 3423 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: NWPA
TattoodChinaDoll
Member
Member # 34602
Default  Posted: 7:59 AM, May 6th (Tuesday)

You are absolutely correct. Everything you said redrock, I have said. I posted the other day about one of the biggest problems is me. I LET him do this. When I woke up this morning my mind hadn't changed but that fear of the unknown was creeping in. I started thinking, are the new struggles of divorce worth it...the money, childcare, job, the effects on the children...just everything. Is it really worse to just not speak of the A, let him stay at the job where OW is, not go to him for support. And I realized how I just sound like a battered woman and how wrong that is. I have two choices and neither of them are remotely good. I guess that's what makes this more difficult...giving up one struggle for another and I'm just tired of struggling.


Me (BW): 32
WH: 33 TimeToManUp
Married: 11 years, together 16 years
3 daughters: 9, 5, 3, and and 2 angel babies (2013 and 2014)
D-Day: 12/21/2011
Confronted him: 12/22/2011


Posts: 1728 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: New Jersey
TattoodChinaDoll
Member
Member # 34602
Default  Posted: 8:02 AM, May 6th (Tuesday)

Itainteasy - We cross posted. What can I say except that is exactly what I have told him he does. I love him. But I'm also a human being.


Me (BW): 32
WH: 33 TimeToManUp
Married: 11 years, together 16 years
3 daughters: 9, 5, 3, and and 2 angel babies (2013 and 2014)
D-Day: 12/21/2011
Confronted him: 12/22/2011


Posts: 1728 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: New Jersey
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 8:08 AM, May 6th (Tuesday)

I guess that's what makes this more difficult...giving up one struggle for another and I'm just tired of struggling.

Only one of those struggles gains you freedom in the end though.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5094 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
norabird
Member
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 8:14 AM, May 6th (Tuesday)

D doesn't sound remotely good right now. And it will be a struggle and a hard change and no one hopes for it when they marry.

But it CAN be really good as time passes. It can be great. You can blossom. You can be free to work on yourself. The happiness that comes from that is amazing. Don't discount it.


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4196 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 8:18 AM, May 6th (Tuesday)

One struggle for another? Um for a period of time, however not for the rest of your life.

With TTMU things never change, and when they do, it's brief at best. You allow him to manipulate, isolate, belittle, and treat you poorly.

Divorce isn't easy. It sucks, and it's hard on everyone, but it stops the cycle of the abuse, and here's the really important thing to remember in it. When you stand up and say "NO MORE, I AM WORTH MORE, AND WILL NO LONGER ACCEPT YOUR BROKEN INTERPRETATION OF LOVE" to your H, you are showing your girls the most important lesson in life. That if you demand the respect you deserve, you get it. If you continue in this broken pattern, all you are showing them is some fucked up version of what life is, and they think it's normal, and they go and repeat that.

YOU know what real love is, it's obvious, you have that for your kids, unfortunately TTMU is too broken to get that, and isn't willing to do the work to understand it.

YOU have some serious codependency issues, and need to work through that, and find that you can be strong, and happy being TTCD. When you figure that out life will fall into place. You will be able to navigate any difficulty that life throws at you. (TRUST ME, I was you once).

So how to move from here? Obviously the 180 is essential, so TTMU can no longer break down your strength and worth. Consider IC, if not at least go to your library, or bookstore, and get Co Dependent No More. IT's a great starting place.

Between that book, and me making the realization I was showing my kids the opposite of normal, what what gave me the strength to put my foot down and say NO MORE, NEVER AGAIN.

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8744 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
StillGoing
Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 8:24 AM, May 6th (Tuesday)

So tonight he gets on my case how I wasn't there for him when he brought it up right before our youngest was born and how that might have contributed to how he felt to make him have an A.

So he's still blame shifting and rewriting your marital history.

Even if he was correct in his statements they are still secondary to his choice in response to that. Their only relevance is if he stops blaming you for his choices and he starts looking honestly at why he chose to run away from a situation he perceived as difficult rather than behave as his eponymous SN.


"You have insulted my footwear."

Posts: 7495 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
abbycadabby
Member
Member # 27428
Default  Posted: 8:36 AM, May 6th (Tuesday)

From experience, D is hard. The unknown is scary. The struggles continue (financial, being the full time parent- except EOW Disney Dad's time, etc.)

But I am MUCH happier now, even though it's hard.

Look how STRONG you are, TCD. Look how much you've been through and keep on going. Look how much empathy and caring you have to find his DD for him even though he treats you like dirt. It is scary, I know. But you can DO this.

My IC and I explored the possibility that people like her need to project this wonderful persona to the outside world. But to people in their personal lives they can be horrifying. Why? Because we're their safe place to land. I'm her daughter, I'm supposed to love her no matter what. So she feels "Free" to say whatever she wants to me, and I *HAVE* to forgive her and continue to love her.

I disagree with this. You don't HAVE to forgive- you could distance yourself and separate yourself from the crazy once and for all. My mom and dad divorced when I was four. Mom remarried to a alcoholic, toxic, abusive man who caused a lot of grief in my life. They were married for 16 years and was the only father figure I knew as bio dad was out of the picture- for all intents and purposes, he WAS my dad. When mom and SF divorced, I walked too and never looked back. Haven't talked to my ex-stepfather in 10 years.

If you DO choose to forgive, great! But forgiveness also doesn't mean you HAVE to keep someone in your life. You can forgive from a distance, for yourself.

Life is too short to allow people who continually demonstrate toxic patterns to remain in our lives.

(((TCD)))

ETA:

So he is all, "I do feel like this is closure and now it will be easier to control myself not to hurt you."

WTF?! I'm calling bullshit on this one. He sounds extremely abusive.

[This message edited by abbycadabby at 8:40 AM, May 6th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 1276 | Registered: Feb 2010
ButterflyGirl
Member
Member # 38377
Default  Posted: 9:07 AM, May 6th (Tuesday)

I always thought my ex had so many problems, and I was gonna be some angel that could pull him up and save him and make him happy. And now I realize that I wasn't pulling him up, he was dragging me down. He was like an anchor, keeping me down no matter how hard I tried.

Yeah, divorce sucks. It's expensive, and hard, and overwhelming. I know you think it will be better for your kids if you guys stay together, but that's only if you guys are in a healthy relationship, and you're not. I think I'm 100 times the mother I was before. I'm focused on raising them, not teaching my ex how to be a man and love me. What a waste of time trying to help that guy was, and it was completely unfair to my kids that I spent so much time on that instead of on them.

I promise, promise, promise it gets better. Once you drop that weight, you will start seeing a life in front of you that you never thought was possible. My kids and I are happier than we have ever been. The best thing I could have done was get them out of that toxic situation. Now they can learn how to treat people and handle tough situations. We are role models for our kids. And you need to teach yours that in no way do you have to put up with abuse, even from someone you love and care for.


xBW~ 35
Two DS~ 7-Eleven
"I've wiped the shit off. It can be wiped off you know." ~ asurvivor

Posts: 2398 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Florida, USA
TattoodChinaDoll
Member
Member # 34602
Default  Posted: 11:06 AM, May 6th (Tuesday)

Excuses excuses excuses. That's all I hear. Justi like his mom and her inability to lose weight. She is always trying to find an excuse to make it not her fault. This last time it was because her vitamin D was low. Of course she reads that one of the side effects is, "difficulty losing weight." She literally said, "see...now I know it's not my fault." SMH. Anyway, that's what I'm getting. Oh...this has filled the hole. Oh...now that this has filled the hole and I get on meds things will get better. I'm going to be there for you when I finally have to sit in the same room as OW during meetings. Not that he was ever consistantly there for the smallest things. Always an excuse. So easy to be supportive when you don't have to be. FTG and his issues.


Me (BW): 32
WH: 33 TimeToManUp
Married: 11 years, together 16 years
3 daughters: 9, 5, 3, and and 2 angel babies (2013 and 2014)
D-Day: 12/21/2011
Confronted him: 12/22/2011


Posts: 1728 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: New Jersey
abbycadabby
Member
Member # 27428
Default  Posted: 11:34 AM, May 6th (Tuesday)

Excuses excuses excuses. That's all I hear

And that's all you're going to hear. As long as you're around for TTMU to vilify nothing's ever going to change.


Posts: 1276 | Registered: Feb 2010
TattoodChinaDoll
Member
Member # 34602
Default  Posted: 8:05 PM, May 6th (Tuesday)

Going to be honest. With Mother's Day coming up (and what I was planning on posting about before this all came up) I'm feeling really pissed off at the universe right now. Two Mother's Day in a row after a loss and everything else certainly isn't going right. And he gets this? Yes I helped him get it. I certainly am not mad that this particular thing happened because I can understand the importance of it to everyone involved. It's just that he gets something good in general and here I am suffering.


Me (BW): 32
WH: 33 TimeToManUp
Married: 11 years, together 16 years
3 daughters: 9, 5, 3, and and 2 angel babies (2013 and 2014)
D-Day: 12/21/2011
Confronted him: 12/22/2011


Posts: 1728 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: New Jersey
Topic Posts: 39