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A little bit of my story

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Sharkman posted 2/12/2018 12:49 PM

He wasnít in the middle of a divorce. He was married, but separated and he and his wife were going to marriage counseling together to work on their marriage. Why was I angry? I thought he loved me. I thought I was special. And I found out in a very emotional and shocking way (from his wife on the phone when my husband called her) that he was married, had lied to me, was working on his marriage, had multiple affairs, that I was just another slut to him, and that I ruined my life for him. I was angry at him and felt sorry for myself and scared of my husband.
What actions are you referring to that ďstrongly suggestĒ I was planning on leaving my husband? The first time I broke NC I called my AP to tell him my husband found out about us and that it was over. He thought it was a good thing that my husband knew so we could live together from now on. I thought he was crazy! I had no intention of leaving my husband or my children and told him that. By the way, my husband asked me to take a polygraph test which I did. One of the questions was about whether I ever had intention of leaving him. I answered no and I passed. I wasnít lying.

This is what you need to address. Compartmentalized cheaters very rarely "plan". But what happens is exactly what happened - first friendship, then EA then PA. It's a pattern of escalation. You may have not acutely planned on leaving your husband, but the pattern was that that is where it was headed.

My observation from reading these posts is that this has not been properly addressed. If I were your husband this would sure as hell keep me from healing. I can either sit here and give you virtual hugs or challenge the fact that recovery stalled and almost ended up in divorce three years in.

Look at it this way, you've both probably gone though 100k in counseling and hundreds of hours of discussion. You've ostensibly done everything right. If you've done everything right and the problems still exist then in my experience the answer is that you were not trying to solve the right problem.

Sharkman, I have a question for you if you donít mind (Iíve answered every one of yours so Iíd appreciate the same courtesy). Can you point to one WW that you consider remorseful and that her husband shouldnít divorce her? Iím specifically asking about women, not men. And Deeply Scared (God rest her soul) doesnít count. Too easy. Thanks!

My most recent favorite is Lonely Husband 42301's wife on the (no soliciting). It's an amazing recovery story. Nononsense was a former poster here who I used to follow closely before joining. He's probably the local example of whose wife did it right. If you want to a see a converse of someone who made up his mind definitively and did things "the right way", ohforanewme is one guy who I've referred to to many, many people.

You could be one of them, I'm not positive of it yet, though. Like I said, you're three years into a recovery and have a husband who still isn't onboard, so I'm not sure what the problem is. It's intellectually interesting to me given we now have so much data to work with on both sides, a rare insight that we get here.

With that said, with infidelity (the second worst form of spousal abuse known to man) it's also our obligation as advisers to see the betrayed to safety. That is the paramount action that drives my involvement here. It's really a quite wonderful opportunity - we all have the power to quite literally help thousands upon thousands of men and women currently being abused by their spouses. It's a very powerful and incredible use of this new medium.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:56 PM, February 12th (Monday)]

DaddyDom posted 2/12/2018 13:51 PM

Hi MrsWalloped,

From one WS to another, thank you for posting and for being so open and honest, and willing to address questions. I've been on SI for about 15 months now, and in that time, I've found that SI is a wonderful tool, not only for support, but to have people ask questions that I never would have thought to ask myself, or that I did ask myself but sometimes it helps to defend/explain your thoughts and feelings so that you know "why" you think that way, and know it's not some passing, unsubstantiated thought.

You and I have a lot in common in terms of digging for our "why's", our extreme FOO situations, and the ways in which we thought during the A. For example, this quote from you:

That Iíd be a better wife and mother as a result because my being positive was sure to rub of on everybody in my real life.

I was just trying to explain this exact thinking (almost the exact wording) process to my wife the other night. Once the affair is over and we pull head's out of our butts, this seems as crazy to us as it does to everyone else, the hard part is trying to put it in context for someone who hasn't been there. It is not as if I didn't know what I was doing at the time was wrong, it was just that my view of the world at the time was so very skewed, so dependent on needing someone else to fill that emptiness inside of me that I couldn't fill myself, that my mind made up justifications for everything. "If only I was happier, everyone else would be happier too. I'd stop being so miserable and be happy, and then everyone and everything would be happy." Ugh, I have such nightmares about the thoughts I had during that time.

In any event, I just want to welcome you to SI. I hope you find some support and like-minded people here. Keep reading Brene Brown (She's amazing, isn't she?) and working on your FOO.

(((hugs)))

ruinedmylove posted 2/12/2018 14:48 PM

Wow. I havenít made it all the way through all the pages here, but I just wanted to say that I can relate to so much of what you have written. Unfortunately, I donít seem to have the ability to put onto ďpaperĒ my thoughts and feelings as effectively as you. At least, they have not been received the same way. I hope my BH has read this and can recognize me and my feelings in some of the things you have written. Granted, I have said so many of the same things out loud to him and in texts....I hope and pray that you and your BH can rebuild and repair your relationship and one day be happy. Best wishes to you and your family.

MrsWalloped posted 2/12/2018 14:54 PM

Hi sassylee,

You take the cards life dealt you and make the best of your hand...no matter the situation.

And some of us didnít, which is why Iím here. At least now Iím trying to do that with the situation I created. And my husband is with the hand I dealt him. Itís not easy and thereís a lot of pain. But as we tell our children, not dealing with things is making a choice too.

destroyed1 posted 2/12/2018 14:55 PM


Dear MrsWalloped,

Thank you very much for taking the time to offer an answer to my questions. You are probably right, i guess there will never be an answer that I will understand.

I just cant see how accepting fake compliments lead to ruining lives that have been spent together for decades.

Why wasn't it important enough to stop you?

Anyway, your story matches what my WW has told me in regards to the compliments. "went to her head" next thing you know she spreading her legs. I just dont get it. Never will.


Since you answered my questions so graciously, I would like to offer to answer any questions that you may have from a BH. As you can read my sig, long term M and children involved.


Thanks again

MrsWalloped posted 2/12/2018 15:06 PM

Sharkman,

If you've done everything right and the problems still exist then in my experience the answer is that you were not trying to solve the right problem.

I strongly disagree. I could do anything and everything and push him to have sex with the entire Cirque du Soleil acrobat team and cater to his every whim, cook his favorite meal, dress only in sexy lingerie, give him a BJ after breakfast, lunch and dinner every day and he could still choose to divorce me. Iíve seen it said here, and his and my therapist each told us, sometimes an affair is simply a deal breaker. I donít think the fact that heís still struggling means Iím not addressing the right problems. It might be like you said, but itís not a certainty as you make it out to be. Heís going through his own issues regarding Accpetance and Forgiveness of both me and himself. Thereís only so much I can do to help him there and even then it may just not be enough.

Morph posted 2/12/2018 15:09 PM

Hi MrsW, I am a BW who had my DDay just after yours, so Wallopedís posts are very much a part of my journey. I appreciate the time he took to write because I didnít have the time or eloquence so it was so helpful to me to follow someone elseís path. Like you, my marriage was good before DDay and my WH immediately did a lot right. Thank you for coming and answering questions. My WH used to post more, and I think he was helpful to BS and WS.

I also wanted to say that as someone who is almost exactly as far out from DDay, I think that you are on the right track. I saw one poster suggest that Walloped was ďbehindĒ in his healing. I donít know, but I donít think youíre behind. I still (always?) struggle with the injustice. I mourn my old marriage. Having a good marriage before DDay makes it harder and easier to accept. I am a strong person, but strength to forgive and accept is different and hard. I know I have the strength to leave but Iím digging deeper than I ever wanted or thought I could. Iíve always had great respect for people who could forgive the unforgivable or accept the unacceptable. They are literally saints, but Iím just me. I donít know if I have the strength but it is a daily struggle although some days are easier, almost ďnormalĒ. I suspect I will always need to summon strength to stay, and I donít know if that means itís a dealbreaker. I wish you both well.

Sanibelredfish posted 2/12/2018 15:25 PM

Mrs. W., your endurance for answering questions is notable, but Iím glad to see you taking a break too.

One thing Iíve noticed is a bit of a negative vibe in your replies (including your most recent) that deal primarily with how W is currently processing the A. Is this based on letting go of the outcome or is it something else? Perhaps I am off on the negativity, but I thought Iíd mention it.

Also, have you talked about acceptance in the broader context of both him and you? Obviously, I believe heís accepted you had an A, but can he accept that heíd stay with a partner that had an A? I believe that this is where his high standards for himself and others may be problematic for R. What work is he doing to get to his truth on that question?

MrsWalloped posted 2/12/2018 15:43 PM

Yes. There probably is. Itís probably due to my natural aversion to criticism and bristling at some of the questions. I donít mind gettting questions. I didnít post to just say something and not get responses. But you can kind of tell when someone is asking a question because theyíre interested in your story, or are trying to apply it to their situation, or are simply curious versus those that are attacks or projections of pain disguised as questions. I understand them and I need to do a better job of not letting them affect me.

sassylee posted 2/12/2018 16:49 PM

Iím curious about the statement that wallop is behind in his healing. What does ďbehindĒ look like? Itís commonly stated that healing takes 2-5years. By what yard stick is this being measured?

Is there progress MrsW? Is walloped better than year one and two? I think as long as there is overarching progress over time - then youre right on course. I thought I was finally as healed as I could be in year 4. And here I am in year 5 - even better than I ever dreamed possible. But right up until the 4 year mark, I would have dark days where I thought of divorcing. Sometimes the pain feels never ending...and then a good day, conversation, a productive event happens and all things seem possible again.

Going back to my comment about life being unfair...horrible things happen to us in life - but we go on...we cant undo it so we learn to find a way to live with it. We find a way to weave the event into the fabric of our timeline and attempt to do better and be better.

MrsW - i would suggest you choose which questions you choose to answer more selectively. If the question is constructive and a true attempt at understanding then answer it if you wish. The others? Ignore. Thats the beauty of this site. You take what you need and leave the rest.

BlueIris posted 2/12/2018 17:01 PM

I tip my hat to you, figuratively speaking, MrsW, for patiently replying and answering so many questions. I do remember reading your husband's JFO thread, although I'm not sure I ever read all of it (and I'm not going back to look, lol). But everything I have read leads me to believe that he's a heckuva guy, and that means you must be one very special lady. I'm glad you're here to share your story and some of the things you've learned about your whys, and things you've done for W in an effort to help heal and reconcile.

I wasn't going to comment and add to the load of questions on your thread, but I do have a question (or two...ish?) to ask, mostly because I think it's been one of our (my WH's and my) more recent challenges and I am wondering how another remorseful and fully committed WS might handle the scenario.

Some of your answers here were surely painful to admit to W, and even more painful for him to hear. What I want to know is, when he asked something - for the first time, or a repeat/variation of a previously asked question, and it's one of those especially painful truths, how did/do you answer him? Matter-of-factly? Do you hold him? Apologize? How does one show empathy while delivering something you know will cut so deeply?

It is often said here that a WS lacks empathy. What is your take on that? For someone who has been so deeply harmed by your own FOO, is it something you've had to work on? Or is it...I don't know, maybe part of the compartmentalization that seems to be part of the WS SOP?

You can probably read between the lines, so I hope it's okay that I've asked. I am also wondering if you ever brought up things you remembered without being asked - either to correct a minimization or lie by omission, or even just something you'd remembered that hadn't been addressed before.

I know you feel somewhat ambivalent about the positive strokes people are giving you, but I hope you know how much your forthrightness will help others now and whenever this thread comes up.

I'm so sorry for the losses and the hurts you've experienced, both when you were a child and again as a parent. I know all too well that once there you've mentally added your expected baby (babies) into your heart and future, losing them so soon is an ache all its own. (((MrsW)))

I hope you will continue to come here and share your hard-won wisdom, although I know some days it is so hard to bear witness to all of the pain here. I have found, though, that sometimes, even amongst all of the hurts we share here, that we do begin to smile and laugh and grow and feel and eventually, heal. To you and to the many veteran fWSs who come here to learn, and to counsel, guide, and advise, I say thank you. Welcome to SI, MrsW.

idiotic posted 2/12/2018 17:48 PM

MrsWalloped,

Let me start by commending you on being able to share so candidly, I understand how much shame must be overcome in order to share these dark details.

I have yet to be able to share this way with my BS in person or on SI and I know this inability is a driving force in preventing our R.

The powerful response by so many SI members as well as my BS personal thoughts on your words have given me a sense of confidence to dig deeper into the work needed to give my BS peace and safety in our "future marriage." I thank you for this.

Now if you had asked me before then if Iíd ever consider cheating my answer would be just a no way, but a hell no! I used to look down on cheaters. I couldnít understand them. To be one myself? Thatís a whole other part of my therapy.

Your comments above are so familiar...they could have been written by me. I too was a strong..("stand on a soap box") advocate for loyalty and I despised cheaters. This might be part of the struggle for me to own my shit..because I can't handle seeing myself as what I classified for years as a "scumbag."
I see the level of LOVE my BS continues to show me despite who I have shown her I am and feel so much associated shame that I can not foresee her ever viewing me as anything other than this Scumbag. I am in the pool of people that I wouldn't give a minutes attention to understand previously and now my wife and our life depends on that intelligence! WTF?!! Our therapists will retire off off this stupidity!


it wasnít a need for external validation from other men, it was a need for validation from anyone and everyone. My husband, my children, my friends, strangers. My AP was just there and the type to see me for what I was (easy prey to him) and I figured out quickly how to get more of it from him.

Like you Validation was valued by me from anyone who would give it....I could ride for days on one positive comment or compliment from a friend or coworker. Especially if that someone was a person I held in high regard...a boss or someone I respected or admired as a person or performer. I could go back into my "movie clip mind" and replay that praise over and over...Ironically my ability to do this now with details of the A does not come so easy. Like your AP, mine was a opportunist, she was sitting in the front row of my work life and preyed on an easy target. I too learned how to leverage this attention to my so called advantage. What a joke...

I have a ton of work to do and really appreciate your contribution as it gives me hope that I can do this successfully and help my wife and our family heal from the damage that I have caused.

harrybrown posted 2/12/2018 19:17 PM

Your IC is correct for many this infidelity is a deal breaker. this abuse should be for many.

It sounds like it is for you.

I was hurt by my wife, but I was hurt even more when it happened to my son. think about someone doing this to your son.

I do not think letting walloped watch his choice of tv shows will help with the real problems of forgetting him and having sex so many times with the OM.

You talked about your boys. Just imagine someone doing this to one of your sons. that makes it real. I thought I was upset before, but doing this to my son sent me thru the roof.

She told him about a work party. No he did not catch her in the act, but he went to the work party. She and her coworker were the only 2 at the work party. she was sitting on his lap in a public place with little kids around making out in public.

what really hurts a man is the betrayal, the lies, the sex, chosing someone else over and over again, because you want to have sex with them and not your H. Yes the affair sex was good.

She denied just like my wife did over and over.
he was left with debts, but I helped him pay them off.
He is now in his 30s, and does not trust women.
just like some women do not trust men. Yes he did get hurt playing football on the line in high school. He is a big guy.

He has spent years wallowing in dispair. I am not an attorney, but I filled out the paperwork for him to get a D and away from his source of pain. His football coach said he was the nicest guy. He would knock somebody over and check on them after the play was over.

but her cheating gave him so much more pain than the pain when he broke his foot. It has ruined his life. He is drifting aimlessly.

I do not wish this kind of pain on your son or anyone's son or daughter, not even Grandma Wallop's son.

Hope your family has better days ahead.

MrsWalloped posted 2/12/2018 19:30 PM

Hi onlytime,

I do have a few more based on your responses...

A few??? Actually, I really appreciate your questions.

This is an update after I wrote a whole bunch of stuff. Itís sounds so weird to me what I wrote. Iím trying to put more than two years of therapy into words in short paragraphs and I think I did a horrible job. I couldnít be anywhere as detailed as you were. Where do you get the energy? I was exhausted just reading your questions. So I probably ga e your questions short shrift. Iím sorry. Iím not avoiding them, but youíre basically asking me to detail everything Iíve worked through in more than two years. I just canít. I canít. Iím sorry. Anyway I almost deleted all my answers and was going to just ignore your questions but I didnít want to do that because it would have been rude. So Iím going to leave it for you to read. I hope itís what you were looking for. Please know that your questions were pointed and constructive and get at the heart of everything I have been dealing with about myself and my husband and what I continue to work on.

I was really hoping that you would have expanded more on the specific ways in which your continued sense of worthlessness impacts Walloped on a personal level as well as the specific ways in which it impacts your relationship with him. Have you asked Walloped how it impacts him and how he feels it affects the relationship between the two of you?

Well, thereís BA and AA (before and after the affair), and AA is a mess if Iím honest. I mean that my A overshadows everything and seems to be always part of the discussion. Iím not saying it shouldnít be. But itís hard to separate our relationship progress and struggles between our issues from the affair versus parts of our personalities and characteristics that we need to work on. It all gets jumbled together. How does it impact him? I want to be close to him and for him to love me but I donít feel Iím worthy of his love so I end up holding myself back from really expressing myself out of fear of rejection. That inhibits closeness and affection. It is something I literally force myself to do to counter my inclination and fear but itís not the same as what I really want. I donít share as much as I should. I am more timid. I discount his affection as not being authentic. As I said, the A really messes this up. He wants to R with me and he wants me to feel good about myself but when he tries to do that for me through compliments or gestures of appreciation I tell myself he canít mean it because how could he when I betrayed him like I did, so I donít accept his overtures which pushes him away and he gets frustrated and lonely. Yes, we talk about it. Itís part of why we went to MC for so long. So it happens and then we talk it through, but it happens.

Can I just say that I know I did a horrible thing and hurt him terribly, but he wasnít a saint after DDay. I donít blame him at all for anything he said or did because I deserved it and he was in such pain, but he was so angry and heíd say things and call me a whore and tell me Iíd end up alone with no self respect and my children wouldnít love me. That I threw away everything that mattered in life. And he didnít touch me sexually for months after DDay. He didnít want me to touch him either. No hysterical bonding for us. I know he was in pain. I know how much I hurt him. But for someone like me, his actions after DDay just exacerbated those feelings I already had. I had nothing but my thoughts and his pain and our tears. My only salvation was my children. And even then when I told my girls I lost them too for a time. So all my negative thoughts about myself were just amplified. I donít know why Iím saying this. Short answer is that primarily it affects our ability to be close to each other.

If you are bottling things up inside how does that equate to truly opening up? How is that vulnerable or authentic? Can you describe what happens when you "explode" - what does that look like? How does that impact Walloped and your children when that happens? If you are taking things personally and are not able to handle criticism do Walloped and your children feel as though they have to walk on eggshells around you?

I donít bottle things up all the time. But I still do keep things to myself. And when I said heís the only one Iíve ever opened to, I meant it. Iíve told him things nobody knows about me. My childhood, my mother, private things. Weíve been together for so long. He knows me like no one else and Iíve made myself very vulnerable with him. But thereís disappointments and slights and hurts and many times I keep that to myself. And then something small will happen or heíll say something I donít like and Iíll blow it out of proportion and then it becomes a drama. On rarer occasions Iíll take it out on the children. How does it impact them? They hate it, the kids think that Iím in one of my moods and tune me out, my husband gets frustrated with me and because this one things was so small he doesnít understand why I made such a big deal about it and he gets upset at me for getting upset and that just reinforces what I knew all along about me. And then Iím in our room crying and hating myself for doing what I just did and eventually I come out apologizing to everyone and telling them I love them and I want them to tell me itís okay and they love me too. Sometimes they walk on eggshells, itís true. But not nearly close to all the time. These are things that happen. They are not a daily occurrence or something even close to it.
Are you familiar with patterns of limited thinking/cognitive distortions? If so, which ones contribute to your sense of worthlessness? Which ones contribute to the storyline you tell yourself about ypurself and others? Which ones impact your relationships with Walloped, your kids, and others in your life? What work are you doing to address and challenge them when you see them arise? If you are not familiar with them, do you feel this would be a helpful thing for you to explore further?

Yes I am familiar with them. For me, itís polarized thinking and filtering (disqualify the positive) with a little bit of mind reading, but only as it applies to me. Concerning my relationship with others, throw in personalization and emotional reasoning. Iíve spent time with my therapist on cognitive behavior therapy. Off the top of my head weíve gone through restructuring, challenging negative and irrational thoughts, thought logs, and reframing core beliefs.
It sounds like you harboured a great deal of resentment towards Walloped which you fed and built up with your internal dialogue about your worthlessness and the patterns of limited thinking I referred to above. Would you agree with that assessment? If so, have you explored your attitudes and expectations and how they contributed to you building up those resentments?
For example, if you look at the part of your response that I bolded, were you ever specifically asked by Walloped or your daughter to "take care of everything"? Did either of them specifically tell you it needed to be "perfect"? Or was that a projection of your own attitudes and expectations?

Totally my own projection, but it was based on real life. I mean I always took care of things. I was perfect or as perfect as could be. Of course they never told me it had to be that way but I knew that was the expectation because thatís just how I did things and they were used to me doing things that way. I do agree with your assessment. I did have a lot of resentment but it was tied to me feeling lonely and abandoned.
Earlier in this thread you said in response to another poster's questions I gave him 5 children. Iíve been with him and supported him emotionally and took care of him for most of my life. I helped him through graduate school. I raised our family. These kinds of statements and attitudes are what resentments and attitudes of entitlement are built upon as well...Do you really believe it was just you that raised your family - that Walloped did not contribute to raising them with you at all?

All of these questions are based off of my above statement. No, I donít feel that way at all. I was a SAHM and I did nearly all of the family things but really I was just responding to a poster who asked if my husband divorced me ďwould I give him favorable financial terms? Would I ask for alimony? Would I make sure my husband isnít punished financially for my choices?Ē The presumption in those questions are that somehow we were not equal partners in a 23 year marriage and that since I did the bad thing to possibly cause a divorce my husband deserves ďhisĒ money and it would be selfish of me to ask for anything in return. I was responding in kind. Thatís all.
I also asked you "What exactly are the tools and mechanisms you have now? In what ways are they effective for you?" to which you responded that you engage in positive affirmations. How long have you been doing them? Do you feel that they have been effective in changing your sense of worthlessness? How so? Does doing them feel authentic to you?
Do you ever sit with your negative thoughts, lean into them and explore them more deeply? Do you get curious about why they are arising? About what triggered them? About their validity? Do you look at how you feed them with your perceptions? Are you able to have a more balanced, less black and white, view of them or do you engage in always/never thinking?

Short answer is yes, please see above about CBT. Iíve been focusing on this in particular for about a year or so. I do think Iíve made a lot of progress but itís something I actively focus on and work on and Iím not always successful. Sometimes it doesnít feel authentic but thatís okay. The point is to change my thought processes. I have worksheets where I fillin my natural thought and then the new thought. Same with emotional responses and behaviors. So itís supposed to feel weird to me because itís all about changing how I naturally think and make connections into healthier ones.
I see that a number of people have complimented you on this thread, how has that impacted you? Is it giving you that sense of approval? How much do you think that need for approval is keeping you from talking about your issues and asking for help? What is the worst thing you think would happen to you if you were vulnerable and opened yourself up to criticism? Do you see any value and potential for growth in vulnerability and opening yourself up to criticism?

Itís weird. Iím getting complimented for something which is so strange to me, and I donít really know why. And the funny (or sad) thing is that it still makes me feel good. Iím really not looking for approval in this forum. Iím very conscious of that and check myself on it. I lurked for two months before I registered and posted. I discussed it with my husband and we agreed that taking this in baby steps would be best for me (he was more concerned about harsh posters). It didnít quite work out that way though. In a way I have talked about my issues but not in the way thought I would. I do have questions and advice Iím looking for. And Iíll ask them when I feel ready to. Iím not worried people will disapprove of me, Iím already the bad one in my story. How much worse can it get than having sex with another man? Yes, thereís tons of value in making myself vulnerable and being open to constructive criticism. That doesnít make it easy to do or accept though.

MrsWalloped posted 2/12/2018 20:20 PM

sassylee,

Is there progress MrsW? Is walloped better than year one and two?

There is. And he is. This is a very long journey and Iíve told him I wonít quit working on myself. Even if our M doesnít survive, Iíve learned so much about myself that for me at least I donít intend to stop the work Iím doing. Besides my husband, my children need me to be the best me I can become. I need me to be that person too.
MrsW - i would suggest you choose which questions you choose to answer more selectively. You take what you need and leave the rest.

Thatís really good advice. Thank you.

nicenomore posted 2/12/2018 20:24 PM

Mrs. W -just want to add that that I donít advocate you being put out on the street s homeless... married with kids for years is a lot different than newly married young and not well off yet (my situation). I only meant that if you did divorce, you would give your H favorable terms (not take more than you need, in light of the failed M being your fault), that wouldnít financially cause hardship for him for years to come.

Sorry if it came of as saying you deserve nothin at all, it was meant to mean favorable to him out of kindness from you

Sharkman posted 2/13/2018 09:57 AM

I strongly disagree. I could do anything and everything and push him to have sex with the entire Cirque du Soleil acrobat team and cater to his every whim, cook his favorite meal, dress only in sexy lingerie, give him a BJ after breakfast, lunch and dinner every day and he could still choose to divorce me. Iíve seen it said here, and his and my therapist each told us, sometimes an affair is simply a deal breaker. I donít think the fact that heís still struggling means Iím not addressing the right problems. It might be like you said, but itís not a certainty as you make it out to be. Heís going through his own issues regarding Accpetance and Forgiveness of both me and himself. Thereís only so much I can do to help him there and even then it may just not be enough.

Well I'm certainly not going to try to trump what the therapist says and do think it's really good that you guys are both receiving therapy.

You seem to be very sure that you are addressing the right problems. I'm going to disagree with you there as well (just trying to help). You propose that he should be working on forgiveness. Many couples have successfully been reconciled without forgiveness. Why should he? You said yourself that you are not 100% sure you could never cheat again... should he forgive? Some people can, some people can't. He may be the type that can't forgive, which at that point the goalpost has been moved.

Let's take that logically a step further. If he can't forgive then where does that lead you? You're working on the establishment of a new relationship where one person knows the other person but the other is flying blind. It's a very large difference than working the forgiveness route which assumes two in sync partners.

I'm babbling. If your husband fell out of love with you the instant that he discovered that he was the victim of infidelity then how do you create the groundwork from forgiveness? Is he out there flapping in the wind trying to fit a bunch of circle pegs into square holes?

He may not be, you are probably right, but (with all due respect) I think that it is negligent to his needs to not as a full universe of questions. Three years after infidelity seems like a rather significant milestone where one can stop and ask these questions.

(I do hope you're taking these questions with the good spirit that they are intended)

onlytime posted 2/13/2018 12:20 PM

I think it was good that you didn't just ignore the questions, and yes a "few" turned into many, which tends to be a habit of mine.

The intention of the questions I asked was not to have you detail what you've done in your two years of therapy, it was more to get a better sense of your situation, where your mindset is currently at, and to encourage you to reflect more deeply on the things you've brought up in your posts.

I have some observations from your responses that I'd like to share and I hope you will take constructively rather than defensively.

When asked about the impacts on Walloped and your children your responses did not convey a true understanding of how your actions and behaviours affect them at a deep, emotional level, and more than once you talked more about the impact on yourself than on them. This is reflective of a lack of true empathy.

Can I just say that I know I did a horrible thing and hurt him terribly, but he wasnít a saint after DDay. I donít blame him at all for anything he said or did because I deserved it and he was in such pain, but he was so angry and heíd say things and call me a whore and tell me Iíd end up alone with no self respect and my children wouldnít love me. That I threw away everything that mattered in life. And he didnít touch me sexually for months after DDay. He didnít want me to touch him either. No hysterical bonding for us. I know he was in pain. I know how much I hurt him. But for someone like me, his actions after DDay just exacerbated those feelings I already had. I had nothing but my thoughts and his pain and our tears. My only salvation was my children. And even then when I told my girls I lost them too for a time. So all my negative thoughts about myself were just amplified

If you reflect on your response that I have quoted above do you think it conveys empathy or accountability? Can you see how you use the word "but" in your statements to minimize, blameshift, invalidate Walloped's pain and make yourself out to be a victim instead?

How do you think you can change that?

sassylee posted 2/13/2018 12:35 PM

Onlytime - I'd like you to be my therapist....if you're taking patients...

MrsWalloped posted 2/13/2018 14:26 PM

Onlytime,

I went back and read your questions and my responses. Youíre right. My answers donít show much empathy. I didnít interpret your questions as a question about empathy. I took it as asking about how my personal issues affect our relationship from my perspective.

as well as the specific ways in which it impacts your relationship with him.

I spent a long time going through dialogue with my therapist and then with my husband about how what I did and what my issues are makes him feel. I was telling you how my issues impact my relationship with him from my point of view. Not the other way around. Maybe I answered the wrong question.
If you reflect on your response that I have quoted above do you think it conveys empathy or accountability?

No, I donít. It wasnít meant to.
Can you see how you use the word "but" in your statements to minimize, blameshift, invalidate Walloped's pain and make yourself out to be a victim instead?

No. Not minimize, blame shift or invalidate his pain. Not at all. Partly some victimization. Again, I was focusing on how my issues affect my relationship with him from my perspective. I was trying to say that my affair piles issues on top of the ones I already have. And while he is justified in how he reacted to what I did that doesnít mean it didnít have any effect on me or that the effect it did have wasnít negative. It sounds horrible for me to say this but I never heard him talk or yell the way he did to me for months. Of course I understand why and I donít blame him for it. If the situation were reversed I probably would have done worse and tried to scratch his eyes out and gone all Lorena Bobbit on him. Iím not a machine. My having an affair does not mean I no longer have feelings or that things people I love and trust say and do donít have an impact on me. For months I took what he said and how he acted because felt I deserved it, I thought it was punishment, and he was in so much pain he could lash out at me. I wanted him to lash out at me and yell at me. And it took me a long time to crawl out of the hole I placed myself deeper in. I believed all those things heíd say and I told myself he was being kind. Iíd say worse and go through a downward spiral of internal dialogue that would feed off how heíd act or what heíd say to me.

I gave my answer in the context of how it affected our relationship. It hurt it. He wasnít concerned about our relationship or my well being at the time because he was contemplating divorce and from his point of view, I divorced him by having an affair. So there was no relationship. There was a period some time later where he started letting go of some of his anger and I was working on my self esteem and self worth where we talked about building a relationship and what was helpful and whatís harmful and he agreed that this kind of talk was hurtful and not conducive to us staying together. I had to be taught to have a firm conversation with my husband that I was due some level of respect too. I needed to get healthy and being told what a whore I was and what a monster I was and a horrible mother was making things worse, not better. I understood why heíd say it, I didnít blame him. In fact I agreed with him. But I knew it wasnít good for either of us. Iím sorry but I donít see saying so as minimizing or blame shifting or invalidating his pain. This is just an outcome and consequence of my actions. Our relationship got screwed up even worse because I had an affair. This is just one way how.

I understand why you asked these questions. I tried hard not to be defensive because I really donít want to close myself off from things I need to hear. I just gave you my point of view.

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