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I'm not sure what to do with this?

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heartbroken_kk posted 8/7/2018 12:08 PM

This reminds me of my first husband, due to the porn and prostitute addiction. Absolutely could not stop. It progressed and got worse actually, that's when the fetishes started. Also a fake public persona of morality.

It's interesting to think about your M as a marriage of convenience. Also, when you think about it, you are in a nearly sexless relationship and could be in a 100% sexless relationship if you wanted to keep the M and just strive for harmony and peace until your child is grown.

So think about what you are doing to yourself by following up on this.

1. You are getting the facts. The facts may be useful in shaming or blackmailing your WH, but you've said you don't want to really do this. Also, it will not get him to stop what he is doing. If he's a sex addict, it really will never stop. He will find a way to continue to get his fix.

2. You are establishing that he is cheating on you, which you could use as grounds for divorce. But, you aren't sure divorce is in your best interest because of the benefits of being married to him.

3. You've said you don't want to remarry because of your age (50 is young, so hush about that, c'mon), but you also want a loving relationship. Well, if he's getting kinky stuff at the massage parlor, do you want to provide that to him as his wife? Really, if you imagine what he's doing, is this attractive to you? You can't control him and you can't change him. If this is his thing, it's his and he owns it and it's up to him to figure out what to do with it. For a sex addict, continuing the sex is probably way more important than continuing the marriage.

Here's what I suggest. Get more information, but just enough to figure out what you are really dealing with. A PI might be warranted. Most likely what he's doing is porn watching and self pleasuring and then once in a while going to the prostitute for "the real thing".

Then, consider very very carefully what you want in life given what you know.

If you want to keep the M, but have it be a sexless M where he gets his pleasure elsewhere, that is an OK choice for you. Even if you only want the M for a few more years until your child is out of school.

If you feel like the maid, maybe hire a housekeeper. Do some other things to make your home life more comfortable and happy for you and get some of your resentments handled better. I suggest also getting into therapy so you can have someone help you adapt to this new life and help you navigate what to do with your life in the next few years.

And finally, consider being honest with your WH. Tell him what you know, tell him your plan for the immediate future (no sex with him, some changes to the household so you don't feel like his maid). You don't have to reveal your long term plan or even know what it is. If you are OK not having sex with him, you don't have to tell him you will go outside the M for it. And don't do that if it's against your values. An open M is a valid choice but not everyone can live with that. You can let him be him and you be you (faithful, or allow yourself to consider other romantic relationships outside the M.)

Whatever you do, strive to not harm yourself, your child's education, OR your WH if you want to stay M. If you just can't stand this and decide that divorce is your choice, make sure it's a strategic choice that makes logical sense and not just an emotional one. Note that it's logical to divorce him if what he's doing makes you so disgusted and repulsed that you can't be happy around him any more. If you can turn the other way and say "I don't need to know what he's doing because I'm just not going to have sex with him anymore" that can help you not be so turned off that you can't stay M.

Keep posting and let us know how you are doing. We are here for you.

heartbroken_kk posted 8/7/2018 12:15 PM

Also one other thing. Prostitution is not the same as human trafficking. Some women freely choose this as a profession. You don't know the background of this parlor, it could be all consensual, and most likely is. You could ask your WH to find out more to make sure that his actions are in line with his values.

Hopefully his desires are not oriented towards children. If they are, and children are involved of course you will have to go to the police.

Robert22205https posted 8/7/2018 13:46 PM

I agree entirely with Heartbroken ... especially about telling your WH that you know what he's up to (i.e., after you can prove it).

Why? Because it sounds like he's arrogant, verbally abusive, and disrespectful to you - and that needs to change (for your sake as well as for proper role modeling to your kids).

I suggest IC immediately in order to decide whether you want to stay in this relationship.


IdiotMe posted 8/7/2018 20:42 PM

Well, I spoke with my husband today. I'm not really sure where to start as this was probably the longest and the most "normal" conversation we've ever had. This is the first time (I think probably ever) that he didn't get up and run or storm out the room playing the victim and trying to avoid talking.

I started out by asking him if he hated me. He said "No, of course not". So then I asked "If you don't hate me, then why am I constantly disregarded?' And he said of course he has no idea what I'm talking about. So I told him....

"You don't give two shits about me. I'm not your first or even last thought in a day because you don't think about me at all unless there's something you want. You have no consideration for me at all."

AND THEN...he has the nerve to say....WELL YOU HAVE NO DISREGARD FOR ME EITHER....YOU ACTUALLY ACCUSE ME OF LYING and I DON"T LIE".

And I calmly and cool-ly said, (Thanks to you guys)...That's because you are lying. And then he starts blabbering about how horrible I am, berated me again, and wants to know what is it that I think he's lying about. So I told him. I said, I know where you were on Saturday night. And I really appreciate the long, drawn out detailed story about where you went for dinner and all the details about your conversations. (He had said he was with a man from work that he hadn't seen in awhile.). And I REALLY loved it when I asked him where he was and he lied again and told me he was on a street near our house when I knew he was 30 miles away, and then I REALLY LOVED it when he called me and all indignant and angry that I would ACCUSE HIM of lying about anything. Twice he did that.

And then he started to lie again. And I stopped him and said. "John, you need to give it up. I KNOW where you were. Just be a decent person and STOP sitting here lying to my face. Tell the truth. I know......, so you've got nothing to lose at this point. " So he confessed. Sort of (of course)

He said, he was in _______, and he went to eat dinner and then decide to "get a shoulder massage" because he is so stressed that he can hardly move his shoulders. And of course I said "John, you HATE massages, and I know what that place is. Everyone does. You were F***** prostitutes." And then of course he says he didn't. Blah, blah, blah, and I said...."There is NOTHING you can say that will make me believe you. You've lied to me repeatedly every day since Saturday, you tried to make me think I was crazy for questioning you, and I don't give a S**t what excuses you are going to try and give me, in my eyes, you were f****** hookers and you are not just a liar, but a cheater.

And then he stops in his tracks and says "WELL DO YOU WANT A DIVORCE?" And he fully expected me to say no and I said "I don't know yet, I'm still thinking about it. But yes, that's one of my options right now". I asked him if he did and he said that sometimes he thinks it might be a good thing and I said "well we're on the same page then because I feel the same way. I pretty much saw the blood drain out of his face at that point. He was visibly shaken up. I'll come back to this conversation though later...

So then I asked him..."Why don't you want to have sex with me?" And he said it's mostly because he's so stressed out at work and that he's too tired, worn out and mentally drained to bother. There was more dialog but nothing important. So I said, "You said MOSTLY, so what's the other reason?" And he said, "Well, when I do finally start to destress, then you start in on me". And I said "I start in on you....about what? I barely see you". And this is his answer...."I don't like it when you ask me what I want for dinner. I don't like menu planning".

I kid you not. That was his BIG COMPLAINT the fact that I ask him what he might like for me to make for him for dinner. And I said "Ok, what else?" And he said," you change the radio station without asking". And I wanted to respond that "OMFG, IT"S MY CAR AND I'LL LISTEN TO WHATEVER I WANT IN MY OWN CAR"... (Because goodness knows I don't ride in his car and never in my life have I changed the station in his car.....but I shut up and thought for a second and said..."So you are lying and f****** prostitutes because you hate your current job and I ask you what you want for dinner and change the radio station?"

And YEP, that was it! I am making his home life miserable because I ask to make him a meal and want to listen to my own radio station in my own car. I'm still shaking my head over this nonsense. Seriously.

I'll come back and fill you in on more later.

Stevesn posted 8/7/2018 23:26 PM

Omg what a load of crap. I’m so sorry you are dealing with this.

Truth is he finds it exciting to sleep with lots of different prostitutes and they don’t give him responsibilities. And he doesn’t want to give that up.

He doesn’t deserve you. He’s not a man that respects you. And he definitely doesn’t cherish you.

You did great confronting. Keep it up.

ibonnie posted 8/7/2018 23:34 PM

"I don't like it when you ask me what I want for dinner. I don't like menu planning".

I kid you not. That was his BIG COMPLAINT the fact that I ask him what he might like for me to make for him for dinner. And I said "Ok, what else?" And he said," you change the radio station without asking".

Rewriting marital history -- it's in the cheater's handbook. WS focuses on minor things, building them up in their own heads over time. They convince themselves over and over that things are SoOoOo horrible, poor them. The distance between you two is insurmountable! You, BS, just don't let up! Today you asked me if I wanted macaroni. Tomorrow the radio station will be set to country! My BS just doesn't understand me. Poor me! Etc. Etc.

It's like when I had an 8-months-old at home that didn't sleep through the night, refused to take a bottle, and no one wanted to babysit because she cried. All. The. Time.

Suddenly I stopped wanting to go out and have fun with my WS. I was too focused on the kids. AP "understood" my poor, lonely WS. So while I was at home and struggling with two little kids, he was "busy working OT" -- which really meant spending money we didn't have to go to hotels with a coworker.

Of course I wanted to go out. But I was exhausted and had a high maintenance baby that literally no one (including grandparents) wanted to babysit. Oh, and my WS was checked out so I was really alone.

The bones your WS has to pick with you? Utter bullshit. Not even cartilage. But it's a lot easier for him to live with himself if he justifies and rationalizes his bad behavior somehow. :

heartbroken_kk posted 8/7/2018 23:35 PM

OK, so blameshifting much? It's all your fault, right. He's gonna project all of his behaviors onto you and blame you for not wanting sex, for having no sex drive, hmm, what else, oh yeah, you DRIVE him to watch porn because, uh, you're boring, demanding, disrespectful, and yadda yadda.

There's probably more that you don't know. Maybe he's gay? Does he do drugs? Is he cheating at work, embezzling money?

You'll probably want to run a credit report and look for accounts he's opened up that you don't know about.

The mind wanders.

IdiotMe posted 8/8/2018 09:32 AM

Ok, well yesterday after our conversation, my husband had this sudden burst of energy, happiness, and interest in me. I loved it, but I know it's all fake. He's behaving how he thinks I want him to behave. That's all.

During our conversation, I told him that I'm going to see the therapist to talk about this and he should do the same regarding his depression. A large percentage of the conversation yesterday was about HIM. It's always about HIM. And I brought that fact to his attention as well. He harped on and on about how unhappy with work, it's so stressful, he can't take it anymore and he's trying to get out of where he currently works and back to the place he used to work. I know he wants me to feel sorry for him. (He's always begging for sympathy and wants me to know how miserable life is for him) So I reminded him that he hated that place he used to work too and that he hates everyplace he's ever worked as long as I've known him. He's NEVER happy anywhere and maybe it's not the place but him. I told him he's a miserable, negative, and DISMAL, most of the time and he needs to do something about it because not only have I had enough of it, it's rubbing off on our child.

So, I suggested again that he see the therapist. He said he didn't find it at all helpful the last time he saw him so no, he's really not interested. (Typical response...and the therapist is fantastic BTW) So I said, ok, then is there someone else you have in mind to see? And as expected, he said no. He doesn't want to talk about it. So I said, what is it then that we are going to do to repair this relationship because there are some serious problems here that need to be addressed. If you don't want a divorce how are we going to change the current dynamic? And his response was....that we need to concentrate on expanding, remodeling and making our house (my house that was willed to me by my parents on a lake) amazing for retirement. That it would be cathartic for us to do together.

I just sat there dumbfounded. We have 20 year old carpet in our regular house because he won't commit to doing any remodeling because he can't buy anything that's not top of the line, overly expensive, commercial grade carpet. He's so OCD, that he refuses to buy anything that's not 3 times the normal price and I'm sorry, but I'm not paying $50,000 for carpet when I don't even want carpet but I want hardwoods. So, we get nothing because if I don't agree to what he wants, nothing will ever happen.

So I bring this up to him. We can't even change a lightbulb without him being miserable over it not being up to his HIGH STANDARDS so how in the hell would a remodeling project help our marriage in anyway? He said it would give him something important to think about and it would make me happy.

He's so out of touch with reality. And his thoughts are so black and white and simplistic. If you only knew how intelligent of a person he is. He's truly Sheldon smart (or smarter) yet he thinks remodeling a house is what will "make me happy". SMDH.

Oh, and I should tell you that yesterday about 2 hours after our conversation he puked twice, spent most of the evening in the restroom. I think the reality of his position right now is truly setting in. I also woke up in the middle of the night to see him playing games on his phone. (He didn't know I was awake). I know this sounds petty, but it gave me satisfaction that he's suffering a bit. I haven't slept more than a couple of hours since Saturday while I watched him snore like a log, happy as a clam, lying his ass off to me and all his indignation of being accused of LYING. He needs a reality check and I think I gave him one.

I have more to the conversation to share but I've got to get busy for awhile.

IdiotMe posted 8/8/2018 09:34 AM

I also again wanted to thank you all for your comments, suggestions, and really just taking the time to talk to me. It means a lot to me and I wish I knew how to use the quote feature so I could respond to you individually and to your suggestions and comments. I think it must be a premium feature that I don't have access to.

Anyway, THANK YOU! The words I read here have helped me beyond belief and are pretty much the only things that keep me together.

Stevesn posted 8/8/2018 10:43 AM

IdiotMe (hate calling you that btw)

Just copy and paste the quote into the box. Then highlight it and click the “quote” button to the left of the box.

Hope that helps.

Kintsugi posted 8/8/2018 11:35 AM

I WILL NOT tell him about the location tracker. HELL NO! I know the first thing he would do is shut it off. As long as that's on, I can keep tabs on him.

I get this and the other opinions on it, I really really do. For a long time I thought I made the mistake of telling the XWW that I had put a tracking device on her car. There were some tumultuous moments where she demanded it be taken off, looked for it, and even eventually found it. It was a real cat and mouse for a while. But in retrospect, it was all very valuable information that made the decision to D all the simpler. If they know the method is there, and they demand and demand it be removed, then, this tells you something, because as we know, those with nothing to hide, hide nothing.

There is a time and place for everything. Maybe not right away, but maybe, if you think you get to the point where there is an element of stability, or whatever place you might get to where maybe it might be a " good" way to gauge the sincerity and remorse, tell him how you found out, and set your criteria for staying in clear terms and maybe let him remove it. Then, maybe put a GPS device on his car, something different than the phone, and see what happens. For certain, get your ducks in a row in the mean time.

Good luck!

Shocked123 posted 8/8/2018 12:00 PM

Idiotme,
He is the idiot, not you. Sorry you feel that way about yourself.
I have lived your exact situation for years. I did not know it.
Less and less sex as the years went on, I noticed difficulty with erections for the past 10 years but never said much because I did not want to embarass him. He was a good father, or so I thought and just didn't want to complain about a very sad sex life. Felt I should be happy with everything else.
LITTLE DID I KNOW....
He had been going to massage parlours in Asia and then in our home town for over 10 years.
Chances are your husband has not just recently picked up this nasty and dirty habit of paying for sexual favours.
Verify his location tracker to see how many visits in the past. The history keeps for 6 weeks I believe. Verify if he is going to the same locaiton over and over.
Verify his cell phone bill. Chances are he's calling ahead to make an appointment because if he has been going a while he has found a whore who knows him and gives him what he likes. They often end up with the same person over and over.
If you find a phone number that appears frequently, call it confidentially. You will know when they answer if this is a massage parlour or not.
How do you know it's a parlour? This could also be a woman's home, perhaps he is having an affair with a non-paid whore?
I am so sorry you are living this and read your story with much empathy. Please let us know what we can do for you.
I know you say you have a marriage of convenience but that's only because he made it that way. I am sure you miss the loving man you married. He somehow lost his way.
I hope that you can both find your way back to a happy place one day.
I am trying very hard to reconcile with my husband.

chinaandback posted 8/8/2018 18:48 PM

Hi, I'm sorry to hear about the state of your marriage. I've read through your replies and saw that you spoke to your husband, which may be a step in the right direction. I understand not wanting to divorce and that is your choice so I think talking to him was a good idea. Also happy to see you are seeing a therapist. Is your husband also? If you were in agreement and worked together, your marriage could be good. Maybe not like it was, but perhaps you could have a whole new relationship. You're not an idiot and you don't sound like a spiteful, vengeful person, at all, so there is hope! I'm not sure I you were seeing a marriage counselor, but there are also some different types of programs online that you could do, to strengthen your relationship, if that's what you want, and to put an end to the lying.

IdiotMe posted 8/9/2018 08:58 AM

Here's what I suggest. Get more information, but just enough to figure out what you are really dealing with. A PI might be warranted. Most likely what he's doing is porn watching and self pleasuring and then once in a while going to the prostitute for "the real thing".

This honestly is my guess about what is going on.

IdiotMe posted 8/9/2018 09:11 AM

Hopefully his desires are not oriented towards children. If they are, and children are involved of course you will have to go to the police.

No. I've seen the porn he watches before he started being more sneaky and it's just basic porn with lots of giggling asian women with breast implants who act like the d*** in front of them is a giant chili dog and they haven't ate in 20 years and the man it's attached to is a greek god.

IdiotMe posted 8/9/2018 09:34 AM

Rewriting marital history -- it's in the cheater's handbook. WS focuses on minor things, building them up in their own heads over time. They convince themselves over and over that things are SoOoOo horrible, poor them. The distance between you two is insurmountable! You, BS, just don't let up! Today you asked me if I wanted macaroni. Tomorrow the radio station will be set to country! My BS just doesn't understand me. Poor me! Etc. Etc.

Yes, this sounds like him. I truly do not bother him and have zero expectations of him. I've learned that he is self-involved so I don't even bother asking him for anything. If I need something done around the house, I do it myself or I hire someone because he thinks his role outside of work is to "recover" from work and MY roll is to take care of the needs of EVERYONE and EVERYTHING so no one bothers him. He doesn't even drive when he's off work if I'm going to the same place. He likes me chauffeuring him around and he even has his unconscious OCD rules in his mind where he has to be the last person in the car. He will not get in unless we are all in already. He doesn't even answer the phone at home. He will let it ring until I pick it up because he is "important" and is recovering from all his hard, stressful work!

When we were having our conversation two days ago, I said that I feel like nothing more than his "house manager" and his response was....get this...."Isn't that the job you applied for?". And I sat there for a minute and then dead faced and said "I've never submitted my resume to you because being a "wife" isn't a career. I manage to continue my career part-time in addition to managing your entire life while you seem incapable of doing neither". He just sat there like a dumbass.

IdiotMe posted 8/9/2018 09:34 AM

Just copy and paste the quote into the box. Then highlight it and click the “quote” button to the left of the box.

Hope that helps.

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! I would have never figured that out. :)

PeaceLily210 posted 8/9/2018 09:44 AM

He's so out of touch with reality. And his thoughts are so black and white and simplistic. If you only knew how intelligent of a person he is. He's truly Sheldon smart (or smarter) yet he thinks remodeling a house is what will "make me happy". SMDH.

Is there a chance he is undiagnosed Asperger's Syndrome? This would NEVER excuse the cheating and lying, NOT AT ALL. It would however explain why he sees things so severely black and white, and cannot communicate in a manner that makes sense to the rest of us.

Many of my clients have Asperger's and it's a very unique diagnosis. The black and white yet simplistic view, while having an extremely high IQ is very common.

he even has his unconscious OCD rules in his mind where he has to be the last person in the car.

YUP, it really does sound like AS.

Again, it does not excuse or explain the lying and cheating at all. But it would make it more critical to get him into IC with a therapist who understands Asperger's.

All that being said, I want to tell you that you are doing a fabulous job in dealing with this. I know how hard it is to face that you don't really know the man you have been married to for 2 decades.

IdiotMe posted 8/9/2018 09:50 AM

Why? Because it sounds like he's arrogant, verbally abusive, and disrespectful to you - and that needs to change (for your sake as well as for proper role modeling to your kids).

Yes, this is him. He's not exactly verbally abusive as he doesn't even talk for the most part. He's arrogant, disrespectful, and I don't even exist unless there's something I can do for him. He doesn't even acknowledge me when he enters a room, enters or leaves the house, etc. Oh, and if I speak to him, I'm always made to feel as if I'm interrupting him and speaking to me is an inconvenience.

And he even wants a gourmet dinner but it causes him overwhelming stress if I so much as ask him what he wants to eat.

Sorry, to complain and whine. I'm just now coming to the realization I think of how used and neglected I've been and I'm angry at myself (and him) for how I've allowed myself to be treated.

IdiotMe posted 8/9/2018 10:15 AM

PeaceLily210
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Default Posted: 9:44 AM, August 9th (Thursday), 2018 View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage
He's so out of touch with reality. And his thoughts are so black and white and simplistic. If you only knew how intelligent of a person he is. He's truly Sheldon smart (or smarter) yet he thinks remodeling a house is what will "make me happy". SMDH.
Is there a chance he is undiagnosed Asperger's Syndrome? This would NEVER excuse the cheating and lying, NOT AT ALL. It would however explain why he sees things so severely black and white, and cannot communicate in a manner that makes sense to the rest of us.

Many of my clients have Asperger's and it's a very unique diagnosis. The black and white yet simplistic view, while having an extremely high IQ is very common.

he even has his unconscious OCD rules in his mind where he has to be the last person in the car.
YUP, it really does sound like AS.

Again, it does not excuse or explain the lying and cheating at all. But it would make it more critical to get him into IC with a therapist who understands Asperger's.

All that being said, I want to tell you that you are doing a fabulous job in dealing with this. I know how hard it is to face that you don't really know the man you have been married to for 2 decades.

You nailed it.

Yes, he does. When I made him go to the therapist (He's actually a psychiatrist) about 15 years ago, the therapist told me (in a private session) that he does have Aspergers. He did a neuropsych eval, plus he talked to my husband for quite a few sessions and that's was his diagnosis. I've never spoke of it to anyone. Not even my husband. I've always wondered if the doctor told my husband his conclusions as that was a question I forgot to ask and I'm going to ask when I see him again. It's been a few years and I know my husband has great respect for this man even though he claimed the man was "incompetent" when I discussed him seeing him again.

And yes, the unconscious OCD as well. The therapist talked about that too as I shared that with him as well because it's so weird.

When you say clients, I'm wondering if you are a therapist? And if you are, do you have any idea what I'm supposed to do? I'm going to go back to the therapist and see if he has ideas of how to get my husband to go...but shame is a huge factor here. I think my husband is ashamed of his behavior as he has very high expectations of himself and he knows he crossed the line. Facing a man he respects and talking about his shitty behavior will be really hard for him.

And it bothers me that he shows no remorse (he shows little emotions) so I asked him yesterday if he is even remorseful as he doesn't seem to be. He said he was and I asked if he was remorseful for his actions or the fact that he was caught and he seems shocked by that question and said he was very remorseful. Before that he was irritated that I brought the subject up and I reminded him that I am 50% responsible for our marriage but HE is 100% responsible for f****** prostitutes and I'm going to want to talk about this. I think he understood that actually. But it bothers him as in his mind, it's been addressed. I told him it might be addressed every day for the next 6 months because it's going to take awhile for me to get over this, if ever, so if he's not up for repeated discussion, he should let me know so we can go our separate directions.

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