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ramius posted 12/26/2018 19:41 PM

For instance a lot of guys think Mary Ann was way hotter than Ginger if you're old enough to get that reference

Those pig tails and halter top....dam. The girl next door. Mary Ann any day.

twisted posted 12/27/2018 09:35 AM

For instance a lot of guys think Mary Ann was way hotter than Ginger if you're old enough to get that reference
Those pig tails and halter top....dam. The girl next door. Mary Ann any day.

I agree completely. Mary Ann might get freaky on occasion, but Ginger can never be the girl next door.
Not to t/j, but I don't think most women see men the same way like that. I've known too many women that aren't happy without some sort of soap opera going on their lives. Just when they have met the right guy or everything is going wonderful, they go out of their way to screw it up with chaos.
I don't suppose I'll will ever understand that.

hatefulnow posted 12/27/2018 09:51 AM

Thanks again, guys. Bro hugs all around!

Yeah, we're struggling right now. I think LivingWithPain hit it spot on. My wife has always been the stereotypical 'good girl' which is what attracted me initially. Strict Catholic upbringing. Looking back, she seemed quite genuine and down to earth.

(Duplicitous much?)

She never gave me like I saw her giving him and not because I didn't try. I'd suggest things and she'd be very uncomfortable. I'd try to 'take charge' and I could feel the resistance and hesitation. Sex was good and I (think) I usually satisfied her, but there was always the hold-back.

Like others, I really objectified her, initially. She was my 'bitch' to do with as I would. We've discussed this post DDay. I felt she 'owed' me. She acquiesced (thank you Catholic guilt), but after a little while seemed really into it. Really putting in the work and I 'knew' she was getting...satisfaction. But, it was a performance piece, not unlike what went down with POSOM. The difference was he really didn't give a crap about her and told her so, which seemed to compel her to go harder (her words). I actually care about her, and while I enjoy the sex...a lot...and she seems to also...a lot...I want her to just want me, not because she has a duty or owes me or is trying to impress me, but because it gives her pleasure.

She never turns me down and because of this latest drama chases me, terrified I'll leave or hurt myself or something. She'd even initiate, but looking back it was like bare minimum stuff. I could almost time it. If I didn't want sex, no problem. If I couldn't perform, no problem. It was like pulling into the drive thru. Place your order, pay your money, take your food and have a nice day...NEXT! The therapist thinks she may have some blocks, from childhood. Apparently, her grand mother caught her masturbating and punished her badly. Not sexual abuse, per se, but really authoritarian discipline. Sounds plausible. I'm grasping at straws, putting on a brave and stern face, while my world burns.


To her credit, she is a great mom. Very conscientious and dedicated, but (aside from this crap) never made me feel 2nd place to the kids. I guess I need to raise my standards and expectations, ya think?

I try to focus on the good things. But it's hard. Harder now, for some reason, than when I first found out. Gonna take a lot more therapy...years. And as suggested, remarriage is 'totally' off the table. Post Nuptual...MY ASS! Judges can throw those things out and have done so on whatever whim or pretext they pull out of their ass.

Ramius, I do remember. My wife is Mary Ann. A voluptuous, albeit somewhat prudish Mary Ann. Never wore the booty shorts for me before (did for him...PRICK...BURN...BUUURRRRNNNN). But she's my wife so I've seen everything. We'll have to keep working on it and TRY to enjoy the holidays.

You guys try to enjoy them, too.

DomesticTourist posted 12/27/2018 10:04 AM

Mary Ann was way hotter than Ginger.

Fixed that for you.

LivingWithPain posted 12/27/2018 12:17 PM

Thing is hateful now, your WW cannot undo what she did. Sort of like murder. You can't un-kill someone.

And no amount of hot monkey sex is ever going to fix it. That reality is the shit sandwich we all must choose to eat if we are to give our WSs another chance.

There is no fixing it or equalizing it. You will never get exactly what he got, and you have to decide if you can live with that. Can you?

ramius posted 12/27/2018 13:19 PM

I actually care about her, and while I enjoy the sex...a lot...and she seems to also...a lot...I want her to just want me, not because she has a duty or owes me or is trying to impress me, but because it gives her pleasure.

It has been said that you cannot negotiate genuine desire. You want her to want you, with the same verve and enthusiasm she did with the PRICK.

The part that is hard to swallow is that she will never be able to do that. You are viewed differently than the PRICK. She may be attracted to you. But she was aroused by him.

Her play acting it now is, IMO, ordinary everyday solipsism. Try to preserve what she has.

She admitted she settled for you. Your niceness and provision. You were a good long term hold. Like a Coke Cola stock. But, as evidenced by her cheating, she still misses the crazy dot.com days.

LivingWithPain is spot on.

There is no fixing it or equalizing it. You will never get exactly what he got, and you have to decide if you can live with that. Can you?

[This message edited by ramius at 1:20 PM, December 27th (Thursday)]

hatefulnow posted 12/27/2018 17:22 PM

LivingWithPain and ramius,

I'm gonna have to. It's just hard to rationalize. Hard to think. She, and the kids now know, that remarriage is off the table, for now. Maybe forever. That disappoints my kids most of all. While the current living situation works, it's not ideal for them. I said, jokingly at the start, if they ever get tired of either of us or of each other they could spend time at the other home. That didn't go over too well, especially for my youngest who is enamored with her mom. (I guess I'll never get that comedy gig now, lol). They'd like us all together in one place. I'm just not ready.

I get that he gave her the 'hot and tinglies', but it's that 'settled' verbiage that's sticking in my craw. I asked her point blank, if she could do it again, as a young woman, and he wanted to marry her as much as I did, loved her as much as I did and was willing to sacrifice as much as I was, would she still choose me. She hesitated, (which answered my question)but said it wasn't a fair question because she would have been thinking as a much younger woman, still very much the child, and wouldn't be able to answer it fairly. She said she's here now in the here and now and isn't going anywhere.

She also said that knowing what she knows now, seeing how I managed to hold things together, even though we divorced, how I treated her decently, all things considered (almost 30 years of betrayal) and still could even look at her, let alone touch or love her proves I do love her.

OM, when outed to his wife and reserve commander, threw her straight under the bus. No hesitation at all! When she tried to talk to him, before no contact had been established, he smacked her around a bit, which even though I was angry at her, infuriated me. I still get heated thinking about it. It took an intervention from a cousin and a few close friends to stop me from going to get him. I'm no physical match for him, at least I wasn't then, (maybe now) but I do have an assortment of 'force multipliers', aka guns. After I cooled down, with my friends not leaving my side for the better part of a day, we had OM arrested. I know revenge is often unproductive, but DAMN, it felt good!

Anyway, I know I can't change the past and have to count my blessings, which are many, but I feel like one of those salmon swimming upstream, dodging bears, just trying to get some. And all I want is peace. Thanks for listening guys. Gratitude!

ramius posted 12/27/2018 17:33 PM

Since remarriage is off the table, are you open to dating someone new?

Skadu posted 12/27/2018 19:36 PM

[This message edited by Skadu at 9:00 PM, December 27th (Thursday)]

rambler posted 12/27/2018 20:34 PM

Kind of reminds me of the song Two out of three ain't bad.

You wife's answers are always how much you love her not how much she loves you.

After 30 years you need to be loved.

The guy never loved her and ever slapped her around and that is her answer.

She wants you, she needs you but there ain't no way she ever going to love you.

Don't be sad because you are already divorced.

Please find out what is like to be loved.

Decorum posted 12/27/2018 21:40 PM

Did you just lower your cannon and shoot a hole in your own boat?

"If I can not have everything I want than I will throw away the very best I can ever expect to have."

Do you really think if you pitch this relationship you will be one of those guys who comes back with one of those ultimate win updates?

Do you think you will come back and say how it was the best thing you ever did, that now you have the best lookng woman who adores you, and endless nights of squirts and gasams?

People change, your wife has likely changed.

99% of everyone settles (the other 1% are in denial). Make "YOUR" best deal, it does not matter if it is hers.

You are chasing after some wiring in you brain that you inherited from a lizard and a lion.

Good luck with that.

[This message edited by Decorum at 9:48 PM, December 27th (Thursday)]

ramius posted 12/27/2018 23:51 PM

Did you just lower your cannon and shoot a hole in your own boat?
"If I can not have everything I want than I will throw away the very best I can ever expect to have."

Isn’t this what his wife did with her decades long affair?

pureheartkit posted 12/28/2018 01:01 AM

Not before but now I do now.

This is the modern dilemma. People try many partners before marriage. The most exciting may not be good for stability or family. No one has it all. Thats unrealistic. Staying and wishing you had someone or something else is a waste of time.

Be grateful for the good in the other person or move on. But if you cast away a good person who loves you and then realize you cant get everything you want dont be angry about your choice.


I would be glad for your wifes honesty. If she wanted someone else, she be out trying to find them. I dont think its good for her to keep hoping. If youre not going to remarry her, let her go find someone who will make her happy.

RocketRaccoon posted 12/28/2018 04:09 AM

Hatefulnow, from reading your posts, could it be that your XWW could be a Sub?

From your description of her relationship with her AP, he was the Dom and she was his Sub/Slave, which weirdly ties in with the Catholic faith of guilt and service.

hatefulnow posted 12/28/2018 09:38 AM

I'm baaaack! Thanks for your replies. Every little bit helps. Gratitude. I'm not going anywhere. I may or may not be that 'alpha' she pines over. I don't really care. I've got to make my best deal now, like someone suggested. I've recently started reading about 'love'. Apparently, to some, men and women love differently. The love she seems to have for me is transactional. I'm a good Beta (aka - sucker)and would move heaven and earth for my family. OM wouldn't have. Total solipsist. Couldn't find decency if it bit him in the ass.

I have to focus on what I have now. My XWW never read any books. Too embarrassed she said. Now she's pouring through 'Not Just Friends' and she's got 'How to help your Spouse...on Kindle) She's trying to show she's all in.

It's the best I can hope for right now.

NotTheManIwas posted 12/28/2018 10:13 AM

Hey, man, just curious. Earlier in the thread, LivingWithPain posted this:

"I've talked about this before (to some people's disgust)that the way I eventually got past the sexual hang-ups was to just objectify my wife when we had sex and just use her for my pleasure. So that's what I did. I tossed her around the bed and used her like my whore and didn't even try to get her off. I didn't really care. Imagine my surprise when she came back and told me it was the best sex we ever had."

Would this not work/satisfy you? I mean, you can't ever have what the other guy had. It's the nature of relationships that none are ever the exact same because the players change. However, speaking for myself, if I thought that I had something different from the OM that wasn't less than, and in fact, superior in that she catered to my selfishness (which, if I'm being straight, has come hard for me), fawned over my sense of self bordering on arrogance, and thereby giving an affirmative nod my primal male, I think I could live just fine with that version of 'settled on.'

Just sayin'

BluesPower posted 12/28/2018 10:49 AM

BS ONLY

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:08 PM, February 8th (Friday)]

Reece posted 12/28/2018 22:49 PM

I know my wife is happy on our marriage in most ways (we have reconciled) but I also know she feels like she ‘settled’ in some ways that are key for her including her sex life. Which is ironic because when we first met she was very conservative, inexperienced and the farthest thing in the world from someone who I would suspect of infidelity.

I believe that someone else described themselves like this here online and I’m afraid I that would also have to admit that I am a classic ‘beta’ male in most aspects of my life. This certainly is consistent to my physical traits and my history/performance in the bedroom. My wife’s affair partner was the opposite of this/me. He was never someone she would choose for a life partner but apparently he was what she desired sexually. It’s definitely been a long wrong to recover fro our reconciliation.
Reece

Krieger posted 12/30/2018 16:13 PM

Many women like the bad boy, until they get one and then they aren't as much fun. Had they lived together, he would have been gone as soon as she got pregnant and then she would have been in a mess.

I have to caution you not to ask questions when you don't want the answer. Would she have chosen him then? Yes of course, he was the fantasy, you know he would have been the nightmare, but she is looking at him with rose colored glasses.

Has she learned her lesson? I don't know, you know her better than all of us. I will say though that reality is never better than the fantasy, because we make it what we want it to be. The real question here is you and your ability to accept what has happened and move forward together. Some people forgive immediately, while others are one and done kind of folks. This is not so much a right or wrong kind of thing, but just who we are as people. What you don't want to do is spend years trying to reconcile if you can't get past the past. I think you should consider time apart.

hatefulnow posted 1/3/2019 11:55 AM

Hello all,

Well we've made it through the holidays. Taking down the decorations this weekend. My kids will help me because it's a JOB. I really go all out with the decorations. It was most important for me this year, as an escape.

Anyway, progress. Someone suggested maybe I should not ask questions I don't want to hear the answer to. It's good advice, but hearing is necessary, in my opinion. It's like having cancer. You'd want to know so you can deal. I realize that most people, men and women, 'settle' in some way. That is not to say that our spouses aren't essentially good because they usually are. If not, we wouldn't be married. But for most, I believe, there may have been someone more desirable in one way or another. Most don't act on it and are grateful for their spouses, but for many there is the thought of the path not chosen.

That was the case with my XWW, but she succumbed to her temptation. Now since discovery she's for the most part, been great. She was being counseled by her priest, who is a man I respect and is like a second father to both of us. He's helped her/us tremendously. She hates the way she felt and the way she expressed it. We were in a MC office (not the priest) and we were talking things through, very conversational, and she said what she said, very nonchalantly. It just triggered me. And it's always been a wonder for me, since D-Day. I felt like an idiot, sucker, simp, etc. But I know that I am NOT!

Some suggested we separate and I consider dating other people. I've considered it, and with my new body, (lost about 100lbs)I get lots of attention from other women. (Scares her to death) I have a great job, some investment properties, stocks, bitcoin and other investments so I'm pretty much set. Women love men with resources and, with my new good looks, they come out of the wood work., But I'm not interested in other women. Too much drama, too many gold diggers, headaches and baggage. I'd rather 'deal with the devil I know' so to speak. At least I know where I'm at with her. And she's even bending over backwards more than ever, if that's possible.

Basically, she's not going anywhere and neither am I. There are, in my eyes, no better options. Oh yes, it IS a shit sandwich...with LONG HOTS! But I've come this far, and I do feel she's with me. Marriage still off the table, though.

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