SurvivingInfidelity.com Forums
Just Found Out
User Topic: 12 days since Dday, searching for the right course
Onguard
New Member
Member # 43654
Default  Posted: 11:57 AM, June 8th (Sunday)

On Tuesday May 27th my wife informed me that she was having an affair. I had suspected it for the past 4 months as she had distanced herself from me and had asked her multiple times if there was someone else. I even named who the AP was on one occasion and she denied it. Now I am trying to get through this initial period of emotional trauma and determine a course of action that will help me to survive. I wish that I had found this site sooner because it is clear to me now that I have made a lot of mistakes since Dday. I am hopeful that some of you can help me to course correct right away.

My WS says that she started to pull away from me about a year ago, which is also when she first felt an attraction to her AP. He is a spinning instructor and she went to his class 3 or 4 times a week. She says he initiated flirtations at class and then pursued her with text messages. She claims that she was not happy with our marriage due to feeling neglected and lonely and when someone else showed her attention it was impossible to resist. The A became physical about 5 months ago. She admitted that they had sex twice but met on many other occasions to talk and kiss in his car. Hearing these words was painful beyond description. She and I have been together since we were kids and we have only been with each other our entire lives. Until now.

Another significant fact is that I have been battling severe depression for the past 6 months. It appeared to come out of the blue and it hit me very hard. I could not put my finger on any 1 thing that triggered it but I know that the strain in my marriage was part of it. This depression caused me to appear weak, needy and pathetic. I needed the emotional support of my wife, the person who has been in my life for 29 years, and she was not there for me. Her distancing at a time when I was suffering so much made my recovery almost impossible. I could not understand how she could abandon me emotionally during the most difficult time of my life. For 29 years I have been an alpha male to my entire family and hers. But depression is an evil beast and it turned me into someone else. During this time I smothered her with questions about "us" and pleaded with her to love me. But I know now that she was in the fog during this entire period. I also know that my attempts to bring her closer only served to push her farther away. Finally we got the meds right and my depression started to lift in mid April. As I got stronger I began giving her more space. I was more engaged in my work and traveled on business quite a bit. I was really getting better and showing her the old me. Then came Dday. My sleep, appetite and mood all plunged as I tried to process what she had just told me. This news can send the healthiest person into a deep depression.

Her AP was the one who ended it. His "girlfriend" saw text messages between him and my wife on his phone and he told my WS that he could no longer see her and that she was no longer able to attend his spin class. My WS waited for 2 weeks before confessing to me. During this 2 week period I could tell that something was really bothering her. She was crying for no reason and telling me that she thought she was getting depression. During this I was comforting her as much as I could which made her feel tremendous guilt. She said things like, "You should not be comforting me, I was not there for you." I simply told her that I forgave her and that I did not want to see her suffer like I had. Looking back, I believe that she was in withdrawal from the affair ending.

During the first few days following Dday she showed some genuine remorse and a desire to R. She said things to me that made me feel her love for the first time in over a year. It felt great to feel wanted again but there were also feelings of rage, sadness, shock, jealousy etc.. that I had to deal with. I hit her with question after question and said things to make her feel even more guilty. Soon she began to pull away again, refusing to talk or answer any more questions. It has been a roller coaster from hell for both of us. It has now gotten to the point where I am the one chasing her again! She just wants to get away from me and I just want to hear her tell me how sorry she is for hurting me and that she wants to commit to rebuilding our marriage. Unfortunately, I think it's highly unlikely that my marriage is going to survive. I read the 180 last night and I have been breaking virtually every rule for the past 4 months. She is acting as if our marriage means nothing to her right now. Here is what has happened since Dday:

My WS sent him a text message after she told me letting him know that I knew the truth. A "heads up" of sorts.

My WS gave me his phone number so I could call him. Which I did. He answered my questions and apologized.

My WS told me she confessed because she wanted to work on us. Her AP was surprised that she confessed because he says that his girlfriend was not going to tell me.

My WS has engaged in TT over the past 12 days. But overall has been willing to answer my questions.

She says that she will not contact him again and that if he tries to contact her that she will tell me. I do not believe her. She clearly has a strong emotional bond with him.

She refuses to stop going to the spin studio where he works. She is not going to attend his classes but will not even consider switching to another studio. Yesterday, she was planning on attending a class at 10am. The problem is that the AP teaches a class at 11am and it is virtually 100% certain that they would have seen each other. She did not tell me or ask me in advance if that would be ok. When I saw her preparing to go to that class I told her that if she did, our marriage was over. She did not go but she was furious all day.

She will not agree to full transparency on phone, email or account for her time. She says that she will not live that way and strongly resists any hint of being controlled by anyone. She says I am going to have to trust her or leave her. She is very hostile and disrespectful to me about all of this.

She will not agree to couples counseling. She says that she will do IC when she is ready though.

She currently is not sure if she wants to try and R. She is distancing herself from me in every possible way and I am pursuing. This stops today. It is not working and it is reducing my self esteem.

I still have very strong feelings for her. In many ways I am disgusted with myself about that. I still want to believe we can R. I am having a hard time accepting the fact that it may be too late. I fear she is too far gone and that I will never be able to forgive her unless she is 100% committed and willing to earn back my trust. And right now, she is no where close to that. She has been in my life since I was 13 and I have never imagined a future without her. Waves of sickening disbelief keep surging through me that this is really happening. I have read advice on marriagebuilders.com that says we should spend as much time as possible together during her withdrawal. And that I should be careful not to do anything to upset her during this time. I have tried that and it is literally impossible. The tension between us is so thick and the emotions are raw that each time we are together we are both miserable. She is not sure if she wants to be with me right now. I don't think there is anything I can do until she decides what she wants. Part of me wants to file for D and just move on. Part of me thinks that I should try the 180 first. I know I cannot keep doing what I have been doing. She has enjoyed the safety net of knowing I am here if she wants me. Am I just fooling myself to think that there is any hope?


BH 44
WW 43
Married 19yrs
DDay: 5/27/14

Posts: 18 | Registered: Jun 2014
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 12:46 PM, June 8th (Sunday)

Onguard,

Sorry for what has happened, but first thing you need to do is stop beating yourself up. And you would not be normal if you had not lost a bit of self esteem over this.

You will get a lot of different opinions here about the 180. It is meant to heal you, so maybe you can do some of that, but I believe it works best if you have a spouse who wants to R.

You have one good thing here. The AP has been caught by his girlfriend and has decided to dump your wife, AND he was cordial and apologetic to you on the phone. You could probably get his ass fired so maybe that was why he was so nice but at least he did not tell you that he had any intention of continuing the A. That is a GOOD thing.

Since you basically know all the details now, MC probably would be helpful, but it appears you are NOT going to "nice" your WW back into the marriage.

Only you can decide how much pain you can take and you have to maintain your emotional and physical health. There is a saying you may see on the board here that "you must be willing to end the marriage in order to save it"

If you look at the other threads you will see just how much pain a WW or WH can inflict. You should see an attorney so you have your ducks lined up, and at some point you can give her the preliminary papers.

If you are sure the A is over, and it appears you are right, your biggest danger is that your wife will replace the AP she lost with another one. She is certainly ripe for that.

You have to make some tough decisions but you can and will survive.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
annb
Member
Member # 22386
Default  Posted: 4:32 PM, June 8th (Sunday)

Welcome to SI, Onguard. I am saddened that you find yourself here , but know you are among those who have walked in the painful shoes of infidelity.

Have you checked out the articles in the Healing Library? Chock full of great information, and knowledge is power.

First of all, those who have nothing to hide hide nothing. Your wife lost her right to privacy when she chose to have an affair. If she is not willing to be completely transparent with her phone, emails, social media, etc, I'd consider that a huge red flag.

Keep in mind cheaters lie and lie and lie, and her "word" means nothing at this point. She must earn your trust back, it will take YEARS.

I would make a requirement of R, if you decide that's your path, to end attending ANY classes at that studio. Time to find a new one.

Like the above poster stated, you cannot "nice" her back into the marriage. She's in control, you MUST put yourself in the driver's seat. She is playing a game with your life, draw the line in the sand.

Marriage counseling will not do any good if she still has her head up her ass, and certainly by the sound of your post, she does.

Please make an appt. with your doctor and get tested for STDS. Also check on some anti-depressants if you are not already taking them to help you cope through this nightmare.

I am going to bump up two threads, one called Before You Say Reconcile, the other Tactical Primer. Excellent reads and maybe they will give you some clarity.

There is also a Betrayed Men Only thread in the I Can Relate forum, many SI veterans there who might be able to help.

Post often, read as much as you can, there is a book called Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass that might be helpful for your wife if she is willing to do the work.

((((Hugs))))


Posts: 7593 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Northeast
mandolin555
Member
Member # 42476
Default  Posted: 4:45 PM, June 8th (Sunday)

The advice you got from marriage sounds like it was written by a Wayward spouse who wanted to cake eat.

Posts: 102 | Registered: Feb 2014
kansas1968
Member
Member # 32214
Default  Posted: 11:02 PM, June 8th (Sunday)

Your wife is still in the "fog." That means she has not let go of her attachment to the other man and at this point she doesn't think she did anything wrong.

Really the only thing you can do to save your marriage at this point is the 180 but you have got to be tough. It seems counter-intuitive but that is really what it takes. If you appear needy and week and willing to do anything to win them back it will just make things worse as long as she is in this state of mind.

Start a really hard 180 and see an attorney. Let her know you have seen an attorney. You need to do this anyway to protect yourself financially. The appointment can just be for advice, but she doesn't need to know that. If she starts softening and acting like she wants to reconcile, give her the list of things you expect. IE., total transparency, all passwords to cell, internet, etc., absolutely NO CONTACT with OM and MC. If she want IC also, that is up to her, but IC would probably not be a bad idea for you also. Sometimes a MC can do both. Ours does, but it takes the right counselor.

So sorry you are in such pain. It is horrible I know. It will get better no matter what.


Me - BS
Him - FWS
DD - December 14, 2010
Married 43 years 1/14/2011
Affair lasted 7+ years
Affair had been over for 2 years before I found out. OW sent me a letter.

Posts: 1319 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Kansas
stronger08
Member
Member # 16953
Default  Posted: 2:58 AM, June 9th (Monday)

Kansas got it right my man. Your WW is not remorseful. You claim she is TT you, yet you say she is being overall honest. I'm sorry but if she is TT she is not being honest in any way, shape or form. Don't give her credit for continued bad choices and behaviors. She refuses to stop her classes and now you must refuse to continue with the M. You know the old saying: Give them an inch, they take a yard ? That's especially true with waywards. If you allow her to dictate terms here your life is going to continually go down the sewer along with her morals. Its imperative you take a very firm stand right now. Lay out your terms for R to her and she has the choice of doing whats needed to save the M or not. At the moment I'd bet my left nut she choses not. I say this because she has not had to endure any consequence for her actions. She thinks she is going to bully you into accepting her decisions. She knows your emotionally vulnerable and now she is using that to strong arm you into allowing her to see the OM on the side after this dies down a bit. I hope you see that's her goal here brother.

Look my man, OM is nothing more than a predator. Why the hell do you think is career choice is teaching "Spin classes" ? It gives his predatory ass access to women. Many of whom are just getting back into shape and their self esteem is low. He knows just what to say and how to act to get them into the sack. Your WW thinks she is special. But trust me, its not the OM's first time at the dance. Most likely he has a few women on the side. Married women are great to these types of assholes. They get to have NSA sex for as long as they can. When it gets too hot in the kitchen, they cool it down until the coast is clear. Trust me this A is far from over, its just on the back burner for a little bit. If you let her to keep calling the shots, OM is gonna be back with a vengeance. Face facts bro, your W is gone and has been replaced with a WW. One who does not have your best interests at heart. You need to make a stand now !!!! You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by employing this strategy. If your afraid of losing her I must remind you that she is already gone.


You cant eat soup with chopsticks.

Posts: 5732 | Registered: Nov 2007
william
Member
Member # 41986
Default  Posted: 3:45 AM, June 9th (Monday)

im sorry you are here in this position, its not a good one.

first, dont expect that your wife is being "honest". the trickle truth is probably still not over. if she says they had sex 2x, tis probably closer to 10. get an STD test. she will say they used condoms. they all do. its almost always not true. require her to get one too. then in several months get another each, some things show up later.

the full transparency with phone, email accounts, etc can NOT be negotiable. its a requirement. she has no rights to keep secrets, especially after proving that she cant be trusted. a brutal truth but a truth none the less.

counseling isnt an option either. she needs it. you need it. and you need it together.

she can NOT be trusted to be in contact with the other man (nor can he be trusted). if this class is so vital for her then she can find somewhere else to do it. thats a consequence of her actions. you wouldnt send an alcoholic into the bar to hang out all day, would you? dont put her in the same position with OM or else there is a risk the affair just moves underground and becomes more secretive.

try to eat, drink, sleep right. its going to be a long battle and you need to take care of yourself.


me - bh
her - lara01

from 09/11 - 05/13
2 ONS, 10 sexting partners, 1 LT EA/PA

??/06/13 DD/1 - admits to LT EA, begin false R.
01/13/14 DD/2 - LTA was PA.
01/18/14 DD/3 - sexting 5 guys.
01/19/14 DD/4 - 2 ONS with different guys


Posts: 549 | Registered: Jan 2014
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 6:36 AM, June 9th (Monday)

Obviously, you can see that the advice given here differs greatly from what you have received before.

I can't speak for others....only myself....and the thousands of stories that I have read here in the last 4 years. But when you think about what is being preached here, it really does make sense. The majority of the advice you will receive, will seem blatantly obvious---don't compromise your morals; don't tolerate poor boundaries and behavior; be authentic, and expect authenticity from your partner, etc.

These are all things that should be a GIVEN in one's marriage.

Of course, it is a whole lot harder to enforce these boundaries, when we have been emasculated, had our self esteem brought down to zero, and are unsure if we will ever be able to fully trust anyone again in our lives. This is the trauma that comes with infidelity. But you can fight back, and you can thrive again. The only thing you can't ensure is if your wife will be a part of that equation.

You can't change her. You can only change yourself--but that is what matters here. What we can do, is give you the advice that has been experienced...and learned...from tens of thousands of people here, with the hope that you can accept this advice as a building block in your recovery. And don't beat yourself up if you have done things the "wrong" way in the past, or have any relapses along the way forward. It happens. It is normal. You just have to pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and start again.

There will be plenty of advice still coming your way. Please read ALL of the posts, and start to implement a plan of recovery. Focus on yourself, and you will see things start to clear right before your very eyes...like you have noticed as of recently.

Good luck moving forward. Post as much as you can, with as much detail as you are comfortable in giving. The more that we know, the more that we can possibly help.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2072 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 8:47 AM, June 9th (Monday)

Onguard

You say you are on the mend from depression.

So do not let her bombshell set you back.

You and your wife have been together a long time but you make no mention of children???

So create a plan for your future.

See an attorney.
Split your $$$ and put them in your own account.
Let your wife seeing you act as a strong man that she knew years ago.

Do a successful 180. If you chase her you will only push her away. She will use that as her excuse.

Now start to fight back.
A. Inform the OM's place of work what he did. Do not let that douche get away with this.

B. If your wife is still not being truthful or playing games then let her family know what is going on. She was not there for you when you needed her most.

Let them know why....

Once her affair is out then she will truly have to deal with the consequences of her actions.

Do not let her hide. Even if it costs you your marriage.

Because in the end you should not settle for the person she has become. Only the person she vowed to be!

HM


Posts: 902 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, June 9th (Monday)

In many relationships, including mine, it isn't the A itself that kills the marriage, it is the WS's attitude in the aftermath that does...
Be kind to yourself..Whether you feel like you did the right thing or not in the months following her A, she should have been remorseful, more forgiving and tolerant even if your behavior irritated her..
The behavior that the marriage builders claims is healing to relationships will kill the BS. it will suck them dry..And it will do nothing to make the relationship better at all..


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1257 | Registered: Nov 2011
1Faith
Member
Member # 38975
Frustrated  Posted: 2:54 PM, June 9th (Monday)

On guard

Hang in there. Right now you don't have to decide anything. Just be.

One day and one step at a time.

I still have very strong feelings for her. In many ways I am disgusted with myself about that

Don't be so hard on yourself. You have nothing to be ashamed of because you love your wife. That is honorable and noble.

Am I just fooling myself to think that there is any hope?

There is always hope. Your WW's actions will convey if the hope can be turned into something real.

Read, read, read in the Healing Library. 180* is a good place to start.

We are here for you. Good luck.


"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it." - Maya Angelou

Posts: 1207 | Registered: Apr 2013
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 3:18 PM, June 9th (Monday)

I hit her with question after question and said things to make her feel even more guilty. Soon she began to pull away again, refusing to talk or answer any more questions.
That happens many times and the WS cannot handle seeing their own wrongs.

Ask all you want and tell her what you expect from her, but dont throw the affair in her face at every chance.

During the days when she was sorry and all of that, did she offer her passwords or access to her phone?

Right now, your wife is not going to listen to your requests because she has simply shut her mind off to change. Like another post stated, she could be ripe for another affair.

You should continue to monitor everything she does, calls and texts.

Since she is acting this way, you should also close joint accounts and keep your money to yourself. There is no trust here at this time.

As for the OM, yes like another said, he is a predator and most likely, this is not the first married student he has been caught with.

Give her the book Not Just Friends to read and hopefully that will get through to her. That book also explains what is expected of her at this time.

And that means complete transparency, no more going to those classes without throwing a childish temper tantrum and answering your questions.

The only thing you should remember is that every truth she tells you, dont start yelling, screaming or threatening. Otherwise the WW just figures the hell with it and not much is accomplished.


Posts: 4121 | Registered: Jun 2002
Onguard
New Member
Member # 43654
Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, June 10th (Tuesday)

Thanks for all of the support and advice. I am trying to embrace the 180 but it is really tough. However, I know that to keep pursuing her is only going to push her away and destroy my self esteem. I had pursued her from January through Mid April pretty hard because of my depression and her distancing herself. Then, as my depression started to lift, I backed off and gave her a lot of space for about a month and I thought things were improving with us. Then came Dday. Since Dday I have mainly pursued her. Since finding this site though I have backed off considerably. (today is day 3 of my 180). I have loved her my entire life and it's surreal to watch what has happened. I still cannot fully accept that she has actually done this and that she is acting so uncertain about our relationship. We have 2 children, their ages are 20 and 13. My 20 year old knows what has happened and he is furious with her. He has encouraged me repeatedly to file for D and don't look back. He saw what I went through with depression and how my wife was not there for me. He was already upset with her and when I told him about her A he lost it. Of course, she is furious with me that I told him about her A. (typical selfish WW bs). Our 13 year old does not know about it and my intention is to keep it that way for as long as possible.

Right after Dday she showed some remorse and a desire to R, however, she did not agree to total transparency. In fact, she said the opposite. "I will not be controlled by you or anyone". She feels like I am trying to control her when I pursue her (She stated this multiple times prior to Dday, in response to my attempts to "talk about us"). Her distance triggered me to pursue and "try to build a bridge". She said that if there is a bridge to be built, she will be the one to build it. Yesterday we spoke briefly and I told her that if we decide to try and R then transparency was a non negotiable term. I said people with nothing to hide, hide nothing. I agreed to abide by the same terms as well. She did not agree but she did not oppose either. But even if she did agree, how can I actually verify that she has not deleted the texts or emails? She and her AP both told me that they communicated mainly by text messages. But when I look at the history on the Verizon site I only see his number come up 3 times in 90 days. From what I understand, imessage to imessage does not show up and if she deletes it from her phone then it is gone forever. The 180 says that you should not snoop at all. Does this mean that you should not monitor communications until the WS decides that they want to R?

Another issue I am concerned about is how much distance to put between us right now. I travel on business quite a bit and it is normal for me to be gone 3 days a week. Since Dday I have kept my travels short. I have an overwhelming concern that there will be some sort of contact between my WW and her AP. One part of me thinks, if you want him then you can have him. But another part of me says that I need to keep her away from him until the fog lifts. She maintains that she is not going to contact him and that she does not think he will contact her, but if he does she will tell me. But based on my gut as well as most of the posts on this site, she is not being truthful. She reinforced my concern on Saturday morning when she attempted to go to a spin class that ended right before his class started in the same room. It would have been virtually certain that they saw each other. The 180 is about me moving forward, with or without her. It is about accepting the reality that my marriage has ended or is highly likely to end very soon. Her actions on Saturday morning tell me that she is either deep in the fog or really has given up on our M. I still want to believe that we can save our M but it seems less likely every day. It feels like any distance I put between us will only give her more time and opportunity to think about her AP and contact him.

On Dday she downplayed the depth of her attachment to her AP. She said "I got caught up in something and it got out of hand". "I got played big time." But over the past 2 weeks since then, she has slowly conveyed that her emotional attachment to him is very strong and that she is having a hard time getting over him. Prior to Dday she had been consistently rejecting my attempts to be intimate. But she admitted to me that she was last with him on May 13th. On May 15th he told her that they had to end it due to his other girlfriend finding out. Then on May 27th she confessed to me. At first she said that they only had sex once. On May 13th. Then, later on Dday, she said it was twice. The first time was at the end of February. She said that their contact was not consistent but she did see him 3-4 times a week at spin class. She said they used a condom both times. She said they never had oral sex. Her AP confirmed that they had sex twice. Both times were at his house. I don't know what to believe but I also don't know why they would lie about it either. 2 times or 22 times, what is the difference?

Why would she confess to me? She said that she wanted to focus on our relationship and the only way to do it was to be totally honest. But I am having a hard time believing that. There has to be more to the story. If his OW had not discovered the A, it would still be going on. I do not know the identity of his OW, and my WW claims that she doesn't know either. (Again, I find it hard to believe that she could be in a 9 month affair with him and not know the name of this OW). Also, the AP could always change his mind about wanting to be with my WW and come after her full force. He is divorced already and his relationship with the OW is supposedly a secret affair as well. Lastly, a couple of you have indicated that she is ripe for another A! I had not even considered that one. What a nightmare. Things could change very quickly. I have to keep reminding myself that I cannot control my WW. It feels like I should be lobbying her to come to her senses and realize how much pain she has caused me. But I know that this is the exact wrong approach for both of us. I need to be the best that I can be, for me, not for her.

I gave her the book, Not Just Friends, at the suggestion of my IC. She read a little of it but then quickly dismissed it. She is in the Fog. She is going through withdrawals from her AP. She says it is a mid life crisis and she needs time to figure herself out. She says that she "hopes to fight for us" but still needs time. She has hit me with the ilybinilwy line. She was feeling neglected in our marriage and then I got hit with a crippling depression that made me appear weak and clingy for 4 months. That is when her A really kicked into high gear. She says that her feelings for me just are not there right now and she is scared that they never will be again. I am trying hard to be the strong, healthy leader that I was for most of my life. I hope that she will recognize that and see me for who I am instead of who I was with depression.

I miss her very much but I am also very angry that she has done this to me and our family. It is a horrible place to be emotionally.


BH 44
WW 43
Married 19yrs
DDay: 5/27/14

Posts: 18 | Registered: Jun 2014
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 6:25 PM, June 10th (Tuesday)

It is a horrible place to be emotionally.

Yes it is.

That is why you need to focus on yourself. The sooner that you leave this mess called infidelity, the better that you will feel. Whether your WW gets on board, and leaves infidelity with you----well, that's another story.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2072 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
ZedLeppelin
Member
Member # 40895
Default  Posted: 9:33 PM, June 10th (Tuesday)

Serious question: How smart is your wife?

I fully understand that in general, WS still have an attachment to their affair partners right after Dday. But most are smart/sneaky/cunning enough to minimize the potential fallout by suddenly turning all their attention to their BS. "Oh shit, what have i done, how the hell do i fix this". (Or pretend to).

Your wife on the other hand clearly doesn't "get" it, and the hell you are going through. To brazenly declare that she will continue to go to the same studio as her AP not only takes entitlement to a new level, but shows that she openly has very little respect for you as she does not even attempt to hide her true intentions.

Usually i tell people to go see a lawyer with the "threat" of divorce. Here, i am afraid you are actually going to have to file for divorce for your wife to truly understand. (Remember you can always cancel the process further down the line if she has shown enough remorse).

If she is not 100% on board with rebuilding your relationship as of now, then it is time to detach.

1. Keep implementing 180
2. Get tested for STDs
3. See a Lawyer

Even if you disagree with the above, please at the very least listen to this: Do not get stuck in limbo.


Posts: 198 | Registered: Oct 2013
Edith
Member
Member # 38337
Default  Posted: 11:36 AM, June 11th (Wednesday)

Hey OG,
Like your wife, my H "blamed" his A on my depression. I know that my depression was greatly exacerbated by his carrying on with the slob, to which I strenuously objected. He kept insisting it was innocent....riiiight.

So you implementing the 180 is a fantastic idea. If you fall off the horse, you can always get right back on! I think it would be wise for you to make the statement that unless and until she meets your demands, stated as no contact, full transparency, finding a new spin studio, (insert anything else you need here), then you will not be considering her your wife, and will take the appropriate legal steps.

You cannot babysit her, and obviously you cannot trust her. So focus on YOU. There are so many layers and depth to this pain, believe me, I know. Discussing only kids and finances after this initial statement will help you move toward healing.

Also, I might suggest finding out who his other "girlfriend" is, since it sounds like a second illicit affair... A little investigation can come in handy. I wonder if the spin studio would be interested in what their employee has been up to. Also, remember that with iPhones, often deleted information can be recovered.

I would also suggest that you destroy some stuff, just to make yourself feel better. For example, you might want to find out how much lighter fluid it takes to burn up all her panties, or perhaps how many hits with a 20-pound sledge it takes to destroy her phone. Focusing on destruction of material possessions can be empowering! Especially if they were items she used during her affair.

Take care,

E.


Lies are manipulations. Always.

Posts: 387 | Registered: Feb 2013
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 12:42 PM, June 11th (Wednesday)

There's no law that says spinning class is a necessity. Seeing OM in his element is more important to her than your M. She wants to lure him back beyond a doubt. As long as that is happening, she's not amenable to any attempt at R at has any chance of success. Don't keep hitting your head against that brick wall. You'll only hurt yourself.

Hit the 180 hard without telling her you are going to do it. See a lawyer to learn your rights and responsibilities. That way she can't bait you with bullshit about how she'll financially destroy you. Let her know how fun the single life will be. Don't even think about comforting her. She fired you from that job.

Trust her? Do you know how WS's say "fuck you"? They say "trust me".


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
MindMonkey
Member
Member # 41679
Default  Posted: 12:58 PM, June 11th (Wednesday)

I have read advice on marriagebuilders.com that says we should spend as much time as possible together during her withdrawal. And that I should be careful not to do anything to upset her during this time. I have tried that and it is literally impossible. The tension between us is so thick and the emotions are raw that each time we are together we are both miserable.

BTDT. Don't recommend. They call it plan A, which in short is winning your wife back. While it can work, your self esteem will take a nose dive. I mean getting flowers and making breakfast for WW while she is still in the affair?

I tried the marriage builders thing for a while. So did the WW. Before I knew it, they were telling her to separate from me because I was being abusive. By their definition, bringing up the affair (or any mistake of the past) after she answers some basic questions is abuse. They shun IC and don't even bring up FOO issues. So how do people find their "why" or their "broken"?

Well they don't. It's rugsweeping and blameshifting.

All said IMHO of course. I feel they set us back and crippled our recovery.


BH, 35, CoD, Military...sober since 6/17/14
FWW, EA/PA (x2) different OM coworkers
Reconciling since 8/1/13
100% ready to file at next dealbreaker...don't test me.

Posts: 209 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: NoVA
WeepingBuddhist
Member
Member # 39139
Default  Posted: 2:28 PM, June 11th (Wednesday)

Sorry that you find yourself here. You only have to decide what you can do today to take care of yourself. If you don't have a therapist in addition to someone who is prescribing something for your depression, find one with whom you feel comfortable. Drink plenty of water and try to exercise---just walking can help you find a little peace. You've been traumatized and while it's hard to be kind to yourself, you need to.


Me: BS 46
Him: unimportant
D Day:4-27-13
DIVORCED!!! 2-20-14

Posts: 615 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Columbus
Lovedyoumore
Member
Member # 35593
Default  Posted: 2:45 PM, June 11th (Wednesday)

Firm boundaries for both of you, not just her.

Complete transparency for both of you, not just her

NC with AP for both of you, not just her

No more lies for both of you, not just her.

I say both of you because it makes the R a joint effort for both of you. It is not about control but having an open, honest marriage that makes you partners. She is worried about control after she made decisions about your marriage without consulting you? That is the ultimate control master and it sounds as if she is not going to relinquish it just yet. Sounds like W thinking is very much alive.

If she cannot agree to these basic steps towards R suggested by those who really know how to facilitate R after infidelity, you may have to shake her up. You are walking through fire right now for her and she is reluctant to even get warm. Give her a yank, even if you have to file, she needs to come out of the fog. My last effort might be contacting the BGF, find out her side, and get some insight into the AP operation.

Good luck.


Me 52
WH 52
Married 30+ years
Together trying to R

I tell people I am tired but really my heart is broken and I am sad.


Posts: 1527 | Registered: May 2012 | From: Southern, bless your heart
Ohmyword
New Member
Member # 43684
Default  Posted: 2:52 PM, June 11th (Wednesday)

Sorry to hear all of this. Your eldest child, other than WW getting angry that he was told does she not care and continues on going to class, etc? I witnessed a similar situation. All three kids saw their father(who committed the infidelity) as a empty shell of man and all the talk of marriage and trust was dispelled in a flash. He never recovered from it and walked the house more or less like a ghost. Disowned by his own children and rightly so. I suspect you WW does not realize she has probably lost a great deal more than just her H. Seems she was more interested in hiding her indiscretions than accepting the cold truth that what the eldest child believe to be good and true are more of a story with a bad ending. I'm astonished at her selfishness. In as such, I believe I would work on yourself and the kids leaving her to her own devices. It is obvious she cares very little of the consequences to her children.

Posts: 18 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: United States
Gman1
Member
Member # 40879
Default  Posted: 8:11 AM, June 12th (Thursday)

Stronger hit the nail on the head. For goodness sake the OM teaches spin classes. Most likely, his motivation for his career choice is clear. He is a fox in the hen house. He has planted himself there for a reason. There is a continuous supply of potential candidates to hit on. There is a good chance that your WW meant nothing to him and that he has several others "on the side." If all of this is true, it will actually be a positive thing for your situation in the coming weeks because the OM may have never had any type of emotional attachment in the first place.

The reason that I write this is that it is similar to my FWW's A. She had boundary issues, was depressed,had low self esteem and mid-life crisis issues all at once. The OM realized her vulnerability and pounced. His only motivation was sexual and she meant nothing to him emotionally. After D-day and the fog lifted, my WW realized she had been played and was only one of many women that he was chasing simultaneously. She was embarrassed, ashamed and very remorseful and soon realized his true colors which helped make her one way attachment to him quickly die.

She needs to stop going to that same gym starting yesterday.


Posts: 257 | Registered: Oct 2013
Dawn58
Member
Member # 37656
Default  Posted: 9:33 AM, June 12th (Thursday)

It takes time to know what the right course will be. Take care of yourself, breathe when those feelings surge up. Rest as much as you can. I could not eat much for a few months after dday and lost weight, but I could keep myself hydrated. You are down to the basics right now, just getting through the day.

My STBX was in the fog for a while and was trying to have his cake and eat it too. He kept me on the fence for a few weeks, but I saw the writing on the wall. I judged him on his actions, not on what he told me (which were mostly lies). His actions told me that reconciliation was not going to happen, so I saw an attorney and started divorce proceedings. That was nearly a year and a half ago and now negotiating the settlement.

Read the healing library. Post here often and get the support you need.

My son was 22 when Dday happened and he was so angry. He lost all respect for the STBX and felt betrayed by him as well. Now, we refer to him as the Dementor.

Life will get better, but it will take time.


I got into the marriage, because I loved him. I got out of the marriage, because I love me.

Posts: 481 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Southern California
Onguard
New Member
Member # 43654
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, June 12th (Thursday)

Again, thank you for all of the support and guidance. My WW's feelings for her AP are strong. She admits to knowing that they are based on fantasy but also says that her mistake was getting involved with someone who was already involved. She states that she had "left me" long ago and that is what cleared the way for her to be open to other options. However, she called me yesterday and said that she wants to try and make us work. She proposed that we do our best to be together for 60 days and see how it goes. She has agreed to NC with the AP and has agreed to go to spin classes that are no where close to when he teaches. But she still refuses to stop going to this particular studio. I was not aware that she had moved so far away from me emotionally. I thought that it was distancing as a result of me going through depression. She is being brutally honest with me about her feelings. She is afraid that she will never feel "in love" with me again but that she wants to try and see if that changes.

It seems like implementing the 180 right now would be very risky. She doesn't have an emotional attachment to me and I think that distance would only cause that divide to widen. We do have 29 years of love, life and family that we might be able to build upon though. This has been, among other horrific emotions, a very humbling experience. She seems ready to walk away with or without me or her AP. She loves me and wants to try and make some progress for the sake of everything that we have invested and have to lose as a family. My survival instincts are telling me to give it my best shot but another part of me thinks that she will lose even more respect for me if I accept her proposal. In addition to that, my depression has been getting worse and I am trying not to panic. That is the last thing I need to be dealing with right now.


BH 44
WW 43
Married 19yrs
DDay: 5/27/14

Posts: 18 | Registered: Jun 2014
EvenKeel
Member
Member # 24210
Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, June 12th (Thursday)

says that her mistake was getting involved with someone who was already involved

Really....THIS is what she thinks her mistake was?

Not her getting involved when she was already M? Not her not being their for you during your stuggle? Not getting help when she felt herself dying inside?

Nope....her mistake was picking an A partner who was taken?

Unless she agrees to your guidelines (ie ditching this gym, etc), she cannot give this an honest attempt for rebuilding.

She is still twisting it so it looks like you should feel 'grateful' that she is giving your relationship another chance.

She has it all backwards.

Edited to add....she felt herself pull from the M and be attracted to AP...then at six-months you enter into severe depression? Sounds like a direct link even though you were not aware why. Is that possible?

[This message edited by EvenKeel at 1:47 PM, June 12th (Thursday)]


Eyes are useless if the mind is blind.


Posts: 2181 | Registered: May 2009 | From: Pa
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 1:51 PM, June 12th (Thursday)

Wow. Talk about no remorse. Not a hint or glimmer.

Hate to say this, but you should start D planning, like yesterday. She'll enjoy the cake with you at your expense as long as you let her.

Play good poker. She's bet 60 days. Call her and let her move out to see how she likes that single life chasing the involved Spinner.
Maybe she'll catch him, or maybe not. NOT your problem if you are planning for D.

She is so far checked out of M that R doesn't seem possible now.


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
Ohmyword
New Member
Member # 43684
Default  Posted: 2:15 PM, June 12th (Thursday)

My WW's feelings for her AP are strong. She admits to knowing that they are based on fantasy but also says that her mistake was getting involved with someone who was already involved.

Say what? This was only part of her mistake.


She states that she had "left me" long ago and that is what cleared the way for her to be open to other options.

Options are talking out the problem in the marriage or D. Not going to spin glass and having an affair with the instructor. That portion is not in the, "I care for you." handbook.


However, she called me yesterday and said that she wants to try and make us work. She proposed that we do our best to be together for 60 days and see how it goes.

Since when does she get to make proposals? You make them. As far as I can tell you did nothing wrong. You make the call.


She has agreed to NC with the AP and has agreed to go to spin classes that are no where close to when he teaches. But she still refuses to stop going to this particular studio.

Again, what? NC but still going to the same studio. Does this make sense to you? Not me.

I was not aware that she had moved so far away from me emotionally.

Because she did not attempt to tell you? Took a different road and formulated this emotional distance because the instructor was showing some attention?


I thought that it was distancing as a result of me going through depression. She is being brutally honest with me about her feelings.

When are you allowed to be brutally honest with yours?

She is afraid that she will never feel "in love" with me again but that she wants to try and see if that changes.

Sound defeatist to me and a losing propostion for you.


It seems like implementing the 180 right now would be very risky. She doesn't have an emotional attachment to me and I think that distance would only cause that divide to widen.

Perhaps.


We do have 29 years of love, life and family that we might be able to build upon though. This has been, among other horrific emotions, a very humbling experience.

Not to mention two kids after 29 years and apparently the eldest horrified. I get the suspicion this means nothing to her.


She seems ready to walk away with or without me or her AP. She loves me and wants to try and make some progress for the sake of everything that we have invested and have to lose as a family. My survival instincts are telling me to give it my best shot but another part of me thinks that she will lose even more respect for me if I accept her proposal.

You make the proposal as you see fit. Not hers to make IMO.

In addition to that, my depression has been getting worse and I am trying not to panic. That is the last thing I need to be dealing with right now.

I hope she does not play on this to her advantage.


Posts: 18 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: United States
Edith
Member
Member # 38337
Default  Posted: 2:19 PM, June 12th (Thursday)

Wait a second, let me get this straight, she is giving you 60 DAYS to woo her back into the M?!? Are you kidding me?!?

And that was my second thought after I picked myself up off the floor over this gem:

her mistake was getting involved with someone who was already involved.

Dude, I would seriously give her like 60 seconds to decide, either she is married or you will proceed to divorce. Either all in or all out. Then turn on your heel and implement the 180.

And yes to what EvenKeel said, her "leaving you" likely played a giant role in your depression. I know in my case that was true.

I would buy a bunch of trash bags and start getting her stuff packed for her. She is not worthy.

Also, I would call the gym and let them know what kind of a dirtbag is in their employ. Just the moral thing to do. Take care.

ETA: My husband agreed to NC. Lied about it for 3 months, even to MC. I would not believe a single word.

E.

[This message edited by Edith at 2:20 PM, June 12th (Thursday)]


Lies are manipulations. Always.

Posts: 387 | Registered: Feb 2013
trojan007
Member
Member # 36960
Default  Posted: 2:42 PM, June 12th (Thursday)

Hey buddy I know it's hard because of 19 years together and I know you love her to death. Seriously you need to listen to these people I know it's going to go against everything you're thinking but if I can just give you one word of advice please follow these peoples advice... I cannot believe what she said that's what I get for falling for someone that's already involved she didn't even mention how she betrayed you and your kids. Look if you don't listen to these people and get a lawyer right now and file for divorce. Look at it doesn't mean you have to get a divorce. It takes a while to get a divorce. This might help lift the fog that she is in ... From what we all see on here she's done she shows absolutely no remorse towards you. And I know you're going to you might know better I know her they don't. Really is she the same woman you married for those 19 years. I bet you saying wow who is this woman. You have to be willing to lose your marriage to get back it. Please just listen to these people. They have your best interest in hand. Be advised listen to these people they can help you walk through this mess

Posts: 58 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Valencia, CA 91355
Onguard
New Member
Member # 43654
Default  Posted: 3:14 PM, June 12th (Thursday)

My son and close friends are all telling me to rip the band aid off as well. My therapist is suggesting that I try to rebuild with her and to be patient with her right now as she gradually comes out of the fog. He says that we should mentally go back to the time when she felt herself really pulling away from me, about 1 year ago, and do now what we wish we would have done then. I wish I could muster the courage and strength to end the relationship but I still love her and miss her. I simply do not want to believe that this is the end. We have been together since I was 13. After all these years it is absolutely brutal to picture her with another man, but it happened and I am trying to accept it. But I am also hoping that this will not be the final chapter of our life together.

My son says that the only reason she is still with me is so that she can take her time preparing to live alone and hedge her bets while seeing if her AP has a change of heart and wants her back. It is so sickening to think that he, and all of you, are probably right on the mark. My son also says that the only way I will ever have a shot at getting her to want me again is to file for D and move on with my life. Depression is the most evil illness of them all. It has weakened me and caused me to lose so much of the confidence I used to have. Now, the person who I thought I could count on under any circumstances is not just watching me suffer, she is making it happen.


BH 44
WW 43
Married 19yrs
DDay: 5/27/14

Posts: 18 | Registered: Jun 2014
crisp
Member
Member # 34236
Default  Posted: 6:21 PM, June 12th (Thursday)

You have a son wise beyond his years.


Endeavor to persevere. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csEzTwKemwY

Posts: 410 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: NE US
Gman1
Member
Member # 40879
Default  Posted: 8:35 PM, June 12th (Thursday)

Let me explain to you in plain English. I and everyone else posting on your thread have already been in the same place that you find yourself in right now. It sucks. Worse than anyone outside of your shoes (and ours) could ever imagine. I'm sorry you have the depression on top of the bull$hit but that is the hand you have been dealt. Again, it sucks. But right now, you have to deal with what is directly in front of you. Focus on nothing else.

Your WW is deep in the fog. Her words make no sense, her mind is jello and she is talking nonsense. You need to act and act decisively just as your son told you. You need to shock her into reality one way or the other. I would recommend exposing her A to her family. Are her parents living? If so, do you have a relationship with them? If so, tell them what she has done. A's are dirty little secrets that do not like the light of day. Exposure is your trump card. I know you would prefer to keep this embarassing chapter of your life private and not tell a soul. That is the natural reaction. But, in reality, this may well shock her back into reality. I did this even when it felt like the complete opposite of what I should do. And it worked like a charm.

Whatever you do, you need to stay strong and make sure she knows that your life will go on with or without her. You must learn to become an actor and cast aside your emotions right now. This is a tragic, traumatic time and your actions right now in the way you handle this are extremely important. She is acting like an ass with no remorse whatsoever. You have no choice but to shock her into reality. Tell people close to her what she has done. She will initially be furious but soon reality will set in. IMO, this is your best and only choice.


Posts: 257 | Registered: Oct 2013
ZedLeppelin
Member
Member # 40895
Default  Posted: 9:50 PM, June 12th (Thursday)

Well at least you can console yourself with the knowledge that you have raised a great son.

With respect: your wife is still with the skyfairies in unicornland.

You have come to this board seeking advice. You have been given it. The rest is up to you.


Posts: 198 | Registered: Oct 2013
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 10:35 PM, June 12th (Thursday)

You need to present her with divorce papers and move on.like the others have said, she only regrets that she picked an I available lover who will make his living teaching spin classes.
She"ll pick better next time.
Your therapist is an idiot and you should dump him or her. Therapy is a subjective science not quantitative or exact and if you tell your exact story to ten of them you will get ten different opinions.
Now you are on trial for 60 days . How does that make you feel?? At the end of the 60 days , when she tells you that she still can't committed to you I would present her with the divorce papers and thank your so. For his good advice

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, June 13th (Friday)

Onguard,

Ohmyword does an excellent job of analyzing what you yourself post about her response.

I´m going to warn you in the most serious of terms about making one big mistake:
Don’t for a minute think you case is “special” and “different”.

I know that might sound tough but if you think your marriage is different, her affair is different and your situation is unique then there is no way you can take the collective wisdom here on SI and act according to our suggestions. Granted I will accept that there is one thing totally unique in your situation; namely that the affair is taking place in YOUR marriage. But her “reasons”, excuses, actions, responses, the OM responses, your responses… they are all storybook classics.
Heck – I venture that many of us old-timers can predict with +80% accuracy how things will develop. Those are betting odds friend.

Look – What do we know? What are known “facts” in your situation? Basically what shines through to me is that you have a person that consciously decided to detach from the marriage, have an affair and then cuts her losses by telling you about it when discovered by the OM GF. It didn’t end because WW wanted it to end. She didn’t tell you because she wanted to. This person then goes into damage-control and dictates the conditions to how and why she will remain in a marriage with you. She even has a timeline for how long you two will try.

Can’t you see how wrong this is?
This is like a thief that negotiates with you on how to return the goods in order to avoid jail – but still wants to keep some of the valuables.

I can tell you how this will develop if she has her way:

You two will find a way to coexist without dealing with the underlying reasons for why she had an affair. You will be full of insecurities that you can’t deal with because she won’t help you in solving them. If your marriage improves then she will constantly be thinking that it’s because she had the affair. A bad, negative and immoral act is turned into a “blessing”.
What’s more statistically a person that doesn’t deal with the underlying issues is 5 times more likely to cheat again compared to someone that hasn’t cheated.
So basically your marriage will be a time-bomb and only a question what happens first: You grow so subdued and resentful that you hate the marriage or she simply finds a new toy-boy.

I don’t believe in punishment. I don’t think you should take action to “punish” your wife for the affair. But you definitely need to take action to end the infidelity mentality and ensure the affair is over. This includes accepting the fact that if you don’t take action then you are doomed to live in infidelity forever.

Look at the words she used about her “mistakes”. I can’t see that she acknowledges that deciding to have an affair was not the appropriate response to supposedly losing emotional attachment to you. She basically is saying her decision to cheat was correct but her choice of lover wrong.
Are you going to let someone with this sort of “logic” dictate how to save your marriage? Think that’s going to work?

Friend: You really have to step up if you want a chance of saving the situation.

I think you have to realize the immense power you have. Your fear of losing your wife and losing all the years invested… Your wife has the same fears.
The difference between you two is that your wife (at the moment) wants to remain married for the security that provides but also have her lover(s) for the excitement that gives her. You on the other hand simply want to be married.

OK – so your fear losing her.
Is that really your biggest fear?
If so then why risk a 60 day trial period?
Why not make her an offer she can’t refuse; Tell her she can have all the lovers she wants only if she remains your wife. You could add details like ask her to use a condom, offer you occasional sex, act like she loves you. Could even ask her to be discreet so you can both act as if nothing’s wrong.

Does that sound like a plan? Sound good to you? Sound like something you can accept?

Well… If not then you need to realize your worst fear is not that you lose her but rather that she remains in infidelity.

Your WW insistence on going to the same spinning place really says it all. It’s like an alcoholic trying to quit insisting on doing his daily stop at the bar under the pretense of only drinking a soda. It’s only a matter of time before she feels secure enough to start associating with OM again.

Once you realize remaining in infidelity is the worst outcome you might find strength to act.
It’s an extremely significant moment when a betrayed husband has the strength to tell his wife that divorce is not the worst possible outcome, but rather having to share her. That she is totally free to do whatever she wants – she can attend any spinning class, have whomever she wants as a lover and seek whatever kicks she needs… but not as your wife. That she is totally free to choose: commit to the marriage (and that includes MC, IC, commitment to NC, cutting ties to the infidelity etc.) or acting in ways that confirm she no longer wants to be your wife.
You should also make it clear that YOU are willing to accept some blame for how things have developed and that you realize you will have to do a lot of work too, but until and unless she verbally and clearly commits to reconciliation on YOUR grounds then you will simply assume the marriage is over.

Then friend – you take steps to a) initiate the path of ending the marriage and b) actions to make the affair hard.

Like her insistence on going to the same spinning place? Well… why not a phone call to management threatening hell and high water if they don’t dismiss OM? (Trainers like him are a dime a dozen and he will have another job in a week. Not that it matters). Show your WW that her actions have consequences and you are not taking them lying down.

Divorce is a long, drawn out process. Starting the preparation, getting the required information, the arrangements of living conditions, separating accommodations…. This all takes time.
I told you early on we old-timers can tell you with +80 certainty how things will develop.

Follow the above advice and the initial reaction from WW will be to huff and puff and go along with having decided to divorce.
That will go on for 1-2 weeks.
As word goes out that she is in infidelity and what she’s been doing to you she will feel social pressure to reconsider.
When she realizes you mean business and when she realizes the social and financial impact of D then she will start returning.

Right now I give your marriages chances of recovery as 1 in 5 at best.
Follow the above advice and it goes up to 50/50.



"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5565 | Registered: Sep 2005
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 7:51 AM, June 14th (Saturday)

She states that she had "left me" long ago and that is what cleared the way for her to be open to other options.
Only an excuse to rationalize her wrongs into rights.

If she had left you long ago, why did she stay?

She has reluctantly agreed to NC with the OM. It sounds like the OM's GF put a stop to the affair.

Does your wife think she is still going to be with the OM even with his GF knowing about the affair, doesn't sound likely.

Make the affair hard to the point it isnt worth it for her to do anymore.


Posts: 4121 | Registered: Jun 2002
Onguard
New Member
Member # 43654
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, June 15th (Sunday)

Thank you again to all of you who are taking the time to hear my story and give me support and advice. It is slowly dawning on me that my situation is in fact no different than all of the others that have come before me. Im having a hard time accepting it because she is the only woman I have been with for my entire life. I have never known an adult reality without her in it. As such, I have been breaking every rule of the 180 and not following the guidance that all of you have been providing. And, as you all know, it is not working. It is making it worse for me and easier for her to justify her A and prepare to move on without me.

We went out last night with a group of people to see if we could try and just have a decent time without talking about our issues. I was stunned by her ability to party like she was celebrating. I did my very best to play the role but the whole time for me was forced. She, on the other hand, was like a college kid on spring break. We got home late and there was not even a hint of possible intimacy. And during the night she pretty much ignored me with a few exceptions where she came over to stand next to me. Probably just to make it look good in front of our friends.

I know that I need to accept the reality that she has presented me. She has abandoned me during the most challenging time in my life as I have battled depression for the past 6 months. During this I have been begging her for her emotional support and love and instead of being there for me, she was giving her love to another man. Then, he ends their A and she still is showing no remorse or sincere desire to R. Her feelings for me are gone and now I have to find the strength to accept that and move on with my life.

I would like to think that if I were not battling depression that this would be easier. Because it feels like I have been run over by a train. I look at our neighbors and I get very emotional. Why did this have to happen to my marriage? Why can't we be at peace and happy like we were for most of our lives? Why has my wife become this selfish person? It feels like I am completely alone. That's why I have been trying to communicate with her to no avail. "Do you realize what is about to happen if you don't wake up?" It is like talking to a wall. Our family is going to be fractured, our home will be sold, our friends will know everything that has happened. I keep thinking that it's not too late, right now, if we both commit to working hard on R, we can do it. Crickets..... No, worse than crickets, she feels like I am smothering her and trying to control her.

My son has been phenomenal to me through all of this. I have contacted an attorney and I have the paperwork to begin the D process. She has also already hinted that she is not going to settle for anything less than what "she deserves". So this is probably going to be a fun process. Some of my friends have suggested that I should separate before deciding on D. I don't see how that would help in my situation. Separation seems right for two people who have similar opinions on the M, but here we have a totally one sided situation. Also, She is very unstable and has been drinking much more than usual. I would not be surprised if she had another A or ONS along the way. Separation would only delay the inevitable and provide her with more opportunity while still being married.


BH 44
WW 43
Married 19yrs
DDay: 5/27/14

Posts: 18 | Registered: Jun 2014
saveus
Member
Member # 43251
Default  Posted: 2:59 PM, June 15th (Sunday)

Hi Onguard. So much of what you say about your WW reminds me of mine. So, sending you strength & support, and hoping we can learn from each other. The very best of luck to you.


Me: BS/39
Her: WS/37
Together: 15 years
Married: 7 years
1 amazing little boy, 5, the love of our lives
D-Day 1: 14/4/2014 (EA/one night PA)
D-Day 2: 30/4/2014 (sexting/PA longer & ongoing)
D-Day 3: 4/5/2014 (earlier PA, another OM)

Posts: 260 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: UK
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 5:58 PM, June 15th (Sunday)

She has also already hinted that she is not going to settle for anything less than what "she deserves". So this is probably going to be a fun process.

More than likely, you are in a no fault state. The infidelity will have no bearing on the results of your divorce settlement. But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't arm yourself with knowledge, and at least be aware of the probable outcome of a divorce.

Seriously, your wife could file today, and never look back. That is a real possibility. What you need to do is accept this as a possibility....not run away from it out of fear. Like Bigger stated, this is NOT the worst possible outcome.

I can't imagine how badly this depression is affecting you. I have never experienced depression, but from the horror stories I have read, I would wish it on no one. But if there is ever a time that you have to stand up, and face the brunt of reality....this is it. You CAN emerge on the other side as a strong, happy, and confident individual, but you must work past your fears. Obviously, much easier said than done----but still the truth, nonetheless.

Find your righteous anger. Channel it productively. You can do this.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2072 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
Onguard
New Member
Member # 43654
Default  Posted: 4:19 PM, June 19th (Thursday)

My attempts to execute the 180 continue to fail. I had done it for about 36 hours and then she asked me if I would spend the night with some friends of ours at their lake house. I agreed. Again, once she started drinking it was like she was celebrating. Here I am trying to muster enough strength to not make it obvious that my entire life is crumbling and she is singing and dancing like its party time. She also was very outspoken on a couple of occasions regarding "doing NEW things and changing it up". I mean, it was clear that she was rubbing my nose in the fact that she is feeling liberated from marriage and is moving on to experience new things.

It hurts so much that the woman who I have known for over 30 years has turned into a selfish, heartless person who has no concern for her children or me. She is on this kick to do only what makes her happy now. She acts like she is on some liberated philosophical mission.

I am also convinced that there is still communication going on with her AP. She guards her phone like her life depended on it. When she isnt holding it, she sets it face down, always within eyesight. I have her pin but she has said that if I need to look into her phone that it will only push her farther away. The 180 says no snooping as well. Also, there are apps now that can allow her to text without any trace. One is called iblacklist. It is touted as being almost undetectable. You don't even see it on the phone as the app itself is disguised. Either way, it's not about me proving that she is still involved with her AP. It should be about her proving to me that she is not. If I feel insecure about her then I need to decide that she has chosen not to continue with our M.

She has been very clear with me that her feelings for me are more like a brother than a spouse. She is not sure if she will ever get those feelings back. I'm having a very hard time accepting that this is really the end. But at this point what would I really be losing? She has not been there for me emotionally in over 8 months. She has not been loving or intimate with me for over 6 months. She has given her heart and body to another man while I suffered from a horrible depression. She has not done anything to make me feel loved or happy in a very long time. So why am I still so afraid to end my M? I am hoping that she has a complete change of heart and returns to provide me with love and happiness.... Hope is not a strategy. I have to be willing to lose my M if I have any chance to save it.

My son is convinced that I should file for D. He says that it is the only thing that is going to slap her hard enough to wake her up. And he is certain that she will be scared to death if I did. "But even if she isn't, who cares, there are so many better people for you to love than her." "She is my mom and I think she is a horrible person, what does that tell you Dad?" He does not want to see us R but is willing to support me if that is what will make me happy. I am so lucky to have such a great son!


BH 44
WW 43
Married 19yrs
DDay: 5/27/14

Posts: 18 | Registered: Jun 2014
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 4:45 PM, June 19th (Thursday)

What happened to the 60 days together to see if "we" could work it out.

Seems like all she wanted to was have a place to stay for the next 60 days.

It is very hard to say why and how someone can change just like that, I don't have that answer and would be very rich if I did. But it seems to happen often.

Since she is the one who said lets try and work this out and NC with the OM, why dont you ask her why she is not doing anything that she promised. It does appear she cannot keep the simplest of promises.

It must be bad for your son to say those things. And you are lucky you have his support.

Do what you need to know, otherwise you might be sorry looking back 10 years from now.


Posts: 4121 | Registered: Jun 2002
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 5:15 PM, June 19th (Thursday)

I know the feeling of depression..It is hard enough to get motivation to go out to a movie with friends or do something else nice for yourself on a given day, much less do/make any life changing decisions and interventions for yourself..

Family support and the support of trusted friends is one way out of this rabbit hole (depression)..It is awesome that your son is wise and supportive of your needs, but he runs the risk of being pulled in two different directions someday because he is too close to ground zero and how it affects him...These questions might run through his mind someday..."Do I help mom or do I help dad?" "Mom is mad at me because I helped Dad" KWIM?

So I would say find plenty of IRL support and continue 180ing your WW..This will help you get a stronger clearer head...
That 60 day trial is a stupid ludicrous proposition..I got one of those from my WH' too...I had until his next birthday to ship up or he was gonna want out of our marriage..Too bad he didn't leave..I wish he had..Instead, we are in house separated until I have my ducks in a row to leave...


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1257 | Registered: Nov 2011
LifeisCrazy
Member
Member # 38287
Default  Posted: 5:39 PM, June 19th (Thursday)

You want to know why she's still flaunting herself? Why she continues to act the way she does? Because she's not scared of you.

She thinks you're a chump - someone who's so in love with her that he can't stand up for himself.

Well, one of the main things that you will see throughout all of the posts here is the absolute need for strength. To be a man - no matter how much it hurts - and start demanding certain actions. DEMANDING them. Not negotiating, but demanding.

"Wife, by lunchtime I have all your passwords for every device you own. Period."

"I'm not living my life like that."

"Fine - then get the fuck out." And pick up her pocketbook, her coat, her phone and throw them out on the street.

Tell everyone. EVERYONE. Stop being nice. Stop being considerate of her - has she been considerate of YOU?

I am in the minority here but I am perfectly fine with letting her know that if she doesn't get out of the house immediately you're going to sit down and let your 13 year old know what she did. It is gloves off time, baby - and Papa has come to fight.

Bigger, as usual, is right. She's free to screw whoever she wants. But not as your wife. She made certain vows to you and if she doesn't want to keep them - fine. But she doesn't get to live under your roof at the same time.

File for divorce, as many have said. Remember, that doesn't mean that you will GET divorced - but it is time to show her that her clock is ticking and it's decision time.

The funny thing is - almost all here will agree that when you start acting strong, when you lay down the law ("We are going to IC. You have no say in it if you want to remain married.") things have a strange way of turning around.

What you don't want - the very, very worst option - is to be married to someone who has checked out of the marriage. Force her to make a decision, one way or the other.

Good luck, brother.


"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

Posts: 158 | Registered: Jan 2013
Onguard
New Member
Member # 43654
Default  Posted: 10:20 PM, June 21st (Saturday)

Well, this morning my WW went to the 10am spin class even though her AP teaches at 11am and it's almost certain that they would see each other. When she got home I told her that I was hurt about her decision. She proclaimed that she is going to make decisions based on what she wants to do and not concern herself with what anyone else thinks. It's her life and if I don't like it then too bad. I reminded her that she had promised NC. "I was not there to contact him, I was there to work out." She then proclaimed that IF he tried to contact her that she would want to talk to him in order to get closure. The A ended when he suddenly texted her that it was over and that she should not attend any more of his classes. She says that he had said some "interesting" things to her the day before he ended it. She would not say exactly what he said but indicated that it was something about a future together. Now, I want my WW to come back to the M and try to make it work, but it is becoming more and more clear that she wanted a long term future with her AP and that is a bitter pill to swallow.

With regards to her earlier proposal to try and get along for 60 days... I told her that unless she was feeling sincere remorse for the A as well as make a commitment to the marriage then I was not interested in her proposal.

I have also exposed her affair to one of my closest friends who told his wife. His wife immediately called my WW and engaged her about the A. My WW went nutz! I told her that I was perfectly justified to ask my friend for support. WW has her entire family to support her and I have my Son. I asked my friend not to tell his W but he did anyway. I'm not sure if this will end up being a good move or a bad one.

My 180 continues to fail. I cannot believe how hard it is to stay away. I am going to try my very best again tomorrow. It must be the depression that is causing me to be so focused on "fixing things". I must find the strength to back off and be patient.

My WW is really in love with her AP. She is furious that he ended it so abruptly as well as banished her from his classes by choosing his OW over her. When my WW talks about it I can see the anger in her face. And if I dare to comment about how he is a professional player she is quick to tell me that I don't know him or what they had. And yes, she does not fear me or respect me. 2 days after Dday she sent me some texts full of remorse and a sincere desire to R. But since then (about 3 weeks) she has done the 180 on me! No remorse, no R. Just, "I need time and space to focus on me. We cannot do this while we are both living in the same house, you should leave for at least a month." Her IC told her that she should not commit to anything until I have overcome my depression. What!? Her IC also said that my mental health is not her issue. Now, I agree with that in theory but when you get the bomb of infidelity dropped on your head it tends to affect your mental health a bit! I don't want her to commit to our M unless she sincerely wants it, obviuosly. But to say that she should wait until I am fully healed from the knife wound before she helps me pull out the knife is insane!

Thank you all for your knowledge and support.


BH 44
WW 43
Married 19yrs
DDay: 5/27/14

Posts: 18 | Registered: Jun 2014
ZedLeppelin
Member
Member # 40895
Default  Posted: 10:26 PM, June 21st (Saturday)

So...you've done nothing?

Posts: 198 | Registered: Oct 2013
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 10:40 PM, June 21st (Saturday)

2x4.

Have you read and understood a thing anyone has said to you here?

She has checked out, is stalking the OM who kicked her to the curb.

She couldn't care less about how you feel. She only cares that you provide a roof over her head. Her initial texts about R reflected her justifiable fear that you'd toss her to the street. That didn't happen, she saw your weakness, and all thought of R was quickly forgotten.

There can be no R when one spouse doesn't want R. She wants OM.

Fog? Sure. But you are the victim. She's blaming you by probably falsely quoting or providing false information to her IC. You yourself say she's in love with him. Believe her actions you've seen.

Quit describing him to her. She loves him, not you, and won't believe a word you say. Player, cheater, none of those words mean a thing to one who believes she has a "special" relationship going on.

Forget 180 and drop divorce papers on her. She'll either bolt or change. You'll be out of Limbo/Hell.

If you can't consider doing this, you will eventually regret it.

Google Myth of Sysiphus. Greek myth about a dude condemned to spend eternity pushing big rocks up hill all day, only to have them fall down and the next day he pushes them back up again only to have them fall down, forever! You might take a lesson.

YOU did NOTHING WRONG. If her tender feelings require space, let her move her spinning ass out, not you.

She's still in high school -- plotting to recover the boyfriend who dumped her. That's her focus. Let her think about that all by her lonesome self.


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 10:49 PM, June 21st (Saturday)

Schadenfreude just put it straight to you. Again, there is no such thing as R with someone who still wants the OM and to be in the affair. If this guy breaks up with his girlfriend and wants to get laid tomorrow she'll be right there for him.. First, she outs you on trial for 69 days, now this latest behavior.
No one can give you advice or help you if you want to stay paralyzed I to doing nothing.
Here you are in your 60 day R period, and she is parading her ass up to spinning class where he cannot a avoid her. How much more humiliation are you going to out up with.
She needs to be knocked off the fence or out of your house
You can post here 1000 times and that will not change. You can't R with a woman who could give a crap about you and is chasing another man.
File the Damm papers and stand up for yourself

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Calabro
Member
Member # 8809
Default  Posted: 1:14 AM, June 22nd (Sunday)

One simple question. How does your staying with a women have no respect or love for you going to help with your depression ?


NO ONE CAN MAKE YOU FEEL INFERIOR WITHOUT YOUR CONSENT

Posts: 65 | Registered: Nov 2005
Onguard
New Member
Member # 43654
Default  Posted: 7:32 AM, June 22nd (Sunday)

I appreciate the 2x4's. I need something to jolt me into a different course of action, clearly. She says that she needs time and space to "figure herself out". She is open about the fact that she emotionally checked out of the marriage about a year ago and that her feelings for me are not there right now. She admits to being in pain over the loss of her AP. She firmly believes that our marriage was "terminally ill" due to neglect even though I have tried (bad idea I know) to point out how many good times we had over the years. So ending the M would not have a really big impact on her emotionally right now.

I know for a fact that I need to stay away from her for a while. I'm just wondering if filing for divorce right away is the best idea. I want to save my marriage but I agree that divorce would not be the worst outcome. The worst would be to live in infidelity with a woman who didn't want to be with me above all others. She says that it is over with her AP and that she will not contact him. But her actions yesterday said otherwise. When I asked her what she would do if he contacted her, first she says "that's not going to happen." Then she says, she would tell me. Then she says, "I would want to talk to him and get closure." She is in love with him, will this fade over time? She is not in love with me, will this come back over time? Should I be patient with her while she sorts herself out and give her time and space? As suggested by a couple of IC's. Or should I drop divorce papers on her and force the issue. She is not in love with me right now so it seems logical that trying to force it would only make things worse.

Kicking her out of our home would be tough. We have a 13 year old and I travel on business quite a bit. If someone is going to leave the home it would have to be me. ZedLeppelin asked what I had done. Other than divorce, what can I do? I can ignore her, move out, expose the A or divorce. In the meantime, my heart is broken, I am suffering from horrible depression, 3-4 hours of sleep a night, no appetite, no confidence. What a nightmare to have to deal with this during a bout of depression. The old me would be doing things very differently but now I have dug a deep hole.


BH 44
WW 43
Married 19yrs
DDay: 5/27/14

Posts: 18 | Registered: Jun 2014
hard_yards
Member
Member # 23549
Default  Posted: 7:44 AM, June 22nd (Sunday)

Onguard, I'm so sorry you find yourself dealing with this, but deal with it you must.

Some of the posts are quite hard hitting, but, as hard as it is to read, it's all true. There's no need for guess work here, there's always a depressing sameness in how these things play out. The predictions are accurate, because you're on a well trodden path, it's all happened before and been said, over and over again.

You really need to stop conversing with her, stop telling her how you feel, how you're hurting, she doesn't care. 180, 180, 180......

Don't hang around the house hoping she'll have a "come to Jesus" moment, it's not going to happen as things stand right now.

The only hope in changing her current behaviour is to make continuing it very uncomfortable for her.

Cancel her credit cards if they are secondaries to yours, take half of any saving/investments and put them where she can't access them. If you pay for her phone, cancel it. Tell people who might influence her, what's going on, nothing like a cold harsh dose of reality to wake someone up. Let her feel the derision and disgust of others, her fantasy life might not seem like cloud nine after all.

Tell the OM's wife, if she doesn't already know he's a serial cheat she deserves to know the truth.

One of the main things to protect is your self-respect, sometimes it's all you've got and it's taken a direct hit over this. It's no wonder you're feeling even more depressed.

You simply must let go of the outcome, let her fall/fail alone, you will never win, love or nice her back to the marriage. Care for yourself first, protect your heart, get some help to deal with your depression, it's clouding your judgement, and preventing you from making realistic decisions for yourself.

We all feel for you, dealing with this is something you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy.

You are only 44, there's a huge future out there for you, plenty of time to find someone who loves and respects you, when you're ready, should you wish to.

Remember this too, your WW is infatuated with a man who doesn't want her.... she's in for a massive fall, it's not your job to be holding the safety net for her, he doesn't want her...... after this, why should you?

Hugs man, take care of yourself.



I feel like I'm in a parallel universe... everything looks the same... but something's just not right...

Posts: 1241 | Registered: Apr 2009
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 7:54 AM, June 22nd (Sunday)

Again, your depression is not going to go away while you allow her to do this to you. Sure she says she won't contact him again. What do call going to spin class in her little exercise outfit when she knows he has to be there ? She is trying to lure him back. All it is going to take is one phone call from this guy and you really think she will not sleep with him again. ?
So you are at the total mercy of her spinning instructors libido.
How could you not be in a state of depression
By pointing out all the good times, all you are doing is begging her to love you and want the M.
I don't know what idiots you are seeing in IC, but you need to read the threads of advice on here about BEFORE YOU RECONCILE. It can't be done with a WS that does not want to give up the AP. If the statements she has made to you do not change there will be another AP after she gets over this one because you are PLAN B.
You can use your child as rationale for putting up with this . You will wind up giving yourself a serious medical problem if you continue this..
She is NOT your wife now. She is a woman living in your home trying to figure out a way to continue her relationship with another man. Divorce does not happen overnight, but it has to start with you pulling the plug on this shit.
How long can you exist on three hours of sleep a night and work and travel. ???
She is making it easier for you by being so shitty.
Do what you need to do. You have no chance to win her back with what you are doing

[This message edited by Badhurt at 7:56 AM, June 22nd (Sunday)]


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
hard_yards
Member
Member # 23549
Default  Posted: 7:59 AM, June 22nd (Sunday)

We must have been typing at the same time!

First off, do not move out of the house, this can have implications further down the line. I don't know where you are, but please, get yourself off to the best divorce lawyer you can to find out the facts should you end up dealing with a divorce, knowledge is power, and you need power.

Read the 180 and live it, it'll help you become stronger, with a clearer vision of what you will and won't accept... stop letting her dictate what's going to happen.

As for closure yeah, right.... that'll help her.... rubbish, their paths should never cross again if she had any honest intention of trying to begin to address what she's done to your marriage.

And that alone should be a deal-breaker....

Please, if you haven't already, get yourself along to your Dr and get some meds to help you deal with this and your depression, find a great IC for yourself, infidelity takes a huge toll on your physical and mental well-being.

Hugs.



I feel like I'm in a parallel universe... everything looks the same... but something's just not right...

Posts: 1241 | Registered: Apr 2009
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 8:30 AM, June 22nd (Sunday)

I want to save my marriage but I agree that divorce would not be the worst outcome. The worst would be to live in infidelity with a woman who didn't want to be with me above all others.

The worst scenario is EXACTLY the one that you are living---one with a remorseless spouse, who is flaunting her "power" in your face. She is almost taunting you with her actions.

Every member here can scream at their computers for you to start listening to what we are saying, but ultimately, you have to make the conscious decision to want to get better. You have to put you and your children first, and stop trying to win your wife back. It will never, ever, happen.

One part of what makes this so difficult, is time. While it has only been weeks since you have joined here, it seems like an eternity of inaction on your part, because your posts are full of the wrong things to do. We get that, and understand it, but that still doesn't change the facts that things will not only fail to improve for you, but will only get worse, if you continue on this path.

I like LifeisCrazy's post, although legally you cannot kick her out. But it show you taking control of yourself, and standing up for what is right. While you legally cannot throw her out of the house, you can throw her shit out of your bedroom...and tell hell to sleep wherever else she wants. On the couch, on the floor, AT HER FUCKING LOVER'S HOUSE....but not in YOUR room. These are the little parts of taking back control of your life.

Stop focusing on how to get her back into the marriage. Focus on how to get her OUT of the marriage, so your healing can continue. If she wants to come back to you later, with a desire to R, then, and only then, should you even entertain that thought. But without a partner that has your best interests in mind, why would you want anything else?

As cold as this may seem, 29 years means nothing, if your partner thinks of it as nothing. You can't build on the past if you both aren't committed. And not only is she non-committal, she is anti-committal...because she detests you...due to HER brokenness. Not only can't you reconcile with that, you can't live a life like that.

Not only do you need to continue working on your 180, you need to work on No Contact(or as little as possible) with her. There is no reason to engage her while she is like this.

Stop trying to save what she does not want saved.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2072 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, June 22nd (Sunday)

She firmly believes that our marriage was "terminally ill" due to neglect even though I have tried (bad idea I know) to point out how many good times we had over the years.
First of all, this is an excuse, nothing more than her excuse to rationalize her wrongs.

This is a lie, an excuse. She could have and should have talked to you about the marriage situation BEFORE she had an affair and made your life a living hell.

Look at her and tell her these things. She made the choice to completely ruin the marriage. Instead of having an affair, she could have worked with you on the marriage or just said she wanted a divorce.

Instead she took the selfish way out. She had an affair and might or might not have real feelings. But this is nothing more than an excuse to justify her completely and totally wrong actions.

Do not look back and think you could or should have done this or that. You were lied to. When someone is lied to, they do not know otherwise, all because she lied to you.

Lies are so devastating, that they are actually against the law in many cases.

Her lying and lies is what ruined your marriage.


Posts: 4121 | Registered: Jun 2002
self-rescuer
Member
Member # 35059
Default  Posted: 8:05 PM, June 22nd (Sunday)

I know you feel overwhelmed by all these hard- hitting suggestions.

The truth is, that the process of coming to terms with your new reality is slow and arduous.

But this I can guarantee - once you take back your power and foster self respect, once you believe in your worth and show your children your strength - whatever the marital outcome - you will begin to heal.


BW 53 WXH 56 & still bewildered
D-Day 9-15-11
Divorce 3-13-13

Just trust yourself, then you will know how to live.
~ Goethe


Posts: 506 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: the south
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 4:13 AM, June 23rd (Monday)

Oh man!
Not sure if I should post… Sort of feels like punching someone after he’s already been hit by Mike Tyson. But I can’t really stand and watch this scenario without at least trying…

First of all:
I want to apologise for what I said in my first post to you. I told you that we old timers could predict with 80+% accuracy how things develop. I then gave your present situation a 1/5 chances of surviving.
Sorry for giving you that glimmer of hope because IF YOU DON’T ACT… you really don’t have ANY chance at all. Not 1/5, not 1/10 but plain and simple ZERO – NADA – NULL.
And I’m willing to say that with not 80% accuracy but with 100% confidence.


Other than divorce, what can I do?


More or less every single post above mine makes some suggestion on what to do. There might be some variances in the steps – IMHO some make more sense than others – but basically even the worst suggestion put forth is better than doing nothing.

Go back to my post. I make some detailed suggestions on what to do.

I don’t support throwing her out. First of all it’s probably illegal and second it will be seen as domestic violence by a court.

Consider starting by doing this:
List the suggestions made by us posters.
Post the list along with your response on what’s keeping you from following the suggestion and/or any question you might have.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5565 | Registered: Sep 2005
Onguard
New Member
Member # 43654
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, June 23rd (Monday)

Thanks to all for taking the time to help me throught this living hell. The 2x4's are needed. I am disgusted with myself for being so docile. I hate to keep making excuses but I was never like this before depression. I also know that there is no more time for excuses. No matter how much it hurts or how alone I feel I must take steps to protect myself and my children.

Bigger, you have given me some great advice so I will do exactly as you suggested and list out the actions posted and my thoughts about those actions:

See an attorney. I have talked to an attorney and have the preliminary paperwork. However, I still have not had a face to face meeting to discuss my legal rights to do things like cancel credit cards, cell phone or divide up joint accounts. My WW does not know about this. She thinks I have only done research on the web.

180. I have started and stopped but mainly I have failed. I am on day 2 since falling off the horse on Saturday. I am commited to staying the course from here forward no matter what.

IC. She just started this.

Inform the studio about the affair. She is extremely addicted to this studio. For years this has been her passion. I believe that if I were to inform the owners of the studio that she would leave the home and file for D and it would get ugly. This would be a step I would take as a last resort before D.

Exposure. Her family knows, my son knows, two of our closest friends know. A few of my own personal friends know. I have not blown the lid off yet however.

File for D. I feel like it is a little early to do this and I would like to successfully implement the 180 for a period of time as well as meet with an attorney to take steps to separate our finances first.

Throw her out of the bedroom. She and I
have been sleeping in separate rooms for 6 months.

Tell her to move out. Possible but complicated. We have a 13 year old daughter and I travel during the week. I would rather not physically separate unless we are going forward with D.


Here is how I see it right now:

She gradually fell out of love with me due to not having her needs met. Neglected.

She began to fall in love with her AP because they have a shared passion and he was showing her attention and making her feel good about herself when she was starving from neglect.

I was hit with depression which made me appear dependent on her for my survival. I sensed her distancing and I pursued, begged and tried to reason with her. This only pushed her farther from me and more towards her AP. (5 months).

Now her AP has broken off the affair and she has told me about it. She said that she wanted to work on us and her initial reaction showed sincere remorse and a desire to R. My initial reaction, as expected, was to express shock, anger, pain, confusion. This pushed her away. Then I pursued which pushed her even farther away. Which is why she now says that she does not have "in love" feelings for me and wonders if they will ever return.

It feels like I need to do a hard 180 for myself right now and see how things go for a month or so. I need to meet with an attorney and initiate steps to protect myself financially and make it uncomfortable for her.

This will hopefully help her to see me getting stronger and more independent. It will also give her time to think about her choices and actions as opposed to resisting my attempts to control her and win her back. It will give her time to get over her feelings of loss for the A.

The big question I have is whether or not to file for D right away. The posts all say that I should do this in order to shock her into reality. But based on her emotions right now I think this could backfire. I want to try to R but she is on the fence. To her, right now, the M does not look appealing. Doesn't it make sense for me to give the 180 a serious effort before filing? Maybe she will value me and our M more than she does now. (It cant get much worse). It will allow me to regain some confidence and self esteem as well.


BH 44
WW 43
Married 19yrs
DDay: 5/27/14

Posts: 18 | Registered: Jun 2014
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 10:29 AM, June 23rd (Monday)

From your posts, it appears,that you aren't doing a 180' maybe a 30 or even a 45' but not much more. Far too much discussion of how she feels, how she views the m, what went wrong in her view, and the like. If you care about and discuss with her what she's feeling, you're far from a 180. And now you're fearful she'll file for divorce.

Even you have admitted D is not the worst outcome.

Everything you've done has pushed her further away. Why? She doesn't care how you feel. You should start calling her MeMe instead of her real name.

She's on the fence? Only because OM dropped her. Al he has to do is smile at her, ask for for a,quick roll in the hay, and she's gone.

Her actions, and not her feelings, should be all that matters. File and serve the papers. See if she'll try to salvage this M and see if you can, long term, accept her horrible actions.

[This message edited by Schadenfreude at 10:34 AM, June 23rd (Monday)]


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 10:31 AM, June 23rd (Monday)

On guard

You are rationalizing again for reasons not to do it, hoping that if you do not piss her off she will come out of fog. That is not going to happen. The 180 is proving more difficult for you than her and would be more likely to work if she showed any sign of remorse. She is not.
While you give her this time , she will continue to not provide you with anything to help your needs, no companionship, no sex if you are in separate bedrooms. So basically , you are just hanging around with your guts churning while she has fun at parties and goes about her life like normal.
What is more likely to happen is that while you are twirling your thumbs waiting to see if she wants planb , she continues to parade herself in front of him hoping to rekindle the A , and if you do not think she is doing that you are in Disneyland.! Remember, he broke it off because his gf caught him. Your WW had no intention. Of breaking it off and would have him again in a New York second.
Of course the D papers would piss her off. Aren't you pissed off?????
You can stop the D anytime you want to. Being a patsy will not make her love you . And you will not be told the truth about what her IC tells her or what she tells them. Don't be surprised if she tells you her IC said what she is doing is fine until she " finds herself". Meanwhile you continue to get shit sandwich.
You will NEVER know for sure what will happen if you do this or that. The only thing you do know is what IS happening while you do nothing


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 10:35 AM, June 23rd (Monday)

She gradually fell out of love with me due to not having her needs met. Neglected.

She began to fall in love with her AP because they have a shared passion and he was showing her attention and making her feel good about herself when she was starving from neglect.

WRONG!

Reverse it for one thing. The affair started or her wanting an affair started before she fell out of love for you.

The OM is always poisonous. They are the ones that put even more negative thoughts towards the WW marriage. Of course, how else do you think they keep the affair going to get what they want.

The OM is every bit as selfish as the WW.

Your wife is starving for attention from other guys. This has nothing to do with you neglecting her.

I was hit with depression which made me appear dependent on her for my survival. I sensed her distancing and I pursued, begged and tried to reason with her. This only pushed her farther from me and more towards her AP. (5 months).
Wrong again. Remember the wedding vows through sickness....

I have wondered why a needing position always seems to push the WW to the OM. But I think it is more of a show of making the affair easy.

Because being a hard ass instead of showing need, makes the affair hard to continue versus trying to nice her back.

Your depression pushed her to the AP. BS

It rains and the WS runs to their AP. A hard day at work, the WS runs to the AP. WS is having a bad hair day and they run to the AP.

DO not believe for a second your depression had anything at all to pushing her to the OM.

Show her independence. Close all joint accounts and credit cards. Does she work?

Always remember this the next time you think the OM showed her attention that you were not.

How hard is it to be in an affair. How hard is it for the affair to be more fun that being at home.

It is not hard, in fact it is very easy.

Does the OM have to pay her bills? No
Does the OM have to put up with her when she is sick? No
Does the OM have to constantly hear from her how he is neglecting her or asking too many questions? No
Does the OM have to worry about the mortgage payments or a sick child? No

Affairs are easy and phony!

And just because she said the OM ended the affair, doesnt mean it is true. You need to verify that before you can even consider the thought of R.

Make the affair miserable. Make her pay all of her own bills.

Who pays for this gym that she is so in love with going to?

If you are, stop immediately.


Posts: 4121 | Registered: Jun 2002
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 10:40 AM, June 23rd (Monday)

Let‘s be clear on this:

I am disgusted with myself for being so docile

Onguard – your reactions and actions up to now have also been very typical of husbands sharing comparable stories as yours. Don’t feel bad or don’t sell yourself short. It takes time to reach the stage where you see action beats inaction and our goads and 2x4 are meant to speed you up to that point.

I want to address a couple of your points:

Regarding telling the studio:
What do you think the studio will do? Print a poster of her? Kick her out? She’s a CLIENT and if they take action against her they better have great liability coverage. Chances are they will terminate OM or at least this will place great pressure on them not being in any form of personal contact at the studio.
Once again: If your biggest fear is your wife filing for divorce then simply accept an open marriage.
Addicted to the studio? Well buddy – it’s actually your WW tendency to give way to her addictions that got her into the affair.

What’s your goal with the 180? Have you told your wife what you need? Has she complied?
Well – you told her you need her to stop going to her studio and she is doing what?
Doing the 180 without the WS knowing what your requirements are doesn’t really make sense to me.
Doing the 180 and the WS still not doing what they know they need to do… not sustainable.

You can tell her that unless she commits to the marriage then it’s over AND not file right away.

Filing for D.
No need for that right away. Make your stance clear:
Wife – To reconcile I need THIS.
Be careful to make your list clear, concise and fair. For example: she doesn’t have to stop spinning but not at THAT studio while OM is working there.

I guess she’s going to spinning to stay in form. Have you two considered joining a gym TOGETHER? Maybe one where she can to some cardio-related class while you hit the treadmill or weights? This is something my wife and I did and it gave us a lot more time together.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5565 | Registered: Sep 2005
self-rescuer
Member
Member # 35059
Default  Posted: 3:37 PM, June 23rd (Monday)

Gently - she is completely checked out. She is emotionally gone.

You are going to have to make a huge gesture to get her attention.

She is disrespectful and utterly dismissive of you and your gut wrenching pain.

This is still so very fresh and you are so conflicted but hear me when I say YOU CANNOT NICE HER BACK INTO THE MARRIAGE.

It is a common mistake to walk on eggshells to keep from driving them away but, my friend, she is already gone. Only the risk of losing her secure home life and the comfort YOU afford her will force her back into reality.

You need to have some non- negotiables. And the hard thing is that they are boundaries she cannot ignore. Determine what they are are let her know.

As soon as you let go of the unrealistic notion that if you're just a little kinder, patient, understanding or whatever, she will come back - you can really take back your power.


BW 53 WXH 56 & still bewildered
D-Day 9-15-11
Divorce 3-13-13

Just trust yourself, then you will know how to live.
~ Goethe


Posts: 506 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: the south
Dare2Trust
Member
Member # 21183
Default  Posted: 5:53 PM, June 25th (Wednesday)

ON Guard,

You stated:

Kicking her out of our home would be tough. We have a 13 year old and I travel on business quite a bit
.

Have any of the posters suggested that your WW would not be a responsible Parent/Mother simply because she's engaged in an adulterous affair?

Do you assume (or known) that you WW will relinquish Custody of your 13 year old daughter to you...if you do divorce her?

I would assume: IF you wife leaves - she would take her 13 year old daughter with her; unless she is in fact displaying behaviors that would warranty you asking for Full Custodial Custody of this daughter.

Since your wife appears to be off "spinning" during the day - it doesn't appear she works during the day: SO, why can't your WW take care of the daughter, while you travel for work.

I do agree with the other posters:
You have asked for help/suggestions...but you aren't "actively listening" and putting any of this help or suggestions into action.

I know your D-Day was recent - and it's a very difficult time for you, and I'm sincerely sorry for the pain you are going through.
But you must recognize:
You cannot "reconcile" this marriage with a WIFE who does not choose RECONCILIATION, herself.
As pointed out to you:
---Your WIFE is still in "the cheating mode...and she'd rush right back into the arms
(and bed) of the OM if he gave her the slightest indication he wanted to resume this adulterous affair.

SO: YOU must take ACTION to protect yourself and your children legally and financially at this point.

You can't "talk...negotiate...shame...or NICE" your wife out of believing she loves/wants this OM. It's really that simple.

Again, I'm sorry for the pain you're going through -- but you've asked for help/suggestions; and you've been offered exactly that.
I hope you will take the time to stop making excuses about "WHY you can't/won't" listen...and try to do what's in the best interests of you and your minor children.

We are all here to support you.


Me BS 59
WH 58
Married 19 years
D-Day Nov 3, 2005
Child: Adopted Daughter 21 College Student now

I can understand being alone; but I hate being with someone and feeling lonely.


Posts: 6136 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Texas
Onguard
New Member
Member # 43654
Default  Posted: 10:42 PM, June 25th (Wednesday)

So the bottom line is that I should take the following steps:

1. Talk to an attorney and file D papers.
2. Tell her my conditions for R. In writing. Sincere remorse, commitment to the marriage, accountability, no more spin classes at that studio.
3. Tell her that unless she accepts these terms then I will assume she no longer wants our M and will proceed accordingly.
4. Call the studio and expose the AP.
5. Close her credit cards that are attached to mine.
6. Separate our assets.
7. Firm 180

What else am I missing? I have an appointment with the attorney on Friday.

Last night she left home at around 5pm without saying a word to me or the kids. At 9pm I texted her to see if she had fed the dog. She replied 2 hours later. At midnight she still was not home. At 3am I found her passed out in the back seat of my car in the garage and totally hammered. Evidently she had gone to a concert and gotten dropped off at 1am but could not get into the house. I had to leave town this morning so I got almost no sleep. She has texted me apologies all day. I have not responded. We were supposed to go to an event this Saturday with friends. I will not be going.

What else can I do besides work on me and my kids? You are all being a great help and I appreciate your time and patience. This is my life and I want to get it right.


BH 44
WW 43
Married 19yrs
DDay: 5/27/14

Posts: 18 | Registered: Jun 2014
mike7
Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 10:55 PM, June 25th (Wednesday)

if you do the things you just listed that will be a good start.

about her concert last evening. she probably got laid as well. doesn't sound like a good mother does she?

I'm sorry you're going through this. It stops when you decide to stop it. Good luck.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
ZedLeppelin
Member
Member # 40895
Default  Posted: 11:08 PM, June 25th (Wednesday)

2. Tell her my conditions for R. In writing. Sincere remorse, commitment to the marriage, accountability, no more spin classes at that studio.
3. Tell her that unless she accepts these terms then I will assume she no longer wants our M and will proceed accordingly.

If she confronts you, do not back down on the above two. The reasoning is that she has to come to you first. She has to show you that she is 100% committed to your marriage, before you can begin building a new one together.

By backing down on the above, you are sort of tipping your hand that you want to reconcile. You have to show her that you are more than capable of moving on from her (even if inside you desperately want to reconcile). When she has shown enough remorse, then you can lay a plan/conditions for R.

Wish you well.

[This message edited by ZedLeppelin at 11:09 PM, June 25th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 198 | Registered: Oct 2013
Dyokemm
Member
Member # 40254
Default  Posted: 4:45 AM, June 26th (Thursday)

She went to a concert and never bothered to inform you she would be gone all evening?

Who did she go with?

If she had any contact with POSOM or any other man I would never even consider R again.

After her A, this is a sign that filing for D immediately and exposing the A and POSOM far and wide should be your next immediate steps.

Stay on the hard 180...if you text her anything it should be a simple message that you are done and filing for D ASAP.

Her concert night escapades (even if there was no A behaviors or actions involved) was her just shitting on your offer to try R.

After these shenanigans, and ASSUMING no adulterous occurred, she needs to come begging for R before you should even consider altering this course of action.


Posts: 58 | Registered: Aug 2013
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 4:56 AM, June 26th (Thursday)

And you have no idea who she went to the concert with ??? I suggest you find out the answer to that one!!!
If you do not take action Onguard, no ones advice can help you.
Assuming the spinning coach is still not banging her because of his girlfriend, she probably now has another boyfriend . But again, if spinning coach had fight or broke up with gf it could have been him she was with.
I hope she can verify with you who she was with . If you get bull shit like it was a gf, that is a lie. If it was that innocent she would have told you where she was going and with who
On Friday you need to bring the D papers home with you from attorney.
And don't go to the party with her

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 5:27 AM, June 26th (Thursday)

What else can I do besides work on me and my kids?

This is a full-time job, friend. And it is the most important thing that you can do right now.

The problem is that you do not have a remorseful wife. You wouldn't be having to lay these demands out, because she would already be working on these...without your insistence.

But, being this is not the case, lay out your demands from your other post, and stick to them. This is not a negotiation process. She will either commit to work on the marriage, or she won't. With commitment comes the terms you described earlier(and yes---it is fucking ridiculous that we have to demand
things such as not screwing other men, abiding by our marital vows, etc.).....and that is that. If she won't comply, then you are left with (2) alternatives---to accept her behavior, or to not accept her behavior.

This is where emotional detachment is critical. It takes time and effort, but lets you see things in a much clearer light. It helps you accept the fact that your marriage way very well be over---but that it is not the end of the world. While life without your wife may not be what you want, you are not doomed to a life of misery.

You have a lot more power than you believe. And the first steps are to enact what you described earlier.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2072 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
nomistakeaboutit
Member
Member # 36857
Default  Posted: 6:00 AM, June 26th (Thursday)

I'm joining this discussion late, but I had a couple of thoughts for you.

Another non-negotiable to consider is that she agrees to start seeing a therapist (IC) immediately. She clearly needs some professional help to get herself sorted out and begin to understand "why" she is behaving so horribly. (Note: She needs to do this as an individual and not together with you in. MC. MC could come later,,but would be wholly unproductive at this point.)

Also, I don't know how you can demand remorse. Herein is the biggest problem. I think your biggest hope here would be that over time she "gets it" and becomes remorseful.

Finally, I'd suggest including that she agree to NO future contact with her AP.

I can see you've turned the corner and are headed for action. Change is 'gonna come, my friend. Good for you.


Me: BH 58.........Her: WW 45
DD: 8..........DS: 5
Married for six years.
DDay: 12-25-11 Divorced: 7-15-12
...................................
"It's like a nightmare within a nightmare, which in and of itself is a nightmare!"

Posts: 958 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: U.S.A.
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 6:15 AM, June 26th (Thursday)

Want to second the suggestion you can’t “demand” remorse.
In fact – IMHO a wayward is incapable of showing true remorse until he/she is along into R. In order to show true remorse you have to understand the scope of the problem.
At first you will be met by regret and remorse, but true remorse… a lot later.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5565 | Registered: Sep 2005
self-rescuer
Member
Member # 35059
Default  Posted: 7:43 AM, June 26th (Thursday)

The concert/bender last night was bad – very bad.

It must serve as a sign that you will not be able to reason with your wife. There will be no sensible conversations between the two of you. As I said before, she has no idea how her behavior is decimating you.

So, the counsel that was clearly and generously offered by the other SI’ers needs to be followed.

Be clear.

Tell her that you will no longer be disrespected in this way and she meets your terms starting NOW or there will be immediate consequences.

But do not engage her in dialog with the hope of gaining clarity. She will spew anything to cover her trail and her butt. She will say cruel things. She will say contradictory things. She is incapable of having a meaningful conversation at this point. Sadly, maybe never.

This is the hardest time. We all realize your agony and each one of us has been there.

You want your old life back. You want your loving wife back. You want to be the devoted husband we all know that you were.

You are clinging to the hope that somehow your situation is different. We all understand.

Seeing the attorney will be empowering. Disengaging will offer some peace and continuing to lean into the support you have here will provide strength and guidance. And, these SI guys who have become your soldiers in arms, heed their advice. Even though they may come from different angles their suggestions are so valuable. I am still close to those SI people who posted on my threads when I was a newbie. This is a support network that you can trust and truly has your best interest at heart. They will see through this entire difficult journey.


BW 53 WXH 56 & still bewildered
D-Day 9-15-11
Divorce 3-13-13

Just trust yourself, then you will know how to live.
~ Goethe


Posts: 506 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: the south
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 8:35 AM, June 26th (Thursday)

She has texted me apologies all day. I have not responded.
Sometimes a screw up like this gives you the leverage right back again.

You could use this to find out if she would agree to all of your conditions right now.

See just how sorry she is.

You have the leverage for this one tiny moment. She knows she screwed up big time this time.

She is actually sorry...possible.

This is the day you need to see just how sorry she is. Will she do everything you need now.

The NC
The staying away from that gym
The entire truth once and for all...etc.

Her screw up could give you this one tiny moment of leverage. Unless her sorry's are phony. You will know when you ask her to abide by your requests and now. Not tomorrow or next week, now, today.


Posts: 4121 | Registered: Jun 2002
annanew
Member
Member # 43693
Default  Posted: 9:44 AM, June 26th (Thursday)


It seems to me that your wife pulls away when someone else is in the picture and runs back when they drop her. Based on her current behavior, she's still in an affair. Also, stop saying to yourself that she pulled away then had an affair, I am sure it was the other way around. Likely had absolutely nothing to do with your bout of depression. Maybe it was with someone else, maybe with the same guy.

If I were you I'd do some serious digging.


Happy single mom to a sweet little girl.

Posts: 67 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: California
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 5:02 PM, June 27th (Friday)

So Onguard,!what have you done and what was her explanation for the little disappearance the other night?

Hope you have done something other than accept it.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Onguard
New Member
Member # 43654
Default  Posted: 7:56 AM, June 28th (Saturday)

Thanks for checking in Badhurt. I was out of town for the past few days and had minimal contact with her. When I got back to town yesterday afternoon I went to play golf. She texted me about how I have been doing the same thing to her that she did on Tuesday night. Like not letting her know when I was returning and what I was doing. I explained to her briefly that I did not betray her trust by having an affair. I did not disappear from the home without a word and refuse to respond to text messages. I'm not the one who has been undecided about trying to R.

As for Tuesday night. She went with some family and a friend to the concert. She said she was not intentionally trying to hurt me but knows her actions were unacceptable. She said that she was in a rebellious stage but that it will stop immediately. I asked her if she has had any contact with her AP and she still says no. She said that if he tried to contact her that she would tell me. Man, I wish there was a way for me to know for sure. There is a software program called Stealth-Genie that you can put on someone's phone. It will then provide you with copies of all text and imessages from that device. imessages are not traceable otherwise. Does anyone have any ideas for how I could verify NC?

She told me that she was very sorry about her behavior and that it will stop. But she did not commit to anything else. I have an appointment with an attorney on Monday. I am going to see what steps I can legally take to separate our assets and protect myself. I told her that I am not going to the party tonight and she is furious. She is accusing me of just trying to manipulate her and force feelings that arent there right now. I told her that was not the case. I told her that I am moving on with my life as a single person because her words and actions have been clear. You do not value me or this relationship. I have plans with my kids and some friends this weekend. I am trying to be strong and move forward.


BH 44
WW 43
Married 19yrs
DDay: 5/27/14

Posts: 18 | Registered: Jun 2014
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 8:11 AM, June 28th (Saturday)

On guard

So she went with a family and friend. Who was the "friend"??
And I suppose some family took their kids to get hammered until 1am I'm the morning. If not, I guess that means she was with the friend, whoever that was .
The explanation. Is unacceptable. You stated it perfectly. You were not the one who cheated so there is no equating anything you do with what she does. She is curious, not remorseful.
You need to go to the lawyer. Hopefully for your sanity you have had enough.
The techies can tell you more about spyware than me. Probably a good idea, especially since you have no idea who the friend was the other night, male or female.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
self-rescuer
Member
Member # 35059
Default  Posted: 12:55 PM, June 28th (Saturday)

Couple of things. You stated that your appointment with your attorney was scheduled for this last Friday but now you're saying Monday. I know things come up in life but please make sure seeing your lawyer is priority #1. It will help you deal with the current mindfuckery you're facing.

Second - she has absolutely NO right to be furious about any decision you make. You're trying to manipulate her?? WTF? She's projecting because she's losing power.

If she was remotely committed to the " never agains" she alludes to, she would have gratefully made excuses to not go to the party and spent the time doing anything that would help mend your heart.


BW 53 WXH 56 & still bewildered
D-Day 9-15-11
Divorce 3-13-13

Just trust yourself, then you will know how to live.
~ Goethe


Posts: 506 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: the south
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 9:47 PM, June 29th (Sunday)

On guard

She accuses you of trying to manipulate and force feelings that are not there right now. Doesn't that tell you something???
For heavens same, she just told you she does not love you in plain words. And her actions show that statement to be totally truthful. You cannot make her want to be with you. Right now you are on trial when she decides. And when she uses your attitude to disappear on you, she will do the same thing when she wants to bang someone else. She has thrown down the marker, meaning if you don't treat her nice and let her do what she wants you will get more of what you got the other night
You are paying the bills for this.
I hope on Monday you give her a nice surprise of an initial filing for divorce. She deserves it
And you still have not said if the "friend" the other night was a male or female. And can she prove it???

[This message edited by Badhurt at 9:48 PM, June 29th (Sunday)]


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Dare2Trust
Member
Member # 21183
Default  Posted: 9:55 PM, July 1st (Tuesday)

On Guard,

What type of family member of "friend" would leave a woman in this condition...and NOT make sure she got into the house, SAFELY...before they simply drove off and left her?
This makes no sense to me!
Family and Friends simply do not behave this way.

Last night she left home at around 5pm without saying a word to me or the kids. At 9pm I texted her to see if she had fed the dog. She replied 2 hours later. At midnight she still was not home. At 3am I found her passed out in the back seat of my car in the garage and totally hammered. Evidently she had gone to a concert and gotten dropped off at 1am but could not get into the house.

Have you talked to the FAMILY she says she attended this concert with to VERIFY her STORY?


Me BS 59
WH 58
Married 19 years
D-Day Nov 3, 2005
Child: Adopted Daughter 21 College Student now

I can understand being alone; but I hate being with someone and feeling lonely.


Posts: 6136 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Texas
damaged71
Member
Member # 36004
Default  Posted: 7:17 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

Onguard...

I read your story and felt compelled to respond. I know what you are going through. I had a WW that wasn't real sure what she wanted to do. She caused me untold misery by stringing me along and tossing be tidbits that gave me hope. I tried to "nice" her back for a while.

I know what your future looks like.

On a long enough timeline you WILL get tired of this. Once that happens you will wake up one day and realize that NO ONE is worth the pain you have gone through. This will happen, mark my word. You will get tired of it someday.

The only difference is how much pain you endure before you get there.

For me I realized after she had taken a trip many states away to go home for a week how nice it was not dealing with her bullshit while she was away. I realized then, "Hey this being alone thing is kind of nice". After I had that realization I also realized that I was financing my own misery. When my wife got home I handed her a list of minimum requirements I would accept from my wife. I spelled everything out. I told her "you can do as you wish when you wish but if you violate any of my requests you are CHOOSING to be divorced". I told her that once it was in motion it was irrevocable. I would not ever turn back.

She balked at the list at first. I told her "everything in there is what a husband should expect from a respectful wife and nothing more. I only request the same respect that I freely give you.

I realized that she wasn't the prize, I was. What I had to offer was a good guy, great career, lots of income, family man and faithful. What she had to offer me was a cheating wife that disrespected me and caused me pain. Don't think for a second any of the OM are going to support her like you do. Even she isn't dumb enough to believe they are. She NEEDS you to continue her lifestyle. You are the one that makes it possible.

When you get to the point that I'm talking about, you are going to do what everyone is telling you to do anyway. You are going to say "F*&K This, she isn't worth it". At this point you will gladly file for divorce and dread every moment you are in the same room with her.

You said something very wise earlier. You said something like "maybe we aren't special and like everyone else". This is correct. If you will notice everyone has given you the exact same advice. WE ALL WENT THROUGH EXACTLY WHAT YOU HAVE. Being nice didn't work for us either. This is your first time going through this. You don't know how this ends. We have gone through it and witnessed it on here over and over and over. We KNOW how this ends. Imagine a horror movie. How many times do you need to see it to know where the bad guy is hiding and what he is going to do?

We are screaming at you telling you the bad guy is behind the door. We know he is there, we have seen this before. He is going to hurt you badly. We are giving you the instructions that will save you, because we have seen this "movie" many times.

You know what keeps me up at night? It isn't the fact that my wife cheated. It's the fact I was in complete control of stopping the pain she was causing me. I look back and wish I would have filed on D-day. I would have been SO much better off.

I'll end with this. The clock is ticking on your relationship. Your wife has to become remorseful and understanding before you absolutely hate her. Once you hate her, that's it. If you get to the point of hate before she wakes up, it's too late. This is already hard enough to get over anyway. If there is any hope of saving your relationship YOU have to wake her up ASAP. Is being nice going to do that?


I didn't know there was this much emotional pain in the universe!
Me 42
Her 44
D-day 5.18.12
Currently in R

Posts: 350 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: damaged71
crisp
Member
Member # 34236
Default  Posted: 7:27 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

Very compelling testimony from Damaged71.


Endeavor to persevere. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csEzTwKemwY

Posts: 410 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: NE US
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 7:33 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

Passed out in the car is like college/Animal House days. Adults don't do that. Beware.

Great post from Damaged71. Read and heed. It may save you a whole lot of aggravation and pain.


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
Onguard
New Member
Member # 43654
Default  Posted: 1:08 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)

Thanks for your insights damaged71. My situation feels hopeless. I'm dealing with depression which has weakened me in addition to the trauma of this affair and her loss of feelings for me. I do realize that being nice is not going to work. I have been like a sad puppy dog since dday. My ww is convinced that our marriage was terminally ill prior to her affair. So she is spending all of her time rationalizing her actions instead of taking ownership and showing remorse. Everyone here is telling me that I must take action and respond with strength. But my fear of losing her permanently, and life as I have known it for a long time, is paralyzing me. I am in this holding pattern hoping that my emotions will settle down and I will be able to function and think better.

If I demand that she commit to R with a list of requirements right now then it is virtually certain that she will refuse. So I will be forced to enforce her choice and move forward with ending the M. This is the last thing she expects me to do, which is why it MIGHT wake her up. But not likely. If I go this way I need to be ready to end it. And right now, as much as I wish I was ready, I'm not.

My other option is to try and be patient. To focus on myself and do my best to do the 180. If I can get stronger, overcome my depression and let her see me living my life and being happy without her. Maybe then her feelings for me will come back. If her feelings come back then maybe she will wake up and feel sincere remorse.

Right now I am hurting and missing her. I don't want to lose my family and our life. I appreciate everyone taking the time to try and knock some sense into me. I hope that I can find the courage to act.


BH 44
WW 43
Married 19yrs
DDay: 5/27/14

Posts: 18 | Registered: Jun 2014
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 1:17 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)

OK but was the friend she was out until 1AM with a male or female or wont she tell you.

Your tolerance for pain is your business and only you can get yourself out of this.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 1:27 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)

Oh, my friend, sooner or later you will act. Once you've had enough of your current situation. You could remain as you are in misery, or you could do a self lobotomy to forget everything that's happened, or you can decide that separation is needed where the WS wholly lacks remorse without which R is impossible. Your choice.

But the sooner you decide, the less pain will be inflicted on you.
And remember you can't control what she does, you can only control what you do.


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
FrmrBH80124
Member
Member # 42967
Default  Posted: 1:53 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)

Onguard,

It has been repeated many times on SI but sometime in order to save the marriage you have to be willing to lose it. I will tell you the greatest relief that I felt was when I filed and ended the damn insanity.

Filing does not mean you will divorce. It tells your WW that you are done dealing with this bullshit. Either she commits or you are done.

Damaged is correct, when you've had enough you will take action. Take action before it's too late.

Wishing you the best!

[This message edited by FrmrBH80124 at 1:53 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)]


ME - BH 45
Her - XWS 30
D - April 2010 - never looked back and good riddance.
Happily remarried!

Though much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days
moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are


Posts: 181 | Registered: Apr 2014
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 9:22 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)

On guard

Is she refusing to tell you who she was with when she was out until 1 or 3 am or are you afraid to ask. If she was with another man and you allow that our of fear you are going to wind up in the hospital or worse by the time she gets do e with you.
Until you get over the paralysis she will continue to treat you like this . Why should she change . You are dying inside, she is doing what she wants, band you are deciding to take it.
If she believes your marriage is dead , you can take it to the bank there will be more cheating. Hiding and being submissive and terrified will not help you because there are no consequences for her.
When you absorb enough pain or get very sick from the emotional strain you will come out of it.
So I'll just ask for the third time. Was she out with another man the other night drinking , don't you know , or are you too worried to want to know?


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
sohowamI
Member
Member # 36671
Default  Posted: 6:21 AM, July 4th (Friday)

Onguard: How are you dealing with your depression? Are you taking medication? Talking to a counsellor? You know you can't use your depression as a scapegoat to inertia. It will only make it worse. I know. I suffer from the black dog of depression and had a breakdown following my discoveries of my WS's multiple affairs. However, I stuck my feet in bloody hobnailed boots and read him the riot act. There was NO WAY that he was going to get away with anything else again! He was remorseful and desperate to try anything to save our marriage. Your WW is NOT there, so there's no hope - for the time being.

What I am saying is this: deal with your depression but don't use it as a reason NOT to deal with your WW and your marriage. When you decide to act with strength it will, believe it or not, lift sufficiently to allow you to see what's in front of you.


WS had two LTAs of 10 years and 12 years; further 8/9 affairs; EAs, 2 OC. Looks horrific but he is fully immersed in trying to find the 'broken.' It's on-going and painful. If there's a blue sky and sunshine, then it's a good day.

Posts: 168 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: UK
Onguard
New Member
Member # 43654
Default  Posted: 9:43 AM, July 4th (Friday)

Thanks Badhurt as well as all of you taking the time to try and help. The friend, believe it or not, was her brothers AP. Yes, that's right, her brother has been in a long term relationship with someone (but not married) and he is having an affair. You can't make this stuff up. So, the story I was told is that 4 people went to the concert. My ww, her mom, her brother and his ap. But again, how could I ever really know? Further, does it even matter at this point? The facts of the case that I already know are about as bad as it gets unfortunately.

WW had an affair for 9 months.
WW abandoned me during this when I needed her more than any other time in my life.
WW says that she was already checked out of the M when my depression hit.
WW did not end the affair and did not want it to end. Says there has been NC and has pledged to honor that.
WW did confess voluntarily and said it was her intent to work on our relationship. (some credit for this)
WW says she is no longer in love with me but hopes and wants those feelings to come back.
WW says her biggest mistake was falling for someone who was already committed to someone else. Wow.
WW is still in love with her AP. Hopes it is an addiction and not a deeper love. Also this could be part of why she has no feelings for me right now.


BH 44
WW 43
Married 19yrs
DDay: 5/27/14

Posts: 18 | Registered: Jun 2014
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, July 4th (Friday)

Onguard,

She is continuing to go to this spin class hoping this guy will change his mind and want to bang her again. She has NOT agreed to NC and her love for you is not going to come back certainly as long as she goes every day to parade in front of the OM.

There is absolutely nothing in what you have just posted to give anyone a reason to think that she is anywhere close to coming out of this fog. Right now, the only impact on her life is your discussions with her. other than that, she sleeps in your house, she spends you money,she goes to the gym to see OM, and last week probably got a lot of positive reinforcement of how great affairs can be are from her "friend".

Remember, the OM is not married, can split with his GF at any time, and they will not send you a telegram announcing that. If that happens or if he wants it to happen, your wife will jump right back into bed with him.She has practically come right out and told you that.

The only thing that has any chance of knocking her out of this is for her life to change and change dramatically.

it still has not sunk in that you really do not have any choices here. You either suck it up, make nice, and hope she does not fuck him or someone else again, or you do something that yes does involve risk but it at least an attempt to save your health and mental well being.

Only you can decide that, but with her attitude you are simply not going to nice her out of this.
you are sitting on a time bomb with her visiting him every day while you are work supporting her.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Onguard
New Member
Member # 43654
Default  Posted: 7:55 PM, July 5th (Saturday)

Well, I am here to report that you have all been right. Not just a little right, but dead right. Unfortunately, today is my dday 2. Last night my ww got drunk again and opened up to my son's girlfriend with some additional details about the A. They had sex on many occasions, not just twice. They had sex in my house, not just his. If he contacts her and wants to be together she would leave me and our kids to do that. The sex that they had was the most exciting she has ever experienced. And the real way the OW discovered the affair was not by seeing texts on his phone. She saw my ww leaving his house.

I confronted my ww. I asked her if she fucked him in our house. The look on her face said it all. At first she said that he was in our home. I asked her again if she fucked him in our house and she said yes, and it was amazing and I will fuck him wherever I want! She then confirmed all of the other details as well. I asked her why she continued to lie to me. "You knew 98% of the facts, the other stuff was irrelevant". If it was irrelevant then you would not have hidden it.

Thank you to everyone who has posted in an attempt to help me. My situation is clearly beyond recovery and it's time for me to move forward. My ww has left the home to stay with her parents. She told me that she wants to find a place for herself and our daughter. I told her that she is free to stay but she wants to leave.

This pain is so intense. 30 years, since we were kids, so many memories, 2 beautiful kids, a home, a life. On May 26th I thought we were a marriage on the rocks. On May 27th I thought we were down but not out. On July 5th I know the end has come. We never had a serious talk about our relationship or that she was extremely unhappy. I wish to god I could turn back the clock 1 year. But that is impossible. I am also wishing for god to take my love for her and erase it. I can't believe this is it.


BH 44
WW 43
Married 19yrs
DDay: 5/27/14

Posts: 18 | Registered: Jun 2014
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 8:13 PM, July 5th (Saturday)

That feeling of love is for who she used to be. Not the cheating, cruel whore she has become. Your feeling, like an old memory, will subside over time. And you will get on with your life.

Those of us who seemed harsh were really trying to wake you up to what the truth proved to be. She's long gone from your M, and you were the supplier of her lifestyle.

It will be hard. But Monday, no later, cancel joint credit cards, remove 1/2 of money from all joint accounts and put it in an account in your name. Tell the bank there is a divorce in the works.
They have heard it before and will hear it again.

Who owns her car? If hers, tell her to get her own insurance as you are cancelling it on that car if its a joint policy you pay for. (Ask lawyer first).

See a lawyer asap and file a divorce case.

Once WW finds out that neither OM nor her parents who must not be young any more cannot support her in the style she likes, the shit will hit the fan. Imagine if the spinning club membership was cancelled for nonpayment. OM would have a new crop of victims present without WW's interference. He probably cannot help support her, and it is possible his choice is gf instead of WW. That will dawn on WW sooner or later.

These steps are not for cruelty or revenge They are to protect you from the valkyrie / harpie she will become when she knows she's alone, getting divorced, and her nice and comfy life is over.

You must do the HARD 180 with her. Discuss kid issues and financial issues only. Otherwise, whatever she says is of no interest to you. Repeat after me: "Im sorry you feel that way, but that's how things have worked out".

And be careful of the sudden reversal. Unless her mother is equally nuts, mom will be telling her repeatedly she did the wrong thing and she should try to straighten it out. And since she's under mom's roof again, she can hardly help but revert to daughter role and listen to mom. Mom and dad are not your friends, don't let WW use them as go-betweens. WW can't tell mom that fucking OM was the best thing that ever happened to her, so even mom will get TT.

Oh what a tangled web we weave.



Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 8:21 PM, July 5th (Saturday)

She told me that she wants to find a place for herself and our daughter.
There are lawyers on here. But I am not so sure she can just take the daughter. But others know better than I do.

Just stay strong and realize she has changed into something else. Seems drinking is an issue and well as FOO possibly.


Posts: 4121 | Registered: Jun 2002
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 9:44 PM, July 5th (Saturday)

Onguard

Sorry to hear this news. I urge you to now stay on here and let the people on her help you get through this. There are many men and women who have been in your shoes.
Please get to your attorney first thing Monday and get the proper advice for your state.
The second thing I would do is call the gym and see if you can get his ass fired.
Your wife will get some financial help for you but her ass will now be going back to work. And when reality hits she is not going to be a happy camper with her life.
Her level of disrespect has gone beyond the level of where you should be playing nice .
Try to take care of your health. See your physician , and get this person that has become a true monster out of your life. You are not an old man. It will get better and you will survive .


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
self-rescuer
Member
Member # 35059
Default  Posted: 9:49 PM, July 5th (Saturday)

I am so sorry for your suffering. Please know we all understand that your heart is broken.

So sadly, there is always a lowest possible point that sets our trajectory for healing. You are there.

Unfortunately, you must push past this pain and prepare for the next arduous process. My suggestion is to post on the separation/divorce forum. Introduce yourself and lean into the support you'll find there. Honestly, the love and counsel and INFORMATION you'll find there will keep you sane.

Everyone who has posted on this thread hoped for a different outcome from you, even as we cautioned and counseled you. We understand your sorrow and the gravity of your loss. But we also see your strength and value and know that soon you too will again know your worth and power.


BW 53 WXH 56 & still bewildered
D-Day 9-15-11
Divorce 3-13-13

Just trust yourself, then you will know how to live.
~ Goethe


Posts: 506 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: the south
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 6:26 AM, July 7th (Monday)

Onguard

Now is not the time to leave the forum. There are people here that can help you /
You need to protect your health as best as you can. Many of the men and women who will respond to you have been in your shoes. I know right now that does not make you feel better, but when you feel up to it come back to the board.

No one here is happy that we were right so do not feel ashamed about that. You were under a lot of stress and us sitting here listening to the facts were just looking at what was happening from a non involved perspective, which is easier to see clearly in.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, July 7th (Monday)

Stick around. Read the Divorce sub forum if you're headed there soon. General is, well, general with a lot of useful advice in a variety of situations.

Seeing lawyer. My advice

Outline the issues you need to discuss

Child Custody
Child Support
Spousal Support
Property Division
Assets and debts (approx good enough now)
Income situation
Visitation/Shared Custody
Rights to remain in home
Selling home
How long would court stick you with spousal support
Fees and costs
Timeline for divorce contested and uncontested
Anything else you can think of.

Lawyer visit is for legal advice, not marriage counseling. We are no good at marriage counseling. If counseling sought, ask for a referral to IC. WW in no shape for you to waste time and money on MC when she's still deep in the A mentality.


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, July 7th (Monday)

Oh, 180 for own mental health. She's become evil. Why tell son's gf and not you? Evil

[This message edited by Schadenfreude at 3:14 PM, July 7th (Monday)]


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
Onguard
New Member
Member # 43654
Default  Posted: 5:08 PM, July 7th (Monday)

Schadenfreude, thanks for the detailed outline. I plan on interviewing a couple of additional attorneys. The one I met with last week didnt impress me. I have a lot to lose financially so it's important that I get the right team together. I opened a new bank account today and all future deposits will be directed to this account. I am changing beneficiaries on my life insurance and I have contacted my estate planning attorney to make some changes to my trust and healthcare poa.

You are correct as well that she is still deep in the fog. Her behavior has changed so drastically over the past 6 months that it is hard to believe. She was a woman with integrity, intelligence and class. Now she has become this selfish party girl.

I am moving forward with ending the M and starting a new life.


BH 44
WW 43
Married 19yrs
DDay: 5/27/14

Posts: 18 | Registered: Jun 2014
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 5:43 PM, July 7th (Monday)

Onguard

Take your time and get it right. At some point she will realize that she has traded her secure life for a spinning instructor, and she will have less time to spin when she has to get a job.
She has done you a favor by getting drunk and running her mouth. Eventually you will be glad she did that and saved you all the detective work and stress.
It will get better


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 6:09 PM, July 7th (Monday)

Now she has become this selfish party girl.
Many times the WS will start to act just like the AP.

The likes and dislikes changing to reflect the AP, but then it gets worse when they actually start acting like the AP.

No always but sometimes.

Sounds like you are getting your ducks in a row.


Posts: 4121 | Registered: Jun 2002
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 8:40 PM, July 7th (Monday)

You desperately need to gather some courage, get back on your feet and fight your new sworn enemy - your wife.
She told me that she wants to find a place for herself and our daughter.

Tell her to fuck off and find a place of her own without your daughter; she stays in the marital home.
You get the message - turn mean and angry. Your wife is going to do everything to screw you out of all marital possessions, including your daughter. Fight her. The marriage is over and you need to stop being Mr. Nice guy. Time for war.

She has no love or respect for you and although I understand you are shell-shocked, you need to defend yourself against your selfish WW.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 9:12 AM, July 8th (Tuesday)

OK now has this right. It is fight time, not nice time or reconciliation hope time. Get to a lawyer's office now, not later. Start financial separation now. You don't want her running up credit card debt you'll be stuck with. Custody issue is paramount.
Only a local lawyer can tell you about how your local courts handle custody issues. Generally, though, fault isn't an issue unless other spouse has abandoned the family.

I cannot stress enough that prompt action will save you difficulty down the road. Its hard enough to "win" the game and harder if you're playing catch up ball from the get go.


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 10:45 AM, July 8th (Tuesday)

Although I disagree on the need to be mean and nasty to your wife then I totally 100% support the get tough stance.
I have said this quite often here on SI: Divorce is one of the most misunderstood concepts thrown about here on SI. Too many posters seem to think it’s an alternative form of a relationship with the spouse when in fact it’s the TERMINATION of a relationship and the quest to find the least interaction necessary to become efficient co-parents.
Being amicable is a plus but not a requirement.

Don’t agree? Well… chances are you have divorced friends. How much do they associate with their exes? If it wasn’t for the kids… well… you basically wouldn’t have any need whatsoever to interact with your WW after a few months. Fact is – if you divorce – if you do your efficient personal recovery then you will at most feel indifferent to your wife in 24 months post-divorce. Not anger, not regret… just indifferent.

To me it sounds as if your WW is going through some traumatic out-of-control phase. She’s losing control of the situation. She thought she could control the affair, the recovery, her actions after the affair, your reactions… and it isn’t happening. She’s realizing that she’s done wrong and she’s justifying it any way she can. That’s why the sex was so good – because had it been bad she would have risked everything for bad sex. That’s why you are such a drag – because if you really were the decent man you are she would have risked everything for a spinning instructor. So IMHO turning into a mean petty man during the divorce… That’s playing into her perceived image of WHY she HAD to have the affair.

Try to take a businesslike approach to what you are dealing with. Try as you can to detach the emotions from reality – what you want from what you get. I know this extremely hard. After all we ARE talking about a marriage, a bond that basically is based on emotions. But cold cruel fact is that divorce is basically the business process of dividing assets and debts and commitments accumulated through a nearly 20 year marriage. The emotional decision to divorce… that’s already there.

Remember – Whether you want to divorce or not is a non-issue. You can want to reconcile as much as you want but if your wife isn’t onboard… that’s the proverbial one hand trying to clap. The situation you are dealing with is the situation handed out to you. Deal with it that way. It’s like waking up to your house on fire. Moaning in bed and wishing it wasn’t your house. Worrying about water damage or the firemen’s boots ruining the hardwood floor won’t get you anywhere. It’s action, action, action.

So…
Tell your wife that she’s totally free to find a place of her own but that she has to keep in mind the finances.
Tell your wife that while custody issues haven’t been dealt with then your children’s legal residence will remain at their present location. If she gets her own place they can visit and even stay over – but their residence will remain unchanged while this process goes through.

Other than that then really don’t talk too much finances with her or in fact the divorce. If she initiates talk about divorce then simply state that you are too emotionally attached to the marriage so you place all the issues into the hands of your attorney.

AVOID arguments. I’m not telling you to pucker up and take everything or anything she says but basically ANY issue she has about the marriage can be answered with some form of:

“I’m sorry you feel that way. I don’t necessarily agree. If we had plans to work on the marriage then this is something we would need to address. But since you have decided to remain in infidelity and we are divorcing then there really is no need nor any profit for either of us to discuss this”.

Any issue on the divorce or division of assets:

“I am too emotionally attached to this marriage to be capable of addressing this issue. There are processes to deal with divorce and our divorce will go through that process. My attorney will handle all the issues on my behalf”.

And then you walk away. Other than the kids agenda you two really have nothing to talk about.

I encourage you to be realistic. Chances are that by law she’s entitled to more than you think or wish. Chances are that she thinks she’s getting less than half. For some reason even if there is a totally fair 50/50 division then having half of the marital assets seems less than owning half of the total assets.

I’m also going to encourage you to be truthful. If asked then you are divorcing because she had an affair. Don’t be afraid of exposing it. I still think you should phone the gym and complain to the management.

Through all this you need to keep a grim but determined demeanor. Don’t be moody, don’t pout. Live as full and active life as you can. Rather than sit in front of TV with her being silent in the corner then leave the room and do something positive and active; wax the car, paint the foyer, clean the gutters… Be active and refuse to allow her actions and behaviors control your family any longer.


Remember… there really isn’t any way you can revenge her affair. It’s not about getting even. It’s all about surviving infidelity and getting on the correct path of healing and recovery as soon as possible. You can be firm, focused and determined in your dealings with WW without being rude or abusive.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5565 | Registered: Sep 2005
Onguard
New Member
Member # 43654
Default  Posted: 11:52 AM, July 17th (Thursday)

It's been a while since I posted so I wanted to provide an update. We have had very little interaction although we are still living in the same house. I have decided that I will be moving out. There are 2 primary reasons for that. First, my 13 year old daughter. Since I have to travel for business I cannot be there for her full time. It would be a lot more shocking to her to have to leave our home. Second, I don't want to stay in this house knowing that she and her ap met here on at least 2 occasions. In fact, we will be putting the house up for sale asap.

My ww wants a trial separation. I am moving forward with D but she does not know that. I am trying to agree with anything she says and do the 180. It makes me sick that part of me still hopes that she will have an awakening and realize how much she is throwing away. It makes me literally, physically ill that I still care. WTF!? She made a deliberate decision to have a relationship with some spinning instructor. She brought him into our home more than once. She had the ability to act like nothing happened when I returned home. What kind of person has the capacity to do that?? I need to realize that the woman I loved is gone and that this woman is my mortal enemy. I have to keep reminding myself of that.

That being said, I am trying to approach the D in the most business like fashion. The last thing I want is a long, expensive battle. I am hoping for the best but preparing for the worst. Also, I really think that she is still in contact with him. She is moody and very guarded about her phone and computer. She stated again the other day that her feelings for me are not there and she doesnt think they will ever come back. I have revoked her credit cards that were attached to mine. I have opened my own bank accounts. My son and I are looking for a bachelor pad. And it all sucks. I hate every minute of it but I am forcing myself to get tough. She wants a life without me. She gave another man her love when I was going through a horrible depression. She brought that dick face into my home. She bragged about it to my son's gf. Is this a woman I want to be with? Hell no. I miss the image of who she was but I despise the cold hearted ww she has become.


BH 44
WW 43
Married 19yrs
DDay: 5/27/14

Posts: 18 | Registered: Jun 2014
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 3:59 PM, July 17th (Thursday)

Ontrack,

I’ve sometimes been told I’m too pro-reconciliation. Personally I think most all situations are recoverable but I don’t see a need to save every situation. If anything then I would rather say I’m a realist: if your wife isn’t willing to reconcile on the correct grounds then R simply isn’t feasible. Plus it sounds like you are OK with your decision.

Great attitude for the divorce. Detach the emotions and think in numbers. Use the time to get a really good grasp of your situation. Keep in mind that the division of assets and debt isn’t so that you get one car, she gets one, you get one plasma TV and she gets the other. It’s more of a calculation of assets and debts and dividing the result in a fair way between you two.
The family house? Maybe you can calculate that accepting less than half its value is OK if your WW leaves your pension to you. If she wants part of the pension then calculate its present value and use that amount as the monetary value you are negotiating with. Try to decide what you want out of the divorce? What is half? What is fair? Where are you willing to compromise and what is your bottom line?

Having all this info and having a clear picture will save you immense money and time in the process.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5565 | Registered: Sep 2005
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 9:42 AM, July 18th (Friday)

We have had very little interaction although we are still living in the same house. I have decided that I will be moving out. There are 2 primary reasons for that. First, my 13 year old daughter. Since I have to travel for business I cannot be there for her full time. It would be a lot more shocking to her to have to leave our home. Second, I don't want to stay in this house knowing that she and her ap met here on at least 2 occasions. In fact, we will be putting the house up for sale asap.

Rethink this strategy if you can. I understand that being away for work makes it difficult to have someone with your daughter, but if your 20yr old son can help out in some way with supervision of her then perhaps you do not need your WW to watch her. Yes, I get that your DD13 might not cope with the big change, but considering that her mother is likely to act like "girls gone wild" I don't think DS13's situation is really any better for staying in the house to be witness to that kind of example.

In fact, why can't your WW be the one to move out of the house? Tell her that her getting an apartment would be more suited for her to get "space", figure out if her feelings for you will return, and work things out away from being constantly "trapped" in the family household. Yes, I know it's bullshit and she will just use the opportunity to party it up and date other men. However, if you are decided on going forward with the D process, I can tell you that selling your house is a hell of a lot easier if you control the property and the assets within as opposed to your WW doing so. She could potentially sabotage any contract deals by acting like a squatter while she still claims to figure out her feelings for you (essentially prolongs cake-eating) and keeps you in limbo. Hey, your paying for her lifestyle so she'll fight to keep it. There are stories here of WS screwing up home sales.

Your lucky to have an awesome son willing to help and support you through this ordeal. Let him help you. Don't be affraid to ask him for help. You both can strategize, have a plan, and your daughter will very likely buy in for the effort. As scary as change like divorce brings, it is the parent who has a clear direction and a plan for the future and who is an emotional rock for love and support for which the kids will turn to and follow.

Good job on getting your ducks in a row so far.

It makes me sick that part of me still hopes that she will have an awakening and realize how much she is throwing away. It makes me literally, physically ill that I still care. WTF!? She made a deliberate decision to have a relationship with some spinning instructor. She brought him into our home more than once. She had the ability to act like nothing happened when I returned home. What kind of person has the capacity to do that?? I need to realize that the woman I loved is gone and that this woman is my mortal enemy. I have to keep reminding myself of that.

If she really is going through midlife crisis (MLC) expect to wait anywhere from 2 to 7 yrs of her extracting her cranium from her rectum, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it but just get out of the way. Google MLC support forums and read through their stories. Some of these just break your heart for what the spouses of MLC candidates go through. It's brutal and abusive. Yes, that woman you once knew is truly gone. The worst in her has come out. The real question is once she is done with MLC will she remain this aweful selfish person or actually change for the better. You can either wait or not wait around to find out. All I can tell you is for the time being, don't deny yourself the life that YOU deserve, the happy father that your kids deserve to be with.

[This message edited by Jduff at 4:13 PM, July 18th (Friday)]


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 559 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, July 18th (Friday)

Onguard,

J Duff has given you the right advice. You wife cheated, lied to you, and totally disrespected you in every way possible. if for no other reason than to show her the consequences, I would not agree to let her have the house as her new sex romp location. if i had to eat cereal for dinner every night, I would hire people to help with 13 year old. You son i think was urging you do get rid of her so maybe she can help.

You need to inflict maximum damage to her. You i hope will have your attorney make it impossible for her to still not have to work at all and just enjoy going to spinning class and looking for guys to bang.

You need to try (I know it is hard) to look at the glass as still half full. If she had not been so stupid as to get drunk and spill all the beans you might have still been back where you were when you were not able to act on everyone's advice,.

I don't know how there can be any talk of R, or MC with this woman. She needs to understand how it will be without you to make her life comfy. The more pain she feels the quicker her head will get out of her ass.

There are a bunch of stories on here now about women your wife's age trading everything for a fuck buddy younger than them. Unfortunately, too many of them are getting away with it because the guys are proving to be the weaker sex as far as moving on with their lives.

Do what you need to do, but do nothing counting on her to restore your marriage .


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
atreides
Member
Member # 44180
Default  Posted: 11:47 AM, July 23rd (Wednesday)

Onguard, how is it going? Any updates?

Posts: 150 | Registered: Jul 2014
Onguard
New Member
Member # 43654
Default  Posted: 12:03 PM, July 27th (Sunday)

I am in pain but I am determined to do what must be done. I have made a list of ALL the things she has done to me over the past 7 months to keep me focused. You simply cannot do that to someone you love or care about. I have also kept a list of the 180 as well as some other reminders of how I should think and act. The wife who I loved and miss is gone. I must accept the current situation and let go of the past. I wish I would have listened to all of you right away. Instead, I showed my pain, insecurity and weakness, which caused her to lose even more respect for me. It also caused me to lose respect for myself. That has come to an end though.

I have told her that she needs to move out. I said, "You destroyed our relationship, you are not willing to do anything to try and repair it and you are the one who is confused." This is our marital home and since your actions show that you do not want this marriage you should leave. She has agreed and is looking for a place to live.

We don't communicate often but when we do it is usually full of anger and resentment. Divorce is not what I want but living with the woman she has become is worse. She made her decisions and now I really have no choice but to give her what she wants which is her freedom. My attorney was on vacation for 10 days so I have not made any additional progress. I am hoping that we can achieve an amicable dissolution of the marriage but my guess is that she is going to continue her campaign of insanity.

I am learning to feel the pain but not show it. I am spending my leisure time with my kids, working out and playing golf. I still fight off feelings of deep sadness when I see families and couples living the way we used to live. I get very jealous but I have to remind myself that things change and that this too shall pass. I made mistakes as a husband and I wish I could go back and be more attentive and "date" her more often. I was not aware of her unhappiness until it was too late. But that is still no excuse for what she did. She could have chosen many other ways to let me know how much she was hurting. I have told my friends who are still married to learn from my experience. If you love your wife, your family, your life and you want to stay married then do everything you can to show her. I don't know if I will ever love another woman the way I loved my wife but I know that I will be a better partner to her.



BH 44
WW 43
Married 19yrs
DDay: 5/27/14

Posts: 18 | Registered: Jun 2014
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 2:23 PM, July 27th (Sunday)

Onguard

Very happy to hear that you have made the decision to kick her ass out of the home. You worked for it, paid for it, and she became the weasel that she is. I hope your attorney is able to fix the divorce agreement that will force her ass to work instead of looking for fuck buddies during the day.
Regardless, you deserve better . It will hurt for a while but that was a great idea you had about keeping the list of all the horrible things she did to you to make sure you stay angry and focused on not giving in to her one inch.
This horrible experience has made you wiser and I hope you do continue to post and stay on this forum.
Every day others arrive just where you were and your knowledge and experience can help others.
Doing that will also help you feel better.
Stay strong and kick her to the curb

[This message edited by Badhurt at 2:25 PM, July 27th (Sunday)]


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
atreides
Member
Member # 44180
Default  Posted: 6:44 PM, July 27th (Sunday)

Thanks for the update Ongaurd. I am sorry for your pain and loss of love and family as you described.

One thing i can only say, is that you still in part blame yourself which has nothing to do with her infidelity. Happy marriages have infidelity, she just chose to re-write or omit what she wants from your marriage to justify her actions. You could have been the best husband and it not change a thing.

Keep thinking good thoughts, especially about yourself.


Posts: 150 | Registered: Jul 2014
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 9:16 PM, July 27th (Sunday)

Onguard

As time passes by you slowly realize that while you may be responsible for some issues in your marriage that your wife could have come to you and communicated her unhappiness.

She did not.

And all the venom that comes out of each of you now does not help the situation.

Your wife has become a very selfish woman. She has put herself above your marriage and her children.

She is in the "ME" stage. And there is nothing you can do to change that.

But there are a few things you can do for yourself and your kids.

You be the Man. Make those tough decisions no matter how painful.

You be the parent. Show your children and STBX that no matter how horrible her actions you will guide your family to a better place. You will not allow her Affair or your depression to stop your family from being happy again.

You choose happiness over bitterness. You make a conscious decision to be happy. To be friendly. To play golf with friends or be social by making a few new friends (man or woman) each week.

I swear this last one may sound silly but you will be surprised how your outlook onlife changes when you surround yourself with happy family and your happiness flows to them as well.

Your STBXW will wonder where that man has been for the past year or two.

I understand depression. I was in downtown NYC on 911. I lost some of my good friends and customers that day.

I pray for them daily and swore I would not let that tragedy depress me anymore. It took years.

You can do it too!

HM


Posts: 902 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 9:42 PM, July 27th (Sunday)

I also forget to say this Onguard.

Never settle. Never settle for being her Plan B.

She got used. She just cannot come to terms with it yet. What young stud who can get any young girl in his gym is going to get serious and commit to a relationship with a 40 something woman.

Not gonna happen.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The sex was amazing. How the hell would she know. She only had sex with two or a few in her entire life.

Stop taking her crapola on the chin.

Replace her.

With someone nicer, prettier, honest and maybe even younger.

And never settle for being a friend with her.

Unless she deserves it.

And that could take years.

HM


Posts: 902 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
Onguard
New Member
Member # 43654
Default  Posted: 9:15 AM, July 31st (Thursday)

I appreciate all of you who have continued to follow my situation and taken the time to provide me with your support and advice. I went back and read through this entire thread and it's hitting home more and more. There have been some developments that I wanted to share and get some feedback about.

She left a legal pad on her bed the other day and I looked at it. I know, snooping is a bad idea but I did it anyway. What I saw was very painful. She had notes preparing for her IC session where she was literally comparing me to her ap. It was titled "define your losses". What would you lose if you lost this man? There were 3 items under my name. Financial security, comfort zone and family. (which is basically zero for ME.) There were 6 for him: Passion, excitement, common interests, the way he made me feel, intensity, looks. She also had written the parts of each of us that cause her pain and anger. He had more there as well but his were all about him being a player, untrustworthy and hurting her by dumping her. Other than looks, nothing I read was a surprise but seeing it on paper, in my waw handwriting, was like a dagger in the eye.

I calmly asked her to talk for a minute. I told her that she needed to leave the house asap. I know that you are still in love with your ap and I will not allow you to use me and our home as your waiting room any longer. I am moving forward with ending the marriage and you need to get out of this house. She tried to deny it but I told her that I know for a fact that she wants him and would be with him in a second if he contacted her.

The next day she once again showed her true colors. We had agreed that we would tell our 13 year old daughter together when we both felt the time was right. But yesterday she decided that the time was right for her to have that talk one on one. When I got home she told me that she had spoken to our daughter and it upset her very much. No shit sherlock! I went up to her room and knocked on the door. When I opened it she threw her arms around me and cried. "Why is this happening to our family?" Which turned me into a mess. I told her that everything is going to be ok. We don't have any final answers yet but that we both love her more than ever. That this was her house and she can be here anytime she wants.

My stbx is supposedly looking for a place to live today. I would still prefer that my M somehow work out but I am determined to keep moving forward on my own. I am staying away from her but being positive and upbeat are still a challenge. I still have not found an attorney that I am confident about. I have 2 interviews set up though.

Has anyone ever heard of a situation like mine that did not end in D? I know it's real and I am accepting it, but I don't like it.


BH 44
WW 43
Married 19yrs
DDay: 5/27/14

Posts: 18 | Registered: Jun 2014
atreides
Member
Member # 44180
Default  Posted: 9:29 AM, July 31st (Thursday)

Yes i have seen R with worse than your situation. The note-pad sounds like something her therapist asked her to do and it is the A Fog talking IMHO.


What has she agreed to basically? Does she want to fix the marriage? You are going to have a lot more pain and she will slowly come out of the fog. Every aspect she listed are the chemicals talking... are you kidding me... no one can compete with that. An affair is a vacation from real life.

I hope her therapist asks her what she thinks her ap will do with the mundane of life, bills, responsibilities... that is the real test of love.

[This message edited by atreides at 9:30 AM, July 31st (Thursday)]


Posts: 150 | Registered: Jul 2014
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 9:44 AM, July 31st (Thursday)

Onguard,

Yes I have heard of situations like yours that have survived. And I have heard of situations dealing with less that didn’t…
Basically ALL that is needed for reconciliation is the will and the commitment of both parties and right now your marriage doesn’t have that. Until and unless that happens then hoping for R and missing R is comparable to wanting to win the lottery and moaning about all you can’t buy until you do so.
Your WW isn’t there. Maybe she will want to R but right now it’s a long long way to go and maybe she won’t EVER get there.

Her list? Well… Good for the IC. Good that the IC is making her face the truth because I have a feeling the IC slowly but surely knocks her fantasy off that list. And you don’t have a snowballs chance in hell of winning on that list at the moment.
You are competing with fantasy. It’s like listing if you want to clean the WC or go unicorn-riding along the beach into the setting sunset. Until she realizes the unicorn is really an ass with a horn tied to its head and that the water is cold then you don’t have a chance. And there is no way YOU can tell her that. There is NOTHING bad or wrong you can say about OM. What you can do is create pressure to make the fantasy reality. To make OM more forcibly refuse WW, to make her feel shunned and even judged.

All you can do is make the affair reality. Break the fantasy.
I still think you should report the OM to the spinning studio. Don’t know if they will do anything but if OM and WW are still seeing each other (despite his supposed commitment to his GF) then it will be one more brick in that wall.
Let his GF know that you suspect there might be more contact between them. Nothing tends to turn that unicorn into an ass faster than when the ass brays at the WW to get off.
I also suggest you be very open with your 13 year old daughter (in a very careful and age-appropriate way): Mom is having an affair with OM and I am not willing to accept that.

All the above is done in a non-confrontational, calm and controlled manner. It’s not done to hurt or out of spite – it’s done because it’s the truth.

Carry on detaching. Avoid confrontations. Keep the pressure on her to find somewhere else to live with reminders that she should move out.

Do one thing right now: Google how and if infidelity factors in any way in your state.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5565 | Registered: Sep 2005
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 9:46 AM, July 31st (Thursday)

I agree with Atreids...

Your wife has certainly had enough time to get out of the affair fog. She can't even see this guy for what he is really like. Does she really think this guy would pay her way in life financially.

It will be interesting to see how her therapist handles this list. I am wondering if the therapist wont tell her exactly what Atreids wrote. That during an affair, there is no freaking pressure in life, because it is not even close to living a real life.


Posts: 4121 | Registered: Jun 2002
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, July 31st (Thursday)

She left a legal pad on her bed the other day and I looked at it. I know, snooping is a bad idea but I did it anyway.

You need to get past this notion that your WW has any privacy in your home. Given the situation, snooping is NOT a bad idea, especially when she is careless enough to leave vital information lyng around.

She had notes preparing for her IC session where she was literally comparing me to her ap. It was titled "define your losses". What would you lose if you lost this man? There were 3 items under my name. Financial security, comfort zone and family. (which is basically zero for ME.) There were 6 for him: Passion, excitement, common interests, the way he made me feel, intensity, looks. She also had written the parts of each of us that cause her pain and anger. He had more there as well but his were all about him being a player, untrustworthy and hurting her by dumping her. Other than looks, nothing I read was a surprise but seeing it on paper, in my waw handwriting, was like a dagger in the eye.

I hope you at least took pictures of these notes on your phone. Those notes were golden for you. Did you see the selfishness in it? Did you see how we were right on the mark with her concerns? "Financial security, comfort zone and family." Those are her pressure points. Filing for D and having her move out puts serious pressure on those concerns. All the stuff she listed under OM is all temporary, no matter who she has a relationship. It's the "newness" of any realtionship. Typically it lasts 2 to 3 yrs for this utopic "unicorn" stage. You find those descriptions are very common for a lot of waywards and their initial justifications to themselves for their "WHY". Replace OM with a drug and you won't see much difference in the behavior of addiction. She has to withdrawl before she can even see what she destroyed.

Also, those notes could have been shown to the management of the spinning class and would have implicated the OM's involvement with students. They would fire his ass in a heart beat becuase no business wants a reputation for breaking up marraiges.

Did your DS13 tell you what how your WW explained what was going on? Was it generalized with "your father and I just drifted apart." or "your father and I can't get along. We argue and fight a lot." or anything else that evades the truth? Yes, tell her truth sans the details. Don't let her get gaslighted into thinking DS13 had any part of this.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 559 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
demos
Member
Member # 35660
Default  Posted: 10:49 AM, July 31st (Thursday)

That notepad tells me that she has to still be in the A with him. If he ended it and they had no contact why would she bother doing a define your losses list? That list means she has a choice to make which means the A is still active.

I'd tell his GF immediately.


Posts: 177 | Registered: May 2012
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 2:15 PM, July 31st (Thursday)

Jduff hits the nail on the head. Those items are her pressure points. Nothing else matters to her a divorce filing and her moving out hit all three

She's delusional if she even hopes for a real long term relationship with this guy. He's young and presumably fit and has a bevy of women with time on their hands to chose from. Why choose a much older one with the "baggage" of a thirteen year old daughter?

Maybe the therapist will make her understand this A is based on delusion. But what about the next temptation with a more age and job appropriate OM. Realizing this A can lead nowhere may make her a better person for herself, but do you want to declare yourself Plan B by taking her back even if her therapy works miracles and makes her remorseful she did this to you? Your life, your choice.

While it hurt be thankful you saw the list. You are not delusional. She wrote what she is not just told you in anger. That list was the result of deliberate thought. Never forget it


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 2:26 PM, July 31st (Thursday)

Sigh, as guarded as she is with her phone and computer, do you really think she just left that legal pad there?

strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2995 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 9:54 PM, July 31st (Thursday)

Onguard

You are doing the best you can, but please get R out of your head. Your wife has chosen to destroy her family and marriage and the catalyst is a "spinning instructor" . She regards you as the meal ticket.

When this first tarted, we all told you that the reason she would not leave the gym was because she wanted to try to keep fucking him, and that if his girlfriend ever broke up with him, your wife would bang him again in an instant. THAT IS STILL THE CASE, so what is the to think about R for.

You need to kick her out of your house, let her get an apartment quickly or she is going to be using your home as her sex romp room like she already has. She will find someone else if the spinning instructor does not get the urge to have her again.

You will do yourself a favor if you stop caring about why. She did it, she wants it this way, so what you should be doing is hiring the best lawyer you can afford and making her life as miserable as she made yours. make sure she has to go out an get a job. That will rock her world.

Please do not let your 13 year old melt you into getting back to where you were. She will adjust, Millions of kids turn out just fine from divorced situations, and you will be a much better father when your soul is not being destroyed by this idiot you are now still forced to call wife.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Topic Posts: 124