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Just Found Out
User Topic: Please Help Me...I am Devestated!
downnout2014
New Member
Member # 43860
Default  Posted: 9:06 PM, June 24th (Tuesday)

I just confirmed that my Wife of 10 years has been cheating on me with a co-worker. The messed up part of the story is, she was cheating on me all throught couple's counselling. My story is the typical story: dated, fell in love, got married, bought a house, had kid, worked alot, had 2nd kid, worked alot, and drifted apart. During all of this activity, we had fights, but we would always talk about it and kiss and make up afterwards.

She changed in early 2012 (I am sure I wasn't perfect either...but I never cheated). We had a few severe verbal arguments and the next thing I knew we were in counselling again (our first couselling sessions were in 2008). For the first few months of counselling, she stated that she wanted work on herself and wanted to work on our relationship. I thought this was fine and agreed to go. During counselling it was the blame-game...everything my fault...she was a victim that needed more (constant) affection. There were also some issues that I needed to resolve and I agreed to work them (like any Type A would).

After the first few months, we return from vacation and she let's me know during a session that she "met someone else" and was no longer sure about our marriage (D-Day1). This was my first taste of a knife in my back (and not the last). Throught counselling she said it never went far, but she didn't know if she wanted ot be with anyone. I forgave her for her mistakes and we remained in therapy for about 1.5 years.

Throughout the counselling sessions, my sixth sense was goign crazy. Something just wasn't right. She was going to two sessions a week. One with me, and one for herself. However, I never noticed a change in her behavior, it just became more subtle. I also sensed that the other man was still around (but couldn't prove anything). Whenever my instincts would get the better part of me, I would let her know that I felt betrayed and that something just wasn't right. She re-assured me, comforted me, cried with me, said that she "loved me and wanted to grow old with me". Needless to say, I so wanted to believe my Wife so I just depressed my insticts for several months.

Over those seven months, little clues came out of the woodwork. Stories that she told me about work seemed like she was just not using his name in them. I found other info that led me to believe they were still very much friends. Also, over the seven months, she began to exercise a lot, get on birth control, become more focused on her body, hanging out with "friends" after work, etc.

I knew something was up since she guarded her cell phone like a fort. Her phone has been locked with a PIN since we began therapy (she never locked her phone, neither did I). However, sometimes it was left unlocked and I would check her texts every now and them. I discovered texts between her and the other guy a few times, but nothing blatant. However, I found it strange that the tone of the texts were very intimate and friendly (red flag). This is when I knew something was up, but there was no real evidence. This all changed a few months ago. As I was walking past the phone, my instict told me to "check it". I did and noticed no messages in the regular text software. However, I noticed that she had "kik" which is a more discreet way of texting. I opened it up and there was his pic and a message from him to her, and her to him. It wasn't sexual, but it seemed like they were fighting about something. I was stunned, but still had no proof of anything (but it was enough to confirm she was not living up to her part of the deal).

Over the last few months, I waited patiently to check out her phone. Well I did last week and the memory card contained past text messages and the "kik" texts that I saw months ago. Her past text messages included sex talk, fantasies, plans to meet, family talk, talk about my kids, and work. It also included texts that warned each other about their wherabouts as to avoid each other when they were with their spouses. The last text was the complete message from the one first I saw months ago. It turns out he just wanted sex, and she wanted a "friend". She was practically begging him for his friendship (she never wanted my friendship like this).

Last week she invited me to an office party and the other guy was going to be there (she didn't know that I saw the text messages). She let me know that she wanted me there, but didn't want to go if I was uncomfortable (she downplayed her whole relationship the entire time. At one point, she claimed that she never saw him at work). I went to the party and it was surreal (I think by then I was still in a state of shock). We left early and I re-iterated my feelings that something was going on....

As in the past, I gave her an opportunity to just tell the truth because the story she told about the other guy never made sense. I asked her questions and told her that it was OK to level with me. It was lie after lie and half-truths. She claimed she just found him attractive, they talked about being together, but it ended in 2012. All she did was disort the truth, and blame me for past mistakes that was already discussed in counselling. I told her that I thought her affair lasted through our therapy sessions. She disagreed and just hugged me.

She doesn't know that I know that she scheduled a therapy session this week for us. I am sure she is planning to deny, and deceive the therapist (I suspect she has not told the therapist the truth...which is sad). So I plan on giving her one lst chance to come clean, or I'll just present the proof if she doesn't.

Based on your experience, how would you handle this? What would you do? How do you prepare for a divorce? As a Father, how do I begin to protect myself? I would appreciate any and all feedback. The only thing that's keeping me somewhat sane right now are my kids. Besides that, I feel like I am in a suspended state with no one to talk to...


Posts: 25 | Registered: Jun 2014
marriedandbroken
New Member
Member # 43832
Default  Posted: 9:44 PM, June 24th (Tuesday)

Man, I feel your pain and that's a terrible story of ongoing lies.

I felt the same way after I found out about my WF emotional affair. It felt like I had no one to talk to and I was alone in the world. But finding this site has helped tremendously.

Read the BS FAQ and take a look at the list of articles.

Keep posting and sharing.

You will make it through this.


Posts: 8 | Registered: Jun 2014
Junior
Member
Member # 22589
Default  Posted: 10:15 PM, June 24th (Tuesday)

Sorry you have found yourself here man.Welcome. Good news is that you've joined a group of very helpful and supportive folks. Lots of experience to share.

It would help if you shared a bit more info. Is your wife still involved in this affair? Sounds like she is. If so I personally would not confront quite yet. The good news is you know his name and that he's also married. Advantage yours.

Is he a superior of hers at work or she of him? If so there could be ramifications of the legal type or at a minimum corporate policy violations that could impact continued employment at this business.

If you can keep yourself together emotionally, do not make her any more suspicious of your snooping. Plan your moves.

Knowing what I do now I would.

1. See a divorce attorney to learn what is involved in your state. Get a free consultation or two.
2. Find a way to contact the other mans wife. Don't contact her immediately.
3. Keep snooping if that affair is still active and start writing down times she's out with co workers, etc. Print out coppies of all the texts you can get your hands and store them somewhere outside of your home.
4. Get an STD test.

After I had those ducks in a row I would try to all on the same day. First contact the other mans wife and compare notes about times they could have been out together, etc. Then when my wife got in I'd have some Divorce papers ready to present her. Even If I just printed some off the internet. Once you contact his wife you can rest assured that Kik app will be getting a workout and she'll probably come rushing home.

Once she showed her face I'd hand her the papers and tell her, I won't tolerate cheating pack a bag and get out. Confrontation will be on at that point. She won't have a chance to compare notes with the other man and should be paniced. I'd use that to my advantage and take things from there.

No more Mr. Nice, she killed him.


Posts: 189 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Pacific Northwest
downnout2014
New Member
Member # 43860
Default  Posted: 10:17 PM, June 24th (Tuesday)

marriedandbroken

Great timing! 10 min after I read the 180.

My Wife comes down and asks if I still wanted to go to "a themepark with the kids this weekend".

It's a great thing that I read the 180, because I may have violated the rules.

Last night I told her the most concrete, dead-on thoughts about what happened (without actually telling her that I have proof).. I can tell she is a bit shaken up and trying to feel if I will just bounce back like all of the other times.

It feels like the knife is deeper in my back since she is going back to her "business as usual" approach with deny, deflecting, and acting as if nothing happened. I can tell where this is already going...my bet is that she is in such denial that she will deny that it was her texts (even though she and him signed their names after each text). My gut is stil ltelling me our therapist doesn't know the truth and I feel actually bad for her when she finds out since she worked so hard for us...


Posts: 25 | Registered: Jun 2014
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 10:18 PM, June 24th (Tuesday)

You need to get to an attorney BEFORE any more MC takes place and have D papers drawn up. If necessary, make an excuse why you cannot go when she makes appointment so you can get to attorney first.
That must have been quite humiliating for you to have her take you to the office party where the AP was. Congrats to you for holding it together.
Once you have the papers drawn go to MC with her and let her hang herself, and then confront her with your evidence in front of MC.
You can stop the divorce if you want to . Your call on that one,
Not for any of us to say.
You are in an open marriage with a liar that you had no choice as to whether or not you wanted to participate

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
downnout2014
New Member
Member # 43860
Default  Posted: 10:24 PM, June 24th (Tuesday)

Junnior - from the texts that I have, the affair "ended" sometime last Fall. They apparently got into a fight over something at work. The last text was from her basically begging for his friendship. He practically kicked her to the curb for now becuase he now knows that I know about him and doesn't want his wife to know. I'm debating about telling the other wife because I just want to focus on protecting myself and my kids. Plus after two years of counselling, I feel that it is time to get her head out of the fog. I just wrote that she is still a bit shaken up from last night's conversation, but trying to get back to business as usual...

Posts: 25 | Registered: Jun 2014
downnout2014
New Member
Member # 43860
Default  Posted: 10:28 PM, June 24th (Tuesday)

Badhurt - thanks for the advice!

Posts: 25 | Registered: Jun 2014
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 10:31 PM, June 24th (Tuesday)

Your BEST insurance policy in insuring this does not start up again is telling his wife. Or do you want to absorb all the pain.
Doesn't he deserve some.
If your wife is desperately wanting to be "friends", it WILL happen again if you let him have your wife as his little secret

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
downnout2014
New Member
Member # 43860
Default  Posted: 10:34 PM, June 24th (Tuesday)

Anyone use this site? Or any other divorce paper site?

http://www.3stepdivorce.com

(no I am not advertising the site, I just need the fastest way to get papers drawn up).


Posts: 25 | Registered: Jun 2014
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 10:37 PM, June 24th (Tuesday)

Someone will probably post to you to help you with that. Just get them before you go to MC so she does not have time to formulate any bull shit story. I would also inform her at appointment right after you confront her with evidence that you just contacted OM wife before heading for the appointment.you do not want to give them any chance to coordinate stories

[This message edited by Badhurt at 10:38 PM, June 24th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
downnout2014
New Member
Member # 43860
Default  Posted: 10:41 PM, June 24th (Tuesday)

badhurt - thanks for pulling ME out of the fog!

Posts: 25 | Registered: Jun 2014
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 10:45 PM, June 24th (Tuesday)

Stay strong. You have endured too much for too long. Keep posting and stop letting her control your life.
She has been deceiving you for a long time.
Do you want to live like this?
Those that refuse to be victims anymore have a much better chance of better outcomes.

[This message edited by Badhurt at 10:47 PM, June 24th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
downnout2014
New Member
Member # 43860
Default  Posted: 10:03 AM, June 25th (Wednesday)

UPDATE:

Last night she wrote a letter in response to my letter and our conversation last week. In my letter, I expressed my feelings about there was something still going on and to just be honest.

Her letter just contained a re-hash of the "we hugged with the office door open, and that was it" (however she did state they had to be careful). She also stated that "he gave her space so she could work on her marriage". My response to this is that he sounds like a boyfriend that gave you space to be with your husband. I also responded that if it was just hugging and conversation, why did we avoid him last week at the party.

Besides the usual half-truths and no detail. She reverted back to the same old story about loving me, being naive about some things,etc. The irony is that she stated that she did mention to others at work that we were in counselling and that we were doing fine.

Her closing was "I want you to stay on board, but if you're too hurt or afraid I would understand"

My repsonse: "I will not tolerate the betryal any longer. I am not too hurt or afraid to stand up for myself."

She is clearly in the FOG and needs to be brought back to reality.


Posts: 25 | Registered: Jun 2014
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, June 25th (Wednesday)

downout

You need to really get tough with your wife.

See an attorney to understand your rights.

Drop the bomb at counseling with proof. Then get up and tell the MC to work on your wife personally and help her with her lying.

I would also contact the OM's wife and let her know what really went on. Have proof though to back it up if either women asks for it.

Good Luck

HM


Posts: 966 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
downnout2014
New Member
Member # 43860
Default  Posted: 11:06 AM, June 25th (Wednesday)

Thanks HappyMan!

That is the plan this week during our joint counselling session.

I have also scheduled an individual appt with the counselor like I have done in the past tonight.

I am just trying to give her one huge last chance to come clean bfore the bomb is dropped in a couple of days...


Posts: 25 | Registered: Jun 2014
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, June 25th (Wednesday)

You've got the plan. Stick to it and don't back down. You will get through this and your self esteem will come back once you take control of your life. She can be in her fog as long as she wants to.
You just choose not to participate on a marriage with three people in it.
And please make sure you tell the wife of OM. He deserves some grief in his life

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Commanche1
Member
Member # 39692
Default  Posted: 11:27 AM, June 25th (Wednesday)

downnout2014, You need to let the other mans wife know, The OM will then call your wife and kick her to the curb again, this will reinforce that he doesn't want to be friends. Your wife will then know the jig is up. she has no respect for you now, you can serve her with papers to coincide with the notice to Om's wife, that should bring her out of the fog real quick

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jun 2013
10yearsafter
Member
Member # 43139
Default  Posted: 11:51 AM, June 25th (Wednesday)

I don't quite understand the affair has been over for a while, right? Was it physical? Do you need to be STD tested?

She won't come clean so get the divorce papers and tell her you are done. You have evidence of the affair and you are sick of the deception.


Posts: 269 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 12:18 PM, June 25th (Wednesday)

I’m taking a slightly different angle on this situation.

I think divorce is possibly one of the most misunderstood processes here on SI. It’s not as if you ask for a divorce, file and then try to find ways to live together. It’s not an alternative form of marriage but the TERMINATION of a marriage and the process of finding the minimum future required interaction. Heck – if no children then chances are 2 years post-divorce you won’t see each other again ever. If children then it’s only around events related to them.

Another often misunderstood issue is the proof.
Unless infidelity is a major factor in divorce or custody then all the proof you need is the proof required to convince yourself. That’s it. And it’s relatively rare that infidelity factors at all when deciding custody and divorce.
Yes – it can be beneficial to have enough proof to convince the other betrayed spouse but delaying action to get that proof is not necessarily beneficial.
No – you do not have to have enough proof to convince the WS that they are having an affair. If your proof is solid enough to convince YOU then that’s enough. Definitely recognize the difference between being suspicious and being convinced, but once convinced there really is seldom reason to delay action.

And then there is the action…
A common piece of advice offered here on SI is not to do anything drastic for the first six months. Well… In a sense I agree but taken the way that advice is presented then you basically don’t do ANYTHING. I prefer to rephrase that advice to “don’t do anything unplanned. Think your actions through and refrain from burning bridges”.
You HAVE to take action because the infidelity is eating away like maggots in a festering wound.

And then…
I sometimes shake my head at the posters that come here, share their stories and ask for advice. Then tell us that their situation is so unique that they won’t follow the advice the extreme vast majority of us offers.
Like exposure…

If there is a single act that enhances your chances of getting out of infidelity then that’s exposure.
Be clear on this: Exposure is an action. It’s not a threat. You DO NOT tell your wife you are going to expose or that you have exposed. You simply expose and let the dust settle.
Be clear on this: Your wife will get the news and she will go ballistic. She will tell you that things were going OK but now that you have exposed there isn’t any chance for your marriage. This will last 1-2 weeks until she realizes you mean business. The trick is to remain consistent and purposeful for that time.
There are some ground-rules for exposure: It has to serve a purpose. That purpose is to force the issue regarding the affair. To inform people that can positively influence your wife (or OM) to stop. To remove the fantasy and excitement from the affair. It should always be done with respect and dignity.

I think it’s an extremely powerful moment when a betrayed husband realizes that divorce isn’t the worst outcome of what he’s dealing with. I am not saying you should divorce. Far from it. But what you should do is decide to NOT BE IN INFIDELITY. You then think what you can do to reach that goal and one of numerous tools to reach that goal is divorce.
It’s sort of like if you are fixing your car you don’t go about looking for jobs you can do with your spanner but rather apply the spanner to the jobs that need to be done. Your “job” is to get out of infidelity. Realizing that IF your wife does NOT want to get out of infidelity then you might have to terminate the marriage simply becomes a path or process to take on your journey out of infidelity.

If D sounds daunting then keep a number of things in mind:
It’s a process. It’s not as if you simply file and that’s it. Some states require a wait-period. Some require counseling or mediation. You need to get out of joint commitments, divide debt and assets, custody… It’s a process and it takes time. You can do a lot before turning in the docs and you need to do a lot simply to make the process possible.
At each and every stage of the process you can stop it. But only if both you and your wife want to stop it.

So what I recommend it this:

1) Tell your wife she is totally free to be in infidelity. If OM isn’t available she’s free to find another man. But not as you wife. If she wants to be your wife… then monogamy and a commitment to the marriage is necessary.
Yes – you admit that maybe you might have some part in your marriage hitting a rough spot. Yes – you need to make changes. But her decision to have an affair… that’s like deciding to cure bad breath by shooting your head off with a shotgun.
2) Tell your wife that until and unless she VERBALLY, FREELY and CLEARLY commits to the marriage and the hard work required to reconcile… Then you are simply assuming she’s remaining in infidelity. You however are moving out of infidelity. To reach that goal you are initiating the steps to detach and terminate the marriage.
3) It’s in her reach to stop the process and jump on board the program to exit infidelity. All she has to do is verbally commit and accept your reasonable demands.
These demand should include things like getting a new job, committing to total NC with OM, MC sessions, IC sessions to realize why she thought screwing another man sounded neat.
4) And then you simply move along. Do a good 180. Start the process of separating and detaching.
5) Expose. No warning. No advance. Simply do it.

About the MC sessions…
Despite not being “with” OM sexually then your wife is still in infidelity. Your wife’s affair ended bc the OM wanted it over. He wanted sex -> she wanted emotions. Her thought-pattern hasn’t changed and it’s only a matter of time when she realizes a quick BJ gets her some emotions in return. Or that the new customer who comes over every afternoon really looks cute… or that guy in accounting seems nice…)
While in infidelity then working on relationships and attending MC is a lot like sneaking a six-pack of beer to an AA meeting. You can listen and talk the right talk but you are never going to get results.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5566 | Registered: Sep 2005
steppingup
Member
Member # 42650
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, June 25th (Wednesday)

I am in a similar boat and herein lies the problem, women (or men) that dont want to change, who like to have fun outside the marriage or friends outside the marrige cause the marriage "Fidelity" to be lost, in otherwords if you are ok with infidelity, emotional, physical or otherwise, then keep going to therapy. If you are not ok with this, and she keeps showing she wants fun outside of your awareness then you have NO OPTION, but to move on and find that woman of your dreams that wants to ADORE YOU 100%. My wife is on the fence, that means to me she cannot decide if she wants cake and eat it too or just me. That is very selfish and messed up. Nobody is perfect but nobody needs to be treated like crap and take the safety and trust out of the marriage. IF she says it is just friends they will eventually or occasionally be physical, the man will not stick around unless he knows there will be occasinoal sex kibble to eat. FUCKERS. Yes, sorry, they are FUCKERS that is their definition. Good luck to you.


Her (WW 40s) Me (BH, 40s) very young DS & DD

"If you are a side dish, and you become their spouse, just remember, the side dish position is open again" - Foolme1


Posts: 646 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: CALI
downnout2014
New Member
Member # 43860
Default  Posted: 8:36 PM, June 25th (Wednesday)

UPDATE:

I met with our therapist and we talked about the past two years and what has happened. When I showed her the proof, I can tell she was really disappointed, but not surprised. She opened up a little to tell me it has been a challenge for her to keep my Wife to understand what she wants. She did think there was still some hope for us.

I basically told her to never mind the hope, when we meet as a couple she will have to fight for our marriage or I will move on. She agreed and understood where I was coming from...


Posts: 25 | Registered: Jun 2014
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 9:07 PM, June 25th (Wednesday)

Remember, as long as there is hope, the therapist makes money. You have the proof, you now have confirmation from therapist your wife is not all in.
You now let her hang herself with lies and the drop the papers on her at MC along with telling her you have told the wife of OM.
Don't back down!!!
Even your therapist was not surprised.
Now it has to become what YOU want.

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Michonne
New Member
Member # 43834
Default  Posted: 10:35 PM, June 25th (Wednesday)

My H cheated on me Id want to know no matter how devastating the truth would be, Id put an end to my H affair. The OM wife may be the ammunition you need to end everything. If you do tell the OM wife try to be as compassionate as you can. Shes may need your support and she may also be able to support you.

Hugs to you and hope whatever you choose to do it all works so you can start to heal.


Posts: 15 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: Sydney
downnout2014
New Member
Member # 43860
Default  Posted: 11:16 PM, June 27th (Friday)

UPDATE:

After what seemed to feel like 1,000 days since last week, it was time to shake my wife out of the fof...at least a little.

As the appointment approached, my expectations were low for any breakthoughs or true admissions. One of my demands was for her not to return to the same job (I assumed that she would be hesitant to agree to this). I had met with the therapist the day before so she knew what was going to happen. It felt like an intervention.

The session begins and I read her everything that I have felt over the last 2 years along with knowing about texts, sexts, meetings, etc. As I read, I can tell she was still in denial and embarassed, and maybe some guilt. I summarize with I am moving on with or without you, but I will no longer tolerate infidelity.

It's her turn to respond, and she still tries to minimize the past by saying it was only one fantasy, and that it ended and they were friends but no more...I pull out a copy of the evidence. She acts like she doens't know what it is...The therapist asks her about meeting my demands. She agrees to them all and still wants to save the marriage. I tell her she now has to work because I have no more trust for her.

As she began to explain, I can tell she was caught off guard, embarassed, and afraid. I can see that she actually believed her justification that it was only one time period that she sexted. At this point, I began to see some of her mental issues right in front of my eyes and I just focused on doing the 180. I explain that
I still love her, but she needs to fight for our marriage. The therapist talks to her about not having secret friendships in a marriage. She agrees.

I'm still sticking to my guns and protecting myself. The OW knows about her WH, and I have a second appointment with the divorce attorney. I'm willing to give this a chance one small step at a time as long as she follows the demands and willing to fight to save us.

Positives:
-Accepted to follow my demands
-Still wants to be married
-Wants to grow with me
-Will work with same therapist

Negatives:
-Seems to be naive about the damage she caused
-Not enough remorse
-Unresolved mental issues from past

How have any of you dealt with a partner that accepted your demands? What has happened since? How did doing the 180 go?


Posts: 25 | Registered: Jun 2014
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 12:01 AM, June 28th (Saturday)

Do NOT assume she has accepted your demands . You caught her totally off guard and she went I to defense mode because you were in MC. Had you done the same thing at home the denial would have been more stubborn on her part .

What was the reaction of OM wife?? If she was outraged and thankful to you, then you will have another set of eyes. If she acted like no big deal or did not care then she is worthless to you.

Your wife will probably be pissed you contacted OM wife when she did not want you to. Her tough luck, she needs to understand "it's game time" and she is in the fourth quarter and she is about to lose.

My guess is she will try to go underground and will contact OM or talk at work on how to continue . You have to insure that will not happen by getting her out of there like you plan.
I would give her the preliminary D papers and tell her you will rip them up if she shows remorse and not just sorrow at getting caught and that is a demand. And I would flat out tell her the next time she breaks the agreements she better have her own attorney because there will be no more conversation.

Lastly, if you trust her further than you can throw an elephant, you are crazy, and you should tell her that and that she has no one to blame for that but herself

Good job on everything . Hope you feel a little more in control of your life

[This message edited by Badhurt at 12:03 AM, June 28th (Saturday)]


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
downnout2014
New Member
Member # 43860
Default  Posted: 12:48 AM, June 28th (Saturday)

Badhurt, as she was explaining herself to the therapist, I felt that I had more resolve to stick to my guns! I feel even the therapist wanted to hit her on the head with an iron pan. I really stressed "with or without you" alot.

OW took the news, hard to read though since it was quick convo. At this point, I don't believe any words from her. I am just focused on me and the kids...I'm exhausted and need to rest hopefully I will get some sleep tonight.

You are right, it would have been denial if we were at home. I am glad I decided to talk the the therpist first. She was a little put off by the lying, but still wants to work on her mental issues. This is one reason I didn't really drop the hammer too hard, I don't know the true condition of her mental state.


Posts: 25 | Registered: Jun 2014
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 6:21 AM, June 28th (Saturday)

Downandour2014

First, what was the demeanor of the OM wife when you told her?? That is important to know as I told you. Is she with you or does she not care???

As far as dropping the hammer, my advice to you quite fry right now is "fuck your wife's mental state" You are making excuses for her. It is your mental state that is the problem here because you are the one losing sleep, you are the one having a hard time functioning, and you are the one who got the shit sandwich. Her behavior needs to change or her mental state is of no consequence if she wants to continue to have the OM in her life.
My guess is today you will get more bull shit or back to usual.
I would recommend TODAY, while yesterday is fresh in her mind, that you do the following:
(1) give her the D papers and tell her you will NOT tolerate any more lies, deception, or untruths, or that the next step will be moving forward on these papers.
(2). Look I to her eyes and calmly tell her you will NOT have three people in this marriage.
(3) Go to the OM and tell him you will be contacting HR regarding his inappropriate conduct. She will not like this but who gives a shit
(4). Get her out of that job
(5). Lastly tell her that she can save you both a lot of trouble and expense so if she cannot do without other men you and she need to D, no compromise at all.!!!!

Do not listen to any more blame shifting or denial. Don't entertain conversation about it and shut her off she she starts to deny, you have the Damm proof. When you let her blab that shit to you it gives it credibility in her mind.

Until you see re change at home, not in MC office, you have not gotten control. Personally, I would not go back to MC until she accepts your demands and acts on them.

You can win this game if you stay strong . Don't waiver

You are the good guy here


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
downnout2014
New Member
Member # 43860
Default  Posted: 8:32 AM, June 28th (Saturday)

Thanks BadHurt,

It's really hard to gage whether the OW is for or doesn't care. I guess I'll find out after her WH returns home from being away.

I told the therapist that I am not going to MC until behavior changes and demands are being met. She will not be returning to the job.

After some sleep, I feel good and just got from the grm. Working out is a key to staying somewhat mentally healthy.


Posts: 25 | Registered: Jun 2014
Uhtred
Member
Member # 40392
Default  Posted: 8:45 AM, June 28th (Saturday)

What Bigger said. You need to take every word of advice he posted. I'm sorry you're in pain brother it truly sucks. You'll make it through just stick to your guns. Your going to discover so many things about yourself during this time that you never knew were there and I'm saying in a good way. Keep yor chin up man and keep posting.


Me: BH 32years old DDay 4-29-13
Her: WW 33 years old
“Yet each man kills the thing he loves
By each let this be heard
Some do it with a bitter look
Some with a flattering word
The coward does it with a kiss
The brave man with a sword”

Posts: 627 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Houston, Texas
downnout2014
New Member
Member # 43860
Default  Posted: 9:01 PM, June 29th (Sunday)

UPDATE:

Another day minor progress. Last night was more about her emabrassment, and a re-tread of what her thoughts were (only believed 50%). She also gave me her cell phone password. This morning, I made breakfast for the kids and we all ate. After breakfast, our meeting to separate our finances was to take place. I believe this meeting continued to stress that my demands are real and there is no turning back. We discussed separating our aspects of our financial life except for hime repair and kids. She got sad and began to cry and showed remorse. I hugged her and told her that I forgive her, and have forgiven her every moment over two years as I knew she was deceiving me. She tells me more truth and confirms what my gut was telling me over the past two years.

I still don't trust anything, but she is finally remorseful and telling the truth (the kind of truth that implicates her and what she has been doing). It still hurts to know that all the sh&t that was going on behind me back. However, the OW now knows and this will be an interesting week.

I continue to stress with or without her and she seems genuinely ready to raise up to the challenge. However, as the 180 dictates, I believe less than 50% of her commitment. At this point, I am in protection mode for myself and kids...


Posts: 25 | Registered: Jun 2014
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 9:30 PM, June 29th (Sunday)

Only believing 50% is giving her too much of the benefit of the doubt. Right now you should believe NOTHING!!! Of course there were tears. She got caught red handed and then when you start to show her consequences she cries. And you should not have given her any affection. You have reinforced that by turning on the tears she can manipulate you.
You have been lied to for two full years and giving you her cell password gives her instant credibility. I don't think so.
You need to remain calm, businesslike, and methodically preparing for D. The OM has not even returned yet.
You need an extended period of building trust , complete NC and transparency. What you have so far is a natural reaction to getting busted.
And do not think for a minute that they cannot get a burner phone or new e mail so don't think getting her cell password is the magical answer .
If you do not remain totally on guard , you will not be the first one that has been burnt again. Two years of an affair does not disappear with a few tears

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
downnout2014
New Member
Member # 43860
Default  Posted: 9:54 PM, June 29th (Sunday)

badhurt, thanks brotha for keeping it real!

I am in no way giving her amnesty over a few tears. I am sticking by my guns! This is all I got. When I told her with or without her I menat it. As I heard the truth, i asked her why she acted like it wasn'tthe truth...no answer of course...

I believe she has a lot of work to to do the therapist and that she needs to understand the damage that she has caused. I am now seeing the extent she was damaged as a child (her father cheated on her mother repeatedly). There is a gap is her judgement and its very deep. However, with that said, I am doing what is right for me and the kids. Trust me, 50% trust means 0% trust for me...

Thanks for your concern and please keep me honest. I am going to need you in the coming weeks as things continue to unfold.

(For those of you you nerw here, please be sure to get real evidence (pics, texts, etc) because your mind will fool you becuase you want to believe it is not happening...but it is...).


Posts: 25 | Registered: Jun 2014
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 10:37 PM, June 29th (Sunday)

Everyone on forum will try to help you.
Please stop worrying about her working on anything with the therapist. For two years she worked with the therapist and it did not stop anything. And stop giving a shit about her family history.
The only fucking thing you need to be concerned about is that you get nothing but the truth, and then YOU make the decision what happens not her.
Your next step when the OM piece of shit returns is to let him know in no u certain terms you are totally aware of this affair and that you have every intention of reporting it to the HR dept of their company . And she needs to start looking for another job
No more hugs or signs of anything right now from you except that she has a very limited amount of time to convince you to stay.
If the OM wife gives him a hall pass, your wife cannot continue to work there.
I would also install a VAR device on her car. They certainly cool their communications at work.
You are getting somewhere because you are do e putting up with the shit.
Do not give her a moment to relax and think she has you back under control. She deserves the period of being uncomfortable. You have endured two years of it

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
HonoringVows
New Member
Member # 41043
Default  Posted: 11:16 PM, June 29th (Sunday)

You need to inform the wife she is married to a cheater. Make sure you have evidence otherwise she may not believe you.

[This message edited by HonoringVows at 11:20 PM, June 29th (Sunday)]


Me: 45
WH: 56
Married almost 21 years
3 adult children: 24, 19, 18
1st found out July 2010
Found phone calls and texts to/from escorts April 2014
Just Started Counseling

Posts: 16 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: California
HonoringVows
New Member
Member # 41043
Default  Posted: 11:16 PM, June 29th (Sunday)

You need to inform the wife she is married to a cheaper. Make sure you have evidence otherwise she may not believe you.


Me: 45
WH: 56
Married almost 21 years
3 adult children: 24, 19, 18
1st found out July 2010
Found phone calls and texts to/from escorts April 2014
Just Started Counseling

Posts: 16 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: California
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 1:17 PM, July 1st (Tuesday)

Down n Out

How are you holding up ?


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
downnout2014
New Member
Member # 43860
Default  Posted: 4:31 PM, July 1st (Tuesday)

BadH,
I am holding up well. More truth came out last night and I am just letting her talk real open. She is very remorseful, and she sees that I mean business. She re-affirmed that she is committed to saving our marriage. I guess time will tell. Until then, I'm doing the 180 and it's keeping me balanced. I also met with my attorney again to understand my options. I am also going to seek my own therapist to get my mind right. Either way, this is a new beginning, with or without her...

Posts: 25 | Registered: Jun 2014
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 8:48 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)

So what is the more truth and what are you don't about it?

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, July 3rd (Thursday)

downnout

You did very well.

Stay vigilant. Keep communicating.

And never settle for less.

Hm


Posts: 966 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
downnout2014
New Member
Member # 43860
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, July 7th (Monday)

Thanks for the feedback folks.

Had a long 4th of July. Went away and left the kids with the grand parents. She has been truthful about the affair, and that she was responsible for letting it happen. She claims it last year. She also claimed to only kiss him, but did not want to go further. She claims to want to move forward with me. She seems more remorseful and seeems to be excited to spending more time with me.

I tell her that she needs to commit to the demands just to even begin talking about reconciling. I still believe 50% of what she has told me and still working on protecting myself (i.e., 180, sleeping, exercise, enjoying my kids, meeting with lawyers). At this point, actions speak louder than words.

I would appreciate some thoughts...


Posts: 25 | Registered: Jun 2014
downnout2014
New Member
Member # 43860
Default  Posted: 11:32 AM, July 7th (Monday)

"She claims it last year" = she claims it ended last year.

Posts: 25 | Registered: Jun 2014
Commanche1
Member
Member # 39692
Default  Posted: 11:42 AM, July 7th (Monday)

"She has been truthful about the affair," " She also claimed to only kiss him, but did not want to go further." downnout2014 You stated she went on birth control, that fact doesn't jibe with the statements she's making. be prepared for trickle truth, don't let you desire for recovery cloud your reality

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jun 2013
downnout2014
New Member
Member # 43860
Default  Posted: 3:31 PM, July 7th (Monday)

Thanks Commanche,
I am expecting trickle truth. Do you think it's because she's still playing games or simply realizes the marriage will be over if she told the truth?

Posts: 25 | Registered: Jun 2014
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 3:52 PM, July 7th (Monday)

Down and out2014

Are you telling me she is admitting that she had an affair that ended last year and that she only kissed? Please tell me you do not believe that!

What has happened with exposing to wife of OM.

You have caught her lying , presented it to the MC and she is now telling you they only kissed.
You need to tell her in no uncertain terms what will happen if there is any morebTT and that you are giving her ONE more chance to come clean with the truth to you or that is if.

You are in big trouble if you believe what she is telling you


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
downnout2014
New Member
Member # 43860
Default  Posted: 8:48 AM, July 8th (Tuesday)

The full truth came out after she knew I was serious about ending the marriage immediately. She displayed real remorse and shame. I told her that I will leave if she didn't put in the work necessary to save the marriage. She states that she wants to remain married and willing to make the necessary changes. I believe her, but still need to protect myself.

Any thoughts about next steps?


Posts: 25 | Registered: Jun 2014
LonelyHusband
Member
Member # 34145
Default  Posted: 8:59 AM, July 8th (Tuesday)

You're still being played.

The hug has turned into a kiss. The kiss will turn into a fondle. The fondle will turn into sex.

You don't need birth control for kisses.

Your wife is trickle-truthing you.


Next steps

1. No contact letter
2. Change jobs to get away from the AP
3. IC for her
4. Complete transparency. No more secrets.

I would also, and some disagree with this, file for divorce. You can file and just let it hang in the air. She needs to understand that the DEFAULT action will be divorce. She's fighting to stop the divorce finishing, not stop stop it starting. Divorce is the normal and reasonable outcome of infidelity. Everything about her actions now should be demonstrating why you should make an exception to this.

[This message edited by LonelyHusband at 9:02 AM, July 8th (Tuesday)]


BS ( me) 41
fWS (OktoberMest) 35
D day #1 29/10/2011, D day #2 15/112011, D day #3 15/03/2012
Reconciling.
“It’s better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all”, is inadequate consolation when you vacuum up a child's hamster'

Posts: 1290 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: UK
downnout2014
New Member
Member # 43860
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, July 8th (Tuesday)

Thanks LH,
Items 1-3 has already been done. Item 4 is a part of my demands as noted earlier. I'm sticking to my guns and we will move forward only if she fights for it. At this point, I have come to the realization that if I am still being played, this will end and my life will go on without her. Her actions and willingness to repair our marriage will dictate whether we can move on or not. The first time around, I made the common mistakes as discussed on this site. No misatkes will be made this time around. My aatorney is well aware of my situation and is ready to act and she now knows this.

Posts: 25 | Registered: Jun 2014
downnout2014
New Member
Member # 43860
Default  Posted: 1:47 PM, July 8th (Tuesday)

LH - can you explain your footer to me? You had three D-days?

Posts: 25 | Registered: Jun 2014
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 1:54 PM, July 8th (Tuesday)

downnout2014

You MUST get #4, Transparancy TOTAL

And you should file for divorce. She needs to know the next fuck up will absolutely be her last. You can stop it at any time but it means the clock is ticking on her to do what needs to be done.

And i would not waste any more time on MC that she has lied to for a long time until you believe there is something to save.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
downnout2014
New Member
Member # 43860
Default  Posted: 2:38 PM, July 8th (Tuesday)

BH, I am not returnng to marriage counselling until I believe that she is meeting my demands (which include 1-4, and IC for her). No more therapy talk for us at this time, it has to be action/change in behavior...and of course honest communication between the two of us.

Posts: 25 | Registered: Jun 2014
Splitter
Member
Member # 43957
Default  Posted: 2:39 PM, July 8th (Tuesday)

Downnout, your story has really touched a nerve for me - reminds me so much of some bad experiences I had with my ex. In the end, I'm not sure she did cheat on me with her office friend - it was some other random dude that broke the camel's back, as it were. Point is that her messed up perspective on sexual boundaries, her willingness to lie, and her constant need for attention from men spells disaster for monogamous relationship. No matter how much I might love her, these qualities make it impossible to continue with her. I'm not saying its the same with your situation, just sharing my experience.

As for staying together for the kid's sake, I'm not sure about that. I come from a broken home - really bad divorce that left a great rift in my relationships with both parents. But worse than the divorse was the way it was before - it was unspoken but we all lived under a spectre of my Dad's infidelity and I wouldn't wish that on any child.

Best of luck

[This message edited by Splitter at 3:15 PM, July 8th (Tuesday)]


35 yr old Canadian guy.

Posts: 59 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Eastern Canada
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 2:49 PM, July 8th (Tuesday)

Down n Out

Good to hear. You stay strong brother. You are on the right track


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
downnout2014
New Member
Member # 43860
Default  Posted: 3:01 PM, July 8th (Tuesday)

Splitter & BH, I guess the one and only positive about being burned the first time is that I now refused to be burned again. I have come to the conclusion that kids will be better of with a happy dad, instead of a miserable one. They will be even better with a strong mom and dad, but it's now up to her. I guess my type A is kicking in through the pain.

Posts: 25 | Registered: Jun 2014
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 3:07 PM, July 8th (Tuesday)

The important thing is you took the advice and you have a CHANCE of something positive happening.

There are some on here now that will get burned again because they are not strong enough to do what you have done this time.

You should keep posting for a couple of reasons.
(1) You still may need some more advice
(2) Your experience in dealing with this shit sandwich may be able to help others like you were helped. There is nothing more reassuring to someone who has JUST FOUND OUT , then hearing from someone who it just happened to and who has done the right things.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
needfriendshere
Member
Member # 43350
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, July 8th (Tuesday)

Downnout2014,
I read what you have been going through for the first time today and have some thoughts on it all.

First of all, you NEED to tell the OW. And be prepared for some needed fireworks. My FWH's AP's H actually called my H and chewed him out. And I was really glad he did. It opened my H's eyes to the extent of the hurt that his actions caused. The sad thing is their marriage did not last. Ours has - so far...

Also, this trickle-down confession stuff is bull-shit! It'll wear you out. My H did the same thing. And each new piece of the puzzle set us back 10 steps and stabbed me through the heart all over again. The truth will always come out. Tell her to just get it over with - that if you find out about one more lie, that is it! I had to give my H that ultimatum and then all the crap they did just came spilling out. And, yes, it hurt like hell to hear it. But we dealt with it all - once and for all. And now we are moving forward.

I never did start the D process and I'm glad I didn't. But my H, although what he did completely devastated me, has been remorseful, has been getting help, and has been more than making up for what he did. He has NC with the AP (although she does contact me now and then) and I believe him when he says that the thought of her and what they did now disgusts him.

I hope this helps! Sorry for the long tirade. It's still pretty new for me too. Hang in there! You have found a safe and VERY helpful place here. (((Downnout2014)))


Me: early 50's
WH: early 50's
Married: 23 years
DS: 21 years old
Other DS: 18 years old
D-day: 2/14/2014
H's AP lasted 6 years, but we are both trying hard to R.

Posts: 445 | Registered: May 2014
downnout2014
New Member
Member # 43860
Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, July 8th (Tuesday)

BH,
I will keep posting to help others, and also to help myself. You guys have given me strength to cope with this mess. I wish I had found this site a few years ago.

needfriend, I told the OW and she was just shocked. I also sent her the evidence. I left the door open for her to contact me. You are right about the trickle truth, it sucks. I am happy to hear that you are reconciling and would also like your feedback in the future.


Posts: 25 | Registered: Jun 2014
needfriendshere
Member
Member # 43350
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, July 8th (Tuesday)

Downnout,
I am here any time you need an ear. Be prepared - the OW just may call your wife! Like I said, I was really glad the BH called my H.
Let us know how things go!!


Me: early 50's
WH: early 50's
Married: 23 years
DS: 21 years old
Other DS: 18 years old
D-day: 2/14/2014
H's AP lasted 6 years, but we are both trying hard to R.

Posts: 445 | Registered: May 2014
Topic Posts: 57