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User Topic: Are these mutually exclusive? I feel sick.
AmberDust
Member
Member # 38904
Default  Posted: 4:11 AM, May 13th (Tuesday)

I think my H is not totally out of the fog; he said he is totally committed to our M now, but in case we’re not together anymore he “can’t guarantee anything” and might lookup OW out of curiosity and because he is weak.
This makes me sick, makes me feel humiliated all over again, and makes me feel I should not be with him.
I told him he should have more self-respect, and shouldn’t want to look her up anytime in his life ever again, if only for how she helped him hurt me and the kids.
To me, being committed now and still somehow being able to forgive OW are mutually exclusive.

Posts: 723 | Registered: Apr 2013
lovehonorcherish
Member
Member # 41843
Default  Posted: 5:33 AM, May 13th (Tuesday)

I hear you, AmberDust! It completely blows my mind that any wandering spouse would want to go back to the AP that assisted in the destruction of a marriage (or two if the AP is married as well!) I have never been able to wrap my mind around the fact that a WS and AP actually think they have something "special". All they really have between them is dishonesty, deceit, and selfishness...not one thing to build a real relationship upon. And yes...it is humiliating, insulting and totally mind boggling when they end up together

[This message edited by lovehonorcherish at 2:35 PM, May 13th (Tuesday)]


I am no longer accepting the things I cannot change...I am changing the things I cannot accept.

Posts: 125 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Northeastern US
AmberDust
Member
Member # 38904
Default  Posted: 5:38 AM, May 13th (Tuesday)

Would you stay with your spouse if he told you this?

[This message edited by AmberDust at 5:45 AM, May 13th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 723 | Registered: Apr 2013
Whalers11
Member
Member # 27544
Default  Posted: 5:47 AM, May 13th (Tuesday)

I think maybe you are focusing on the wrong thing here... to me, its sounds like he's planning to cheat again and he's telling you now in a roundabout way so when it does happen and you find out, he can just say, "Well, I told you this was going to happen!"


Me: BGF - 33
Together 11+ years - not married, no children.
D-Day: 2/9/2010
OC Born: 10/9/2010
Status: He chose OW/OC and left immediately.

Posts: 2260 | Registered: Feb 2010
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 5:53 AM, May 13th (Tuesday)

Would you stay with your spouse if he told you this?

nope.

ask him why he'd want anything to do with someone who helped him steamroll your heart. He can't have any positive thoughts about this person.


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5280 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
Amazonia
Member
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 5:53 AM, May 13th (Tuesday)

Would you stay with your spouse if he told you this?

I don't think I could base it on one statement, but generally, it sounds like your husband is a very emotionally weak man. He's basically saying that he won't (or can't) be alone. Kind of pathetic...


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13801 | Registered: Jul 2011
AmberDust
Member
Member # 38904
Default  Posted: 5:54 AM, May 13th (Tuesday)

I am inclined to believe he is not out to cheat again. He has been to IC and has found his FOO-issues, is transparent. He says he is committed to me, never ever wants to leave me and doesn't even want to focus on this hypothetical situation. It doesn't focus on our M so it is not in the interest of R. When we are divorced it is because I have decided to leave, and then it shouldn't matter to either one of us what the other is doing or whom they are seeing.

But- what I don't understand is- If you can tell me that your OW is bad news, has done X, Y and Z that is wrong, and never should be contacted again, then why are you able to tell yourself that after D it is ok again? I just don't get the see-saw of it all- NO during M, YES any other time?


Posts: 723 | Registered: Apr 2013
AmberDust
Member
Member # 38904
Default  Posted: 5:59 AM, May 13th (Tuesday)

ask him why he'd want anything to do with someone who helped him steamroll your heart. He can't have any positive thoughts about this person.

He denies having any feelings for her, but can't explain why he would then feel it is ok. Curiosity? Loneliness and his search for validation?
He knows it would be an insult to me and the children, and yet can't say "never again".


Posts: 723 | Registered: Apr 2013
DepressedDaddy
Member
Member # 41521
Default  Posted: 5:59 AM, May 13th (Tuesday)

I agree with some of the other posts. Sounds like he is setting up his excuse. He can now always say, "I told you that I might not be strong enough. Oh well, sorry, please stay with me."

The way these people's minds work is baffling! It just doesn't make any sense. I couldn't take it anymore and said that I was done.


Since D I have become DDaddy 2.0 - or better known as DevotedDaddy

“Optimism is a strategy for making a better future. Because unless you believe that the future can be better, you are unlikely to step up and take responsibility for making it so."


Posts: 813 | Registered: Dec 2013
Credence
Member
Member # 42682
Default  Posted: 6:18 AM, May 13th (Tuesday)

I just don't get the see-saw of it all- NO during M, YES any other time?
It sounds like he is still very much in the fog. Right now it's NO during the marriage because it's forbidden but after D, it would no longer be forbidden and then he would be free to pursue her without consequence. I don't think he's detached completely yet and has a whole lot more work to do if he's ever going to 'get it'.


If you keep doing what you've always done, you'll keep getting what you always got

Posts: 183 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: UK
RockyMtn
Member
Member # 37043
Default  Posted: 6:54 AM, May 13th (Tuesday)

I don't know if he's in the fog. I also don't know if he's necessarily lining up an excuse. My thoughts are that he's being an asshole. Sometimes comments don't have an ulterior motive, they are just coming from a selfish reservoir that all cheater have and may not shed overnight. He's hitting you where it hurts for one reason or another. Do you think he's feeling fatigued by the hard work? Resentful,of any of your R requests? This comment alone doesn't mean he's not in R or working hard. But he's still got a long ways to go.

Personally, I don't read that much into it, except being a jerk.


Me, BS, 30s
Him, WS, 30s, Steppenwolf
Kids: Yep
D-Day 1: September 2011, 6 week EA
D-Day 2: January 2013, discovered EA was a PA; there was another PA in 2010. All TT.
Goal = serenity.

Posts: 667 | Registered: Oct 2012
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 7:38 AM, May 13th (Tuesday)

It sounds like he is still very much in the fog.

My H kept breaking NC and his OW was more than happy to encourage it. When I asked how come he kept hurting me to my core, he told me she was his back up plan. WTF??? This was actually a big step in his figuring out why. This prompted a whole day's worth of conversation as to why he would need a back up plan, why did he feel he needed to have any woman, and would allow himself to settle for someone with such crappy values, should I say I'm done.

This was when he figured out that he needed to find his own worth within, and learn to be happy being himself, and learn that he can be alone, and strong, and complete. You see since we had been together since we were kids, he had never been "alone" as an adult. He went straight from Mom and Dad to me, to never proving he could be complete, happy, and independent. He felt that need for back up. As he healed and started doing the work to figure out how he could become this way, he started healing. His feelings toward her changed completely. It freaking hurt like hell that he wouldn't be angry with her, and didn't hate her with me. But we both had a lot of growing to do.

About 6 months into R I realized his feelings for her, and what he and she had done, and what he had allowed himself to do sickened him and he developed some real hatred for her. This was a relief for me, but it also saddened me, because not only did he hate her, he hated himself.

I think you may just be at the beginning stages of the fog clearing, and it's such a change from the full fog that you are relieved, but this little hang up is something that he needs to explore and understand. It will help him to reach an understanding of his Why's.

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8714 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
NaiveAgain
Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 7:56 AM, May 13th (Tuesday)

I agree with tushnurse. He hasn't figured out his core reasons yet. Too weak is a BS excuse...it just means I haven't done the hard work to strengthen myself and figure out what makes me make bad decisions.

My WS said something similar well into reconciliation. He knew 100% that he did not want his EA partner, (an old ex) and that he didn't love her, but I had asked a hypothetical question of "What would you do if you saw her out in the store?" He felt that there was a chance that he would actually go up to her and make small talk. I was hurt and furious. Why would he talk to the ho that had caused so much trouble between us?

We argued about that for a month. He posted on here about it. He got upset (at himself) because he couldn't figure out why he would feel compelled to ask her how she was doing and just make some small, polite talk with her.

We talked and talked and talked until he finally realized that he is a people pleaser and he has to have everyone like him. He was raised in a small town and if you see someone you know, you have to go say hi. Turning your back and avoiding is rude and bad manners. And he really felt the need to have everyone like him.

We worked thru those issues together and he worked thru it some in counseling. We talked and talked and it took him a while, but he finally came to the realization that if he saw her, he could turn his back and walk away, and he didn't NEED her approval.

It was devastating to me until he could finally get to that point, and I made it clear I would not commit my heart back to him until he had worked thru that issue. He didn't have his priorities straight. It took him a while.

Talk to your guy a lot about this. Let him know how this tears you up inside. Let him know you don't feel safe with the fact that he still has enough feelings towards her that he would even consider talking to her again at some point.

What he does if you two split up does matter. Because it shows he doesn't quite get it yet and he doesn't have the self worth to stay away from someone who is a selfish cheater who will hurt others for their own gratification. He can't be the partner you need until he has the strength to make the good decisions whether you are in his life or not.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 15291 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
suckstobeme
Member
Member # 30853
Default  Posted: 8:56 AM, May 13th (Tuesday)

Wow.

I tend to believe that he said that because he wants to keep you in a position of weakness. He wants to plant the seed in your mind that you better be on your toes and you better put 1,000 percent into the M or else he will be alone and he will look her up again. He knows that even if you broke up, the last person in the world you would want him to be with is HER. To me, it was a threat and it was a way to continue to sling blame toward you. He wants you to always dance to his drum rather than him doing everything he can to dance to yours during the healing process.

To answer your question, I would not stay with a man who cheated on me, saw how much he destroyed me, and was so easily able to make such a hurtful comment. He's not out of the fog. He may not be cheating anymore, but he's like a dry drunk - he quit, but the lack of introspection and failure to do the real work to change his core is just setting himself up for another epic fall.

I'm sorry he said that.


BW - me
ExWH - "that one"
D - 2011
You get what you put in, and people get what they deserve.
Hard as it may be, try to never give the OP any of your power or head space.

Posts: 2840 | Registered: Jan 2011
LifeIsTooWeird
Member
Member # 42093
Default  Posted: 9:36 AM, May 13th (Tuesday)

I heard "I can't guarantee this or that" a lot in the first 3-4 months after confession. Then one day the wording of those statements changed to "I promise I won't do this or that". Of course it was hard to buy the shift in wording at first, but after abit I realized, when he used the words I can't guarantee, she still had a hold on his mind, when he started saying I promise you, she had no power over his mind anymore.

They say some things that are hard to hear and every little word is viewed as an attack on us during this time. If he's working towards repairing your relationship, his wording will change one day too, and most likely he won't even remember saying some of these things you'll struggle so hard to forget hearing.

[This message edited by LifeIsTooWeird at 9:38 AM, May 13th (Tuesday)]


Me - GF (38)
Him - BF (33)
DDay - 08/13
Together 8 Years
In R

Posts: 133 | Registered: Jan 2014
GabyBaby
Member
Member # 26928
Default  Posted: 11:05 AM, May 13th (Tuesday)

He wants to plant the seed in your mind that you better be on your toes and you better put 1,000 percent into the M or else he will be alone and he will look her up again. He knows that even if you broke up, the last person in the world you would want him to be with is HER. To me, it was a threat and it was a way to continue to sling blame toward you.

OMG this!
He is playing you like a fiddle and it is quite deliberate.

No, I would not stay. He isn't all in, but he sure as heck expects YOU to be.


Me - 42
SorryInSac (WH#2) - 47. DDay 7/12/14
Married 4, together 7yrs total
Status - Stick a fork in me...

DD(21), DS(18, PDD-NOS)
6 Furkids - 4 dogs, 2 cats

WXH (serial cheater, 12+ OW) - Legally married 18yrs

I edit often for clarity.


Posts: 6535 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: California
LearningToRun
Member
Member # 31353
Default  Posted: 11:18 AM, May 13th (Tuesday)

Anyone who would say this to me does not deserve my effort.

How can you be "totally committed" but "cant guarantee anything"? you cant. You are correct, they are mutually exclusive and only the second one is him telling the truth.

What does your gut say? Your gut says this:

This makes me sick, makes me feel humiliated all over again, and makes me feel I should not be with him.

Trust your gut. Its telling you what to do.


Posts: 274 | Registered: Feb 2011
NeverAgain2013
Member
Member # 38121
Default  Posted: 1:36 PM, May 13th (Tuesday)

Well Amber, I refuse to use the word 'fog' because I don't believe in a mystical, magical mist that makes people behave differently than they normally would.

I refer to that simply as 'asshole behavior,' and that's what your husand is displaying.

He's not in it to win it. He's saying as long as he's there with you and you jump around like a trained seal catering to him, he'll give it a shot with you. But hey - if you start slacking off and the opportunity arises down the road for him to go in a different direction, then he's going to take advantage of that.

If it were me? I'd tell him his opportunity to begin exploring starts right NOW - and I'd open the door for his self-important ass and throw his crap out after him.


Be careful - that 'knight in shining armor' may very well be nothing more than an assclown wrapped in tin foil.
ME: 50+ years old and cute as a button :-)
Ex-WBF: Just a lying, cheating, gravy-sucking pig - and I left him in 2012.

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: USA
AmberDust
Member
Member # 38904
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, May 15th (Thursday)

I went to IC this morning. The counselor feels I am giving OW too much headspace, which is true. When I stop doing that and feel secure in my M, I won't care about (whatever my H feels about) OW, because he has then been able to let me know and show me with his actions, that he is committed to me and will never feel the urge to seek validation outside the M, and with that, making OW unimportant.

However, I had trouble making her see, that my H realizing OW is bad blood, and needs to be avoided now and forever, is essential to me. That to me, it is part of his being able to distinguish between right and wrong. IC wanted to focus on the M. I told her I couldn't, because him being ok with OW's actions, whether it is now or in the future, leaves me little M to focus on.

My next appointment is next week. I hope to make that the start of our MC. We haven't had any MC, ever. So even though DD2 is a year ago, it's still an open wound and not even beginning to look like a scar.


Posts: 723 | Registered: Apr 2013
Ready_to_run
Member
Member # 20954
Default  Posted: 9:20 AM, May 15th (Thursday)

Affairs are addictions. Your WH is an addict so yes he is going to feel tempted to look her or probably other women up again. Is he in recovery? What active steps is he taking to keep himself accountable? Does he WANT to get better? IMO if he is not clear on this last question then its time for action on your part.


BH
Divorced


Posts: 750 | Registered: Sep 2008
OutoftheDeep
Member
Member # 42601
Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, May 15th (Thursday)

You have every right to feel threatened by that statement. He is making an excuse for WHEN not if you find her name in his search history or whatever. Then he will want a cookie because he was "honest" and warned you beforehand.

I think you are right and your IC is wrong in her opinion about you giving OW too much headspace. Like any of us choose that. When a WH is basically saying you might as well watch out for more contact or at the very least, attention paid to OW in the form of "looking her up", obviously you are going to be vigilant about OW. Just what is your IC recommendation for skipping along in your day with no thought of OW in a situation like this?


Me - maybe BW 40s
He - maybe WH 40s
My mother was always the OW
ExWH in first M had lta.
Current marriage:
2/'13 out all night with an ow
2/'13 busted at strip club
4/'14-? bad boundaries w/howorker

Posts: 377 | Registered: Feb 2014
nomadlady
Member
Member # 41090
Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, May 15th (Thursday)

I had a similar reaction as suckstobeme. I saw his words as a veiled threat. I'm sorry but these are not the words of a truly remorseful person. "I'm all in baby, really...but, uh, if you make this too difficult or leave me, then I'll go back to the OW who helped me stab you in the heart and blow up your world. Just sayin."


DDay: 2013
In R

Posts: 84 | Registered: Oct 2013
AmberDust
Member
Member # 38904
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, May 15th (Thursday)

Is he in recovery? What active steps is he taking to keep himself accountable?

I am not sure there are any. He went to IC- I think he has more "work" to do.
Can you give me examples of this?
He said he has learned that he needs to resolve any issues he has with me, not with any OW. That's as far as it goes, at this moment. But then, we haven't been in MC either so this never really came up anymore. But as I said, IC said we need to focus on strengthening our M so there won't even be any need for him to look for outside validation, because then he will feel validated by me.

I have asked him to go see an IC for himself, again, to figure out why he is telling me this crap. He said yes. So that is a good thing in itself.

"...but, uh, if you make this too difficult or leave me, then I'll go back to the OW who helped me stab you in the heart and blow up your world. Just sayin."

That's it exactly!
What kind of signal is that to our daughter and son? Being a no-morals selfish stab-in-the-back OW is ok after all, and all the hurt I put our family through- oh well... who cares"?

[This message edited by AmberDust at 10:24 AM, May 15th (Thursday)]


Posts: 723 | Registered: Apr 2013
philly172
Member
Member # 19024
Default  Posted: 12:00 PM, May 15th (Thursday)


You are right.. your WH is not totally out of the fog BUT the statement he made is simply fog talk.. Yes, I agree it's 100% wrong & I would have a hard time with the statement as it appears he isn't totally over OW. but if he hasn't acted on it then I would just be hyper vigilant in watching him & if he does break NC in any little way.. then you do something about it.

When my WH was deep in the fog I can't tell you how many times he told me that he had strong feelings for OW, strong feelings that wouldn't go away ( his words were NEVER) .. it hurt like hell to hear that.. especially when he did break NC ( once) & went to meet her , the pull was just that strong..

BUT once he came out of the fog & committed to the M he had many chances to break NC (co workers trying to get him to talk to OW, OW fishing etc) he NEVER broke NC & made sure I was aware of all of these fishing attempts..


"Sorry" works when a mistake is made, but not when trust is broken. So in life, make mistakes, but never break trust. Because forgiving is easy, but forgetting & trusting again is sometimes impossible

Posts: 4784 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Not in Philly.. it's just a screen name :-)
Topic Posts: 24