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william posted 12/12/2017 11:49 AM

Once you get into the meat of this lie the next one will come out and the the next. We only kissed twice. We touched over the clothes. We had sex but stopped because it felt so wrong. We had sex twice but i hated it.

Those are the next lies you will hear if you push. She's already prepared the next fall back lies and the ones after that too. Most likely the guys are briefed already to match stories.

To get there you need to push. To get the real truth you need to push even harder. Cheating isn't new and cheaters all do more or less the same things within a few broad groupings.

[This message edited by william at 11:55 AM, December 12th (Tuesday)]

MidnightRun posted 12/12/2017 12:20 PM

Let me get this straight:

She told you, her husband, that she's doing you a favor by giving up her fuck buddy?

I wold have thrown her ass out of the house that very moment.

Justabranch posted 12/12/2017 12:25 PM

@findingjoy

What matters, the ONLY thing that matters, is that your boundaries state that you will not remain married to a woman who cheats on you and then wants to be friends with her affair partner or partners or any members of the opposite sex. That's the bottom line. And she can't argue with it. That's what you require.

PERFECT!

[This message edited by Justabranch at 12:27 PM, December 12th (Tuesday)]

annb posted 12/12/2017 12:26 PM

She wants her privacy back?

Nope. The only privacy she is entitled right now is her time in the bathroom.

Transparency is key and vital. An open book...forever.

Unfortunately, she is not remorseful at all. It's all about her, her needs, her wants.

You are doing great. Heed the advice from the members here.

Jduff posted 12/12/2017 12:28 PM

She said that she knew that I loved her but she didn't know if "I was in love with her"

Typically, the betrayed spouse is told this, the I Love You But I'm Not In Love With You (ILYBINILWY) speech. Regardless of which direction this is delivered, it comes from the mouth of someone who is confusing lust and/or limerence with "being in love". And when the wayward has uttered this idiotuc logic, odds are VERY high that sex has already occurred. That speech is yet another spin on the rationalization hamster wheel.

MidnightRun posted 12/12/2017 12:40 PM

She has already won because of the lack of consequences.

She's probably already firming up plans for the reunion, the European trip, and other perks that come from a marriage with no consequences for fucked up behavior. Hell, her makeup hasn't even been disturbed.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 12:48 PM, December 12th (Tuesday)]

LifeisCrazy posted 12/12/2017 12:53 PM

Maybe a different perspective will be of value - if only so that you see a better-rounded picture of what is happening.

Every betrayed spouse struggles immensely after dday. It's just part of the joy that is infidelity. Many here in JFO rush to make demands of the WS: complete transparency, remorse, etc. And rightly so. The WS has inflicted an immeasurable amount of pain on their spouse and the ONLY way to salvage the marriage (and sometimes your sanity) is through all the steps you are reading about on this thread. Your wife MUST come around to understanding the depth of what she has done and work incredibly hard to create boundaries that will help you to heal.

Here's the reality, though.

For most cheaters, they are totally unaware of the hell that has been unleashed. While we, the BS, would say, "How could you possible not know?" it is simply impossible to imagine the effects of one's infidelity. For example, before this was unfurled on YOU... did YOU know how bad it would hurt? I doubt it. On top of this, the WS has ZERO idea of the requirements she has before her to help you heal. They are still stuck in this weird world from pre-dday where THEY were the aggrieved party, THEY were the ones needing to step outside the marriage, THEY were the one with shitty boundaries and even shittier coping skills.

Now, all of a sudden, the rawness of what has happened is laid out in front of them. And the vast number of waywards have no idea what to do. Just because the affair was discovered does not mean that, out of the blue, your wife has earned a degree in psychology. She is still the same woman with the same crappy coping mechanisms.

So here we sit, complaining about things like trickle truth. Well, what do we expect? Do you REALLY expect someone, who isn't on SI or seeing a therapist (at least, yet) to simply look at their spouse and admit, right to his face, that they are an awful person? That may be what we WANT... but it just isn't going to happen. Yet. Do you expect for the WS to simply hand over their phone? They may still be emotionally tied to the AP and, quite simply, aren't emotionally ready to see the need. That understanding will eventually come (unless your wife is done with the marriage and this was an escape affair).

I could go on, of course, but I simply want for you to see where I'm coming from. My point is SOLELY to demonstrate that what WE want is not necessarily reality. In the vast majority of cases it takes time for a WS to "get it." There is a lot of pain between dday and reconciliation - and it is pain on both your parts (unless she is totally unremorseful in which case this crowd can definitely help you see through it). It is pain that MUST be worked through - but this can NOT happen until she recognizes the scope of her transgression.

So... for now... you apply the pressure. You let her know that things are going to change immediately and you do not feel ONE IOTA of guilt for setting your boundaries. They need to be swift and consequential. For example, the AP and male friends are gone. Simple as that. As noted above, you can explain why - but this is not a give and take. It is a boundary that you are enforcing with dissolution of your marriage being the penalty. Find your requirements and set them in stone.

Then... please consider what I have written above. If you believe that the marriage has a chance then it is imperative that GIVE it a chance. That means understanding that a spouse does not simply become a new person overnight. All of the posters here are correct in what SHOULD happen, but in my humble opinion, it's not what WILL happen. And, if you step back and look at what's happening objectively, you will see that the odds of your wife turning on a dime and discarding all of her old habits immediately is not very realistic.

Marriages can be saved in most every circumstance. YOU have to decide if you want to (always your call) and SHE needs to decide if she's up to the challenge. Then it's time to roll up the sleeves and see if both of you REALLY want it.

Good luck.

MidnightRun posted 12/12/2017 13:16 PM

You're not in full control of the situation.

Take control. Now.

Expose. Sunlight is the best disenfectant.

180, including sex.

Contact obs's. Poly. VAR.

You're whistling in the wind if you don't take charge.

Never negotiate with an issue as serious as infidelity. You're doing neither yourself nor ww a favor. Infidelity must be excised, root and branch--whether through REAL R or D.

She's concerned with saving face, and keeping her rep intact. That's like putting a bandaid on a gaping wound.


[This message edited by MidnightRun at 1:24 PM, December 12th (Tuesday)]

Dismayed2012 posted 12/12/2017 13:49 PM

Sorry to hear about your situation Mustang.

You've got a real issue on your hands in that your cheating wife won't admit what she's done or what she's doing. There is no remorse and no reconciliation without admission. You've got to bring her to the point that she has no choice but to blurt out the truth and throw herself on your and your son's mercy. She has to be made fully accountable for her choices.

The only way to accomplish this at this point is to see a good men's divorce lawyer and have her served. The reality of divorce will show her that you're serious and she needs to come squeaky clean right now. If you don't force immediate and harsh consequences on her, it's going to happen again.

Don't live your life in limbo. Don't be manipulated with tears and sex. Take charge and dictate what is and isn't acceptable. You set the conditions and you establish the rules. It's your choice as to how your life will unfold.

Mustang69 posted 12/12/2017 14:12 PM

I have set some boundaries. I have told her to cut off all contact with the 2 men which she has as far as I have been able to verify. If she contacts them I am filing for divorce, she understand this.

I have told her that her cell phone and computer are 100% open to my inspections at any time I choose. She has complied with this request, begrudgingly at times, but I don't care.

She knows that I am pissed about her lying about the hotel room for the 4 day weekend. We have not resolved this issue at all.

I need to address the reunion issue, I have told her that if she goes I am going with the intent of meeting both men, she doesn't like that but I don't care what she likes or doesn't like. I agree with the comments above that the reunion in 1-1/2 years is probably off anyway for her just haven't got that far.

I have monitored her spending to make sure she isn't skimming any funds from the check book and I am strongly considering opening a separate checking account.

She is definitely on notice and she knows I am watching every move that I can.

I am going to insist she put Life 360 on her phone so I can track her location. I am also considering of monitoring her car and computer as well without her knowing.

I am a type A personality and I am going to follow most of the suggestions offered, just learning what to do and how to act. I am preparing myself for a possible divorce although reconciliation is still a possibility. Here are my current options that I'm considering:

1. Divorce
2. Reconciliation
3. Wait and watch, then make a decision based on her action or inaction.

She is not remorseful based on the information provided on this forum. she is only regretful for her bad decisions.

PeaceLily210 posted 12/12/2017 14:24 PM

Like everyone else, I'm so sorry you find yourself here, yet I'm glad you found us.

So... for now... you apply the pressure. You let her know that things are going to change immediately and you do not feel ONE IOTA of guilt for setting your boundaries. They need to be swift and consequential. For example, the AP and male friends are gone. Simple as that. As noted above, you can explain why - but this is not a give and take. It is a boundary that you are enforcing with dissolution of your marriage being the penalty. Find your requirements and set them in stone.

Then... please consider what I have written above. If you believe that the marriage has a chance then it is imperative that GIVE it a chance. That means understanding that a spouse does not simply become a new person overnight. All of the posters here are correct in what SHOULD happen, but in my humble opinion, it's not what WILL happen. And, if you step back and look at what's happening objectively, you will see that the odds of your wife turning on a dime and discarding all of her old habits immediately is not very realistic.

Marriages can be saved in most every circumstance. YOU have to decide if you want to (always your call) and SHE needs to decide if she's up to the challenge. Then it's time to roll up the sleeves and see if both of you REALLY want it.


LifeisCrazy has some great points here. When someone is dealing with selfish wayward behaviors that are ingrained in them, they don't just change overnight. That doesn't mean that you have to tolerate being disrespected in the meantime.

Definitely set your boundaries, practice the 180. (I say practice because it's something I had to work at. It didn't come natural to my former co-dependent nature) Let her know exactly what your expectations are. (Make a list if need be. It helped me)

If she wants to save this M she MUST get herself into IC and begin to learn who she is, and why she did this. To us it seems obvious - she liked the attention (You'll see that referenced as "Ego Kibbles" here) and she was only thinking of herself.
It would also help if she read "Not Just Friends" and "How to help your spouse heal form your affair". That second book will be harder to get her to read if she's not admitting to the A yet. I'd still add it to the list of things you require.

Keep reading and posting here. The understanding, support, and advice here is pure gold.

I wish you the very best.

MidnightRun posted 12/12/2017 14:32 PM

Notify obs, immediately.

Poly, immediately.

VAR, immediately.

Monitoring her devices? No big deal for cheaters. Burner phones come cheap.

Mustang69 posted 12/12/2017 14:42 PM

Even though it might be obvious I have been the dominate one in our relationship maybe to a fault and too much of a Type "A" at work even, but that is my competitive nature. Once I found out about these affairs I was initially shocked and took back, but over the course of the 24 hours after I found out I read a lot on the internet and remained calm and was very firm with her. There has only been one occasion that I raised my voice and yelled at her, (which was over the 4 night hotel discovery). since the beginning I wrote down a lot of notes and crossed checked her stories and called her out on the lies.

This HB sex thing has been fun as I have been the dominate one and she has been submissive, I have almost done everything I wanted to do and have enjoyed it, more things to come on that.

I have read the 180 and figuring out my strategy to implement this 180 plan, it seems very powerful and I like that.

It is funny to go back and think of all the clues and things that have been said since March. One was flowers, she always had grocery store flowers in her office but then over the spring & summer I remember her getting big, expensive & nice flowers maybe 5 times and she said that they were from her aqua jog class or from her sister.....little did I know

Mustang69 posted 12/12/2017 14:44 PM

Midnightrun - what is VAR?

MidnightRun posted 12/12/2017 14:46 PM

Regarding the reunion: Why would you want to meet a guy who fucked your wife, or another who WANTED to fuck your wife?

If she was remoresful, attending the reunion would be the last thing on her mind. Keeping her husband would top her list.

1survivor posted 12/12/2017 14:48 PM

Mustang , probably one of the most important things you can do is inform the OBSs . It is the best way to kill the affair , and it is the right thing to do for these spouses. The worst thing I can think of is being involved in a relationship where the spouse is oblivious to the betrayal thats going on behind their back. You do this without telling your wife otherwise she will just give them a heads up. In my case it was a way to get to much of the truth since the ability to tell the truth seemed to leave my wife for a short period of time. The OBS and I were able to compare notes and peace everything together.

[This message edited by 1survivor at 2:49 PM, December 12th (Tuesday)]

beenthereinco posted 12/12/2017 14:50 PM

what is VAR

Voice Activated Recorder. A lot of people tape them under the seat of their Wayward Spouse's car and find out all kinds of things. You can attach them with velcro. Make sure they don't have lights showing or making any noises. You can get one at Best Buy for not too much.

MickeyBill2016 posted 12/12/2017 15:05 PM

Tell her she can keep her friends but not as your wife.

Is she is on gmail?

Many people don't know this but the mail that you trash or delete go to another file and are not really gone for the most part.
Go to the left side and scroll to More > All Mail and trashed items, spam, and junk will be there. You may find some more info.

Does she have a burner phone to keep the phone she shows you clean? Look for another phone in her cars, the garage, etc.

Triathalon in Europe with her "friend" - who else will be going?

And yes, you need to go to the reunion, if you are still together at that time.

[This message edited by MickeyBill2016 at 3:10 PM, December 12th (Tuesday)]

badmemory posted 12/12/2017 15:19 PM

This HB sex thing has been fun as I have been the dominate one and she has been submissive, I have almost done everything I wanted to do and have enjoyed it, more things to come on that.

I'm sure you did enjoy it, and your wife was glad to offer up the sex distract you; in hopes she could avoid consequences. But it wasn't HB, it was MB - Manipulated Bonding. You're letting your penis control your actions and putting the cart before the horse. A huge mistake newly betrayed husbands often make.

She knows that I am pissed about her lying about the hotel room for the 4 day weekend. We have not resolved this issue at all.

Until you do, until she tells you everything you need to know - you shouldn't touch her and you shouldn't talk to her.

She's beating you.

[This message edited by badmemory at 4:22 PM, December 12th (Tuesday)]

Tron posted 12/12/2017 15:26 PM

Your W seems to be living the life of luxury, no responsibilities, frequent vacations, some d!ck on the side and a schmuck to fund it all.

You are being duped.

It is past time to get to the bottom of the relationships with these 2 OMs, get the real story and change the dynamic.

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