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Reconciliation
User Topic: Talk to me...feeling down
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Concerned  Posted: 9:35 PM, July 19th (Saturday)

I haven't written much in the last few weeks. I am still with my boys and staying with my parents. My H left a few days ago to go home (driving) and we will join him this week as we wanted to stay longer.

It's been kind of a crappy time for me. There has been non-stop construction right outside our home - even Sat.'s! The noise is relentless. My parents really don't speak to each other very kindly at times. It really bothers me to watch them and I have called them out a couple times. They are aging and Mom seems very confused. And I did not call my bf. First summer in 8 years. Nor did she call me. She told me months ago that she couldn't muster up the "energy" to have the four of us together (she is still "confused" with her feelings towards my H). I could have met with her solo but didn't feel right to me.

But this sadness I feel is really about me and my H. IDK...something feels different. No. He's not cheating. I just feel as if he has removed himself so far from the A - its left him. He goes on. I still feel hurts and pangs. Afterall, the A took place right under my nose here when we were visiting my family. Just being here is a trigger. Driving by head office is a trigger. I want to throw a brick through the window and have it find her her!

I actually asked him to leave the family trip days earlier too bc I was tired of his lack of presence. He went out one night (with my uncle), fell asleep early the next night. Went out with our friend on night 3, fell asleep early on night 4. WTH?! I got mad. He got mad back. Eventually, he saw the view from my perspective. I was lonely and told him so!

I have to say....I wonder at times if he fought for me bc he didn't want to lose our "family". Our boys. As opposed to me. I wonder if he just didn't want a bad name in our small town. Now that things have settled down between us, I am sensing a....complacency from him. And when I get upset, he gets upset right back. Or says, "I am sorry you feel that way." I never did like that kind of apology. He insists he is trying to connect with me. And while writing that he signs off with a G'night. No, "love you/miss you or even some stupid huggy blackberry icon.

I am not sure what to do right now. With our M. We need help but part of me is afraid to keep going. I go to make an MC appoint and then stop myself. I might feel less hurt in the future if I go at this alone.

[This message edited by LA44 at 9:37 PM, July 19th (Saturday)]


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2303 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
Myname
Member
Member # 23138
Default  Posted: 9:52 PM, July 19th (Saturday)

Hello.

I'm sorry you're hurting and feeling alone.

Why are you not making the appointment with MC?

[This message edited by Myname at 9:53 PM, July 19th (Saturday)]


DD: 1-14-09 EA/PA OM #1
TT: 5-11&12-09
DD#2: 5-18-09 EA OM #2
5-31-09: Told me she hasn't loved me.
No kids
Me BH: 38
12-08-10: S

Posts: 3039 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: Inside your computer.
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 10:05 PM, July 19th (Saturday)

Thanks Myname. I appreciate that.

At times I just think, Am I ever going to be satisfied? Am I going to want to sit there and rehash and talk and cry and droan on about this or that?

I guess I do if I want my M to work, right?

I feel tired. If I was on my own, I wouldn't feel hurt but a late night, an early night, a missed I love you.


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2303 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
Myname
Member
Member # 23138
Default  Posted: 10:12 PM, July 19th (Saturday)

I guess I do if I want my M to work, right?

This was going to be my other question. Do you want your M to work? I could understand if you didn't but if this is something you are wanting to try and save then MC I would think would be a necessity.

What are H's feelings on MC? Is MC something he wants to try or is he totally against the idea?


DD: 1-14-09 EA/PA OM #1
TT: 5-11&12-09
DD#2: 5-18-09 EA OM #2
5-31-09: Told me she hasn't loved me.
No kids
Me BH: 38
12-08-10: S

Posts: 3039 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: Inside your computer.
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 10:23 PM, July 19th (Saturday)

We did go to MC early on. She was very focussed on marital issues as opposed to the A. It was me who ended it after 12 weeks. I suggested he continue on with IC and I would too. He still goes.

But now. Now, I think we need to go back to MC - and a new MC.

I do want the M to work. And I want to feel good on a more consistent basis. Again. I feel like he put on such an effort in 1.3 years and I was so so impressed. Lately...not so much and it really makes me question what things are going to be like 2, 5, 10 years from now you know?


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2303 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
bionicgal
Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 10:28 PM, July 19th (Saturday)

(LA))
We are on vacation, too. It is a weird, happy, kinda needy time for me. I feel sort of the same, "My H isn't doing enough" thing. But, I am not sure if that isn't natural. Travel is stressful, even if you like it. In my experience, men can be very task oriented, and let the nuances of relationships falter when stressed.

I know I am kind of guilty of expecting my H to read my mind, or just figure out what I need. Did you need time alone with him? A date night? To have coffee alone? Just to make time for you? If so, did you ask?

Let us know how you are doing... Keep the faith.

[This message edited by bionicgal at 10:29 PM, July 19th (Saturday)]


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is more like a mental break than a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 1998 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 10:36 PM, July 19th (Saturday)

Thanks bionic. I did speak up. After a terrible day last week I blurted out...You have either been out or asleep and I miss you! I am lonely!

We had 2 dates and another night out with friends in 14 days. I think I kept waiting to feel this..... thrill - this deep happiness. Like last year which was awful and energizing and really lovely all at once. But this year...its not like that. He's back home now. I am here. He is talking about the back deck looking great when I arrive and his golf tourney. I am going, "Great. How about you just say,'I miss you.'

[This message edited by LA44 at 10:37 PM, July 19th (Saturday)]


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2303 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
Myname
Member
Member # 23138
Default  Posted: 10:37 PM, July 19th (Saturday)

I did MC for a while too and our MC refused to talk about the A too. MC only wanted to talk about my failures. Even WW was confused by the MC not wanting to talk about the A.

A different MC sounds like a good idea. I don't think it would be good to go back to that first one.

I feel like he put on such an effort in 1.3 years and I was so so impressed. Lately...not so much and it really makes me question what things are going to be like 2, 5, 10 years from now you know?

As Bionicgirl said, have you tried verbalizing exactly what you need from him?



DD: 1-14-09 EA/PA OM #1
TT: 5-11&12-09
DD#2: 5-18-09 EA OM #2
5-31-09: Told me she hasn't loved me.
No kids
Me BH: 38
12-08-10: S

Posts: 3039 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: Inside your computer.
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 10:47 PM, July 19th (Saturday)

I haven't done this in a while Myname. Early on our MC had us write out our Wants/Needs/Values. I would look at my list which I kept in my purse and marvel at how "on it" he was.

He was making great progress. Taking great care. By George, we've got it! But in a matter of months it seems like things are changing and this is something I need to re-visit. And I kinda resent that I even have too.


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2303 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
Myname
Member
Member # 23138
Default  Posted: 10:58 PM, July 19th (Saturday)

I think that would be good to do a little refresher course on the wants/needs/values list.

I know for me it was hard for me to show affection. I had to consciously make the effort to do it. There would be times that I would get focused on other things and just forget to do the things that my WW needed. My feelings didn't change I just forgot to show her how I felt in the way that she needed.


DD: 1-14-09 EA/PA OM #1
TT: 5-11&12-09
DD#2: 5-18-09 EA OM #2
5-31-09: Told me she hasn't loved me.
No kids
Me BH: 38
12-08-10: S

Posts: 3039 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: Inside your computer.
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 11:00 PM, July 19th (Saturday)

Thanks Myname. This has been helpful and so too is this...
My feelings didn't change I just forgot to show her how I felt in the way that she needed.


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2303 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
Myname
Member
Member # 23138
Default  Posted: 11:04 PM, July 19th (Saturday)

Have you ever read the 5 love languages? I'm sure you've heard of it. If you haven't read it you and H should read it.

He may be showing you he loves you in "his love language" by making you coffee in the morning but you need to hear it verbalized because that is the love language you speak.


DD: 1-14-09 EA/PA OM #1
TT: 5-11&12-09
DD#2: 5-18-09 EA OM #2
5-31-09: Told me she hasn't loved me.
No kids
Me BH: 38
12-08-10: S

Posts: 3039 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: Inside your computer.
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 11:10 PM, July 19th (Saturday)

Yes, we actually read it and took the quiz. Both of us had Affirmation as #1 and then Physical for him was #2 and my #2 was Gifts. I love the little gifts that say, "I know you" like a fav piece of chocolate, coffee or magazine. I haven't rec'd one in quite a while.

It also made me think that perhaps I have not been that complimentary of him lately so the past few days I have been working on that.


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2303 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
Myname
Member
Member # 23138
Default  Posted: 11:13 PM, July 19th (Saturday)

Initiating I love you's and things like that may spark him to reciprocate back and even initiate himself.


DD: 1-14-09 EA/PA OM #1
TT: 5-11&12-09
DD#2: 5-18-09 EA OM #2
5-31-09: Told me she hasn't loved me.
No kids
Me BH: 38
12-08-10: S

Posts: 3039 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: Inside your computer.
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 11:15 PM, July 19th (Saturday)

and I know initiating is hard for me. I doubt myself and I see my DS doing it now too. Okay. this is a good thing to bring up in MC.

Well...past midnight here and this gal needs some sleep.

G'night and thanks again for the feedback.


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2303 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
Myname
Member
Member # 23138
Default  Posted: 11:17 PM, July 19th (Saturday)

Goodnight. It's sleepy time for Myname too.


DD: 1-14-09 EA/PA OM #1
TT: 5-11&12-09
DD#2: 5-18-09 EA OM #2
5-31-09: Told me she hasn't loved me.
No kids
Me BH: 38
12-08-10: S

Posts: 3039 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: Inside your computer.
needfriendshere
Member
Member # 43350
Default  Posted: 11:41 PM, July 19th (Saturday)

LA44, I hope today is a better day for you. I know about the ups and downs and the wondering why our H's did any of the things they've done. Try to speak his love language. It has helped us to draw closer to each other. You deserve to feel special.

Hugs!!


Me: early 50's
WH: early 50's
Married: 23 years
DS: 21 years old
Other DS: 18 years old
D-day: 2/14/2014
H's AP lasted 6 years, but we are both trying hard to R.

Posts: 416 | Registered: May 2014
Exhausted in OH
Member
Member # 34340
Default  Posted: 12:01 AM, July 20th (Sunday)

I just feel as if he has removed himself so far from the A - its left him.

This is where I'm at as well. It still affects me so deeply - not constantly, but deeply - and I just don't think he gets it anymore. It's so far in the past for him, it's just a distant memory. And I wonder - maybe it's on me to stop picking the scab. And then I read here, and I remind myself that's it's normal to still be healing....

I have to say....I wonder at times if he fought for me bc he didn't want to lose our "family".

This has been the niggling thought in the back of my mind since the beginning of the shitstorm. He vehemently denies it. But who knows?

I'm sorry you're feeling so low - you are usually so positive. But as you know, it's a roller coaster, and the downs are a necessary evil. It's great that you expressed yourself to him. Now it's his job to figure out how to help you.


BS 42(now 45), WH now 46
Married 15 (now 18!), together 22, 3 great kids - 15, 13, 10
DD Sept 2011 - 4mo PA; on DD also admitted to ONS in 2007
R going well
And now I realize...- Me OEA - old college friend
No longer exhausted nor in OH

Posts: 436 | Registered: Dec 2011
918Mama
Member
Member # 37756
Default  Posted: 1:22 AM, July 20th (Sunday)

((LA))

One thing I've noticed recently...once the constant trauma and survival post affair is over, and reconciliation is underway, the original marital issues might still be there under the surface.

I'm all for leaving and being happy...except that I feel like what you might be experiencing is less affair related and more male/female related.

If that's the case, those issues will exist in any relationship. A good MC will help you two work through that and get back in sync. Make the appointment!

Then, if you feel the same way, at least you will know you've tried.


Surrender to what is. Let go of what was. Have faith in what will be. -- Sonia Ricotti

Posts: 578 | Registered: Dec 2012
morethantrying
Member
Member # 40547
Default  Posted: 1:52 AM, July 20th (Sunday)

918mama: One thing I've noticed recently...once the constant trauma and survival post affair is over, and reconciliation is underway, the original marital issues might still be there under the surface.

I think this is soooo true. And it is hard not to let the marital fight trigger deeper hurts of the affairs. I struggled with this very recently.

LA44: I have some advice if you would allow me as this has really helped us: If you can get yourselves to a JOHN GOTTMAN couples therapy workshop weekend it is soooo worth it. John and Julie Gottman do an excellent job and you get to see them interact as a couple...even work out a fight right up on stage. It is informative,very funny, fun and very worth the rather low price for what it is.

We flew from a foreign country to attend and it was the single best thing we did for our love and our marriage. It does not take away the hurt or the struggles (at 18 months I still struggle almost daily), but it DOES give a new perspective and focus both husband and wife on the same page and a bit more positively. I cannot recommend it enough. If you have money for MC, than you perhaps can afford this...It was hard for us financially, but we decided our marriage does not have a price tag.

The weekend is with other couples and you see them as well (though you do not have to interact or even talk to them in any way....we didn't) all session you just find a corner and talk with your spouse and practice newly-learned relationship techniques--- it is truly worth it. In Gottman, BTW, you learn how to "keep the good changes going"...so important as you seem to indicate in your post you two are struggling with that. Also follow up research shows good maintenance rate with MC follow up after that...we do it at home too. A Relationship isn't just "fixed" and now we are done...it is a life-long commitment and a daily one. Not for the faint of heart, IMO!

We all want to be connected with one special person, feel loved and understood and happy. For us,Gottman (30 years of research BTW) really did work and it was worth it to give it all we have....only one life...and I DECIDED to go through this life with him...for better or worse...it is getting better now...actually a lot better than it has ever been. (going through one of my better days today

[This message edited by morethantrying at 2:07 AM, July 20th (Sunday)]


Affairs - hard on us both - but love will win.
Me: BS 55
Him: WS 62
Married 32 yrs.
dday TT from 12/2012-2/2013)...

Posts: 291 | Registered: Sep 2013
catlover50
Member
Member # 37154
Default  Posted: 6:18 AM, July 20th (Sunday)

((((LA44))))

Hi hon. Sorry you are feeling down.

I went through a rough spell with my H this week. It hit me forcibly that although he has changed in many ways, much more giving, loving and unselfish, he still had his entitlement issues and ability to rationalize his behavior. Issues that I had always struggled with but had "put up with" for years since he refused to address them. I realized, with my IC's help, that this left me still feeling unsafe (since clearly this attitude allowed his A).

So, with the help of the wise folks here I put my foot down. He needed to "fix his shit". Whatever it took, and he needed to figure out how. He has agreed.

We start with a new MC next week who says that she is all about "digging deep" and would like to continue on with my H individually if they click. My H admits that he wasn't getting anywhere with his previous IC.

I asked my H what will happen if he fails to follow through this time and he replied that it's just not an option. But since he has let me down so many times before I am not holding my breath. I am willing to go to the wall on this. Otherwise I feel in my heart that he/we will get complacent and eventually his issues will rear up and he will betray me in some fashion. Probably 10 years from now when it would be harder to start over.

Best of luck.



Dday -9/24/2012
Reconciling

Posts: 1735 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: northeast
devasted30
Member
Member # 39439
Default  Posted: 7:12 AM, July 20th (Sunday)

I wonder if you might be entering, "The Plain Of Lethal Flatness". I think our WS go through something similar as well. I know my WS is fully committed to making this work, but after almost 2 years, I know he is wishing that I would just get over it. Not all the time, but I believe it is starting to get to him. Wondering why, when he is such a devoted husband NOW, why I can't just let everything return to normal. He knows in his heart that I will never fully recover from this but he never thinks about the OW and can't understand why I still do. He has never said this. Has never voiced this, but I think this is the way he feels. He still shows me love in the usual way, but doesn't seem to go out of his way. KWIM? After the first year (it will be 2 in October) I feel that he is not feeling remorse any longer. I use to think he did, but maybe they rebound faster then we do. Then again, maybe it was all an act. Put on for us because that was what they were suppose to do. Maybe it's time for them to re-read, How to Help your Spouse Heal from Your Affair. Possibly it is just something as simple as a little bit of selfishness on their part. After all, they were that way before and after putting us first for so long now, maybe it's just a bit of childish behaviour rearing it's ugly head. We can all be selfish at times, can't we? I don't know if I am explains myself properly here. I sound a little scattered, but I think you probably understand what I'm trying to say. I think it all breaks down to human nature. Even the best person in the world must sometime have a selfish thought.
Remind him what YOU need. Remind him that you are not over this, that you still need the affirmations that you are the most important person in his life. That even though you know this, you need to hear it. Yes, it's a pain that we have to keep reminding them to do this, but that's the way most guys are, the way they are wired.
Set up that appt. With the MC. This M thing will constantly need tweaking and fine tuning. It's a work in progress. We need to remember this. But, anything worth keeping is going to take constant nurturing and demand attention.
Sorry if this ends up sounding like a lecture. That is not how I mean it. I think I am just reminding myself about all this as well.
((((Hugs))))


Posts: 1223 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: Ontario, Canada
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 7:51 AM, July 20th (Sunday)

LA - I'm so sorry to hear this and I wondered where you'd been lately! People here miss you LA!

I wonder if you are feeling additional betrayal by your parents and in particular, your friend! That would really hurt me if she didn't want to get together. What do YOU have to do with your husband's actions? And your heart is probably breaking regarding your parents and their unhealthy interaction?

I understand what you mean when you wonder if what he does will be enough. Hubby and I did take the 5 love languages test - before and after affairs - before my LL was acts of service. After - words of affirmation. Hubby continually works on acts of service because you know what - they're easier to do than words, less intimacy needed. If hard physical labor could save this marriage it would be done already. Alas, it cannot. (the house looks great though!) I think spouses really need to get down to the gritty of what they need. He needs to listen to what you need from him, what kind of partner you need HIM to be.
What kind of partner does he need YOU to be and could he even articulate that to you?

I remember giving my husband a clear example of the honesty I needed. If anyone has seen that movie with Liam Neeson about a plane crashing and the survivors having to take on wolves to survive? Well, there is a scene after the crash where he is comforting an injured passenger. The passenger asks if he is going to be ok. Liam's character says, "no you're going to die. Let's make your last few minutes nice for you." I want THAT kind of honesty. He can't do it. At least I've seen no example of it yet.

I guess I've gone on and on here. Do you know what you need from him? From a partner?

I'm sorry honey! hugs!


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's


Posts: 5040 | Registered: Dec 2010
meplusfour
Member
Member # 38958
Default  Posted: 9:10 AM, July 20th (Sunday)

((LA44))

Sending you good thoughts. I wondered where you were. I hope that today is a better day.


BW (me)42
WH 44
3 daughters, 1 son
Married 10 years, together 13
DDay 3/14/2013, four year PA
In R
"Sometimes you have to accept the fact that certain things will never go back to the way they used to be."

Posts: 368 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Canada
Althea
Member
Member # 37765
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, July 20th (Sunday)

Hi LA,

This all sounds a lot like year 2 to me. Things settle down, the trauma of the A is less on the forefront of your mind, and things return to "normal" whatever that is.

I think you've gotten some good advice on this thread, particularly the suggestion that the issues you are having are more marriage issues than affair issues, but the pain and frustration related to the former is bringing up old pain related to the latter. I struggled with that for several months recently, and had to be really mindful about what exactly was hurting me.

I think Rachel brought up something very interesting too:

I wonder if you are feeling additional betrayal by your parents and in particular, your friend! That would really hurt me if she didn't want to get together. What do YOU have to do with your husband's actions? And your heart is probably breaking regarding your parents and their unhealthy interaction?

Is it possible that you really needed your WH to be there for you on this vacation because of the above?

I had many instances where something like this would happen and I wouldn't even necessarily pick up on it at the moment it was going on, but because I didn't or couldn't recognize this need and then communicate it, it went unmet, and I became resentful. For me, when things like this happened, I quickly ended up snowballing into wondering whether I should even be married to this man who can't be there for me in the most basic way. The problem with that is that I was constantly reaching for my last resort option, way before I was there.

This doesn't seem like a last resort kind of scenario, where you need to pull out the big divorce guns; so, why not take it off the table? Not forever, or for every instance, there may come a time where you clearly communicate a need or boundary and he disregards it. At that point you will have a different decision to make, but that doesn't seem to be where you are now.


Taking it one day at a time.

Posts: 457 | Registered: Dec 2012
hopefull77
Member
Member # 43221
Default  Posted: 12:10 PM, July 20th (Sunday)

la...I have missed you and wondering how you are...you are usually so positive it is heart breaking to hear your struggles...
we all can relate to this...
it is the roller coaster for sure...we WANT to feel normal and know we can because we have many examples of folks here who have 'fully reconciled' and are "happy happy happy'
I long for this new tag line....but it takes time and HARD work...and it can be exhausting and rewarding at the same time...I am trying something new ...I am trying to focus on the NOW...very hard to do especially on weekends when I have time to let my mind wander...
I just read something this morning that sounds worth a try...picture a beach and you have walked and walked left all those foot prints in the sand..the waves come and wash them away...make those foot prints the negative thoughts..let them wash away...
I am sorry about your friend and your parents...these things just add to the misery..try and remember that this is about them and not you...as far as mr la I find reconnection and communication are a must...even when I am blue...just sitting and holding hands helps...


me-BS
him-WS
3 adult children 1D 2S
married-1977
LTA 09-2010 - 11-2012
D-day - 11-11-2012
status - reconciling and very hopeful
"Let Go of Control; Let God's Life Flow" ...Richard Rohr



Posts: 556 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: sunny california
AML04
Member
Member # 39682
Default  Posted: 3:25 PM, July 20th (Sunday)

LA, so sorry to hear you are struggling. I don't have anything to add but wanted to send you a hug.

(((LA)))


Me-BS Him-WH DS 5/12
Met 2000, Married 2004
DDay 5/26/13, TT through 8/13
2.5 yr EA w/co-worker, PA 12/12 to 4/13
Hopeful for R

Posts: 870 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: MA
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 9:54 PM, July 20th (Sunday)

I have missed SI and its bc of these caring and thoughtful responses. For those of you who said you were wondering where I went or you missed me. Thank you. That makes me feel good right now you cannot believe. It's so much harder to get computer time at my parents' house - the boys are with me all the time - no friends to distract them! We get back to our home on Wed.

I grabbed many things that stood out for me from this thread. But I do agree with 918Mama - this is more of a marriage/male-female thing then it is an A thing but as Althea said below...

....you are having are more marriage issues than affair issues, but the pain and frustration related to the former is bringing up old pain related to the latter. I struggled with that for several months recently, and had to be really mindful about what exactly was hurting me.

My H was here with us for two weeks and then left as he had our car and drove it back home (2000 miles away). Me/boys wanted to stay longer as its the last summer in our parents' house. But since he returned home, he has not been consistent at all in terms of expressing his love or just being thoughtful. Like, "how was your day with the boys?" "I miss you". "I was thinking of you tonight." I feel furious when I think how many times he goodnighted her or told her he missed her. I deserve that and so much more every single day that we are apart. Every day.

Also from Althea...

I didn't or couldn't recognize this need and then communicate it, it went unmet, and I became resentful. For me, when things like this happened, I quickly ended up snowballing into wondering whether I should even be married to this man who can't be there for me in the most basic way. The problem with that is that I was constantly reaching for my last resort option, way before I was there.

Yes. This really stood out for me. When he can't be there in the most basic - basic - way. Or to do so consistently. It wrecks me and I go right to, Fuck this and I really don't want to get to that place in my head. There is more in me then that. Last night I wrote him a note to say how I felt. I was calm. I was rational. I told him what I needed. He wrote me a lovely note this morning. It was loving and caring. Later in the day he sent me his golf score. Since then....nothing. WTF? I am with our kids all day long for crying out loud! How about you ask how they are? How I am?!

@catlover....

Otherwise I feel in my heart that he/we will get complacent and eventually his issues will rear up and he will betray me in some fashion. Probably 10 years from now when it would be harder to start over.

Yup. I have had this thought numerous times. That 10 years from now, something will happen and I will think back to this Summer 2014 and want to scream. I hope you and your H make it. I hope he does the work needed. You have been a great sounding board here for me.

@Ohio...

It still affects me so deeply - not constantly, but deeply - and I just don't think he gets it anymore.

Yup.

@devastated....

Wondering why, when he is such a devoted husband NOW, why I can't just let everything return to normal. He knows in his heart that I will never fully recover from this but he never thinks about the OW and can't understand why I still do. He has never said this. Has never voiced this, but I think this is the way he feels.

My H often says, "I can only be in the NOW. How am I doing NOW? Let's not ignore the NOW." I think my H is truthful when he says thinking of the AP repulses him. And bc of this it must be very hard for him to get why I would hold on to any A thoughts.

@rachelc

I think spouses really need to get down to the gritty of what they need. He needs to listen to what you need from him, what kind of partner you need HIM to be.
What kind of partner does he need YOU to be and could he even articulate that to you?

Thank you for this simple message that I am going to take to him. What kind of partner does he need me to be. He has never told me this. I know he wants me to be friendlier. Esp. when he comes home from work. I need him to be considerate. If he thinks of me, tell me. If he is bothered by me, tell me. If he has had a raunchy dream about me - tell me! I want consideration, honesty and I want to feel cherished. I really felt that in year one. I know it was not an act. I want that.

@rachelc...

I wonder if you are feeling additional betrayal by your parents and in particular, your friend!

It was at this part in the thread that I started to cry. It got me bc its true. While I could have seen my friend, even for a coffee, I did not pick up the phone. Nor did she. The last time it was the two of us she did not ask me how I was. Did not ask how H was. She acted like he did not exist. I know our friendship has some gas left but I could not betray MYSELF by seeing her and be some fake version of me, playing by her rules. My parents....this is the last summer in this beautiful house Dad started building the day I was born. I feel love for them. I feel angry when they take a shot at one another. And I feel sad and guilty that I am not here to help them on a regular basis.

@morethentrying...thanks for all the Gottman info. Funny but after the A and before I found out, I was pushing for a Gottman trip. And my H used to tell me his quote - that one negative comment takes at least 7 positives. I wonder how he could throw this quote out to me and yet he was having an A! Wonder how many positives are required after that? while having had an A?! But you are right. The seminars are $ but worth it. I hope we can do this one day.

@ needfriendshere, meplusfour, hopefull77 and AML. Thank you.

[This message edited by LA44 at 9:58 PM, July 20th (Sunday)]


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2303 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
karmahappens
Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 8:35 AM, July 21st (Monday)

Hey LA

I haven't been around much , so sorry to jump in late here.

I think your husband does a wonderful job 90% of the time...it's that other 10% that breeds doubt and sadness.

I especially think he doesn't meet your needs wrt going to your parents house, in affair-ville.

For me, when my husband didn't do what I needed I would withdraw and take it as a sign of him not caring.

In reality there are times they walk on eggshells too. Have you asked hubby what it feels like for him to be back there? He is at your parents home, and also the place he had an affair. Does he get nervous? Wait for a bomb to blow in his face? Walk around expecting a trigger from you?

He could be so busy withdrawing himself to avoid more A discussion/feelings, kwim?

Have you discussed the trip to the parents before and let him know it makes you feel sad, hurt and apprehensive even before you get there? Have you given him the vision of the inside of your brain pre-trip? It's not easy to understand if you haven't been inside a BS's head.

And remember, you have an entire picture in front of you. Look at your husband as a whole. We could all fail if broken into pieces, but look at where he stands right now LA. You are proud of him, you know he has moved mountains to be with YOU. If he just wanted "the good name and family" he wouldn't have been able to come so far.

You are rebuilding a marriage. The foundation is so important. Pull out the pieces that don't fit right and change them up. We are never done learning and growing...it takes time. Reverting back to old FOO and coping skills is normal. Having a spouse that recognizes when we do this is important. You are a team, let him know when he is falling back and give him permission to do it to you as well.

After the affair is over and the fire is out the A stuff is there as hurt to work through, but just as important is the life work we do...forever.

Reach out and show your hurt, minus the anger. Let him in and let him see the inside of your head.

I am not saying he was right in his behavior, but I do believe he wants this and the two of you need to find a way to communicate your needs.

(((hugsLA)))


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3822 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
needfriendshere
Member
Member # 43350
Default  Posted: 9:01 AM, July 21st (Monday)

Lots of wisdom here! I, too, realize that our H's are walking on eggshells sometimes too. They know they screwed-up big-time and they often wonder why we are sticking it out with them and how we could ever forgive them. I wonder if they don't fear sometimes that R is just not going to work. I mean, my H still sees me crying sometimes. And I nightmare almost every night since Dday. That can't be easy on him.

To make up for the pain he has caused me, he has taking me out all the time, and constantly telling me how much he loves me. But is he perfect 100% of the time? No. He's human and gets tired and grumpy like the rest of us. And during that 10%, I, too, start to panic, fearing that old habits may rear their ugly head, fearing that the "honeymoon" may be over.

I also realize I am not the only one who has triggers. Last night a woman was talking about the band Hinder and how her nephew is the drummer. Then she started singing the song "The Lips of an Angel". My H looked it up on his cell phone and shuddered. He showed me the lyrics and said he couldn't handle them. He was pretty depressed for the next 10-15 minutes. And this was during a pre-concert party.

I know this may sound corny, but when I have those days when I wonder if I can make it through this whole thing, I get so much comfort from coming here! LA44, keep talking to us. You are in a safe, safe place surrounded by people who know just how you feel. And we care - all of us care. Hang in there!!

(((LA44)))


Me: early 50's
WH: early 50's
Married: 23 years
DS: 21 years old
Other DS: 18 years old
D-day: 2/14/2014
H's AP lasted 6 years, but we are both trying hard to R.

Posts: 416 | Registered: May 2014
DixieD
Member
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 11:00 AM, July 21st (Monday)

LA, there are things you listed that unfortunately sound a lot like Year 2. It is that way. It's tough.

This week would have been very triggery for you with many things building up, and resurfacing, including your knowledge of your damaged friendship. And I know it's hard for me to see my parents sometimes because they are still dysfunctional and I see how we used to be just like them. It makes it more difficult to be around them when you recognize the bickering/dynamic. It gets old and tiring. Plus everything gets harder (with guilt) as they age.

I also think your husband has a pattern of being great to a point and then dropping the ball. He can still be selfish or self-focused at times while pointing out everything he is doing right. He still has some work to do.

I just feel as if he has removed himself so far from the A - its left him. He goes on.

Have you talked to him about this? I don't care if the affair is 5 years out, if the BS is triggering and says they are triggering I would hope the WS would step up and go through the soothing routine with the same commitment they had in Year 1. It helped then and it will still help that they acknowledge and care about the pain and damage they caused. There isn't an expiry date on compassion and empathy.

Maybe instead of asking him to leave you could have asked him to step up? Have you told him when you are triggering/struggling when it's happening in the moment (if you can recognize it….. with time/experience and communication that becomes easier) and what you want/need from him specifically in those times? A game plan. He's into sports, he should understand a game plan.

Hang in there. (((LA))))


Growing forward

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2011
tired girl
Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, July 21st (Monday)

I am going to agree with a lot of what Karma said and ask how the two of you handle these trips back to your parents beforehand and while you are there?
It would seem that there tends to be a lot of issues surrounding going back there for obvious reasons and maybe it should be handled differently.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4946 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 9:48 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)

Hey everyone who responded after my last response. Thank you. Feel so much stronger after reading these all over again, plus the new ones.

The Lips of an Angel.

ugh. Needsfriendshere. I can't listen to this song anymore.

@karmahappens....

Have you asked hubby what it feels like for him to be back there? He is at your parents home, and also the place he had an affair. Does he get nervous? Wait for a bomb to blow in his face? Walk around expecting a trigger from you?

I asked him that this past Christmas when we were here (we come here twice year for approx 2-3 weeks). He said that he felt brutal when he needed my dad's car and thought to himself, "FIL is probably sitting at home right now saying to himself, 'so...this is what he used to do - borrow my car for so-called biz and meet with AP'" He said he felt ashamed. That was the extent of it though and I didn't push. I would love for him to talk more about this. I don't know how he feels when he walks into Head Office/possibility of seeing AP. I imagine he is very anxious and wants to throw up. I would hate to be in his shoes.

I guess I stopped asking bc of what I wrote earlier- it seems so far away for him. It seems to pain him physically when I bring it up. But I don't mind asking or hearing the answers.

Also...

Have you discussed the trip to the parents before and let him know it makes you feel sad, hurt and apprehensive even before you get there? Have you given him the vision of the inside of your brain pre-trip? It's not easy to understand if you haven't been inside a BS's head.

No. We did not discuss it going into this summer. But I felt as we were driving into the city - tense, angry, as if I had reached my limit and we were only arriving. I chalked part of that up to 17 hrs of driving but I knew the other part was bc we were going to A'ville. My hometown that seemed tainted now.

And remember, you have an entire picture in front of you. Look at your husband as a whole. We could all fail if broken into pieces, but look at where he stands right now LA. You are proud of him, you know he has moved mountains to be with YOU. If he just wanted "the good name and family" he wouldn't have been able to come so far.

You are right karma. I love this. I need to look at him as a whole and not just bits and pieces. I am proud of him. I know he hasn't been bs'ing me. I just think what Dixie D said is right...

I also think your husband has a pattern of being great to a point and then dropping the ball. He can still be selfish or self-focused at times while pointing out everything he is doing right. He still has some work to do.

I just feel as if he has removed himself so far from the A - its left him. He goes on.

Have you talked to him about this?

No. I can't say that I have. I have made comments but there has not been a lengthy convo. There needs to be. Again - it is the pained look he gets - like he wants to throw up when I take the A out of the closet.

I picked up Not Just Friends while here and have been plowing through it. Its helping and I have so many pages marked.

Looking forward to getting back home tomorrow night and finding some time for us in the week ahead.

Thanks for all your input. I am printing this thread.


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2303 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
DixieD
Member
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 12:51 AM, July 23rd (Wednesday)

He said he felt ashamed. That was the extent of it though and I didn't push. I would love for him to talk more about this. I don't know how he feels when he walks into Head Office/possibility of seeing AP. I imagine he is very anxious and wants to throw up. I would hate to be in his shoes.

I just feel as if he has removed himself so far from the A - its left him. He goes on.

I guess I stopped asking bc of what I wrote earlier- it seems so far away for him. It seems to pain him physically when I bring it up.

I have made comments but there has not been a lengthy convo. There needs to be. Again - it is the pained look he gets - like he wants to throw up when I take the A out of the closet.

LA, I think you explained a lot with these comments. It sounds like your husband is stuck in shame. Shame is self-focused. Shame is more about how this affects him instead of how it's affecting you.

I saw the same pained and queasy look from my husband. I saw him shame spiral. He still feels it at times but he had to set that aside, not let it derail him, and help me heal. Getting past that was also important for him to come to acceptance of what he did and what he was capable of. If your husband is avoiding going there and you are avoiding going there for his sake, how will he get past it?

You may see all the great things that he is doing, but (I assume) you feel short-changed/frustrated if he is not able to have conversations about this with you, or unable to be there for you when you have triggers or bring up the affair because he can't deal with his own shame.

This thread may interest you. ILINIA gave a couple very good analogies.
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=536592

(((LA)))

[This message edited by DixieD at 12:53 AM, July 23rd (Wednesday)]


Growing forward

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2011
FixYou71
Member
Member # 42654
Default  Posted: 3:24 AM, July 23rd (Wednesday)

I'm sorry you're hurting. There sure are some wise people here huh? Good advice from the great SI women so far.

I fear the exact same thing you do, going through all of this only to find myself a few years down the road in a marriage that has settled into complacency. Small changes become habit. FIrst the lack of sweet texts, maybe because work gets busy. Then the kisses and hugs get fewer, maybe because FWH thinks I'm healing and doesn't need to be as demonstrative for my sake. The frequency of sex changes but there's always a 'good' reason. Someone gets a new favorite show and the conversations at bed time wane away. Soon those dates get fewer and farther between. Soon that look that he gives sometimes, the one that helps me to see his love for me, doesn't show on his face anymore...etc. Eventually we find ourselves feeling more alone, less as each others soft place to fall, less as each others partner. That 'I've got your back' theme no longer seems to fit. That leads to feelings of resentment, arguments, noticing more of each others' faults.
The only way I know to try to avoid that scenario is if both halves of the marriage communicate, stay focused on the important stuff, and commit to doing consistent work to grow the bond, protect the marriage and uplift each other and follow through with that commitment. Doing any of that requires 1. Recognition: of the need, of the consequences of not paying attention and 2. Proactivity. Every day, every week, every year until, as my southern relatives would say, 'the Good Lord takes ya'. I'll bet we would all have much better marriages, As or no As, if we prioritized them as something fragile, something that can be taken away if we don't treat it with dignity and respect.
If you could discuss your fears with your H, reiterate one anothers' needs/wants and, if you mutually agreed that your M was from now on going to be the a number one top focus and priority you'd be off to a great start. (Who doesn't want to have their spouse make it their top priority to give them all the love and affection and support and affirmation they want? How great would that feel to know he/she thinks of you constantly while considering how to uplift and cherish you?)
You could then develop a game plan together on the things you commit to do to show that it is (top priority) and ways to ensure focus isn't lost.
What it all comes down to is maintaining that close loving connection. I've heard the word connection come out of my mouth so many times the last few years and mostly when communicating fear of losing it or expressing how bad I need it. It is more important to me than just about anything.
I hope you are able to work through this and get back to a place where YOU feel connected consistently and even go beyond the best you've experienced thus far. It can only be what we make of it. We are molding and shaping this M. If we are not doing something to get better, chances are we are getting worse. I pray we all only get better.
(((LA44)))


BS: 43
H: 49
Dday #1 Oct 2007 (Porn for 2 yrs)
Dday #2 May 2013 (Porn for 5 more yrs))
Dday#3 May 2014 (finally admitted to drunk kissing OW in 1994: the 2nd drunken kiss with another woman during our M)
DD 21 and DS 17
Married 1993

Posts: 451 | Registered: Mar 2014
rachelc
Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 6:29 AM, July 23rd (Wednesday)

If we are not doing something to get better, chances are we are getting worse.

wise words FiX


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's


Posts: 5040 | Registered: Dec 2010
LA44
Member
Member # 38384
Default  Posted: 9:17 AM, July 23rd (Wednesday)

Again, thank you Dixie D and FixYou.

Dixie...I was thinking about the shame too and how it is not about the BS. I do believe that first year it was about me. I would cry, talk, scream, and he would hold me, say how sorry he was and then go out and do something that would better us - be it working hard to get that trip to Ireland, or fixing something up around the house, or just leaving me a note in my car when I was at the gym.

But perhaps after time with me still hurting, he is moving into shame? IDK...Will check out the link by Ilinia. Thanks for that.

FixYou, your entire note had me nodding in agreement.

We spoke the other night and through that call and in two notes, I expressed wha I needed to hear from him. The bbm's increased, the calls came in and apparently he has some "good things" awaiting our arrival.

Printing the rest of this off.


Me: 44
He: 47 WH
Married: 15 years
D Day: December 2012
Affair: Fall 2009 - Dec. 2011
R is not linear

Posts: 2303 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: Canada, eh
Rebreather
Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 11:14 AM, July 23rd (Wednesday)

I think Dixie is really right on about where he is.

You've GOT to have these conversations. He HAS to feel the pain. He has to feel to heal it, yo. Don't back off because it hurts him, when it's hurting YOU. That's a little CoDep.

I know you are plenty strong enough to push through this. Force the issue a little bit. He's still got some selfish mindsets that he needs to work through. Let him.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6484 | Registered: Jan 2011
Topic Posts: 38