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User Topic: Divorce or Counseling
ambush
New Member
Member # 43387
Default  Posted: 12:35 PM, June 17th (Tuesday)

I'm one month in to finding out about my WW second affair. She's still working in the same place as the OM and isn't willing to quit or even look for another job. She's telling me everything is over but I'm sure that she's gone underground with the affair.

We've still been living together, taking care of our kids. Even though she's still seeing this other person, she talks about wanting to go on a vacation with me to some nice place without the kids. The way I feel now, I can't imagine spending a vacation alone with her.

I love my wife, but I know she's a liar and a cheater. I wanted so badly for her to end it with the OM and come back to me 100%. But she hasn't done anything to prove that she's committed to our marriage.

Do I demand that both of us go into counseling or just proceed with a divorce? Divorce would be hard on me too. We have three small kids and it would be a struggle for me to take care of them by myself. I'm sure it will impact them in a bad way. Is counseling worth it when your partner is still dishonest?


Posts: 26 | Registered: May 2014 | From: Texas
houseofpain
Member
Member # 25706
Default  Posted: 12:58 PM, June 17th (Tuesday)

Funny, I love my husband, but he is also a liar and a (serial) cheater. He is remorseful, but has never worked on changing himself. I tossed him out of the house yesterday. I work full-time and have a disabled 14 yr. old son and I desperately need help. But it's not worth it. It's not worth being lied to and humiliated over and over.

Many of us tend to hang on to any crumb of hope that they toss our direction. It's no way to live. If she is truly sorry, she will do whatever it takes to make things work. If not, you deserve better.


D-Day: 09/19/09
D-Day2: 10/19/13
Me: 49
WS: 45
Blended family with 5 kids

Pain is just fear leaving the body


Posts: 75 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Texas
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 1:14 PM, June 17th (Tuesday)

Ambush

Go to JFO and read the thread titled BEFORE YOU RECONCILE. From what you describe, you are now in an open marriage with no choice in the matter because YOU are allowing that to happen. Before you go anywhere near a MC, you should see an attorney, prepare divorce papers, and then have the following discussion where you tell her that she can do whatever she wants BUT not as your wife
Your demands should be
NO CONTACT including a letter or e mail that you see
TOTAL TRANSPARENCY
COMMITMENT TO YOU AND YOUR MARRIAGE

RIGHT NOW, THERE ARE NO CONSEQUENCES FOR HER! She gets to have OM, totally disrespect you and humiliate you, and you even contemplate takling her on a nice vacation.

You WILL NOT nice her out of this and you need to knock her ass of the fence. You are crazy if you spend a dime on MC before you have her commitment to stop this affair.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
veronique12
Member
Member # 42185
Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, June 17th (Tuesday)

I agree with Badhurt. Filing for D is you drawing a line in the sand and showing your WW that how she is treating you is unacceptable (b/c it is). It is standing up for yourself and your M and your children. Continuing on and hoping she'll change is not going to help your M b/c in all actuality your current M is dead. Her actions have done it in.

The truth is that you cannot control your WW's actions. You can set boundaries for remaining with her and she can make the decision whether to meet your requirements. That's all.

She is being selfish and is disrespecting you. I know it has to be so hard to draw the hard line in the sand, but that's the only way out of this limbo.


BW: me (38)
WH: 43
OW: false "friend"
D-Day: 11/29/13 (4 month EA discovered); 12/19/13 (discovered was also PA); TT thru 2/14
Married: 2001; Together for nearly 20 years
2 beautiful young kids

Posts: 547 | Registered: Jan 2014
WeepingBuddhist
Member
Member # 39139
Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, June 17th (Tuesday)

After I found about his A, my XH was doing all the right things when I found out he was planning to meet up with ANOTHER skank while I would be out of town. For me, that was it. If you're not seeing a therapist, maybe finding someone who is strictly in your corner can help you. You don't need to make a decision but you deserve to feel safe.


Me: BS 46
Him: unimportant
D Day:4-27-13
DIVORCED!!! 2-20-14

Posts: 607 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Columbus
FrmrBH80124
Member
Member # 42967
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, June 17th (Tuesday)

If I were in your shoes, I would proceed with divorce. There's no remorse. No remorse, no successful MC. It's a waste of time and money.

You and your children deserve better. File the papers and knock her the f*ck off the fence. She'll either recommit to the M or leave. Either choice is better than what you are dealing with now.

Don't go on vacation with her. She doesn't deserve it. Save your money for the D.


ME - BH 45
Her - XWS 30
D - April 2010 - never looked back and good riddance.
Happily remarried!

Though much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days
moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are


Posts: 181 | Registered: Apr 2014
KeepOnMovin
Member
Member # 38245
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, June 17th (Tuesday)

Ambush. i'm sorry you're here. many similarities between your story and mine.

my biggest regret in how i handled all of this stuff, was that i allowed her to continue to eat cake, have her affair(s). I would have had a better chance to save my marriage, and my family, by kicking her ass out, and filing for divorce. I tried to reason with her and show her how great of a partner i am. i wasted thousands of dollars in MC, and all i accomplished was being humiliated and even further degrading my self-esteem.

You can't compete with OM, and you shouldn't be. You are the better man, hands down, and you deserve better. But, she only sees how wonderful he is and has most likely has rewired her brain to make you the bad guy. She has to villanize you to justify her guilt. Most of the stories are similar, just different players.

Everything Badhurt wrote, please do. take care of yourself, and don't take her on vacation. that only feeds her ego kibbles.

best wishes bro.


Me: BH
Her: who cares?
Married: 22 years
2 sons at home
1 son in college
Divorced on 9/4/14!
Often it's the deepest pain which empowers you to grow into your highest self.

Posts: 332 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
seethelight
Member
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 3:59 PM, June 17th (Tuesday)

Do I demand that both of us go into counseling or just proceed with a divorce? Divorce would be hard on me too. We have three small kids and it would be a struggle for me to take care of them by myself. I'm sure it will impact them in a bad way. Is counseling worth it when your partner is still dishonest?

Well, since you seem to want to reconcile, why not DEMAND that she stop seeing the OM immediately and make a no contact, ending the affair call with you listening as well as write a no contact letter that you approve and mail certified.

If she does not agree, then file.

Really what have you lost?

Counseling will only work, if she cuts off contact with the OM.


ďIf two people truly have feelings for one another then they donít have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1379 | Registered: May 2014
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 4:22 PM, June 17th (Tuesday)

Welcome - You will find lots of great support here, and learn ways to save yourself from making the mistakes many of us did.

First of all I would urge you to go see a D attorney, and find out how this will play out if you decide to D. What are your rights, her obligations, and so forth. This can be really empowering.

Next you need to decide what you are willing to tolerate and what you aren't. Then you sit her down, and tell her these are absolutes, and if she doesn't comply then you are done.

In the meantime you need to read up on the 180, it's a basically a process where you withdraw from her emotionally and physically. Only discuss the true needs - kids, and finances.
If this AP has a spouse let her know immediately. Nothing takes the shine off an A than the ugly bright light of day.

Since this is her second go round, I have to ask what did you do the first time. Did you guys really do the work of R or did you forgive, and sweep it under the rug, and go on with life?
The reason I ask is because she is broken. Until she does the work to figure out her why, she will remain broken, and you are bound to go through this again and again. Your wife simply isn't the person you believed she was, and now you have to face the harsh reality that your M will never be the same.

I would also urge you to get into some counseling for yourself, and when you pose you must haves to her, make her go. She will need help to dig deep and figure this shit out.

Keep reading, keep posting.

((((and strength))))


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8707 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
ambush
New Member
Member # 43387
Default  Posted: 5:05 PM, June 17th (Tuesday)

Thank you for all your responses. It really helps give me strength while I try to deal with all of this.

I did make her call the OM. She was crying when she spoke to him and the conversation was very brief. I don't even think it lasted a minute. But then she went back to work again and I see clues that she broke the NC. Since I've been through this with her already, I know she's lying to me.

When I found out about the first guy, she told me she was relieved I found out because she wanted to stop it. I basically forgave her and swept it under the rug. I found out she was lying about wanting to stop it. She kept seeing him but eventually she stopped...or maybe he did. I'm not sure how it ended but I know it did after some time.

I don't know anything about this guy. She tells me he's married, which makes me think he's not. She always gives false information about her affairs to me.

I found her old phone in her purse today. I bought her a new phone for her birthday last year so I don't see any reason for her to carry this one. I took it out of her purse before she went to work. She came back and started flipping out and asked for it back. I told her I wasn't going to give it to her and she left. There's a lock code on it so it's not like I can view anything in it. I really don't need to. I could tell by her reaction what she was doing with it.


Posts: 26 | Registered: May 2014 | From: Texas
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 5:10 PM, June 17th (Tuesday)

Ambush

Sounds like you have the answers you need . I hope you take some action and get to an attorney ASAP.
Try to stay strong


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
tearingaway
Member
Member # 28618
Default  Posted: 5:15 PM, June 17th (Tuesday)

Based on your last post, ambush, I think you have your answer.

Posts: 346 | Registered: May 2010
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 5:34 PM, June 17th (Tuesday)

Go see a lawyer. No remorse here.

Do an outline of what you need to learn from lawyer

Fees and costs
Time if contested and if uncontested
Property division
Child custody
Visitation
Spousal support
Medical insurance
Role,of fault in above, if any where you live
Rights to live in house of both spouses
Anything else you can think of

This way you maximize the benefit of the consultation, are far les susceptible to legal blackmail/bullshit of WW, and knowledge is power.

Seeing a lawyer doesn't mean you're filing tomorrow, either.

Don't expect marriage counseling from the lawyer, either. Not our job, although most can refer to counselor so as desired. And you cannot force WW to go, so I'm talking about individual,counseling.

Vacation without kids? Wow, that's champagne and caviar eating, not just cake eating.


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
918Mama
Member
Member # 37756
Default  Posted: 6:46 PM, June 17th (Tuesday)

Loving your wife is one thing.

Loving yourself is something different.

Love yourself enough to not be her doormat.


Surrender to what is. Let go of what was. Have faith in what will be. -- Sonia Ricotti

Posts: 585 | Registered: Dec 2012
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:44 PM, June 17th (Tuesday)

If she won't leave her place of employment and seek another job then out her and the OM to Human Resources at her place of work. They should either dismiss both of them, or ensure they do not meet during the day at least. Also out the affair to your family and her co-workers. Just have to put pressure on this affair if you wish to end it. Right now you are allowing her to cake-eat with impunity.

Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
ambush
New Member
Member # 43387
Default  Posted: 1:21 AM, June 19th (Thursday)

OK now...I heard the suggestion about outing the affair at the WS/OP workplace before. Do companies really care about an affair? It's morally wrong, but it doesn't impact their bottom line. I've thought about doing what you suggested, but I'm just wondering if it's effective.

Telling my family is something I struggle with. My parents already dislike her. For me to tell them would be another dagger in what little hope I have in reconciliation.

I have a consultation with a lawyer today. His hourly rates are pretty expensive. (Consult is free). Is an expensive attorney worth it in a "no fault" state? Should I cancel and go through someone else.


Posts: 26 | Registered: May 2014 | From: Texas
RomanticInnocenc
Member
Member # 43041
Default  Posted: 1:45 AM, June 19th (Thursday)

Good luck with the lawyer ambush, I hope you get the answers you want.

In regards to outing her, my family doesn't know about my WH's affair because I know they couldn't just support me/us in our decision to R, they would have opinions, and those opinions would be to end the marriage. Mostly because they don't understand. BUT I would out her to her family. They should know. In regards to work, I would find out the name of the OM and out them too. They need the light shined on them, and they probably will care if they think they have used work time to carry it on. Also, if he is married out him to his wife. My guess is that he will desert your wife in a heart beat. He isn't wanting long term or she would have left you by now. Shine the light on them, see the lawyer and really take the fantasy out of her life. Then you'll know if there is even a minute chance at R.


Me: BS 31
WH: 29 (theseseatsRtaken)
DS: getting close to 1
Together 10 years, married 2.
DD1: 8th of Jan 2014
DD2: 10th of Jan 2014
NC: 8th of Jan
In hopeful R!

Posts: 324 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Australia
ambush
New Member
Member # 43387
Default  Posted: 5:13 PM, June 19th (Thursday)

I went to the attorney's office today. I met with his assistant. She told me that courts in Texas don't normally consider infidelity when awarding custody of kids. It can have a bearing on dividing property (60/40) instead of (50/50). Texas usually favors the mother during custody disputes. It's really not the answer I was looking for, since custody was my primary concern. She did mention that they would take into consideration who is the primary caregiver of the kids right now. That's me, but I'm sure my wife would lie about this like she does about other things.

Maybe I'll take a second opinion..but after that meeting I'm not sure I want to file right now.


Posts: 26 | Registered: May 2014 | From: Texas
doggiediva
Member
Member # 33806
Default  Posted: 5:21 PM, June 19th (Thursday)

I would say document all that you can over time, regarding the fact that you are the primary care giver...


Don't tie your happiness to the tail of somebody else's kite

Posts: 1251 | Registered: Nov 2011
Sleepingbeauty
Member
Member # 43792
Default  Posted: 9:01 PM, June 19th (Thursday)

Divorce. I am also a month out since DD. three weeks since he confessed. He has done things that can never be fixed. When they will mot give up the ap or even comsider counseling it is time to move on IMHO.

I know it sucks amd here are some ((((hugs))))


Posts: 330 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: East coast
ambush
New Member
Member # 43387
Default  Posted: 7:02 AM, June 20th (Friday)

I was actually looking for a divorce, but even the lady I met at the attorney's office recommended trying counseling. My wife says she would consider it now but if she's still seeing the OM, wouldn't this be a waste of time and money?

Posts: 26 | Registered: May 2014 | From: Texas
sisoon
Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 7:43 AM, June 20th (Friday)

The 180, as tushnurse mentioned, is an option between counseling and D.

For counseling, what are your goals? What are her goals? If they don't align, the only thing MC will do for you is perhaps help you understand what the conflicts are and show some ways to resolve them - but the resolution still needs both parties to want a mutually satisfactory resolution.

Of course, you could use MC to show you your W isn't a candidate for R ... but you still won't D until you're ready.

The 180 seems like your best bet by far, since you don't sound ready to D. (And there's nothing wrong with not being ready to D at this point.)


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10352 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
Shockleader
Member
Member # 36827
Default  Posted: 7:43 AM, June 20th (Friday)

Ambush. If she is still in contact, there is NO WAY IN HELL any counseling will be effective, NONE. Sure, some quack counselors will hand you the "the OM is just a symptom, you need to work on yourself to win her back"... BULLSHIT. She needs NC, and quit/relocate her job as the first steps toward any resolution, period.

I heard this from a MC, who I dropped on the spot. I told my ex cheater I will not have you at work with this POS, and if you don't have a plan/quit/relocate your job by x time, I will file for D. I said it deadpan serious, no anger, just matter of fact. Mind you at this time, my ex-POS simply claimed she was just interested in this scumbag, I had no idea of the true depth, all the incredible lies that it had already turned fully sexualized, etc... I didn't care, there was no way in hell I was going to live with the deceit, soul killing existence, and going against my moral code.

True to my word, she got served, and I am so glad I did it! I didn't care if I lived in a refrigerator box after D, getting away from the toxic situation, and trying to help my DD was all I cared about. Yep, the cost sucked. Seeing my ex-POS behavior was shocking, but now I look back and know my hand was forced, and no other option existed.

Please, PLEASE, file and have her served. You will feel relieved, and experience renewed strength that finally you are doing something to help yourself, and get on the road to a much better future.


D-Day spring 2012
Me BS 47
Xcheater 44
One DD 19
Married 23 years
Divorced 12/23/13 Fu*king A!

The cruel, the unkind, those without honor, feast on the tender heart...


Posts: 652 | Registered: Sep 2012
KeepOnMovin
Member
Member # 38245
Default  Posted: 5:28 PM, June 20th (Friday)

My wife says she would consider it now but if she's still seeing the OM, wouldn't this be a waste of time and money?
Yup!

We went to MC. My attorney suggested it. But she had no intention of changing. She was lying during MC, IC, to OM, to me. She just wanted to appear to be working on things and continued her affair(s).

So, yes it is a waste of time and money if she honestly does not intend to look inside herself and change.

My detailed story was on my old profile. i will add it back to my SI journal. you may find some similarities.

take care of yourself ambush. k


Me: BH
Her: who cares?
Married: 22 years
2 sons at home
1 son in college
Divorced on 9/4/14!
Often it's the deepest pain which empowers you to grow into your highest self.

Posts: 332 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
ambush
New Member
Member # 43387
Default  Posted: 6:11 PM, June 21st (Saturday)

The problem for me is I don't want to lose my kids or even have partial custody. My WW is not the type that will look in the best interests of her children. She loves going shopping, drinking, etc and doesn't really like doing anything with the kids. But she's probably still want custody of them.

About four years ago, she got tossed in jail for public intoxication. It was supposed to be her day to pick up the kids, but before that she went drinking with a friend and they apparently were acting goofy enough for someone at the restaurant to call the police. I had to leave work early and pick up my two kids and keep an eye on them while working on bailing her out.

The lawyer's assistant told me this probably isn't relevant since it was so long ago. Seems like nothing she did before matters and nothing she does now matters. It's frustrating.


Posts: 26 | Registered: May 2014 | From: Texas
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 6:42 PM, June 21st (Saturday)

Ambush

Most MC worth anything will absolutely refuse to do MC when one partner is still engaging in the affair. So you are not going to accomplish anything but spending money and time while your wife has her boyfriend . If you continue with what you are doing your money would be better spent in IC for yourself to help you adjust to your current situation of being in an open marriage of your wife s choosing.
Your kids are not going to benefit from watching you be disrespected and humiliated. They will pick up on it for sure. Please stop using them as an excuse to remain in denial.
You can help yourself by facing the reality which is tough, and taking some action to change it.
If you don't she'll continue her affair while you chat with the MC


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 6:44 PM, June 21st (Saturday)

Well ambush, if you don't do something then she will continue to cake-eat and live a alcoholic, care-free life with her boyfriend while you look after the kids.

Most employers won't tolerate affairs between employees because of the risk of litigation and the example it sets among the work-force in general. Worth having a word with HR to see if they can help. Often the re-assign wayward employees so they don't work the same shifts etc.

It sounds as if you are slipping into an acceptance mode. In that case your WW will continue to have affair after affair, until she leaves taking the kids with her and shacks up with an OM. You'll lose custody anyway someday soon. Act now while you have some control over the situation.


Posts: 1748 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 7:39 PM, June 21st (Saturday)

Find anther lawyer. The assistant is offering legal and marriage counseling advice. You can get that at the end of any bar in town from Norm and Cliff.

Waste of time and money to do MC where WS is still,actively in the affair.

180 if you're not prepared to file for divorce. She's a liar and a cheat.


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
ambush
New Member
Member # 43387
Default  Posted: 5:22 PM, June 24th (Tuesday)

I finally told my parents yesterday. It felt really good to unload everything I kept inside all these years. I told them I wanted a divorce. They, being old school, recommended counseling at a church. I haven't told my WW that they know and they haven't confronted her with it yet. They wanted to wait until we drive down to their place tomorrow to drop off the kids for a few weeks. I'm not sure if that's a good idea. I can see her feeling trapped like a caged animal. Should I just tell them to not mention it?

Posts: 26 | Registered: May 2014 | From: Texas
Topic Posts: 29