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4 years....and still having issues. 😔

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smf5175 posted 10/23/2017 00:58 AM

So it's been 4 years since D-day in August, and BH and I are still having our problems. He still thinks I'm unemotional, cold, callous, unremorseful, towards his side of healing from my infedelity. He used those exact words. As I sat here thinking about it, I came to realize that there was a reason I sit in silence while we 'talk'. Because a couple of years ago, I tried to be open, vulnerable, emotionally available and more that willing to talk about anything and everything with BH, and he shut me down. He basically told me he didn't want to see tears from me when I spoke with him, he didn't want to hear what I was saying at the time (which I was so ready to talk about the A and how I felt about it all), maybe because he wasn't ready? So for 2 years I've basically bottled all of my emotions up trying not to upset him, but now he's pissed off because I don't show enough emotion. I don't know whether I'm coming or going!

So for the last couple of days I have been trying to let emotion out, to be vulnerable, and it's almost impossible. Except for tonight...tonight I cried. I think though they were tears of hurt, anger and pain. Mainly because I don't feel like myself right now. I feel like I have to be someone I'm not so I don't make BH angry. Because when I do try to talk to him and tell him how I really feel, it comes out as frustration...Mainly because I've got all of this stuff that is built up inside. I think?

What kills me the most out of all of this though, is just how remorseful I am for what I've done. And he says he doesn't feel it or see it. So he doesn't feel safe, he still can't trust me. So what the hell am I supposed to do?! I feel like I a have my hands tied behind me, and if I make the wrong move, I'm a goner.

You would think after 4 years I would have this shit down! But I just keep frelling it up. Things even got so bad that he yelled at me about wanting a divorce. Then he took it back. But if he says it, then in the back of his mind he's gotta be thinking about it enough to bring it up like that, right? So now I sit here wondering about that, while I watch him. How often does he think about divorcing me?...Scares the crap out of me, cause I don't want him to go anywhere. I love him! *sigh*

Okay I'm done ranting. Sorry if it was a little much on the 'me, me, me and i, i, i'. I just had to get this out before I exploded. Let me know what you all think. What should I or shouldn't I be doing?

ChangeMe1 posted 10/23/2017 02:18 AM

SMF

I identify with your post, the lack of emotion from me is definitely causing additional strain on my BW. You comments about sitting in silence while you 'talk applies to us when my wife tells me how she is feeling, what she has gone through. When i tall it's emotionless, deadpan.

I'm in the middle of all this, one year out and heading to separation, I have no sage advice for you though I certainly feel for you.

One thing my wife said that may help, "if I don't see it on your face, hear it in your voice then how am I supposed to feel it? What is it you do that shows me?".

What could you do that would show your husband? You said you sit and watch your husband and wonder how often he thinks about divorce, have you asked? Not because you are scared but because that must be hard on him, if he is spending his life wondering if he should stay.

Could you do something for him, a gesture, plan a day just for him or something else. Let him know that you understand the strain this must be taking and want to show in the ways available to you that you care, and you want to help?

smf5175 posted 10/23/2017 04:57 AM

I have asked him if he thinks about divorce a lot, and he said he does think about it sometimes, mainly because he feels like we aren't going anywhere in our reconciliation. Plus he believes that I WILL cheat again. It's not an 'if she cheats again...' in his mind, but a 'when she cheats again...' So, even though, I talk about never doing it again, he does not believe it. It is just something that will come with time.

My BH often says those same things to me when we are talking. "I want to see the emotions on your face, and I want to feel them coming from you." I need to be more open and vulnerable, as well as being more empathetic.

And you gave me some really good ideas. Planning a day for just he and I. We haven't really had a 'date day' for just us in a long while. I'll have to do something like that really soon. Of course, our son will be disappointed, but life will go on, right?

Thank you for your response, ChangeMe.

Smf

WalkinOnEggshelz posted 10/23/2017 06:01 AM

Ok, so he is finally ready to start talking about it. Everyone heals at different paces. This is his. Acknowledge that. Let him know that you understand how painful this has been and that you are still here and willing to work through this together.

You will need to learn to initiate conversation. Don't wait for him to come to you. He is already frustrated by the time he does. When you have thoughts about the A or have been thinking about a previous conversation, let him know. Especially if you feel that conversation didn't go well. It's always ok to come back and let him know what you would have liked to have said at that time.

Right now it seems you are blaming his lack of communication early on for this dysfunction. Dig deep to figure out why you are really frustrated. Is it because you have waited so long to talk about it? Or is it because it's inconvenient to have to talk about after all of these years?

Your frustration will read impatience with him, so if that's not the case you need to take a step back and listen to your own tone and body language prior to answering him.

Root posted 10/23/2017 07:30 AM

At 3.5 years we were here. It was bad and I began to lose all hope. What I did was I stopped trying to control the outcome. Decided to focus of becoming more self sufficient. Becoming a better person for me. I was tired of jumping through all these hoops and nothing I did seemed to make anything better. He was angry so very angry.

As a result he had to essentially take ownership of his pain since clearly I couldnít make him feel better. Shortly thereafter he decided to go to IC. Specifically a sex therapist since he was struggling with my past before we even mett (she also specializes in infidelity). It wasnít a problem before but it was now. He was stuck on the whole virgin thing which was crazy since he knew I wasnít. Anyway this was a turning point for us. Heís 8 months into IC and heís doing so well that heís down to every other week.

[This message edited by Root at 7:59 AM, October 23rd (Monday)]

husband999 posted 10/23/2017 23:35 PM

I can definitely relate to what you are saying. I know after the most recent D-Day in April that I expressed nothing which frustrated my BS. Then I opened up and shared a lot more of my emotions, maybe too much as my BS felt that I was being overly self-pitying. She didn't want to see my tears or hear how everything was making me feel she needed me to show emotion about what I had done to her. So it has been a learning process. I have to be mindful to focus on what she is feeling and any feelings about shame or guilt or sadness that I am having need to be put into context of how she is feeling and what she is having to process. It isn't always easy. Sometimes I have my selfish emotions stir in me when I am feeling sad or depressed or overwhelmed. But then I remember that it is much worse for her and that she didn't ask for any of it, I did it to her. Anyways, I hope that you are able to plow through these moments and get to a better place

Sadlady14 posted 10/24/2017 01:23 AM

So sorry, smf. ((Smf))

I am in a similar situation . The roller coaster. It is fing hard.

WOES had some good advice. Also, at some point you may need to let go of the outcome as root suggested helped her. Her situation is very similar to mine. I am nearly at letting go of the outcome. I love my H but at this point,I want him to heal for himself and our kids and if the final picture doesn't include me,I know I will survive even though I am sure it will hurt like hell.

We are going back to MC soon. I just want him to be his best self. I am doing what I can but he is still very angry and honestly it is getting old. He says nothing that I do helps. He also told me if I bring up his RA ever again, he will
leave. There are also some put downs I can't take anymore. They have started to chip away at my resolve. I did tell him that and he suggested going to MC again. Sorry for the brief thread hijack there-just tying to let you know, you are not alone!!!

Also, I don't think you are fing it up, at least not significantly. :).
Betrayeds have it really bad, but being a former wayward trying to reconcile hurts like hell too. I feel like things are great one day and we are back in the pit the next.

Sending strength and healing thoughts

Story in profile.

islesguy posted 10/24/2017 08:18 AM

smf5175,

I can identify with you as well. I have always had so much guilt over showing my emotions. WTF do I have to be sad about when I am the cause of all of this turmoil. This on top of never being an empathetic person has left my BS thinking that I don't care when the reality is that I am heart broken about what she has to go through just to survive another day. It isn't that I don't have the emotions inside but showing my emotions is something that I need to get better at as I am all bottled up as well.

thatbpguy posted 10/24/2017 08:44 AM

What kills me the most out of all of this though, is just how remorseful I am for what I've done. And he says he doesn't feel it or see it. So he doesn't feel safe, he still can't trust me. So what the hell am I supposed to do?!

A few thoughts...

1. Betrayals murder people. A large part of me died when my XWW sold herself to Mr. Moneybags. I am not, nor will ever be the person I used to be. I mean this is why adultery was, and is in some countries, a capitol offense. To a certain degree, you murder your spouse and sometimes the kids as well in ways. This is important to keep in mind.

2. Now, keeping in mind #1 above, when someone has been coldly and brutally betrayed, it's hard for them to see remorse as they are hurt far worse than you can ever imagine. You simply can't. I can guarantee you with 100% certainty, a betrayer cannot fully understand so much as 10% of what a betrayed goes thru. It's an impossibility. So of course there will be issues like this. The betrayed now has a psychological, emotional and physical wound that will never heal. Never. They have to fight thru that and somehow see "positive" changes made by the betrayer and try and rebuild a sunk marriage. It's maybe one of the, if not the, single most difficult things a human can do within a relationship.

3. How can a betrayed ever feel safe again? They were safe once before with a spouse who made public vows and then made a mockery of them and laughed the whole time. Feeling safe is a train that has long since left the station on a one way trip, never to return.

4. Trust- gone forever. A fake form of trust can be set in place, but both sides know it's fake.

So this is why it is so hard to really, truly R without making R a master rug sweeping event. I understand his angst. It's totally natural.

So the questions, to me, are this.

First, can he somehow better cope with the sheer brutality of betrayal and learn to feel again? It's hard. Some can never do it. I still struggle with it. But I suspect something is going on and he is unable to move forward.

Second, is there a different tact for you? Maybe a better way to reach him you haven't considered.

Now, all this said, I get the sense he is trying to punish you similar to how you have hurt him. Often the betrayed wants the betrayer to somehow feel the pain they do on a daily basis. This will have to stop or the marriage can not continue.

Were it me, I would sit him down, admit defeat and tell you are through. Tell you destroyed him, the marriage and all and that as he cannot cope and move forward, and you simply do not know what to do, then call it quits. Once he is facing the true end, he may respond and things may get better.

I wish you well.


[This message edited by thatbpguy at 8:48 AM, October 24th (Tuesday)]

gonnabegr8 posted 10/24/2017 08:48 AM

great post BPGUY - lots in that for all of us to consider.

smf5175 posted 10/24/2017 10:20 AM

Thank you all for responding. I love knowing that I'm not alone in this frustration I feel. It's begun to bottle up inside for a while now, and I have no real outlet for it. I don't talk with my mother anymore, obviously, because she was a huge source of anger and frustration in my marriage. She had been the one I spoke with about all of my problems, my sounding board. And now that I've pretty much made a minefield of my marriage, I haven't been able to have an outlet with my friend in life, my BH. It almost feels like I'm clawing at the ledge I've fallen off of and I'm barely hanging on by a thread, ya know?

Another thing about this time...it's our affair season? Ive never really understood what that meant, until BH explained it to me. Makes me look at things in a whole new light. This month has been especially hard for him, as this past week was the time of year I had my A. And I didn't even think about or even consider it! My BH had told me off and on for most of the month that this time of the year was hard for him, and it never clicked. What kind of f'd up person am I? And then to make matters worse when he brings it up, I basically blew it off. I told him I didn't like to think about it, because it was just one more thing that would just bring negativity into an already volatile situation. That we should be thinking of happier things, not always be dragging the past to light. And I also asked him didn't he feel like dragging it up didn't give AP more power over him, that he was letting it dictate his life. I probably should've just kept my mouth shut like I always do and sat in silence. That way we would've never had such a huge blow out. I feel horrible now thinking about it. Why do we as WS think like this? It's not like I was trying to hurt him. I honestly thought that him always thinking about AP all of the time was not good for him. He's always comparing himself to him. Saying I must think he's better than BH is or that I put AP above him, all because I don't talk to him.

Thatbpguya lot of what you said really makes sense. And some of it holds true. I did murder my marriage and destroy my BH heart, and I can't even begin to process what that means for him. I try, Lord knows I do try. Just seeing and knowing the pain he's in, is hard for me to see and grasp. Plus he as much as said he does not feel safe and does not trust me. I need to learn to make him feel safe and win back his trust little by little, day by day. Right now I still think he is just so angry with me, he hasn't really left that stage yet. He still says things that are small jabs/digs that I think are intentionally done to be hurtful, but not at the same time. He says he says them to try to get me to really focus on what I am and have done, so I don't forget. I have told him all of those things you have mentioned. But I haven't said I will leave. I swore when we got back together, that no matter what happens between us, I would not be the one to leave, in any given situation. So, I'm not going anywhere. Besides that...I love the man to much. I DON'T want to leave. If anyone does the leaving, it will be him. Right now though, we are taking things day by day, because we know that we are having some problems we need to work through.

So we're talking every night right now. Taking each hurdle as they come. I'm trying to be more open to my emotions...and tamping down the negative ones. Though I did admit to him last night I was a powder keg ready to blow, and keeping it all inside was going to make it worse. But I'm trying. I know he doesn't deserve any anger or frustration on my part...He didn't ask for this. It was dropped in his lap and he was basically made to deal with it. I can endure a few bad emotions.

Thanks for listening guys!

Smf

husband999 posted 10/24/2017 23:43 PM

Bpguy, I agree that he is likely trying to punish her and your points about it being very hard for a BS to forgive or move beyond the pain are well taken. But at some point a BS does have to make a choice. It isn't healthy for either side for the BS to remain in that place of pain and anger and also try to R. If a BS ends up stuck and unable to move forward or if they feel like the WS has failed to earn their way forward in R then it is probably best for all those concnerned to recognize that the emotional and pschological requirements of the BS are not being met in order to properly faciliatate R and a serious conversation is needed as to what that means for the relationship. the reality is that some level of healing by the BS is necessary in order for a marriage to work post-affair. Regardless of whether it is the faiulre of the WS to facilitate the healing or the inability of the BS to allow for healing the end result of failed R is likely the same.

ChangeMe1 posted 10/25/2017 02:27 AM

I did admit to him last night I was a powder keg ready to blow, and keeping it all inside was going to make it worse. But I'm trying. I know he doesn't deserve any anger or frustration on my part

We are all different but maybe this is something to be mindful of. You know your husband and if keeping something locked down from him just now is best then okay but keeping it all in and locked down was part of what fed my negativity before my affair. Perhaps you need to find a way to get some of that out so your not so tightly wound.

Maybe you need something more physical as well to help let it out, you may already have it I'm not sure, but I'm thinking running or a punchbag or something that you can pour that emotion into. Help centre yourself in a healthy way?

Edited because I got mixed up about who I was responding to.

[This message edited by ChangeMe1 at 2:38 AM, October 25th, 2017 (Wednesday)]

smf5175 posted 10/25/2017 04:29 AM

ChangeMe1, you are correct in your assumption that I kept a lot of my emotions locked down tight before my affair. My BH has always had an issue with anger, and looking back a lot of it had to do with me and how I handled things. Whenever we would fight I would run to my mother, and then the fight would turn into a fight between the two of them, and it would be a whole "your not good enough for my daughter" episode. I handled things very poorly back then. My husband also handled things poorly, by getting very angry and lashing out pretty aggressively. In the end, we separated. I had a ONS/EA online and things did not go well.

I've often thought about a punching bag. It would not only benefit me but my BH as well. Maybe it would help us both in the end, to work out our frustrations. Thank your for the suggestion.

Hopeful30 posted 10/25/2017 10:08 AM

Another thing about this time...it's our affair season? Ive never really understood what that meant, until BH explained it to me. Makes me look at things in a whole new light. This month has been especially hard for him, as this past week was the time of year I had my A. And I didn't even think about or even consider it! My BH had told me off and on for most of the month that this time of the year was hard for him, and it never clicked. What kind of f'd up person am I? And then to make matters worse when he brings it up, I basically blew it off. I told him I didn't like to think about it, because it was just one more thing that would just bring negativity into an already volatile situation. That we should be thinking of happier things, not always be dragging the past to light. And I also asked him didn't he feel like dragging it up didn't give AP more power over him, that he was letting it dictate his life.

Go back and read this section again. You are FOUR years out. Your words do not correlate with someone who has done the work to understand the impact of your actions on your BH. He may be stuck because havenít really ďgotten itĒ yet.

Telling him that you didnít realize what time of year it is ďaffair seasonĒ because you donít want to think about it as itís negative is wayward thinking. He wishes he never had to think about it, but he wasnít part of that decision process.

Are you in IC to help with understanding Your why and for expressing empathy to him? This may be the piece that he is looking for from you, and his digs are because heís tired of waiting for it.

Lostinthehills posted 10/25/2017 17:27 PM

I'm sorry your hurting

When I first started seeing our M/C he said to my wife that she will never trust me again! I got pissed at that because it was exactly what I wanted her to do.My BW on the other hand agreed and totally got what he was saying. I now also understand what he said and he is right. To protect herself she will never trust me again. All I can do now is be faithful for the rest of my life by doing the things that make her being married to me makes her feel safe! I too was not being myself in order to make her (at least in my mind) be happy. I now know I cannot control how she feels or what she thinks so I don't! It's taken awhile and we are still working on it, probably always will be but I am seeing the woman that she really is...and I love what I see!

just some thoughts and if you can use them then by all means go for it...if anything it makes me feel better to just read them

Jimmy1962 posted 10/25/2017 18:13 PM

Wow! Four years later and still hurting!
I wonít be bothered or whining that long. I do not know how long I will last, but there is no way I will last 4 years! I will figure a way out before then.

crazyblindsided posted 10/25/2017 18:53 PM

thatbpguy what a great post you summed up exactly how it feels. The reality of betrayal and what it does to the M and the BS.

Sanibelredfish posted 10/25/2017 19:41 PM

On the list of things not to say to a BS (especially a BH), this has to be pretty damn close to the top:

And I also asked him didn't he feel like dragging it up didn't give AP more power over him, that he was letting it dictate his life.

I agree with the others expressing skepticism about whether or not you really get it, and at 4 years post d-day that ainít good.

2timesunfaithful posted 10/25/2017 21:37 PM

smf,
My BW and I are 3 years out, and at this point the a wayward would think the trauma wayward cause our spouses should begin to lessen, but it can come back if they see old behaviors. Perhaps more empathy that we showed in the beginning.
The guilt was palpable in the beginning. But now three years later our emotions are not as earnest as the pain our BSís
feel. Food for thought

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