SurvivingInfidelity.com Forums
Just Found Out
User Topic: Still Cheating At Work
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 9:35 PM, July 8th (Tuesday)

Back in Feb, I realized my wife was going beyond not having sex with me, she was becoming completely detached.
I started getting "that feeling".
She was working late almost every night, stopped wearing business clothes to work and only wore tight we dresses and short dresses, stopped letting me see her cell phone, was completely detached, etc.
I knew she was cheating, but I had no proof. MY Stomach was in a knot 24/7 and I was obsessed. All I could think about was getting proof. I cried constantly whenever I was alone.
I lost 45 lbs in one month.
I wasn't just afraid that she was having s n affair, I thought it was with her boss, and he'd help her get a good lawyer and take my kids.
I finally told her that I felt like she was cheating on me or she was going to leave me. She responded by lashing out at me and yelling about how much pressure she was under at work.
After months of suffering and looking for proof, I found out a bout seamen detection kits.
After a couple of her garments tested positive (we hadn't had sex in months), I scraped up enough money to send a pair of her underwear to an accredited lab.
It came up positive.
We had an argument and I couldn't hold back; I told her I had proof, but I didn't tell her what the proof was. At first she admitted to an online thing with a guy who works for her company. I told her I had proof of a physical encounter.
She finally admitted to an affair, but lied about who it is with. I confronted her and she told me another guy.

We have two children and I want to stay married, but I can't help but think she is still cheating. The alleged guy worked in her huge office building but not with the compliant she works for.

She started acting like her old self again (good wife and mother) however, on the few occasions we have sex, it's mostly on a weekend, in the morning (when it'll be over faster), and she just lays there. Doesn't even try to have an orgasm. She barely even touches me. Awkwardly tries to figure out where to put her hands.

We're in couples counseling, but not dealing with my issues and the affair. Mostly "moving forward".

If our sex life wasn't such a joke, I wouldn't still be as suspicious, and still hurting.

At this point I don't know what to do.

I don't want a divorce, for many reasons which I'll write later.
I just want this pain to stop.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
kiki1
Member
Member # 37184
Default  Posted: 10:07 PM, July 8th (Tuesday)

Deceived guy
im sorry your in such pain. We know that well here. It sounds as if your wife is still involved in her affair. Im sorry. This happened in my situation as well. Look to the upper left of the screen there is a yellow box. Tons of good info there to help you.
Eat and drink. You have to be healthy for whats ahead of you. Post and read here also. Her actions are more telling than her words so watch closely. Again im sorry your here and why. But this is a great place for help and support
hugs

Posts: 701 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: new york
movingforward777
Member
Member # 6850
Default  Posted: 10:23 PM, July 8th (Tuesday)

He welcome to SI...the place no one wants to be but are glad they found!
If you know that your wife is having sex with other men, stop having sex with her until you and she are tested for sexually transmitted diseases. Many people on her have been unfortunate enough to contract something from their spouse/partner because they were off having unprotected sex with other people.
Right now you need to take care of yourself. You have solid proof that she is cheating. You need to make her shit or get off the pot. It's time she made either a commitment to you and your marriage, or left. I know that sounds harsh, but right now it sounds as if she is what is called "cake eating".....continuing to carry on with other men, and giving you the bare minimum of time and attention to keep you on the string too. It's not fair to you to be put in that position. It's time to get an honest answer out of her regarding where she stands on your marriage and the future. If you don't she can string you along for a long, long time and cause you more pain.
There are many great articles in the Healing Library here that will give you some guidance about things.
Come often, post lots..the people here will give you love, support and good advice because they are either there with you or have been there themselves.....HUGS


You can't reach for anything new if your hands are still full of yesterday's junk.......Louise Smith

Posts: 4846 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: Ontario
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 11:13 PM, July 8th (Tuesday)

Thanks movingforward and Kiki.
She did get tested and she's doing everything else right. In fact, I just had an operation and when not at work, she's taking care of me.
The sex is what worries me now. I think she wants to have this family life, but she's still having an affair and only letting me have sex to pacify me.
I am s stay-at-home dad with s part-time job. I used to be the breadwinner but when we had planned our move eight years ago, she begged me to let her go back to work. I switched places w with her because I've always been supportive.
If our sex life was normal, I wouldn't have even look for her cheating again.
We are in debt, I gave up my career, and we have kids. Even if I wanted to get divorced, I can't imagine getting one now.
I've never cheated in my life however.....
If I trusted the Ashley Madison website, I'd look for my own affair. Like I said I d, she's acting normal now in all other aspects of our family life.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 11:14 PM, July 8th (Tuesday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
kansas1968
Member
Member # 32214
Default  Posted: 12:15 AM, July 9th (Wednesday)

Like all of us, our self-esteem plunged to the basement when we found out about an affair. It sounds like that is exactly where yours is. I also believe she is still involved in the affair or at the very least, she is still in the fog. You having an affair is not the answer but I understand totally you feeling like it might be. Anything to make yourself feel worthy and desirable at this point.

I don't think your wife wants a divorce and that is why she is pacifying you at this point, but the sex says a lot. She does not seem interested in you and that points to her mind at least being elsewhere.

You need to be in MC and dealing with the affair. Until that is dealt with, you can not move forward.

You sound miserable and it doesn't sound like she is in the game. Has she given you all of her internet passwords, email, cell phone, etc.

Infidelity is a betrayal and it takes a lot of time and a lot of work to heal from it. She would probably just like to forget about it. There are lots of articles in the healing library that can help you and there are a lot of good books. So sorry. The pain is really unbearable, I know.


Me - BS
Him - FWS
DD - December 14, 2010
Married 43 years 1/14/2011
Affair lasted 7+ years
Affair had been over for 2 years before I found out. OW sent me a letter.

Posts: 1320 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Kansas
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 12:58 AM, July 9th (Wednesday)

Thanks Kansas
I don't have any passwords. When I mentioned in couples therapy, she is not participating in sex, she became defensive and said it was because I lost lot of weight and she needs to get used to it
If I ask for passwords it will end in a fight, I'm sure.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 1:15 AM, July 9th (Wednesday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
stronger08
Member
Member # 16953
Default  Posted: 2:11 AM, July 9th (Wednesday)

Her lack of interest in sex is most likely due to the fact that she is mourning the loss of her A.
She is just going through the motions with you my man. While sex or the lack thereof can be one of many signals of an ongoing A, it certainly is not the only indicator. While I understand your concern about the A possibly being active. Don't use your sex life as the only sign. An informed BS is what you need to become. Use any and all means of verification to ensure the A is over. Don't think for one second she has any right to privacy. The day she decided to cheat is the day she lost that right my man. "Trust but verify" is a mantra here at SI. I suggest you use it. To be honest I'd be more concerned that she is mourning the A and/or the OP. To me that signifies she has a deep emotional connection that will not be easy to break. She is still is the proverbial fog and R can not go forward while she is in it. Is she in IC ? If not, I suggest it be one of your demands of R. She needs to understand that the A was not a reality based event. She needs to understand the stupidity of it and that it is/was not a romantic thing. Its imperative that you insert some reality into her fantasy now. Perhaps asking her to leave until she gets her head together is a good idea. She needs to experience the consequences that an A brings. And if that's the way you go, keep in mind that you can not support her in any way, shape or form.

I'd also suggest you reconsider the employment status here. Its apparent she has abused your gift to her in allowing her to work while you stay home. I would at the very least test the waters of finding a job. She can not be trusted right now. Her reluctance to be honest is another indicator she has no remorse at this time. She needs to tell you exactly who the OM is and what she plans on doing about him. Given her current mental status and the fact she still is at the very least emotionally attached to the AP. I don't think R is possible right now. Its best you prepare yourself for D. That does not mean you have to D her right now. But positioning yourself in that direction is a smart move. I understand your hurting, but protecting yourself and your kids is a priority right now. You cant force her to change. You cant nice her back into the M. She needs to take those steps on her own. And so far she has not. I wish you luck brother.


You cant eat soup with chopsticks.

Posts: 5904 | Registered: Nov 2007
blindsided14
Member
Member # 43266
Default  Posted: 5:44 AM, July 9th (Wednesday)

DG - I feel for you dude. You've made a great decision in joining and posting. You'll get some amazing advice from folks here who have been through this and can help guide you. You'll have a forum to vent.

I'm still new, but have some thoughts:

1 - your wife's A is NOT YOUR FAULT. I can see that you're down on yourself. Understand this: you did nothing to deserve this. Your wife has issues she needs to fix. I have a job. I am fortunate enough to make enough to support my wife (she's a SAHM). She cheated on me with multiple men. She had a LTA.

While you haven't said this outright I want to make sure that you are not blaming yourself or your stay-at-home status for your wife's infidelity.

The A is about the fucked up choices she made. The A is 100% on her.

Repeat out loud if you need to (frequently until you believe it and anytime you are down): THIS IS NOT MY FAULT. I DIDNT DESERVE THIS. I DESERVE BETTER.

2 - You say that, other than the awkward sx, your wife is doing everything right.

With all due respect, that's BS. She is not giving you full transparency. That is necessary to rebuild trust.

You deserve to feel safe in your relationship. Your wife does not deserve privacy. She gave up that right when she decided to fck another man.

3 - Take care of yourself. Make sure you are eating right and sleeping. And drinking lots of water. If you're recovering from surgery this is crucial.

4 - See a lawyer for a free consult re: what you could expect the outcome to be if you divorce. Knowledge is power. Fear is crippling. Empower yourself brother.

5 - Keep posting and reading. I don't post a lot on here about my own sitch, but I read and then read some more and then continue reading even more.

Without the wisdom of this community I would be toast.

Others will come along and give you good advice on how to deal with your W (who seems to be, at best, mourning the loss of her A and perhaps still continuing the A).

Hang in there dude. It's going to be a long journey. Maybe your M will survive, maybe it wont. Either way, you'll come out of this a strong and better man (as will I).



I guess it's game on . . .

Posts: 58 | Registered: Apr 2014
jjct
Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:21 AM, July 9th (Wednesday)

deceivedguy))) I'm sorry.
You need to hear this brother.
You're hanging your self respect with the rope of your desire to "stay married".

Turn the energy of that desire into "the desire to be a whole, strong, respected man".
You cannot demand respect.
You command it.

How you begin is by respecting yourself.
STOP having sex.
It's a common thought - having a revenge affair - do not. It will hurt you. BADLY.

If bringing up *your truth* (asking for passwords for instance) will end up in a fight as you say - you need to realize you're being manipulated.

That's right.
She's using your fear to get you to *stuff it*.

It won't work.

You know that we menz automatically respond, as if we're hardwired (pun intended!) - to physical beauty...you know, we're *visual*?
In like manner, have you ever wondered what wimmenz are wired to respond to?
I'll tell you.
Strength.

Not *pleasing them*.
Not *nice-guying* them back into the relationship.

Go grab your ass-kicking boots, they're over there, laying all dusty in the back of the closet.
Lace them on with cold determination and
walk THE fuck away
from her cake-eating
emotional manipulation.

Stand up for yourself.
Tall. Proud.
A faithful man.

Emotional abuse and manipulation?
It stops when you say it stops.

MC (marriage counseling) with an unremorseful spouse is like pissin on a fire - you're gonna get burned.
Don't.

Do this instead:
http://survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp#FAQ11
Do it for you, your healing. To get strong. Not to get her to do this-or-that - it is not a manipulative tool - it is only for you to get centered, healing, and strong.

Grab them damn boots.


Posts: 6833 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 7:07 AM, July 9th (Wednesday)

Sex is like a marriage litmus paper test. Your wife's lack of participation tells you that she does not want sex with you; yet you still persist as if it was a duty she must perform. You need to end physical interaction with your WW for the time being; it is insulting, humiliating and demeaning to you in particular.

Currently she does not love or respect you and is emotionally involved with another man. You are having sex with her knowing she's probably fresh from her lovers bed; your semen detection kit shows you she's also having unprotected sex; exposing you to potential STD's and her possible pregnancy.

You need to end her employment with her work place. Two ways you can do it; get a full-time job yourself and present your wife with a fait accompli; she now has to end her job to stay home with the kids.
Tell HR at her workplace and get her fired for having sex during the workday - worth a try.

I understand you do not wish to divorce then you have two options.
1] Accept her infidelity and sleep separately from your WW until the kids are in their late teens and you can end the marriage. Remember your wife will be getting her sex, affection and emotional validation from her affairs.
2] After your wife has left her employment try and talk things over with a third party, [I presume you cannot afford MC] and analyze your marriage and what you can do to put it right. To regain WW's respect and your value in the relationship you are going to need to be tough and strong; draw firm boundaries and be prepared to handle her animosity and anger. You need to be the decision maker from now on, or she will never see you as a husband she can look up to and feel cared by.

Use SI resources to help you make the right decisions. Keep posting and you have a chance of receiving good advice that will enable you to possibly save your marriage.


Posts: 1864 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 7:49 AM, July 9th (Wednesday)

Everyone is saying what I have suspected. I think she is still having an affair.
In couples therapy, we discussed triggers. As much BS as couples therapy has been, I've been going along w with it. One of my triggers is my wife's change in clothes. She used to wear business clothes to work. After the affair started, she started wearing only form-fitting dresses, and outfits that looked like she was going out on a date (wearing them to work).
We discussed her getting a new wardrobe.
She just left for work wearing one of only two new items o f clothing she just bought. A skirt that can't be longer than 3 inches from her crotch.
I have a birthday coming up in a week. I'm going to try and ride this out until then because I want one more happy day. My kids like to make a big deal out of my birthday.
Then I'm going to demand to see her cellphone and iPad, and maybe laptop (laptop and iPad are from work). If she refuses, I'm going to try and get the guts to say that our marriage won't survive her secret life.
I can't put into words how much MORE this is making my stomach twist. I'm practically hyperventilating.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 8:12 AM, July 9th (Wednesday)

Why wait for the bday? Take action now!!

Sorry you are here deceivedguy but welcome to SI. I would agree that your WW is still actively involved in the affair right in front of you. I don't know if you have seen these posts yet, but please read if you have not:

Read up on the 180 so that you can decide if you want to use it later. It is designed for you to detach and can be found under BS FAQ here:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp#FAQ11

And more 180 info under the target thread here:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=232785

I would also recommend reading these target threads in the Just Found Out forum:

Tactical Primer
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=235051

Great Posts for Newbies to Read
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=361740

Boundaries and Consequences 101 for all new BS
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=385631

Before You Say Reconcile...
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=406548


This is because your wife is still actively involved in her A.
For the foggy, unremorseful, cake eaters:
20/20 Hindsight: What I should have done when I J F O
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=446349


Please read these as well as prep for any sort of upcoming confrontation that you may have with her:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/confrontation/no_contact.asp

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/confrontation/boundaries.asp


Also, if she's serious about R, which there's no way she is at the moment, some people have printed these out and handed to their WSs.

How much does my BS hurt? ...
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=327446

Things that every WS needs to know
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=324250

Affair Confessions - Everything to learn in 1 Post
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=474387


There's a lot to read there, but there's a lot of useful information in there that you can use now!! Don't wait. The longer this drags out the worse it will be for you and your family. She needs to get out of that job as well or the A is just going to continue on.

Very sorry you are hurting so badly. Keep reading. Keep posting. We are here for you.

yop


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2463 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 8:58 AM, July 9th (Wednesday)

When I mentioned in couples therapy, she is not participating in sex, she became defensive and said it was because I lost lot of weight and she needs to get used to it
IMO, that is a lie. The defensive attitude is enough to tell you it is a lie.

Is couples therapy like MC in this case, if so, what does your MC say about your wife having an affair. Why does the MC even see you while she is having an affair.

It does sound like the affair continues, since there have been no consequences, why shouldn't her affair continue.

Where did she and this OM meet for their affair? If you want to know, you should consider getting a VAR and a gps tracker for her car.

Has your wife sent this OM a No Contact that you have seen?

Do you even know who the OM is? If your wife wont even tell you who she had an affair with, then she has no clue as to what is going on.

Can you start working again, right away. If so, you might consider telling your wife she is to quit her job and you are going back to work.

Your wife should quit her job anyway, considering the affair was with a coworker.

At this time, there has been NO consequences for your wife and she is merrily going on about her life.

Do the 180 and sorry about your birthday at this time, but affairs wait for nothing. Something is always coming up, birthdays, Christmas, anniversary, etc.

Is the OM married that you know of?

You need to start being proactive in this terrible situation instead of reactive. Because being reactive makes you constantly feel like you are out of control and a nobody in the relationship.

Take back control and become proactive.

Talk to a lawyer immediately and find out about all of your rights and what you should be doing at this time.

Your wife is in the fog of an affair and this will get worse until the ends the affair.

If you want to stay married, then your goal is to get the affair ended in any way you can. And become proactive by seeing a lawyer, finding out who the OM is and your wife starts seeing consequences for her actions.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
MindMonkey
Member
Member # 41679
Default  Posted: 9:22 AM, July 9th (Wednesday)

You are letting your WW walk all over you. I get it, affairs turn us men into weak unconfident doormats. You have to understand that your WW doesn't respect you right now, that's why you are being treated so badly.

I 100% believe that a BS is not to blame at all for their WS A. However, once they become aware, they can accumulate blame for not doing what they can to stop it.

Take back control and become proactive.
Talk to a lawyer immediately and find out about all of your rights and what you should be doing at this time.

Serving your wife D papers may just clear the fog pretty quickly. She works...you don't. Her life is going to get miserable if she is no longer allowing in your M. Take away the cake!

I'm so sorry you had the need to find us.



BH, 35, CoD, Military...sober since 6/17/14
FWW, EA/PA (x2) different OM coworkers
Reconciling since 8/1/13
100% ready to file at next dealbreaker...don't test me.

Posts: 209 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: NoVA
allatsea
Member
Member # 38923
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, July 9th (Wednesday)

I haven't got time to write much right now but I've read your post and I feel for you. I have a particular empathy with betrayed men as I am one and have been through the ringer with my WW.

Please read my main posts to gain some perspective as to what you're in for.

All I can say at the moment is that it looks like shes' "gone underground". The affair may well still be active and you are being given enough crumbs to carry on as long as you don't question anything.

Do not let her sweep this under the rug. If she doesn't show true remorse (you need to learn the difference between remorse and regret) then you must detach and make some real decisions for the health of you and your children

message me if you want to


AAS

[This message edited by allatsea at 9:53 AM, July 9th (Wednesday)]


You can't fix crazy. All you can do is document it

Posts: 742 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: UK
Tom67
Member
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 10:02 AM, July 9th (Wednesday)

Hey OP...
Is this other guy married?
You need to tell his wife/girlfriend asap.
If this guy is her boss you need to out him at work.
She has to have consequences if you have any chance of saving this.

Posts: 316 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
Sal1995
Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 10:08 AM, July 9th (Wednesday)

deceivedguy, so sorry you are here man. Read jjct's post again, there is so much wisdom in it.

Your wife has committed a serious marital crime. Now it's time to see if she can do the work it will take to keep you. YOU are the prize. She's a broken, sexually immoral woman.

You need to kick some serious ass, in a strictly figurative sense, of course. Meaning that you set boundaries and enforce them, and make her do whatever it is you need to feel safe. Immediate NC with the OM is a must, changing jobs as soon as it's feasible is also a must in my opinion (some on here might differ), STD tests, change passwords, change cell phone number, block calls, No-Contact letter, and anything else you might need.

She's committing the most unloving act a spouse can commit against her spouse, short of hiring a hit man for the insurance money. Don't take one ounce of her crap, she doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Check out the Healing Library, especially the part about implementing the "180."

Hang in there bro.


Me (BS)-46, WW-43
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling

Posts: 1496 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, July 9th (Wednesday)

Deceived Guy

You have more problems here than I can count, but you have already received some good advice.
First,I think you know you are in an open marriage, but have been too paralyzed or in a denial state to try to help yourself. The skirt your wife left the house in this morning was not intended to be sexy for you.
The MC is taking your money for nothing. She is refusing to do anything to make you feel safe and is probably lying her ass off to the therapist. The fact that this person has not challenged her and brought out the truth is enough reason to stop or change therapists.
You are being humiliated and disrespected daily and I don't know how you can even respond to her knowing she may have had sex with her other lover or lovers right before coming home to you. You are now in what is an"cuckold" relationship.
Now what can you do about it
(1) Do exactly what others have told you and go to her HR Department. As long as she works with AP you will not stop this without blowing up either his work and home life or your WW.
(2) See an attorney immediately and have preliminary divorcee papers drawn up.I think you will find as a stay at hoe dad she will have to pay you just like a man would have to pay a woman who stayed home. Do not tell her you are doing this.
(3) Install a VAR in her car and a GPS also. The techies on here can give you detailed directions on what to buy.
(4) Don't know how you can enjoy your birthday , but after it you need to have a MAJOR confrontation with evidence in hand and divorce papers ready. You can stop that any time you want.
You the. Need to demand, not ask, for
Timeline
Name of AP or others
NO COnTACT- she needs to look for job elsewhere
TOTAL transparency - all so i media
COMMITMENT to you
You have two choices here. Either be disrespected and suck it up and let her do what she wants
Or you can stand up for yourself and yes she might divorce you .
If you do nothing it will NOT get better.she likes it now. She bangs whoever she wants and services you to keep you quiet.
Only you can fix this. She will not do it for you


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 10:31 AM, July 9th (Wednesday)

I want to thank you all again! I will take as many messages, posts, and advice as you can give me. They are slowly empowering me to take control.
the thought of ending this family is killing me. i need to keep reading the suggested material

i can barely type because i had surgery on my right hand, monday and im right handed. it could take up to 12 weeks to heal.
i only have a part time job. not sure what i'll do for money and a place to live, and i dont want to lose my girls!


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Tom67
Member
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, July 9th (Wednesday)

Deceived you will not lose your girls.
She will be paying you child support and spousal support more than likely if you go down the divorce route.
You need to schedule appointments with lawyers asap to know where you stand legally.

Posts: 316 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
steppingup
Member
Member # 42650
Default  Posted: 11:26 AM, July 9th (Wednesday)

My wife acts the same way during sex. What you have to consider is that they feel many feelings about sex that we dont. They feel ashamed they feel uneasy they are not sure what to do, they might even be having a psychological event where they are thinking of their lover and seeing you, they are crossing swords in their mind and since it is possible that they care for you but are not in love with you sex can be just a chore. that is where we are are me and the WW. I had sex with her the other night and as usual since the DD came out, it 100% my effort and zero on her. She doesn't typically try to orgasm and if she does, she does then just heads out to the shower with out a word. If I try to talk about it (the sex) she rolls over and goes to sleep. It sucks, and what is very funny is that when people cheat they never realize how fucked up everything becomes. The fun they had will never compare to the f-ked upness the rest of the world becomes. It never works out well, eveyone always loses.


Her (WW 40s) Me (BH, 40s) very young DS & DD

Posts: 721 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: CALI
Splitter
Member
Member # 43957
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, July 9th (Wednesday)

Deceived, you won't be ending your family by divorcing your wife. You will be starting a new, healthier family. Your children should be free to live without infidelity poisoning their home. They learn about romantic partnerships by watching you and your wife, how you behave together; so make good decisions for them if you can't for yourself.

Best wishes.


35 yr old Canadian guy.

Posts: 59 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Eastern Canada
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

I am going to ask to see her electronics, work ipad, work laptop, cell phone.
she will most likely say no.
Any advice if she says no?

I just read the 180 list. if i were to implement it, should i hold back from asking to see her electronics?

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 2:15 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 2:15 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

What the SI folks are saying that your current marriage problems don't necessarily mean you will divorce. You have to change something or your wife will just continue to cheat far into the future. She has a stable family life with exciting lovers on the side and she likes it. All she needs to do is devalue you, treat you with contempt and blame you for all her problems.

You have to change something.

Sitting around protesting and complaining will not influence your wife to stop cheating. You have to force her hand by presenting her with dire consequences, so she has to backtrack and change her attitude towards her family. She loves her current life; stacks of ego-stroking validation, exciting sex, passion, romance, flirting etc. Why in heavens name should she stop? Unless you force her to end her cheating. Therein lies your problem and posting on SI is a good way to find a solution.


Posts: 1864 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 2:23 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

She absolutely will say no

At that time you tell her you are not continuing in a marriage with three or more people .
if she does show you it means she is using a burner phone or other e mail
You have let this go on too long and it IS going to be more difficult to stop it.
She is going to refuse to cooperate at all until you see an attorney and she sees some consequences so be prepared for a lot of denial or outright refusal to discuss.
In my opinion you really do not need her electronics to head for an attorney. it will keep going on in the meantime. She has such little respect or fear of consequences from you that she dresses in her 'fuck me' clothes and parades right out in front of you.
You are in for a big fight and if you pursue it with the hope of nicing her back you can forget it.
If you are not ready for war, you need to go to IC yourself and hope they can help you how to live in an open marriage.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Brandon808
Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

she will most likely say no.
Any advice if she says no?
That''s up to you really. The question is what are you prepared to do? How far you prepared to go? Are you willing to risk losing the M to save it?

Bottom line is that if your WW isn''t willing to be transparent and help your healing then you won''t have genuine R.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 4118 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 2:27 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

We just had an argument over the phone. i was blown away at the fact that, after all of our discussions about triggers, she wore a tiny skirt to work this morning.
She used to wear business attire, then after the A, she wore social clothes that made her look good. Sexy clothes.
She wanted to know why i was upset when she left the house and i told her.
Our discussion led to talking about how, now that we are having sex again, she is not participating at all. her previous excuse was the fact that i lost a lot of weight. I confronted her on that BS and she changed it to "i need to make an emotional connection with you again.".
ugh.
I was going to ask to see her electronics when she got home tonight. She will probably say no, leaving me to make some choices.
INSTEAD, should i just do the 180 plan?
I think I can handle it.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Sal1995
Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

I am going to ask to see her electronics, work ipad, work laptop, cell phone.
she will most likely say no.
Any advice if she says no?

Yes, hire a divorce lawyer. "No" ain't an option, my friend. It's like your kid saying no. She's behaving like a spoiled, selfish, immoral teenager. Right now, you're the only adult in the relationship, in an emotional sense. You're the one who has been betrayed, humiliated, and emotionally abandoned.

Her way of doing things has left your marriage on the brink of ruin, so now she needs to play by your rules.

What's the most you can lose - a cheating wife? It's better to insist on a transparent, faithful wife.

You deserve better than this. Gently...grow a pair. No simply isn't an option.


Me (BS)-46, WW-43
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling

Posts: 1496 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
naivegirl
Member
Member # 14234
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

I think you need to ask her to see it and look over the cell phone bills. You should also have all her passwords. If she says no or delays then you have your answer. After that detach and implement the 180.


Me BS 39
Him WH 38

D-day #1 Jan 31 2007
D-Day #2 March 25 2007
Roll on Roll on Roller Coaster
We're one day older and one step closer
Roll on there's mountains to climb
Roll on we're on borrowed time
-Kid Rock

Working on Re


Posts: 1744 | Registered: Apr 2007
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 2:37 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

I'm looking for an attorney. Maybe i should wait to see the electronics until i secure a lawyer. Do the 180 list until then, and try to detach in the meantime.
any thoughts?

thanks, everyone. i dont know any of you, but im starting to feel empowered, little by little.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 2:44 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

I personally think you need to do both. Ask her to see it. Explain why complete transparency is needed in order for any sort of R to happen. If there is no transparency, then you know she is still actively involved in the A. Tell her she shattered all trust and it's her responsibility to re establish that trust. She has to hand them over without saying let me think about it, walking away and deleting everything. If she does not show it to you on the spot, let her know that you have your answer. If she hesitates and seems like she might, give her a gentle nudge and tell her your in the process of buying software that will restore all deleted texts and emails. Yes, there is software out there that will do that for you. Not 10% effective but it will do the job. If she still doesn't give to you on the spot, let her know that she has given you her answer and that she is still actively involved in her A.

Progress with the attorney no matter what to at least get the ball rolling. It can be stopped at any time.

AND do the 180.

ETA - look for that software that is compatible for your wife's type of phone. Start now.

[This message edited by yearsofpain25 at 2:45 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)]


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2463 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 2:45 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

Deceived,

YOU ARE WEAKENING.!!!

The 180 is fine.


THE CONFRONTING AND DEMANDING TRANSPARENCY comes first!!!

You will not win this without arguing.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Brandon808
Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 2:45 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

Maybe i should wait to see the electronics until i secure a lawyer. Do the 180 list until then, and try to detach in the meantime.
any thoughts?
Yeah, don''t wait. Get an attorney now. Supposing your WW does let you see her electronics. You still had to ask. She still dressed in a way that triggered. I get that you don''t want to dismiss any positive signs. However, you don''t want to put so much significance into any given gesture that you don''t consider all of the other things she is or is not doing to help your healing.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 4118 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
norabird
Member
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 2:46 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

Take it one step at a time. Just keep moving forward. Don't let her be able to continue dictating the terms. You can do this--and you must.


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4235 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 2:59 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

Deceived.

If i were you when she walks in and puts her purse down, i would not say a word. I would walk over, take her cell phone (DO NOT ASK FOR IT- she is going to say NO and delete anything on it once you ask).

i would then get in the car and tell her you are going to the phone store or Best Buy Geek Squad to get everything opened up. Her reaction will immediately tell you what is on it.

You need a shock and awe approach to her. The meeker you are, the more she will try to intimidate you.

I would take a stiff drink if you drink and get my brass balls out and let her have it starting by wanting to know why she is going to work all of a sudden dress like she is going to a club to get picked up.

She has NO RESPECT for you. You must change that no matter how pissed she gets. if she does not get pissed you have not done your job.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 2:59 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

Deceived.

If i were you when she walks in and puts her purse down, i would not say a word. I would walk over, take her cell phone (DO NOT ASK FOR IT- she is going to say NO and delete anything on it once you ask).

i would then get in the car and tell her you are going to the phone store or Best Buy Geek Squad to get everything opened up. Her reaction will immediately tell you what is on it.

You need a shock and awe approach to her. The meeker you are, the more she will try to intimidate you.

I would take a stiff drink if you drink and get my brass balls out and let her have it starting by wanting to know why she is going to work all of a sudden dress like she is going to a club to get picked up.

She has NO RESPECT for you. You must change that no matter how pissed she gets. if she does not get pissed you have not done your job.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 4:33 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

You all are really good at reading me. I was,discussing this with a friend of mine and she asked what it would take for me to get angry with my wife. Do I ever show anger?

I haven't showed that side of me. Even when I got her to admit to the affair, I was angry, but completely rational.

I have been scared to death of losing my wife. I guess I keep rationalizing her lies and actions.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Nitrobob
Member
Member # 42021
Default  Posted: 6:15 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

You are not being rational. You are being emotional, we all were.

You are afraid of losing your marriage. Gently..it's already gone.

The question is, what is likely to work to get it back, if that is what you want.

Clearly that can't happen until the A ends, and without the cell phone, you don't know.

So rationally, you grab it, leave her yours so she can make calls, and pay someone to break in if you can't guess the password. See a lawyer and file for D. She has to be asking you to stop D, and when that happens you set down the rules.
That is the way this has to be played out. What we are telling you is that this is the only thing that works, and it worked for me. I learned it here, from the same damn people who are teaching you.

You might end up D. Fine. But take your best swing at the ball brother. Women are attracted to strength. As long as you are pining after her because you can't bear life without her, you will lose. That is rational.


Me 50 WW 40, 3PA, 1EA over single summer 7/13-9/13, DDay 10/13
M 9 years,together 12, in R mode

James Russell Lowell — 'Whatever you may be sure of, be sure of this, that you are dreadfully like other people.'


Posts: 159 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 6:32 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

You are not being rational. You are being emotional, we all were.
You are afraid of losing your marriage. Gently..it's already gone.

The question is, what is likely to work to get it back, if that is what you want.

Clearly that can't happen until the A ends, and without the cell phone, you don't know.

So rationally, you grab it, leave her yours so she can make calls, and pay someone to break in if you can't guess the password. See a lawyer and file for D. She has to be asking you to stop D, and when that happens you set down the rules.
That is the way this has to be played out. What we are telling you is that this is the only thing that works, and it worked for me. I learned it here, from the same damn people who are teaching you.

You might end up D. Fine. But take your best swing at the ball brother. Women are attracted to strength. As long as you are pining after her because you can't bear life without her, you will lose. That is rational.

Well said by nitrobob. read it more than once.
Me 55
WW 45, 3PA, 1EA over 7/13-9/13 DDay 10/13
M 9 years,together 12, in R mode


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
keptmyword
Member
Member # 35526
Default  Posted: 6:37 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

Deceivedguy,

Do I ever show anger?

Your fear, anguish, and heartbreak are suppressing your anger.

Admit to yourself that you are scared, stunned, and heartbroken - and that NONE of this is your fault.

Then, let it all turn to anger. A controlled anger - and use it.

Take on a cold, steely, and determined demeanor.


I have been scared to death of losing my wife. I guess I keep rationalizing her lies and actions.

You have already lost your wife.

The wife you use to know is gone. The person you are legally married to right now has reverted to a fairytale because she can't cope with the reality of herself. She sees herself as a damsel in distress, you as the villain keeping her locked in chains, and the adultery-partner as the knight-in-shining-armor to her rescue.

She will continue trying to keep this alter-world going as long as there are no consequences.

It is long past the time to knock her back to reality.

You must wage a scorched-earth war against her.

Hire an attorney and file for divorce immediately. File for child support, spousal support, and custody of the children.

Put all this in the divorce filing, file it with the court, and have her served AT HER PLACE OF EMPLOYMENT.

When she sees the Notice of Petition for Dissolution of Marriage, signed by a family court judge - she will be cast into a world of REAL consequences.

THEN, and ONLY THEN might you see some actual change.

Get angry and release the fucking Kraken.


I Divorced Her.

Posts: 364 | Registered: May 2012
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 6:38 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

You are afraid of losing your marriage. Gently..it's already gone.
The old marriage is gone. There can be a new and better one. But a lot has to come together in the right way.

But you can never go back, ever. Once this trust has been broken and you have been lied to, you can never go back to the way it was.

I like the idea of exchanging phones with her. You have nothing to hide and according to her, she has nothing to hide.

Maybe all married couples should have an exchange a phone for a day each month.

You do need to find out what is going on, without knowing exactly what is going on, you will be dealing with this in a reactive way and never quite feel like you are in control. And that is a terrible feeling as you now know.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 6:42 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

Deceived

She is NOT going to go for the idea of exchanging phones peacefully because she IS CHEATING. She is NOT going to give you all her passwords because she IS CHEATING. And she IS going to berate you ,accuse, you ,and try to make you feel like a meek idiot.

When she realizes that ain't working anymore you might make some progress.

If she voluntarily exchanges phones with you and does all the other stuff, most of us here will be absolutely amazed.

let us know


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 6:59 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

Deceived, you have to assume the affair is continuing and her defensive posturing will not stop.

You have to get the affair stopped now, at all costs. You need to catch her in the act or get something that will make her just stop the defensive posturing crap and the anger game.

She admits to an affair but won't even give you the guy's name. That is about as disrespectful as it gets.

You have already caught her in an affair and she continues to treat you this way. You have to find out who the affair is with.

You already had solid proof and that didnt do any good. You need to know who this affair is with.

If this OM is married, you can blow up the affair.

Your wife is living in fantasy land now. Either way, nothing good can happen to you unless you get this affair stopped.

Is there anyone of her coworkers that you can call and "gently" ask who your wife has been friendly with at work.

That is exactly how I finally got my proof. I called a guy at my wife's work and just asked him who my wife had been friendly with and he gave me a name. And that was that.

Can you follow your wife? Does she come home late from work much?

I still don't understand about this couples therapy. Your therapist never talks about your wife having an affair.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
swizzlestick03
Member
Member # 30102
Default  Posted: 7:40 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

Deceived -

Let's look at this a different way. Most of us here have a ton of hindsight experience so it is easy for us to be able to tell you what is going to happen from a BTDT (been there, done that) perspective.

But from someone 4 years out and completely healed - she has already lost YOU. Yes, you have lost something you thought you had as well, but when the shock of it all starts to melt away, you will realize that it is actually she who lost, not you. Right now, you are losing a selfish, petulant CHILD who only cares about herself and really doesn't think a thing about anyone else. When you get yourself steady again, you will see all that she lost - a stand up, WORTHY man who does right by his family and himself. A man who respects his marriage and vows, and his girls. A man who put his wife and family's needs and wants above his own, with no qualms about doing so.

I can say, 4 years out, that would be a heck of a thing to lose. So right now, while it feels like you have lost something (which I agree, you have, but maybe you've lost more than you've considered, which is a VERY good thing, all things considered!) it is really she who has lost everything.

Back to practical matters. She is not remorseful and she is actively cheating. If she isn't crying snot bubbles and doing whatever.it.takes to right this ship, there's a pretty good chance she is still actively cheating. As much as you want to nice her back, or try to believe her, one thing that will help you take control of this situation is looking at what you want that you can make happen.

1. You want her to stop and be the wife you thought you had. Unfortunately, you cannot make it happen. She is showing you who she is today - believe her. That doesn't mean someday she can't improve and change from who she is right now, but today--she is a lying liar who lies.

2. You don't want to disrupt what you thought you would always have. Too late. She has already done that. Now is the time to make a new plan of what you want going forward.

One of the things I roll over and over in my head when I think about the absolute bomb that was dropped on my life 4 years ago is how I wish I would have saved myself first. I was so desperate to hang on to the sham of a marriage I thought I had that I went against my gut instincts in the beginning. My biggest regret about that time was listening to friends and family who thought they had my best interests at heart which went against every fiber of my being. Even typing this out 4 years later, fully reconciled and very happy, my stomach is absolutely churning with the same feelings I had then.

So Deceived - put your own oxygen mask on first. You cannot make her change right now. All you can do is change your behavior and reactions to her absurd behavior. She wants to dress like a clubbie teenager and go flit about with her boyfriend? Great-she certainly can do that - from her own apartment. She wants privacy on her devices? Have at it - but not on your watch. You cannot demand she show you respect, but you certainly can command it. She will only treat you this way as long as you allow it.

It was only when I finally realized that I had to be willing to walk away from everything (and did!) that he realized exactly what he lost. You are worth fighting for, and don't settle for an ounce less of fight than you deserve.


Me: BW-33
Him: WS-32
D-Day #1: 16 August 2010
D-Day #2: 16 January 2011
One smallish kiddo.

Posts: 572 | Registered: Nov 2010
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 7:45 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

I officially ended the couple's therapy tonight. She agreed.
She cleaned her phone when I first confronted her (before admitting A).
There might be info on that, but I'm more interested in her work iPad. I can't just take that, though. Legally, it would be a disaster for me.
If she says no, I'm going to say it's over. Prior to joining this site, I wouldn't have been able to do that.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 7:51 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

Swizzlestick, wow.
That was an amazing way to look at this.
I wish I had found this site months ago!


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
swizzlestick03
Member
Member # 30102
Default  Posted: 7:51 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

Deceived-

What is on the iPad you need? Proof that she is a lying liar who lies? I can tell you that!

Seriously-you don't have to put yourself through that just to come to the same conclusion. She is still actively cheating. It is going to take some serious consequences before she realizes just how far she's gone down the rabbit hole.

Save yourself. Seeing more crap you already know isn't going to change the outcome.

Swizz


Me: BW-33
Him: WS-32
D-Day #1: 16 August 2010
D-Day #2: 16 January 2011
One smallish kiddo.

Posts: 572 | Registered: Nov 2010
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 7:52 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

Deceived Guy

She did not even argue about stopping the therapy. That should tell you something. Keep pressuring her relentlessly and maybe she will get pissed enough to just spurt it out.

i would start the interrogation by asking her why she has gone from business suits to skirts three inches from her crotch at work, not for you. keep poking at her. She cares and respects you so little she will blab if she gets pissed enough.

Get to the attorney and present her the papers and then tell her to get an attorney asap. by the way, she will be paying for this since she is the financial provider. Get her some immediate consequences.

You can do better than this


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Nitrobob
Member
Member # 42021
Default  Posted: 8:03 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

Not over.

It's a game now. Divorce takes a year. A lot can happen. You just play the hand she dealt you. We are saying play it well. We are not saying shrug your shoulders and give up. People can and do reconcile. As we keep saying, you need to be willing to lose it to save it.

Kind of like asking for a raise. If the boss senses you are going to walk, and especially if you have another job lined up, you are golden. You'll probably get the raise.

Finally, check the credit cards and cell phone records on line and google every number you don't know ( most will be things like nail salon). Once you have the other numbers, go to a site like stumpthemonkey and reverse lookup the rest. You'll find him, and his wife, I promise. If she bought the cell phone you would need the account password, though. If its in your name they will text password to your phone.


Me 50 WW 40, 3PA, 1EA over single summer 7/13-9/13, DDay 10/13
M 9 years,together 12, in R mode

James Russell Lowell — 'Whatever you may be sure of, be sure of this, that you are dreadfully like other people.'


Posts: 159 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest
swizzlestick03
Member
Member # 30102
Default  Posted: 8:04 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

You can do better than this

You absolutely can. Don't ask a liar anything. My favorite expression is "she is just a lying liar who lies."

Don't demand anything. Don't ask her another question. If there aren't snot bubbles begging for another chance and willing to do whatever.it.takes -- isn't isn't what you want.

Go dark. It was only when I completely threw in the towel and truly stopped caring what he did that he finally realized that he really did care. I literally called my fWH on NYE and told him to have at it. I was done. And I meant it, for the first time after months of the same agony you are living.

Again - ask yourself what you are trying to find. You know she lies. You know she cheated. You can (with relative certainty) say she is likely lying and cheating right now. Don't say a word. SHOW her just how that isn't going to work. Nothing has to be permanent. But you have to mean business.

You can do this. It will be hard, but it will be worth it. You are worth it.


Me: BW-33
Him: WS-32
D-Day #1: 16 August 2010
D-Day #2: 16 January 2011
One smallish kiddo.

Posts: 572 | Registered: Nov 2010
swizzlestick03
Member
Member # 30102
Default  Posted: 8:08 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

Not over.
It's a game now. Divorce takes a year. A lot can happen. You just play the hand she dealt you. We are saying play it well. We are not saying shrug your shoulders and give up. People can and do reconcile. As we keep saying, you need to be willing to lose it to save it.

This is 100% true. Divorce papers were filed. He lived in a separate apartment and I kept the marital home. Thousands of dollars completely wasted.

4 years later - completely reconciled. Anything can happen. It isn't over until it is over, and that time isn't today. However, you can certainly speed up the process of ending the lying and nonsense.


Me: BW-33
Him: WS-32
D-Day #1: 16 August 2010
D-Day #2: 16 January 2011
One smallish kiddo.

Posts: 572 | Registered: Nov 2010
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 8:21 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

I was going to confront her with our cellphone bill. "Unbelievably", on the day she said she ended it with her cellphone, the call is not there.
I wanted to have proof that she is still cheating. That's why I was going to tell her I want to see her electronics.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 8:26 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

Deceived

If there is nothing wrong, and she wants to R, she needs to give you access to all the electronics, period.

You are looking for reasons not to confront. Sorry for the 2X4.

Any wife would also be concerned that her husband did not appreciate the way she was dressed leaving the house. i am surprised her business will let her dress like that. I worked all my career for Fortune 100 corporations and no one would be coming into the office with a skirt the length you described and not be sent home.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
swizzlestick03
Member
Member # 30102
Default  Posted: 8:50 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

You have proof. Undeniable proof. What does your gut tell you? It NEVER lies. It took me a long time to really *get* that, but you can always trust your gut.


Me: BW-33
Him: WS-32
D-Day #1: 16 August 2010
D-Day #2: 16 January 2011
One smallish kiddo.

Posts: 572 | Registered: Nov 2010
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 9:25 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

My gut is what led me to first realize there was something going on, months before she admitted to the A.
My gut tells me that there is still something going on.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
swizzlestick03
Member
Member # 30102
Default  Posted: 9:50 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

Ok. So you know you can trust yourself. Remember--right now, she is a lying liar who lies. And rest assured that she is probably deleting every thing knowing she has gone underground with this.

I am a person who wants to know EVERY EFFING DETAIL. It kills me, even 4 years later, that I know there is more to the story that I'll never know. I truly believe that most people in that mindset hold whatever they possibly can tight to the chest and never told unless there is no other choice. That doesn't apply to all, as I know personally there are several awesome WS's here on this forum that bared all. But in my limited experience with my WS, I know he is taking stuff to the grave. I have done just about everything I can think of to get my hands on whatever proof I could. My actual evidence was slim -- I happened to catch his phone passcode out of the corner of my eye and hacked his phone while sleeping. And I only found a limited amount of info, which was extremely disappointing and completely unsatisfying.

Remember that gut feeling I was talking about earlier that even as far out as I am and being healed? It still churns when I talk about this portion of my life and the experience I had.

My point to all of that is no matter what, you aren't going to find what you are looking for. No amount of proof (or non-proof) is going to change the circumstances, which is really what we are all searching for, at least initially.

Don't keep looking. Don't confront. Just go radio silent. Rock the 180 (for YOUR benefit) and start learning to detach. Fake it 'till you make it if you have to. Do not give her the satisfaction of thinking she has 2 men pining and chasing after her. Even while it feels like everything is in shambles -- it will all come back together in the way it is supposed to. Time.

You can do this. You are worth it.


Me: BW-33
Him: WS-32
D-Day #1: 16 August 2010
D-Day #2: 16 January 2011
One smallish kiddo.

Posts: 572 | Registered: Nov 2010
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 10:09 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

swizzle,
you don't think i should confront her about the fact that her alleged breakup phone call isn't on the phone bill?

i figured if i confronted her with that and told her there's nothing left to save since shes still lying, it would help move things along (in either direction she decides to go).

if she is enjoying having two lives (family life and affair life), wouldnt the 180 just encourage her to keep living both lives since there are no repercussions?


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
swizzlestick03
Member
Member # 30102
Default  Posted: 10:45 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

I have replayed this over and over. In 4 years, I must have thought this through at least 5000 times.

In hindsight, and with all of the knowledge I have now, I would have hefty bagged all of his stuff, calmly taken it to her house and left it at her door step with a note that basically said "he is your problem now." I would have filed immediately and let the chips fall where they may. That was my gut instinct. (It is amazing to me that my stomach is BURNING right now telling you this. Trust your gut!) I had well-meaning friends and family that told me not to do either of those things and though they were well meaning, they don't have to live with those choices today--I do.

I think you need to think through how you'd like this to play out. Are you ok with a divorce? That is rhetorical--I don't think anyone goes into marriage thinking, "gee, if it doesn't work out, there's always divorce. No problemo." I mean ok knowing that you aren't going to be the 3rd person in a marriage and are willing to stand up for your vows? You know your wife best, but I will say that we talk a LOT about their being a "cheater's handbook" because there tends to be some common patterns. By and large, the patterns tend to play themselves out accordingly.

In my situation, I took the passive approach. I didn't try to nice him back in the beginning, but I didn't take a stand either. He used that time to continue his affair with his co-worker under the guise of "space apart." My passiveness was perceived as weak by him and he took full advantage of the situation and my vulnerability. After nearly 5 months of utter ridiculousness, I finally snapped. I stood up for myself and said (literally) Eff you. You want a divorce (it had been filed but I wasn't served) - no problem. Our child and I had flights booked back to my home state and I let him know that while I'd covered absolutely everything over the previous 5 months, I was DONE. He was on the hook and he could have me served the second I touched down back in Missouri.

Something in him realized that I was 100% done. And he got it. He made a dramatic change.

I am fully reconciled with him and looking back on it now, it is like I am talking about my encounter with a pod person. It was another lifetime ago.

I tell you that because I want you to know that you don't have to tolerate her cake eating. You can shut that down immediately by going NC with her (no contact) except kids and finances. You are in a great place as a dad and she'd likely be on the hook if you were to divorce. She needs to understand that her choices have consequences, and I don't see the need for you to continue to have to dig for a reason. I also get the need for confrontation and calling her out on her bad behavior. My only word of caution is that she knew the impact this had on you when she was caught originally and she doesn't seem to care. Based on that, I think you will find what happens in the confrontation very dissatisfying. I doubt she is going to come clean and start groveling. She really has no reason to until she knows it is all truly on the line. I know that is hard to realize, but there isn't a lot of incentive for her to change her behavior right now. Confronting her and telling her what you know just shows her how much you know--nothing else. She knows what she is doing.

If you go dark, she no longer knows where things stand. She has to wonder, which causes confusion. When you are confronting, you are showing her that it still matters to you what she does and she takes that as investment, that she still "has you." You know the old saying, "no publicity is bad publicity?" Very similar. Any attention is better than none.


Me: BW-33
Him: WS-32
D-Day #1: 16 August 2010
D-Day #2: 16 January 2011
One smallish kiddo.

Posts: 572 | Registered: Nov 2010
swizzlestick03
Member
Member # 30102
Default  Posted: 10:47 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

And also--why does she get to decide the direction this is going to take? What about your choice? Don't wait for someone else to decide how YOUR life is going to play out. Your life, your decisions. You can't control what she is going to do at all, and you can't rely on a word she says. All you can do is make the best decisions you can based on the information you have available to you. Period. But you certainly don't need to wait for her to decide!


Me: BW-33
Him: WS-32
D-Day #1: 16 August 2010
D-Day #2: 16 January 2011
One smallish kiddo.

Posts: 572 | Registered: Nov 2010
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 11:02 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

well, that didnt go too well.
looks like divorce.
i said i cant take this anymore and she said she couldnt either.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Mercilesslynuked
Member
Member # 42997
Default  Posted: 11:02 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

I apologize for the slight t/j but wow swizzle. Thank you. While I'm all shock and awe on my wayward (have been since day 1), you just solved some of my burning questions. Thank you!
End t/j


Never apologize for having high standards. People who really want to be in your life will rise up to meet them.

D-day 1/6/2014-1/23/2014


Posts: 174 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Colorado
Brandon808
Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 11:14 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

To answer your question about the 180 I can say that many BS before you have asked something along those lines. The 180 works but only as long as you keep in mind that it is about detaching for your sake. It''s not about how the WS reacts to it.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 4118 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 11:18 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

I told her I wanted to see her electronics and she refused. I told her that I have no solid ground to stand on, no reason to believe it's over since the day she supposedly broke it off with the other guy, is not reflected on the phone bill.
She then said I misheard her and she didn't call on her phone, she called on her office phone.
In our last couple's therapy AND this afternoon, she said she called from her phone.
I said I can't take this any more, she said she can't either.
Then she said, okay so lawyers.... how do you want to proceed?
Wow. More pain. I'm in bad shape


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 11:37 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)

It is taking everything in Me to stay downstairs and not join her in bed.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
cluless
Member
Member # 40538
Default  Posted: 12:22 AM, July 10th (Thursday)

DG,

I'm so sorry to hear what you are going through. For her to lash out at you, is a trait I've seen in many of the betrayers (my WH included.)

I'm about 2 years into this process (know about an affair) and 1 year knowing it was sexual.) I got so many lies, it is impossible to believe anything that comes out of his mouth. I quickly read over some of the responses and it seems that you don't want to divorce because of your girls? I don't have to tell you, that is NOT a reason to stay married.

If you would have told me 2 years ago I'd still be living with my husband after finding out about his 18 month affair, I would have told you you were out of your mind. Funny how until it happens to you, you really don't know WHAT you'll do. I've had so many people give me advice, throw him to the curb, try counseling, etc. I did try these things, but when they would say "just move forward" I moved forward right out of their office! Moving forward is a process, and it's not as easy as just telling somebody to move forward. There are real feelings involved here and it HURTS. So in my clumsy way, I thought I'd offer up some "beginner" advice.

1. See if your WW even wants to be married to you. You have to be receptive to how she really feels. After I found out about the affair (not the physical part) my WH and I had hysterical bonding (LOTS AND LOTS) of hot gooey sex. Even after I found out about the affair, it was mindblowing. But we both wanted to try to make our M work. Her laying there (I almost pictured her doing her nails) is not a woman who wants to be there. So ask the question and be prepared for the truth.

2. IF she wants to save the M, then she has to be an open book. She needs to write up a NC letter and she needs to kiss your ass until.... One thing I have found, I may be doing a little better (at least I an function) and he will be mean or yell at me and BOOM I'm right back at D day and I'm feeling all the feelings, thinking about him all over her, everything comes flooding to my mind. If he does nothing to help me stop my spiral, I go down hill fast and we're enemies for quite some time. So it is important that she's gentle with you and right now, I don't care how she feels, it's YOUR turn.

I'm going to start with those 2 since they are biggies. If you want to talk privately, I'll be glad to do so. Hugs to you, don't worry you'll put the weight back on, I lost 35 lbs. in one month and I've gained all but 10 back


WH 57
BS 55 -- Me!
LTA EA/PA 1-1/2 years.
D-Day 8-12, 2nd D-Day 9-13, 3rd D-Day 10-13 (stopped counting tt still coming in)
Married 17 yrs, together 20.
MC & IC has been a JOKE.

Status: We're going to try IC one more time.


Posts: 172 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: Oceanside
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 4:08 AM, July 10th (Thursday)

Thanks
Emotionally, I'm all over the map right now. Last night's fight escalated to divorce talk faster than expected.
I don't want this marriage to end. Not because of my daughter's ( although they are a factor), but because, I don't want to leave my wife.

We just fired our MC because she was working on the "moving on" part without actually addressing the A.
Whenever I'd mention that I felt insecure, like there was something still going on, our MC would say "she has already said she's not having an affair anymore. This is taking a step backwards and we're trying to move forward."

When my wife wakes up, I don't know what I'll do. Since we were talking divorce, I don't know if I can turn back. Or if I should,for that matter.
So confused!


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 5:38 AM, July 10th (Thursday)

Deceived

Can't you see how obvious this is. She did exactly what all of us told you she would do because you ASKED to see her electronics. You are deceiving yourself if you think she cares about your marriage. She cares about being able to continue her affair and is pissed you are trying to interfere.
You are still in denial:
You need therapy, not for at, but to help you get over this absolute submission to her and fear of her.
She does not give a shit if her marriage ends, and it takes two people to be married.
You MUST accept the fact that your marriage is over right now.
She is involved with another man and refuses to stop.
Only when the actual reality sets in is there a chance of anything changing.
She has called your bluff and what you just posted says you are ready to capitulate.
Bullies, and she is bullying you, will not stop until they get punched in nose.
You can keep posting to relieve your anguish but there is absolutely nothing anyone here can tell you that can stand up for you.
My guess is she will probably put on her sluttiest clothes to go to work in to show you how little she cares about you
The advice myself and other have given you still stands
GET TO A LAWYER today


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 6:03 AM, July 10th (Thursday)

Want a divorce – don’t want a divorce…

That is NOT the issue!
Imagine you wake up in the middle of the night and smell smoke. You lie there half-awake and hope it’s your neighbor grilling steak at 3 AM… Then the smoke-detectors start wailing… You are now fully awake and you think that MAYBE the smoke from the neighbors grill set off HIS detectors… Only they are loud… And the smoke smell is increasing… And your neighbor lives way off… And he has never previously fired up his grill in the middle of the night…
You would be the dumbest guy in the world if you hadn’t jumped out of bed right away – right there when you woke up and realized the smoke-smell – and checked what was going on. Not to mention when the detectors went off. Even IF there was a slight chance it was your neighbor. You would probably rush around the house and look for the cause.
Now – You COULD see the flame and realize your house was on fire. But you could also see the smoke crawling from under the door of the laundry-room and DEDUCT that there is a fire in there without actually opening the door and seeing the flames.

At this point – What would you do?

Would you sit down and say “I WISH I didn’t have a burning house” and then ignore the problem in the hope it left?
Would you say “I can’t call the fire department. The water will damage my house” or “Their boots will ruin the carpets”.
Would you try to negotiate with the flames; “Take the laundry room and leave the rest”.

No. Chances are you would start by making sure your most prized assets – you and family – are safe. Then call for help. You would then allow that help to do its job – even IF the water and boots wreck the carpets. You wouldn’t ask them to stop once most of the embers are out. You would expect them to COMPLETELY kill the fire.

Chances are you would do your best to get everyone out. But if someone persisted in running into the burning house then once you have done all you can to prevent it… It’s all you can do. They will go in.
Maybe the fire won’t destroy the house. Maybe it can be saved. Even if it burns significantly then MAYBE there are foundations for a new one.
But maybe it’s only cinders and you move on.

Never ever. Not ONCE in the above scenario does the phrase “I don’t want a fire” help you. It is what it is. It is the reality you are dealing with.

So not wanting a divorce…
Well… What are your options?
Are you willing to accept an open marriage? [This is a real question – many people do go this way.]
Some couples either have a formal or informal agreement that one or the other can have their lovers. It can be a “no questions asked” situation or it can be in the open.
Sound good? Something you could accept?
Well… If not (and I’m assuming you post here because you aren’t happy with the present situation) then what option do you have? You don’t WANT a divorce any more than you WANTED that fire. But it’s been shoved in your path.

To me the work phone/cell phone isn’t the issue.
The issue is that you don’t have a clue who the OM is and your wife has no accountability.
She can be seeing him still and there is no way you can tell. In fact – she IS still seeing him every day at work.

Affairs can be compared to addictions like alcoholism.
At best your WW has reluctantly accepted she shouldn’t drink… So she doesn’t in front of you. Yet she still has an occasional beer (“innocent” workplace interaction with OM) and keeps a bottle or two of vodka hidden (not told OM it was over and committed to NC). Heck – she might even have a shot or two during lunch (quickie in the supplies room). Even IF she’s committed to sobriety then it’s not going to work on her self-will alone. She has too much hidden, she’s bound to fall for temptation.

I’m joining the chorus telling you to stand firm.
I’m saying you have nothing to lose other than your pride and you marriage.

I would consider the following steps:

No lawyer? Well… what is her offer? How can you be sure it’s fair? You two NEED an attorney. Debt, some assets, SAHD, custody… There is too much at stake to amateur it.

Expose the affair.
Talk to stakeholders like friends, parents, pastor, siblings, in-laws… Tell them the marriage is going through difficulties because she is having an affair. Ask them to try to influence her in a positive way for the marriage.
What is her business relationship with the suspected OM? Superior? Same level? Does the company have a HR policy dealing with personal relationships?
How hard would it be for her to get another job?
What can you tell us about the suspected OM? Married? Local?

[This message edited by Bigger at 6:10 AM, July 10th (Thursday)]


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5585 | Registered: Sep 2005
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 6:08 AM, July 10th (Thursday)

Badhurt I know you're right. I feel it. This is much harder than I thought it would be.
I had momentum last night, which was more guts than I could muster in the past.
Now, actually talking (yelling) about divorce, the pain in my stomach cranked up to a new level.

I know she is probably still having an affair, but when it comes to divorce, I can't let go.

I know I look like a weak idiot, but I can't do this.

I'm already seeing a therapist tomorrow. I had scheduled that last week because our MC wasn't addressing my issues, just "moving on"

I'm going to talk to a lawyer today. I don't think I'm going to tell my wife though. I want to wait until I know I what I'm dealing with.
I just had surgery Monday and I'm without use of my right hand (I'm right handed). I've been out of my job field long enough that I'm not going to be making a lot of money (I'm in IT).
I let my wife go back to work and I was a stay-at-home dad for almost. 8 years

I'm scared to death of making this leap.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 6:19 AM, July 10th (Thursday)

Bigger,
The suspected other guy is a large guy who works in building maintenance in her office building. The calls to him no longer show up on her cell Bill however, it totally feels like she's still having an affair. She is now participatory at home, not detached any more. However, she is standoffish with me. Little details, hard to explain.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 6:39 AM, July 10th (Thursday)

It does not matter if he is large, small, or has one leg. if he has a dick, that is your problem.

Bigger put it much more eloquently than me. You reality is what it is. You have taken no steps other than looking at the cell bill. There is a lot more that you can do IF YOU WANT TO.

If you look at a web site of signs your spouse is cheating on you, one of the FIRST things that pop up for women is a change to more sexy mode of dress. GUESS WHAT, THAT ONE IS STARING YOU IN THE FACE EVERY MORNING. So forget about the cell phone bill. She does not need a cell phone. She sees him every day at work.

A divorce is NOT instantaneous. So stop assuming if you file you will be divorced next week. It sends a message that you are done putting up with sitting home while she has sex with other men and taking it gracefully.

How can you possibly crawl into bed with her at night knowing what she is doing??? is that the way you want to continue to live.???? If so, you do not need to get any advice. Just live with the heartache and know it will continue because there will be more other men. You CANNOT escape what she is doing by putting your head under the pillow.
our birthday is coming up. Her present to you will probably be to bang this other guy as your birthday present. Nice birthday huh???

You are either going to accept the open marriage or you are going to do something about it. BIGGER told you, the fire is not going to go out on its own.

You will probably get many more posts here. Do not think you will see too many saying anything tooo mmuch different. Scroll down to previous pages on JFO forum and read one called "12 Days" by Onguard. That is what is in store for you, or if you have half a day read one by SAVEUS.

You are being lied to and cheated on. Get a VAR and put it in her car to gather evidence. She probably talks to someone in the car. DO SOMETHING TO HELP YOURSELF, ANYTHING!!!!

Hoping will not get it done.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 7:20 AM, July 10th (Thursday)

Right now i dont have proof she is still cheating. just intuition. last night almost came down to divorce. before i make that ultimate move, i need physical proof. She knows the method i used to catch her previously (sent underwear to certified lab for semen detection). so, she can avoid that.
i'll look at VAR suggestions


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 7:26 AM, July 10th (Thursday)

You can also put a gPS on her car easily. And if she has an I phone that can also be tracked

Techies. Jump in here and help him


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
MindMonkey
Member
Member # 41679
Default  Posted: 8:01 AM, July 10th (Thursday)

DG,

I've got a repeat offender on my side of the fence...two different APs four years apart.

I got there doing exactly what you are (not) doing. I got definative evidence that she dumped OM#1. Hell we moved 2000 miles away. Boy was I relieved. So relieved that I did NOTHING except thank my WW for staying and doing my best to be a better man so she would love me.

So it comes as no surprise that she found her way into another A.

So what if your WW ended it or not? You know the saying 'once a cheater, always a cheater'? Read it as 'once an unremorseful cheater, always a cheater'. Your WW is an unremorseful cheater. Likely she has taken this A underground, but your bigger concern is the next one (or four)

And FWIW, I found out after the most recent A that my WW had plenty of 'irons in the fire'. All of it was in her FaceBook history that she didn't delete. She wasn't in any sort of A with these guys but she was becoming known as the hot flirty girl around the workplace. You can imagine how many unsavory guys that attracts.

I suspect your WW also has lots of irons in the fire.


BH, 35, CoD, Military...sober since 6/17/14
FWW, EA/PA (x2) different OM coworkers
Reconciling since 8/1/13
100% ready to file at next dealbreaker...don't test me.

Posts: 209 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: NoVA
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 8:10 AM, July 10th (Thursday)

I'm calling a lawyer today for a consultation. I need to know how to handle this.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 8:20 AM, July 10th (Thursday)

Why do you need physical proof?
What sort of proof? Photos? Tape? Signed confessions?
Why? It won’t have any value in divorce.

To me then demanding “proof” is like insisting on opening that laundry door I mentioned despite seeing and smelling smoke and hearing the fire behind it.

Fact is your wife cheated and all that you KNOW has changed is that you are not likely to find semen in her pants. That’s it.
She might not be in active infidelity this moment but her mentality is still infidelity. Until she confirms who the OM is, until she is totally transparent… She’s in infidelity.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5585 | Registered: Sep 2005
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 8:24 AM, July 10th (Thursday)

Your wife is bluffing: she is confident you won't proceed with divorce; you don't have the will or the strength as you have demonstrated in your posts. She doesn't want to divorce; she wants her sexy affair and her marriage; [that short skirt was probably to tempt and excite the OM] and is determined you will not find out the details of her affair. Without the details and money, [you can't afford a PI] you cannot expose her cheating, since you have no absolute proof.

If you can obtain this proof you can expose her affair to your extended family; HR at her place of employment and most importantly the OM's family. I suspect she won't give you access to her phone and I-pad because the OM is married. She does not want her affair to end and she must stop you finding out the details.

So if you won't file for divorce and you don't want an open marriage, then you need to expose and end this infidelity. Your task is obvious; by whatever means, you must find out the OM's name. Can you work with someone at her workplace to find out this information? Pay them if necessary, but find out his name!

When you have succeeded its time for maximum exposure. If its makes her angry tough, but without the divorce threat its your only course of action.

Don't lose sight of your real problem. She has no respect for you and you have no value or status in her eyes. Ultimately you will have to win back that respect or the affairs will continue.


Posts: 1864 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
64fleet
Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 8:26 AM, July 10th (Thursday)

man, I was in your shoes 6 yrs ago. I got a(albeit crappy) job and put the kid in daycare. NEVER rely on someone else, IMHO.

Biggest mistake of my life was losing my career and trusting her.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5405 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 8:56 AM, July 10th (Thursday)

We just fired our MC because she was working on the "moving on" part without actually addressing the A.
Whenever I'd mention that I felt insecure, like there was something still going on, our MC would say "she has already said she's not having an affair anymore.
A MC like that has no business talking to anyone. That is crap!

The MC obviously has never dealt with affairs before with comments like, she has already said and move on. Pure talk of someone who has no clue.

Do not tell your wife about anything you are doing. Do not tell her about your talking to lawyers, your plans or anything.

Anything you tell your wife now can and will be used against you later!

You do need to find out who this OM is. You never mentioned if there was anyone at all you might be able to talk to at her work.

Do you think she meets the OM somewhere that you could catch her at with him.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
Gman1
Member
Member # 40879
Default  Posted: 9:04 AM, July 10th (Thursday)

The best advice I can give if you think the A has gone underground and is still happening is for her to quit her job and find another one. Immediately.

Also, an extremely effective tactic to kill the A once and for all is to expose it to the light of day. Tell the OM's boss, his BS and his friends. It's not your secret. Exposure is the most powerful weapon you have. It may seem like an un-natural thing to do and I can assure you it did for me as well. But I followed others advice and did it and the OM turned on my WW within minutes of me telling his family/friends. The A died that very minute as it brought the OM's true colors out in a light in which my WW had never seen. He was no longer that nice guy who could do no wrong. She saw him for the person he really was after he lashed out at her and blamed her for their little secret becoming public.

If you think the A is still alive in any way, shape, form or fashion then expose it today!


Posts: 280 | Registered: Oct 2013
nomistakeaboutit
Member
Member # 36857
Default  Posted: 9:36 AM, July 10th (Thursday)

1. See if your WW even wants to be married to you.

Like Cluless said, this really is step 1. All appearances from what you have posted indicate the answer is __________. I'll let you fill I the blank.

Consider the possibility that she is just DONE. My XWW had an A with her boss. Our son was 2 yo. Our daughter was 5. I was 100% sure she wouldn't want to Divroce! because of the kids and I knew what she and I had had together, a lot of which was good. Guess what? I was 100% wrong. Like your wife, my XWW JUMPED at the idea of Divorce.....almost showed excitement in her manner. It's been two years since the D and she's never had a tear hit the ground.



Me: BH 58.........Her: WW 45
DD: 8..........DS: 5
Married for six years.
DDay: 12-25-11 Divorced: 7-15-12
...................................
"It's like a nightmare within a nightmare, which in and of itself is a nightmare!"

Posts: 968 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: U.S.A.
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 10:05 AM, July 10th (Thursday)

Deceived

If you have not done it, go to my profile and read it. I cut it off but we did R after a few years.

The point is that ALL the signs were right in front of me and I was stupid enough to not see it as far as her dress and appearance is concerned. The difference is at least i had an excuse in that i was in a high stress job that had me in Marriott hotels almost 100 nights a year.

So understand this. The reason I keep harping on her dress is that no woman who is not totally mentally unstable leaves the house in a skirt or dress like you are describing is common UNLESS she is looking to attract MALE attention. She can make any excuse she wants to and let's see what the ladies on your thread say.

Your wife is either involved with other men or is looking to be involved with other men when you combine the above with her refusal to have ANY interest in doing ANYTHING to help you heal or make you feel safe.

SHE DOES NOT GIVE A SHIT. You are Plan B right now, and that may never change.

All of the people talking to you right now have been through this traumatic experience and we are still here and living OK. You can be too, but you have got to stop acting like a scared little puppy dog and face the facts.

You wife right now is CHECKED OUT, and once they do that your choices diminish and none of the options involve no pain.

Accept that reality and go to the lawyer, find out your rights, and do something to help yourself.
The pity party has to end!!!

Sorry for the 2X4 but you need it. it is meant to help you.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Long Gone
Member
Member # 32587
Default  Posted: 10:08 AM, July 10th (Thursday)

What Gman1 said.......read that post 5 times....print it out.....read it again.

I was like you....fear of losing my wife led to a lethargic reaction....for about a week. I had booted my wife. I caught her emailing him with a new and secret lovey dovey email address....from her parents house. I went fucking nuke strike. I told EVERYONE....I hunted down the OMs wife....when she knew...and her family knew.

POP

it was over....bigtime.

absolute remorse set in.....and saved our marriage


D-Day 11/26/10

Posts: 772 | Registered: Jun 2011
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, July 10th (Thursday)

Then she said, okay so lawyers.... how do you want to proceed?

It's a game of one-uppmanship. It's about control, getting YOU to back off on D and letting her continue to cake eat. If I were you, I would beat her to the punch and file first. If she files, she controls the D process and can drag out your suffering while she drags out her cake-eating fantasy. I've been through that. IT WAS HELL!!!

I don't want this marriage to end. Not because of my daughter's ( although they are a factor), but because, I don't want to leave my wife

Of course you don't want the marriage to end. We all didn't want our own marriages to end...at first. But you certainly do not want to be a doormat. You don't want to be hostage to this situation.

Now, actually talking (yelling) about divorce, the pain in my stomach cranked up to a new level.
I know she is probably still having an affair, but when it comes to divorce, I can't let go.

I know I look like a weak idiot, but I can't do this.

Look, she still is conducting her A. Look at her actions. It speaks the truth, and in VOLUMES. She refuses to be transparent to you. That is about control. You got confirmation from a lab with your semen detection kit - THAT IS YOUR PHYSICAL PROOF!

You want to know how NOT to look like an idiot or weak? Go silent and talk no more about a D with her. Go see that lawyer and start the counseling about family law and the work of preparing to file. DO NOT TELL HER YOU ARE DOING THIS. Do not engage her in anymore arguments. She will notice you being silent, strong, and determined. Once you file, YOU control the pace of that process. Have her ass served at her workplace. If her coworkers know who the OM is, I'm betting they will be more willing to provide you that name once they know your WW has been served. No one wants to be the bearer of bad news, especially if it can result in further damage, but if the damage has been done already (her being served) then they will likely feel that telling you what they know about the OM will help you instead of hurt you.


I'm scared to death of making this leap


We all were. Guess what? We all survived and are now from a position of strength to help you. Some of us are in R, some of us (like me) have followed through with D. The answer as to which way your situation will go will depend on what you do NOW to take control of the situation. She shows script behavior as your are describing. You are showing script behavior as the betrayed. This is why we are advising you what you should do. We've been through it, we've seen in each others own stories, and we continue to see it in every new member that signs up. The behavioral script is the same, just the situation and details are different.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 653 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, July 10th (Thursday)

I don't believe your wife is intending to divorce. If the OM is married he probably isn't available and there are the children's needs to consider. You probably would be the primary caregiver and she would have to pay alimony and child support. Also find somewhere to live that she can afford.

Filing for divorce however does enable her to sleep separately and end all marital sex. She can now reserve herself purely for the OM while being absolutely certain you lack the resolve to go through with legal separation. She knows you better than anyone.

I do wish you were not overly concerned with getting sex off her. Maybe thats the main reason you are reluctant to file; she would have an excuse to cut you off. You will soon lose her completely if you don't act soon. She doesn't have a trace of respect for you and feels justified in conducting this affair; unless you force her to choose her marriage or leave the marital home, she won't make any type of choice. She feels dominant and in control; the alpa 'male' of your household and it doesn't even make you angry.

You are in deep trouble and its not your wife's actions I'm talking about. Its your inability to do whats required to save your marriage. You won't swallow the nasty medicine that would make you better.


Posts: 1864 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
nomistakeaboutit
Member
Member # 36857
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, July 10th (Thursday)

Then she said, okay so lawyers.... how do you want to proceed?

...and let me guess....not one of her tears hit the ground after she said this, or the next morning or on the phone to you this afternoon.

You have an unremorseful spouse. No remorse, no reconciliation.

If I were you, I would have already filed for D. But, I'm not you. You want to try and find a way to stay in your marriage. With that in mind, you have only one move left, and it has been laid out for you in previous posts. This is simply a Hail Mary pass to try and jolt her back into reality, at which point she will presumably become remorseful.

1. Expose the A to the OM's wife.
2. Expose the A to their employer.
3. File for divorce.
4. Communicate to your wife that these are the conditions that will make you consider halting the divorce process.

*. She mails a letter to the OM calling everything off. She calls him, on speakerphone, and reads the letter. You are present during the call.

*. No future contact, at all, with the OM.

*. Full transparency to all of her electronics.

*. She gets a new job.

*. she starts IC.

*. Etc., etc.

You need a new approach. What you're doing now is not working.

Sorry you're in this shit hole of a mess. It's a bad hand to be dealt. You now have to essentially bluff that bad hand.


Me: BH 58.........Her: WW 45
DD: 8..........DS: 5
Married for six years.
DDay: 12-25-11 Divorced: 7-15-12
...................................
"It's like a nightmare within a nightmare, which in and of itself is a nightmare!"

Posts: 968 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: U.S.A.
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, July 10th (Thursday)

The A she was having, was with a guy who works in the (giant) office bldg. There are no more calls to him on our Bill. He didn't work with her or in her office.

That was the affair exposed by the seamen test.
It's been a month since then.
She has gone back to acting normal, but I still feel like she's having an affair. I don't think it's the first guy. I think she's flirtatious and may be having an A with someone else. I have no idea who it is.
She agreed to wear more conservative clothes like before the A.
During sex, she doesn't participate. If I stand next to her and rub her arm or back, she doesn't do it back.
It's hard to explain, but it's not the same.
I have an appointment with a lawyer next week. I'm hoping they'll give me an idea of what I c as n expect. If it looks like I can make it financially, and can have enough custody of my kids, I'll serve her. If not, I have to work on rebuilding my career.
Going forward, I'm finished with sex with her. I'm going to implement 180 until I can afford to leave her.
She has been addressing my issues as I raise them (clothes, no overtime, etc). I realize this is probably window dressing, but I can't just up and go until talk to the lawyer and find out what my options are.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 1:00 PM, July 10th (Thursday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
norabird
Member
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, July 10th (Thursday)

Stop having sex with her, please. I can't imagine how awful that would feel, to only go through the motions. It is very, very damaging and hurtful to you.

Also, not seeing the guy's number on the bill does not mean she isn't contacting him in other ways or calling him at work, etc.

Denial is a powerful thing. The fear of being hurt by the truth can be overwhelming. But you will only hurt more later by clinging on to shreds of imagined hope.

Good luck to you.


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4235 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, July 10th (Thursday)

Thanks. No more sex. I'm going to work on the 180 list while I seek legal counsel.
This thread has been brutal. I understand that I'm probably spinning my wheels if I think R is realistic.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Gman1
Member
Member # 40879
Default  Posted: 2:46 PM, July 10th (Thursday)

Deceivedguy,
Your wife is in the fog, a fantasy-land sort of place that most of us have never entered. It is a make believe place where nothing is real and there are no consequences, no judgment, no fear, no reality, no nothing. She might as well be on crack or some type hallucinating drug. It would be the exact same thing. She doesn't care about you, what she has, or even her children. The good news is that it is only a temporary thing. The bad news is that she is still there.

It is up to you to "shock" her back into reality one way or the other. She needs to leave her present employment but will most likely not do so until she comes back into reality. Whatever you choose to do it will most likely feel very un-natural and it will feel like the wrong thing to do. But you have to understand that you are not dealing with your wife right now. The person in her body is an alien and you must shock her back into reality so that she will return.

In my case, the OM was the son of a family friend. I picked up the phone and called his father and told him exactly what his son had done. His father was shocked and in disbelief. Seconds after I hung up with him, he called his son and blasted him. Seconds later the OM texted my WW and blasted her for confessing to me. When one AP blasts the other, A's tend to end right then and there. So within a span of ten minutes and one phone call from me, the A imploded. I also contacted his employer and anonymously posted what happened on FB for good measure so his workplace, friends, co-workers and all of his relatives instantly knew what he had done. Desperate times call for desperate measures. The first thing that needs to happen is for reality to come back for her and it is up to you to make that happen!


Posts: 280 | Registered: Oct 2013
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 3:01 PM, July 10th (Thursday)

There are no more calls to him on our Bill.

Have you checked the data usage? Has it gone up since the calls stopped? My XW and OM went from texting to the iCloud when the shit hit the fan, and it was all there in the data usage spikes.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 653 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 3:04 PM, July 10th (Thursday)

Deceived,

Someone else said it right. Your wife is NOT the woman you married now, and you are trying to hold on to that.
So she agreed to change her wardrobe. Did you ask her why she started dressing like that in the first place??? We know the answer to that.

In the overwhelming number of cases here, with behaviors like what you are getting, your GUT feeling is right.

Since she does not give a shit about you right now enough to give you an honest answer about anything, you only have a few options.

(1) you can continue to beg her to talk to you and be nice to her.- NOT WORKING !!!!
(2) you can use all of your ingenuity that you can gather to snoop on her and at some point you will find out what you need as far as proof- THIS CAN TAKE A LOT OF TIME AND YOU WILL BE IN DETECTIVE MODE 24/7,BUT IT CAN BE DONE AND YOU HAVE THE TIME TO DO IT
(3) you can see the attorney, present her the divorce papers, and one of two things will happen immediately. She will either say great, lets finalize the divorce as soon as possible, OR she will say this dude ain't fucking around any more and if i want to stay married i better turn things around. by turning it around i mean
NO CONTACT
TOTAL TRANSPARENCY
COMMTTMENT TO YOUR MARRIAGE MEANING YOU

You will never regain your trust without her eagerly participating in these things so your marriage right now is essentially dead.

I personally think this fog shit is way overrated. The way you get someones attention who keeps daydreaming is to keep kicking them in the ass.
I know others will differ, but I reject this letting her grieve for her affair partner.

Now you choose which of the options you want to do. You are the one who has to live with it.

one last thing. Yup, this thread IS BRUTAL . But not nearly as brutal as what you wife is doing to you with your permission and acceptance of it.

We all care more about you than she does right now.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, July 10th (Thursday)

Don't rest your case on no more phone bill charges. As you can learn here, cheaters have lots of ways they can communicate electronically without leaving that obvious record. iChat is one, I think.

Two issues are paramount. First, does she want to save the marriage? Right now, in an affair, she probably doesn't think about that. Thus the need for you to make very clear to her that unless she complies with your minimum requirements (NC, transparency, electronic device access, no lies, answers your questions -- these are listed elsewhere on this site) you will consider her unwilling to work to save the marriage and will govern yourself accordingly.

Second, do you want to save the marriage? If she demonstrates no remorse/sorrow for what's she's done recognizing it as marriage endangering error she needs to fix, then you cannot save the marriage as you cannot save it yourself. You want a marriage of two, not three or one. Unless you simply reconcile yourself to your wife perpetually cheating.

Badhurt states it right: she doesn't give a shit and YOU ARE PLAN B in case the A doesn't pan out like she dreams it will. Actually, she probably dreams that you will simply accept it and continue supporting her.

Read up on the 180 and ask yourself if you are tough enough to implement it. Its for your own mental well being -- it detaches YOU from HER. If she doesn't like it, she'll resist by whining, complaining, arguing or trying to seduce you. DON"T LISTEN. Watch what she actually does, like NC, no lies, etc.


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, July 10th (Thursday)

Reconciliation is possible; its just that you need to implement hard choices to drag your wife kicking and screaming to where you can begin the process. She is currently doing just enough to satisfy herself that she is being cooperative. That isn't nearly enough to begin successful reconciliation.

You need to find out just what is going on at her workplace. Put a GPS locator on her car, VAR in the car etc., what is she doing with her lunchtime?

Time to start looking for a full time job, but you might hold off a while if you are going to divorce. Staying at home is hard on men; they tend to lose self-worth and confidence. Their wives pick up on this and we have a downward spiral. Women don't respect men who have little confidence. Also the workplace is where you make friends, [or lovers in your wife's case], and you certainly could do with friends right now.


Posts: 1864 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 4:54 PM, July 10th (Thursday)

When she acts cold to you for no apparent reason, you really just feel like asking her, what the hell is your problem.

Life is really too short for all of these mind games.

Don't rest your case on no more phone bill charges. As you can learn here, cheaters have lots of ways they can communicate electronically without leaving that obvious record
When they want to take an affair underground, they can find 100 ways to do it. Especially with all of the iToys and electronic ways.

Does this OM work in the same city, I understand it is a different location, but this is in the same city, correct?

Does your wife have any time not accounted for. Late from work, excuses to be out at night, etc.?


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 7:21 PM, July 10th (Thursday)

I have no idea if she is currently cheating, let alone who it would be with.
i think the last OM was a booty call (my wife made the calls during the day). I believe she stopped with him.
HOWEVER, I think she is still having an affair. It may be with a coworker, it may be with a wholesaler (she works in the financial industry).
Again, I don't know for certain, but i have the same gut-wrenching intuition as the last OM.
For all I know, she has more than one OM.
If this is happening, its during working hours.
Because of the nature of her job, she doesnt have a specified lunchtime.
I'm going to start with a VAR. If I go GPS, it has to be foolproof. She already thinks ive hidden devices in her car before.
Right now I have to be patient. I just had hand surgery. I'm an I.T. guy, so that puts me out of commission for 8-12 weeks. There's no way i can get a job until i can use my right hand again.
I've also been out of IT for years because I made the bonehead move of switching places with my wife, 8 years ago. Financially, this is going to be an uphill battle. Plus I have two children who I love more than life, itself.
First step,consultation with lawyer next tuesday. IF I can, I'm still looking for another recommendation for a local divorce attorney. I need a competent attorney!
Of course I'm not telling my WS. I need to have a gameplan when I drop this on her. I predict she will be relieved that she can now live the life she wishes she could have lived when she was younger (she's 44). TYhis all started as she became more successful at work. And I gave up my career so she could go back to work. I loved being a SAHD, but it cut me off at the knees, careerwise.
Once I get a clear understanding of my options from the attorney, I can choose how and when to serve WS the divorce papers.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 7:27 PM, July 10th (Thursday)

Deceived

At least you will have a plan, which is a big improvement over when you first posted . You will find out the truth about her feelings when you drop the papers on her. She will either realize how serious this is or not/

She is obviously meeting these guy or guys at work during the day. And trust your gut !!!! It will usually be right


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 7:48 PM, July 10th (Thursday)

deceivedguy

A divorce takes months.

But making that decision and having her served without warning her will show her that you have consciously decided to separate yourself from her infidelity.

A few tips:

Do not disclose what you are doing legally. Tell her nothing.

Serve her at work. She deserves that.

The day you serve notify her family why you two are splitting up.

"WW has dishonored her vows and put my health at risk by having unprotected sex with multiple sex partners".

That is how you do it my friend. Act quickly on the lawyer and serve her.

It might just give her the kick in the ass she needs to wakeup or she might just want her freedom at your expense and the kids expense.

You will know pretty quickly. Get the var in the car. It will be informative as your divorce moves forward.

Good Luck and get tough. She will remember why she use to respect you......


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 9:19 PM, July 10th (Thursday)

At least you will have a plan, which is a big improvement over when you first posted .

This has been the toughest decision i've ever had to make, on so many levels. If I wasnt on pain killers for my hand, I'd be drinking my wife's 12 yr old scotch all night tonight.

As brutal as some of these posts have been, most of them have been spot-on, in regards to my wife's actions and behavior.

I was scared straight last night when my wife refused to let me see her work iPad and laptop, then when i said i'd had enough, she called my bluff and said she did too. She slept all night in a locked bathroom. Not sure what the statement was. Maybe I was supposed to think she was crying? I know it was for show.

That argument made me realize that I had to get a gameplan together. I'm not in a position to initiate a divorce. If my wife cant show me her electronics, I need to move on. I'm going to let her know that after I serve the papers. I think she'll embrace the divorce. If she says I can see her electronics I will let her know that its too late; she'll have had plenty of time to wipe away the secrets.

Tuesday is my first attorney mtg. I hope to have more choices, but I cant ask divorced people in my neighborhood, as I don't want my children to find out until DDay.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 9:31 PM, July 10th (Thursday)

Deceived

You have it right. My guess is she has already deleted anything incriminating and with you being home all day she can easily take this underground at work.
The important thing is that her behavior screams cheating, and you know she actively was a month ago.
Give her a pillow and let her sleep in the bathroom every night. She deserves to sleep out in the hall or porch.
Once you serve her , she will start to realize her life is goiing to change with you or without you. You cannot control her but you can control your life and be able to look yourself in the mirror each morning without wondering who she is having sex with that day.
It will get better.
Stay strong
The people responding to you will be there and the advice you get will be better than you could get by paying for it


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 9:38 PM, July 10th (Thursday)

I appreciate it Badhurt. I simultaneously dread and look forward to being a vet, sharing my experience with new people in this forum.
For now, my stomach is in a knot and i'm in a fog. I'm in the same excruciating pain i've been in, for months. I want this damn pain to go away already!

thanks again to all, for sharing your experiences, advice, and insight


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 9:42 PM, July 10th (Thursday)

Deceived

Now is NOT the time to thank anyone because you will need advice more than ever on the upcoming period. Just remember, no matter what happens, it is highly UNLIKELY that there is not someone here who has not had a similar experience . Your support network here is thousands strong .

The way you feel right now is no way to live forever.
Find a good lawyer and give her the shock and awe she has given you


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Salt
Member
Member # 43726
Default  Posted: 12:56 AM, July 11th (Friday)

DG,
Although I am new to this site, I am not new to your experience. I discovered April 2010 that my husband had been sleeping with a friend of mine. The 4 of us went on vacations together, we were part of a larger friend group. It was devastating. I went to a lawyer the week I found out.

I told mowh, as he was (still is) a friend of mine. He left her that afternoon. She cried to my ex, and he was furious with me. His plan was for the two of them to continue their affair. He made me out as the perpetrator and used it as part of his excuses against me. They aligned together against the awful betrayed spouse who told mowh the truth when he asked.

What followed were 2-3 months of gaslighting, lies upon more lies. I just wasn't ready to take action. I was in denial, I wanted to believe what he was telling me (they were only friends, he had stopped all contact, wanted only me, loved only me, etc etc), but my gut told me it wasn't the truth.

I put a VAR in his car when he went on a 'business' trip. I needed to hear definitive proof. That was what I needed to move forward. I heard things that hurt me greatly. I heard ex and mow plot against me. I heard everything I needed to hear to finally move forward. I threw him out that night. He cried and said he was sorry. Then he left my house and went to her.

I never revealed to him my proof and I wouldn't advise you to ever reveal it either, if you go the same route. None of her business.

I also hadn't worked in 8 years, but I got my mba in the process and done a few things to keep my hand a bit in, if you will.

He never returned, and I wouldn't have taken him back. I would never have been able to trust him again. Too many lies. The week I threw him out I learned that she wasn't his first affair.

4 years later, I am divorced 2 years, I have gone back to work, and I am still healing. I am 54 and on my own. We had been together a long time, 20 years.

I didn't want a divorce either, DG. I wanted to reconcile until I heard the contents of that VAR. I didn't know how I was going to make the transition back to work, how I would survive financially. My attorney advised me to wait to return to work until after the divorce, and I got a good settlement taking into consideration how long I had been out of work, how I supported ex when he started his business, etc. Ex had to pay me alimony, etc.

My advice to you is if you need proof then get it. Not everyone needs proof, but some of us do. I needed it to be able to let go. So I would advise the following:

1. Get a couple of lawyer consults, find one you trust. Take all of your financials with you when you go see the attorney, all assets and debts, past tax returns etc.

2. Get the proof you need. Put a VAR in the car if necessary.

3. Start putting all of your attention and focus on you and your children. Go dark with your wife, detach detach detach.

4. File as soon as possible. The earlier the better. If nothing else if there is any guilt it helps during settlement negotiations. If she's able to work her way back to you, OK. If not, you are taking steps to protect yourself and your children.

Remember to breathe. You will be OK. It's scary now, but you are going to be OK.



BS, 54 Divorced 2012
I read and walked for miles at night along the beach, writing bad blank verse and searching endlessly for someone wonderful who would step out of the darkness and change my life. It never crossed my mind that that person would be me.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jun 2014
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 5:58 AM, July 11th (Friday)

Salt, thank you!
I am going to be 49, next week. I am afraid of the financial as well as the social implications.
I.T. years are like dog years. If you're out one year,it may as well be seven. I've been out for eight years. When we moved eight years ago, I had a job lined up and my wife begged to switch places. She was stressed about being home with two toddlers all day and wanted to go back to work.
After a few discussions, I reluctantly agreed.
So, I've been a stay at home dad, with the occasional part time job, for about eight years.

I know this isn't the time to think about it however, I'm also the type of person who craves intimacy and affection. The thought of being alone at 49, also seriously bums me out. Thanks to my WS's A, I lost over 40 pounds in one month. As I tried to gain weight, I joined a gym. I now have the best body I've ever had, including a six-pack. The gym has been my saviour this entire time.
Because I don't like being alone, it is that much harder to initiate legal proceedings. I'm going to do it, though. I have no doubt that WS is having another A. I suspect it's a good looking kid she hired as her assistant. After agreeing to go to the office later (one of the Times she had sex at work during the last A,was before everyone else got there), she is incrementally leaving five and ten minutes earlier, then another five minutes earlier, etc...
She once told me her new assistant gets there a little early. She said his mom drops him off (he's 23 and supposedly lives at home.
I wouldn't be surprised if WS swings by and picks him up now.
Her sister, who recently became a psychologist, married a guy half her age. I suspect her sister has been telling her that the A wasn't her fault because she's a victim.
To rationalize her A, my wife created a fake history of the past two years. She makes it sound like I was an unsupportive, detached, drug-addled husband and our marriage was falling apart.
A) I'm the most over-protective, loving, supportive husband and father you'll ever meet. B) I've saved every email and text message I've ever sent or received since the late 90's. Our correspondence clearly illustrates that everything has always been normal and our marriage wasn't in trouble until Nov/Dec when my wife started showing signs of an A.
So I think my WS' s sister, who knows about the previous A, has been an echo chamber for her, completely justifying her actions (in her mind).

All this week, I haven't chased after my wife for sex, and I'm not commenting about how early she's leaving for work. I'm detaching, best I can although it really hurts.
Sunday morning, to keep me pacified, she'll ask me if I want to fool around (she'll only do it on the weekend, and in the morning so it goes by fast, and she just lays there and doesn't participate. This Sunday, I'm going to have a headache. This will be a relief to her, but also be a little baffling. For one thing, in 16 years of marriage, I've never had a morning headache, but also, I've agreed to sex during 102 fever. I never turn down sex. This weekend I will.

Damn, I wish I could get rid of this pain and fog!

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 5:59 AM, July 11th (Friday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 6:58 AM, July 11th (Friday)

I try to give good advice, but along comes a beautiful post like the one from Salt and just about sums up all I have tried to say, in such a heartbreaking account of betrayal and survival.

Thanks Salt; I hope deceivedguy derives help from your wise words.

Deceivedguy, You need to comprehend that your cheating wife doesn't deserve a honorable man like yourself. You are too damn good for her and its about time you understood this.


Posts: 1864 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 7:33 AM, July 11th (Friday)

thanks, OK! I was blown away by Salt's post. I have also been appreciative of others like HurtBad and Swizzlestick, who have been so active in this thread. You all don't know me, and have nothing to gain by helping me. I wish I had found this site back in Feb.
It was tough, but I was completely detached this morning. I didn't act upset over the many triggers my WS set off. I was very matter-of-fact, this morning. She asked several times "are you okay?" and "am I upset with her?"...
Each time, I smiled and said everything is great.

When she left for work, she actually seemed a little baffled.

I feel like crying. Ugh.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 7:39 AM, July 11th (Friday)

Each time, I smiled and said everything is great.

You are doing well with that deceivedguy. Keep that up. I know it's hard, but even you yourself said she seemed baffled. That's because she's not used to getting that reaction. She's too comfortable as it is. As you detach, she's probably going to see it more and more. Pay attention to her reactions.

Sending you strength and courage.

yop


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2463 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 7:59 AM, July 11th (Friday)

Thanks YOP! That little bit of time acting happy, content, and disconnected, was exhausting. I've been getting crying out of my system before the kids come downstairs. I have an entire weekend of this ahead of me.

I wish my hand wasn't still messed up, so I could go to the gym.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Ginny
Member
Member # 43196
Default  Posted: 8:10 AM, July 11th (Friday)

Go to the gym. Use the leg machines, walk on the treadmill...anything to get those endorphins! You need them now.


BW49
FWH50
DDay 11-02-13
Married 30 years
2 month PA/EA with COW
DS28
Trying to R

Posts: 118 | Registered: Apr 2014
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 8:36 AM, July 11th (Friday)

IMHO your biggest problem is that you don‘t know enough.

I firmly believe that infidelity can only be handled from a base of truth. There are some factors we old-timers will tell you are important for recovery; things like NC, transparency, remorse, dedication, MC, IC… (The list goes on and on).

Each and one of those factors that is omitted makes that base of truth weaker. And each factor omitted multiplies the level of difficulty in a logarithmic scale.

So if you have all the factors lined up your chances of saving the marriage are actually extremely good. Statistically it’s only about 20% of marriages dealing with infidelity end in divorce in the first year post-dday. But have one factor missing and I venture your odds drop by half. Have another factor missing and half that half. Have another factor missing and half that half you halved…

So I go back to you not having enough information.
- You aren’t really sure who OM is. You have an unclear idea about some maintenance guy but that’s it. So you have no way of implementing or demanding NC.

- You aren’t clear when, where, why and how. So you aren’t clear on how you can be made feel safe about what she’s up to. If she’s in finances then how will you be feeling when she does overtime at the end of next quarter? Or before the stockholders meeting? What about those meetings off-site with that customer or representative? You don’t KNOW – therefore you can’t react. You don’t know what SHE can do to assure you.

- She isn’t committing to fixing whatever made her feel a need to get validation from other men.

- She’s not transparent. She’s not offering the support needed for you to feel safe. Yes – we BS need to work towards granting trust but for now and the next 12 months she needs to be an open book.


Is your situation recoverable? YES – DEFINITELY! But only if both want it and work towards it. At the moment she isn’t working…

A key part of recovery is when the WS openly acknowledges that having an affair is not the correct way to respond to whatever the issue was that made them reach the decision to have an affair. When the WS acknowledges that the affair is wrong no matter why and how you look at it.


An even more important part of the process is when the betrayed spouse – YOU – realize that losing your wife is by far not the worst outcome of this situation. What is immensely worse is spending the next years examining her panties, wondering where she is, worrying that the meeting she is at might be a booty call… The ABSOLUTE worst outcome is remaining in infidelity.


Once you make that realization you have all the power you need to move on.


You sit down and list your reasonable and enforceable demands:
A) Clear and unequivocal commitment to the marriage.
B) Total transparency and accountability.
C) The truth – including any detail and name you require.
D) MC and IC as required.
E) NC with the OM.
F) ….

Then you tell your wife something along the lines of:
“Wife. I love you and there is little I want more than this marriage to work. To attain that I am willing to do a LOT of work. I also realize that a lot of that work is in how I behave and interact. However… I have realized that although losing you and the marriage might hurt then it’s IMMENSELY worse to SHARE YOU. That’s what I am doing right now. I am sharing you with one or more OM and that is something I can’t accept. That is something that is worse than losing you because in having an affair and remaining in an affair I have already lost this marriage. All that remains is burying it. So feel free to see OM and have sex with whomever you want – but not as my wife.”

You then tell her that unless she verbally and clearly commits to the marriage and accepts your conditions you are simply assuming the affair is ongoing. By not committing in a clear way then she is indirectly saying she wants to have her affair and thereby ending the marriage.

Get it? You don’t guess or wonder if it’s ongoing. You simply assume that IF she can’t commit to the marriage then she IS having an affair.

And then you go about the business of terminating the marriage.

What this does – amongst other things – is turn the burden of proof around. You have already accepted that she’s cheating. You have already set off out of infidelity. If she wants to come along she has to convince YOU that she is committed.

Divorce is a long, drawn out process. It won’t happen overnight. It’s not as if you file and then two days later she’s out. In fact filing is only one step of thousands.
Start getting a clear picture of your finances, list all stakeholders in the marriage, research divorce in your state and so on.

After this then avoid all arguments with your wife.
Working overtime? Well – she’s simply confirming your claim that as long as she doesn’t commit to the marriage then the affair is ongoing. No need to argue about it – she’s made her choice.
Calling you to let you know she will be late (as if trying to calm you down)? Tell her thanks but not necessary for her to call. As long as she doesn’t commit to the marriage and your conditions you are simply assuming she’s doing Mr. Maintenance.
Complaining about how you were a crappy husband? Well – tell her that you are sorry she feels that way and this would definitely be something you would look into IF you two were reconciling. But since she hasn’t committed then it’s a moot point and doesn’t need to be discussed.

Get it? While she isn’t committed… then you simply move on.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5585 | Registered: Sep 2005
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 9:15 AM, July 11th (Friday)

I.T. years are like dog years. If you're out one year,it may as well be seven. I've been out for eight years.

I'm in I.T. and I know exactly what you mean. Don't know if you heard about this given you've been in the circle of infidelity hell, but copy/paste and google the following:

Largest collection of FREE Microsoft eBooks ever, including: Windows 8.1, Windows 8, Windows 7, Office 2013, Office 365, Office 2010, SharePoint 2013, Dynamics CRM, PowerShell, Exchange Server, Lync 2013, System Center, Azure, Cloud, SQL Server,

It's free and at least another reason to get your WW and the situation off your mind and looking into the future. Keep going to the gym the best you can. Refocus your need for intimacy and affection from your WW and instead focus on being there for your kids and show them how much you love them. Spend more time with them. Let them see more of their dad being happy.

Which leads me to this suggestion - can you plan doing something with the kids this sunday morning? It would be better than having to tell your WW that you have a headache. That way you don't have suffer through the awkward moment of gauging her reaction to rejecting sex, then getting pulled into another anxiety spiral. Just get out of the house with kids and go enjoy that time with them instead of having bland sex with someone who just doesn't give a shit about you. You kids care about you, right? So they deserve that time with you.

Detaching takes practice, and soon you will be creative on ways to switch up the old habits by replacing them with good ones.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 653 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 9:37 AM, July 11th (Friday)

You sit down and list your reasonable and enforceable demands:
A) Clear and unequivocal commitment to the marriage.
B) Total transparency and accountability.
C) The truth – including any detail and name you require.
D) MC and IC as required.
E) NC with the OM.

Deceived,

Bigger gave you the game plan of what you need above very specifically.

So you apparently DO have an idea who she is having an affair with, 23 year old assistant. Guess what, your gut is probably right because that would totally explain the change in her dress to look more like a hot 25 year old. That combined with her sister is at least an idea where the problem lies. When you confront her, you can tell her you are suspecting that and are going to her HR Department and telling them your suspicions and the problems it is causing in your marriage. I guarantee you she and he will be called in to talk about it. She will be pissed as hell when you tell her that and may just blurt something stupid out. You can't really go to the mother of a 23 year old and com[lain to her that her son may be banging a married woman. If you get the VAR in her car, you will find out about that one very quickly, so you need to do that immediately.
As the detectives would say, with the 23 year old
SHE HAS MOTIVE
SHE HAS TIME
SHE HAS OPPORTUNITY
If you are not seeing any long unanswered disappearances at night or week end you know this is all happening during the day at work.

When she asked you this morning if you are all right, all she is doing is probing. I am NOT an expert on the 180 so I will defer to the others because in your situation my approach would be to press her EVERY MINUTE of every day until she cracked and blurted out the truth in anger. I would make every minute in the home the hell that you are experiencing, but you are not me so you have to do what you can live with.

The bottom line is you are not going to solve this in any quick time period unless you file for divorce and force her hand. She now still has all the privacy and secrecy to do whatever she wants and is NOT going to voluntarily turn over anything to you that has not been sterilized of evidence.

As far as Sunday morning. Personally, I think she will be relieved she does not have to service you and can save her energy for her boyfriend, so again i look at it a little different. To me, you are giving her exactly what she wants. I'd bang her brains out laughing all the way knowing that divorce papers are headed her way and user her like she is using you. i guess i am just a nasty SOB.

So proceed like you are doing, get to the attorney to find out your rights, and back her ass into a corner.

And cry all day if you have to, so that there are NO TEARS in your discussions with her. You must show her ONLY cold, calculated demands or consequences.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 9:45 AM, July 11th (Friday)

The wondering at this point is miserable for you. You know in your gut she is still having an affair and you cannot prove it yet.

You wonder why she acts that way towards you and makes you wonder and guess and imagine and blame yourself. The self doubt always ends up creeping into those conversations with yourself.

Her leaving early in the morning, does she have an answer to that when you ask.

Can you have her followed by a friend?

If you can get the name of the OM who she had the original affair with, you can probably get her mind out of the fog.

It sounds odd that she would go from having an affair with a boss to a 23 year old. But, the boss could have dumped her and the 23 year old is a revenge affair.

Sure makes you feel like you are on the outside looking in.

Which will change as you gain more control over the situation and you will. I do think that the WS thinks the situation stays the same while the BS is living in some kind of vacuum where none of this affects them.

But that is when their fantasy world crumbles when they find out their BS was not oblivious or living in a vacuum. Continue to gain more control and do not let her affair rule your life.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, July 11th (Friday)

I'd bang her brains out laughing all the way knowing that divorce papers are headed her way and user her like she is using you. i guess i am just a nasty SOB.

Ahhhh...I wouldn't, because STD's are a bitch. Why risk exposure? Just a thought.

Among the other benefits of detaching your WS no longer feels you are on to them, they relax their guard and get careless. By all means continue the investigation, GPS, VAR, keylog, hiring a PI, etc. Go dark and observe and collect information. I think one is more likely to get that evidence when the WS thinks they are back in control and resuming the A.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 653 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 10:12 AM, July 11th (Friday)

jduff, thanks so much for the info!!! i've been out of the loop. i havent gotten an MS cert in years, but I'll look into all of that material.

my surgeon doesnt want me to go to the gym (even cardio) before my first physical therapy appt. However, there are many things i can do with my girls. I have been the primary caregiver for 8 years and i'm also the fun\immature parent. I often do things with them that my WS woulndt even consider. This is where my 8 years as a summer camp employee pays off.

My wife and I usually wake up before the girls on sunday. One of us drives out for coffee and bagels (the only gluten treat the kids can have, usually). Then we hang out on the porch while works and i study. I foolishly enrolled in a college course in the middle of this mess!
When I wake up, I'm just going to head downstairs as fast as i can, to avoid the invitation.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, July 11th (Friday)

I had her get tested for STDs after the admission of the first affair. I think she is playing the field and has multiple flirts and possible A's.
When i first got her to admit, she didnt know what proof i had so she admitted to sexting with ANOTHER guy who works for her company, in another office!!!

Because she thought I was spying on her she admitted to hugging a guy in public, downtown after her kung fu one night. Another young good looking guy. She thought I saw them hugging (i didnt) so she said she was consoling him. More reasons why i need to face the truth and get out. She appears to be a slut. At this point, I don't know who, or how many.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 10:21 AM, July 11th (Friday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 10:25 AM, July 11th (Friday)

I think your wife will get alarmed when she sees signs of you giving up on the relationship. Right now she thinks she is getting away with her exciting adultery and you will be there when the affairs taper off and its back to the old routine. Your past reliance on sex has convinced her that she can manipulate you this way. All she has to do seduce you and you will cave completely.

In conjunction with ending the sex life don't show any anger, just tell her that your are tired of fighting for the marriage and you are close to giving up. No emotion, just weariness at a marriage gone bad. What your wife fears more than anything is indifference; as long as you are emotional you care. Then stop showing emotion; thats what the 180 is about; pulling away and not caring; looking after yourself and the children's interests.

Just imagine if you were cheating what would you fear? As long as your wife was tearful and angry she still cared. But what if she became indifferent and cold? Then you might get worried.

I would not tell her you loved her and want the marriage to succeed above all. The twisted mind of the WS will see that as a weakness to be exploited and your misery will just be extended. The key is indifference and the 180. Convince her you no longer care if she screwed the entire Dallas cowboys football team in one session, as long as they cleaned up their mess after them.
If you then file for divorce she will know you mean it; you have moved on; hopefully sticking her with child support and alimony payments.


Posts: 1864 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 10:28 AM, July 11th (Friday)

Deceived,

It's good you are now facing the reasons why you have to get out. If there are multiple affairs going on of some sort, and you believe there are, you are out of options, and you could be living like this a long time trying to unravel it all.

There is too much going on for you to have to be worried about proof. Work has become her preferred cheating zone and you will not be able to infiltrate it easily GET THE VAR if it will make you feel better.

i think in your heart you know enough.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 12:14 PM, July 11th (Friday)

Work has become her preferred cheating zone
Maybe not if she is hugging a guy after kung fu class. Sounds like it could be anywhere and anyone.

The best reason for the continued snooping and getting real evidence once and for all, is so you will never have to wonder if you did the right thing at some point in the future.

You won't have to hear her always tell you were wrong and nothing was going on.

I understand you already did get proof, and at that point you were willing to R. Oddly, your hard core evidence didnt seem to bother her at all.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
catperson
New Member
Member # 38441
Default  Posted: 12:52 PM, July 11th (Friday)

This is the best advice you've gotten. Please follow it:
Once you make that realization you have all the power you need to move on.


You sit down and list your reasonable and enforceable demands:
A) Clear and unequivocal commitment to the marriage.
B) Total transparency and accountability.
C) The truth – including any detail and name you require.
D) MC and IC as required.
E) NC with the OM.
F) ….

Then you tell your wife something along the lines of:
“Wife. I love you and there is little I want more than this marriage to work. To attain that I am willing to do a LOT of work. I also realize that a lot of that work is in how I behave and interact. However… I have realized that although losing you and the marriage might hurt then it’s IMMENSELY worse to SHARE YOU. That’s what I am doing right now. I am sharing you with one or more OM and that is something I can’t accept. That is something that is worse than losing you because in having an affair and remaining in an affair I have already lost this marriage. All that remains is burying it. So feel free to see OM and have sex with whomever you want – but not as my wife.”

You then tell her that unless she verbally and clearly commits to the marriage and accepts your conditions you are simply assuming the affair is ongoing. By not committing in a clear way then she is indirectly saying she wants to have her affair and thereby ending the marriage.

Get it? You don’t guess or wonder if it’s ongoing. You simply assume that IF she can’t commit to the marriage then she IS having an affair.

And then you go about the business of terminating the marriage.


Posts: 14 | Registered: Feb 2013
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, July 11th (Friday)

Her word is worthless at this point. She has not only said she's committed to saving the marriage, but she insisted on seeing a MC.
That is just so she can use the MC to validate the fantasy world she's created as a justification for cheating.
She still wont let me see her electronics, she said she broke up with original OM via her phone and when I didnt see the call on our bill, she said she made the call from her work phone. She has been working at making everything appear normal at home, but she doesn't realize all of the details she cant fake.
Unless some miracle occurs' i'm doing my best to stay disconnected and seem unaffected, until i find an attorney i trust. I'm going to serve her with divorce papers and tell her i'm willing to talk if she changes to transparency, and doing whatever it takes for me to feel secure in knowing she is not cheating during work hours. I might not even go that far. I need to look at her electronics whenever i want, and i need the name(s) of OM(s).
My guess is, she'll welcome divorce in which case i'll know i didn't have her back, anyway.
I just need to have the guts to do it, when i have the right lawyer.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, July 11th (Friday)

Deceived,

Was the MC joint, or just IC for her. That is worthless. She could have told the therapist any lie she wanted to and you'd never know.

Stay out of MC now until you file and get an answer.

I forget who said it, buti think you should do what was suggested. Get a sitter for the kids, and walk into her office with the papers and tell her she can now legally enjoy herself without worrying about anything.

DO NOT tell her you love her and WANT to R. Tell her what you want now is your demands met or she is free to go.

The more I think about your situation the more pissed i get. How disgraceful, to have to take your wife's panties to get tested for strange semen.

She is very lucky she is not married to me.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 1:43 PM, July 11th (Friday)

BadHurt,
At our last MC session I revealed that my method of knowing WS had sex, were the semen tests. AND, I did another test recently, a week or so since i last had sex with her (jun 17th).
The MC's response was, a)science can be wrong, b) asking my wife if these discoveries make her feel ambushed, c)if we keep talking about my suspicion that she's still cheating, we can't move forward.

my wife denied, saying the test is wrong because she hasnt had sex with anyone else since admitting original A. Of course.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, July 11th (Friday)

I need to look at her electronics whenever i want, and i need the name(s) of OM(s).
There can be no R without those things. And that is the bottom line.

Otherwise, you're right back where you started.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, July 11th (Friday)

A good divorce lawyer can recommend IC or MC if you want. A good divorce lawyer has no stake in whether you end up divorced or not, either, so good ones will make that recommendation.

You aren't at that point now, however. MC at the tip of a spear (D) isn't going to work. Nor is it if she's still involved with OM and hasn't gone NC. Don't waste the time and money.


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, July 11th (Friday)

UPDATE
This detachment is doing something to my WS. She called me from work to see how I was. I didn't initiate any conversation, just responded to hers.
She tried cracking a couple of jokes which she hasn't done in awhile.
I always initiate "i love you" at the end of calls. And it has always ticked me off (during and after A) when she'd say "love ya" instead of i love you". semantics, i know.
Today she ended the call letting me know she'll call when she is on her way home. Instead of saying "i love you', i said, "okay"...
long pause....she said very clearly, "I love you".

It's not easy, but this detaching is eliciting some interesting reactions by WS...


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 1:51 PM, July 11th (Friday)

You MC is an idiot, and is giving her cover . Ten different therapists will not give the same advice. She cheats and this genius tells you not to out her on the spot.
Don't go back there.
Mac is a subjective science, not quantitative. If you get back to MC, which I doubt , you need to make it clear that is it going nowhere until you are convinced you are getting the truth .
The word trust for her should not even come up. You would need to be committed to a mental hospital if you trusted her one inch now

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Salt
Member
Member # 43726
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, July 11th (Friday)

Careful DG,
I got all of that too, and then some. Ex attended MC with me, then would go see mow afterward. Ex wouldn't give me his electronics, then got another phone to talk to her on (it fell out of his jacket, idiot). I was told, sure I can get you electronics, but it's not going to assure you I'm not doing anything. I can use any phone to make a call. You are just going to have to trust me. BS.

Yeah. Put a VAR in her car DG. You will know the truth then.

Stay strong! Detach detach detach. Stay dark.

[This message edited by Salt at 2:06 PM, July 11th (Friday)]


BS, 54 Divorced 2012
I read and walked for miles at night along the beach, writing bad blank verse and searching endlessly for someone wonderful who would step out of the darkness and change my life. It never crossed my mind that that person would be me.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jun 2014
Tom67
Member
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 2:15 PM, July 11th (Friday)

Stop wasting $$$ on that idiot of an MC.
Like what Salt said var in her car go get one today go to best buy or frys get a good olympus or sony model.
Radio shack has crappy ones imo.

Posts: 316 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Shocked  Posted: 2:17 PM, July 11th (Friday)

Badhurt and ,
We fired that MC after our blowout, a few nights ago. I said that we cant work on moving forward until we work on dealing with the A. WS wanted me to find another. i found one, but appt isnt until end of the month. i'm buying time for lawyer interviews. Wish i could get a line on another. i have aN appt with a lawyer on tues, but i want to make sure i get someone who is good.

Salt...working hard at the detachment! ITS TOUGH! True test will be if i cant slip out of bed fast enough in the morning, to avoid sex invitation. although like i said before, its not really sex, its early morning (weekend-only), get it over with as fast as possible, her laying there unresponsive, physical interaction.
I have to be strong if i dont make it out of bed before potential invitation (meant to pacify me).
And my darned right hand won't be healed for another 8-12 weeks!

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 2:18 PM, July 11th (Friday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Tom67
Member
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 2:17 PM, July 11th (Friday)

Tell her you set up a polygraph appointment then see her reaction.
I wouldn't waste the money on it but I would bring it up.

Posts: 316 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 2:22 PM, July 11th (Friday)

The MC's response was, a)science can be wrong, b) asking my wife if these discoveries make her feel ambushed, c)if we keep talking about my suspicion that she's still cheating, we can't move forward.

Fuuuuuck, it's bad enough to be gas-lighted by your own WS, but then also by the MC!?!?

You are firing her, right?

Today she ended the call letting me know she'll call when she is on her way home. Instead of saying "i love you', i said, "okay"...
long pause....she said very clearly, "I love you".

Yup, and pretty soon you'll start to experience heavy "hoovering" from her. Stay strong. It'll get REALLY interesting.

Hurry up and get that VAR from walmart or target. Hide it under the seat in the car. If you can't find the sony model there are some from $30 to $60 range in other brands. Better to get something than nothing.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 653 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 2:23 PM, July 11th (Friday)

Tom, we already went through that. when she gave me initial name of original OM, and where he worked, i investigated and found out he didnt exist. she agreed to take polygraph, then backed down, giving me the name of a person who works in her building who does exist. She didnt know i was looking at phone bills (she does the bills) but his number was never called again after that. i think its over between WS and that OM. Ithink she is with different OM now.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, July 11th (Friday)

Since your initial post you have made great progress. I see determination and strength returning and that will get you through this current misery.

Don't get angry with WW. Just stay calm and detached. She is still playing that game of 'you can't do anything since you don't know anything'.

Your greatest deficiency, as other have said, is not knowing the name of the OM or if she is still engaged in a PA with him. Makes it difficult to hang a person if you can't prove they have committed a crime.

You need some proof or she will evade justice and carry on with her 'crimes'.


Posts: 1864 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, July 11th (Friday)

there is a spy store not too far from my house, where i bought the semen detection kits.
it has to be seriously hidden because she was paranoid of surveillance long before i confronted her with proof.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 2:28 PM, July 11th (Friday)

You need some proof or she will evade justice and carry on with her 'crime

OK now, i'm going to go VAR shopping!


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 2:37 PM, July 11th (Friday)

OK now, i'm going to go VAR shopping!

I'm going to take a different tact. Why?^^^^ Other than replacing your right hand, what drives you to want her back? Is her cooking so superlative? Her conversations so witty?

Right now, it sounds like the 180 is working. She is beginning to turn it around. However, until she is on her knees, sobbing and begging and offering everything you have already requested, why do you even want her back? The sex ain't that good.

Sending strength. I'm sorry you've had to join us.

ETA Spelin

[This message edited by 5454real at 2:49 PM, July 11th (Friday)]


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 21(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 3301 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 2:39 PM, July 11th (Friday)

And it has always ticked me off (during and after A) when she'd say "love ya" instead of i love you". semantics, i know.
Semantics and things just like you mentioned are all parts of what causes our gut feelings to get that funny feeling.

It is the little things that our guts notice quickly, those little things that seem out of place to us.

You could probably get that phone number traced and find out who exactly that OM was.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
Tom67
Member
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 3:13 PM, July 11th (Friday)

When you get the var you are going to have to get heavy velcro and attach under the drivers seat.

Posts: 316 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 3:17 PM, July 11th (Friday)

545,
At this point, the main reason for finding out who it is, is piece of mind. There may be more than one OM, but if I serve her D papers without more definitive proof of at least one, I won't have closure. It may seem like a waste of time, but I need to know, if possible. If I don't get a name, I'm still planning on doing this, but I really want to know.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 3:19 PM, July 11th (Friday)

Craig, exactly!
Its like walking through a room in your house every day, where nothing is moved. One day, one item is moved an inch... You KNOW something is different, but cant put your finger on it.
This is what the cheaters cant fake!


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 3:20 PM, July 11th (Friday)

Thanks, Tom!


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
LifeisCrazy
Member
Member # 38287
Default  Posted: 3:32 PM, July 11th (Friday)

DG - I've felt for a very long time now that there's an easier way than spying.... through cool, calm and collected strength. It's time to put on the bad ass boots and lay down the law.

I've said this before on this forum:

Out of the blue, no advanced notice, tell her to sit down at the kitchen table. If possible, have all her toys - phone, computer, tablet, etc. - and have them in front of her. Calmly, let her know that it ends.... right.... now.

"Give me all your passwords. Everything. Right now."

"Here's a piece of paper. Right down the name of every guy you've slept with since we've been married."

Right now.

Then drop the bomb. "You do this immediately AND agree to every other condition I make or the marriage ends right now - and it ends ugly."

I am perfectly fine with you looking her in the eye and calmly telling her that if she doesn't you will tell everyone - her employer, her family, her friends - and, yes, when the time comes, you will explain to your kid why mom and dad are no longer together.

Let her know that you don't want this to happen but that you are taking the first steps toward saving your marriage. Will she take that first step with you to do the same by being honest?

Make it clear that YOU hold the power now and you will NOT be made a fool of for another second. She's either on board or she is out.

Don't let her check her phone. Don't let her think about it. Don't let her have any way to delete mail, messages or anything else.

"Make a decision. Right now."

If she can't, or doesn't - you have your answer. And you can spend the $50 on a few drinks instead of a VAR. And I wouldn't think twice about picking up her stuff, walking to the front door, and send it out on the front lawn.

Good luck. Strength is key.


"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

Posts: 159 | Registered: Jan 2013
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 5:37 PM, July 11th (Friday)

LifeIsCrazy.
Thanks.
I tried that. She called my bluff. Going to have to serve D papers...


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
ChangeMaker
Member
Member # 43899
Default  Posted: 5:41 PM, July 11th (Friday)

She called your bluff? It's only a bluff if you don't serve those papers.


"Everything works if you let it." - Travis W. Redfish

DDay - June 7, 2014
Me - 43
WW - 41
DD - 6 and 3
Pulling the Plug


Posts: 438 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: Ontario
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 6:03 PM, July 11th (Friday)

You have your answer. File and serve
And 180
For your own peace of mind. Detach

Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 6:37 PM, July 11th (Friday)

I think the VAR could prove useful, although you cannot disclose the information you gather. Illegal recordings.
You need something to prove she in an active affair; right now she thinks you are helpless; she can cheat at will and you can't prove a thing. What she doesn't realize is that she is poisoning your future life together, but maybe she doesn't care. Perhaps she is plotting to leave you sometime in the next few years anyway.

Sadly I think sometimes these cheaters view their BS as having the status of a cockroach. So much contempt and derision. Bet your WS and the OM share many a laugh at your predicament. Utter cruelty.

One thing is for sure only you care for this relationship, and you are being driven slowly and surely towards separation.


Posts: 1864 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Salt
Member
Member # 43726
Default  Posted: 7:19 PM, July 11th (Friday)

DG,
I know it's hard to detach. You have experienced a nuclear bomb go off in your life and it was very sudden.

I am still in favor of a VAR. I bought one from Radio Shack for $80. It didn't work perfectly but it gave me 2 hours of information. That was enough. The knowledge gave me peace of mind, removed all doubt for me. Although I heard very painful things, I would do it all over again.

I put it where you put your sunglasses, because I knew he never used it, never wore sunglasses ever. My story is a long one and perhaps another time I will tell it to you. Will give you a laugh and keep you on the edge of your seat. I can laugh about it now. Velcro attached to under the drivers seat is a very good idea I would do that if I were you.

If you are serious about not having sex with her, and I wouldn't were I you, all you need to do is simply tell her: Look, I'm not comfortable with everything that has been happening and I need some space. No physical intimacy right now. I just need some time to think about things.

Then get up and go about your day. Very calmly, no further discussion. If she asks further you only repeat, I just need some space and time to think. Walk away, don't engage.

When ex and I were at the same stage you are in I made him sleep on the floor in the basement. Yep.

No regrets, DG. Do what you feel you need to do because when the time comes, you will feel peace about how you handled this. When I look back I have no regrets whatsoever.

Just don't ever tell her about the VAR. My lawyer made me promise to destroy it and never tell anyone.


BS, 54 Divorced 2012
I read and walked for miles at night along the beach, writing bad blank verse and searching endlessly for someone wonderful who would step out of the darkness and change my life. It never crossed my mind that that person would be me.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jun 2014
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 7:35 PM, July 11th (Friday)

I just need the info for me. WS will only admit to proof that she thinks I have. Now, she's taken it a step further by denying everything, even if proof is in front of her.
If I can get OM info and he's married, I will tell his wife. If he works for her office, I will tell the entire office, as well as the umbrella company that they are under.
Scorched earth. If I'm losing everything, I'm taking WS and everyone involved, down with me.
See if anyone with with a grudge, comes out of the woodwork.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:17 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 7:44 PM, July 11th (Friday)

Deceived

That's the correct attitude . You are changing from from "DeceivedMan" to "Smart Man With Balls" right before our eyes.

Keep it that way


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Salt
Member
Member # 43726
Default  Posted: 7:50 PM, July 11th (Friday)

My story, DG:
Ex lied to me about taking a business trip, and I put the recorder in the car because I wanted the truth. When he returned I got it from the car and took the dog on a walk and listened for a long time. I was deeply hurt, yet relieved to know for certain. No more doubt, no more of his lies to me.

When I returned from listening to the tape I didn't say anything, I just kept my distance. Ex was watching me closely and pounced on me saying, what is wrong with you tonight? You won't talk to me.

I looked at him squarely and said, I know, Mr. Salt. He said you know what. I said I know everything. I didn't tell him I knew about their conversations I just reported that I knew he was with mow and wasn't where he said he was and that he'd been lying. He asked me how I knew and I said that was none of his concern. I said I am done and asked him to go pack his bags.

He kept asking me how I knew and I said it doesn't matter how and that it was none of his concern. He asked if I used a PI. I said no. He asked If I installed a gps tracker in his car. I said no. Interesting it never occurred to him I might have recorded him so he never asked and I never told him.

I went downstairs and watched a movie with D. He went beserk in the car tearing it apart, trying to find a gps tracker or whatever. Of course there was nothing there and I enjoyed watching him literally tear the car apart, but find nothing.

A few days later he called and pressed again about a gps tracker or a PI. I said I did neither which was true. He said that he had taken the car to Car Toys to see if he could have it swept and a gps tracker discovered if one was there. They told him yes but it would cost $1000. Lol.

I still laugh about that. Even to this day it makes me laugh.

I needed to do it for my own peace of mind. I knew what they said to each other about me. I packed his belongings in matching luggage (black garbage bags) and put them in the garage, and changed the locks on the house.

And I never looked back....but I cried and cried from the loss.
And the story is even more funny.....I left a part out but here it is:

It was scary and stressful doing the stealth thing in getting the recorder in and out of the car without him knowing. Not so easy ya know. So I was trying to figure out how I was going to get it in the car as he was leaving for his "business" trip. Fortunately at the last minute he parked behind my car and blocked me in the driveway. Seizing my opportunity I jumped into his car and took off to the store....’to get a movie’....I tested the recorder, yep worked perfectly. Shaking, I put it above in between the driver and passenger seat where the sunglasses box is. Ex never used it. Risky but it was the ideal location.

When I got back he was freaked out and panicky, where did I go, why did I take his car??? I said, well, you blocked my car and I wanted to get a movie. Is there a problem that I took your car?? Oh no, no it's alright. (Can you imagine this exchange? Me studying him like a bug and him just trying to maintain composure).

So he took off for 2 days and we spoke on the phone like we usually did. Hi honey, how are you he says. I miss you and I love you he says. I will try to get back early he says. Sweetness and light.

So he gets back. Now how am I going to get the recorder out of the car I wonder? Then I hit on an idea. I took my bike to the shop so it would be fixed and ready for me to ride it for the summer. It was ready so I said, can we go pick up my bike from the shop? He says why sure darling! Then he stops at the gas station and goes inside to get a diet coke. Quick! Grab the recorder I think! So I grab it out of the box and throw it into my bag. Whew! Did he see me??? No, I don't think so. I am a nervous wreck!!

My purse is in my lap and we get home. We are talking in the car and we turn the engine off, but don't get out of the car. In the background I can hear something, sounds like the radio. No, the car is off, there is no radio. Ex says, what is that sound? We both stop. I say I don't know, then it hits me, somehow the recorder has gone off in my purse and it is playing back ex and mow's conversations!!! Lol.

I jump out of the car and say, I don't hear anything and somehow manage to turn it off. Go into the house, run upstairs, grab the recorder and the dog and say I'm taking him for a walk. And then I listen. I hear him call me and talk sweetly and lovingly to me. Then I hear him talk to my ex-friend mow and the both of them plot against me. I hear them make fun of me because I believed his lies. I hear them worry, but wait, did I know something? Should they cancel their mid-week tryst? Where was her H (also my good friend), was he following them to report on them and tell me? So they drove over to his house…nope he is there and not following them. The whole evening spent worrying about mowh and me discovering them. Then they went somewhere to spend the night together. Wow. My universe tilts on edge.

Why did I put myself through all of this ridiculousness? This pain? I could have just told him he wasn't being transparent and stopped the cat and mouse game. I did it because I needed to know. I wanted to know beyond a doubt. I was tired of being told they were just friends BS. I was tired of his games. And it gave me the courage to throw him out for the second time (false reconciliation) and really and truly not look back.

Looking back on it now, I had all of the information I needed at the time. Setting up the recording was really to confront myself with the truth. I wanted to believe him. I did what I needed to do, what was right for me. It was empowering because it enabled me to release myself. No more doubt, it freed me, and it broke me at the same time.

Mowh told everyone about them. Mow lost every single friend but one. Ex lost every single friend but two. I got the house, the dog, and a new life. And it's OK DG.


BS, 54 Divorced 2012
I read and walked for miles at night along the beach, writing bad blank verse and searching endlessly for someone wonderful who would step out of the darkness and change my life. It never crossed my mind that that person would be me.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jun 2014
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 8:50 PM, July 11th (Friday)

WOW, Salt! That was quite an ordeal. My greatest fear would be if she hit a pothole and it went off. I'll have to make sure the unit i buy has volume control or no playback.
I love the part where he rips the car apart!

I wont have any problem finding a good time to install and remove. WS started going to bed before me to avoid me, when she started the A. She got used to it. I am now going to bed later than her, to avoid her.

What a story. Thanks for posting. I dont have the ability to send PMs yet. I will after a few more posts. Thanks for going ahead and posting your story!


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 9:01 PM, July 11th (Friday)

BadHurt, thanks. As long as I have a gameplan, i'm good. I'm sick of what my WS has done, and is doing. I didnt do anything to deserve this.

This evening while picking her up from a pool party, without any prompt from me, one of my D's told me she liked me more than mommy. It was (probably) because, when my wife detached for her A, she detached from the entire family. My girls saw the shift in the little details, late night at work every night, daddy losing massive weight...

They knew something was up. They often hugged and kissed me for no reason. Not like before, though. Even though I put on my best act to be the fun, loving, immature dad I always was, I think they sensed something was wrong with me. I lost over 40 lbs in less than a month.

Anyway, WS has destroyed the lives of the only three people in this world who would never hurt her. The three people who love her more than any other person on this earth.

She deserves to lose all three of us.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:44 PM, July 11th (Friday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
HobbesTheTiger
Member
Member # 41477
Default  Posted: 2:18 AM, July 12th (Saturday)

Hi!

So sorry to hear what you've been going through. I strongly recommend you start reading threads of other BHs on this site to figure out what measures to take to protect yourself. I recommend starting with Abbandondad and Allatsea. Also, start posting on "Betrayed men" in the "I can relate" sub-section of this forum, it's really great.

Some quick suggestions:
1. Carry a VAR on you at all times - to prevent her from falsely accusing you of being violent...
2. Get yourself in individual counselling!
3. Get your kids in family counselling! It will be beneficial and hopefully it will look positive in the eyes of the court in the case of a custody battle. If it's too expensive, try to find a subsidized therapist or covered by insurance.
4. If the kids are in school/kindergarden, talk to their teachers about the situation (you're divorcing etc.), ask them to pay more attention to them, to notify you of what you can do to help them. Also, some schools have counsellors who can talk to your kids. This will help them, plus you can use those people to testify on your behalf in a custody battle.
5. Also, there are support groups for people going through divorce - google them and join them. Find out if there are support groups that you could attend with your kids.
6. Start documenting your care of the kids, and the "care" of the WW for the kids. How much time either one of you spends with them, what they do, what are the good/bad things she does in regards to the kids etc., how much free time she could spend with them, but didn't etc. Also, try to write up what her behaviour was like during the affair! This is essential - other threads/BHs/attorney will give you more advice.
7. Read No more mr. nice guy by Robert Glover, it's available online in PDF.
8. Read Toxic parents by Susan Forward (online in PDF) - it will help you to deal with your childhood issues and it will help you to help your kids deal with them.
9. Read Families and how to survive them by Skynner, it's a great book.
10. Don't drink AT ALL, the last thing you want to do is get drunk, it would cause you lots of problems.
11. Talk to friends&family in real-life. Tell them about the problems, vent,... You need a strong social network of support!

Ok, so much thus far, I'm sure others, more experienced will give great advice. Best of luck


BxBf, 26
Lots of FOO&other issues, working it through therapy
Legal profession

Posts: 518 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Continental Europe
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 3:01 AM, July 12th (Saturday)

thanks hobbes


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 7:43 AM, July 12th (Saturday)

SEX and 180
This morning WS asked how my IC went yesterday, and how I'm doing (coping with A). This seems to be as a result of distancing myself from her. She NEVER talks about any aspect of the A, or how i'm coping. Weird!
I also jumped out of bed, when I'd normally wait there as long as possible to either wait for a chance at sex, or ask for it.
I told her (with a smile) I am doing great and she said, "it doesn't seem like it".
I think she was hoping for some explanation of my recent detachment. I said I was fine, and went downstairs.
I know many of you won't understand however, even though I suspect there's another or continuing A, and even though she just lays there, not participating (ever since admitted A), I still really really really want to have sex with her. I do feel some remorse after, knowing that she doesnt want it. I often regret it after. Sex has always been really important to me. And every inch of my WS's 44-year old body is perfect to me. I still desire her like crazy, even with this situation surrounding us.
It was INCREDIBLY tough, proactively avoiding sex with her. Oh man!
Last night she tried snuggling me, out of the blue. I pulled away. She tossed and turned with audible heavy sighs. At some point during the night, I rolled over and put my arm on hers (half asleep) and she grabbed my arm, wrapped her arms around it, and tucked it under her. When I realized what I was doing, I pulled my arm out and went downstairs for awhile.
I am feeling hatred towards my WW this morning, for completely f-ing up my life!


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 7:59 AM, July 12th (Saturday)

KEEP IT UP DG!! Your doing well. The more you keep doing this for yourself, the more detached you become, the less pain you will feel. Remember that this is about you.

That said, she's not remorseful. She knows she has you wrapped around her little finger. She's starting to see the consequences with you of her actions and she doesn't like it. Don't be surprised if she starts to up her game more in order to get your attention. DON'T BUY INTO IT WHEN SHE DOES!!!

Stay strong DG.

yop

eta - typos

[This message edited by yearsofpain25 at 8:00 AM, July 12th (Saturday)]


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2463 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
ChangeMaker
Member
Member # 43899
Default  Posted: 7:59 AM, July 12th (Saturday)

Now it seems you're getting the hang of it! But remember, the 180 is for you, not her. Her response to it is not the point. It's to allow you to detach emotionally so you can do what you need to do for YOU.

While it's not really positive to feel hatred, you haven't really indicated this before, which shows that you are detaching and starting to see things from a different place.

I'm no expert, but it seems to me that you are finally headed in the right direction. No sex with her no matter how much you want it! Beat that thing like it owes you money if you have to, but NO SEX with her.


"Everything works if you let it." - Travis W. Redfish

DDay - June 7, 2014
Me - 43
WW - 41
DD - 6 and 3
Pulling the Plug


Posts: 438 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: Ontario
Tren0R201
Member
Member # 39633
Default  Posted: 8:14 AM, July 12th (Saturday)

Deceived guy make note, this has nothing to do with you. She's trying to maintain her balance and control as you continue your detachment. You'll note she hasn't actually made a move on you sexually, just seeking that physical reassurance that she still has control.
As the detachment hopefully grows from your end and you stop feeding her ego and trying to fix her, then the real tests will begin. She either will test if this new authority over yourself is real, provocation or she'll be ultra sweet one minute and when you fall for the bait, pull away again.
Absolutely do not have sex with her!! You will regret it afterwards as it will set you back after such hard work on your part.
Keep strong pal!

Posts: 279 | Registered: Jun 2013
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 8:39 AM, July 12th (Saturday)

thanks. i really need your support. if i didn't have you all, i would easily give in. She just offered to get my pain meds, water, and something to eat. I declined and got my meds, myself. She seemed taken aback.
I don't know if 180 implies this, but I'm trying to decline any help she offers.
And I'm not doing this to get reactions from WS, but I feel the need to report her actions and responses because this is so out of the ordinary from what I've been experiencing with her. So far she has been acting exactly as you all have predicted.
So you think she'll keep getting nicer and more accommodating like a spider trying to lure a fly?


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 8:45 AM, July 12th (Saturday)

DG

It is ok to be hurt. To be angry.

The key is to vent here.

Trust your Gut!

It has not failed you so far.

A var in the car is key. Doing a successful 180 is key for you.

You need to show your wife that you no longer accept her lies and infidelity.

And It most likely will take serving her before she acknowledges that and makes any positive steps to fixing her selfishness.

She might not come back to the marriage. But right now it is not much of a marriage.

But you cannot control her. You can only control you.

You are doing great. Stay tough and stop thinking of sex with her. For now.

She needs to see that she no longer holds all the cards, even the sex one. And please remember she has been handing out the sex one way to freely to others IMO.

HM


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 8:52 AM, July 12th (Saturday)

She's going to try and Hoover you. Please read this:

Hoovering- Don't Get Sucked Back In
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=480828

She is loosing control and she knows it. This is a power thing for her. Keep doing the 180 for you so that you can get to a stronger mental state and make sound decisions without having to feel codependent about it. You are doing well.

Keep reporting back if you need to.

yop


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2463 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 8:55 AM, July 12th (Saturday)

And please remember she has been handing out the sex one way to freely to others IMO.

HP,
This has been my biggest motivator. Ironically, the thing that has destroyed our marriage (sex) is my kryptonite. It's the hardest thing to battle. And I'm sorry if this is crude, but my right hand is out of commission due to surgery last Monday.
This has been the toughest part of distancing.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, July 12th (Saturday)

YOP,
I just read about Hoovering. It DOES feel like she's genuinely trying to go "over and above" for me. On the other hand, one of the people in her work life who i suspect may be another OM, is her newly hired assistant, half her age, good looking. She made it a point during original A, that during interview, the assistant will do anything for his boss. I figured at the time, she was practically telling me that she was in the process of hiring a new sex partner.
I told her I felt that way. She always ignored my jealousy towards him (he working for her, the week i confronted her with proof of last A).
Anyway, she was writing notes for work this morning, and when she left to take D to violin, she left a task list for him (new assistant), that she is compiling, on her laptop.
I suspect she did this on purpose because I've been displaying this independence and detachment.
Another problem....EVERYTHING seems like a component of a mind game or something to be analyzed. Everything is a "thing". I can't just go about my day, not analyzing everything.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:15 AM, July 12th (Saturday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 9:25 AM, July 12th (Saturday)

Don't buy into her nonsense. She's trying to make you jealous of what she is doing. She knows your fears and weaknesses. She is trying to play you. You can see it plain as day. Keep doing the 180 and don't get sucked into her head games.

However, YOU are not playing games. Always be short and courteous. You have a big week coming up exploring your options and learning your rights. Keep telling yourself that she is actively in an affair and that you are finding your way out infidelity, not just for you, but for your kids. This is for your family. Get the hell out of infidelity that your WW put you in. Get mad if you have to...just keep your temper under control. YOU CAN DO THIS!

When it comes to sex, how many guys are here in this thread with you cheering you on saying keep doing the 180? Imagine us in the room with you shaking our heads saying don't do it, we are watching you when it comes to the sex part. Maybe that will help you stay strong.

You can so this. Chin up. Unwavering. Fight for your family and stay strong.

yop

eta - typo

[This message edited by yearsofpain25 at 9:30 AM, July 12th (Saturday)]


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2463 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, July 12th (Saturday)

She made it a point during original A, that during interview, the assistant will do anything for his boss.
I can see a lawsuit in the future if she isnt careful.

She might think your reaction to her is that you are having an affair. Which is good, let her think for a while.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 1:16 PM, July 12th (Saturday)

180 and jealousy
My wife has been on work email for quite awhile. I'm paranoid about who she is writing to. Normally, I'd start getting moody and after our blow-out about electronics i might even tell her that it's a trigger which is amping up my anxiety.

I'm trying to keep my distance and act happy and content.

I was going to step out and take the kids to the mall and she invited herself.

I have got to physically get away from her.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 1:29 PM, July 12th (Saturday)

Gently, and not to bash you. I am a BS, but your posts have really struck a nerve with me about the sex issues. By all means I don't condone what your wife is doing. Sounds like she is going through a mid-life crisis, but has chosen that path for the rest of her life. (Mostly due to the fact that she went back to work and has abandoned her children in the process) You are doing great on 180. I hope it brings her around to her family. But, anyways- I just wanted to point out a major issue: SEX

True test will be if i cant slip out of bed fast enough in the morning, to avoid sex invitation. although like i said before, its not really sex, its early morning (weekend-only), get it over with as fast as possible, her laying there unresponsive, physical interaction.
I have to be strong if i dont make it out of bed before potential invitation (meant to pacify me).

What type of relationship is that for you both? How could she be into you if that is what intimacy is like for both of you?

I was glad to hear you feel bad for it afterward. I am sure she feels horrible during. You are having sex when she isn't clearly into it. This is only going to make her pull away from you more. It will build resentment. The same resentment you feel for her because she isn't into it. How will your M ever heal, regardless of whether she is still having an A?

I was so relieved to hear that you have said "no" to the "pacify" sex. IMHO-no more sex! Not, until you both feel the passion or there will never be any intimacy in your relationship. Just resentment. Neither of you are showing an ounce of respect for each other when it comes to sex. You need that intimacy, but you are taking it knowing full well that she doesn't want to give it. How do you think that makes her feel? What do you think that is doing for the M? Why would she want to R or be with you if you are "in her eyes showing disrespect"? Sex/intimacy is probably a big part of her A issues. She isn't going to want to be with someone she feels obligated to have sex with.

Continue the 180. See the lawyer. Continue to detach. Show her a man that she will want. Go to IC, to help you detach from her and no longer need her.

She loves the attention. She loves the chase. Stop chasing (and maybe she will notice and chase you back and give up these other men). Assuming that after you detach, you still want her.

I think you are doing everything right (except the sex respect thing). We vets- can be a bit pushy due to experience. We tend to overlook the time it takes for these changes to take effect. Glad to hear you are getting to the anger phase.

IMHO, I hope you detach enough to let her go and find a woman that will not take to you for granted and will feel honored to be with you intimately.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 1:56 PM, July 12th (Saturday)

HM,
I have stopped having sex with her for the last week. I believe she doesnt want to have sex with me because there is another OM, or underground previous OM.
I don't believe she wants me at all.
I doubt she'll chase me. I'm trying to keep my distance.
Right now I'm experiencing anxiety from 180.
Sticking with it.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 2:10 PM, July 12th (Saturday)

DG,

You KNOW there is another man or she would be doing more than just obligatory sex. The fact that you are accepting knowing that is good.

The feeling you have now is NOT going to go away until you file for D. At that point you will get an immediate and probably correct notion of exactly what is going on in her head.

until then, she will continue to fuck with your mind because she knows she can and she has all the cards right now. Hopefully, you end that SOON.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
crisp
Member
Member # 34236
Default  Posted: 3:22 PM, July 12th (Saturday)

Although I wholeheartedly agree that sex at this time is counterproductive, I disagree with the tone of hopefulmother's criticism. She said something to the effect that you are being disrespectful of your WW when you have sex with her. Boy that is harsh. I have not seen anything from you indicating you are forcing yourself upon WW. The disrespect seems to be in one direction. If she respected you she would literally and figuratively be "bending over for you," or alternatively, cut you off entirely in the context of dissolving the marriage. It is extremely disrespectful to deny a spouse intimacy when both are healthy and purportedly attempting to make a marriage work.


Endeavor to persevere. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csEzTwKemwY

Posts: 466 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: NE US
swizzlestick03
Member
Member # 30102
Default  Posted: 3:41 PM, July 12th (Saturday)

So proud of you! The unfortunate part, of course, is that it is all so predictable.

So prepare for the next part--the anger and lashing out. What she is doing right now is trying to regain her "hand" (Seinfeld reference for some humor!) and when she realizes that ship has sailed, she is going to react like a petulant child, temper tantrums and all. Please know that is just par for the course.

As for sex--I completely understand. My fWh and I are a
mismatch in that department--I would be very happy with many more performances where he is fine with the average. I know I have a much higher than average drive so it is just something I had to work through when I was in your spot. It takes time, but it will get better.

Hand is something that is hard to give up. By taking the options away from her and taking control of your future (the best you can) is the only way to reconcile the feelings of helplessness. She is going to have a VERY hard time learning and realizing she has lost the upper hand. Please, please prepare for the fallout.

You may want to check out some of the guys in D/S -- Abbondad, Allatsea, SeanFl -- those names pop to the top of my head in experience in the petulant child department, though I suspect we have more than enough folks within this own thread who can write a book on their experience!


Me: BW-33
Him: WS-32
D-Day #1: 16 August 2010
D-Day #2: 16 January 2011
One smallish kiddo.

Posts: 572 | Registered: Nov 2010
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 5:50 PM, July 12th (Saturday)

Ihave never forced myself on WW, sexually. In fact, on fathers day morning, she offered and i said, "only if you're actually into it', which prompted a huge argument.
I've expressed my concern that it was only in the morning, before she gets up to go to the bathroom, and she doesn't do anything. At first she said it was because she was stressed from huge piles of work at work, then it was because i lost so much weight i feel different. She used the weight excuse for almost a month. When we had the blow-out the other night from WW not showing me her electronics, she said she didnt use the weight excuse. The weight excuse was ACTUALLY referring to my comment that she awkwardly tried to figure out what to do with her hands.
NOW, it's because she needs to be emotionally connected to me.
OY VEY


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 5:58 PM, July 12th (Saturday)

Swizzle, the Seinfeld reference was perfect, actually. I'm trying to take that "hand" away from her.
The funny thing is, when the original A was in full swing, she seemed to pull a 180 on me. She never iniyiated "i love you", never asked for or accepted my help, basically ignored me. It was torture!
I've been doing that, in the last few days. Tonight she offered to make dinner for me and i declined. She was baffled. I said i was just going to have yogurt to start. She offered to cut up a banana and wash some blueberries. I said i might have a whole banana after the yogurt.
This is killing me. She acts really happy when i let her do something for me


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
swizzlestick03
Member
Member # 30102
Default  Posted: 6:00 PM, July 12th (Saturday)

My fWh needs the emotional connection too. I don't doubt you've ever forced anything upon her at all! I, on the other hand, really enjoy sex and don't need the connection to enjoy it. It does make it difficult.

That said, you've come so far and done such a great job. I know right now you are sort of in a "fake it till you make it" situation, but with every day that passes it will become more real and less fake. Keep that in mind as things get difficult. I know it is hard to imagine but you will come out of this ok! :)


Me: BW-33
Him: WS-32
D-Day #1: 16 August 2010
D-Day #2: 16 January 2011
One smallish kiddo.

Posts: 572 | Registered: Nov 2010
swizzlestick03
Member
Member # 30102
Default  Posted: 6:04 PM, July 12th (Saturday)

Of course she does. She is puzzled. She doesn't understand--she can't compute how you've gone from desperately wanting to save everything to basically a nice "eff you". That is the problem--when the bafflement wears off, it will turn to outrage. "How dare he not want me! Everybody wants me. Fuck him! I'll show him." It is just another common reaction in the book.

The more disinterested you are, the more she will cling (until she breaks. Then you get the tantrums and petulance.)

The good thing about that is after time, you really will become disinterested. It won't be just an act. Once you see the shenanigans act out before you, it is a lot easier to detach. It becomes quite ridiculous.


Me: BW-33
Him: WS-32
D-Day #1: 16 August 2010
D-Day #2: 16 January 2011
One smallish kiddo.

Posts: 572 | Registered: Nov 2010
crisp
Member
Member # 34236
Default  Posted: 6:47 PM, July 12th (Saturday)

Yep. Swizzle nailed it.


Endeavor to persevere. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csEzTwKemwY

Posts: 466 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: NE US
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 7:00 PM, July 12th (Saturday)

If that is what I can expect, I'm dreading it. So much pain already.
I don't know if I'm strong enough to release the kracken!


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
redsox13
Member
Member # 43391
Default  Posted: 7:01 PM, July 12th (Saturday)

I have been following the thread. Kudo's for sticking to the 180 - which is really hard. But with each successive day you get a little more time where it doesn't bother you as much.

It was amazing what happened after I went a week. That feeling of desperation - which was all encompassing, actually began to fade.

The one thing I would emphasize is the 180 isn't really about winning her back in my opinion. It's learning to make your happiness not depend on other people.

[This message edited by redsox13 at 7:15 PM, July 12th (Saturday)]


BS - 45
WW - 43
In R for 5 years, still hurting but finally letting go

Posts: 328 | Registered: May 2014 | From: nh
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 7:04 PM, July 12th (Saturday)

And remember, the one behavior you want to see from her near the end that will indicate any chance to fix your M is remorse. Tear gushing, snot slobbering, outpouring realization of the damage done to you, the kids, the family, and the M. Until you see that, she doesn't get it.
Every behavior between now and then is all about her self preservation and her own best interest, which got her into an A to begin with.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 653 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 7:28 PM, July 12th (Saturday)

I get it. As I said to someone in a private MSG, if I were to sit next to her right now, she'd put her arm around me and kiss me. I want that so badly.

I'm still on the other side of the room, BTW.

Stomach again in knots. Ugh.

sticking with it.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
redsox13
Member
Member # 43391
Default  Posted: 8:02 PM, July 12th (Saturday)

I know you have a bad hand - but I found taking walks helpful - just getting out of ww presence was useful.


BS - 45
WW - 43
In R for 5 years, still hurting but finally letting go

Posts: 328 | Registered: May 2014 | From: nh
swizzlestick03
Member
Member # 30102
Default  Posted: 8:05 PM, July 12th (Saturday)

But you really don't. You want your old wife, which I get. But the person sitting next to you is not her. The person sitting next to you has hurt you repeatedly KNOWING she was doing just that and NOT CARING one bit.

I understand wanting to feel wanted and loved--you deserve both of those things. But she is not capable of giving you that today. It would be cheap and you would feel disgusted after the fact. Been there, done that before he pulled his shit together. I felt so used and there wasn't even sex and that point. It made me feel desperate and like the 2nd choice.

You are worth a true partnership where you are both loving and respectful. Don't forget that.


Me: BW-33
Him: WS-32
D-Day #1: 16 August 2010
D-Day #2: 16 January 2011
One smallish kiddo.

Posts: 572 | Registered: Nov 2010
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 8:28 PM, July 12th (Saturday)

I get it. As I said to someone in a private MSG, if I were to sit next to her right now, she'd put her arm around me and kiss me. I want that so badly.
Of course you want that, but don't forget, you also want and need to know who the hell she has been texting or emailing with all night.

You also need to look at her electronics without her throwing a temper tantrum.

You could have her make your dinner, cut your banana, hug you, and be very sweet to you, but ask to see what she has been emailing and its time for duck and cover type anger.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 8:36 PM, July 12th (Saturday)

Swizzle, I'm going to be 49 next week. I agree with you 100%, but honestly, I'm afraid I'll never find someone else. Again, I'm holding myself to the 180. The thought of being alone is mortifying and making my eyes well up, as I type this.

I'm still on the other side of the room from WW. She will go to bed soon. I'm going to stay up and work on my paper for class (can't believe I'm taking a tough college course during this). The 180 continues...

As desperate as I feel, the 180 is washing the stench of desperation off of me.

I predict I'm going to be on SI ALLLLLLLL night.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 8:41 PM, July 12th (Saturday)

RedSox, I agree. If it wasn't raining, I'd be doing that right now!

Craig, she will not give in. The next time I ask, will be when I serve those papers, most likely,


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 9:01 PM, July 12th (Saturday)

...then stay on SI all night...

I have to say you are doing well. I'm impressed.

IMO, one thing to keep in mind is that in some ways your WW is like an animal now. Her while world view is dominated be her feelings and instinct for survival and disconnected from rational views of right and wrong.

The hovering is in some ways just an emotional impulse to deal with the situation. She wants feelings of calm and normalcy, she hoovers you. She wants feelings of joy and giddiness, she texts OM.

BTW, have you ever heard of Match.com? I was feeling like you once. I signed on to the site to see what was out there. Lets just say there are a lot of fish in the sea. Fear of being alone: gone.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 9:02 PM, July 12th (Saturday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 901 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 9:05 PM, July 12th (Saturday)

You guys are so spot-on.
WW just went to bed. I've kept my distance. If she wanted a kiss goodnight (as brief as I'd make it), she'd have to come downstairs.

I'm working on this paper, due tomorrow. Every time I take a class, my world is turned upside-down. This time it;s been right hand surgery (I'm right-handed), my grandmother died (spent half the week driving to and from the East Coast, and caught my WW in an A.

With no prompting from me, my WW came downstairs, gave me a goodnight kiss (i made it a non-lingering one), and she APOLOGIZED for being the biggest factor in my being so behind in my schoolwork.
That is the SECOND time today she referenced the A, as opposed to the last month and a half of not acknowledging it at all!

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:16 PM, July 12th (Saturday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 9:15 PM, July 12th (Saturday)

MC_JACK,
I havent looked at any dating sites. Maybe I should, just for some optimism. Before I found SI, I had looked at cheating sites like Ashley Madison, and considered going to bars to try and find someone to help me transition away from my WW.

Problem 1 - I am not a cheater. I couldn't even cheat on my cheating wife. I've never cheated in my life, not even back in high school.
Problem 2 - If somehow I could; getting caught would have bad implications including, potentially affecting custody.

It cant hurt to look for the sake of taking some of the hopelessness away, though.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:47 PM, July 12th (Saturday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 10:01 PM, July 12th (Saturday)

NO...don't look. If she saw that, it would either make her angry or she may double her energy into her A. She would most likely attribute your 180 as you having an A yourself.

Crisp: I am well aware that my comment sounded harsh. I never once said he forced himself upon her. He was very clear about that. I was merely stating that "obligatory" sex was just going to do more harm than good. I am sure I am not the only one out there that would acknowledge that it would build resentment on both parts. I believe that if both parties felt that resentment, than both parties would be disrespected.

Part of that harshness comes from my own relationship issues during my fWH's EA. I could tell my fWH had withdrawn emotionally, but he still wanted sex. I was usually not into it (on an intimate level we had become estranged due to his A) and had "obligatory sex". After the A came to light I realized that by doing so...I disrespected myself and had resentment towards him for being so pushy when I clearly was not into it on an intimate level. Honestly, during the A it seemed like all he wanted me for was sex. He ignored me, our children, and M on the emotional level and day to day lives. But, I might add that on many days I was really just so exhausted from being a STAHM to an infant and toddler with an absent father/husband to have the energy to have sex and enjoy it at the same time (that was something I identified with your WW). Though you would know more if it was due to OM or her exhaustion from work/life.

Regardless, it sounds like she is beginning to thaw out a bit...I wouldn't be surprised if she is the one to cave in first. (kiss goodnight-sounds like a good start) Though be wary that it may be all about the chase with her. Once she gets the attention, she may 180 back to A mode again.

Kudos for making it a week. If she is having an A,than it is probably safer for you anyways.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 10:17 PM, July 12th (Saturday)

I referred to match.com because it is a legit OLD site. Ashley Madison is not as we all know. I noticed merely that there were a lot of single people looking for REAL relationships. So again, lots of fish in the sea for when I became SINGLE.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 10:20 PM, July 12th (Saturday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 901 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 11:02 PM, July 12th (Saturday)

MC_Jack.
Just got off Match.com. Not looking for anyone; again, i don't cheat. It WAS very cathartic, though. One of my fears when it comes to sticking up for myself with WW, is the fear that once I get over her, I'll never find anyone else.
Having a look reassured me that once this mess is over, if we don't R, there are plenty of women in my area, looking.
I don't want anyone other than my WW. I want to grow old with her, but if she doesn't change her cheating ways, it's good to know I stand at least a snowball's chance in hell, of eventually meeting someone else.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
mhca
Member
Member # 41920
Default  Posted: 11:14 PM, July 12th (Saturday)

I got on match.com for the same reason. To assure myself that if it's over with WW that there are indeed many fish in the sea. Seeing a bunch of pretty faces and reading a bit about them was enough to assure me. I closed the account without ever doing anything but reading the profiles and looking at the pictures.

My brain knew I'd be fine, but somehow I need to actually see the profiles to feel it.

EDIT: In retrospect I know that browsing OLD sites can be a risk especially when you're in an emotional state. For me it seemed fine. I have no desire to start a relationship any time soon. If you think you're vulnerable, I'd avoid it.

[This message edited by mhca at 12:09 AM, July 13th (Sunday)]


Me: BH 47 STBXWW 47 (Lklb5)
M 19 years, DS 15, DS 11
DD#1: 12/24/2013
TT/Broke NC/False R
DD#2: 4/15/2014
TT 4/23, 4/24, 5/31, 7/19
Divorcing

Sample recovery plan, feedback welcome: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=539961


Posts: 902 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: California
swizzlestick03
Member
Member # 30102
Default  Posted: 11:25 PM, July 12th (Saturday)

49 isn't old at all! As you get through this process, the nice thing is being able to assess what you really want and need in a relationship going forward. I know it is hard to imagine, and whether it is your wife or in a new relationship down the line, you will be able to really build the relationship you need.

:)

FWIW, I got my MBA during all of the fall out. You can do it!


Me: BW-33
Him: WS-32
D-Day #1: 16 August 2010
D-Day #2: 16 January 2011
One smallish kiddo.

Posts: 572 | Registered: Nov 2010
worried_lady
Member
Member # 27605
Default  Posted: 11:34 PM, July 12th (Saturday)

For gosh sake get healthy and finish this relationship before you get on a dating site and drag a possible single decent person into the pile of crap you have going on.

Another person will not make you whole. You have to do that yourself.

IC, IC, IC


Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over it became a butterfly.

Posts: 478 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: Texas
norabird
Member
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 11:50 PM, July 12th (Saturday)

It's very hard to contemplate losing a relationship and partner when you are used to having both and being single is scary. But, for one thing, being single is preferable to being with someone who is actively hurting you! And it's also not as scary as you think it is.

That doesn't mean go browse OLD sites...but it does mean that it's very empowering to realize that your worst fears are just that--fears. They aren't based on reality any more than the childhood fear of a monster under the bed.

Stay strong.


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4235 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 6:30 AM, July 13th (Sunday)

SWIZZLE,
I can barely concentrate on this one class. I'm seriously impressed that you earned your degree during that time. I don't know how you focused, but that is amazing!

WORRIED_LADY,
like I stated above, i'm not interested in getting involved with anyone else, E or P. I logged on to reassure myself that there is the slightest possibility that I won't be alone for the rest of my life after this nightmare is over. I can't imagine my WW changing her tune, so I'm faced with the sad reality that this will most likely end up in D. I shut down my profile after looking.

NORA
thank you. That's all that this was about; reassurance.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 6:32 AM, July 13th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 6:40 AM, July 13th (Sunday)

180 in the morning;
WW and I both got up early this morning. WW hinted about sex, a couple times. She keeps asking if there is ANYTHING she can do for my hand. She emphasizes the word 'anything'.
I declined her offer to go 'back to bed' and i declined her offer to cook me breakfast.
She sat down next to me on the sofa, as i booted up my computer. She hasn't just sat down next to me in a long time. She looked at my hand, and put her arms around me for a big hug.

She is falling over herself to help me this morning. I haven't seen this behavior in at least a year.

I have to be honest, my mind was seriously trying convince me that she's ready to be affectionate and nice, and close...

This 180 business is torture.

I didn't give in. I barely hugged back.

Are my accounts about this annoying? Should i be writing a journal instead?

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 6:45 AM, July 13th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
crisp
Member
Member # 34236
Default  Posted: 7:09 AM, July 13th (Sunday)

Not annoying in the least. Keep plugging away. Your posts, and the responses to them, help you AND the many newly hurt who are searching for help and don't know what to do. Some of those silent people will even sign up and share their stories.


Endeavor to persevere. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csEzTwKemwY

Posts: 466 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: NE US
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 7:18 AM, July 13th (Sunday)

If you feel that journaling would be beneficial to you, then by all means do it. But, I still think that you should be posting everything here too...if you are comfortable with that. Remember, the more information that we have, the more that we can possibly help you decipher what is going on.

I understand that right now, these are very confusing times. Your WW, if nothing else, has noticed a difference in your behavior, and is reacting to it. Whether her motives are selfish or selfless have yet to be determined.

But the bottom line is that trust is not being rebuilt. Unless she can understand that honesty, transparency, and empathy are needed to be given freely in a marriage, then you have no chance of getting back to where you want to be. Her actions are that of a remorseless spouse---do not be swayed by an offer of sex...or a holding of your hand. She needs to take deep, unprompted actions to find out why she was able to do what she has done to you. She needs to understand your pain...and try to help you through it. She needs to understand that while you love her like crazy, you can't settle for the current status quo.

Personally, my recommendation to you is to (1) continue the 180....if for NO OTHER REASON than to learn to overcome your fears. You are so scared of losing the life and wife that you had(believe me--I understand this FULLY), that you feel powerless. And while divorce may not be what you want, you will come to realize that it is not the worst outcome...otherwise, you should be happy right now that your WW is still in the house with you.

You deserve better. I really hope that the "better" that you deserve comes from your WW. I hope that she gets her "aha" moment in the very near future, and realizes what she potentially lost. The only problem is that she has to have this revelation on her own. All that you can do is protect yourself.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 22yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2143 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
swizzlestick03
Member
Member # 30102
Default  Posted: 7:23 AM, July 13th (Sunday)

Keep talking to us. We've all been there, done that! :)
Remember--this is her instinct and the second you give in and accept her gestures she will pull it back from there. She is only trying to figure out what is going to work to get what she wants, not what you need. Just keep that in mind.

You'll know when it is real--as everyone has said, snot bubbles, sobbing, truly willing to do whatever it takes. Settle for nothing less.


Me: BW-33
Him: WS-32
D-Day #1: 16 August 2010
D-Day #2: 16 January 2011
One smallish kiddo.

Posts: 572 | Registered: Nov 2010
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 7:30 AM, July 13th (Sunday)

I find this thread slightly disturbing…
I really don’t see any destination, any purpose in your actions.
And all the effort spent in validating that you might get sex elsewhere if this ends in divorce…
All the emphasize on vague words, trying to react to her reactions to your actions on her reactions…

Look – I’ve been around here since 2005. I have over 5000 posts. I’m a fairly well respected veteran with a good reputation as a result-driven hardliner.

I suggest you do this:
List what it is you want.

Do you want to reconcile?
Do you want to divorce?

IMHO your biggest issue isn’t if you still “got it” or if you can make it financially after divorce. Your biggest issue is that YOU DON’T KNOW:
You don’t know who OM is. It sounds as if you have some clue but you have no confirmation.
You don’t know if it’s over. You think it might be over with that suspected OM but you seem to think your wife is dishing it out to everyone and anyone at the office.
You don’t know if it’s over.
You don’t know if it’s over…
(Get it – not know it’s over IS a BIG ISSUE).

You don’t have accountability.
You don’t have her working on her issues.

YOU DON’T HAVE WHAT’S NEEDED TO MOVE ON – WITH HER.

Go back to my fist post on your thread.

The big difference to what I suggest and what others have suggested is that I am NOT suggesting you tell her that if she doesn’t meet certain standards you will divorce. You have tried that and frankly – waving a big stick only works if you are willing to thump her with it (figuratively speaking!). In my suggestion it’s not saying “do this or else I am going to do this” – It’s “I’m doing this. If you do THIS then I might change my actions but with or without you I am moving out of infidelity”.

This breaks the rut you are in right now. The rut where you act, she reacts, you react to her reaction, she reacts to your response, you react to that response…. And so on and so on.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5585 | Registered: Sep 2005
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 7:31 AM, July 13th (Sunday)

Thanks. I know that she still won't show me her electronics, which is what I use to snap me back into reality when my fantasy-come-true of her suddenly kissing my butt, convinces me that we've turned a page. It's a facade. It's such a nice facade, though. I wish things could be like this again. She is acting so nice and caring. I keep hiding in the bathroom to cry because I know this is just a reaction to the 180. Reactions which you all told me would happen, and you were correct.

I'm dreading the next phase that everyone told me would most likely happen; after a long enough period of me being distant and unresponsive to her butt-kissing, she will lash out.

I need strength, people. I know I sound like a broken record however, this is so hard. I talked to my IC (just stated) about potentially going on something like Zoloft.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 7:43 AM, July 13th (Sunday)

Bigger,
i do have a goal and a pupose to my actions. I have an appt with an attorney on tuesday. i'm getting my affairs in order and doing 180, to distance myself. i have two children and i've been a SAHD for 8 years. i can't just lay waste to everything. i am methodically lining everything up so when i confront her with showing me her electronics on the spot, i will have divorce papers behind my back when she says no.

i may not be effective in communicating the way i'm laying this out, but there is a clear goal;
R if she can be transparent and spill the beans, D if she can't.
i'm not going to just react though. i need to do this methodically. i love my W, and this is the most important situation in my life. The 180, is so i'm not completely destroyed if she chooses D over R.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:16 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 8:10 AM, July 13th (Sunday)

var in her car before & after she gets served.

you will see her real demeanor after.

you need to shock her with being served.

only then you will you begin to see her true actions without any influence from the 180.

and bigger is right about a plan.

And your plan must have steps past her getting served.

Stay 5 steps ahead of her. It is that shock & awe approach that could possible save your marriage.

If you feel inclined to do so after you have all the truth.

You have not even reached the anger stage yet.

Keep posting.....

HM


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 8:11 AM, July 13th (Sunday)

What we can tell from your wife's actions is that she appears to want her marriage and the exciting affairs. If she can control you, and keep you in the dark about her transgressions, she can have both.

When you refuse sex and apply the 180 she is losing her control, hence the affection in an attempt to get that control back. You refusing sex is very alarming to her, because in her opinion that is your achilles heel. Most of her power over you derives from your intense need for sex.

This isn't love she is demonstrating through all these hugs and kisses; its an attempt to reestablish control over you so she can continue cake-eating. A cynical act of greed. On one hand she has her family and comfortable life with you; and then the is the exciting liaisons with OM's which boost her ego and make her feel powerful. She is not going to feel remorse or empathize with your pain because she is focussed on her own needs. No apparent conscience and I don't know how you are going to get this woman to acquire one.


Posts: 1864 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, July 13th (Sunday)

i agree that my WW's A(s) is cake-eating. I have no illusion that she is going to magically want to give up her second life. I'm preparing for the reality of her response to my transparency demands.

I'd be lying if I said that I didn't want R. That would be a dream come true.

I'm working really hard to maintain distance, so i can move forward if that doesn't happen. This might be easy for others, and maybe most people don't understand my wanting sex from WW, even with these terrible circumstances, but I'm just being honest. I want to have sex with her even though i know how terrible I'll feel, afterwards.

I'M NOT having sex with her, though. It's been a week so far. I'm following the 180 plan, to the best of my ability. So far I have not given in to the illusion that WW cares. I know she's cake-eating. And it sucks, and I hate it, and it hurts...


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 9:06 AM, July 13th (Sunday)

i agree that my WW's A(s) is cake-eating.
It is obvious you want to R more than divorce, which has to mean you can forgive her for what you think she has done.

You need to get her out of the fantasy of an affair.

Affairs are easy, phony and too exciting. You have to make her affair(s) a living hell!

No more fun, no more excitement and no more easy.

I don't think you have even entered the anger phase yet. With more evidence, the OM name and if there are more and certainly if you were to ever see the things she texts and emails, you would most likely hit the anger stage.

The anger stage combined with action can be empowering. The anger stage with inaction can lead to serious depression.

Seeing your lawyer will give you more power back along with the 180.

She referenced the affair again twice this morning. That could be a good sign, usually, a WS will NOT reference the affair at all if they are still having one.

On the other hand, if she is not having an affair, why wont she let you see her electronics.

She is about to stubborn herself right into a nasty divorce.

Legal papers sure as hell should prove to her that you are very serious and not just avoiding her.

You need the names of the OM. You need to know what has gone on and what is going on.

Her being so nice to you makes me think her affairs were not emotional type affairs, I usually dont read on here of emotions for the AP and being nice to the BS at the same time.

In a physical affair, yes the WS can be nice to the BS.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
norabird
Member
Member # 42092
Default  Posted: 9:07 AM, July 13th (Sunday)

I don't think anyone expects you to to not want to R, emotionally. It's about being able to put aside what you want to happen in order to see whether it's even possible. And it's not. Her offering to make you breakfast is a way of distracting you from what, as Bigger said, you don't know. She wants to charm you into rugsweeping and she wants to keep everything about the A and possible OM underground. Wanting to R is natural but if you let her manipulate you that so that she is the one getting to cake eat you are going to be seriously, seriously fucked.

Can you take the kids out on your own today without her?


Sit. Feast on your life.

Posts: 4235 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: NYC
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 9:22 AM, July 13th (Sunday)

i agree with you all. as i've said, i've stuck to 180. i have kept my distance physically and emotionally.

i know that these acts of caring are simply strands of a spiderweb to keep me pacified.

i haven't given in, yet. I've even turned down every attempt by WW to help me.
She offers to cook a meal; 'no thanks, i'll get a yogurt',
she offers to type my paper for me because my right hand is out of commission; 'no thanks, i can manage'.
She offers to get a glass of water; 'no thanks, I'll get it'
She offers sex; 'no, thanks'... no explanation for that one... just a no.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
swizzlestick03
Member
Member # 30102
Default  Posted: 9:33 AM, July 13th (Sunday)

You are doing fine. Just hang in there. I know you want to R. So did I, in the beginning just the way you are. I didn't find SI until 3 months post d-day and the damage that I did to myself in those 3 months by doing basically the opposite of what we've told you is great. I'm still recovering that bit of my life--in retrospect I was so desperate to keep my pretty little life in tact that I begged, pleaded, and fought for someone who didn't even care. Very soul crushing.

That's why we've been so steadfast in telling you to 180 and file. Not because we want to see you divorce, but because we all know that if they aren't instantly remorseful (or closely thereafter) it is likely going to take a major act to possibly turn the tide.

For what it is worth, I think you are doing great. You do have a purpose, and right now, that purpose is wrapping your mind around the gigantic ball of shit your wife has served you.


Me: BW-33
Him: WS-32
D-Day #1: 16 August 2010
D-Day #2: 16 January 2011
One smallish kiddo.

Posts: 572 | Registered: Nov 2010
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 9:38 AM, July 13th (Sunday)

Deceived
Everyone has given you some good advice and ideas. I believe all of us can see how much better you are doing compared to how shaken and shattered you were when you first posted. You are starting to take control of you.
If you do not think your wife was actually working on business all evening on her computer, then she really is trying to humiliate and intimidate you to be doing that right in front of you.
The important thing now is that you CANNOT weaken now or you have drawn some emotional lines andet her cross them with no consequences. She is manipulating you, trying to pacify you like a baby with sex once a week, and her other nice gestures are to try to get some information from you as to what the hell you are thinking.
You need to put the VAR in her car BEFORE and after the papers are given to her. She be blabbing her head off before if she falls to her AP on phone on way home from work.
Believe me, if you can hear her you will have a much easier time moving to ANGRY , I mean really angry and have no hesitation.
She knows she could end all this pain and stuff with transparency. She also know she can't do that because of what it will reveal. That's why the answer is so obvious.
Get to the lawyer Tuesday

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 9:50 AM, July 13th (Sunday)

Remember if you are successful and she finally agrees to hand over her 'electronics' for scrutiny, they are all gong to be 'wiped clean'. Don't expect to derive any information from these sources.

Its more of a gesture to you that her communication devices are now available for examination, but she'll probably get a burner phone etc and find other avenues to satisfy her requirements.

Overall your problem remains the same - how to get your wife to respect you and care about your needs and opinions. There is unlikely to be any remorse until she is faced with the end of the marriage and believes utterly that you mean the end.


Posts: 1864 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Lostly
Member
Member # 43953
Default  Posted: 10:24 AM, July 13th (Sunday)

I have been following your thread, but haven't posted because you're getting some great advice. I am posting now because I wanted to chime in with the others and say that I think that you are doing really well. Most people on this forum would agree that they didn't have a clue how to deal with infidelity until they joined SI.

In the EIGHT DAYS that you have been on SI I see great progress. Putting the 180 into place is extremely difficult, especially when it is counterintuitive to previous behavior. Sometimes we forget how awful the initial trauma of the first few months is. Hang in there, your doing great!


BW 48 - Multiple d-days
Divorced 2012 after 19 yrs
6 smart, beautiful, amazing kids Dd 19; Ds 17; Dd 15; Ds 13; Ds 11; Dd 10

Sometimes I hear my voice, and it's been here, silent all these years. I've been here, silent all these years.


Posts: 108 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Australia
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 10:41 AM, July 13th (Sunday)

If you do not think your wife was actually working on business all evening on her computer, then she really is trying to humiliate and intimidate you to be doing that right in front of you.

That exactly and possibly trying to make you jealous to get you to come out of the 180.

I didn't join this site till months after Dday. I started the 180 naturally during the anger phase. But, I am wondering if she may be thinking with your increased usage on SI if you are having an A? There have been posts on here where the WS convinces themselves that what they are doing the BS must be doing during the 180 or anger phase. Has she made any references to you being distant?

In addition,she knows something is up so she may be covering her butt right now and getting her own ducks in order.

You will know when her A is over and she truly wants to R. As stated in previous posts and when she shares the information about her A (the whos, whats, wheres, and whens).

That is a long process for some. My fWH's last TT was 18 months after Dday.

In addition are you in IC? If not, will you go? It will help you immensely with detaching and feeling more self confident about being on your own.

Congrats and keep up the good work on 180. You have the right mindset...it is not about actions and reactions and reactions to reactions. It is about detaching yourself emotionally from a hurtful spouse. You write like you know that and it shows that it is working for you. Do not feel like you may be alone forever. Just keep remembering that any woman would be lucky to have you. Hence, why you WW hasn't let you go and is stringing you along. She knows she has a wonderful spouse or she would have simply just left. She is just broken and the OM is easy.

Just remember that once and if R starts....it should be nothing like the last one. This time she needs to really focus on IC and fixing herself.

Anytime you feel weak....take that energy and focus it on your kiddos.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 11:18 AM, July 13th (Sunday)

I just started IC. We fired our MC because the MC wanted to rug sweep and only deal with moving on, not the actual A,along it's implications.

My WW doesn't know that I'm on IS. She knows that I'm incapable of an A, but even if I was capable, I am with my girls 24/7. There is no way for me to meet anyone and no time to carry on with an A.

I don't know that WW is emailing or texting OM(s) while sitting here in the family room with the family. She did prior to DDay, which is why I stated that she COULD be doing it. The mere fact that it's a possibility is a huge problem. Soon, it won't be, though.

Thanks for the encouragement and not just 2x4s. I need both, equally.

I've got clarity. I understand what WW is doing. I'm only human though, and have to keep forcing myself to keep my distance, both physically and emotionally.

I can't move forward with demands to WW until i see lawyers and get an idea of what i'm dealing with from a legal, custody, and financial perspective. I'm not dragging my feet. I have a lawyer appt this Tues. If I could figure it all out today, I would.

In the meantime, 180 is helping me keep my distance.

When i talk about wanting to be with my WW forever, that's how I feel, but I know that her behavior, the odds, and the cumulative experience of other SI vets, make that wish, the probability of R, highly unlikely. I'm hoping that the 180 detachment will lessen the pain of the inevitable, some day.

Between my WW's despicable behavior, deception, A(s), etc, along with the thought of some day NOT being with her, I'm in a constant state of gut-wrenching pain. Despair, hopelessness, abandonment, betrayal, etc...

She caused all of this, however, i am responsible for my own happiness. I'm doing the best I can. 180 is gut-wrenching also. I've been doing it, though. I hope it gets at least a little easier at some point!


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Tren0R201
Member
Member # 39633
Default  Posted: 11:19 AM, July 13th (Sunday)

I actually think OP has made good progress from the person in the first post who found themselves in this situation.

Emphasis have to be placed on baby steps with the 180. I'm still seeing way too much emphasis on what your wife is doing to you. 180 is not solely batting away her advances and being cold to her, you are actually supposed to be working on yourself and putting your needs and interests first.

You have your rubber band to snap you back to reality in the form of her refusal to give you full access to her "electronics"

If you're working on yourself and your own interests then it really doesn't matter how you answer, whether you're short with her or engage her in civil conversation, her actions will not impinge on your freedom to make independent decisions for your own good.


Posts: 279 | Registered: Jun 2013
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, July 13th (Sunday)

I don't know that WW is emailing or texting OM(s) while sitting here in the family room with the family. She did prior to DDay, which is why I stated that she COULD be doing it. The mere fact that it's a possibility is a huge problem.
This is the problem. I think you asked your wife who she was emailing and she said someone from work.

I always found the someone answer to be a lie. Everyone has a name. So why the someone at work answer.

If my wife asks me who I am emailing or texting, I just tell her, whether it is a male or female coworker, I tell her who.

Otherwise, it looks odd in the real world. But "someone" is perfectly normal in the hidden world.

During the affair it was always "nobody" or No one, or "someone". During an affair, there is never a name except Mr. No one, or Mr. Someone.

Next time she asks you what is wrong, just flatly tell her that her secrecy is making you ill.

No conversation needed. The fact is spoken and the point should be taken by her.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 11:59 AM, July 13th (Sunday)

Craig,
that might have been someone else's post you are thinking of. i didn't ask WW anything about what she's doing on her computer. I've been acting indifferent for 180. She can do whatever she wants. I don't care. Right now I'm only concerned with getting my head straight, and taking care of myself and my daughters.

I agree with your summation of "someone" and "no-one", though.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 11:59 AM, July 13th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 6:50 PM, July 13th (Sunday)

I've been doing well well with 180. Feeling empowered, but it hasn't been easy.
I am having an extreme anxiety attack right now. I feel like I'm going to throw up. Iwas watching TV with kids and WW.
Oh man, this is extreme pain.
I'm going to hide in a bathroom. Can't go out for a walk. Too many neighbors outside. Feel like I'm going to explode into tears.
This feels as bad as pre-DDay!


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Salt
Member
Member # 43726
Default  Posted: 7:25 PM, July 13th (Sunday)

DG,
Get a script for some xanax So when you feel overwhelmed like you do right now you can calm down. Good for you for not drinking. If you have a Tylenol PM take that to settle down.

REMEMBER TO BREATHE. Slow deep breaths. It's going to be OK. You are going to be OK. You really are.

You have the VAR, you will put it in her car tonight when she is asleep.

Remember, it's going to be OK.


BS, 54 Divorced 2012
I read and walked for miles at night along the beach, writing bad blank verse and searching endlessly for someone wonderful who would step out of the darkness and change my life. It never crossed my mind that that person would be me.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jun 2014
redsox13
Member
Member # 43391
Default  Posted: 7:27 PM, July 13th (Sunday)

Breathe you are going to be fine. It is going to get better, and probably faster than you know.

You are doing great - so much better than I ever did.


BS - 45
WW - 43
In R for 5 years, still hurting but finally letting go

Posts: 328 | Registered: May 2014 | From: nh
nomistakeaboutit
Member
Member # 36857
Default  Posted: 8:23 PM, July 13th (Sunday)

Get a script for some xanax So when you feel overwhelmed like you do right now you can calm down.

This ^^^^^^, or Valium, for the times you're really feeling the anxiety bad. It helps, a lot, during the really rough anxiety times.


Me: BH 58.........Her: WW 45
DD: 8..........DS: 5
Married for six years.
DDay: 12-25-11 Divorced: 7-15-12
...................................
"It's like a nightmare within a nightmare, which in and of itself is a nightmare!"

Posts: 968 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: U.S.A.
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 10:26 PM, July 13th (Sunday)

Thanks. I need anti anxiety meds.
We were watching Psych and one of the characters broke up with a cheating spouse or someone they were dating, and out of the blue, i lost it. And I was panicking because my WW and girls were sitting there. Among a million other thoughts, this will be over soon. My family will be over. No more. My WW totally f-ed up my and my girls lives and we didnt do anything to deserve this!
I didnt want to seem distraught a) so my girls didnt worry and B)because i'm doing the 180 and i didnt want my WW to know i'm falling apart.

For my hard-ass friends here, i didnt cry in front of her. still doing 180.
WW called while I was on my way home, to ask where i had gone. I told her i gassed up the car and drove around for awhile to sort some things out.
Came home and played cards with WW and one of my girls.
At bed time I layed down next to WW and the first thing that crossed my mind was, regardless of what has happened and what is most likely still happening, i will probably never have sex with my W again.
I immediately got up to go downstairs. WW asked if i'm okay, and if she had done something. I just said I have to go work on some college assignments.
And here i am, crying again as I type this.
This isn't fair, i didn't do anything wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:15 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
mhca
Member
Member # 41920
Default  Posted: 10:41 PM, July 13th (Sunday)

This isn't fair, i didn't do anything wrong....

It wouldn't be fair even if you had done wrong things.


Me: BH 47 STBXWW 47 (Lklb5)
M 19 years, DS 15, DS 11
DD#1: 12/24/2013
TT/Broke NC/False R
DD#2: 4/15/2014
TT 4/23, 4/24, 5/31, 7/19
Divorcing

Sample recovery plan, feedback welcome: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=539961


Posts: 902 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: California
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 11:00 PM, July 13th (Sunday)

Deceived,

This will be over shortly as far as getting so e answers on where she stands. You will NOT get anything off her computer because I am sure someone as manipulative as her is covering her tracks, especially if she has noticed you doing the 180.
You are so close. Don't back down now. Your only chance of her respecting you again is to stand up to her and fight the fight and she may realize what she will lose because of her actions .
You cannot sweep this under rug or the sick feeling will never go away


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 11:21 PM, July 13th (Sunday)

mhca,
i agree. what a rotten thing to do to someone.

badhurt,
I've stuck with it. All of my emotions are let loose in private.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 11:23 PM, July 13th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Salt
Member
Member # 43726
Default  Posted: 12:21 AM, July 14th (Monday)

It sucks DG. I'm sorry. You didn't deserve this. Bad things happen to good people. Good people suffer all kinds of loss. Whatever is served up, we must find a way through. That's our responsibility. To show up with integrity and values.

After I threw ex out I had to have three very difficult foot surgeries. I was unable to walk, had to stay off my feet for 6 weeks each surgery, then crutches for another 6 weeks, a boot for another couple of months. 3x. Major complications after each surgery. They each had to be done a year apart.

I was alone at this point, he left my house and went to hers…. My ex 'friend'. Husband of many years just vanished. I had a few friends who stepped in to help me after the first couple of days but I was on my own for months each time and it was rough. At several points I just felt that I could't find meaning to my life. What was the point of my life anymore? Relationships had always been so important to me, but without my central person I just felt like a rudderless ship.

I read at lot during that time. Viktor Frankl, Man's search for meaning was one of the books. Talk about suffering…Nazi concentration camps. I learned a thing or two reading that book that have stayed with me nearly every day since. I learned a friend of mine who came from communist Romania had read the book too, and one day she quoted a passage from it on FB. When I read the passage I replied, Viktor Frankl, to her surprise. How does one find meaning in the depths of despair. It certainly put my suffering into perspective. And gave me wisdom in how to handle it.

You will be OK. Just remember that.


BS, 54 Divorced 2012
I read and walked for miles at night along the beach, writing bad blank verse and searching endlessly for someone wonderful who would step out of the darkness and change my life. It never crossed my mind that that person would be me.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jun 2014
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 12:45 AM, July 14th (Monday)

Thanks Salt
My head is just spinning around right now. I don't know what happened. I have managed to stick to 180 and act indifferent and confident. All of a sudden, i felt just like i did when i found out, before i told WW i found out.
i may sleep on the sofa. i'm feeling very vulnerable and in the off chance WW offers sex, i cant say with confidence that i'll turn it down.

I can't believe i feel like this again. The pain never completely went away, but now I'm back to feeling hopeless, and knots in stomach tighter than ever.

I don't really have any friends nearby, except a mutual friend of WW snd mine. I had considered telling them so i had someone local i could hang out with, but i don't know what a good protocol would be, in this situation. I might be putting them on the spot because they are friends with both of us. They are very cool, though.
i don't know, I can't think straight.
Thanks so much for the support.
Still 180
appt with lawyer on Tues


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 12:59 AM, July 14th (Monday)

Don't tell anyone. Big mistake!!! They will tell her and everything you have done will be meaningless.
Gently, I am telling you Tuesday is very close, you will feel empowered on e you have the papers in your hand. Then you decide when she gets them.
I disagree with some of the others on some things. If you could just fuck her brains out without falling apart it would make her think she is back to normal and lower her apprehension at the change in your behavior.
But a I am advising you not to do that because you will not control yourself and you may even confess to everything you are planning.
YOU CANNOT DO THAT.!!!!!

Now gentle 2x4. Stop crying, you have done too much of that and if you don't stop what she is doing you will cry yourself to sleep and have that not in your stomach every day when she walks out the door.
Go back to the store tomorrow morning and get the correct VAR


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 12:59 AM, July 14th (Monday)

Don't tell anyone. Big mistake!!! They will tell her and everything you have done will be meaningless.
Gently, I am telling you Tuesday is very close, you will feel empowered on e you have the papers in your hand. Then you decide when she gets them.
I disagree with some of the others on some things. If you could just fuck her brains out without falling apart it would make her think she is back to normal and lower her apprehension at the change in your behavior.
But a I am advising you not to do that because you will not control yourself and you may even confess to everything you are planning.
YOU CANNOT DO THAT.!!!!!

Now gentle 2x4. Stop crying, you have done too much of that and if you don't stop what she is doing you will cry yourself to sleep and have that not in your stomach every day when she walks out the door.
Go back to the store tomorrow morning and get the correct VAR


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 1:10 AM, July 14th (Monday)

Badhurt, i get it. Believe me, the crying has gotten old. i'm trying to put myself back in the state of mind i was in this morning. Getting support from everyone here, combined with 180 made me feel stronger than i had felt since before i first suspected the A.
Our friends are older and very mature and worldly. They never speak to WW. I can see your point though. if i were to talk to them i wouldn't tell them my game-plan though. Actually, you made me realize that i may have f-ed up. I asked them for the lawyer referral. If they did ever bump into WW, they might ask about my "friend" who was looking for a divorce attorney. i totally trust them. i'll have to think about this. i feel like i should spill the beans and ask them to keep it in the vault. i know them well enough to know they wouldnt say anything.
Damn, this day/night just keeps getting better!


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Salt
Member
Member # 43726
Default  Posted: 1:11 AM, July 14th (Monday)

Don't tell anyone. Badhurt is right.

It's normal to have this kind of spike. If you just sit with it, it will fade. It will not last and you will feel stronger each time you stand your ground. Don't give in. You are not alone. It's going to be OK.

Get to the Dr. tomorrow and get a script for xanax asap.


BS, 54 Divorced 2012
I read and walked for miles at night along the beach, writing bad blank verse and searching endlessly for someone wonderful who would step out of the darkness and change my life. It never crossed my mind that that person would be me.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jun 2014
Salt
Member
Member # 43726
Default  Posted: 1:15 AM, July 14th (Monday)

Don't tell them DG. They won't ask such a question and even if they did it won't matter by then. You are giving yourself excuses to blow your cover. Not good.

Just sit down, breathe, focus on your breath and relax. It's going to be OK. You don't need to talk to them you can talk here. Important you keep your own counsel right now.

Sleep on the couch, give yourself space if you need to.


BS, 54 Divorced 2012
I read and walked for miles at night along the beach, writing bad blank verse and searching endlessly for someone wonderful who would step out of the darkness and change my life. It never crossed my mind that that person would be me.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jun 2014
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 1:28 AM, July 14th (Monday)

okay, i can't argue with two of you suggesting keeping it to myself.
Thanks again. Looking forward to sleep, if i can get there. I hope tomorrow I'm back to progress mode!

thank you!

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 1:29 AM, July 14th (Monday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Salt
Member
Member # 43726
Default  Posted: 1:39 AM, July 14th (Monday)

Good. You won't have to keep silent forever. Just for now.

In addition to an mba I spent 6 months studying hypnotherapy. You can bring yourself down to sleep.

Here's what you do to help yourself sleep:

Get comfortable. Take some slow deep breaths in…then out. 3-4 of them.

next, as you slowly inhale, then exhale, count yourself down from 10 down to one, with the number on each exhale. So breathe in slowly, then slowly exhale count the number 10 on the exhale. Breathe in slowly, then slowly exhale count the number 9 on the exhale. Keep doing this til you get to the number 1. Notice you are more relaxed than when you started.

Then begin at 10 -1 again. If intrusive thoughts enter, just breathe them out of you slowly, and continue counting. Depending on the circumstances it might take several iterations before you drift into sleep. Don't give up, it will work.


BS, 54 Divorced 2012
I read and walked for miles at night along the beach, writing bad blank verse and searching endlessly for someone wonderful who would step out of the darkness and change my life. It never crossed my mind that that person would be me.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jun 2014
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 5:52 AM, July 14th (Monday)

Thank you, salt. I believe that helped, last night.
Things don't seem quite as bad this morning.
Weekday mornings, especially Monday, are a trigger for me. I'm guessing that's because WW is getting ready to go to the place that has essentially been her dating service for at least six months; WORK.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 6:39 AM, July 14th (Monday)

Don't automatically expect your marriage to be over when you start laying down your boundaries to your WW. We talked about the need to regain her respect or she won't stop her cheating. You do this by being tough, strong and unyielding

You are in a fight for your marriage and your personal strength will be the determining factor as to whether you succeed or not. If your wife understands that you are really prepared to divorce, you've just about had it up to here with her contempt, and you have really reached the end of the road with her disrespect and blatant cheating, then she may very well back down. You would need to reach a method of accountability so you know what she is doing throughout the day; you might even insist she changes jobs.

Fundamentally you have to approach the showdown with ruthlessness; be prepared to risk all to win. When you threaten divorce, no tears, just a cold, implacable demand that she bends the knee or its all over and you will grind her cheating ass into the ground. Get fucking angry right now and convince yourself with a 100% certainty that you win this confrontation, by either dragging her to the divorce courts, or by her acquiescing in a submissive manner.

You can do this; the power lies with in you to take control of your marriage.


Posts: 1864 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 7:03 AM, July 14th (Monday)

OKnow, I'm working on that attitude. I had it, then turned back into a bowl of jello.
Today is a new day. Tomorrow, i have an appt with a lawyer.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 8:03 AM, July 14th (Monday)

It doesn't seem like you have hit the anger stage yet. Anger can many times give a person motivation and resolve to get something fixed once and for all.

You obviously know your wife is lying because she wont even tell you the guy's name and that is very disrespectful in the least.

You wonder who else.

You need her to as they say, own her shit, in other words take real responsibility for what she has done. Right now she wants nothing more than to sweep this all under the carpet. And you know that cannot happen without the truth and complete transparency.

She asks you last night if she had done something wrong...She really doesn't see the huge magnitude of the wrong she has done and is doing.

I doubt she is having any kind of EA at this time, she is too nice to you. But a PA is possible if anything. PA and being nice to you is normal and it is called compartmentalization.

Once you learn what has and is going on, you can then confront her with complete proof, maybe then she will see.

I would imagine she already KNOWS what the hell is wrong with you. Amazing how she is ignoring the elephant in the room.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 8:21 AM, July 14th (Monday)

I don't have proof that she is currently having the same or a different A.
As with the original, there are little details that cause me suspicion. And the fact that she refused to let me look at her electronics (iphone, work ipad, work laptop).
She flat out denies that she is having an A now.
I was doing fine all week with 180, until last night. Something snapped and I reverted to anxiety, fear, sadness, and all of those wonderful emotions I felt before DDay.
Today, I'm starting from scratch.
Tomorrow, I see a lawyer.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Tom67
Member
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 8:28 AM, July 14th (Monday)

Exactly deceived she should be totally transparent if she cared and respected you.
Sorry bro.

Posts: 316 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 8:32 AM, July 14th (Monday)

Deceived,

Read the below from OK NOW.
Don't automatically expect your marriage to be over when you start laying down your boundaries to your WW. We talked about the need to regain her respect or she won't stop her cheating. You do this by being tough, strong and unyielding
You are in a fight for your marriage and your personal strength will be the determining factor as to whether you succeed or not. If your wife understands that you are really prepared to divorce, you've just about had it up to here with her contempt, and you have really reached the end of the road with her disrespect and blatant cheating, then she may very well back down. You would need to reach a method of accountability so you know what she is doing throughout the day; you might even insist she changes jobs.

Fundamentally you have to approach the showdown with ruthlessness; be prepared to risk all to win. When you threaten divorce, no tears, just a cold, implacable demand that she bends the knee or its all over and you will grind her cheating ass into the ground. Get fucking angry right now and convince yourself with a 100% certainty that you win this confrontation, by either dragging her to the divorce courts, or by her acquiescing in a submissive manner.

You can do this; the power lies with in you to take control of your marriage.

once you see the attorney and GET SOME PAPERS in your possession, you need to get as angry as you have ever been in your life. You need to feel the hurt that you have absorbed every day since this started, all of the crying, all of the pain in your gut, and all of the betrayal.

When you drop your bomb on her head, DO NOT tell her how much you love her and desire to R with her. Tell her she can do whatever she wants to now because YOU have made the decision that you are not living like this anymore.

Personally, in your situation, with as cunning as your wife has been and as weak as you have been, I do not think without a confession from her that you will uncover anything. She is smart enough that she may have a fake e mail or any of the other electronic tricks at her disposal, and since this is occurring at work it makes it even harder.
If she was using a personal laptop for all her games it would be easier because you could if you wanted to just grab it while she was sleeping or out and take it to a Geek Squad or other tech expert to find out what was on it. i guess that would carry legal ramifications with her work computer.
This has come down however to REAL SIMPLE. When you give her divorce papers,if you do it right, she is going to realize the game is up, and she either divorces you or stays married to you.

You WILL get the shitstorm of anger and accusations of your terrible performance as husband and outrage that you do not trust her.
That is all par for the course. EXPECT IT!!!
And in her anger she just may do something stupid like admit everything or run right to her lover or one of them.

You only have 24 hours to attorney appointment. DO NOT let the attorney give you shrink advice. he or she is there to do your bidding and the advice should be legal, financial, etc. The attorney is not an infidelity expert in all likelihood.

Now try to relax, and then start tomorrow morning to think of all the shit you have put up with and what this woman has done to you since this started, and rejoice in the fact that it is going to soon be your turn to start throwing the knockout punches.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 8:50 AM, July 14th (Monday)

It is so easy to stop the 180 and revert back to normal life. For one thing that is what you want and another thing, your wife is acting normal in most ways. It is just now that you realize she actually is hiding things on her electronics. When before, you never thought about that.

Ignorance is bliss and you were happy before you knew, we all were. But that is what being deceived is all about, keeping us in the dark.

Just don't ever let your wife turn it on you. The stuff about you not trusting her to see her electronics is nonsense and an attempt to make you feel bad.

No normal person refuses to let their spouse see their electronics. Just stay strong and have a purpose. And your purpose is to end this hell one way or another.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 10:24 AM, July 14th (Monday)

When she asks you why you refuse to initiate sex, you have an opportunity to present her with irrefutable logic instead of emotion which she will counter with nonsensical emotion of her own..
You want to paint her into a corner with commonsense facts.

1] She has in the near past had unprotected sex with at least one OM. You have proved that with your semen tests.
2] She has repeatedly lied, to the extent you rationally cannot tell when she is being truthful or not.
3] Unprotected sex can result in her infecting you with an STD, which is highly undesirable.
4] Logically you then cannot resume an affectionate and sexual relationship with WW without a guarantee that she is faithful. To do otherwise is to risk acquiring a nasty disease.
5] Since she will not provide that guarantee you are at an impasse and the physical part of your marriage has to end.
6] Without affection and sex, divorce is the next and inevitable stage of your relationship.

You are presenting your WW with rational reasons why divorce will occur unless she can provide you with a guarantee that she is currently being faithful. Her spoken word cannot even remotely be relied on, so you are putting the onus on her to supply that proof, not you. That proof is what you need to begin reconciliation.


Posts: 1864 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 10:28 AM, July 14th (Monday)

And remember if you have the conversation OK NOW just presented to you, you have to have it WITHOUT tears and telling her how much you love her and want to R.
You are giving her the choice of bing a wife of she wants to

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 10:56 AM, July 14th (Monday)

If she isn't having another A, there is still a huge issue. The point is she hasn't fixed anything from the last one and you can't have a healthy intimate M with the rug sweeping she has done. In a healthy relationship the spouse would not insist on privacy like she does. Regardless of if she is having an A, she is being selfish and alienating you. She is not doing what you need to feel safe or putting your feelings first.

I hope you are feeling more peaceful this morning. Keep up the hard work and look into doing some hobby for yourself only.

When you drop your bomb on her head, DO NOT tell her how much you love her and desire to R with her. Tell her she can do whatever she wants to now because YOU have made the decision that you are not living like this anymore. [/bol
d]

exactly

Also expect to have her blame it all on you. Just remember it is not true.

BTW: The great thing about 180 is that it is okay to fall off the horse. It will get easier over time and have longer periods before it ends. Each attempt makes you stronger no matter what.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 11:03 AM, July 14th (Monday)

We've had sex since she admitted to the affair, but I really need to hammer home that the onus is on her to provide me with proof that she is not having an affair. The onus is not on me, learning to accept what she is telling me.

There have been no tears in front of her. I have an appt with a doctor this afternoon, to potentially get Xanax. Yesterday really set me back. I don't know what triggered it, but after the anxiety and private freak-out, I went back to fearing and dreading D, emotionally.
I need to quash that, if I'm going to maintain distance and build the anger necessary to follow through.

When I have this conversation in my head, I always tell her the onus is on her to provide me with proof, including seeing electronics at the drop of a hat, as well as checking in when i want her to, and making sure i know where she is.
I also tell her that she has an open door to R if she wants before D is final, but I can't live with secrets any more.

Without giving the chance of R, I fear she'll choose D by default, thinking that it's the only option i'm providing.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Shockleader
Member
Member # 36827
Default  Posted: 11:10 AM, July 14th (Monday)

Also, fully realize that right now you think you want to have her back and stay married, work things out, etc... even if she is the model of R, there is a very good chance you might say to yourself with some time, perspective, and clear headedness, that she can rot in cheaters hell, halleluiah to my new single life free from cheater scum.

I know I sure did. My cheater gaslit me so insanely hard, TT, lied constantly, you name it. When I did have her served D papers it WAS SCORCHED EARTH WAR by me with a spine transformed from wet noodle, to fucking Titanium, and it only supercharged her lying, anger, insane level of selfishness and cowardice. That was fine, cause the new take no shit me said bring it on you lying cowardly bitch. Anger will be your best friend, and believe me after the D papers are served, the show has just begun. Yep, I HATE my ex cheater, but it is not a consuming hate. I was in a very similar circumstance as yours, was very weak at times, wished for death, and it nearly killed me to see how my DD suffered. I cant say exactly when my wave of steel hard resolve came over me, but when it did I could have leveled mountains!

Time to get busy ridding her from your life, strap on your "two shits not given" attitude by what she says/tantrums/screaming, paint on an angry war face, and get on the motherfucking war path. You wont believe the wind that will fill your sails once you start taking no shit from a person hell bent on destroying you who has no honor. Good luck friend, we have all been where you are and made it just like you will.

P.S. As I said, I had nearly an identical situation (scary how similar), so if you might like to gain some insight, someone to listen, etc, please PM me and I'll call you... These cowardly bullies never win, and I'd be more than happy to help give you some ammo to defeat them.


D-Day spring 2012
Me BS 47
Xcheater 44
One DD 19
Married 23 years
Divorced 12/23/13 Fu*king A!

The cruel, the unkind, those without honor, feast on the tender heart...


Posts: 653 | Registered: Sep 2012
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 11:49 AM, July 14th (Monday)

I need to go through this entire topic again.
Keep the advice coming. I was doing great until I cracked yesterday. I'm determined to get the fire back.
Have any of you gone backwards while making progress with 180?
Have you used Xanax to curb anxiety, or were you able to power through without taking a few steps back?
Most of you sound way stronger when you went through this...

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 11:50 AM, July 14th (Monday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 12:18 PM, July 14th (Monday)

Without giving the chance of R, I fear she'll choose D by default, thinking that it's the only option i'm providing.
Then make sure she knows that is not her only option.

And let her know that the fact she had sex with some other guy and refuses to give you his name is just unacceptable.

Protecting the OM's identity from you is just plain disrespectful to say the least.

And the fact that she has this need to keep all of her passwords and electronics secret is NOT the basis of a close marriage.

She will turn that around on you, but tell her to forget it. If she feels the need that she has to hide half of her life from you, than that is not a real marriage.

You don't hide your electronics or passwords from her, so why does she have this need to hide everything from you. Well, you have already seen the answer to that question.

All of this sounds so nice and logical, it is amazing why so many WS's cannot get this through their minds.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 12:23 PM, July 14th (Monday)

The thing about Xanax and other similar benzodiazepines is that they can pose a very real threat to sobriety. Because of this, it's really important to work with a doctor who's VERY experienced with both addiction and the meds (and other things) used to treat anxiety and depression. Your PCP is not the person to do this---you need someone who can really evaluate and diagnose, and then help you home in on the BEST and SAFEST treatment for you.

There are medications--for example, some of the antidepressants--that address anxiety issues without affecting sensorium. Benzodiazepines (such as alprazolam/Xanax, clonazepam/Klonopin, lorazepam/Ativan, diazepam/Valium) are sedative/hypnotic in addition to being anxiolytic and relaxant, so they are psychoactive in a way that differs from ADs (some of which can be quite effective in addressing anxiety, as well).

Antidepressants typically affect the release/uptake of the neurotransmitters that facilitate the movement of electrical impulses from neuron (brain cell) to neuron. They get neurotransmitter levels "back where they belong." (I say "typically" because there are a few ADs for which mechanism of action is not fully understood.) While they improve mood (over a period of weeks), they do not impair.

The same cannot be said for benzodiazepines, which work very differently. Their mode of action and effects can represent a HUGELY slippery slope for the recovering alcohol/addict because they have the same sort of immediate mood-altering effect that alcohol possesses. Abuse potential is enormous--they feel good (right away), and tolerance/dependence can develop fairly rapidly.

I'm not suggesting that anxiety should be untreated. It is, indeed, a medical problem that requires treatment just as any other. However, you have to be smart and careful, and work with someone who's equipped to really monitor treatment---and who can explore, with you, the various ways to address anxiety (not all of which involve medication).

Treatment may very well involve something like Xanax--but it really should only be prescribed by someone who's really evaluated YOUR specific situation.

I'd strongly recommend that you seek out a psychiatrist who is VERY familiar with addiction issues and who can guide you to the best option for your situation. You don't want your hard-won sobriety to be threatened by incautious prescription and monitoring. While most PCPs are more than qualified to prescribe short-term antianxiety meds to most patients, I think that whenever there is any complicating factor (in your case, hx of alcoholism), a psychiatrist is your best bet. S/he will do a more thorough assessment and diagnosis, is best equipped to select the meds with the best risk-benefit profile, and can best assess the effectiveness of treatment with you.


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 53, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 9142 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
redsox13
Member
Member # 43391
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, July 14th (Monday)

Honestly, I think anyone who has been through the 180 was pretty much a complete wreck in the first few weeks.

To detach from the person we love is alien to every intuition we posses. Which is why it is so hard.

You are doing great.


BS - 45
WW - 43
In R for 5 years, still hurting but finally letting go

Posts: 328 | Registered: May 2014 | From: nh
Salt
Member
Member # 43726
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, July 14th (Monday)

DG,
Put the VAR in her car tonight. Listen to it before you confront her with Divorce papers. Then listen to it again afterward. It will be very revealing and likely give you all the courage you need.


BS, 54 Divorced 2012
I read and walked for miles at night along the beach, writing bad blank verse and searching endlessly for someone wonderful who would step out of the darkness and change my life. It never crossed my mind that that person would be me.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jun 2014
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 12:52 PM, July 14th (Monday)

Your problem is fear. Fear of rejection, fear of being alone, fear of your daughters well-being, fear of financial hardship etc. But your wife has her fears to which are very similar to your own. Now if she had an OM to turn to for love and affection she would be much stronger, but it doesn't sound as if she does; she's really as emotionally isolated as you are.

In that case its a battle for control; she is determined to maintain her power base and you are not willing to put up with this oppression any longer. Who will back down first?
Make sure it isn't you or your fearful nightmares will come true.

You must take this confrontation to the point of divorce. If your wife wins she gets to humiliate you and strip you of all self-esteem; as well as the self-granted right to have more affairs.
If you win you get a wife who is ready to start the path of true remorse and rebuild this marriage. You are standing on the edge of a cliff, you just can't back away anymore; the only way is forward whatever retaliatory action your WW engages in. If she won't provide the assurance you need that no more cheating will occur then onwards to divorce. What other choice do you have?


Posts: 1864 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, July 14th (Monday)

Without giving the chance of R, I fear she'll choose D by default, thinking that it's the only option I'm providing.
^^^ What? You already have given her the chance to R and it is still on the table. To use Bigger's phraseology, you are moving OUT of infidelity. You have given her (and will again) the choice to join you or not as you do that.

I believe she is still in the EA and talking to OM. Many people out there think that cutting of the PA means they have ended the A. We know that it is not true...

Haven't gone back through the whole thread, but have you armed yourself with your version of Joseph's Letter? Assuming she does offer transparency, then getting the full truth as a next step will still be a big hurdle. My wife's own IC that she started with just before DDay and saw just after told her in no uncertain terms to keep all affair details a secret. There is a lot of reinforcement for this approach out there unfortunately.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 901 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
Salt
Member
Member # 43726
Default  Posted: 1:27 PM, July 14th (Monday)

Have any of you gone backwards while making progress with 180?
Have you used Xanax to curb anxiety, or were you able to power through without taking a few steps back?
Most of you sound way stronger when you went through this...

We've all spent time being weak, and being strong. We've all gone two steps forward, one step back. Sometimes one step back, then realizing our error, two steps forward. This is normal.

I went on AD's and used xanax occasionally. I was on very low dose AD's (half of the starting dose) but after a while I felt they weren't making me feel better, but worse. I went off of them and I have never been so sick in my life. I tapered off as much as possible, but spent nearly 8 weeks in bed. My Dr. didn't tell me about that possibility when he gave them to me to help with the extreme anxiety I was experiencing. I understand there is a small percentage of the population who have this experience getting off of them. Not everyone has this experience.


BS, 54 Divorced 2012
I read and walked for miles at night along the beach, writing bad blank verse and searching endlessly for someone wonderful who would step out of the darkness and change my life. It never crossed my mind that that person would be me.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jun 2014
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, July 14th (Monday)

Playing catch up on your thread here. You have been doing well. No one is perfect with the 180 and everyone has moments of weakness. You are human and do love your wife so of course this is one of the most difficult things you have ever done.

Without giving the chance of R, I fear she'll choose D by default, thinking that it's the only option i'm providing.

So let her know that this is not the only option. That this is just one option to get out of infidelity. You don't want to be in infidelity anymore. Tell her she can join you in getting out of infidelity but until she meets your needs of getting out of infidelity, you are left with no other choice. Let her know that the ball is in her court and it's up to her to join you. Let her know that this is a great opportunity at a better life together if she wants to get out of infidelity. Otherwise, D is the last option for you to get out of infidelity for a chance at a better life.

yop


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2463 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 3:19 PM, July 14th (Monday)

Without giving the chance of R, I fear she'll choose D by default, thinking that it's the only option i'm providing.

I would think that if she isn't having an A and loved you and wanted the M, then she wouldn't see that as the only option. You already gave her the gift of R. Now, you are stating your terms and telling her that it is about time for her to act like a loving respectful spouse.

She will just see this as the time to start owning her shit. But, don't expect her to start showing true remorse yet. Just regret that everything has blown up in her face and she has lost control over having you docile to the fear of losing her.

A big question is how you are going to make sure she is transparent? If she is having an A, then how will you make sure that she is staying faithful with using the electronic stuff versus the face to face time she has at work. Would she be willing to change her job? Can you out her at work without it totally ruining her rep?

We all have strong and weak moments. That is why it is called a roller coaster. *and most of us posting have been here for awhile*

Best of luck tonite and tomorrow. Stay strong. Just remember that you are tired of being treated like a nanny.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
saveus
Member
Member # 43251
Default  Posted: 4:26 PM, July 14th (Monday)

Hi deceivedguy.

I just finished reading your thread from start to finish. I see a lot we have in common (and, as others will point out, some things we don't). Just to say I wish you the very best of luck & will be checking in to see how things go for you.


Me: BS/39
Her: WS/37
Together: 15 years
Married: 7 years
1 amazing little boy, 5, the love of our lives
D-Day 1: 14/4/2014 (EA/one night PA)
D-Day 2: 30/4/2014 (sexting/PA longer & ongoing)
D-Day 3: 4/5/2014 (earlier PA, another OM)

Posts: 260 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: UK
allatsea
Member
Member # 38923
Default  Posted: 6:29 AM, July 15th (Tuesday)

DG,

I see a lot of people on here encouraging you to file for divorce as this may be the stick that gets WW to reconsider her actions and behaviours.

I don't see it, I'm afraid.

Please don't file if your sole reasoning is to win her back. You should file because you can no longer tolerate sharing her vagina with another penis. She is rug sweeping and will not appreciate you filing for divorce. This will likely piss her off.

You should file - But do it to save yourself. If the marriage can be saved as a side benefit, then great. But don't expect your WW to suddenly wakeup. I'm speaking from my direct experience.

I realised that I wasn't prepared to share my wife with another man.

..and when you get the urge to sleep with your wife try remembering that she's not doing it because she wants and loves you. Remind yourself that you are putting your dick where she regularly puts another dick. And she's probably thinking of him too.

I know I sound coarse and harsh. But what she is doing to you is coarse and harsh. Don't sugarcoat it.


Best of luck

[This message edited by allatsea at 6:32 AM, July 15th (Tuesday)]


You can't fix crazy. All you can do is document it

Posts: 742 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: UK
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 8:50 AM, July 15th (Tuesday)

Excellent post allatsea. I remember your awful ordeal at the hands of your un-remorseful, actually vicious, wife.
If anyone has the experience to give this advice it would be you.

Posts: 1864 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 4:33 PM, July 15th (Tuesday)

180 - starting over and a confession (from me)

Sunday night - After a week of building strength with 180, a trigger from a TV show caused me to fall into a downward spiral that invoked more pain and hopelessness than I've felt since before DDay,

MONDAY Morning - WW offered to fool around, and I accepted. It was a weekday morning, I was in a totally mentally f-ed place. Against all the advice here, against the 180 I've been working so hard at, against what I knew was the correct answer to that offer, I accepted.
For the first time in 6 months, she actually participated. It wasn't like old times, but she seemed into it. I know this was most likely a result of my keeping my distance. I didn't feel remorse from it, more confused and depressed.
Because of one of my triggers, WW asked for my approval for the outfit she picked out for the day. That was new.

The thing is, I'm not ready. Money, the house, the kids...I didn't want to end up living in a studio apartment, working at 7-11 graveyard shift, visiting my girls every other weekend...
I don' know if that is really how things would shake out, but I don't know anything.

MONDAY Afternoon - Went to a doctor who prescribed XANAX and an AD generic version of Celexa).

I took a Xanax and it calmed down my rising anxiety.

MONDAY Night -
TODAY - I went to an attorney. He would only give me a half hour for free consultation.
DEPRESSING.
My chances of custody are 50/50, my chances of child support are dependent on custody of course. I have a small chance of alimony. I've been a stay-at-home dad for 8 years because my wife asked to return to the workplace.
This lawyer didn't paint a very optimistic picture.

Today I'm lost, looking to start another 180. Maybe, it'll help me find direction again.

I just wanted to be honest with you all, as you've spent so much time helping me. I feel like the biggest loser on earth right now. I don't know what to do.
My wife is acting loving, without a lot of intimacy. She seems more willing to talk about the A.
But she won't show me her electronics which means she has secrets, of course.

I'm lost.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:13 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 4:43 PM, July 15th (Tuesday)

Seek the opinion of another lawyer. Don't waste the lawyers time with the sad tale of unrepentant infidelity. The lawyer has heard that to many times already.

Focus on work,/family history, earnings, the fact that you are a dinosaur in your field right now, support for you duringretraining/updating and child support. And custody.

Guess what? You won't get supported indefinitely without a plan to update your IT skills. Have you looked? Night school,at local,CC might crimp her style,,too.


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 4:45 PM, July 15th (Tuesday)

...and I didn't post the above, for pity or to feel sorry for myself. I felt like I was gaining control of myself, then it all imploded in a matter of minutes.
I don't know if WW is still cheating, but my gut (or experience and jealousy) tell me she most likely is...

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 4:53 PM, July 15th (Tuesday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 4:47 PM, July 15th (Tuesday)

Schadenfreude - in regards to attorney consultation, I'm all business. No emotion.
Don't have another attorney lined up yet. hoping for referrals


And, infidelity is NEVER used in Illinois unless children were hurt as a direct result. Basically not a factor.

and i can't afford this yet. will have to get help from friends and family
$240/hr, 2800.00 retainer

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 4:52 PM, July 15th (Tuesday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 4:52 PM, July 15th (Tuesday)

Is it WH or WW?

Anyway, jump back on the 180 wagon. We all have fall off and get back on. It's getting back on that's important.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 653 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 4:56 PM, July 15th (Tuesday)

My wife is acting loving, without a lot of intimacy. She seems more willing to talk about the A.
But she won't show me her electronics which means she has secrets, of course.
Amazing how they can confuse us to death. Your gut feelings could be right or just so screwed up from being lied to, you can't be sure.

Look for more solid evidence to back up your gut feelings...if there is more. One day of the VAR is not enough of course.

It just makes no damn sense, she is willing to talk about the affair, but not give up her passwords.

You say she is willing to talk about the affair, how can she talk about the affair, if she wont even tell you who it was with?

Has she even told you who the OM was?

Get her some books to read like Not Just Friends. As long as there are secrets, there can be no marriage, at least not a comfortable one. Have you thought about MC...I wonder if a good MC would advise your wife to give up her passwords. So many times the WS does not want to hear their BS tell them things, but when they hear it from someone else, then it is different.

Snoop as much as you can, find out.

You need to get power back, and that would probably mean getting back into the work force, in your field. Start looking around, put out feelers, call your old company and coworkers.

And talk to more attorneys.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 4:57 PM, July 15th (Tuesday)

JDuff,
WW
THANK YOU!!!

I had the wrong abbreviation stuck in my head from reading posts for the las half hour. thanks, again


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 5:02 PM, July 15th (Tuesday)

Craig, we just fired our MC. She was enabling my WW and rug sweeping. When I caught my wife in a lie that could have been significant, the MC said we cant move forward if I keep bringing up the past. Her attitude was, WW already admitted to the A and said there is not another one... we need to move on...
(and she would ask WW if she felt ambushed when i brought up things that might be clues to potential new or continuing A)

WW did give me the name of the OM, my gut or jealousy tells me their may be others.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 5:04 PM, July 15th (Tuesday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 5:20 PM, July 15th (Tuesday)

WW did give me the name of the OM, my gut or jealousy tells me their may be others.
Okay, I thought your wife just gave you the name of some guy at work, some random name and you found out it was not that guy.

Be careful with that VAR, if she finds it the crap hits the fan.

That MC did a ton of harm and set back R by about 100 years, and people like that have no business at all in the MC business. Rug sweeping causes so many problems, especially future affairs.

Have you asked your wife to take a polygraph test. She refused to give you access to her electronics, how about a nice simple lie detector test.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 7:17 PM, July 15th (Tuesday)

I thought you knew who OM was. Maintainance guy at work not near her office you said. So this is another one she have you name of???
The first thing any MC should be telling your wife is is that there are no secrets after infidelity. Any other attitude is not acceptable and you establish that up front.
You have got to take the Xanax and calm down. The VAR needs to stay in car and you are going to give it away by panicking and getting weepy the minute you hear something you don't like .
If you read a thread on JFO called The Unthinkable and he had to endure a ton of devastating conversations but only knows what he knows now because he did not divulge it was there.
Yes she is going to get pissed if she finds it but aren't you pissed at what she is doing to your life right now.

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
worried_lady
Member
Member # 27605
Default  Posted: 7:53 PM, July 15th (Tuesday)

I know you can't work right now until you heal but you can start making applications and trying to get something lined up. Getting a job can take a while and even if somebody wanted to hire you tomorrow you have the option to say you can't start until a certain day.

Start the process now and stop sleeping with her. Sleeping with her does more than just getting your rocks off. It pulls you back in and messes with your mind. Stop it. You can go more than a week without sex.

[This message edited by worried_lady at 7:54 PM, July 15th (Tuesday)]


Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over it became a butterfly.

Posts: 478 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: Texas
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 9:00 PM, July 15th (Tuesday)

BadHurt,
Yes, OM was maintenance guy in her office building. I still feel there is someone, but I don't necessarily think it is him.
I'm now getting my intuition, jealousy, and contextual clues, muddied with clues I thought I had, but became unsure about.

I definitely have to start 180 from scratch.
I thought I had this!
Worried_Lady, you're right. I had turned down offers during the last week. Actually, not so much turned down, as acted disinterested and otherwise preoccupied.
Yesterday morning I was weak and lost. The Xanax is making me tired. I'm not planning on living on this stuff, but if it helps me avoid being tempted by sex for a few days, I think it'll help me get some emotional strength back.

YES... she is probably still cheating again, but I need proof to throw it all away. I felt really good last week when i was focused on myself and my girls.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:13 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 9:18 PM, July 15th (Tuesday)

Deceived

Just remember. Every time you go out to check the VAR you risk her catching you. And you risk leaving car unlocked or something like you posted. You have to be calm when you replace it, and no matter what you hear , you cannot go running I. To confront her or you risk blowing your cover as long as she does not know it is there.
My guess is from your last posts is that she is having sex with one of the lunch partners that she spends time with out of office alone with.
She is toying with you asking you to now approve her work outfits. The slut outfits were where her thoughts are. Now she thinks she is pulling wool over your eyes by asking you for approval. She thinks that makes you more "stupid" when you appear to buy into it.
Not sure if you need to check VAR every day unless it can't store much conversation.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 10:51 PM, July 15th (Tuesday)

I feel the same, I think she is just pulling the wool over your eyes and getting her ducks in a row to continue her A's underground.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 11:00 PM, July 15th (Tuesday)

P.S....don't feel bad or guilty for falling off the wagon. The last thing you need to do now is feel bad about that with SI...we don't care. We know what it is like and have all been there. Just get back on and try again.

Damn I would need to take anxiety meds just to deal with the stress from the VAR. That is a really bold move. I know that would I sneaked peeks at my fWH text messages while he was in the shower when I started to suspect an A, I nearly threw up from the anxiety and suspense of it all.

But, I am confused as to what you want. So, you just want to make sure if she is or isn't having an A? What about the simple fact that she refuses to share the electronics after being caught in one A? That in itself is not transparency and grounds for calling it off for most BS. Do you really need her to be in another A or do you need her to already be transparent now? I am not saying you need to divorce. You do need to take control and decide what it is you really need and will no longer tolerate.

[This message edited by hopefulmother at 11:01 PM, July 15th (Tuesday)]


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 11:44 PM, July 15th (Tuesday)

hopefulmother,
In my heart, I want R with WW.
The fact that she won't show me her electronics tells me she is hiding something... affair(s), flirts, sexting, badmouthing me...
I confronted her, she refused to show them to me.
There's nothing I can do about it except threaten divorce. After my first consultation with an attorney, that is a scary prospect at the moment. I need to find a job. Im 49 years old tomorrow, stay at home dad, out of IT for 8 years, except for a little part-time database gig. I'm not as marketable as I was, but I'm going to keep looking.

If I confront WW about electronics again, it will be a blow out fight and she will act like an a-hole to me, and i still won't get to see them. If I find SOMETHING to base my current fears of another or continued underground A, i will feel better about threatening with divorce.

Ultimately, I want to believe there is not an A and I'm just suffering fallout from acknowledged A, as well as fallout jealousy. I know that she most likely is, or will, based on experience from SI members.

I want R or proof of another A and the strength to end this pain.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 1:03 AM, July 16th (Wednesday)

I should add, if my gut is right and WW is hiding another A, she is doing it well. She is acting like her normal self.
If I leave everything alone and just act normal myself, it will be ozzie and harriet, unless i find out she is having another A.
I'm confused right now.
It's exhausting.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
jb3199
Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 5:49 AM, July 16th (Wednesday)

The thing is, I'm not ready. Money, the house, the kids...I didn't want to end up living in a studio apartment, working at 7-11 graveyard shift, visiting my girls every other weekend...

Deceived,

We understand this. The fear can be paralyzing. The best way to overcome these fears are to (1) stop beating yourself up about any lapses, and (2) start the task of disengaging again.

You know that she is not of reconcilable material right now. She is not transparent, and is not interested in easing your pain. as long as you act like everything is OK, then her behavior is fine---because that is EXACTLY what she wants. But you know better than this.

I agree with Craig2001. Get Not Just Friends, and How to Help Your Spouse Heal From an Affair. It is a shot in the dark, but maybe something will resonate. Don't bank on it, but being that you are not ready to dissolve your marriage yet, you can still get these books WHILE you continue to detach.

You have more strength than you currently believe. Don't be afraid to stand up for what is not only right, but what should be expected in a solid, loving marriage.


BH-47
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 22yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2143 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 6:15 AM, July 16th (Wednesday)

Divorce is not a tool you use to threaten the WS. If you file you need to be prepared to get divorced to leave infidelity behind you as life in infidelity with an unremorseful WW is worse than life without her.

Otherwise she'll rightly see a threat of divorce as another empty threat safely ignored.

Where is a hint of remorse? I don't recall you posting anything about it. Without that she's likely to have another A whenever some OM starts pushing her buttons.

Use this truce to get retrained or updated. You won't have a better chance. Sure it will be hard work for you but it will be harder when and if you separate. Spend her money on tuition. And your nights at school are nights she must spend at home

[This message edited by Schadenfreude at 6:22 AM, July 16th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 6:18 AM, July 16th (Wednesday)

Deceived

If you can manage to not blow your cover with the VAR, eventually if she is having an affair with someone she works with you will hear something. It is doubtful their only communication. Is work computer.
Your gut is right. A woman working in the corporate world does NOT have an affair at work, go from conservative business suits to miniskirts for no reason, and then absolutely refuse a basic tenet of rebuilding trust. Any responsible MC dealing with infidelity should be telling your wife this.
You are a lot more technically skilled than a lot of woman who have no careers or give up one for child rearing and the get divorced and survive.
I think a lot of this has to do with your concern about being alone physically and that is why you are willing to tolerate her behavior for regular sex.
As far as her acting normal. That is why infidelity is so devastating . Because the cheater acts normal. Your wife has the perfect set up for doing this and is taking advantage of it.
You have to decide what you want to do. You can just accept what she is doing, and tell her it a ok for her to continue what she is doing to you or you can bear the pain and take action.
My guess is if you kissed her and told her you were ok with what she is doing and she can have other sex partners is that should would hug you, thank you, and promise to keep you happy. If you wanted to you could probably trick her into a confession that way.
You just need to understand that she has out you in a position where there are no painless choices.
She is going to go absolutely ballistic if she discovers the VAR so if you are afraid of that you better remove it.
The fact is what another poster said to you . She is refusing to do what is necessary to help you regain the trust. So you are in for a long time of wondering is another man is in her before you.
Do what you can live with, but you posted here because the current situation is driving you crazy. It will not end on its own.
I disagree with giving her books to read if you want to catch her. She is much more likely to make a mistake and slip up if she thinks you are sleeping at the wheel.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Shockleader
Member
Member # 36827
Default  Posted: 6:52 AM, July 16th (Wednesday)

The thing is, I'm not ready. Money, the house, the kids...I didn't want to end up living in a studio apartment, working at 7-11 graveyard shift, visiting my girls every other weekend...

I'll be 48 in a few months, and let me tell you how it was for me. I was an unemployed SAHD to help my ex prosper, was at one time the training director for a pretty big company, ex military officer... Guess what... After I hit the go button for D from my POS cheater, I did not care if I lived in a refrigerator box. I fucking mean it! I was done with the disrespect, done with living with a person hell bent on destroying me, done with seeing a person who willfully destroyed two families have zero empathy or concern for the pain she caused, done with having her gaslight me in front of my DD, harming our great relationship, done with taking anymore shit/shit sandwiches from a morally bankrupt POS. I was FUCKING DONE, and knew any hardship from then on would have to be faced, because I had no option if I wished to be the true person of honor I was. I was very afraid, but my resolve, conviction in the face of fear pushed me along, and somehow I carried on.

Everything I owned fit in less than a 14 foot U-haul loaded by me in a few hours, and I was on my way to my moms. So going from living in 4000 sf homes, to my old boyhood BR, still unemployed, and my DD staying with her mom SUCKED... But at least I was away from the drama and could fight hard to free myself from POS and her toxic aura. A little while in I got a job (PT @ $7.50/hr refueling and cleaning aircraft), got my own apartment, sighed up on OkCupid to start dating, and my situation and mood was improving, even if I did not see it. All of my fears that I would never have my own place, never get a job, and a huge one of never finding a decent women to share time with were all FALSE. Sure, my situation was and continues to not be ideal, but I am very grateful to be away from a terrible person, and free of the daily gut wrenching situation.

My D was final, and what a great feeling to not be under the yoke of being with an unrepentant cheater! DD is now at college in her second year, Ive been dating a fantastic caring lady for over a year, and every day I try my best to be a better person, especially to myself. I say myself because like you, my codependency was far more concerned with the happiness of others, than being equally concerned with ourselves. I wrote this long post to show you that another fella in a very similar pattern/situation can do it, and so can you. As others have said, and I think I told you when we talked, fear is what really kills our actions and allows us to bargain with ourselves shit we would never put up with normally.

Clarity for you will come, so will anger and loss of action by virtue of fear... You know by her actions she is not being straight with you, you know she is a bold liar, she loves TT, you know she has the ability to try and at least attempt to 'fix' what she has caused, yet all she can do is muster anger in the face of your suffering??? Let the fear go; you are in a situation that staying in although in some way 'comfortable', will kill your self respect and dignity... Scorched earth my friend, and demand she be a part in your healing/potential R, or that she not be in your life. Don't give her one friggin inch or weasel room. Good luck, we all care about you here on SI.


D-Day spring 2012
Me BS 47
Xcheater 44
One DD 19
Married 23 years
Divorced 12/23/13 Fu*king A!

The cruel, the unkind, those without honor, feast on the tender heart...


Posts: 653 | Registered: Sep 2012
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 8:10 AM, July 16th (Wednesday)

Im 49 years old tomorrow, stay at home dad, out of IT for 8 years, except for a little part-time database gig.

All you need is a foot in the door, anywhere, any position, and you can get the training free at the company that hires you. Every place I worked in IT had training and education programs to get their IT staff up to speed on the latest and greatest. Once you're back in the field you will quickly have that opportunity to expand your skill set, so don't worry about being behind the knowledge. Get in at support call level 1 if you have to.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 653 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 9:03 AM, July 16th (Wednesday)

Happy Birthday. And no doubt this makes everything the more terrible. I remember my birthdays during and after the affair. Ugh.

Anything on the VAR?

And yes, get her those books mentioned and make her read them. It is past time she own her own shit, time for her to realize just what is going on with you and exactly what she has done.

Is your wife normally a stubborn person?

Otherwise, I can see no reason she would hide the electronics. Usually, after an affair and with nothing left to hide, the former WS is more than happy to show their emails, texts or anything in order to prove to their BS there is nothing going on.

Have you confronted this maintenance guy at all, if for nothing else to see what he says and if it was even him.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
FrmrBH80124
Member
Member # 42967
Default  Posted: 11:03 AM, July 16th (Wednesday)

DG,

Happy Birthday! I'm really sorry that you are dealing with this crap. You've been given some great advice by others so I don't have anything to add.

Best of luck!


ME - BH 45
Her - XWS 30
D - April 2010 - never looked back and good riddance.
Happily remarried!

Though much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days
moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are


Posts: 189 | Registered: Apr 2014
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, July 16th (Wednesday)

strength to end this pain.

It will happen. It just takes time. Either sooner from 180 or during the 6month mark (not sure when that is for multiple A BS) and the anger phase hits.

When you get angry, you will not care about pissing her off with any requests. You will simply get to the point where walking on eggshells is ridiculous. You will realize that you don't even know if the WS you are R with is even worth an ounce of your time.

Hope it is soon for you too and Happy Birthday.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 12:38 PM, July 16th (Wednesday)

Thanks everyone!
Weird coincidence regarding the books; last night i realized i never cancelled my audible.com trial subscription so i logged on to cancel it.
The website gave me a recommendation for "how to help your spouse heal from your affair". My WW doesn't rally understand what I've been going through. Even if she doesn't give a crap (as evidenced by all the times she sat there cold as ice while i explained my pain, pre-DDay).
I know there is a human, a shred of the real her in there. I am going to give her that book and "not just friends..." by Shirley glass.
i want her to know that I'm working on R, without her knowing that underground, I'm building my strength, researching lawyers, and getting daily doses of reality from you all here at SI.
There are two main people she talks to on the way to/from work. She actually said a couple of nice things about me. Disturbing though, she explains to one person how she gave up everything for the kids and she never wanted to have kids because of that.
If she agreed to give me full custody today, I would be in heaven!

Thanks for birthday wishes. 49 sounds old to me, but ifeel like i'm only a few years out of high school.

I'm focusing on my girls and schoolwork today.
I need a day of being alone to try wrap my head around this mess.

I was considering telling my WW, if she won't show me electronics, i need her to take a polygraph. That happened when she first admitted to A. She first gave me false name. I researched the guy and said i need her to take polygraph. She agreed at first, then before i made the appt, she gave me OM's real name, and the fact that he worked in her giant office building, but not near her office.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 2:23 PM, July 16th (Wednesday)

Disturbing though, she explains to one person how she gave up everything for the kids and she never wanted to have kids because of that.
If she agreed to give me full custody today, I would be in heaven!

Note that in your journal for later. IF you do get to a point where D is inevitable, point out to her that "Your career seems to be very important for you right now. You might consider letting me have full custody of the children so that you can really spread your wings and pursue your dreams. Of course, you will still be able to visit the girls while you are climbing up the corporate ladder. I would never keep you from visiting them."

I mean hey, if she is that easily swayed into having sex with another man, surely you can sway her to give up more custody.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 653 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 3:54 PM, July 16th (Wednesday)

Keep listening to the VAR and document what you hear and when.

Were you able to confirm that it actually was this OM. And does a maintenance man even make sense. How would he have met him if they worked in different buildings.

You say she is willing to talk about the affair, does that mean she is answering every question you ask her? Do the answers make sense.

Don't ask her about another polygraph yet, save it and use it later. When you have more information. It sounds like the next time she will tell you more in one of those parking lot confessions.

About being 49 and HS was yesterday. Times goes by so fast it is scary.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
nomistakeaboutit
Member
Member # 36857
Default  Posted: 4:06 PM, July 16th (Wednesday)

Disturbing though, she explains to one person how she gave up everything for the kids and she never wanted to have kids because of that. If she agreed to give me full custody today, I would be in heaven!

Very interesting.

Were you aware that she felt this way?

My XWW felt/feels similarly, although she's never fully acknowledged it to me or to herself. This information is gold.

If it comes to D, here is a Possible scenario for you:

--She provides you with child support and alimony.
--You share legal custody, but you have a primary physical custody. (that's what I have, btw. She sees the kids three weekends a month. The rest of the time they are with me.)
--You work part time to make the extra money you will need.
--you and the kids stay in your current home, which will minimize the impact on the kids

This is all to say that 50 - 50 parenting my be the norm, but it does not always have to be that way. The way to work around it is to get her on board with the plan. If she and you agree to the terms, the judge will likely approve it. Why wouldn't he / she, you know, particularly since you have been the primary caregiver.


Me: BH 58.........Her: WW 45
DD: 8..........DS: 5
Married for six years.
DDay: 12-25-11 Divorced: 7-15-12
...................................
"It's like a nightmare within a nightmare, which in and of itself is a nightmare!"

Posts: 968 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: U.S.A.
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 4:59 PM, July 16th (Wednesday)

WW never mentioned not wanting to have kids until this week while being stressed out about our 12 yr old. She also mentioned "giving up everything" to be the provider, in a recent civil conversation we had.
She didn't give up anything...I DID!!! For her!

This is BULL$..T, folks. Eight years ago, I was the sole financial provider. One of my girls has JRA, so we agreed on one working and one at-home parent until college.
I was in IT (database admin/Dev, at the time). Prior, I did everything from helpdesk, to systems engineer..

When planning on moving back to the Midwest, my WW begged to go back to work. I explained that IT years are like dog years. The longer I'm out, the harder it'll be, to reach my current (at the time) professional status.
I had a potential gig lined up at a hospital, here however WW was really sick of spending all day with toddlers and continued to plead.
I finally gave in and gave up my career so she could go back to work.

She adamantly asked to go back to work. I gave up my career.
Until this mess it was worth it because i see my girls all day an do all of their school stuff and cook for them, and play, draw,read, go places, and etc etc etc.... nothing like it! I can't imagine NOT being their primary caregiver now!


[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:09 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 11:23 PM, July 16th (Wednesday)


I don't have a lawyer (todays candidate sounded like a clock watcher), im practically unemployed so WW is more equipped to take kids because she earns the big bucks and can loosen her schedule.

Holy crap.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:10 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Tom67
Member
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 11:29 PM, July 16th (Wednesday)

Okay slow down what was said.
I will translate.
Just give what you want to disclose sorry man.

Posts: 316 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 11:36 PM, July 16th (Wednesday)

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:11 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Tom67
Member
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 11:39 PM, July 16th (Wednesday)

Oh geez polygraph time or at least the threat of one.
I'll PM you

Posts: 316 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
Salt
Member
Member # 43726
Default  Posted: 12:41 AM, July 17th (Thursday)

Patience DG,
It may be nothing. But with patience the truth will out. So truly you have been given good advice. Start looking into some fresh training for you. Get that going now. And keep the VAR in the car. Leave it in for a few days then pull it out so you don't risk it every night.

Remember to breathe. Patience. The truth will come.


BS, 54 Divorced 2012
I read and walked for miles at night along the beach, writing bad blank verse and searching endlessly for someone wonderful who would step out of the darkness and change my life. It never crossed my mind that that person would be me.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jun 2014
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 12:55 AM, July 17th (Thursday)


i am the most supportive husband you'll meet. still havent given her ultimatum or anything really harsh regarding A. Then at home she gives me bday card with rollercoaster, saying how we'll get through this.
she might just be venting to her friend. her sister is probably rooting her on to leave me.

i have nothing if this ends tomorrow. Gotta get my head clear.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:10 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Tom67
Member
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 1:00 AM, July 17th (Thursday)

Here
http://www.amazon.com/ICD-PX333-Digital-Voice-Recorder/dp/B00BOXNSRY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1405576822&sr=8-1&keywords=sony+voice+recorder+icd-px333

Use lithium batteries they will go for days.


Posts: 316 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
stronger08
Member
Member # 16953
Default  Posted: 2:48 AM, July 17th (Thursday)

Dude you are aware that this is 2014. You are entitled to SS and other financial concessions from your WW should you D. She wanted to be the bread winner and now she must understand that it came with strings attached. File for D and go for her throat financially. Let her file for full custody of the kids. Do you really think she will get it ? You have been the full time care giver and the courts do not like to upset the kids regimen. And how is she going to excel at her career while caring for kids full time ? She wanted to act like a modern woman and support the home. Well now she can be a modern D woman who has to support her XH. Use it to go back to school and get yourself more marketable in the modern workforce. Bottom line here is that she positioned herself to control the money. Once she had it she abused that position and started fucking the help at work. Now she is using that power to attempt to control your life some more. You are in the same position that millions of women have been in for years. They have rights and so do you. Things will not change unless YOU change them. Your giving the same excuses that many of the female BS give in similar circumstances. I'm telling you the same exact thing I tell them. You have rights and your WW has responsibilities. Enforce them now !!!!!


You cant eat soup with chopsticks.

Posts: 5904 | Registered: Nov 2007
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 6:00 AM, July 17th (Thursday)

I‘ve been rough on you before because I don‘t really see a plan.
Look – I know my advice can be direct and harsh but there is a reason for that. I truly believe that post-d-day we BS have to ACT. Even with what seems to be a truly remorseful WS and an ended affair we need to take action. There are certain actions that need to be done simply to ENSURE all is as is said.

You responded by posting your plan…

But are you following it?

You outline a plan that includes an attorneys visit, doing the 180 and so on. But yet you are reacting to her actions and remaining dormant in the pain she is bringing… See my tagline? Right now it IMHO really refers to you. You remain in misery because you select to do so. Frankly and brutally I don’t see you taking action or following through on your plan but I see excuses for NOT doing so…

OK – I’m not so naïve to think that simply deciding to D will make you feel all good and fine. No matter what you are in for a long, long haul. But I do think that once you decide to take action on a path that leads you eventually out of infidelity you are making progress. That decision isn’t necessarily to divorce – BUT it is a decision to NOT REMAIN IN INFIDELITY. That in itself might lead to divorce.

IMHO what has been your biggest issue is the darkness…
-WW gave you the name of OM but is there any way you can verify it?
-Does this man in fact exist? Is it a vague “Joe in Maintenance” or did she give you a name that you can find on the company web-page?
-Is she sacrificing a pew to save her king?
-Is it that Russian guy and WHY HIM? Why would a woman in a good position fall for Mr. Maintenance?

I have doubts about your wife being the office slut. I have doubts that she’s servicing the men one by one at the cooler. It has to be a very sick environment to allow such things. Yes – more or less in any office you will find people willing to take that step, but generally offices tend to be manned by normal people with normal ethics and normal reactions… The office slut tends to become ostracized along with the office gigolos. Even more so in a mixed environment.

Office affairs tend to take place in secrecy. If anything then work-partners tend to keep their affairs even more discreet at work than anywhere else. It’s a rare case where HR or a manager exposes an affair. It tends to come afterwards – once the affair is in the open or has impacted the work in some way.
But… because of the darkness and the secrecy you are in you are led to assume there is another OM, more OM, ongoing infidelity and all that.
This in turn leads you to be suspect of every conversation. So someone caught talking to her MIGHT be OM. A mention of 10 inches MIGHT be sexual innuendo. But it could also be that gay manager in production talking about how the new machine isn’t working.

BUT YOU DON’T KNOW!!!
And that’s what’s killing you slowly and steadily. THAT is your key problem IMHO.


So you found an excuse to not use that attorney. So have you got another one lined up? Is that another 2 weeks wait for action? Two weeks of wondering if she’s offering sex you can refuse and listening in on VAR’s?

Buddy – ACT! Stop reacting!
Go back to the advice I gave you on telling her that you are simply going with the fact the affair is ongoing and you are refusing to remain in infidelity until and unless she complies with your reasonable demands.

Chances are you can get a relatively clear picture of your rights in divorce online. Chances are that you can get a consult tomorrow or today. Even if not then laws and procedures will ensure your rights and there really is no prerequisite to have filed to start working out of infidelity.



"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5585 | Registered: Sep 2005
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 6:49 AM, July 17th (Thursday)

I like the post from stronger08; its essentially correct' you would almost certainly get the kids and CS/alimony in a divorce. The courts would relish an opportunity to demonstrate that they can act fairly and appropriately if the roles are reversed and the woman is the breadwinner.

If you rugsweep this past infidelity she will cheat again; there are too many temptations which she is not willing to resist. Sadly you seem to live in terror and fear; you just want everything to be normal again so you can resume your past marriage with an adequate amount of good quality sex. Which is, of course, rugsweeping.

The anger and fury are missing. Every post you make reeks of fear and worry about your future, and if you will lose the kids etc. There will be be no consequences for your WW having unprotected sex with the OM and therefore she will do it again.

If you cannot eliminate this all-consuming fear you are fighting a losing battle with both your cheating wife and yourself.


Posts: 1864 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 7:17 AM, July 17th (Thursday)


[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:08 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 7:39 AM, July 17th (Thursday)

Deceived

As others have pointed out, you and NOT going to be thrown out by your wife without support in today's world, just like a woman would not be if situation was reversed. She is going to incur financial obligations and on e she realizes her world will change also she might act like a wife again other than when she wants to pacify you.
Stop worrying about her work computer. You will never see it without anything incriminating being deleted unless you guess the password. If she ever gives it to you , it will be after she has purged what she wanted.
If you read other threads here, you will see that MOST times, not all, the "gut" instinct, of BS is correct. That plus her already having cheated is the valid reason for your upsetting time, and which is why everyone believes something is going on.
Your situation is very difficult not because it is so unique but because you have a very cunning wife and you have been so "scared" of consequences, not her being scared.
Unless she has confided what she is doing to girlfriends , or talks to OM in car, it could be some time until you find out anything concrete and in the meantime you are going to ruin your health with all this anxiety.
If this becomes too much for you , once you have your legal options correctly lined up , you can ask for a lie detector test.
For $450 and an hour or so of time. All of your questions will be answered. If she has nothing to hide she will agree . My guess is she would tell you to fuck off. That will tell you something right there.
I know I keep repeating it, but to me the most telling sign she is up to no good was the sudden change in wardrobe. Married women do NOT do that unless they are dressing for someone or to attract someone, and that someone was not you.
Regardless of what you do, stop worrying that she will keep everything and you will be broke and homeless. If you have a decent lawyer that ain't happening.

[This message edited by Badhurt at 7:43 AM, July 17th (Thursday)]


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 7:53 AM, July 17th (Thursday)

I had been doing 180 and caved, but i did go to an attorney yesterday. i've been reluctant to just pick lawyers out of the phone book because i read horror stories about people getting screwed from bad choices of attorneys.

The meeting with the layer yesterday led me to believe that i would not be getting much money for support. because ive been out of IT for so long, i'm lucky to get a job at a helpdesk. i live in a fairly rural area.
Bigger & OK now,
I'm right handed, and just got out of surgery. It'll take 8-11 more weeks to heal according to the doc.
i know this sounds like excuses, but its all true. I can't see my 11 and 12 year olds coming home to an empty, tiny apartment, while i look for work. There is no guarantee i'll even get my girls.

If that lawyer painted a better picture i might be motivated to serve papers faster. he made it sound like everything was 50/50 chance of things working out in my favor, at best.

right now i feel like i don't have a lot of options. i'm trying to figure out what to do,


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 8:01 AM, July 17th (Thursday)

right now i feel like i don't have a lot of options

But you still have options and since they are so few choosing between them should be easier.
But then – choosing to remain in infidelity is a choice in itself.

I can't see my 11 and 12 year olds coming home to an empty, tiny apartment, while i look for work. There is no guarantee i'll even get my girls.

If your biggest fear is that MAYBE POSSIBLY (despite “normal” custody being 50/50 with prime custody usually with the main care-giver – you the SAHD) you will lose all access to your daughters then simply accept that your wife might be screwing around. Use condoms and ask her to be careful.

Once again – I am direct in my advice. But sometimes that’s what’s needed.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5585 | Registered: Sep 2005
HobbesTheTiger
Member
Member # 41477
Default  Posted: 8:13 AM, July 17th (Thursday)

Hi!

I'm so sorry to hear what you and your kiddos have been going through! I wish you all the best!

Have you considered contacting organisations that deal specifically with dads' rights and asked them for their help? Or at least if they could give you some advice which lawyer in your area to select? Organisations such as http://www.dadsdivorce.com/ and http://dadsrights.com/ ?

Also, try asking general divorce communities/organsiations etc. for the same advice! Try ever source of information to get some advice which lawyers in your area are good and which are not! I think it's ludicrous that you as a primary caregiver would not be entitled to at least 50% custody and at least temporary spousal support, especially since you gave up a lucrative job at the insistince of your stbxww (you have mentioned this to attorneys, right?)!

So maybe you have to find a shark/momma-bear/papa-bear type of lawyer, perhaps someone who also hates infidelity.

Best wishes


BxBf, 26
Lots of FOO&other issues, working it through therapy
Legal profession

Posts: 518 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Continental Europe
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, July 17th (Thursday)

Badhurt,
Understood. If i could find a decent lawyer, i would in a heartbeat. that is what i'm doing right now, trying to find one.
The wardrobe didnt change now. it changed back in dec or jan when i feel the A started. The only wardrobe issue recently was, she agreed to buy some business wear. She came back with a dress and a short skirt. On the day she wore the short skirt, i told her how i felt about it and she never wore it again. she also stopped wearing the worst offenders in her wardrobe.

I am worried that she is still cheating. I don't think she broke it off with the Russian maintenence guy, so i'm going to send an anonymous letter to OM's wife from someone who is "disgusted that her coworker is having an affair with his husband". I am going to name him in the letter and consider using my WW's first name. Either that, or NOT her name, but the company she works for. It's a huge office building.

Meanwhile, looking for a lawyer....


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 8:25 AM, July 17th (Thursday)

Hobbes thanks! heading to URLs right now


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 8:26 AM, July 17th (Thursday)

Deceived,

Well, if you can confirm Russian on the VAR, and it is after work, my guess is she is still seeing him.
Be patient with the VAR. it will eventually get you some information unless she travels in silence, which most people up to no good do not because they feel like in the car they can say anything.
obviously in the workplace she IS going to have conversations with men about something since she does not work with all women.
You just have to keep your wits about you, and i would take the suggestion of trying to find a "mens rights' law firm.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 8:55 AM, July 17th (Thursday)

Being in a rural area, your choices of lawyers might be limited, but a men's rights lawyer would be great. They advertise all the time here, but I am in a big city.

Can you ask anyone for a reference to a good lawyer. Look on Avvo.com or Martindale.com for lawyers. Though, I have never been overly certain about the reviews on Avvo, I know they do not let negative posts get posted.

Just keep listening to the VAR. Which as you know can be more frustrating than not listening at all. I went through the same thing recording telephone calls and listening to the recording. It was always, what did she say. And then using editing software until I was crazy. I did get some useful information though.

I thought this maintenance guy worked at a different building.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 8:59 AM, July 17th (Thursday)

And as far as I understand, the more attorneys you consult with regarding your situation, the less your wife can hire from that pool because of conflict of interest. So you are also depleting HER choice of local attorneys in the process.

Finding an attorney that is very strong on family law for SAHD would be ideal. If that attorney happens to be female, icing on the cake.

I say utilize the time in healing your hand to do the D prep work, intel gathering, and preparing to restart your career. You'll get your answers for everything soon enough. She already screwed OM, so the damage is already done.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 653 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
Shockleader
Member
Member # 36827
Default  Posted: 9:17 AM, July 17th (Thursday)

In my SAHD situation, I sought support, and that threw her into a RAGE! Fine, I kept at it, used it against her, and the judge put a big ol' stop to her bullshit. I got a huge chunk of her 401k (which I made her a ton of $$$ being the manager of and can use w/o penalty), also could have dug into her pension (that put her into total rage), took all the stock portfolio, most of the savings, many of her retirement investments... Yep, all up front instead of a monthly check for 3-5 years.

Even in my backward ass local, they saw how she was trying to get off leaving me with nothing after what I did for her, and they called her on it. IMO you really need to push very hard with a good lawyer, who will advocate very hard for you that your wife's great success, was achieved by your help to take care of the family. Accept nothing less, and fight like your life depends on it because it does.


D-Day spring 2012
Me BS 47
Xcheater 44
One DD 19
Married 23 years
Divorced 12/23/13 Fu*king A!

The cruel, the unkind, those without honor, feast on the tender heart...


Posts: 653 | Registered: Sep 2012
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 9:20 AM, July 17th (Thursday)

Please don't do a vague anonymous reveal to the OMW. She deserves truth, and that involves all of the information you have. You know the pain that withheld details cause; don't deliver them to someone else.

Further, anonymous letters are too easily dismissed. They give the cheater heads-up to better cover his tracks. They increase and prolong pain.

Tell her, or don't. Don't half-ass it with your own confused agenda.


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 53, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 9142 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 9:30 AM, July 17th (Thursday)

DG, if you send the letter to the OMW, that would probably seal the deal on getting a divorce. R would probably not be a thought anymore.

Consider all of your actions and how they affect the future.

Right now, I think you have more to do than contact the other spouse. You have got to find out more, you have got to find a good lawyer, you have got to get your ducks in a row as they say. And you have to get a plan for your future.

From what Shockleader just posted, that is very positive for you in the event of divorce.

Why do you want to contact the other BS at this point. It will end the affair for certain, but then again, you dont really know if it is still going on.

Have you even confirmed it is this guy, without question. You sure dont want to be sending letters to the wrong person.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
Shockleader
Member
Member # 36827
Default  Posted: 10:03 AM, July 17th (Thursday)

These POS WW's just love to bully SAHD's, and rage thinking they might have to pay up... Shit, my cheater had gone so far to avoid support, she had her first lawyer write, and present total bald faced lies... Here it is verbatim:

"considering the fact that each and every asset of the parties was acquired through the sole effort, energy and contribution of wife. After 23 years of failure to contribute financially in any way whatsoever to the marriage, your client wishes to receive alimony, this is unacceptable..."

Ahhh lying/delusional bitch, you seem to be 'forgetting' the $$$ I earned as a military officer (remember living with me in Europe?), the many other jobs I had before and after children, you know the ones I gave up to move so you could climb the ladder... All made so very clear with the stack of W2's, tax filings, and SS lifetime earnings sheet I presented, showing MY earnings to the penny. Yep, they are that pathetic, hungry for control, and lying is soooo easy for them. How fucking stupid are they??? VERY, cause they are fucking delusional!

Not to mention Craig, when I file for SS, I can use her earning as the basis, not mine should I not remarry, etc. The fear is paralyzing, but dealing with these remorseless, completely selfish cheaters who lie constantly pushes you along to end the madness... Yes, SAHD situations will most likely encounter bias/double standard, but that is the situation and you must put a boot on the POS WW throat, and demand to be treated fairly... There is hope!


D-Day spring 2012
Me BS 47
Xcheater 44
One DD 19
Married 23 years
Divorced 12/23/13 Fu*king A!

The cruel, the unkind, those without honor, feast on the tender heart...


Posts: 653 | Registered: Sep 2012
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, July 17th (Thursday)

Deceived,

Don't start sending letters to anyone now. if you were going to do that it should have been done right after it happened, and you do not even know if AP is married or if he still is your problem.

She will go ballistic if you do that. Not that that matters, but get her ballistic for something meaningful.

Stop worrying about the little shit. keep concentrating on finding a competent lawyer, and getting your resume together, and making some plans on how to move on.

So far, you have not said much about her staying out late or going places unannounced or being MIA for hours at a time when she would ordinarily be home. it also appears that she is not tied to her desk every minute of the work day so i still assume whatever she is doing it is during normal work hours. You have also not said anything about her staying out supposedly with girlfriends.

You have the VAR. You can also install a GPS on car that will tell you where she is driving to during the day. I would do that also.

If she is actively having an affair, it will surface eventually on the VAR or GPS if you do it.

I again say sometimes knowing you are watching like a hawk by 180 and detaching can make the cheater more careful. But I'll defer to the others advice to keep up with the 180, but it does not seem to be working yet. If she thought you were totally fooled again she might take more chances.

this is a mind and power game as well as an affair game. She is deceiving you, and i see nothing wrong with you using any tactic at your disposal to fool her.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 11:38 AM, July 17th (Thursday)


I suspect his office is in the basement. That would explain how WW got away with sex during the day.

She works on 10th floor of the building. He might be bugging her to get together again, or they might have just had sex before she went on her way to her presentation.

Looking for another lawyer, continues

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:08 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Tom67
Member
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 11:49 AM, July 17th (Thursday)

Your town isn't the biggest get consults from as many as you can.
Time to focus on your future.

Posts: 316 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 11:50 AM, July 17th (Thursday)

He said something about waiting till something 55. i think (time?).
WW made some joke "it should only take 10 inches back and forth, i mean up and down... '
"maybe we'll measure that later".
The imagination is a very scary thing, and all WS's needs to understand that lying creates the imagination to run wild...they actually cause the accusations by lying. If that makes any sense.

Your wife could have been talking to a maintenance guy about desk legs or a chair that sits to low.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 12:53 PM, July 17th (Thursday)

You live in a rural area in Illinois. How many Russian men are running around town?

Im sorry, but if you heard the man outside the car flirting with her, and he had a Russian accent, then it's the OM. The chances of there being another Russian man who works with your WW are pretty small...especially in rural Illinois.


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 8081 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
cissi
Member
Member # 21737
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, July 17th (Thursday)

I really wish you would listen and trust what people are saying here about your situation with your kids. You are the primary caregiver of these children and the courts will recognize that as they do the same for stay-at-home moms. You will get child support and most likely alimony.

Please hear what we are telling you.


Posts: 1450 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Southern California
BlueBlueEyes
Member
Member # 43949
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, July 17th (Thursday)

Deceived
We are all in similar boats. No one here is speaking without understanding yours fears and feelings. I'm still very much in the middle of my own mess. But I have one question for you to honestly consider "are you in love with your ww and marriage or are you in love with WHAT YOU WANT it to have been?"
I believe you really know the answer to that and wonder why you aren't rushing head first into ending this pain and finding someone who's worth having. IMO you need a job of any kind foremost for a lot of reasons. Self esteem for one. What man wants to depend on a cheating @&$& to support him? As a woman I'd rather live in a shack I can afford myself than rely on a cheater. Move!


BW - 49
WH - 50
Married 30 years
Beautiful Son, Daughter and 2 Grandsons.

OW - multiple, just found out about ALL of them, Husband coming out of years of fog due to multiple childhood and military events.

Hopeful but cautious


Posts: 194 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Texas
cissi
Member
Member # 21737
Default  Posted: 3:40 PM, July 17th (Thursday)

There is nothing wrong with a man, or his self-esteem, for staying home to take care of the children, especially when one has JRA, which I am assuming is juvenile rheumatoid arthritis?

When he and his wife, together, made this decision for him to stay home and her to go back to work, I don't believe she was a "cheating ass" then. Things have obviously changed.

In my opinion, he still should not have to run out and get a job. He has a job, one that his wife begged for. In this situation, just like if the primary caretaker was a woman, he should be able to support himself and children until he can get a new career going. That's going to have to be decided by the courts.


Posts: 1450 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Southern California
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 5:32 PM, July 17th (Thursday)

I agree with cissi.

BUT, you do need to get your resume together, start networking, get on LinkedIn, get in touch with some recruiters, etc. ASAP. Get the ground work going.

I can assure you that your stories of skills obsolescence are overblown.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 901 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 6:12 PM, July 17th (Thursday)

Right now, companies cannot fill their jobs because of a lack of skilled applicants. And you have the skills and experience and once you are brought up to date on some things you will be hired. Working with computers since the early 80s, I know how fast time goes by and what happens in those years. But I also know that companies are really looking for skilled employees in the tech field right now.

Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
Salt
Member
Member # 43726
Default  Posted: 7:19 PM, July 17th (Thursday)

DG,
I think you should get a GPS tracker for her car as well. Then be patient with respect to gathering evidence. Allow her to think you are pacified...for now. Here are my suggestions for you:

1. Work referrals for an attorney. Set up consults. You should be able to get several and you will get pretty knowledgeable in your interviews to select a good one. Find the most high-powered you can and keep a record of each consult. Each one you have is one your wife doesn't get to have because you paid them first. Ask each consult for a referral for another.

2. Keep doing the 180. Allow your wife to think you are slightly pacified, but not her pawn.

3. You should be able to leave the VAR in her car for up to 3 days. I did and it still had plenty of battery left. Best if you aren't checking everynight.

4. Install a GPS tracker. Observe and gather evidence, quietly.

5. Sign up for some new training for yourself in your profession. It will make you feel more confident and that's worth a lot.

And listen to other SAHD's. You will have to fight for what is right for yourself but that will always be the case, has always been the case. Don't be intimidated. I did it too, DG. I had been out of work for 8 years too....


BS, 54 Divorced 2012
I read and walked for miles at night along the beach, writing bad blank verse and searching endlessly for someone wonderful who would step out of the darkness and change my life. It never crossed my mind that that person would be me.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jun 2014
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 10:02 PM, July 17th (Thursday)

Did you ever think about hiring a PI to watch the Russian/worker and your wife?

I still don't see why you need proof. She had an A. She refuses to let you see her electronics, which no WS that wants their M and has nothing to hide would ever do. She is still having an A then. Plain and simple. Transparency = most likely no longer an A. Hiding electronics = having an A.

I get that you want to catch her in the act. But, seriously...her not sharing the electronics should be good enough to take more action. Give her the book how to help spouses heal and let her see why sharing the electronics is important so she doesn't blow a gasket. Not that it would guarantee anything. She will wipe it clean and take it further underground or create secret accounts.

I don't know- hire a PI to watch her walk to and from her car.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 10:21 PM, July 17th (Thursday)

FIRST... I want to thank you all, again. I cannot even ponder where I'd be if I hadn't found you. I'm socking away a few bucks to upgrade my profile, just because I'm so grateful.

As for lawyers....I have not been able to get any referrals other than one who almost seemed lethargic. I can't afford to pay a lawyer for a consult. I'm going to have to start rolling the dice and set up consults with any lawyer who will do a free one.

I'm getting my resume in order and I'm going to ask my boss if he'd have anything full time for me. I do some Filemaker Database stuff for him, and don't like what I'm doing, but if it gives me enough for a decent living, i'll do what it takes. I really need to brush up on SQL and for the helluva it get A+ certified, for general desktop support, if I can find one.

I agree with Cissi... I don;t plan on living off of my WW forever, but I gave up my ascending career reluctantly. She had to ask and have a few conversations before I agreed because I didn't want to end up in this situation. That was 8 years ago. At that time, I knew that we'd be together forever, so I wasn't worried about getting back up to snuff when my girls were high school age (they are now 11 and 12).

I just had surgery on my hand. This has several implications. Filling out resumes for one. I can't even sign my name right now.

We are in debt and I don't have disposable income.

EXCUSES!!! I'm really not trying to use them that way. I just can't picture myself announcing D to my WW, who I'm sure will accept it. She controls the money because it's her paycheck. For summer, because I'm taking care of my girls, I make approx. $100/wk before taxes. I have to be realistic here.

I need to get my head in a place where I don;t give a sh#t what my WW is doing at work. That way I can concentrate on what I'm doing to get out of this mess. The 180 was working for me until I snapped, last sunday. If I can get back to that place, I'm golden. That way, my girls can have a normal life while this is going on.

Cissi, I can totally see my WW trying to claim abuse, and doing whatever she can to thwart support. The lawyer I spoke with, made it sound like it's not an automatic thing, and child custody isn't either. I totally trust the experience of all of the wonderful people here at SI, helping me. I just don't have any solid proof that I'm going to have my girls and support, so I need to set things up so i feel like i'm going to be somewhat secure. if i get a lawyer who can tell me what you guys are telling me, and has a good record, i'd be more willing to move forward.

That being said, my world is so freaking upside down right now, I could end up doing a 360 during this attempt at 180.

I hear you all. Some say run, some say get a strategy in place. I'm taking it ALL in. This is the toughest situation in my life, and I grew up in abusive foster homes! Boot camp was as tough as a game of BINGO, compared to this.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:05 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 10:28 PM, July 17th (Thursday)

hopeful mother, i can't afford a PI. I looked into it before DDay. If I had time to hang out, I could potentially drive there and hang out in their underground parking structure.
I am going to give my WW that book. We also have MC scheduled. I'm sure D is in our future, but I need to drag this out a little so my hand can heal, get some decent job leads, and find a good lawyer. So far, she is fully cooperating.
I know she probably won't give me electronics. I think she is probably still having that affair. I need the proof for me because this is such a big decision (D). I know to the SI vets that I'm doing more harm by dragging my feet, but until someone can give me 100% guarantee I'll have my girls and be okay, I need to put as much into place to have that happen, myself.
I am reading everything you all are writing. I'm trying to follow as much as possible. I'm on my second try at 180.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:06 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Tom67
Member
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 10:40 PM, July 17th (Thursday)

Ok Deceived that sounds like a plan you going into PI mode.
What do you have to lose, NOTHING.
If you need my help since I'm closer let me know.

Posts: 316 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 12:36 AM, July 18th (Friday)

Thanks Tom, I could use an actual PI. know any who does charity?
OM works in office bldg basement i think.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:06 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
justastatistic
New Member
Member # 36314
Default  Posted: 6:52 AM, July 18th (Friday)

First, keep a VAR on you at all times when this blows up. If she's like so many other WS's, she'll try to minimize her financial exposure in a divorce by making claims of abuse. Protect yourself with recordings. If she does call the cops, let her sign a complaint before you play any recordings for the cops. That way they have her for filing a false complaint, and cops love to nab people for that stuff.

Second, start getting yourself employable quick. Despite what Cissi, said, the court's do not treat SAHD's the same as SAHM's, despite what the law says they just don't . The sad reality is that family court's are biased toward women. SAHM's who are cheated on are looked at as victim's who need to be protected. SAHD's in the same situation are looked at as freeloaders who shouldn't be rewarded for their laziness and who of course got cheated on because they lost the respect of their overworked wives.

Your lawyer is right, custody and alimony are not a given in your case. It's sad, wrong, but true. Don't believe me? Go sit in family court for a week and see what happens every damn day.


Posts: 41 | Registered: Jul 2012
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 7:21 AM, July 18th (Friday)

She controls the money because it's her paycheck.
I think we all wish we had gone to law school. Isn't half of her paycheck yours in the marriage.

Are you able to see where the money has been going? Looking at bank statements is a great way to find out about affairs sometimes.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
LifeisCrazy
Member
Member # 38287
Default  Posted: 7:31 AM, July 18th (Friday)

I posted to you about two weeks ago and recommended that you get tougher with your wife. That you begin demanding and stop asking. I can see that things haven't changed in that regard - and, as a result, your situation hasn't changed.

I understand the desire to find out what's happening behind your back and to learn more about the affair. But, at this point, it doesn't really matter. What DOES matter is what your wife intends to do about it. If she wants to reconcile then she needs to take the steps to accomplish that (and, with reconciliation, will come the "story" you're searching for). But if she doesn't want to reconcile and simply wants to continue having you live in misery, then YOU need to make some decisions.

First off, you need to stop with the BS excuses of why you haven't met with a half dozen attorneys by now. Most have free consultations and you should have met them all. You MUST know your rights. And, btw, it's complete bullshit that you wouldn't get spousal support - a SAHD whose wife makes 50, 100, 200K per year will get almost half that in support. There may be variations state to state but there's not THAT much variation. It will be her job to support you through the transition and she WILL be ordered to do so - go find an attorney and get this hammered out so you can stop worrying about it.

Second, there is something in this world called a credit card. Yes, I know you don't want to incur the debt... but, you know what? There are times in life that you MUST! If you own a house then you've probably incurred debt - good debt. Apply for a credit card and hire an attorney. I know it sucks - but this is a life changing event you and NEED representation.

And lastly (for now), STOP being so accommodating to your wife. She cheated on you. Let her know that THIS is going to be how it is from now on - at least until either you divorce or you are more confident in her actions. She gives you passwords and transparency to EVERYTHING - and if she refuses, if she gives you any pushback to ANYTHING that you need to feel comfortable - tell her to get the fuck out of the house. Let her feel the repercussions of what happens when a Mom decides to have an affair and isn't acting appropriately.

Stop worrying about your kids - they are going to be fine. They will either have parents who show them what it means to accept responsibility for their actions and work through a crisis.... or they'll learn that their Dad isn't a doormat who let their mom fuck him over. They will love you in a small apartment, in their current home... and they'll love you if you're living in a shoebox. What is most important is that you do WHAT'S RIGHT.

Stop being nice. Make a list of your requirements so that you don't stray off course in the conversation. Then demand it. Strength!


"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

Posts: 159 | Registered: Jan 2013
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 7:34 AM, July 18th (Friday)

A new 180
Last night I avoided sleeping with WW. This is crucial because that is my weakness....yes, even knowing she may still be having sex at her office building. That's how strong my codependence or her spell over me, or whatever the hell draws me to her, is.

I'm trying to avoid contact and conversations although that's become tough as well, as she's starting to talk to me like a friend, again.

You know the saying, keep your friends close, and your enemies closer"? I feel like I'm doing that. As long as we are nice and civilized, she excels at being human around the house, and goes above and beyond. I want her to think that I'm moving on and trusting her because she;s careless and a terrible liar.

I am taking XANAX and an AD, to help quash my absolute and illogical love for her. Yes, even with the A. I don't mind being called pathetic. I have to earn my 180, and I will.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 8:18 AM, July 18th (Friday)

Life,
Stop worrying about your kids - they are going to be fine. They will either have parents who show them what it means to accept responsibility for their actions and work through a crisis.... or they'll learn that their Dad isn't a doormat who let their mom fuck him over

I don't agree with this. They don't know the situation. As far as they are concerned, we have our arguments, then we talk it out, and we work them out. But the last thing I need, is for them to worry about divorce because rushed it.

Before WW's A, I've discussed divorce with my girls because of their friends. My girls are scared to death of that. The reason I'm being nice right now isn't so my WW will hopefully change her ways, it's buying me time so i can get the lawyers, look for work, finish my current college class (which this situation has made almost impossible) and most of all, give my girls the status quo in their daily life.
I totally understand and agree with what you wrote. I've read the same thing from MANY others here. If I confront my WW again about electronics, or give her an ultimatum now, I predict she will not leave the house. Life in this house will be a living hell for everyone. Not trying to be a martyr, but I'd rather not inflict that on my children. I am working on another round of 180, to tolerate the possibility of WW still having an A. Again, I don;t have absolute proof that it's still going on. I assume it is, from clues and my gut, but I want to have proof, to help my 180.
Right now, my girls see us argue and make up, and everything is normal. If I were to give WW an ultimatum right now, it would be dysfunction, 24/7.
Again though, I totally "get" and agree with you. If there was a chance that WW would cave under an ultimatum, I would employ that tactic in a heartbeat.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 8:28 AM, July 18th (Friday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, July 18th (Friday)

Do you have any close friends that aren't her friends to PI for you? Or, at best to watch the kids while you "run errands"?

If I were to give WW an ultimatum right now, it would be dysfunction, 24/7.

Unreal...the crap these WS unload when THEY are the ones in the wrong. I can't wait for your hand to heal and to get out of that situation. From your posts, you really need to start covering your own ass. You paint her as the type to get her way all the time and basically abusive. She is going to put you through the ringer. You will need proof that you aren't abusive and everything else.

Sure hope you reach the anger stage soon, for your children's sake. So, they don't repeat this cycle of dysfunctional relationships. That in itself should make you angry. You don't want them to grow up to be bully's like your wife or to be bullied like you.

Keep up the 180, find that lawyer, and be careful with that VAR. Good luck this weekend.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 9:05 AM, July 18th (Friday)

We all have our advice to you, drawn from our own experiences and the wisdom from others. We pass it on to you, but only YOU know best how to handle your situation. If hard evidence is what you need to give your conscious the green light to move forward then that is what you have to do. The risk is that the longer you wait for evidence, the more you subject yourself to your WW's gas-lighting and mind fucking. If you are strong mentally and emotionally to withstand that abuse then we are here with you. Just know there are examples here where the BS just does not move forward even with hard evidence compelling him/her to do so.

Also know that what's important while you do the 180 on your wife, you show your love and devotion to your daughters. You seem to be doing that, and continuing to do so will assure them that regardless of what choices you have to make, whether it be separating and moving out to going through with divorce, they will know that they are NOT the reason for you make those choices. Change for kids is scary. You being a lighthouse for them in the pending shit storm will be very important for them. Prepare them the best you can.

What is most important is that you have a plan and that you are moving forward with it. As for your odds on getting what you want in terms of CS, alimony, custody, property, it really depends on how good that attorney is. One of my friends battled through two D's with both XW's who cheated on him. He battled through alcoholism, losing his job, and holding on to his house, fighting for custody for all three daughters (one from first marriage and two from the second). He went through hell but he pressed on. He ended up selling his home to pay for his attorneys fee but now has primary custody and CS of all three daughters who love him very much. One has just started college while the the other two are not far behind. He is now dating a wonderful woman, has a great job at a financial firm (started from ground level handling support calls), and taking courses at a private University. This man turned his life around in a major way, but he had to hit rock bottom first. The attorney he had at the time was just a few years out of law school and didn't know what he was up against at the time but took on the challenge stayed by my friend's side. This attorney now practices family law for professional athletes. He's damn good and damn expensive. He was the first attorney I sought consultation. I didn't hire him since I went the mediation route but he was my backup if my D went full blown contested and he gave me tons of free advice that quelled a lot of my initial fears. All four attorneys I consulted tell me the courts now look more into what is in the best interest of the kids. Use that as your guide and do and plan what's best for them as a single dad would. Show the court you have you daughters' best interest in mind should you D.

The point is anything is possible and it depends on how determined you are to go about your plan. As long as your are in motion, opportunities just have an interesting way of appearing. It's the stagnation of a situation that does more to destroy the will and the spirit. You've already taken some very important steps forward. Just don't lose your momentum. Whatever you do, stay vigilant in your plan. Make sure you have some steps to follow once you have your hard evidence. Like I said, it won't matter if your WW screwed the OM in the past or continues to do so now as the damage has already been done. She clearly is trying to control you and the situation and has no intention of leaving you right away, else she would have already filed for D herself. What she wants is to cake-eat and her "nicing" you is just grooming you for more cake. You're in the process of closing the infidelity bakery for good. You will get to that point of laying out your ultimatum, but I understand it is important for you to be able to execute the consequences immediately if the requirements are not met. But between now and that moment, use your time VERY wisely and efficiently. Document the times she is out of the house without explanation and her behavior with you and your daughters. Get as many steps ahead of her as you can before you decide have her served. Buy another VAR and keep that one on you at ALL times. You can use your smartphone too and get a free app to record. I've done that myself.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 653 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 9:24 AM, July 18th (Friday)

as she's starting to talk to me like a friend, again.
A friend, not a wife, correct?

You are her buddy as long as you let her get away with what she already did do and might still be doing.

Have you confirmed on your own who the OM was in the first place?

Keep up the 180, next time she asks you what is wrong, just matter of fact tell her, she will not be open and honest with you. If she cannot share her electronics, than there is no really friendship. Obviously.

You need to empower yourself away from the current problems. Working on job connections will start to make you feel in power again. Right now, she has all the damn power, she works, controls the money and controls everyone's destiny in that house.

And I am certain that is the main reason you feel like crap and are taking meds.

Start working on independence and you will feel better.

And do not settle for a lethargic lawyer, they are the worst. And dont settle for the first rah rah lawyer either. They have a tendency to get your hopes way up and then way down when they settle for something far less than you expected.

Are there any former coworkers, or friends you can discretely that have been divorced that you can ask about their lawyers.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, July 18th (Friday)

WW doesnt go out. All of the cheating was at work. She goes to work and comes home, asleep on the couch by 9-10pm. Even on weekends if she goes to the store, she'll take one or both of the girls, or we'll all go.

Not sure how to prove I'm not abusive, aside from my girls as a witness. I will try to keep an extra VAR available, but can;t she just say I freaked out at another time that wasn't recorded? I can't imagine a judge listening to thousands of hours of recordings, unless I'm just documenting times when we're discussing things and it shows I'm calm, while maybe she's angry?

I don't have any friends in my area. they are all over an hour away, in the city. i have to be careful who i ask for lawyer referrals because all parents around here gossip. i only know one or two who have been divorced, and their kids are in classes with my kids. So far, I've got to go through the phone book. I've been looking for lawyers who have reviews online.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 10:07 AM, July 18th (Friday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 12:20 PM, July 18th (Friday)

I can appreciate your POV. You do not wish to divorce for financial reasons; the impact on your daughters and the fear of losing those said daughters. So lets take divorce out of the picture; you can't afford it anyway.

In another 5 or 6 years those children will be off to college and there will be no child support issues. Meanwhile do the 180 and establish an independent mind frame with little or no emotional connection to your wife. Work on your career and get back into the workforce full-time; in 5 years time you should be well - established as a respected professional and pulling a decent salary.

Then leave your cheating STBXWW to her own devices while you set about rebuilding your life. Move close to where your children are attending college and start again. Your ex-wife can indulge in her mindless sexual escapades to her hearts content; you just won't care.


Posts: 1864 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 12:36 PM, July 18th (Friday)

I'm not planning on dragging this out for years.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 12:42 PM, July 18th (Friday)

Thats good to hear.

You'll be in a mental institution going through this for years. Reading the agony you are in I can't imagine dragging it out.

Just try to get your career regenerated. IT is the one field I would think is certainly not contracting with all the snooping going on in all aspects of everyone's life. I believe if you had a good job prospect you would not be intimidated by your wife for a New York second.

Anyone who would not be apprehensive in your situation needs a lot of work themselves. But the bottom line is anyone can only take some much pain and disrespect before they cry "uncle" and say enough is enough.

Right now the VAR is your best bet if you do not think she is going anywhere but back and forth to work.

the real surprising thing to me is that she would her career and livlihood in jeopardy. I would think if she just wanted to bang someone else she would keep it away from work. but then again there are a lot of dumb people out there.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Shockleader
Member
Member # 36827
Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, July 18th (Friday)

OK now, respectfully, that would kill a person who has integrity, a good moral compass, and honor... When I see similar suggestions on SI (I especially hate the "devil that you know crap"), or hear the same faulty rational from a BS, I post this little blip I wrote a year or so back:

When I read your story and posts, and many others from SI, I feel like it's stories from hopeless prisoners, who barely exist in sad, dank, gray life sentences, no hope of parole, feeling they will never see outside the wall, and everyday is just another day making gravel and eat slop. Goddamnit, you only get so many spins on this rock, and my heart breaks for you folks that are enduring life, not enjoying it!

My man DG is gonna kick the snot outa this shit sandwich situation RIGHT NOW, figure a way out to do it, get rid of the POS cheater who seems to have no problem destroying lives, and when he is ready, have a lady in his life who treats him with respect and dignity... And a hell of a lot sooner than he realizes


D-Day spring 2012
Me BS 47
Xcheater 44
One DD 19
Married 23 years
Divorced 12/23/13 Fu*king A!

The cruel, the unkind, those without honor, feast on the tender heart...


Posts: 653 | Registered: Sep 2012
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, July 18th (Friday)

Well, you have been complaining you cannot afford a lawyer and you would lose the kids and be left penniless living in a crummy apartment and you fear you can't get back in the workforce after 8 years. It does seem that you are reluctant to divorce. So, being the helpful SI member I am, I'm trying to consider other logical alternatives.



Posts: 1864 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 1:15 PM, July 18th (Friday)

The OM doesn't work with her. She works in an office which is in a huge office building. The OM, is a fairly large Russian dude who looks like a nosebreaker. I think his office is in the basement of the building. I have a nice picture of him, his wife, and his two young daughters taken from his W's Facebook page. I have it to get me angry.

Judging from our old phone bills, she'd call him (1 min call), and they;d meet probably in the basement of the building. The calls stopped after her confession. If this is still going on, she's using her work ipad (if it has call capabilities) or work phone.

See...I'm able to write this today, without weakness. I don't give a crap if they're banging away as I type this. Successful day two of 180 and I'm SLOWLY getting my balls back.

I know that most people here think it's best to jump away as soon as possible. My wife is going to do her best to destroy me when this comes to light. I'm actively looking at lawyers and will beg family members for donations or get a new credit card when I find the right one. BUT I PERSONALLY NEED PROOF. I know that everyone is chuckling, "you have your proof, she's already cheated", "You have your proof, the same gut feeling that clued you in, the first time" etc, etc...
I need proof for several reasons. ALL FOR ME, not for anyone else, not her, not court, just for me. If she is still cheating, she's doing the best cake eating job, you've ever seen. She took care of me when I had surgery on my hand, even though I was ignorning her (I was doing 180 last week), she has been doing a lot of things that make her look like she's sincere in wanting R.

Excellent! She is a lazy liar. The more secure she gets, the more of a chance she'll f-up this time around.

It may very well have been, she was walking to her car, he was working on the garage with the other droids, and he followed her and talked to her. Meeting her when she arrives in the morning, is another matter altogether.

While I obviously don't know many aspects of my W, I do know that when I confront her with proof, or confidence, she backs down pretty easily. I know that won't last in a situation like this, but I need to take advantage of everything I can.

She will slip up, I will tell her to leave the house with at least a few changes of clothes, and rest will be a freaking nightmare. Her biggest fear will be if I tell everyone she/we know.

Our children are 11 and 12 and very mature. They know what divorce is, and they know what cheating is. They are scared to death of divorce. I have no doubt that my WW will tell them lies about the situation and not take the high road, so I'm also going to have to make a decision about telling them the truth. If WW and I BOTH told them "we are having differences that we can't work out" or some BS like that, I'm sure it would be the most healthy, but she's told them things behind my back before, and she;s scared to death of them knowing. When we've argued or discussed her A in the house at night, she'd freak out that it was too loud and the kids might hear.

Anyway, if I can get strong with 180 again, I can make this a much easier transition when I confront her with D. OR, I can just dive off the cliff and pray that I land in water.

I am not going to live in an open marriage. When I am strong, I can tolerate the possibility that something is going on, as long as I don;t know for sure. When I know for sure, that's different. If she's meeting OM, she will screw up. If she's not, I'll wait until I'm strong enough, and still give her ultimatum for secrets in electronics.

I am amazingly not crying right now. I barely have a stomach ache. I will continue to get stronger with 180 and the prospect of a job.
And don;t laugh, but because her offers of sex seem to be my downfall, I might check out a sex addicts anonymous meeting. Anything to break the hold she has.

I don't mind the 2x4s, by the way. I'm just grateful for the feedback I get here. You all give me strength. The comments that are nice, and the comments that are brutal.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:04 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Brandon808
Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, July 18th (Friday)

And dont laugh, but because her offers of sex seem to be my downfall, I might check out a sex addicts anonymous meeting. Anything to break the hold she has.
I''m not laughing. I just don''t think this makes you a sex addict. You want your WW back. You wanted her to be remorseful and show you genuine love. When she offers sex on some level it feels like she might be reconnecting. Giving you back something she''s taken away. It''s normal for that to be difficult to resist. That''s also what makes it so risky for you. If it was just sex for the sake of sex then I wouldn''t worry. I mean she is your wife so if you two were engaging sex for the release, the physical enjoyment as opposed to the connection that is no big deal. However, it sounds like it has a deeper effect on you than it does to her. That''s why you need to stay away. It''s not sex that is your compulsion here. In my opinion it is your desire to reconnect with your WW.

As far as needing personally to see the evidence, well I have been there, done that. I had a need to find something concrete. Very understandable.
I cannot stress this enough...do not confront her when you do find it.
Pull back and figure out your next move in conjunction with your attorney.

Your attorney should start off by asking what you want and then ask what you need. Sometimes the two converge but often we never get what we want from D because we didn''t want this sh*t to begin with. So we have to focus on what we need. Whatever hard evidence you have it is your leverage but not forever.

From what you''ve posted your WW will not want others to find out but that fear has a shelf life. Over time people will care less about that because it is "in the past". Also, the more time passes she will work on turning your kids and mutual acquaintances against you. Your WW doesn''t back down as much as she tactically retreats. So confronting her with the evidence will just result in her taking a longer, more deceptive route to do this. We''ve seen it before on SI so not using any proof, again just my opinion, is not useful. If you have proof you have the truth. Share the truth. Just do so in a way that you don''t screw yourself legally.

Please get a background check done on the OM. You can hire a PI to do that since you already have his name and place of employment.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 4118 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
MC_Jack
Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 1:35 PM, July 18th (Friday)

I like what ok now had to say.

There have been 'marital arrangements' since the beginning of the institution.

If DG decides to remain in the marriage for lifestyle reasons, that is fine. I can accept HIS decision, as only he knows his true priorities. In that case I would strongly recommend a separate bedroom, and really a separate life *fully detached* from the WW. He has his own friends, hobbies, career, lovers, whatever. DG just interacts with WW over childcare and finances...the ultimate 180...and maybe makes an appearance with WW in society as necessary.

Shock, there is nothing wrong with that choice - aa long as it is DG's choice. Like I said, it has been an option for generations. There are those who value lifestyle and comfort over having a 'soul mate'. Cold utilitarian reason. Maybe they are on to something...after all we are all here having bought into 'happily ever after'


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 901 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 1:36 PM, July 18th (Friday)

deceived guy

Put a pen VAR in the bottom of her pocketbook.

In a few days you will know everything you need to know.

There was a poster named "choppingonions" that nailed his wife to the wall.

He found out about 2-3 OM that he did not realize were in the picture of his wife's current EA with an overseas boss.

The pen VAR was the key.

And she was truly frightened about everything he knew. She could not lie her way out of any of the affairs.

He was a stay at home dad/ex attorney if I remember correctly.

HM

[This message edited by happyman64 at 1:40 PM, July 18th (Friday)]


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
Salt
Member
Member # 43726
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, July 18th (Friday)

Wow. A pen VAR is an excellent idea DG.


BS, 54 Divorced 2012
I read and walked for miles at night along the beach, writing bad blank verse and searching endlessly for someone wonderful who would step out of the darkness and change my life. It never crossed my mind that that person would be me.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jun 2014
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 2:06 PM, July 18th (Friday)

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:03 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
BlueBlueEyes
Member
Member # 43949
Default  Posted: 2:13 PM, July 18th (Friday)

DG
OK makes some good points. Just adjust the timeline to what you set for yourself. The point is you need to make decisions that work for you. Take her out of the equation. If she jumps on board sometime during your 180, certainly nothing lost by having a contingency plan. Edited because I obviously can't type on a cell phone :(

[This message edited by BlueBlueEyes at 2:13 PM, July 18th (Friday)]


BW - 49
WH - 50
Married 30 years
Beautiful Son, Daughter and 2 Grandsons.

OW - multiple, just found out about ALL of them, Husband coming out of years of fog due to multiple childhood and military events.

Hopeful but cautious


Posts: 194 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Texas
Shockleader
Member
Member # 36827
Default  Posted: 2:46 PM, July 18th (Friday)

At anytime she could file for D... Maybe not likely, but has a whole sort of sword of Damocles feel to me. Just thinking out loud...


D-Day spring 2012
Me BS 47
Xcheater 44
One DD 19
Married 23 years
Divorced 12/23/13 Fu*king A!

The cruel, the unkind, those without honor, feast on the tender heart...


Posts: 653 | Registered: Sep 2012
Areukiddingme
Member
Member # 41950
Default  Posted: 2:50 PM, July 18th (Friday)

I understand your need to have proof for you. For 3 months, I waited for an opportunity to get my hands on H work phone. I swear I couldn't breathe as I got it from the bathroom while he showered. I locked myself in the other bathroom, and once I got texts pulled up there it was staring me in the face. My stomach feels funny just writing this. I didn't read a lot of them (I could only take so many I love you) and I regret that. I wish I had had my wits about me to read more and forward the messages to my phone, but emotions took over. At that point, I was able to take the advice I had been reading about on SI. When someone won't give up their electronics after admitting to an affair or any type of inappropriate relationship, it doesn't have a thing to do with their privacy. I hope you will take more action as you get stronger.

Posts: 53 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Southeast
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 3:39 PM, July 18th (Friday)

Okay, you already know she had an affair, a PA and she has admitted that. Lets just say there is nothing at all going on anymore and her affair is completely over.

Lets look at this as D or R. What is your choice?

We all know what is supposed to occur for R. Has your wife done anything to promote honest R?

Has she owned her own shit as they say and taken complete responsibility for her affair. Has she read any of the books to even learn what the hell she really did to you. Does she understand boundaries. It is obvious she doesn't get it all because she still wont let you see her passwords and that is really cold and telling.

Has she ever told your WHY she had an affair?

You can continue to try and catch her, but if she really isnt having an affair, you could try and catch her forever.

Everyone says go with your gut, and that is usually true. But once your gut has been 100% accurate, it can fool you. Being lied to is no laughing matter, it can truly screw up someone's mind and health, including gut feelings.

Your wife admitted her affair, why is she still working in the same building as the OM. Why isnt she looking for another job, that is what usually happens to a WS as a consequence of their affairs.

Her biggest fear will be if I tell everyone she/we know.
That is very good for you to know. Save it for now, and use it when you need it, which could be soon.

Is there anyway possible, you can be at her work when she gets off and watch her once in a while. Can you surprise her at lunch and show up offering to go to lunch with her.

Right now, she has it too easy IF she really is having an affair at work.

Since she is always home on time, that leaves lunchtime as about the only time she could be having an affair. Start surprising her at work during lunch.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
Salt
Member
Member # 43726
Default  Posted: 3:51 PM, July 18th (Friday)

Well if not a pen VAR they might have something else that might work to put inside her purse. Perhaps if you talk to the store they might have some ideas as well.

She sounds pretty detached and calculating to me. Were it me DG no matter what I would be putting a lot of effort in finding a good attorney asap and retraining. Are you able to pull extra cash each time you go to the grocery store and set that aside for yourself?


BS, 54 Divorced 2012
I read and walked for miles at night along the beach, writing bad blank verse and searching endlessly for someone wonderful who would step out of the darkness and change my life. It never crossed my mind that that person would be me.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jun 2014
BlueBlueEyes
Member
Member # 43949
Default  Posted: 3:53 PM, July 18th (Friday)

DG,
I feel sick readying that you think any of us are laughing at you. Nothing is farther from the truth! If this was so easy, none of us would be here. I do agree that you have to decide what you really want the outcome to be. If it's to R, you need to start getting open communication from her. I love the lunch thing as my husband thought on the way home from work was a great time.... How would I know if he was a half hour/45 minutes late. Still flabbergasted that the COW thought that was enough time for her one a week. Keep talking. One thing women do is talk things to death. It helps us deal. After all you can only be hurt so long before it really starts to piss you off. Sorry..language. The men on here are giving you great advice too! They have been there done that and they understand from experience what does and doesn't work. The only thing I don't agree with is a secret tracking device. I think her actions really tell you what you need to know. If you need proof for a divorce, then I guess that works.


BW - 49
WH - 50
Married 30 years
Beautiful Son, Daughter and 2 Grandsons.

OW - multiple, just found out about ALL of them, Husband coming out of years of fog due to multiple childhood and military events.

Hopeful but cautious


Posts: 194 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Texas
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 4:34 PM, July 18th (Friday)

I can tell you what GPS will do, map out a pattern of location. If she is going to a certain restaurant or behind the Barnes and Nobles building 3 days a week for example, you have a predictable location to confront WS and their AP in the act. Take pics, video, what have you to catch them in the act. You have undeniable image proof. It saves you time from having to hire a PI, or even save the PI time and it cost you less for his/her time tracking the WS down.

But it is an option.

VARs tell far more detail, right from the horses mouth.

DG, is she using wifi at your home to connect the laptop/ipad to the internet? If so, is there a way you can procure a packet sniffer software and capture the data? Just a thought.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 653 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
kchonda
New Member
Member # 44156
Target  Posted: 4:41 PM, July 18th (Friday)

Im new to forum but seems like we all have one thing in common and that is immense pain., and it really seems as if men and women have definite different points an biased views. As far as I can tell from all the reading--there is an individual solution to all our problems and generalization of answers don t work. But it does seems to help to talk to someone and express that feeling. Again new to this and will be posting my story soon as I get a partial grip!KCH

Posts: 1 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Vero Beach, Fl
Razor
Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 4:42 PM, July 18th (Friday)

When I read your story and posts, and many others from SI, I feel like it's stories from hopeless prisoners, who barely exist in sad, dank, gray life sentences, no hope of parole, feeling they will never see outside the wall, and everyday is just another day making gravel and eat slop.

I dont agree.

The safety of our children and finances are real concerns. No one should diminish the choices of others. No one knows what is really going on in someone elses M. We all make choices that are best for US. and just because we dont agree with what they say we should not berate others for choosing what they do.

IMO its possible to be happy in a life where you remain M to a person who as it turns out is not who we thought they were when we married them. Its possible to stay in a M to a cheater. IF they are actually not cheating any more. and have a happy and fulfilled life.

This is a shit sandwich no matter which way you look at it.

We either D our cheating spouse and possibly loose our kids.. putting them in danger by having some stranger help raise them. AND possibly loose more than half of what we worked so hard to achieve. The benefit of this is that we are free to rebuild our life and find someone better.
OR
If our WS has stopped cheating we then stay in a M with someone we really dont trust. a person who as we now know them would definitely be our second choice. The benefit of this is that maybe we still LIKE the person who betrayed us and can learn to enjoy their company. At the same time we get to keep our kids and our financial security remains intact.

There is no right answer. Its a shit sandwich either way you go.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.

Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.
Friedrich Nietzsche


Posts: 3483 | Registered: Sep 2007
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 5:35 PM, July 18th (Friday)

I really don't understand some of the remarks.
I don't have a lawyer, but I'm looking.
I have about $300.
I have two children.
I have an injured right hand.
We're in debt and WW makes the paychecks.

What am I going to accomplish by ending it, tonight? I have no where to go, folks. The four of us will be miserable 24/7. If I do what I'm doing, I will be miserable for part of the time, and less each day that I can detach. Do you have kids?

Let;s say WW IS still having an affair, ending the M tonight isn't going to end that. So, I'll be in the exact same situation only my girls will devastated and I'll be scrambling to find any job I can get, which will leave my kids home alone all day.
Why in the world wouldn't I get some resources in order before I did this?

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 5:37 PM, July 18th (Friday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
GettingHappy
New Member
Member # 42129
Default  Posted: 5:55 PM, July 18th (Friday)

DG- I just want to tell you that I think you are doing great. You need to take the advice that works for you at this point in time. I am rooting for you!

Posts: 46 | Registered: Jan 2014
Tom67
Member
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 6:25 PM, July 18th (Friday)

Take your time hey what doesn't apply let it fly.

Posts: 316 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 7:11 PM, July 18th (Friday)

DG - Just keep doing what you're doing. Bide your time and do not give your wife any indication you are snooping.

You are not entirely sure she is still having an affair or a different one. So patience works in your favor and as you said, sooner or later she will screw up.

Don't confront her with the slightest evidence that she can lie out of and considering how she will react, what you do end up confronting her with has to be solid as a rock proof.

Since you are looking for a good lawyer and your hand is healing, time is on your side since your wife doesn't know what you are up to. As long as she is in the dark as to your plans, just plan carefully.

I really don't understand why your wife would continue an affair with a married guy, but who knows. You will have answers soon enough.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 8:56 PM, July 18th (Friday)

While I try to put a parachute together, I continue to monitor for any evidence, and continue 180.

This is one of the hardest things I've ever had to do.
I wish I could just walk. I'd do it in a heartbeat. I'm sick of this. Every aspect of my life is overshadowed by this.

I'm not trying to be a doormat. I just need to be patient, which is not easy in this situation.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 9:00 PM, July 18th (Friday)

Stay focused and relax. You have all the time in the world as long as you can keep an emotional grip. The same thing they tell us when we choose to R and are still not sure if we should divorce a remorseful spouse.

You are not a SA, you just have physical touch as your love language. You are in an emotional state and obviously need your love language to feel better.

Can you sew the VAR into her purse?


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 9:08 PM, July 18th (Friday)

I'm trying to put together the best possible outcome for me and my girls.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:02 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 9:15 PM, July 18th (Friday)

Hey DG. Just catching up on your thread again. Sounds like you are getting frustrated with the entire situation. Completely understandable. It's a giant shit sandwich and you are being forced to chew slowly.

Keep thinking of those girls. You know your WW best. You are continuing to move forward which is more than many do in your situation. Keep as calm as you can and keep on that 180.

Just wanted to give you some words of encouragement. This shit is brutal but you can do this.

yop


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2463 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 9:35 PM, July 18th (Friday)

Thanks for the encouragement. Really tough as everyone here knows.
Right now I only see D in my future, which sucks.
Just building a parachute.
Thanks again!


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
longsadstory1952
Member
Member # 29048
Default  Posted: 9:50 PM, July 18th (Friday)

Friend. If you are the sahh she gets to pay for your lawyer and support as you do the d. Act.

Posts: 414 | Registered: Jul 2010
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 9:57 PM, July 18th (Friday)

I haven't been told or seen that information.
If I can get a lawyer to put it in black and white, I'm there.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
longsadstory1952
Member
Member # 29048
Default  Posted: 10:05 PM, July 18th (Friday)

You can. It's the law. Act.

Posts: 414 | Registered: Jul 2010
Tom67
Member
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 10:17 PM, July 18th (Friday)

Hey D look up dadsrights.com Jeffrey Leving yes he's in Chicago make an appt or call him.
One question do you have access to a joint bank account?
You should half of the $$$ is yours.
Would this guy charge a little extra for the drive sure so what if he does you right.

Posts: 316 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 10:27 PM, July 18th (Friday)

He needs to hear it from a lawyer. He needs to be prudent in his planning. It's the smart thing to do.

DG, I did the same thing in my planning. You'll get through this fine, with or without her.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 653 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 10:31 PM, July 18th (Friday)

Deceived

You are doing ok. Everyone following knows the situation is tough for you. If you wife is having a ongoing affair now she will fuck up eventually. Just use the time wisely and do t get complacent because she offers sex to you.
The fact that you feel D is in store means that you are getting it how much easier this could have been if she cared enough to help you heal and not try to bully you into just living with whatever she wants to do.
I think some who have become a little impatient have done so because your pain and inability to control your emotions was making you sick. And you will not be a good parent physically incapacitated.
I still think she is up to no good but it is really strange that if her coming and going is so regular that it all seems to be happening 9-5. Most passionate affairs usually escalate to behavior like staying out late of being home with "girlfriends".
Wait for the VAR or something to tell something. Just do not get emotional and tell her about it in a weak moment.
Keep posting . And do your best to stay calm


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 10:33 PM, July 18th (Friday)

TOM, Whoa, thanks! I'll definitely give him a call!

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 10:35 PM, July 18th (Friday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 10:48 PM, July 18th (Friday)

Bad, that's exactly what I'm doing. I have No illusions of R at this point. The CAR is giving me clues. My WW explained to passengers where she parks every morning. Basement level underground parking. I believe the maintenance office is in the basement.
If I try to stake her out, I just need a sweet note to say I was going to put it on WW's windshield.

I will get out of this and she will regret this. And hopefully I'll get my girls for majority
(Or acceptable) amount of time.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 10:56 PM, July 18th (Friday)

WW is actually trash talking about my 12-yr old to a bunch of girls from work. What a scumbag.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:02 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Tom67
Member
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 11:00 PM, July 18th (Friday)

That is disturbing and sad.
A mother to do that is just
An affair is one thing but this is a whole other level.
SAVE IT usb drive whatever.
I'm just argh

Posts: 316 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 11:06 PM, July 18th (Friday)

Yeah. Disgusting. To say your WW has some serious character flaws is an understatement.


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2463 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 11:25 PM, July 18th (Friday)

I don't know what the legal implications are, but I should save all of these files. I have her yelling about how she never wanted kids to a friend of hers.

I don't remember if I am part owner of that car, in regards to the recordings.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Tom67
Member
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 11:32 PM, July 18th (Friday)

Usually you can't use those at court.
Down the road when you file get one more var and keep it on you in case she snaps and calls the cops with a false RO.
It is way too common at least the cop can hear it and arrest her on a false claim.
WTF if things get bad use this as your trump card.
This is war!

[This message edited by Tom67 at 11:33 PM, July 18th (Friday)]


Posts: 316 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
HobbesTheTiger
Member
Member # 41477
Default  Posted: 11:51 PM, July 18th (Friday)

When you talk to the lawyer, ask him about the possibility of subpoenaing those friends to talk about what whether she at any time made such comments about the kids. Maybe they'll be scared of lying on the stand and tell the truth. That way, you won't have to use the recordings (which I doubt you're legally eligible), but still be able to "use" them indirectly.


BxBf, 26
Lots of FOO&other issues, working it through therapy
Legal profession

Posts: 518 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Continental Europe
HobbesTheTiger
Member
Member # 41477
Default  Posted: 11:53 PM, July 18th (Friday)

Also, save copies in a safe place somewhere. If she ever starts badmouthing you to the kids...


BxBf, 26
Lots of FOO&other issues, working it through therapy
Legal profession

Posts: 518 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: Continental Europe
Tom67
Member
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 12:12 AM, July 19th (Saturday)

Your lawyer can subpoena the work emails if need be.
Does his wife know about the affair you say you saw his wife's fb page.
If she doesn't know and he lives close to where she and him work PM me and I could help.

Posts: 316 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 10:45 AM, July 19th (Saturday)

Who owns the cell phones? Could you tap that?

Is she trash talking the kids or is she just stating she is at her wits end. Many parents state their children are driving them crazy from time to time.

From what you relay, she really sounds like she is deep in a fog and wants her freedom. Why doesn't she just leave then? Many don't leave due to financial issues or children. She doesn't seem to have an issue with either one.

BTW: be sure to erase your internet history in case she gets your comp and sees what you have been up to.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, July 19th (Saturday)

WW tends to fabricate her reality to fit whatever she needs to accomplish at the time. She has trash talked other people to me, to the point that she is writing them off, then turns it off when she's over it. While I think this is common, she takes it to another level. I think her comments about my daughters go beyond frustration, but I agree that her comments to her two confidants, seem to point towards her wanting freedom and feeling trapped in her marriage.
The thing about that is, she lies. If she is frustrated, she'll say something extreme like that to the person she's talking to, to justify her actions and complaints, or just elicit empathy.

She practically begged me to switch places so she could go back to work, when we moved to the midwest. I reluctantly agreed. Inside of the first year she was already disgruntled at her job and told everyone that she was miserable but she HAD to do it because I was in a car accident and unable to go back to work. THat was a lie. I had a couple of potential jobs lined up before we moved out here. I was in a car accident, a couple of years prior, but I only took two weeks off from work. It never affected anything.
She is an habitual liar.
I honestly don't know why she is still married to me.
That's a tough thing to state out loud.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Shockleader
Member
Member # 36827
Default  Posted: 11:50 AM, July 19th (Saturday)

DG, maybe a bit outside of the box, but perhaps however remote there is a facimilie of a shelter/service for men? Infidelity is emotional rape, and in your circumstance some form of shelter may get you what you need, such as pro bono/reduced fee attorney?

I know you are a vet, and wonder if the VA could guide you toward legal help? Here is the link for VA services... You fucking earned the right by noble service to the country, see what they might do.

https://www.ebenefits.va.gov/ebenefits-portal/ebenefits.portal

Maybe contact your local job Vet rep, local/county vet rep to gain some help? We are going to get you out of this mess with dignity, and strength. No compromise friend, never!


D-Day spring 2012
Me BS 47
Xcheater 44
One DD 19
Married 23 years
Divorced 12/23/13 Fu*king A!

The cruel, the unkind, those without honor, feast on the tender heart...


Posts: 653 | Registered: Sep 2012
Salt
Member
Member # 43726
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, July 19th (Saturday)

What whiney little babies with their mid life crisis crap. They tear up so many lives, then run off to be "happy", leaving all responsibilities behind. Check in with them a few years down the road and they are unhappy....again. Self entitled, narcissistic. It takes a good 25-30 years for them to really get how much they fucked up and fucked other people lives, if they have a sliver of character to admit it to themselves.

DG you are going to have to put your life back together brick by brick. I know you already know this. But don't worry, mark my words, you will build it faster than you thought. You will get a good new job. Your relationship with your girls will be strong. You will be OK. You are going through the hardest part...so just keep going.

1. Keep looking for a good lawyer. Take extra cash everytime you go to the grocery store and set aside.
2. Get signed up for retraining now. There are lots of online classes. More than just Sql. Put it on a credit card. Your wife can pay for it.
3. Gather evidence. Detach detach detach.

[This message edited by Salt at 1:10 PM, July 19th (Saturday)]


BS, 54 Divorced 2012
I read and walked for miles at night along the beach, writing bad blank verse and searching endlessly for someone wonderful who would step out of the darkness and change my life. It never crossed my mind that that person would be me.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jun 2014
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, July 19th (Saturday)

What whiney little babies with their mid life crisis crap. They tear up so many lives, then run off to be "happy", leaving all responsibilities behind. Check in with them a few years down the road and they are unhappy....again. Self entitled, narcissistic. It takes a good 25-30 years for them to really get how much they fucked up and fucked other people lives, if they have a sliver of character to admit it to themselves.

Salt: so true. Sometimes it just makes my stomach turn and my blood boil that these WS are and think like that. So sad that we BS, have to deal with adults that act like toddlers with their tantrums and sense of entitlement. Sad thing is that thinking back on our relationships, half the time we enabled them and didn't even realize it.

No wonder why half of us are having/or had issues being estranged after month 6. How can we not be disgusted by our WS or resentful that we have another child to take care of.

[This message edited by hopefulmother at 2:15 PM, July 19th (Saturday)]


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
Freeme
Member
Member # 31946
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, July 19th (Saturday)

Just wanted to post and say that you seem to be doing great.

WW tends to fabricate her reality to fit whatever she needs to accomplish at the time. She has trash talked other people to me, to the point that she is writing them off, then turns it off when she's over it.

As an FYI this is not normal and I can understand why you are worried about getting a D from her. Once you confront make sure you ALWAYS have a VAR on you. While you might not be able to use the recordings in court I have heard of people on this forum using them with the police if the wife claims domestic violence.



Posts: 272 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From: Washington DC
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 4:17 PM, July 19th (Saturday)

I never would have thought of the fake abuse police call until folks on this forum suggested it.
Thanks!

First session with new MC today. Very good MC. She's been doing it for a long time. The cool thing about this is, I get to say things that I normally can't in every day conversation. WW had to say out loud that she had an affair for 3 months, then listen to me rehash the entire story of how i found out, along with the two days of TT until she finally fessed up. She was more pissed off than remorseful, but I'll take what I can get.

I did mention the D word in the course of the session, but she has no idea that I'm actually shopping for lawyers.

Shock, Salt, Free, and everyone else... I am once again on the path to feeling empowered. Last week, Sunday was my downfall. Going to work extra hard to stay strong tomorrow. I will do this, I will get through this, and so will my girls. Well, I am worried about my girls, but I know that staying with my lying, cheating, secretive WW is not a permanent option. If she had shown me her electronics on the day I asked to see them, there might have been a chance.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:01 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 4:53 PM, July 19th (Saturday)

Sounds like it went well and I imagine your wife having to hear you say the truth in front of a professional MC humbled her even if she only showed anger. Or knocked her off of her pedestal, feeling mightier than you.

If she had shown me her electronics on the day I asked to see them, there might have been a chance.
Did this come up today or anything about transparency.

Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 5:00 PM, July 19th (Saturday)

I had mentioned the electronics in the context of saying that I never had any proof that the affair ended, other than WW saying she did it. When she said she did it, she said she used her phone. After I saw that call wasnt on our phone bill, she swears she did it via her work phone. EVENTUALLY, we will get to this again in MC, I'm sure. I'll tell her that it's easy to solve, she can get the office phone bill for me. She'll make an excuse why she can't, of course.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 5:12 PM, July 19th (Saturday)

DG

You are doing great. Bide your time.

Take all you need to make your plans come out what will be best for you and your girls.


Your wife is immature. But worse than that? She is selfish.

Keep the recordings in a safe place. And when you think the time is right make your wife sit down and listen to herself berating her kids. But worse than that making a fool of herself sounding like an immature, selfish person.....

She needs to hear it.

It might just be what you need to free yourself from her and give her the freedom she so desperately seeks.

It might also show her just what a miserable person she is. Maybe she will do something about it instead of cheating, lying and abusing her family.

Stay tough. Keep being a great Dad.

HM

PS
Chopped/ingOnions hid the pen var in a seam of her leather bag. It was small enough that she never saw it. It was sensitive enough that it picked up all of her phone calls.


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
solus sto
Member
Member # 30989
Default  Posted: 5:21 PM, July 19th (Saturday)

It's good that you had one MC session, IMO--it may have given your WW some idea of the work necessary to R. Hopefully the MC conveyed the gravity of the situation and revealed some of what would be required, LONG-TERM, for you and your marriage to heal from her duplicity.

Now that you've had that trial appointment, I'd now completely table MC, because there is absolutely no value in MC with a remorseless spouse still engaged in an affair.

I'd tell WW, "Well, that was an interesting experience, and I hope you now have a more realistic idea of what it might take to work through some of these issues in MC. However, I won't be returning until you've ended your affair, identified your affair partner, sent an NC letter with me, provided access to your electronics---from which you will have deleted absolutely nothing from this date forward, and attended enough IC that you have improved coping tools before we embark on joint therapy. Because I'm not willing to endanger my emotional well-being by going out on a limb with a person who can't provide even the bare minimum required for reconciliation post-infidelity."

Truly, attending MC with a remorseless spouse still in an affair is akin to handing her a baseball bat and saying, "Please, hit me about the face and neck repeatedly," or offering her steel-toed boots to kick you in the nuts. It's emotional suicide.

You will not make marital progress, you will not reconcile, and the potential for real, lasting emotional harm to YOU is astronomical.

Stick with IC until you've got a spouse who's committed to R. By committed, I mean, one who's copped to her affair, identified her affair partners, gone NC, provided access to electronics, and so on.

180 in the meantime. 180, sans discussion of the future of your marriage. She has too much work to do for "future" to even be a consideration. That doesn't mean you can't cohabit, as grueling as that becomes with a remorseless cheater. It means that it's unrealistic to expect anything more than a roommate with a bad history---and by that, I mean a roommate who's shown a willingness to harm you.

You're not just throwing good money after bad at this point with MC, and putting your emotional well-being on the line.


BS-me, 52
WH (Trac-fone), 53, PD
2 kids-DD25, DS18
multiple d-days
DIVORCING
Alone, most strangely, I live on~Rupert Brooke

Posts: 9142 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: midwest
Shockleader
Member
Member # 36827
Default  Posted: 5:49 PM, July 19th (Saturday)

Just a forewarning DG, lets say for whatever reason you are staying with her as roommates, know the experience is, and will be PURE HELL... The kids will pick up on the vibe/tension even if you are as pleasant as a saint, and seeing her come and go with what you do know is no fun, and I hope gets you to the anger stage. Good luck.


D-Day spring 2012
Me BS 47
Xcheater 44
One DD 19
Married 23 years
Divorced 12/23/13 Fu*king A!

The cruel, the unkind, those without honor, feast on the tender heart...


Posts: 653 | Registered: Sep 2012
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 8:17 PM, July 19th (Saturday)

she swears she did it via her work phone
next MC, bring up the fact you would feel much better if you saw a NC end of affair letter and watch her send it.

A phone bill from work might not be possible.

When the subject of rebuilding trust comes up, hammer home the point of transparency. And when she brings up trust, tell her that the her affair destroyed all past trust and it now has to be built up again.

Saying this at MC gets you on the record of stating exactly at least one of your conditions.

The VAR conversations should be quite interesting next week.

I think your wife is slowly learning the world doesn't revolve around her anymore.

Has she read any books yet about what it takes to actually R.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 9:10 PM, July 19th (Saturday)

I don't see any hope of R.
I want it, but I can't live without transparency.
Looking for attorney for an idea of what i can expect. I need a job. There's a lot to do.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Tom67
Member
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 9:41 PM, July 19th (Saturday)

Take your time act stupid and happy and get your financial ducks in a row.

Posts: 316 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 11:09 PM, July 19th (Saturday)

Thats exactly the plan, Tom.
Just gotta make it through the tough spots. Tonight I had one. Getting through it though.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 7:41 AM, July 20th (Sunday)

You might get transparency, your wife could be playing tough guy until reality sinks in. Right now, it is hard to read her mind.

I like this advice:

Take your time act stupid and happy and get your financial ducks in a row
Dumb like a fox. Or like Colombo on TV. Just gather info and build your case.

Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 8:52 AM, July 20th (Sunday)

DG, the way you describe your WW it's clear she is quite the narcissist. No matter her choice in life, if it doesn't pan out the way she expects it's someone else's fault. She's already putting the cross hair of blame on your girls. Be prepared if you find out that in the end that she would rather be "right" than married. I know. I married one of those types.

Your doing great.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 653 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 12:36 PM, July 20th (Sunday)

While doing 180, I keep conversation to a minimum, I don't accept help from her (unless it's too obviously insane, like I can't open jars because of my hand right now), I'm avoiding sex, I don't initiate hello and goodbye "I love you", most of the time, etc, etc, etc...

I'm doing this to detach. Detaching helps lessen the pain while I get my resources and plans together. Look for a lawyer.

I've seen some interesting results from WW however, I'm obviously not acting like myself.

I'm trying to reach a point where I can do 180, but still act super confident, happy and content. I want her to feel as though I'm completely oblivious so, if she is still cheating, she'll be more likely to make a mistake.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 12:43 PM, July 20th (Sunday)

JDuff, you are 100% correct. She is not going for R to specifically be with me, she's doing it partly to save face. If I initiate D, she will accept it, rationalizing in her head that SHE tried, but I caved and went for the D because I don't want R.
Whenever she is asked if she wants to save our marriage, she never says yes. She says "I wouldn't be doing this if I didn't want to".
Never a simple yes.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 7:25 PM, July 20th (Sunday)

She says "I wouldn't be doing this if I didn't want to".

Gee, why doesn't she just say, "I really would rather be single."

So sorry.

Bring as much as possible up in MC. My MC sessions can be used in divorce court if I chose to use them.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
Salt
Member
Member # 43726
Default  Posted: 7:59 PM, July 20th (Sunday)

Whenever she is asked if she wants to save our marriage, she never says yes. She says "I wouldn't be doing this if I didn't want to".
Never a simple yes.

DG, I'm sorry. I know this hurts. It takes a lot of courage to walk this road you never asked for. But sometimes bad things happen to good people. Know that this isn't about you.


BS, 54 Divorced 2012
I read and walked for miles at night along the beach, writing bad blank verse and searching endlessly for someone wonderful who would step out of the darkness and change my life. It never crossed my mind that that person would be me.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jun 2014
Tom67
Member
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 9:00 PM, July 20th (Sunday)

I talked with WL talk with him over by there eh
MC is for lack of a better term mental masturbation at this point.

[This message edited by Tom67 at 9:03 PM, July 20th (Sunday)]


Posts: 316 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 10:55 PM, July 20th (Sunday)

I know that D is inevitable.
This is going to destroy my girls.
I started looking at apartments in my area so my girls could go to the same school and be with their friends. My choices are slums and places I won't be able to afford.
I wish I could win the lottery so I could just end this. This has been the most painful freaking time of my life.
I hate my WW for doing this to us.
Giving up my career eight years ago to allow my WW to go back to work, was the worst decision I've ever made.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 10:57 PM, July 20th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 11:05 PM, July 20th (Sunday)

DG

Calm down. The worst decision you could make is living for years more without your dignity or health, both of which are in jeopardy here. You are doing the right things .

Your kids will be ok because you are a great Dad . Kids come out of much worse situations and turn out fine. She will not get off scot free.

Concentrate on getting your resume together. This is so important because you are one job interview and offer away from greatly boosting your self esteem and ability to slog your way through this. I know it seems way out there but that is the goal. Strive for it.

Stay calm tonight. Keep listening to the VAR. It will probably be hard to catch her yourself because you would have to either get lucky or go there every day. You probably cannot do that

Try to stay strong


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 11:15 PM, July 20th (Sunday)

Thanks. No, this can't last. I have to end this. D is inevitable.

F! F! F!
Well, at least I have my choice between Xanax and pain killers for my hand, for some possible rest tonight.
I really need to get to sleep, but I can't stop the wheels from spinning. Active brain. Too active.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 11:18 PM, July 20th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
mhca
Member
Member # 41920
Default  Posted: 11:45 PM, July 20th (Sunday)

Well, at least I have my choice between Xanax and pain killers for my hand, for some possible rest tonight.

We won't tell if you take both.


Me: BH 47 STBXWW 47 (Lklb5)
M 19 years, DS 15, DS 11
DD#1: 12/24/2013
TT/Broke NC/False R
DD#2: 4/15/2014
TT 4/23, 4/24, 5/31, 7/19
Divorcing

Sample recovery plan, feedback welcome: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=539961


Posts: 902 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: California
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 12:33 AM, July 21st (Monday)

mhca...LOL
Going to bed next to WW.....Sounds like a plan!


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, July 21st (Monday)

Giving up my career eight years ago to allow my WW to go back to work, was the worst decision I've ever made.

It wasn't the worst decision. You grew. Your character grew. You sacrificed yourself for someone else's happiness. You did what a loving and supportive spouse would have done. You got many years of building a strong bond with your children. Not many fathers could boast that.

Unfortunately your spouse took advantage of it and took you for granted. Not everyone is like this. Please don't let her selfishness sour you on your own humanity and everyone elses. Not everyone is like her.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
jagged
Member
Member # 32317
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, July 21st (Monday)

DG,

Following this thread, and thinking you're doing incredibly well so far. Our stories are remarkably similar in many ways, and as you'll find is disturbingly common around here, your WW sounds like a carbon copy of my XWW.

What I want to say to you is this: divorce was hard on my two girls, yes. It did not, however, destroy them. No.

Like you, I would have done almost anything to have spared them from the experience...almost anything. But not if the cost was becoming the man I didn't want to be: a weak, compromising, mistrustful, hurt and broken hostage to the emotional cowardice and bankruptcy of the person my XWW had chosen to become.

My daughters survived...and eventually thrived. I'm certainly a better father today, undistracted by all the bullshit I was dealing with in trying to save a marriage single-handedly. I'm the man I want to be, the man I want them to see. My relationship with my daughters is the most important thing in my life, and it's now 100% pure, if not perfect.

People here told me this from the other side, and I couldn't believe them...until I lived it. I'm two years out, and my daughters are strong, confident girls who have no doubts that both their parents love them, and that our divorce was not their fault.

True - I wish they had never had to go through the sad part...I wish the house hadn't burned down, to borrow a particularly succinct metaphor from this thread. But that wasn't my choice, and we couldn't stay in a burning house, and so I did the best by them I could, and we're all okay. In some ways, important ways, we're even better.

Stay strong, brother. You're going to make it, and so will they.

[This message edited by jagged at 2:49 PM, July 21st (Monday)]


One foot in and one foot back
But it don't pay to live like that
So I cut the ties and I jumped the tracks
For never to return

Posts: 333 | Registered: May 2011 | From: TX
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 2:49 PM, July 21st (Monday)

Hopeful,
I agree. It's just a regret in hindsight. I thought that I'd never get over losing my WW if it came to that. The longer I am with her post-DDay, the more I know that I will find someone else who honest, compassionate, and capable of love, like myself.
I told WW, I had a book I'd like her to read. I didn't tell her the name of it (How to help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair). Her response was, "I'll read it, but don't expect me to do anything in it".
She thinks that this is over and we should be moving on because she apologized to me, is nicer around the house, and leaves later for work and leaves earlier after work.
After a month and a half from DDay, she is tired of this and has no clue what she has done to me.
Still looking for a lawyer and a job.....

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 2:50 PM, July 21st (Monday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Salt
Member
Member # 43726
Default  Posted: 3:05 PM, July 21st (Monday)

"I'll read it, but don't expect me to do anything in it".

Wow. What a coward. I hope you secure an attorney soon, DG. And I hope her consequences kick her ass.


BS, 54 Divorced 2012
I read and walked for miles at night along the beach, writing bad blank verse and searching endlessly for someone wonderful who would step out of the darkness and change my life. It never crossed my mind that that person would be me.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jun 2014
Shockleader
Member
Member # 36827
Default  Posted: 3:14 PM, July 21st (Monday)

Jesus DG, take some solace that they are truly all the same. My exPOS said upon a trip back to her hometown a week or two after Dday:

"Don't think this is some sort of pushing the reset button."

Also when I tried to have her read about how it feels to be a BS and what you as the cheater might do to help said:

"So it's all about you and what you need."

That's an exact quote BTW.

Honestly, bottom line, fuck them and and their sociopathic levels of non empathy. Starting to get a little anger brewing yet???


D-Day spring 2012
Me BS 47
Xcheater 44
One DD 19
Married 23 years
Divorced 12/23/13 Fu*king A!

The cruel, the unkind, those without honor, feast on the tender heart...


Posts: 653 | Registered: Sep 2012
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 3:47 PM, July 21st (Monday)

"I'll read it, but don't expect me to do anything in it".
She really has no clue at all what she has done and she has no clue that an affair really is a bad thing.

I wonder how she would feel about doing anything in that book if others were telling her what a real crime she has committed. Someone like her own mother or relatives.

From what I gather, you are the only one telling her what she did was wrong and bad and hurtful. So far, she has had it very easy.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 8:18 PM, July 21st (Monday)

WW doesn't talk to her parents. She used to call them during her ride home from work, which was late every night during A. Parents must have suspected something and started calling her a failure of a mother, among other things.
WW has had mommy issues all her life.
Now she blames me for her affair and her mother for everything else.
I can assure you, I have ALWAYS been very protective and supportive of (W)W and DDs, and always put them before myself.
WW seems to be trying to reinvent herself and recreate the past two years. She has completely shut out her parents. She now talks about herself as though she is a character from the TV show "Suits".
It's bizarre, she's literally making over her personality.
She used to be caring and compassionate. Ever since getting into the financial advisor world and becoming a rock star however, it's like watching a real life version of Jekyll and Hyde....

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 8:23 PM, July 21st (Monday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
gonnabe2016
Member
Member # 34823
Default  Posted: 8:21 PM, July 21st (Monday)

Ever since getting into the financial advisor world and becoming a rock star, it's like watching a real life version of Jekyll and Hyde....

Different industry, same result here
Egotism and the sycophants that fuel it really suck, huh?


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.


Posts: 8252 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest
Shockleader
Member
Member # 36827
Default  Posted: 9:02 PM, July 21st (Monday)

Ever since getting into the financial advisor world and becoming a rock star however, it's like watching a real life version of Jekyll and Hyde....

Yep, again another similarity in our situations. ExPOS climbed on many others backs to get where she is now... The entitlement transformation was simply unreal... I remember telling her once that you have become so used to having your ass kissed, never being told you are wrong by anyone at work, placed on a pedestal so high, that no matter what I say, I'm wrong and being critical. Sticks in my head like a tape playing.

Yes, she was very attractive, but also extremely good at her job, in a workplace of nearly 95% male. Musta been a real turn on to see a hot, voluptuous, tall women who was very competent, the director of a division of a huge multinational and "friendly"... I guess we were disposable dishrags, and I recall vividly her telling me "she outgrew me".


D-Day spring 2012
Me BS 47
Xcheater 44
One DD 19
Married 23 years
Divorced 12/23/13 Fu*king A!

The cruel, the unkind, those without honor, feast on the tender heart...


Posts: 653 | Registered: Sep 2012
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 10:24 PM, July 21st (Monday)

She is still seeing OM.
I want to wake her up and tell her to pack a change of clothes when she goes to work tomorrow because I don't want to see her face here.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:00 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
lovesobroken
Member
Member # 43588
Default  Posted: 10:31 PM, July 21st (Monday)

Any idea if its the same OM? Was it incriminating? Hang in there.

Posts: 364 | Registered: May 2014
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 10:33 PM, July 21st (Monday)

The weird thing is, I don't know if I want to react right away, right now.
I feel like I am in control, now that I know it;s still going on. I was planning on D, anyway. I was detaching and not ever planning on having sex with her again.

Do I wait and gather evidence? Or do I tell her to f-off?

I am concerned that she's been spoiling my DDs lately. They are very mature 11 and 12. I want to tell them, if things go south before she lies and says something about me. From what I've read, I shouldn;t say anything to them, but I'm not sure...

Tomorrow, I'm spoiling the hell out of my DDs, and I don;t care how much it costs.

I want to wake up WW and tell her I know... but I also want to wait until I get a lawyer....

Please don't slam me with the "you're a doormat" comments... I'm not planning on R, now. I just want to handle this in the best way possible.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 10:34 PM, July 21st (Monday)

lovesobroken... Russian dude, definitely


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 10:36 PM, July 21st (Monday)


This is actually a relief. I knew she was still seeing him, I just didn't have the proof I needed for myself.

I guess I get to join the multi-DDay club! Whoo-freaking-hoo!!!

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 8:59 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
ChangeMaker
Member
Member # 43899
Default  Posted: 10:40 PM, July 21st (Monday)

I feel like I am in control

Keep this in mind. Don't confront her, fuck it. She doesn't tell you what she knows. Just act.


"Everything works if you let it." - Travis W. Redfish

DDay - June 7, 2014
Me - 43
WW - 41
DD - 6 and 3
Pulling the Plug


Posts: 438 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: Ontario
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 10:57 PM, July 21st (Monday)

"I'll read it, but don't expect me to do anything in it".

Wow...she is so regretful for being caught and how this mess is an inconvenience. Not at all remorseful. I agree, she is still deep into an A. She is just doing what she needs to do to placate you. She doesn't want any of it, but she does give a shit about her image (a divorce/ a bad mother). If you D, then her carefree, fantasy, fun life is over. She will have to be a mother and take care of everything when you separate and she has visitation with the kids.

I was rooting for you two to work it out, but now? She isn't going to use the book? I will still pray for you.

BTW, do you think you really will miss your WW? Maybe, what you really are missing is what the M could have been like if she was a decent human being.

Sorry...just caught up to the other posts. So sorry about what you found out on the VAR, but I am glad you got your closure.

[This message edited by hopefulmother at 11:13 PM, July 21st (Monday)]


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 11:01 PM, July 21st (Monday)

His office is in the basement. He is talking to her while walking to car. I have no doubt she is still with him.

She of course, said she had broken it off and there is no more contact. And there he is, walking her to her car, most likely after a morning tryst.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 8:59 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 11:19 PM, July 21st (Monday)

No I didn't...I have a habit of posting while thoughts are in my head and I am using quotes. I did correct my post after I read the next page, but I saw that you already replied.

Again so sorry. But, I am happy that you have your answers and closure. You are a wonderful father and a man of character. You will find another woman that will cherish you. Know any on the PTA?

What ever you do...keep your character and don't trash talk her with the kids. (not that you seem the type, but pain and anger give us fuel to do stupid things). Your children will choose their own beliefs. Bring it up in IC or MC on how to tell them if you can. Before outing your wife.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 11:24 PM, July 21st (Monday)

Thanks, HopEfulMother..
I wouldn;t trash talk her, but I had considered just telling them straight up, that she cheated on me. My kids often remarked that she changed, this year. I can tell them, that is why. The only reason why I want to tell them at all, is I don;t trust WW. I could totally see her trash talk about me. She has now lied to everyone she knows.
UGH!

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 8:58 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 11:29 PM, July 21st (Monday)

I want to confront her tonight. Not violently or anything like that. I have never addressed her in an angry tone. I want to tell her not to come home tomorrow night, just to see what she says. She'll probably say, "I pay the mortgage, f-off", but I still want to confront her.
This weekend, I told her that I was feeling a round of extra pain and I was still suspicious that she was seeing him, and she became livid and very defensive. I think part of my wanting to confront her tonight (waking her up) is in response to the things she said to me, this weekend.

I think I can wait until I get a lawyer, but I'm not sure, to tell you the truth.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 8:58 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 11:32 PM, July 21st (Monday)

Deceived Guy

Slow down. Yes you did catch her but you heard noise that you think was kissing. You are probably right.
However, do not confront her yet . You have to get a lawyer before you do that. I am not a lawyer but maybe some that are on here can tell you if you file and offer mediation maybe you can save lawyer expense.
I still find it hard to believe that a financial services business executive would be fucking a guy in the basement office of an office building and not be trying to spend more time with him but I guess that is what she did before.
I do not know how you could get to her office in the am with the kids to try to catch her without her seeing you leave.
There has just got to be some sort of legal aid available somewhere . Criminals get it.
Do not expose the VAR yet until someone here gives you legal advice. I know Red Sox and Scheudenfreide were lawyers.

Right now all you have is no contact violation which you already knew. You have to be ready when you confront. She will deny and just be more careful


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 11:36 PM, July 21st (Monday)

You have held it in this far. Sit on it. In hindsight, I wish I hadn't confronted my FWH right away. I replayed many scenarios about confronting them both at work and humiliating them both.

Though for you, you are sure of D. I would wait till you get a lawyer and start squirreling away money. Don't worry about your children. If she trash talks you...they are old enough to see the lies and make their own opinions. It would actually do her more harm to trash talk you. You are their caregiver and they will be loyal to you. They already know Mom has changed and they don't like it.

[This message edited by hopefulmother at 11:41 PM, July 21st (Monday)]


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
Tom67
Member
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 11:40 PM, July 21st (Monday)

Does the guys wife know?
If not let her know after you have your sh!t together financially.

Posts: 316 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 11:46 PM, July 21st (Monday)

I have the exact time they met though. That counts for something.
Finding a lawyer is taking forever and I soooo want to tell her now because she adamantly denied still being in contact with him this weekend, when I didn't actually know. Now that I now, I soooo want to tell her!
If I hadn't promised my DDs a special trip tomorrow, I would drive there, tomorrow. My excuse for leaving before she leaves for work, is the fact that I have to get physical therapy for my hand, about a half an hour away. I could just say I'm going there. She has a crazy schedule for the rest of the week though, so it'll be hit or miss. I haven;t established a pattern, yet, either.
I'm sure she went to her car to pick up a couple of plants she brought to work. He probably walked her there after getting some morning sex.
His office is in the basement and she parks in the basement section of the underground parking.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 8:57 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Salt
Member
Member # 43726
Default  Posted: 11:53 PM, July 21st (Monday)

DG,
Listen hon, remember I told you that your whole perspective would change as soon as you heard anything on the VAR?

Now you must be smart, smart for yourself and your girls.

Don't confront. Don't reveal anything right now. I know it's hard but remember you are in this for the ENDGAME. That's you and the girls.

What she is doing is something that could potentially get her fired. That means you might just have something very valuable here: LEVERAGE. However it is not legal to record someone without their knowledge, without their consent.

You need an attorney asap. Because an attorney can advise you properly.

So for now, remember to breathe. Yes you are in control and the more you stay in control, not revealing what you know, the stronger your position is going to be. Keep gathering your evidence, get to an attorney.

Once you have retained one then put your strategy into action. And that may just include having her pack her bags and leave the home. You want to take advice from an attorney first.

As regards to telling the girls, say nothing now. But when the times comes tell them the truth, the simple age appropriate facts, when they ask. Don't badmouth their mother, don't fill in the details, just the basic simple facts. They will need to know who to trust. Because if you think you can hide information and protect them, they are much smarter than you think. They will smell lies a mile away. Treat them how you would want to be treated. The truth without trashing their mother.


BS, 54 Divorced 2012
I read and walked for miles at night along the beach, writing bad blank verse and searching endlessly for someone wonderful who would step out of the darkness and change my life. It never crossed my mind that that person would be me.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jun 2014
Uhtred
Member
Member # 40392
Default  Posted: 12:28 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

This really sucks man I hate to hear the R isn't in your future but am happy that you will rid yourself of someone like that.You're way too good for that man.

Take everyone's advice and do not tell her yet. I'd get hours of conversation built up. Establish a patter my man. Get someone you know to be in that basement and get some photographs of them together. That is legal and could be used to establish some proof if things get nasty. Get your ducks in a row and squirrel hole the shit out of some money. If it were me I'd definitely get the last laugh buddy. After all that's all you can do at this point is laugh because crying isn't going to get you anywhere.

Find a good attorney and go for spousal support and go for your kids all the way. Make her pay you and pay child support. I'm not sure what I'd do about telling the kids because mine are really too young to understand. Only you know the maturity they possess. I'd just steer clear of details and give the scenario. If I were to tell mine the story I'd make sure they knew they were loved by both of you very much. Even if that's not the truth on your wife's part. I'd let them know that you were leaving and would like them to live with you because you can provide them the love and support they need and that they could see there mother any time they chose too.

I'm not really qualified to give the best advice possible because my experience and yours are so different but it's what I'd do. Hang tough buddy and laughing about this shit will make it so much easier because now it's like a game and I'd feel good about myself outsmarting her. She's the dumb one but obviously things you're the gullible fool and that's where the last laugh comes in.


Me: BH 32years old DDay 4-29-13
Her: WW 33 years old
“Yet each man kills the thing he loves
By each let this be heard
Some do it with a bitter look
Some with a flattering word
The coward does it with a kiss
The brave man with a sword”

Posts: 633 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Houston, Texas
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 1:19 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

So far, finding an attorney has been the toughest part of this. It's all random!


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 1:50 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)


[This message edited by deceivedguy at 8:57 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Salt
Member
Member # 43726
Default  Posted: 2:35 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

exactly DG

Look, it's not going to benefit you to confront her without a plan.

What is your intention? Do you want to file? First you must decide what you want to do.

Were it me DG this is what I would do

1. Retain an attorney. Get a strategy together. #1 priority.
2. File
3. When you hand her the papers tell her you know she is continuing to lie and cheat. Don't tell her how you know. Just say you know and you are done. Let her deny. You say you know and you have filed.
4. Tell her to pack her bags and leave.

She cannot force you to reveal the VAR, DG. Just keep repeating that you know and it's none of her business how you know.

You have more power than you think. Take your power back.

[This message edited by Salt at 2:40 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)]


BS, 54 Divorced 2012
I read and walked for miles at night along the beach, writing bad blank verse and searching endlessly for someone wonderful who would step out of the darkness and change my life. It never crossed my mind that that person would be me.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jun 2014
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 2:41 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

She gave me a lecture about how she wasn't still seeing him, etc etc etc... it got ugly and she was in my face about it. Now I want to say, remember this weekend?

This is going to be hard to hold in.... I'm going to work hard to avoid the temptation...

Thank goodness for the support here. thank you salt and everyone! especially at this hour of the morning. I am freaking out here!

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 8:55 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 2:43 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

oh and yes, the plan is definitely to file.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Salt
Member
Member # 43726
Default  Posted: 2:47 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

Yeah. Holding it back is tough. Really tough.

You need to get to an attorney. Badhurt is right. Get an appt with the consult you had tomorrow and get it started. You can keep looking for another attorney. You aren't going to keep this in for long which is why you need legal advice now.

Remember the phrase, eyes on the prize? That prize is your life with your girls.

And stop engaging with her.

Stop. Engaging. With. Her. Now.

[This message edited by Salt at 2:52 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)]


BS, 54 Divorced 2012
I read and walked for miles at night along the beach, writing bad blank verse and searching endlessly for someone wonderful who would step out of the darkness and change my life. It never crossed my mind that that person would be me.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jun 2014
Dyokemm
Member
Member # 40254
Default  Posted: 4:39 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

Well the only possible reason I can see for delaying the confrontation would be to collect more evidence.

But that is the one thing you truly don't need here.

She is still in contact with him and as far as you're concerned that means the A (in all its forms)is still on.

There is really no need to get a lawyer first....24 hours is not going to make a bit of difference in the legal aspects of D.

I think you should shake her awake and tell her she needs to not come home after work tomorrow....tell her to go stay with POS.

Inform her you know she had contact with him and the exact time....DO NOT tell her about the VAR.

Let her think you had a PI or friend watch her.

Waking her up and hitting her with the news you are filing D and want her out ASAP is actually a perfect plan.

You will catch her unprepared and at her most vulnerable.

Follow up ASAP with the D papers from your lawyer, 24 hours should be more than enough time to get this set up.

Also tomorrow first thing, expose the continuation of the A to everyone and the news you will be divorcing her immediately.

Wake her up and send her reeling and then keep the hits coming over the next few days to keep her scrambling.

Make sure to expose POS fully as well...expose to his work and to his BW.


Posts: 58 | Registered: Aug 2013
Freeme
Member
Member # 31946
Default  Posted: 7:27 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

Make sure to have a VAR on you when you confront. Also, have your ducks in a row to inform the other spouse shortly after (her email address/phone number) probably don't want to tell the OPS about the Recorder. Do you have evidence from DD1?

Also, could she get fired for this relationship if work found out? Might worry about CS if you inform work. If that's not giving her lot's of fires to put out might help.

Personally, I'd wait until I had all my ducks in a row before I confronted because she sounds like she could go nuts with lies and make it unbearable to live together. I'd want to work on getting exclusives use of the house ASAP.

Of course that's easy for me to say ... not sure if I'd be able to do it.


Posts: 272 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From: Washington DC
confused615
Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 7:34 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

I don't think you should bother to confront her.

I think you should have her served with divorce papers.

When she comes running, asking why, tell her you know she is still with OM. So what if she denies it? YOU know it's true. She can deny it six ways to Sunday, you know it's true.

She is cheating. She has no respect for you or the kids. She is a liar. She is manipulative, cruel, and abusive.

If you want to save the marriage? File. If you want it over, but can't right now because of your hand, then get your ducks in a row, start sending out resumes, detach, and then file once your hand is healed.

Either way...file. Anything less will result in the exact same behavior from her.


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 8081 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 7:36 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

DG

Keep using the var.

Do not confront her. Use this time to find a job and an attorney.

Continue gathering evidence.

Sooner or later you will hear them on the var making plans to meet and hookup.

That will be your chance to get the evidence you need to catch them together. Maybe a friend can get a picture or two.

Use that evidence to get your best deal for a divorce.

Be silent. Make a plan. Stay in control of this situation and stop fighting with a selfish liar.

HM


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 7:45 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

In Illinois, the judges never use the adultery grounds from what I've been told by a lawyer and a PI. The only thing I could possibly gain from it is WW giving in a little, but I don't see that happening.
If I file for divorce with one lawyer, I suppose I could find another one to handle the case, right? It's true that living here is going to be hell as soon as I drop that into her lap.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 8:54 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
atreides
Member
Member # 44180
Default  Posted: 7:56 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

In my state, you can certainly change lawyers. Good move in not confronting her... there will be a time and place after the divorce where you can in your own way, let her know she kept lying to you... that is if it is still worth it to you.

cheers


Posts: 154 | Registered: Jul 2014
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 8:04 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

No, you are not being a doormat, you are doing the right thing, gathering info. And this is the worst part. You heard something but not enough to the point she couldnt lie out of it.

I have been there and the WS can lie out of almost anything you have recorded. You are smart enough to figure out what you heard, but confronting her with this is just going to cause you to lose all of your leverage with the VAR.

You will get enough soon. Be patient. And calm. You are in control, but it is never a good feeling to watch as you're being lied to.

If all they are doing is kissing after work, soon enough they will have to meet for a longer time where you could hear more than you want to. But you will have the proof...once again.

When you get the chance to be at her parking spot, make sure you have your camera ready.

When they had sex before, did she ever tell you where they had sex. Most likely that is where they will meet again.

I wonder if her building has security cameras...how embarrassing.

Have you looked on Avvo.com and Martindale.com for a lawyer.

Go to MensRights.com and see if you can find information for your area.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 8:38 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

Deceived Guy

OK. You get the picture by now.You CANNOT get emotional and reveal the VAR. However, you CAN confront her and bluff her.

If there are ANY people you know that could have been in that garage you can tell her you know she is talking to him every morning, that someone has told you. Or you can say you say her yourself. The important thing is to get her MAD and stupid. When people get mad, they blurt out stupid things.

Craig said in last post that they would eventually plan to get together to have sex. That seems logical except if she is coming home regular and not going out late, she is either sneaking off with him at lunch time or during day, or banging him in the office before work. i find it hard to believe they would be doing it in the car in a public parking garage. i would also think since sh has no idea that there is VAR in car that she would be talking to him in the car. if this is an affair, it is strange, They have no conversation, don't make excuses not to be home, and just meet and fuck in his office. Crazy????

If you have not been able to find out the Russians name or contact information by now, it is unlikely that you will get that done so i would not expend energy and time on that right now. This could not go on if your wife was not a willing participant. SHE IS THE PROBlEM!!!

You major efforts are to find an attorney. You do not have a multi million dollar estate, condos all over the place, or anything other than two girls that would make this to where you absolutely need an attorney that would handle legal matters for a billionaire.

She will probably not want the kids from the recordings you have heard, so there will be no legal battl;e there.

You have got to get away from this woman or you will not be able to concentrate on getting a job or anything else.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 8:42 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

Definitely don't tell her about the VAR, there are questions about legality for one thing. Why don't you tell her you have an informant [which is actually the VAR] in the workplace? She was discovered canoodling with the OM by your informant. Now she will wonder if her very actions are being observed by a 'spy'.

You can look at your misery DG and rack your brains all day for a way out that doesn't involve divorce, but frankly I don't see it. She has no love or respect for you; she is deep in an affair and has no intention of ending it; and you can't talk this arrogant WW into trying to save the marriage. If you discontinue all sex and affection she doesn't give a hoot; the OM is giving her that.

As you said, she has let this job go to her head and no longer cares for her family. Maybe you could contact HR at her workplace and tell them about the affair, which is being conducted during the workday, which is obviously against company policy. Maybe her employers would investigate these early morning fuck fests; possibly catch them red-handed.

In the very unlikely event your wife would consider reconciliation, your key demand should be ending her job right now in order to get her away from the OM. The chances of her agreeing to that are absolute zero, so divorce it must be.


Posts: 1864 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Tom67
Member
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 8:48 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

You said you have seen his wife's facebook page right?
Try contacting her that way so at least she can get tested for STDs.
If his family is around my area I can let her know if you want.
More than one way to skin a cat.

Posts: 316 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 9:00 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

DG

Tom made good suggestion. There is a thread on here where a woman got an anonymous message that her husband was having an affair.

OK Now's advice about her HR Department I would not do now. The last thing you want to do now is get her fired so that she cannot pay alimony or child support.

I am guessing you have searched her car numerous times when checking VAR to see if she had a change of clothes or lingerie in car. maybe when she was dressing like slut she changed before going upstairs to office. I would keep searching everywhere you have access to for condoms or anything that she should not have out of house.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 9:14 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

DG, time is on your side right now. Just keep that in mind. Just as I figured, when you backed off the pressure she resumed her deviant behavior. Now you have your proof. Keep getting more proof, not just for you but for the OM's wife. You are now building your own fantasy nuke and you need some more reality plutonium.

As others have mentioned, you want to catch her completely off guard. Your exposure must come in waves and be timed to keep your WW so discombobulated that she can't put out the fires fast enough. She will feel just a disheveled like you felt on your first Dday. Remember that day? How your world came crashing down and everything unraveled. You felt like you had no control, stuck in a swirling whirlpool reaching out for anything to pull you out. Your WW is going to feel like that if you execute this well. She's going to agree to your terms regarding custody and property just to stop the pain. You want to be ready for that moment when she bends to your terms.


Right now, write down the terms on paper/email for what YOU want out of this D (custody, property, staying in the home while she moves out) to give to your lawyer to draw up as a mediation agreement. Go find that lawyer soon.

Keep on the 180 and act happy. Keep looking for that job and get studied up on added skills.

Keep collecting evidence on the VAR and store copies in a safe place for the OM's wife. Yes, you cannot legally use it in court but you can definitely let his wife hear it.

Now that you verified where they are screwing around, you should consider hiring a PI to park in the garage and take pictures of them making out. Again, for the OM's wife and also so you submit this to your WW as undeniable proof. If you know anyone at her work who is willing to help you get those pictures then that's golden. Has she complained about certain people at work? Contact them AFTER you get all your ducks in a row and see if they are willing to help you be the "eyes and ears" at work.

Get your personal accounts ready for electronic transfers from your joint accounts. Do a couple of test transactions of $.25 just to make sure your personal account can receive the funds. You are going to execute a funds transfer (within your legal rights) right before her butt is served.

Prepare a packet with a statement as much evidence (pictures, your journal, info on OM, etc.) as you can to submit to her sister/friends/family. Make multiple copies. Send a copy to the OM's employer. I'm sure they would like to know what the OM has been doing on company time.

Prepare an age appropriate statement for your daughters.

Have the process server deliver the petition to her work. When she gets served, you'll either get a panicked call or a text from her. Send one text saying something to the effect of "caught" with an attached picture of her and OM making out, then go dark on her and don't respond for the rest of the day. If you know the date she will be served, make sure to contact the OM's wife on that same day or right before and give her the heads up on the A as well as evidence. See if she will meet with you and you can let her listen in on the VAR for further proof. See if she will keep quite until your WW is served. Also send the evidence packet to her sister and friends. Ask them not to say anything until your WW calls them. Get back home and start packing your WW's clothes and personal items in some trash bags and have them by the front door.

On nuke day, your WW is going to panic and talk to the OM to get their "story" straight. Hopefully, by that time the OM's wife kicked his ass to the curb and thrown your WW under the bus. She'll then call her sister and her friend with her version of the story. Hopefully, by then they have read your evidence packet already and will listen to your WW lie out her ass about you and they can call her shit out. Your WW is going to run out of places to hide and seek support. You'll be the only one she can talk to and try to bargain with. When she text you or calls you and asks "can we talk?" then you have her by the throat.

When she comes home that's when you whip out the mediation agreement. Have her sign it and tell her you MAY give her another chance and consider cancelling the D process but that you won't talk about it until she signs that agreement. Hopefully she'll be so desperate to gain some control in the situation that she will. As soon as she does, take a picture of it on your phone and email it to yourself, then store the original in a safe place, THEN talk to her.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 653 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
spond
Member
Member # 41686
Default  Posted: 9:39 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

PM Sent...

Also... Great Advice here by many. Don't show your hand yet. Keep gathering!!!

Much luck!!


BH(me) | fWW
2 Kids - Married 2002
D-Day TT & EA | D-Day #2 PA
Reconciling

Posts: 427 | Registered: Dec 2013
OK now
Member
Member # 14459
Default  Posted: 9:44 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

The last thing you want to do now is get her fired so that she cannot pay alimony or child support.

Good point Badhurt, but if she is fired it gets her away from OM and back to reality; now she isn't Queen important manager anymore, her job and glory are gone and maybe that will prompt her to reassess the marriage.

If you could get her fired that would be marvelous; bring her way down and strip her of her arrogance, vanity and confidence. Now thats possibly a way to get your marriage back without the misery and expense of divorce. Get the cheater fired and maybe she will be at your mercy for a change. Sure there will be initial financial hardship, but get her a replacement job involving no prestige and no chance of getting another grossly inflated ego.


Posts: 1864 | Registered: May 2007 | From: NC
Shockleader
Member
Member # 36827
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

Even if fired and onward with D, the court will impute her for support/alimony/potential BS legal fees... How about that hanging over your head!


D-Day spring 2012
Me BS 47
Xcheater 44
One DD 19
Married 23 years
Divorced 12/23/13 Fu*king A!

The cruel, the unkind, those without honor, feast on the tender heart...


Posts: 653 | Registered: Sep 2012
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

I'm reading all of these. I havent said anything yet. Lawyer supposed to call me back today.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Salt
Member
Member # 43726
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

DG,
Once you file and confront, you can more easily ask for references locally with people you know. The more attorneys you see she cannot use, conflict of interest.


BS, 54 Divorced 2012
I read and walked for miles at night along the beach, writing bad blank verse and searching endlessly for someone wonderful who would step out of the darkness and change my life. It never crossed my mind that that person would be me.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jun 2014
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 11:07 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

Glad to hear you made it through the night. Can you rent a car and stake her out? Get someone to babysit while you go to "therapy"?

Damn, I wish I lived nearby to stake her out myself.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

BTW: get some sleeping pills to use at night. If you don't get enough sleep you are going to get sloppy and let something slip.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
swizzlestick03
Member
Member # 30102
Default  Posted: 1:08 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

I'll be in Chicago next week and the week after for business. I'm the best PI I know...

Sit tight. You have hand now, without a doubt. No need to waste it. You have nothing to lose by keeping your lip zipped and getting ALL of your ducks in a row. Find the right attorney. Start thinking about what you want your future to look like. Little by little, start gaining control of the things you can. Scope out housing options -- there are probably a lot more than you thought available for you. From a job perspective - take your time. An attorney may tell you not to do anything at this point, since you've been a SAHD.

Like you said--spoil your girls tomorrow. Go have fun, take them for pedicures, fun hair and to Justice just for some fun clothes.

Lastly, take care of you. Get a massage. Clear your head the best you can. Just remember - you have hand now.


Me: BW-33
Him: WS-32
D-Day #1: 16 August 2010
D-Day #2: 16 January 2011
One smallish kiddo.

Posts: 572 | Registered: Nov 2010
yearsofpain25
Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 2:33 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

You continue to impress me DG. Very good for not confronting. Gather all of the evidence that you have. JDuff had a great post and I agree. Burn down this fucking affair in every direction at the same time. MAKE IT BIBLICAL!!!

Keep posting and we'll all keep writing you through it. You have a village behind you!!

Keep going DG

yop


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2463 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 7:11 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

I have a lawyer, now I just have to raise $3500 for his retainer.
I STILL have not told WW that I know she is still seeing OM. This is KILLING me!

Funny story.....first attorney I called (not in our town, but 30-40 min away, said there was a conflict of interest!!!!
I told WW that one of my friends told me to check with local lawyers to see if she was looking for one. She admitted to contacting them, back when we had a fight because I was going to contact OM. She told me that he would kill me. I told her that I applied for a firearms licence in case I'm in danger. I suspect she was trying to portray me as dangerous.

I really really want to tell her I know. Man, this is as bad as DDay #1!


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 7:53 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

HopefulMother,
they will go further underground, I'm sure. I was thinking of having a greeting card for an excuse, and say I was going to put it on her windshield, if she saw me (while she wasn't with OM).
Not sure if I can do it yet. Would love to have a picture of them together!

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 8:51 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Lark
Member
Member # 43773
Default  Posted: 8:06 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

A greeting card she'd likely see through unless you normally drop off that stuff at her work, at her car. I'd just go covertly or for an item you need but forgot in her car (assuming you are ever in it)


“It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities.” - Dumbledore

Posts: 1062 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: California
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 8:10 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

DG

The problem is even if you catch them standing together I am not sure if that means anything. You would have to catch them doing something sexual and you are right, it might even be hard to get in.

I honestly am out of ideas other than what you are doing other that just confronting her and getting her kissed enough to say something she should not. It worked for another guy recently.

I just cannot understand how a lot of ladies who never are employed because of children wind up getting divorced, getting fair settlements, and get on with their lives. There has to be some way to get you out of this. You can't even snoop by following her like you could if your kids were in school or old enough to be by themselves.
You know she is cheating, you know you want out of this relationship, so what are you going to do with the proof you may or may not get in months .
I guess the VAR is your best bet but if she was having phone conversations with him n the car you should have heard it by now.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 8:25 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

Badhurt,
I don't actually need proof. It;s all a formality. Meeting with my new lawyer in two days. The proof is to stop WW from lying


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 8:30 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

back when we had a fight because I was going to contact OM. She told me that he would kill me.
Do you believe your wife did contact the lawyer just because you and her had a fight about contacting the OM wife?

And, the fact that your WW now tells you this OM threatened to kill you is very interesting, and raises the stakes considerably higher.

Actually, this threat that the OM will kill you should not be taken lightly. You have leverage to do all kinds of things. File a restraining order against him, call the cops etc.

See what others think about this.

Stay the course, this could get uglier. Your wife is in a way sticking up for this OM now and seeing someone most likely who has threatened to kill you.

If this is all true, she apparently doesnt give a damn about her family at all. Should be interesting when everyone finds out about this.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
homewrecked2011
Member
Member # 34678
Default  Posted: 8:42 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

Your atty will give you the name of a PI to use who is reliable. The one my friend used was $500.00 He parked WAY away from them in a Walmart parking lot with a camera the paparazzi use. One kiss was all that was needed to prove she was a LIAR.

I'm not sure it matters in your state for a D, but you'll have your professional picture for the OBS and yourself. She's gonna lie about why she kissed him because that will be her defenses going up.

BUT you are going to hand her the D papers and out she goes. MAYBE she will wake up.

I know it's so hard to not say, "I got something on you",, but don't do it yet!!!

See an atty -- you want your kids, and you want the final say in their wellbeing for the rest of their lives. THIS IS THE ONLY GOAL FOR NOW. PLZ make sure with a free consult that this is what you will get.

[This message edited by homewrecked2011 at 8:43 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)]


Keep Calm and Happy On!

me BS 52
him - 46
married 15 years DIVORCED 10 31 12
children - ds15 ds12
d-day 12-19-11
I gave a 24hour ultimatum then went to attorney next day
Divorce filed


Posts: 2382 | Registered: Jan 2012
Dyokemm
Member
Member # 40254
Default  Posted: 9:03 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

Well the majority of posters here are against confronting immediately.

I see their points, even if I do not happen to agree.

You need no more proof...so a PI or some convoluted plan to surprise her in the garage are unnecessary.

A short delay til paperwork is officially filed means nothing in a D proceeding, so the fact you don't have your lawyer 'locked' up yet is essentially meaningless since you will have that done within a couple of days.

I guess I favor hitting her with this all out of the blue (without revealing the VAR...just say you had a friend or PI watch her)comes from the leadership and combat training I went through at the Naval Academy.

I remember one Marine instructor teaching us to:

1) Strike when unexpected

2) Hit hard, hit fast, hit often...keep the enemy off balance.

3) An unbalanced enemy is already half-way defeated because they are constantly scrambling to react to your actions rather than initiating plans to ensure your defeat.

In that vein, I still recommend you surprise confront her immediately about the continuing A...give date, place, and her screwing around but DO NOT reveal VAR...play it off as a spy of some sort.

Tell her your are filing D immediately.

Tell her to move out.

Expose the continuing of the A to both your families and all friends along with the fact you are filing for D.

Expose to her work.

Expose to POS's BW and his work.

She will be scrambling to react to your actions from the get go.

Continue 180 and only discuss D proceedings and child necessities.

As a SAHD, you are at an advantage for custody considerations.

She will be paying YOU spousal and child support, so you will have time to find a worthwhile job in your field.

I know others disagree, but I still think your best move here is ti go nuclear.

Bring Fantsyland crashing down around her ASAP.


Posts: 58 | Registered: Aug 2013
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 9:21 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

I have one thing to add. Your county court records are probably on computer which is accessible most places by the public.

Please try to check to see if she has filed for,divorce already. Since she's seen a lawyer, that is indeed possible.

You may have to register and create a password with the county court. Maybe not. But checking is usually done by name., and if there is a case filed, it will show up. And you can get access to what's been filed.

The nice thing about computerized records,is you can do it from home.


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
Salt
Member
Member # 43726
Default  Posted: 10:06 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

OK yes you are on notice she has seen a lawyer. She has already been advised of her rights and I suspect already has a plan in her mind depending on what you decide to do. I think the reason she gave you for why she went to one is another lie. At this point, when they open their mouths they are lying. She may have already filed for divorce and not notified you. It think it is wise to check public records if you can.

I am not in favor of confronting until you have had a chance to put a strategy together with your lawyer. That strategy may include you staying in the home and forcing her out. You need to know these things before you go nuclear. You are the stay at home dad, she is the one who went outside the marriage, she should leave. Because it's in the best interests of the children to have their lives disrupted as little as possible.

She will then need to find her own place and pay you enough for you to manage until you can retrain and find a new job. She should pay you child support. It's the children's standard of living that is important. Judges don't like children to have to go from the family home to a hovel which is one reason for child support.

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best. The worst may not happen but you will be prepared regardless. So, prepare for a massive fight. She has no remorse, has already been to an attorney so she may already be plotting. Have you checked all of your financial accounts to make sure she hasn't been draining them or adding debt?

Often they threaten and then settle when they see you mean business. Ex dragged our divorce out for 2 years and wouldn't settle until 3 weeks before trial. We played the game of chicken. And I won. I held my nerve DG and you will too.

So, were it me I would meet with this attorney and I would get a plan together. I would file. Then I would hand her the papers and tell her to pack her bags. If she doesn't leave then you deal with that legally. All of that can be done in 4 days. You don't have to wait a long time.

And you will start feeling better once you get away from her. She is toxic, no remorse no empathy. She doesn't value what she has, and because of that she is going to lose it.

I'm sorry DG. I know how tough this is. But these are her choices. Not yours. This is on her.


BS, 54 Divorced 2012
I read and walked for miles at night along the beach, writing bad blank verse and searching endlessly for someone wonderful who would step out of the darkness and change my life. It never crossed my mind that that person would be me.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jun 2014
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 10:12 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

Dyokemm,
I've been so tempted to send a long group text to her and her two confidants (her sister and her best friend), her parents who she has distanced herself from (they sensed something I think, and started criticizing her commitment to the family and calling her a bad mother. I don't think they knew about the A, but knew something was amiss), OM's W, and the wife of a guy who worked for her company, who she was sexting with. That would leave her with no one to lie to.
I'm following the majority's advice and waiting to hear what the attorney has to say during our consultation. We actually had a mini consultation over the phone. He was way more inquisitive than the first drone I spoke with. Plus he said, if there is any chance of R, don't go through with it. In other words, he was telling me NOT to give him money if I'm not sure.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 10:16 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

Schadenfreude,
I'll search for that, thanks! I'm 99% sure that she'll not only agree to D, but be as brutal as possible. When I spoke to her about the lawyer she contacted I said, you know I'm at a disadvantage here with no job or prospects (to give her false sense of security that I wouldn't do anything).
Her response was, we couldn't afford a divorce if we wanted one.
Not sure about that comment. I don;t know if she;s talking about the pile of debt we're sitting on, or the bridges she's burned, leaving her with only her sister and best friend.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 10:17 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

I guess I missed it. So she is sexting another do worker that you caught. I assume you have no proof of that that you got your hands on.

The lawyer have you good advice about not paying until you are sure of what you want to do. I a hoping at this point if you go back and read the desperation in your posts that you know what you want to do

You need to be done with her


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 10:23 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

No. She's talking about how much it will cost her. All that money she loves to make? A good chunk wil,be gone every paycheck.

But don't plan on retiring. There is something called rehabilitative alimony. Usually for a set period or,while,you are making adequate progress retaining/updating. Child support disappears when the kids age out of it,,too. If it continues past 18/high school graduation, it's by agreement. And the payments are often directly to the school.

I think she saw a lawyer to find out if/how much this was going to cost her and her comment supports my thought.


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 10:23 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

Salt,
I may have to apply for my own credit card. I can't imagine raising $3500. I have one relative who might help a bit.

Haven't tipped my hand yet, as tempting as it was, tonight. So tempting. She's acting extra nice to me all of a sudden. I think this is the 180 taking affect again. THIS TIME, no sex. Now that I KNOW she hasn't ended A, I don't even want to with her.
She will not go willingly if I try to kick her out. She will not give up the kids, I'm sure of it. I know she wants to live a carefree successful executive life now, but saving face and appearances are more important to her than anything.
I know I sound like a broken record, but it's really tough knowing that the A is still happening, and not saying anything. I'd LOVE to tell her that I know where she was 8:30am on Monday. My explanation of HOW I know, is simply that I've made a lot of friends with other BSs and they are loyal to the cause.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
atreides
Member
Member # 44180
Default  Posted: 10:27 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

I would say, she cannot afford it... or does not want to have to pay a kind of alimony.

As for debt, this should not be feared for your circumstance. It took me 4 years but i settled with my banks and my credit score is now "good". Also i paid a service to help fix my credit report.

Debt is not the end if it means getting out of a toxic relationship... talk about chains and shackles. There is always a way around the financial even if as painful as settling or bankruptcy... in my opinion it is worth it to leave vs being chained down wasting even more years with a constant liar as your W.


Posts: 154 | Registered: Jul 2014
Salt
Member
Member # 43726
Default  Posted: 10:27 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

I made ex pay for all my attorney fees. How else was I going to pay for them? I had no job, hadn't worked in 8 years. I used joint credit cards.

Eta
And you don't know what she is going to do. You can surmise at this point, but she is used to bullying you. The dance may change when she learns that you aren't the same person you were yesterday.

[This message edited by Salt at 10:30 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)]


BS, 54 Divorced 2012
I read and walked for miles at night along the beach, writing bad blank verse and searching endlessly for someone wonderful who would step out of the darkness and change my life. It never crossed my mind that that person would be me.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jun 2014
Tom67
Member
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 10:28 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

Again not beating a dead horse but when you file let his w know please.
Just saying.

Posts: 316 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 10:35 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

You are right about saving face. Let me tell you something I remember my mother saying to some gf going through a divorce.

If he's not good enough for you, how can you think he's good enough for the kids?

She said that as advice on what others would say, but I had occasion to ask her and she explained the general female perspective on the issue to me so I'd understand divorce clients better as a very young and inexperienced lawyer.

Women, far more than men, still have the "social obligation" to be THE parent, even with joint custody. Or,at least to be able to say they are per divorce decree. Very hard to surrender even when they know H is better, more involved, parent.

[This message edited by Schadenfreude at 10:36 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)]


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
Dyokemm
Member
Member # 40254
Default  Posted: 10:39 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

deceivedguy,

No criticisms of you going with the majority.

I;m not even saying I know they are wrong.

Just saying its not how I would play your current hand.

I think taking strong aggressive actions works best in these situations.

Unfortunately, from all the infidelity I have seen in my FOO and with several friends who had the misfortune to go through it, the lesson I have learned is this:

Justice or 'right' have little to do with the outcome.

The aggressive and decisive parties have come out better at the end.

The indecisive and unsure ones come out with the short end of the stick.

It is a sad truth about this world, but the weak usually get devoured by the strong, even when they have justice or right on their side.

The number one piece of advice I have for you, no matter when and how you decide to confront and serve her, is to be DECISIVE.

Despite all her arrogance and cockiness, I doubt she is prepared for you to push an aggressive exposure and D plan at her.

She probably seriously underestimates you and sees you as a pushover.

If you unleash hell on her Fantasyland with speed and determination I would bet money you will catch her off-guard and unprepared.

Remember, keep the enemy off-balance...and yes in any D proceedings your WW is definitely your enemy (even if you harbor a small hope that R might occur sometime down the road).


Posts: 58 | Registered: Aug 2013
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 10:54 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

Except you'd have to have filed for D to back it up when she comes at you like a screaming me me. Spoiling for a huge fight.

That means having the D papers at hand if your state allows a party to serve them himself. Mine does not.

WW : you no good SOB how could you do this to me and endanger my career and any chance of reconciliation ever??? Do you know what, OM would never treat me this way. Hw loves and respects me. Etc.


You: I have a guaranteed solution if you'd just be quiet for a minute

WW: huh? This can't be fixed , I me. I me me I. Etc.

You: I'm serious. Heres the solution right here.

Hand her the papers right then and turn your back on her. Best done when she can't immediately contact her lawyer who is probably on standby during office hours.

[This message edited by Schadenfreude at 10:55 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)]


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
swizzlestick03
Member
Member # 30102
Default  Posted: 10:55 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

Knowing she has been to an attorney changes my advice completely.

Who handles the finances? Do you have access to her income information? I'm sure she probably has a separate account and is likely funneling funds to that. Think about her explanation--it doesn't make sense at all. And if it doesn't make sense, it's because it isn't true. Period.

So she has legal advice and likely has decided to act on her own. I agree with the advice to see what (if anything) has been filed.

I think you've got to figure out the financial part ASAP and then file as quickly as possible. You've got to legally disentangle yourself from her. She supposedly saw an attorney after a fight you guys had but OM threatened you? She is full of crazy and will falsely accuse you of everything under the sun. Liars lie and when backed into a corner, people do crazy, desperate things.

Take a credit card out, do whatever it takes to get the money. I personally think she has not even come close to showing you just how messed up she really is, and desperate people do all kinds of fucked up things. Take care of yourself.


Me: BW-33
Him: WS-32
D-Day #1: 16 August 2010
D-Day #2: 16 January 2011
One smallish kiddo.

Posts: 572 | Registered: Nov 2010
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 10:57 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

She may be being nice because she is getting her own ducks in a row, not due to the 180.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
Tom67
Member
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 11:17 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

In Ill to be a special process server you have to be 18 and not a party to the case.
Just for effect, he should use the deputies in the county she works at they are very thorough.

Posts: 316 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
Freeme
Member
Member # 31946
Default  Posted: 7:14 AM, July 23rd (Wednesday)

Might be a dumb question but why should you have to pay for your own lawyer? Joint money is Joint money I'm sure she plans on/is using it for her lawyer?

Or is it because you would like to keep the filing quiet for the time being?


Posts: 272 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From: Washington DC
jagged
Member
Member # 32317
Default  Posted: 10:02 AM, July 23rd (Wednesday)

Hang in there, DG. You've come a long way in a short time, and you're doing exceptionally well.

Among the many similarities in our stories is the fact that, after almost 18 months of false R and sundry other bullshit from my XWW, I, too, had proof that she was cheating again. By that point, I knew what had to be done (I had already lined up an attorney), and was in the process of putting together the numerous other pieces...but like you, I was really struggling every day with knowing what I knew while going through the motions of a normal, day-to-day existence, and watching her act the same way your W is acting.

While I agree in principle with my esteemed shipmate Dyokemm, what kept me quiet was the desire to minimize the collateral damage to my daughters. A nuclear strike, and the resultant fallout and counterstrikes, would have made a bad situation much worse for them. My decision was made – R was out of the question – and so I tried to prepare myself the strongest possible position for a reasoned, unilateral proposal to my XWW, backed up by the evidence I had, but with no intent to debate or listen to any more lies.

(PS: Be careful. The overwhelming need to confront ultimately proved too much, it turned out , and I broke. Well, sort of. I was at my desk in my home office, emailing something to my attorney, and my XWW walked right in and stood directly behind me, looking at the screen, while she told me about some errand she was going to run. She’d never done this before, and it was likely the effect of several weeks of a strong 180, and the re-discovery of some of my self-respect and a noticeable change in my demeanor that tipped her off something was up. She saw the email before I closed it, and asked me what it was…I could’ve easily played it off and lied – but I broke. Not emotionally, not dramatically – but I calmly told her I knew she was cheating and that I was filing for D. Oh, she still lied, denied, and got very angry and abusive, calling me a “fucking coward” and “liar”, and all sorts of other things that actually lightened my mood by making me chuckle at the irony. In the end, my girls were spared the worst of it, which is what I was most concerned about anyway.

If you decide to delay your confrontation, for whatever reason, realize that you’re vulnerable. Your W can probably sense something is up, and it probably won’t take much to initiate or escalate a confrontation that may blow your timetable. As such, it may be wise to minimize interaction with her as much as you can).

Good luck, brother.

[This message edited by jagged at 10:05 AM, July 23rd (Wednesday)]


One foot in and one foot back
But it don't pay to live like that
So I cut the ties and I jumped the tracks
For never to return

Posts: 333 | Registered: May 2011 | From: TX
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, July 23rd (Wednesday)

I know she wants to live a carefree successful executive life now, but saving face and appearances are more important to her than anything.

If you are certain of this then definitely use it to your advantage. The cheaper way to divorce is through uncontested mediation. I'm going to wager she hasn't hired an attorney and already started D because of the cost and the family debt. Starting the D process on her part would incur those costs that would eat in to her fantasy life style. Also, I'm sure that attorney at the time told your WW as to what she would lose since your the SAHD. Regardless, the intent to D was there when she went for the consult. She may have thought of saving money aside first, but then as the A went along and she thought she could control you and have the OM on the side the cake-eating became much more palatable and dare I say "cost effective".

After Nuke day the best thing to do is to discuss D calmly, get the agreed custody/property terms written down on paper and both of you signing that document and notarized. When you get to that point of discussing those terms you can bet she will use her being the "mother" and "mothers know best" logic as leverage against you. Bring out the mental Judo and use her strengths against her. Point out her strengths and be in "awe" of them. Stroke her narcissistic entitlement for what she perceives as her "missed opportunity" in life and sell that concept in exchange for greater custody of the girls and greater part of the assets. Tell her YOU will take care of the domestic day to day drudgery of being a parent and that you will give her the gift and opportunity to spread her wings and fly as a successful single mom climbing the corporate ladder. She can still have access to the girls and sell it that access as at her convenience. Yes, it's bullshit and manipulative but she earned her way right out of yours and the rest of the family's respect with her manipulating everyone else regarding her A.

Now every time you want to bust out and tell her that you have proof she is still in the A, tell yourself that leverage is a very good thing to have. Leverage is going to get you what YOU want for yourself and the girls. I think "shock and awe" works well for that first A exposure, but your WW is beyond remorse and empathy and this is your second ride on that same merry-go-round. She's taken the A underground and this is going to be your second confrontation and it needs to be the most impacting. The objective is to pull the rug right out from under her so she can't have ground to argue anything.

The sex part is going to be hard, but even more difficult to try and justify to your WW why you don't want to participate. You don't want to give her any heads up that the real reason your wouldn't touch her is because she's still acting like a receptacle for STDs. All I can advise is that your really throw yourself into finding a job, improving your marketable skills, and fine tune your master plan for the future. Tell your WW you want to help with the debt and that your really need to kick it in gear and spend as much time and effort as you can to "help the family out". You won't have time for "intimacy" because you are now on a mission. I'm going to bet she'll be just fine with that because she has a fuck-buddy to divert her "needs" toward.

The OM strokes her ego of self image. You stroke her ego on her perceived control over you and the domestic front. That will be enough to pacify her and give her the green light to fuck up further and be more careless in covering up. She's going to think she has it all and that it'll just be a matter of time she can be open to you about your role as a cuckold. Remember, you are no longer a partner in her life. You, your girls, her family and friends are but pawn pieces in her narcissistic game of life. The best way to beat it is to remove the pieces, fold the game board and not play.

Even though I myself am divorced, I'm still of the mind that R is a possibility for anyone. But it all depends on the circumstances and whether or not the WS pulls their heads out of their ass fast enough before they do more irreparable harm to everyone else caught in their personal drama. Your M as YOU perceive it is definitely dead at this point. The M in your WW's mind has evolved into tool of manipulation. Even post D, there is a chance for your WW to have an epiphany and change but I'm betting that's going to require significant psychological reprogramming of her sense of self that she won't muster the effort to even try.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 653 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
PNWDad
New Member
Member # 40424
Default  Posted: 11:05 AM, July 23rd (Wednesday)

My story parallels yours in many ways. I agree with much of the advice but have to add that I would follow what Dyokemm said. This will be a fight with your worst enemy. Go for the throat and don't let up. If the situation were reversed i.e. she was a sahm she would not hesitate to take you down. You won't have a second chance once you agree to something.


BS:Me 45
WS:Her 43
DD 20
DS 17
Married June 29th, 1991
DDay's: 03/20/2001, 07/25/2007, 03/16/2009 False R through all of them.
I stayed anyway.
Sent her packing June 1st, 2010.
Divorce Final 12/21/2011. Best day of my life.

Posts: 35 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: PNWDad
wk55hn
Member
Member # 44159
Default  Posted: 1:32 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday)

She will not give up the kids, I'm sure of it.

Seems odd given this:

I have her yelling about how she never wanted kids to a friend of hers.

Posts: 637 | Registered: Jul 2014
wk55hn
Member
Member # 44159
Default  Posted: 1:35 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday)

Maybe it's not the kind of thing people say out loud for fear of being looked down upon, but I've never heard anyone say they regretted having their kids unless they were obviously joking about it.

My kids are the light of my life. I couldn't imagine saying what your wife did to anyone.


Posts: 637 | Registered: Jul 2014
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday)

We will all be praying for you that she doesn't fight for your girls. She doesn't deserve to be a mother or role model.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 4:11 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday)

I suspect your lawyer has told you this already, but in case you don't know......

The biggest advantage, at least in my state, of filing first is that courts will enter orders for custody, visitation and support without a hearing. They are called ex parte orders. And they are court orders. The opponent must seek a hearing to have them set aside or modified or live with them.

Examples. You could,get order for custody and support. And preventing her from transferring assets except for ordinary living expenses. She knows money is a bigger problem for you, so if you get those orders she can't play the game,of starving you out.

That is one reason I've suggested you check the county court records.


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 4:17 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday)

You are getting free legal advice. Listen to as Schadenfreud

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Salt
Member
Member # 43726
Default  Posted: 6:01 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday)

DG,
Jduff and Schadenfreude are giving excellent advice here. There are distinct advantages to filing first. You can always stop an action if you want to. Also, any attorney you contract with should be able to very quickly search public records for you.


BS, 54 Divorced 2012
I read and walked for miles at night along the beach, writing bad blank verse and searching endlessly for someone wonderful who would step out of the darkness and change my life. It never crossed my mind that that person would be me.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jun 2014
Tom67
Member
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 9:54 AM, July 24th (Thursday)

Hey DG how are you holding up bro?

Posts: 316 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
Tom67
Member
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 9:54 PM, July 25th (Friday)

bump

Posts: 316 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
meleanoro
Member
Member # 6210
Default  Posted: 11:32 PM, July 25th (Friday)

Dg, I've been following your thread closely. Another bump to let you know people care. I hope you've gotten some stability and progress this week with L, etc.


Me: Tired BS.
(I frequently edit for typos)

Posts: 290 | Registered: Jan 2005
Tom67
Member
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 2:27 AM, July 27th (Sunday)

Bump once more

Posts: 316 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 6:45 PM, July 27th (Sunday)

How are you holding up?


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
Uhtred
Member
Member # 40392
Default  Posted: 9:48 PM, July 27th (Sunday)

Bump for you buddy. Hang in there.


Me: BH 32years old DDay 4-29-13
Her: WW 33 years old
“Yet each man kills the thing he loves
By each let this be heard
Some do it with a bitter look
Some with a flattering word
The coward does it with a kiss
The brave man with a sword”

Posts: 633 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Houston, Texas
ChangeMaker
Member
Member # 43899
Default  Posted: 5:29 PM, July 28th (Monday)

Come on DG, where are you? We're all very concerned for you and wondering how you're holding up.


"Everything works if you let it." - Travis W. Redfish

DDay - June 7, 2014
Me - 43
WW - 41
DD - 6 and 3
Pulling the Plug


Posts: 438 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: Ontario
BtraydWife
Member
Member # 42581
Default  Posted: 10:04 PM, July 28th (Monday)

Hope you are ok.


Me-BW
Him-WH
DD-March 2010
TT for 6 months
Unremorseful for 3.5 years

Delay is the deadliest form of denial. - C. Northcote Parkinson

Your standards aren't up for negotiation just because he/she can't meet them.


Posts: 2580 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
Tom67
Member
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 10:39 PM, July 28th (Monday)

I hope you are okay also.

Posts: 316 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
Too_Trusting
Member
Member # 99
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, July 29th (Tuesday)

^^bump^^

DG, I've been following your thread and am also concerned that it's been a week since you've posted. Please check in and let us know how you're doing, OK? We're all worried about you.


"Anyone perfect must be lying; anything easy has its cost. Anyone plain can be lovely; anyone loved can be lost." Barenaked Ladies

Posts: 2497 | Registered: Jun 2002 | From: North Carolina
Tom67
Member
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 4:46 PM, July 29th (Tuesday)

Sadly It seems Elvis has left the building.
He was thinking of confronting her a work last week.
Hope he is okay.

Posts: 316 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, July 30th (Wednesday)

I hope he is okay too. I can only guess that maybe he left the home and doesn't have access to a computer? I sure hope she didn't find out about SI and made him stop.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
GettingHappy
New Member
Member # 42129
Default  Posted: 8:19 PM, July 30th (Wednesday)

Also hoping he is okay!!

Posts: 46 | Registered: Jan 2014
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 10:27 PM, July 30th (Wednesday)

DG

Are you ok?

HM


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 7:43 AM, July 31st (Thursday)

Thank you all SO MUCH for continuing to check in with me and this topic.
Everything kind of blew up.

We had a blow-out after she heard me talking to one of my friends on the phone about "proof". She admitted to still seeing OM, but only while going to her car, which is a possibility.

OM is a maintenance guy in her huge office building. She parks underground in basement parking, near maintenance guys. There is a possibility that she sees him all the time because of that, and not actually having sex. Just stealing a kiss walking to car. I know, it's more of a probability that it's still going on, but I don;t have definitive proof.

Talked to lawyers. There is no guarantee that I'll get full or even majority custody of my girls, if I file for D.

Right now, I'm in a holding pattern. I've been doing 180 for two weeks. No physical contact. She acts like a normal loving W at home and my kids are none the wiser. I'm on an AD and Xanax, and have a therapist. I wish that I could just find out that WW isn't actually cheating any more, then I could live with the situation a little easier.

I didn't do anything to deserve the situation I'm in, and I deserve to have better, but I can't make a move right now because of previously stated reasons. I need to improve my career skills to jump back into workforce. I cannot rely on D court to give me support or my kids. Those of you who are sure that I'd receive alimony, child support, and my girls, are mistaken. There is no guarantee on any of it. And the amount I'd receive even if I did, could be minimal.

I know that staying with WW because of my children is not right, but I cannot explain to you the heartbreak that I feel, just thinking about what happens after I serve those D papers. I need to have definitive proof that she is still cheating, and I need to be prepared to be out on my own. Bottom line.

So, I'm hanging tough and doing 180. I will eventually resume checking on her, but need some time after last incident. At this point, I'm fairly numb, and couldn't care less if she's still cheating.

I know that I'll get flamed for being a doormat and some of you will say "congratulations on your open marriage, hope you enjoy it", so flame away.

I can't explain to you the feelings that are going through me 24/7. I just know that my girls' happiness is all I have left right now, and I'm hanging on to that until I can get the proof and some semblance of independence.

Still have hand brace and physical therapy until October.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 8:51 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, July 31st (Thursday)

She admitted to still seeing OM, but only while going to her car, which is a possibility.
At that point you tell your wife your are fed up with her treating you with such disrespect.

Did you tell anyone that this OM threatened to kill you through your wife?

That needs to be told to as many people as possible. Now. I would never take a threat like that. You are right, you did not do a damn thing to deserve this.

I don't remember now, didn't your wife agree to NC with this OM?

Continue to snoop as much as you can. Learn everything you can. Have you done any kind of background check on this OM.

Find out as much as you can about ALL of your enemies. And that is exactly what these people are in your life. They are your enemies.

Your wife has the leverage for the time being. October will be here soon enough.

It sounds like you need a lawyer that does believe in the rights of men and fathers. Look at this web site and email them and ask them for a list of lawyers in your area.

http://mensrights.com/


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
Freeme
Member
Member # 31946
Default  Posted: 9:39 AM, July 31st (Thursday)

She admitted to still seeing OM, but only while going to her car, which is a possibility.

I think you know she is still cheating but are not ready for a D. When will you be ready? From what I've read your wife can be a loose cannon -- you have stated she could very well make false accusations against you to the police. That she would lie to your girls in a hartbeat in order to "look good" and make you "look bad".

You havn't worked in 8 years and can't use your right hand for several more weeks and are broke.

Making that step toward D don't sound fun but it does sound inevitable. Keep getting your ducks in a row... job...savings...Lawyer... and keep doing 180. At some point you will realize that the life you are leading in constant fear of D is far worse than actually getting a D.

you Might want to check out the investigative tips section of this site if you still feel you need more proof.

Check out the divorce section or off topic for advice for D and SAHD.


Posts: 272 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From: Washington DC
Bigger
Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 9:48 AM, July 31st (Thursday)

Have you contacted the company’s HR department or WW manager about the affair?


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5585 | Registered: Sep 2005
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 10:48 AM, July 31st (Thursday)

Good to hear from. Sorry about that close call. That really sucks. Well, at least you know that the A is still going...at least an EA one. Most likely you are right and it is more. Hang in there in the meantime till you are in a better spot to D. I don't think you are afraid of D in losing her. You have really grown and become detached from her. I just think you want to be as comfortable as possible to support your girls. Just keep an eye one her in case she is getting her own ducks in a row. I can't see her leaving you for him. After all he is just a parking garage manager. She is all about image.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
Tom67
Member
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 11:14 AM, July 31st (Thursday)

Find a way to contact the guys wife. You have her fb page I say go ahead and do it.
She may not know any of this.

Posts: 316 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, July 31st (Thursday)

Find a way to contact the guys wife
This is the part that bothers me and no one has commented on.

DG's wife told him that the OM would kill him if he told his wife.

Take it seriously or not? File a RO or not?


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
atreides
Member
Member # 44180
Default  Posted: 11:40 AM, July 31st (Thursday)

It would not deter me, exposure helps the process greatly.... the fog lifts rapidly

Posts: 154 | Registered: Jul 2014
Salt
Member
Member # 43726
Default  Posted: 11:51 AM, July 31st (Thursday)

DG,
Go easy on yourself. We each need to move at the pace that is right for us. Filing is a major step, confronting and boundaries are major steps. You need to be ready to back up any threat you make.

The fact that she is setting her alarm in the car suggests to me that she might be becoming suspicious. You might want to change your tactics regarding gathering evidence.

DG, given what you have decided, were it me I would continue to carefully gather evidence. I would start the process to get myself re-certified from a work standpoint so I could make the transition back to work more easily. Get yourself as independent as possible so that if things change you are ready.

That will have several benefits. You will feel better about yourself and she might start to respect you more. Having been in your position I have noticed a lack of respect for the party not working. It isn't right but there it is.

Focus on you. Plan for your future with your girls. If your wife gets it together you can include her. If not, you are prepared for a worst case.


BS, 54 Divorced 2012
I read and walked for miles at night along the beach, writing bad blank verse and searching endlessly for someone wonderful who would step out of the darkness and change my life. It never crossed my mind that that person would be me.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jun 2014
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 11:57 AM, July 31st (Thursday)

The fact that she is setting her alarm in the car suggests to me that she might be becoming suspicious. You might want to change your tactics regarding gathering evidence.
The fact that she knows DG is not shy of going to her car in the parking lot would mean she has to change her tactics and not bee seen walking to the car with the OM.

This could be interesting.

DG, show up at her office sometime at lunch, maybe to take her to lunch.

Does she have an office phone, if so, do you call her during lunch to see if she might be somewhere else.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
wk55hn
Member
Member # 44159
Default  Posted: 1:06 PM, July 31st (Thursday)

What is the reasoning for not exposing to other man's wife? Seems to me that exposing might shake things up a bit and maybe some skeletons will fall out of the closet.

Sounds to me, based on infrequency of texts even before d-day, that affair is (was?) almost purely sexual, not emotional.

By the way, from what you have posted, your wife seems like a very emotionally cold person.

You can wait as long as you want for your wife to slip up and for you to catch her with "proof." As long as you are willing and able to put up with your wife's hiding stuff and stonewalling you and possibly carrying on the affair, which it seems so far you are willing and able for the sake of your daughters, this can go on for as long as you can take it. BUT will you eventually getting "proof" lead to a better ultimate outcome for you? What is your endgame?

Early in my adult life, someone I respect told me that "hope is not a plan."

[This message edited by wk55hn at 1:07 PM, July 31st (Thursday)]


Posts: 637 | Registered: Jul 2014
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 1:06 PM, July 31st (Thursday)

Judge won't issue protective order based on pure hearsay which this information is. My cheating wife told me her lover said.......

Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
Schadenfreude
Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 1:06 PM, July 31st (Thursday)

Dbl post. Damn phone

[This message edited by Schadenfreude at 1:08 PM, July 31st (Thursday)]


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 2:12 PM, July 31st (Thursday)

Thanks all!
WW is not setting car alarm, it's a glitch. If you lock it with the remote, then open with a key, the alarm will go off. That was my mistake. I had forgotten. I thought it would only sound the alarm if I tried to start it after opening with key.

Still contemplating contacting OM's wife. Haven't ruled it out.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Freeme
Member
Member # 31946
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, July 31st (Thursday)

Do you really think that OM made a threat to kill you if you told his wife? I thought that was just an excuse WW made for why she went to see a D lawyer. She didn't tell you about the threat at the time did she?

There is a good chance that if you tell his wife she will tell her husband how she found out. Make sure you have all of your ducks in a row.


Posts: 272 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From: Washington DC
spond
Member
Member # 41686
Default  Posted: 2:39 PM, July 31st (Thursday)

make sure you have proof when you contact the OBS.

Nothing worse then the AP trying to blow it off with his wife, saying it's some crazy person.


BH(me) | fWW
2 Kids - Married 2002
D-Day TT & EA | D-Day #2 PA
Reconciling

Posts: 427 | Registered: Dec 2013
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 10:04 AM, August 1st (Friday)

I haven't decided whether or not to tell OM's wife. I was going to do it anonymously under the guise of, "I happen to know my co-worker is having an affair with your husband...".
There is a very simple way to prove it, but that would give OM's wife my WW's name. To prove the A, all I have to do is tell her to look at his cell phone bills. I can even give exact dates...

I am worried that my WW will tell OM that it was me, and I might be in danger. OM is a big guy, but not sure if he is dangerous.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, August 1st (Friday)

Deceived

if you do not want to push anything right now, that is fine. This threat stuff about something he may have said should not put you into fear and paralysis. That is nonsense.

So that means even if he is still fucking your wife you are going to sit there terrified he is going to hurt you. If you are that scared, ARM yourself. although I believe all this threat stuff is just a lot of bravado.

Again, your decision on what you want to do about your situation should not be determined by some moron scaring you into hiding in your house.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Tom67
Member
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, August 1st (Friday)

Badhurt is spot on.
Do you really think he is going to risk jail time?
But it's your call.
If anything he will drop your wife like a bad habit and will be scrambling to save his own marriage that's why exposure is usually recommended.

Posts: 316 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, August 1st (Friday)

I believe all this threat stuff is just a lot of bravado
And would he risk jail time. Hard to say, the guy is from Russia and who the hell knows what he thinks.

But many people do not exactly worry about jail. Maybe he would be deported.

I would be concerned about this threat and at the same time mad as hell that my wife brought such a POS into my life to threaten me.

Something needs to be done about this threat. Schadenfreude said you cannot get a RO on hearsay, so have the wife get one for the entire family.

Your wife needs to quit this job actually and she needs to see just what the hell kind of hell she brought into your and your families life.

Of course she will balk at quitting her job, because she is selfish and still refuses to see the harm in what she has done.

That is why this affair needs to be exposed and everyone told needs to also know this OM threatened your life.

I do recall that you have not told her family yet and maybe not even yours. That your wife would go ballistic if you did and you are saving this for later.

Your wife is acting completely selfish now to the point of no return and actual harming your family.

She won't even stop talking to this POS OM.

Maybe it is time your wife starts seeing the consequences of her actions and selfishness.

Did you look up lawyers in your area on the Mens Rights website.

I do know that if you talked to the cops about this, there is a good chance that they would go and have a little chat with this OM. They would do that here anyway. They usually don't like threats to kill someone.

And they then would be on notice.

Inaction is going to lead to trouble. Action might lead to trouble, but I think inaction would lead to bigger trouble.

Tell your wife she is quitting that job today and to start looking for another job.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 10:50 AM, August 1st (Friday)

It didn't occur to me until the incident, that my wife is still parking in the basement, by the maintenance guys. She explained away the couple of times I knew he had walked her to her car, by telling me that she ran into him. I of course, told her she's not even supposed to be talking to him! She said she couldn't avoid running into him. Then it occurred to me... in this huge, multi-level parking garage, she's still parking near him! I told her to stop ASAP. Next time I get over there, I'm going to see if her car is still there. If it is, I might put a picture of OM and his family (from OM'S W's facebook page, on her windshield) with a note asking why she's still parking there.

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 8:49 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Badhurt
Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, August 1st (Friday)

Deceived,

She is still parking there in a huge garage because she wants to see him. This is no riddle. And she does not care whether you like it or not.

She is NOT going to quit her job tomorrow. And if you are thinking of divorce you do not want her income stream cut off.

You have said you are not ready to act. There is no analysis needed.Either you out the OM completely, alert the police at the same time, or you do not. There is no sense playing any more mind games.

your wife does not give a shit what you think. She believes she has you by the balls, and there is nothing you can do but either suck it up or take action.

I thought from your previous post that you pretty much had decided to lay low and suck it up.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
crisp
Member
Member # 34236
Default  Posted: 11:26 AM, August 1st (Friday)

I am not sure why you have been told/or you think you have been told that there is such uncertainty about support you will receive in a divorce. Sure nothing is for sure in this world and any lawyer would be a fool to guaranty you a specific outcome, but there are firm guidelines in your state for support calculations. You, as the primary caregiver (short of some nasty trait you may have that has not been disclosed), will be the parent with the majority of time awarded for the kids. Here is your State's website on how to calculate the MINIMUM you would be given as the primary caregiver:
http://www.childsupportillinois.com/general/calculating.html
Look at it.


Endeavor to persevere. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csEzTwKemwY

Posts: 466 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: NE US
crisp
Member
Member # 34236
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, August 1st (Friday)

Here is an excerpt from the State's webpage in spousal support:
A "typical" periodic maintenance case in Illinois is as follows: The parties have been married for 10-20 years. Both parties have similar educational backgrounds. The husband has worked full-time in his profession throughout the marriage and now earns a comfortable income. The wife worked full-time early in the marriage but ceased working outside the home when the children were born. The wife needs additional education or training in order to become self-supporting. The children are still young - in elementary school. In this case, it is quite usual to see "periodic maintenance" or "unallocated support" for a defined period of time. The payor spouse will continue to provide support until a reviewable event or the passage of a predetermined period of time.

For maintenance purposes, some examples of "reviewable events" are:

The attainment of a certain level of education of the payee spouse
A significant increase in salary of the payee spouse
A significant increase or decrease in the income of the payor spouse
The passage a predetermined period of time
A child entering school or attaining a predetermined age


Endeavor to persevere. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csEzTwKemwY

Posts: 466 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: NE US
nomistakeaboutit
Member
Member # 36857
Default  Posted: 11:32 AM, August 1st (Friday)

I told her to stop ASAP. Next time I get over there, I'm going to see if her car is still there. If it is, I might put a picture of OM and his family (from OM'S W's facebook page, on her windshield) with a note asking why she's still parking there.

Yeah, maybe not.

Let's talk about rising above the fear. Let's talk about regaining some of your power. Here's a plan, which would be timed to all happen on the same day.

1. You post a message on the OM's wife's Facebook page, exposing the A.
2. You call the company's HR department and out the A. Your evidence is that your wife told you about the A.
3. You call the OM's manager and out the A. Let him know you've spoken to HR.
4. You call your wife's manager and out the A. Let him/her know you have just gotten off the phone with HR.
5. You file for divorce with full custody, alimony and child support requested at the highest possible levels.
6. You call the OM at work and let him know everything you have just done. This call you will do on speaker phone. You will record it. If he threatens your life, you ask him if he is serious. You tell him it is nothing to joke about. You let him dig a deeper and deeper hole. You then drive to the police department and express your fear for your life and report what has happened to the police and have him arrested. You get a restraining order and arm yourself. You walk with your head held high.
7. While you're driving to the police department you call your wife at work and say, "hi honey, how's your day going? Good. Good. OK. Have a good rest of the day. Oh...before you go, one thing. I've notified HR about your A. I've talked with your manager about the A. (....all the way down the line). This afternoon you will be served divorce papers and I am filing for full custody. Have a nice day.

Or, you could put a picture on her windshield.

Forget about your hurt hand. Forget that you're broke. Rise above your fear. Take control and take back your power.


Me: BH 58.........Her: WW 45
DD: 8..........DS: 5
Married for six years.
DDay: 12-25-11 Divorced: 7-15-12
...................................
"It's like a nightmare within a nightmare, which in and of itself is a nightmare!"

Posts: 968 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: U.S.A.
Salt
Member
Member # 43726
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, August 1st (Friday)

You know, DG, if she cannot avoid running into him at her work, she shouldn't be working there anymore if she wants to save her marriage. She should be actively looking for new employment.

Very good points made by earlier posters:
- She had an affair, putting her marriage and family at risk
- She slept with this man, putting your health at risk
- She communicated a threat to your life to you, by the person who is part of destroying your marriage, and apparently is unconcerned about it (IF it's even true - more likely it's an attempt to get you to back off exposing either of them)
- She cannot avoid running into this man, and isn't trying to avoid him, she isn't concerned or interested to do as you ask, go completely NC with him, whatever her excuses are.

It seems by her behavior she isn't really interested in saving her marriage. You can stay quiet now, but I think you will find that as you do she will not only continue but be emboldened by it. Perhaps that is what you need to see.

In the meantime, getting yourself independent financially is necessary because looking at your situation from my view, with my experience and the past 4 years watching this happen to many others, the outcome of your marriage doesn't look good. Eventually you are just going to decide you have had enough. You haven't reached that limit yet, OK. But don't wait to get yourself on your feet financially/work wise.

[This message edited by Salt at 11:42 AM, August 1st (Friday)]


BS, 54 Divorced 2012
I read and walked for miles at night along the beach, writing bad blank verse and searching endlessly for someone wonderful who would step out of the darkness and change my life. It never crossed my mind that that person would be me.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jun 2014
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, August 1st (Friday)

DG - I would like to be clear about something...

Is this the same OM that your wife had sex with. The proof from the lab?

Are you certain it was this guy?

I sort of got confused about this and some other OM that worked at a different place.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
tushnurse
Member
Member # 21101
Default  Posted: 1:30 PM, August 1st (Friday)

Wow. I just read through this thread.

I gotta say you are hung up on the proof. Why do you need proof. Even if she isn't fucking someone else she certainly isn't loving and supportive of you, and is a crappy mom too.

Why would you want to spend the rest of your life with someone who has zero respect for you, blames her kids for making her life less than stellar, and continues to act in a way that is not remorseful, or even regretful.

You get it, you need to D, You also have a laundry list of excuses, quit making excuses and get off your ass and start acting. You can't fill out applications? But you can type just fine to be on SI. I know you've been out of the market a while, but NO ONE has paper applications anymore. I mean NO ONE. Everything is done on line. Get busy man. Most hospital systems are dying for IT people due to the mandates for EMR's and "Care Everywhere" compliance. Most of the helpdesk jobs even allow you to work from home (after training).

I also gotta say you concern me with the pain meds/Xanax and AD's. I know it's a lot to go through right now, but if anyone wants to question your ability to parent, they are going to take a good long look at any possibility of drug or alcohol use/abuse.

Your wife strikes me as being a Narcissist, and I think it's good you are cautious, because even though she wouldn't want the kids full time, she may fight for them, because you want them. Vengeance justified or not can be a very dangerous thing. Keep the VAR on you, cut back, way back on the narcotics if you can, and only use the Xanax at bedtime if at all. Use other methods to decrease your anxiety, walking, yoga, playing with your girls.

I do think you still have a just a niggling of what if I could detach and stay with her, wouldn't it be better? NO NOT a Chance in the world. It will suck your soul, and show your girls some f'd up version of what M should be, and they will be more likely to repeat what they experience. You certainly wouldn't want them to walk in your shoes. Stand strong, tall, and brave. You will get through this and be happier in the end.

One last thing. You are codependent as hell, get yourself some books on this, and changing that habit. Learn to be happy being just you. Being independent and alone. Once you master that, then you can seek out romance, but if you don't you WILL get hurt again and again.


Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 15 & 17
Married for 22 years now, was 16 at the time. .
D-Day Sept 26 2008
Fully R'd, and Happy Happy Happy

Posts: 8889 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: St. Louis
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 8:17 PM, August 1st (Friday)

I agree with much of what you guys are saying, but I'm having a hard time jumping ship.
Yes, I have a lot of excuses. I freely admit that. We are already in debt and unless one of you are going to give me $3500 for my lawyer, he's not going to be in the picture.
I've been sending out applications and having no luck. Although I had 20+ years of IT experience, I cannot effectively jump on the same skills and interview questions I used to crush.

Realistically what will happen is, I'll be living with my wife and daughters under a D in progress with WW bringing in the income.

Hey I admire anyone who can successfully scoop up the kids, jump, and land on their feet. I don't feel confident that will happen to me.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Tom67
Member
Member # 42664
Default  Posted: 9:01 PM, August 1st (Friday)

Hold off on the d that's fine.
Tell his wife about the affair.
You want this to stop right?

Posts: 316 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: United States
Jduff
Member
Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 9:59 PM, August 1st (Friday)

DG, you already have a plan. Stick with it. You know your wife better than any of us. If you think she will go ape shit on you when you expose her A in full then do what you can to gain your upper ground. For now find out how to contact OM's wife and plan on how to let her know. Despite the threat, I think the OM is more afraid of his wife finding out.

Consider exposing your wife's A on all fronts at once and leave her no refuge to gain advantage. Make sure YOU have options and the ability to backup your delivery of consequences.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 653 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
Salt
Member
Member # 43726
Default  Posted: 10:17 PM, August 1st (Friday)

The problem here is not OM. The problem is your wife. If she is not remorseful then it is likely to happen again with someone else. Om's wife deserves to know the truth, but your wife must want to end the affair herself for any real change to occur.

DG I know it's scary. I went through it myself. I delayed until the pain of continuing to live the way I was living exceeded my ability to want to continue.

When you are sick and tired of feeling the pain then you will take action. And the pain isn't going to go away. Your wife isn't remorseful, she isn't doing what is necessary to repair the marriage, she is continuing to see om. You can out the om to his wife and it may end their affair. She will be furious with you so you will have to deal with the fallout. She will be furious because she has no remorse, no empathy for your feelings, for your pain.

Im sorry to be so brutal but it's pretty clear to all of us who have seen and experienced a lot. We don't want to see you to continue to suffer. When you have had enough it actually feels better to get away from them.

Keep the VAR, continue to monitor her. She will show herself to you.

Get some retraining in the IT field to freshen yourself up. Then go back to work. No matter what you need to be able to support yourself moving forward.


BS, 54 Divorced 2012
I read and walked for miles at night along the beach, writing bad blank verse and searching endlessly for someone wonderful who would step out of the darkness and change my life. It never crossed my mind that that person would be me.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jun 2014
dreamlife
Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 6:35 PM, August 2nd (Saturday)

What if your WS iPad from her job were to just suddenly "vanish"? Of course...DG...you would claim not to know a thing about its disappearance.

Am I being naive, folks?

Just thinking out loud here & trying to be of some help w/ the abject *torture* that marital SECRETS bring and I suspect it would hold a treasure trove of info.

I fully understand all the mind f*cking pain I went through when XWS would just shrug and say..."I forgot"..."I don't remember" meanwhile looking like the puffed up cat that swallowed the canary. (At least I was finally able to download a key logger which helped quite a bit.)

Yes, get your ducks in a row before you file D.

Get to feeling alright about it. No rush.

(((huge hugs)))


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25439 | Registered: Sep 2005
Salt
Member
Member # 43726
Default  Posted: 9:32 PM, August 2nd (Saturday)

First, in my first M, XW had a child from a previous M, she thought she would get it all too. In fact, during one of our confrontations(I was stupid enough to ask why she married me) she looked me in the eye and told me she married me for the child support, the court would NEVER split the kids. She was wrong. She paid me support for 14 and a half years(until he turned 18). You could win. DON'T believe her. I do suspect she's already seen a lawyer though.

The above is a quote from 5454real from another thread. DG why don't you pm real and ask him his story. Men do get child support. Men do get 80% custody.


BS, 54 Divorced 2012
I read and walked for miles at night along the beach, writing bad blank verse and searching endlessly for someone wonderful who would step out of the darkness and change my life. It never crossed my mind that that person would be me.

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jun 2014
BtraydWife
Member
Member # 42581
Default  Posted: 9:37 PM, August 2nd (Saturday)

You know she didn't see a lawyer because her boyfriend threatened you. If you don't find a way to secure a lawyer then you are going to be blindsided when she does what everyone here has been advising you to do.

She'll file for divorce and sole use of the house. She'll file for the max allowed for custody, no alimony for you, and ask for child support from you.

You'll find yourself out of your home searching for a place to live, fighting for time with your girls, and fighting for money to survive on. Then you'll have absolutely no choice but to manage to secure a lawyer in an emergency situation.

She did not see a lawyer because her boyfriend threatened you. She doesn't care what you think or how you feel. She lies to your face everyday.

You need to find a way to secure the lawyer now. This IS an emergency situation. Check out my tagline. Delay is the deadliest form of denial. Want to find out how terrible it is? Just wait.

Hell pawn stuff if you have to, ask every family member for what they can spare, call to extend your credit line and take a cash advance. Plead with the lawyer to make payments. Try another lawyer. You haven't tried everything.

Stop falling for her diversions. You are only trapped because you believe it's true.

[This message edited by BtraydWife at 9:39 PM, August 2nd (Saturday)]


Me-BW
Him-WH
DD-March 2010
TT for 6 months
Unremorseful for 3.5 years

Delay is the deadliest form of denial. - C. Northcote Parkinson

Your standards aren't up for negotiation just because he/she can't meet them.


Posts: 2580 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: United States
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 9:53 PM, August 2nd (Saturday)

If you don't find a way to secure a lawyer then you are going to be blindsided when she does what everyone here has been advising you to do.
I had forgotten that she admitted to seeing a lawyer already.

Can you ask relatives to help with finances for a lawyer. Talk to other men on here that did get custody and child support.

I hate to bring up this old stock market saying, but it seems accurate, If you snooze, you lose.


Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
LeopoldB
Member
Member # 40606
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, August 5th (Tuesday)

You have a PM.

Posts: 212 | Registered: Sep 2013
Long Gone
Member
Member # 32587
Default  Posted: 11:38 AM, August 7th (Thursday)

Whats going on DG?


D-Day 11/26/10

Posts: 772 | Registered: Jun 2011
hopefulmother
Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 9:02 PM, August 7th (Thursday)

I hope things are going well on the job front. Enjoy your weekend with the kiddos.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
craig2001
Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 7:05 PM, August 13th (Wednesday)

DG, how are things going?

Posts: 4420 | Registered: Jun 2002
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 9:01 AM, October 14th (Tuesday)

UPDATE;
I want to thank all of those who offered support early in this crazy tragedy.

I had to take a break from SI because there were too many people responding with pressure to divorce immediately. I was already distraught enough and really unsure of what I was going to do. Although divorce was probably inevitable due to WW continuing TT and dishonesty, I had to do this in my own time.
We are now in the early stages of divorce. We both have lawyers, but the kids don't know. I'm sure they suspect, but we haven't talked to them yet.

I'm doing really good, taking care of myself, and focusing all of my attention on my girls. It's been a long road to travel in the past few months, but I'm looking forward to a new healthy life. I'm PRAYING that I get what is due to me in regards to custody and maintenance. Only time will tell.
Thanks again for being there. Those early months would have been unbearable without the support of fellow survivors.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 10:40 AM, October 14th (Tuesday)

DG

thanks for the update. I hope you and your girls will be ok.

What prompted the divorce?

HM


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 8:46 PM, October 14th (Tuesday)

HM,
She hired a good looking young assistant and started becoming very interested (at home) in subjects that he was very interested in. I went through this with original OM, and other that I've suspected.
I went to visit her at work one day and he ducked out a back door. There was also a weird texting situation with him. I finally gave up. This is never going to end. I did everything in my power to save this marriage and our family. She has emotionally moved on long ago, I'm sure.

I used the 180 to distance myself and it worked. I'm over her. I just want my girls and I to move on. Unfortunately, she's now smothering the children with affection, gifts, etc... so I have no idea how this will pan out in the end. All I know for sure is, I could no longer go on living like a doormat. I love my girls more than life itself. I hope things work out the way I want them to!


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
5454real
Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:49 PM, October 14th (Tuesday)

Sending strength brother.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 21(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 3301 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
mhca
Member
Member # 41920
Default  Posted: 11:02 PM, October 14th (Tuesday)

I had to take a break from SI because there were too many people responding with pressure to divorce immediately. I was already distraught enough and really unsure of what I was going to do. Although divorce was probably inevitable due to WW continuing TT and dishonesty, I had to do this in my own time.

Deceived, I think you're doing very very well. Glad to see that you're standing up and doing the right thing in the middle of this shit storm. And of course you have to do everything in your own time, and in your own way -- that's absolutely right.

I just want to clarify, particularly for new BS's that might be following, a subtle point. As I recall, here and most places in SI, there is often advice to quickly file for D, and to be prepared to accept D if the WS continues in infidelity or to refuses accept responsibility to work towards R. That doesn't necessarily mean D right away -- though to be sure, in your case most of the writing was already on the wall.

Anyway, I applaud you for standing up. Keep us posted!

[This message edited by mhca at 11:03 PM, October 14th (Tuesday)]


Me: BH 47 STBXWW 47 (Lklb5)
M 19 years, DS 15, DS 11
DD#1: 12/24/2013
TT/Broke NC/False R
DD#2: 4/15/2014
TT 4/23, 4/24, 5/31, 7/19
Divorcing

Sample recovery plan, feedback welcome: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=539961


Posts: 902 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: California
happyman64
Member
Member # 33212
Default  Posted: 5:30 AM, October 15th (Wednesday)

Glad you decided to act.

Your wife has a screw loose and you cannot fix that.

Only she can.

All you can do is try to keep things amicable.

Good Luck


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New York
jjct
Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:02 AM, October 15th (Wednesday)

dg- strength to you man!

The smothering will not last - your stbx is way too selfish, try not to let it bother you too much.
Your babies love you, no matter what they choose to do for now. In time, I promise you, they will know which parent is upright, strong, and dependable. It's difficult to see them being manipulated, many of us have to witness this, be patient. Truth will out.
Both my boys experienced this, and many years later, they've told me wonderful things I'll keep close to my heart forever. All that tongue-biting was worth it.

DO search for "how to tell children about divorce etc." to get age-appropriate pointers and ideas. It will help.
Be strong brother.


Posts: 6833 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
deceivedguy
Member
Member # 44049
Default  Posted: 9:03 AM, October 15th (Wednesday)

Thanks again!!!
I will now use this site for divorce advice and learn from the experiences of others here. With children involved, this is even tougher. I have to bite my tongue and protect them from the truth, as tough as that is.

For the new people here, I want you to know that I COULD NOT have made it through the early days/weeks/months of this situation, without the support, advice, and shared experiences of the other members here.

I'm ready to start giving back and sharing support with others. I am still amazed at the sheer mind-blowing numbers of cheating spouses / significant others, out there.


Me (49), WW (44), 2 Awesome DDs
DDay 6/2/2014 - 16 years married
Possibly new or continuing A, currently.
Worst experience of my life. Still having a tough time dealing with this. I appreciate your support, more than I can express.

Posts: 178 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Indiana
Topic Posts: 563