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Reconciliation
User Topic: Cheater don't want to be cheated
mozzchops
Member
Member # 42896
Default  Posted: 11:02 AM, May 8th (Thursday)


I was talking to WW today and told her she doesn't feel cheating is *that* bad - as she was able to do it.

Her response "I do, and if I was on a dating site I feel like putting in the comments I will not accept being cheated on"



The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them.

Posts: 114 | Registered: Mar 2014
Unagie
Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 11:09 AM, May 8th (Thursday)

Is she remorseful? Just being honest here no one wants to be cheated on, even the cheater. Is it hypocritical? Yes it is but being a cheater doesn't make us any less human. We have plenty of cheaters here who were cheated on by the person they cheated on. We're called madhatters and it hurts like hell. So yes I can understand why a cheater doesn't want to be cheated on. I sure didn't want it to happen even though I felt I deserved it.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

"To be loyal to myself is to allow myself to grow and change, and challenge who I am and what I think."


Posts: 2727 | Registered: Oct 2012
mozzchops
Member
Member # 42896
Default  Posted: 11:13 AM, May 8th (Thursday)


Yes she is remorseful.
Just sometimes she doesn't *think* before she speaks.

Obviously nobody *wants* to be cheated on, but its the bare face cheek to say you woudn't tolerate it!

Its just full of hypocrisy.



The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them.

Posts: 114 | Registered: Mar 2014
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, May 8th (Thursday)

Its just full of hypocrisy.
Is it?

We all have different lives and different paths that led us to the reason we're card carrying members of SI.

I'll spare the melodrama and epic longness that I could spout. Suffice it to say, I grew up feeling worthless and loved only conditionally. My ex cheated on me our whole relationship. We were "only" dating. But it still hurt. He abused me. He manipulated me. And he cheated. The other girls were sprinkles on the crap cupcake.

Yes. I cheated on my husband. After Dday, I woke up. And for the first time in....well, ever, I started realizing what boundaries and self-love were. That I was more worthy of what I was given in the past. It wasn't my fault my ex was a jerk. That was on him. I couldn't make my FOO love/respect me. For the first time ever, I found my voice. And I stood up for myself.

My husband and I have been rebuilding. From the ashes of devastation. We've been to Hell and have been fighting our way back. So yeah, if he cheated on me after all I, and we, have been thru, I'd be pissed as fuck. And no, I wouldn't tolerate it. If that makes me a hypocrite to some people, whatever. Its a boundary for me. That's something I never had in the past. But I exercise them now. I cheated. However that does not define me. I've put in the hard work. Still am. And I'm worthy of love, honor, and fidelity.

Jmho


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6221 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
mozzchops
Member
Member # 42896
Default  Posted: 11:49 AM, May 8th (Thursday)


OK, madhatters aside than.



The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them.

Posts: 114 | Registered: Mar 2014
Unagie
Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 11:50 AM, May 8th (Thursday)

What Aubrie said in spades. I feel the same way. I have worked hard at being a better person and realizing my boundaries were crap most of my life. Now that I have them strongly in place I would not tolerate someone cheating on me. Not to say I would not consider R or forgiveness as it would depend on circumstances but I would not condone it or allow it to continue once I knew. If it did I'd be gone. The whole point of working on ourselves as waywards is to grow and learn. If I took all I learned and say hey I cheated before so now if someone cheats on me its okay i'll deal with it, well it seems silly to me.

ETA: I'm a madhatter but Aubrie isn't.

[This message edited by Unagie at 11:53 AM, May 8th (Thursday)]


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

"To be loyal to myself is to allow myself to grow and change, and challenge who I am and what I think."


Posts: 2727 | Registered: Oct 2012
mightsurvive
New Member
Member # 38794
Default  Posted: 11:55 AM, May 8th (Thursday)

My WH also says he wouldn't tolerate cheating. This is so confusing. What about the Golden Rule of treating others as you wish to be treated? Apparently I wasn't an actual real person at the time so it was ok to do to me. though I will never have a RA I wish there was a way for my WH to experience the true soul destroying pain of dday just for one day.

[This message edited by mightsurvive at 11:57 AM, May 8th (Thursday)]


BW 37-me
WH 40
Kids
Dday Dec 2011
Reconciling

Posts: 48 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: midwest
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 12:04 PM, May 8th (Thursday)

Apparently I wasn't an actual real person at the time so it was ok to do to me.
My cheating had absolutely nothing to do with QS and everything to do with me. He was unfortunately, collateral damage in my journey down the Tracks of Hell on the Crazy Train.

Was R hard? Heck yes. Did he feel disposable, degraded, and feel like running? Absolutely. However, he must have seen something within me worth staying for and I must have done something right. Cause he's still here. Who I am today is someone he loves. And he wants to stay.

[This message edited by Aubrie at 12:05 PM, May 8th (Thursday)]


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6221 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Tickingtock
Member
Member # 41411
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, May 8th (Thursday)

Her response "I do, and if I was on a dating site I feel like putting in the comments I will not accept being cheated on"

Who says that to the husband they cheated on? "If I was on a dating website, dear husband that I cheated on but still want to be with, I would put my high morals in the comments section."


Me: 31, exBGF, now married

Posts: 173 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: West Coast, USA
mozzchops
Member
Member # 42896
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, May 8th (Thursday)

Who says that to the husband they cheated on? "If I was on a dating website, dear husband that I cheated on but still want to be with, I would put my high morals in the comments section."

This is if she was single.



The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them.

Posts: 114 | Registered: Mar 2014
heartbroken2012
Member
Member # 38089
Default  Posted: 1:43 PM, May 8th (Thursday)

Yes my WH says that if I ever cheat on him, he will leave me immediately.

Hmm..


BS(Me) - 32
WS(HUbbie) - 40
OW - 44 (a ugly, old, white trash horse faced Coworker)
Affair was 2 months long
3 kids - 5yr old, and twins 8 months
Dday - 12/25/12 (lots of signs before I should have seen)

Posts: 549 | Registered: Jan 2013
Branca
Member
Member # 42837
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, May 8th (Thursday)

My WH told me earlier in our marriage that if I ever cheated on him, he would instantly and automatically end the relationship. He'd be outta there.

Well, now the shoe's on the other foot - he's cheated on me (well, almost, if you use his definition that only full sex counts as cheating)... he's now said that if I ever cheated on him he'd be devastated, but due to the kids etc, he'd probably think twice before leaving.


Me: BW, 36
Him: WH, 36
Married 13 years
2 children aged 9 and 5

DD #1 26 August 2013 - EA on FB and phone with a former flame OW#2 for about 8 months
DD #2 30 April 2014 - EA/PA for 10 months in 2011 with OW#1
Hoping for R


Posts: 119 | Registered: Mar 2014
soosorrymom
Member
Member # 24046
Default  Posted: 3:30 PM, May 8th (Thursday)

My BH is currently having an EA although he doesn't consider it that just texting he says . Hours and hours of texting .....
At first I thought as a ww I deserved it and the pain I felt was crippling . So yeah payback a bitch
However now that I am working so hard on myself and why I was broken I realize no one deserves that . RA solve nothing .
Instead of using this team to work on himself he is using it to boost his ego ( yes I know It's broken )

I still want to try and R but doubt he is willing to put in the work

Easy to say what we would put up with until it happens to us


me- FWS 40
Him- FBS 42
Married 13 years together 22years
2 amazing kids 12 & 8
DDay May 2008

Posts: 70 | Registered: May 2009
mozzchops
Member
Member # 42896
Default  Posted: 3:52 PM, May 8th (Thursday)


I'm not saying a cheater deservers to be cheated on.
No-one deservers to be cheated on.

I just find it hard to comprehend that a cheater wouldn't tolerate being cheated on. Especially so early on in the process.

I'm a logical guy. 2 weeks before WW cheated she told her girlfriends she felt very strongly against cheating/cheaters.

So WTF 2 weeks later she's doing it !



The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them.

Posts: 114 | Registered: Mar 2014
RidingHealingRd
Member
Member # 33867
Default  Posted: 4:08 PM, May 8th (Thursday)

I just find it hard to comprehend that a cheater wouldn't tolerate being cheated on

My WH ended his A with MOW when he realized that SHE was cheating on HIM. Yes, a cheater who would not tolerate cheating. Such an asshole.


ME: 54 BS
HIM: 61 WH
Married: 28 years
D'Day: 10/29/10
in R 3.5 years and it's working but he is putting 200% into it (as he should) to make it right again.

The truth hurts, but I have never seen it cause the pain that lies do.


Posts: 2109 | Registered: Nov 2011
ICECOLD
New Member
Member # 40258
Default  Posted: 4:24 PM, May 8th (Thursday)

If my husband told me he wouldn't stay if I cheated on him, I'd think "wtf am I doing slogging through this bs for you?!" Truthfully I'm 99.9% positive I wouldn't, but if those words came out his mouth, I'd walk out the door.

to me that shows how little he values what I'm sacrificing to stay

[This message edited by ICECOLD at 4:25 PM, May 8th (Thursday)]


"If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit."

"If you think the grass is greener, you're welcome to take a hike"

BS:47
WS:45
Kids

R: one foot in, and one foot out


Posts: 50 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Atlanta GA
whattheh
Member
Member # 40032
Default  Posted: 5:17 PM, May 8th (Thursday)

As you try to solve this puzzle just remember cheaters are their very core selfish. So for many of them the golden rule doesn't apply.


BW- mid 50's (me)
fWH-late 50's
M 33 T 35
DD-Early 2013 PA 2010
In R but I have PTSD...

Posts: 535 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
peoplepleaser
Member
Member # 41535
Default  Posted: 5:46 PM, May 8th (Thursday)

I totally see what you are saying, mozz. It's not that she doesn't have a right to prefer to be with someone who won't cheat, but to declare she would leave or "not tolerate" cheating must feel awful degrading. Yes, WSs are selfish as proven by their actions, but in R the goal should be an awakening from that. If my WS said that I would totally question what kind of respect they could possibly have for me. What value are they placing on me if they think that I am less worthy of what they would demand? Why would a relationship after infidelity he good enough for me as a BS, but not for them? It would also make me wonder what they "know" about cheating that I don't. What are they not sharing that would make it a deal breaker for them? I would consider the possibility that there is some kind of knowledge about how the infidelity occurred that BS's weren't given.

On the flip side, if they explained a bit more about that response it might be different. It might be that they have seen the devastation and are impressed by the strength of their BS. Maybe they have the belief that they wouldn't be as strong as their BS.

This seems to me like an opportunity for a longer discussion that could lead to a greater understanding of each other. Whether it was a mindless statement, something that slipped out to reveal more information or a hidden compliment it seems worth exploring.


WS: 39--2 EAs
BS: 39--me, faithful
DS: 6
9 year relationship in R.
DDay #1: September 6, 2013 EA for 5 weeks August 2013.
DDay #2: January 2, 2014 EA for 6 weeks summer 2011.
"I am still learning." -Michelangelo

Posts: 609 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Midwest
peoplepleaser
Member
Member # 41535
Default  Posted: 5:56 PM, May 8th (Thursday)

And I couldn't let that go, soosorrymom. I agree nobody deserves to be cheated on. I don't want to offend any madhatters or repeat offenders out there, but I feel very strongly that once you've experienced first-hand the devastation infidelity causes, it's especially heinous to engage in it. Hours of texting someone is ultimately long distance dating. Whether romantic overtones are present or not, sharing so much personal information with someone outside the relationship is damaging. It reverses doors and windows and it is an emotional affair. That amount of time is taken away from healing and maintaining the marriage. If you two haven't read Not Just Friends, please do. I have friends I confide in, but my WS knows everything we discuss and I stopped spending hours talking with them when we decided to R. And they do not fit the profile of anyone I would be attracted to (even if they did I might argue that point because I have excellent boundaries and always have when it comes to others showing interest--but that might also explain my Natural choices in whom I confide). While it's completely healthy to have friends in whom we confide, it's disrespectful to give it that much time and energy, especially when it bothers our partner and doubly so when recovering from infidelity regardless of your role as BS or WS.

Hugs to you as you navigate this situation.


WS: 39--2 EAs
BS: 39--me, faithful
DS: 6
9 year relationship in R.
DDay #1: September 6, 2013 EA for 5 weeks August 2013.
DDay #2: January 2, 2014 EA for 6 weeks summer 2011.
"I am still learning." -Michelangelo

Posts: 609 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Midwest
soosorrymom
Member
Member # 24046
Default  Posted: 6:21 PM, May 8th (Thursday)

Thank you people pleaser
Yes I have read not just friends . BH suggested I read it early on . I wish he would have also read it .
I doubt his hours of texting is to a friend since it's not a local number and someone he never contacted before .


me- FWS 40
Him- FBS 42
Married 13 years together 22years
2 amazing kids 12 & 8
DDay May 2008

Posts: 70 | Registered: May 2009
Unagie
Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 6:29 PM, May 8th (Thursday)

Couple of things. The reason I asked if she was remorseful was because she is talking to her BH about what she'd put on a dating site, that doesn't read remorse to me.

Second thing:

I just find it hard to comprehend that a cheater wouldn't tolerate being cheated on

Why should I as someone who cheated tolerate being cheated on. I think im reading this wrong or something. I am reading this as a cheater gets cheated on and they dont deserve it but they should tolerate it if it happens. Why? If they are unremorseful and have made no changes then no I dont get it but if this is a remorseful former cheater who has made changes and is healing then no I dont see them not tolerating cheating as a crazy thing. Once again not tolerating it to me means not standing for being with someone actively cheating on me. If someone did I would (and have) try to forgive and R if remorse was there.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

"To be loyal to myself is to allow myself to grow and change, and challenge who I am and what I think."


Posts: 2727 | Registered: Oct 2012
heartbroken0903
Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 6:50 PM, May 8th (Thursday)

I as a WS never "demanded" R (to paraphrase from a post upthread) and I don't actually think *any* truly remorseful WS "demands" R or demands that their BS do anything really. Every remorseful WS I've ever seen/read about here is grateful for their chance to repair and rebuild, and grateful that their BS is still with them and working on it.

That said, everyone is different and even a former cheater might leave if the shoe ended up on the other foot. I don't believe anyone is "obligated" to reconcile with a cheater ever...even and including if they once cheated.

[This message edited by heartbroken0903 at 6:51 PM, May 8th (Thursday)]


Me: XWS, 30s, 5-month EA/PA in '09-'10
Husband: XBS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciled and remarried.


Posts: 2129 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
Aubrie
Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 7:35 PM, May 8th (Thursday)

What value are they placing on me if they think that I am less worthy of what they would demand?
I demanded nothing from my BH. When I confessed, I was completely prepared to walk out the door if he wanted me out of his life. Didn't happen. So I stayed. There were no demands on my part.

Every day he gives me is a gift that I cherish. I fully understand is struggle in the aftermath. I was there every step of the way. No human should have to go thru that kind of pain. I'm very grateful he wanted to repair our marriage with me.

As far as the whole "eye for an eye" mindset... If you truly feel that way, why stay? A healed marriage has no place for vengeance and resentment. If the BS says, "I want R", that doesn't include "evening the score".


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6221 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 5:47 AM, May 9th (Friday)

I do think it's a bit hypocritical.


If I were to cheat on my husband 10 years from now..I would not EXPECT him to try to R with me...but I sure as Hell would be hurt if he chose not to. For the last 4 years I have dealt with TT, a 2nd dday that I found out 6 months later was NOT a dday due to major TT, but a dday that he gave me because I wouldn't stop asking what I didn't know..so he made something up! I've dealt with his pity parties..his "memememe" selfish attitude...his refusal to get tested for STD's for the first few months, porn,porn,and more porn(he is a porn addict)...trying to get him to go to IC (he was ashamed and embarrassed, but knew he needed to go...I had to push it)...I've had to fight MYSELF every day...because I stayed with a man who did this to me...I have triggered..and dealt with it alone...he refused to answer questions...hell for the fist 2.5 years after dday I was bleeding out, until I finally said no more..then he suddenly turned around and started doing everything that he should have done(and he continues to be that man today).

I have eaten one Hell of a shit sandwich.


Yes...I could have left. It was my choice to stay. However, I also had nowhere to go, a chronic pain condition that makes working difficult, and kids at home, so while I could have left, I really couldn't. And he knew this.It worked to his advantage for awhile.

But..if in 10 years my life spirals down..and I made the same bad choices that waywards make...if he were to tell me he was leaving, there would be no R...wow. That would absolutely shatter me.

It would make me feel like I wasn't worth being faithful to...and now Im not even worth the hard work it would take to R. The same hard work I put into him and the marriage when he fucked up.

[This message edited by confused615 at 5:48 AM, May 9th (Friday)]


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids..21,20,11,10
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7395 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
bionicgal
Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 8:34 AM, May 9th (Friday)

Everyone deserves fidelity. Ironically, even cheaters.

In a way, isn't your wife validating your painful experience? She wasn't saying, "If you cheat on me, I'm outta here," she was saying, "Theoretically, cheating is a deal breaker for me." Now, why she put it in this weird, hypothetical way is a little perplexing. (If my H were to be speculating on what he'd put on a dating site, my red flags would go up), but I don't know if her sentiment in and of itself is unfair.

Is she supposed to feel like it is ok to be cheated on, since she did it?


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is more like a mental break than a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 1944 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
20WrongsVs1
Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 8:50 AM, May 9th (Friday)

^^ x2


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1165 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
mozzchops
Member
Member # 42896
Default  Posted: 9:17 AM, May 9th (Friday)

Is she supposed to feel like it is ok to be cheated on, since she did it?

No that's not my point.
My point is the hypocrisy of someone who is a repeat offender and just over 6 months out can say such a thing.

[This message edited by mozzchops at 9:32 AM, May 9th (Friday)]



The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them.

Posts: 114 | Registered: Mar 2014
sisoon
Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 9:33 AM, May 9th (Friday)

mozz,

IMO, thinking this is 'hypocrisy' - which it certainly looks like - doesn't help the BS heal, and BS healing is paramount to me.

Focusing on the WS's failures sets up a thought process something like, 'If my WS changes morally, I'll heal.'

I think it's much more accurate to think this double standard is a reflection of the WS's loss of touch with reality. They don't see that the world is better off when we don't do to others what we don't want them to do to us.

That leaves you to heal yourself by dealing with your thoughts, feelings and desires, and it leaves the WS to heal by getting back in touch with reality - owning what they did, making amends, changing from cheater to good partner.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10057 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
Topic Posts: 28