User Topic: "Complete Truth"
Member # 19517
Default  Posted: 5:30 AM, May 29th (Thursday)

Another thread which subject was a similar situation to my own caused me to start this one.

In my own experience, my WW "confessed" that the OM was "better in bed" than me. He was endowed with larger anatomy and a better physique. This came as volunteered information, not as something I asked about.

This became a huge point between us which was never really overcome. For a long time after her "confession", I would be largely unable to complete the sexual act. In the majority of cases, I would achieve an erection, but upon attempting to penetrate her, it would go flaccid within a few seconds.

The thoughts in my mind were that she would never be pleased with me again.

My situation is decades over. My WW passed away about 4 years after DD, the last 3-1/2 years between us were completely sexless, even though I managed on a couple of occasions to complete.

I have carried these feelings into two more marriages. It was not so damaging in the first because I married a woman who was not very experienced and had low expectations.

However, in my second marriage, in our late 50s and 60s, my sexual abilities are diminished due to diabetes and heart disease and the use of beta blockers to keep my blood pressure down. This has really become a source of significant pain again.
My current W is not interested in sex, and I think
it's because she had lovers in her past who were "better" than me.

My question is this. Is "complete truth" really desirable, in all cases, and at all demands?

If I cheated on my wife, would I want to come home and tell her how beautiful my AP was?

Are those details better left out of the "mix"?

Do they fit into the "Rahab" category of lies? Where the greater good is served by not giving the unvarnished truth?

[This message edited by tfkeel at 5:32 AM, May 29th (Thursday)]

Posts: 596 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Pennsylvania
Member # 42858
Default  Posted: 5:38 AM, May 29th (Thursday)

Volunteering this information was selfish IMHO. How cruel to tell ur H that AP was a better lover. U and ur body responded the way a broken psyche would for any man.

My WW never did they , thankfully. The few times we tried to have sex after were difficult and I personally had flashes of her with the AP. That was a mood crusher for me.

Ur WW destroyed the intimacy in ur M. If you had specifically asked for these type details then totally honesty would be expected but to volunteer these knowing it would fully be at your expense was cruel in my opinion.

I never realized you could be in this much pain and not be dying.

Posts: 700 | Registered: Mar 2014
Member # 39439
Default  Posted: 5:49 AM, May 29th (Thursday)

I agree. That was cruel and unnecessary. If my WS told me that the AP was better in bed, I think I would be gone. After the lying, cheating and degradation that would probably put me over the top. And trust me, just because he was bigger doesn't mean he was better. Your late spouse probably got that confused with the fact that it was exciting because it was illicit. Or, she was deliberately saying it to hurt you. IMHO, there is no better sex then when there is real honest to goodness love involved. Whether it's kinky or just plain old sex, if there's love, it's making love and it is special beyond words. I am so sorry that your late wife said those unbelievably cruel words to you.

And remember Murphy is right. Nothing is so bad that it can't get worse!!!

Posts: 1396 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Ontario, Canada
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 5:51 AM, May 29th (Thursday)

I think when a WW tells you this you need to move on. Some things are too debilitating. She needs to be divorced.

BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013

Posts: 546 | Registered: Mar 2013
Member # 41347
Default  Posted: 5:55 AM, May 29th (Thursday)

Should I ask my WW this?

I am now nothing by a mere Ronin.

Posts: 1041 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Maryland
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 6:27 AM, May 29th (Thursday)

Tfkeel have you told your doctor? Beta blockers aren't the only blood pressure control mess. Alpha blockers, calcium channel blockers are available without the damage to the equipment.

Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
Member # 19517
Default  Posted: 6:37 AM, May 29th (Thursday)

We tried a different beta-blocker for a while. Some of my sexual ability came back. However, the BP was too high on it and he wanted me to switch back.

I already take a calcium-channel blocker, as well as long-acting nitrates for angina, so viagra, etc, is not useable.

Should I ask my WW this?

I sure wouldn't recommend it. In fact, I'd have to come down on the side of diplomacy on her part even if you did ask.

Posts: 596 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Pennsylvania
Member # 38089
Default  Posted: 6:39 AM, May 29th (Thursday)

The OW in our situation told her BH that my husband was the "greatest sex she has ever had". She just offered that information to him. (I know this by her telling my husband thats what she told him, and later confirming that the OW told her BH that by the BH himself).

What a cruel and horrible thing to say.

BS(Me) - 32
WS(HUbbie) - 40
OW - 44 (a ugly, old, white trash horse faced Coworker)
Affair was 2 months long
3 kids - 5yr old, and twins 8 months
Dday - 12/25/12 (lots of signs before I should have seen)

Posts: 557 | Registered: Jan 2013
Member # 43459
Default  Posted: 7:00 AM, May 29th (Thursday)

I feel the act of infidelity is a selfish and cruel act right from the start. It is far better to leave a relationship "first" - and then move on to other relationships "after".

To compound the original selfish and cruel act with more selfishness and cruelty - is beyond understanding. As if the original act was not abusive enough - adding more abuse goes beyond reason.

If a BS decides they need certain details to help them process and understand - that is one thing. To voluntarily offer hurtful details shows a certain character of the WS - full of disrespect and disregard to the feelings of the one damaged.

I also feel the withholding of the details when asked is also just as counterproductive and cruel.

In my case my "wayward" wanted my forgiveness when "D-Day" happened. But she was not willing to provide details and just wanted to try and forget it. That might be easy for her - but not so easy for me. To dismiss the reality of what happened and marginalize her involvement with another man showed abuse and cruelty. How was I to know what I was forgiving her for?

When it seemed forgiveness did not happen within minutes - she decided it would be too much work - planned a new course of action - and continued to be cruel. She then dismissed our relationship and tried to make me the one to blame for everything. Once again - more cruelty.

She finally told me she needed time to think everything through and she would contact me when she is done. She left me in an indefinite limbo.

Can you say "More Cruelty"?

The cruelty does not end.

While she is "thinking" - the OP is still around - even though she said he was not. She hides the truth and provides only lies.

I know I will never hear from her again. She was strong enough to knowingly and willingly cause the trouble in the first place - but too weak to face up to the consequences of her actions.

We should be told "what we need" - and nothing more - and nothing less. Is it not already enough to process?

- BlackHorse.

[This message edited by BlackHorse at 7:08 AM, May 29th (Thursday)]

Not together long enough - too many long separations due to her continuing medical issues.
Me - Canadian.
She - American.
Both of us in our fifties.
D-Day - 04/30/14 (while she was away seeking medical assistance in her homeland)

Posts: 82 | Registered: May 2014 | From: The West Coast of Canada
Member # 18662
Default  Posted: 10:28 AM, May 29th (Thursday)

Yep, this is a big problem with asking for full disclosure when the WS is not quite ready for it.

I has similar experience, not that brutal but still painful, it was sort of you want full honesty you will have it. Luckily after this conversation she "got it" but still the damage was done.

I would say the lesson is to wait when to push for the Big Conversation, it may be better to wait till he/she is remorseful, than to push it when still in the regret phase

Me BH 50, seemingly married happily 25 years
Wife 47, had 3 PA affair, last one developed as EA but then turned PA and sporadic meeting 2 times a year at conferences but lasted for 8 years. Trying to reconcile.

Posts: 70 | Registered: Mar 2008
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 10:45 AM, May 29th (Thursday)

Sometimes *truth* can be used to punish.

My WW has done this to me.

She would blurt out details of her affair phrased in the most hurtful manner possible. I believe she did this to make me reluctant to ask questions she didnt want to answer.

Once I asked a question (I forget about what) and she was brutal in her answer. Telling me more than I asked about in horrible and pain inflicting terms. then she said *there.. arent you glad you asked*

Maybe it was her own pain over what she did that made her lash out at me. I will never know for sure.

I just wanted to say that what your WW said may not have even been the truth. It could be she was angry at herself or you and she lashed out as a way to avoid having to relive old memories.

Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.

Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.
Friedrich Nietzsche

Posts: 3483 | Registered: Sep 2007
Member # 42867
Default  Posted: 11:06 AM, May 29th (Thursday)

I asked my wife the questions on dday. She didn't pull punches with the answers, in contrast she leaned into it. It has been a source of frustration that there were other questions she lied in response to that night to "protect me." Not an hour goes by that I don't think about that comparison. Every hour of every day, caused by the person I trusted more than any one else to tell me the truth.

Three days later when I went through text messages, the content there fully reinforced what she said.

There are a lot of issues we are dealing with in attempting to build something out what is left of our marriage. They are hard, some crazy hard. But I like our chances on every other issue.

This comparison, particularly my feeling that what she said is true will be the undoing of the M if it fails. As hard as this is to believe, I still don't regret getting the truth. I wish she had framed true answer in a more loving way, but there are a lot of things I wish...

Simply moving on won't resolve the problems created by what she did and said. There is disrespect and contempt in spades, and I've got some serious healing to do with or without WW. I think tfkeel's story can attest to that.

In contrast to some of above stories, the HB has been very good. WW agrees, and I believe her. That does help, but it doesn't kill the gorilla in the room.

Great topic, I hope more folks join in with thoughts on what has helped.

No matter how painful, life either adapts or it dies.

BH (Me) 49
WW 48
Married 1985
D-Day Mar 19, 2014
1 year passionate EA/PA, ended by me on d-day.
Attempting to R

Posts: 256 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
Member # 42185
Default  Posted: 11:34 AM, May 29th (Thursday)

How hurtful, tfkeel. It does sound like she said that to wound you. I can't imagine why else she would have said that. When I was digging and digging for answers I asked my H whether he ever told AP she was beautiful. He confessed that he had. I lost it. For some reason that was way too much for me. It still stings. Of course since then, I'm miles above her, blah, blah, but I'll always wonder whether he's just back pedaling. I stopped asking about specific details after that. I knew I couldn't handle them.

BW: me (38)
WH: 43
OW: false "friend"
D-Day: 11/29/13 (4 month EA discovered); 12/19/13 (discovered was also PA); TT thru 2/14
Married: 2001; Together for nearly 20 years
2 beautiful young kids

Posts: 571 | Registered: Jan 2014
Member # 18662
Default  Posted: 11:46 AM, May 29th (Thursday)

Yes it is all tricky. We all hope they will see the light and will hate the AP. But the banal truth is often that they thought hard and long whether to leave and stay, decided to stay with us, because of the overall balance of pros and cons. This does not change the fact that there very MANY things that did attract them to AP, and not all of them were false and disappeared with DDay.
This all wanting to know The Truth thing can be a dangerous game. The truth may be hard to handle. Still I cannot change the fact that I do want to have it all!

Me BH 50, seemingly married happily 25 years
Wife 47, had 3 PA affair, last one developed as EA but then turned PA and sporadic meeting 2 times a year at conferences but lasted for 8 years. Trying to reconcile.

Posts: 70 | Registered: Mar 2008
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 11:55 AM, May 29th (Thursday)

This all wanting to know The Truth thing can be a dangerous game. The truth may be hard to handle. Still I cannot change the fact that I do want to have it all!


we cant make smart decisions about our life and the path we take without the truth. even if its hard to hear IMO its necessary.

WS that try to *protect* us are instead controlling us by parsing the truth such that it steers us toward their desired outcome.

Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.

Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.
Friedrich Nietzsche

Posts: 3483 | Registered: Sep 2007
Member # 40715
Default  Posted: 5:48 PM, May 29th (Thursday)

I do think when asking questions it really is a case of 'Be careful what you ask for 'cos you might just get it!'

I only wanted to know truth not comparisons. Eg. who, what, where, when and why...

I do think that only a cruel person intent on punishing you would voluntarily say such awful things, and if that's the measure of who they are, then you're better off without them.

Conversely people do make ridiculous untrue statements when put on the spot. And never ever forget that LIARS LIE.

It's not you, it's them. They own it all. Not good enough in bed? Bullshit. People who feel loved, valued and safe in their intimate relationships have awesome sex. So I blame the cheaters for making us feel unloved, undervalued and unsafe.


There are dark shadows on the earth, but its lights are stronger in the contrast.
Charles Dickens

Posts: 257 | Registered: Sep 2013
Member # 42868
Default  Posted: 6:16 PM, May 29th (Thursday)

I didn't want many details. I declined when he offered to tell me the identity of the OW. I do research for a living, and that was just pandoras box of a potential obsession. Since we separated, I'm eapecially glad I don't have those details to torment me. It made it easier to let go. I didn't need him to convince me of what a scuzzbucket he is!

Me: BS
Married almost 20 years
2 year EA and 1 month PA
D-Day: 01/14/14
Separated and divorcing

Posts: 92 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: TX
Member # 41347
Default  Posted: 6:53 PM, May 29th (Thursday)

If you ask and they tell you, they need to say in a way, that it doesn't completely destroy you. I am not in R and I feel your pain and I hurt for you all who had all those details.

It's like they already stabbed the BS now they are telling the details and turning the knife slowly instead of pulling it out.

I imagine it is hard if you know how the AP looks and have actually seen them. For example, my WW OM AP 1 was my relative who is some much bigger than me in body size and would probably be consider obese... OM 2 was young as her and he was some what physically the idea body size for men.

Some men are bigger than others, and some women have bigger breast. It doesn't matter if they are bigger than you. Size doesn't matter unless you suffer from micropenis other wise just know how to use the tools you got.

If the WS offers that voluntarily, I would consider, what was the point they had in doing that. I can not imagine that being any good to just give that. If it was asked and then it needs to go through a careful filter and be said a certain way.

I am attempted to ask sometimes, but I have a feeling she would either lie or tell me and hurt me even more...

I am now nothing by a mere Ronin.

Posts: 1041 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Maryland
Member # 40139
Default  Posted: 8:29 PM, May 29th (Thursday)

I asked my WH if she was prettier than me. He said, "Don't ask questions you don't want the answer to." He later told me she was "very, very beautiful". After one particularly ravaging fight, he told me that OW was "a better woman" than me. That one I don't know if I will ever recover from.

He has back-tracked on all of it, and I am certain those words were intended to hurt me, to cover his own shame for what he had done, and to get me to stop asking questions. He does not remember saying she was more beautiful than me, and he has a hard time believing he would have said it. She is not more beautiful than me. I know it is subjective, but she is perfectly average, same as me. My friends, who have been brutally honest with me in all things, said she is "ugly".

I don't even question whether she is a better woman than me - that is a no-brainer.

My point is, many things are said post Dday that may feel "true" at the time, or may be words designed to inflict damage in a fit of self-preservation (like an animal in a trap bites anything that comes near it), but upon clearer reflection are revealed to be very untrue. Maybe OM was more well-endowed, maybe he really, truly wasn't. Really, that isn't what makes a good lover anyway.

I am sorry your wife left such a brain-bomb in your mind. It was a cruel thing to say, and all it reveals is how hurtful and selfish of a person she was - it says nothing about you. It must be so difficult to process these feelings when the person has died. I am very sorry that is your journey.

Me: Believer; 40s
Him: Liar; 40s
Married 19 years
1 year EA/2 month PA/incidental infidelities I can't begin to process
OC born 2014
In successful R, but still in just plain pain.

Posts: 809 | Registered: Jul 2013
Member # 42365
Default  Posted: 9:22 AM, May 30th (Friday)

My husband told me "there was something about her", and "she oozes sex", and pointed out that she was a pole dancer and had big tits. That still hurts.

Posts: 117 | Registered: Feb 2014
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 9:47 AM, May 30th (Friday)

Its terrible how our WS destroy our life with their affair. THEN that isnt enough. They have to strike out at us with physical comparisons.

I wonder WHY they would do this?

IMO it could be they are embarrassed by their own actions and strike out at us when we ask questions because their own memories are painful to relive. Being brutal with the truth would likely prevent further questioning.


Maybe our WS are still in a fog such that they blame us for their choice to have a affair. Sort of like: *you made me do this. so now I am going to hurt you back when you ask me about it* They blame us as the cause of their actions. And want to strike back at us to hurt us over what we made them do.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.

Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.
Friedrich Nietzsche

Posts: 3483 | Registered: Sep 2007
Member # 18662
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, May 30th (Friday)

It may also be not a calculated action but automatic response od selfdefence. She hates being questioned, feels horrible talking about what she did, and this the hurtful truth stops it, all undr cover of doiing what I ask for!
We cannot even complain efectively because then it is .."whatever i do you are upset"

Me BH 50, seemingly married happily 25 years
Wife 47, had 3 PA affair, last one developed as EA but then turned PA and sporadic meeting 2 times a year at conferences but lasted for 8 years. Trying to reconcile.

Posts: 70 | Registered: Mar 2008
Member # 41205
Default  Posted: 7:22 PM, May 30th (Friday)

I had a lot of TT from my WH, but when he told me the truth I knew it was it.
There is not a perfect or better person. People have bad and good things on them. For example, the OW did good bjs but she smelled bad. When I saw her I almost felt pity for my WH. I had all what I needed.
When you see the "night" things in the "light" of the day they are different.

DD-age 9
Together 7 years, married 17 years
DD1:8/12/2013 -OW1-PA 1.5 months in 2009
DD2:8/17/2013 - OW2-EA Spring 2013- He tried to hit on her but she denied.

"You can't fix a broken man, but he can break you"

Posts: 216 | Registered: Nov 2013
Member # 35593
Default  Posted: 9:29 PM, May 30th (Friday)

Ncharge, now that is class. It boiled down to tits and a pole. Wow, something to be proud of I am sure.

Me 52
WH 52
Married 30+ years
Together trying to R

I tell people I am tired but really my heart is broken and I am sad.

Posts: 1585 | Registered: May 2012 | From: Southern, bless your heart
Member # 38562
Default  Posted: 10:38 PM, May 30th (Friday)

I liked LS's analogy. Some women have larger breasts, some smaller. It has NOTHING to do with the depth of the love they share or the quality of the love they make.

I KNOW there has been NO correlation to quality of sex and the size of a lover's penis. It is really, REALLY about the emotions, the fun, the curiosity, the excitement, the courage to try, and staying emotionally real.

Try very, very hard to remove that intentionally vicious comment from your belief system. I don't care if you NEVER get another hard-on again for the rest of your life, you can be an EXTRAORDINARY lover. Your sex life can be fun and loving and adventurous and all about whatever the two of you want.

It is the gut-wrenching, down-to-your-soul honesty that helps so much. ~paraphrased from CancunCrushed
"I edit, therefore I am." -BionicGal

Posts: 381 | Registered: Feb 2013
Member # 19517
Default  Posted: 10:38 PM, May 30th (Friday)

Thanks for all the great replies. To those who got the same kind of treatment as me, i'm so sorry you have been hurt like this. In fact this is something else she told me, that "I'm sorry you had to be hurt by this". I recognized then that she had no contrition for what she did. She talked about it almost as if she were telling a story about some one else instead of herself.
I'm hoping some people will come with victory stories.

Posts: 596 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Pennsylvania
Member # 19517
Default  Posted: 5:49 AM, June 2nd (Monday)

It occurred to me that about 2 years after DD, when there had been no sex between us for 1-1/2 years, she came to me and said, "...what if I told you it was all a big lie....???? "

I replied, "... I wouldn't believe you...."

[This message edited by tfkeel at 5:49 AM, June 2nd (Monday)]

Posts: 596 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Pennsylvania
Member # 36923
Default  Posted: 11:52 AM, June 2nd (Monday)


I think that your WW was deliberately lying to you just to be cruel. I'm sorry, but she sounds like she was a calculatingly cruel person.

Plus in my experience, it doesn't matter how "endowed" a man is or isn't. You don't have to have the perfect body to be a great lover. In fact, there are those who have a "buff" physique and are terrible lovers.

Me: Survivor! BS (47)
Him: WH (45)
2 awesome kids, 13 & 16

Posts: 92 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: evephoebe1
Member # 10468
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, June 2nd (Monday)

tf, please don't assume your current wife doesn't want sex with you because as you put it, "She's had better".
I don't believe that for a minute.

My x was the best sex I ever had until he cheated. He then became the second worst. Why? Because good sex starts in my brain and heart and when I realized he didn't deserve the pedestal I had put him on the sex became mediocre at best. mediocre with mind movies. blech.

Some women, as they get older, find less need for sex and a greater need for emotional bonding and comfort. I think if you love and trust your wife you should talk to her about this instead of assuming the worst.

Ddays 2004 & 2007
I cut my losses mid 2013
Feeling happier every day :)

Posts: 6159 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Florida
Member # 19517
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, June 2nd (Monday)

I think that your WW was deliberately lying to you just to be cruel.

Every time I think of her, a passage of scripture comes into my mind:

Hebrews 12:16,17

See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled; that there be no immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal. For you know that even afterwards, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears.

It occurs to me now that she, after time, desired to "inherit" her "blessing", and have a loving husband and unbroken family.

But, the place for repentance, alas, was gone.

Posts: 596 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Pennsylvania
Member # 19517
Default  Posted: 10:05 AM, June 6th (Friday)

I wonder WHY they would do this?

I have learned the answer, in my case. Even after 27 years, some things still didn't make sense.

I have learned that my W's "complete truth" was PROPAGANDA.

The basic REAL truth was that she WANTED to cheat.

She was using the "complete truth" as a CON. A "set-up" for the NEXT cheat. An EXCUSE for the current affair to continue, if she could make it
do so.

She, of course, did not cheat because of me. Not because of my lack of "size", not because of my physique, not because of my "low sex drive", not for any of those reasons.

She cheated because she WANTED TO. She was "addicted" to the feelings and the "strokes" of it. She was proving herself worthy of womanhood by her ability to "steal" a man.

Posts: 596 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Pennsylvania
Topic Posts: 31