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16 years, 2 kids and blindsided

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DIFM posted 1/2/2019 05:36 AM

Now I get that what I wrote is too harsh for you guys, so I will tone it down.

BluesPower, it was not too harsh, it was that you were stating opinion as facts. If even you had just said "It is possible that...." it would have likely been accepted for what it was, your opinion based on your observations and experience.

That was the issue.

M1965 posted 1/2/2019 09:10 AM

Hi hdybrh,

I am very sorry for what you are going through, and it is not my intention to add to your burdens. However, I am very concerned about this:

And as for reporting the guy, I feel strongly not to do that.

He's single and knowing what I know about him and his depression (yeah I know a lot) I can't do it.

I pray he will someday not make choices that ruin families and marriages.

I really hope you will question your decision-making process on this subject.

Yes, there may be this…

I knew a lot about the guy because she would talk about all the shit he was going through. I know about his family crap and even his past girlfriends.

…and this…

I actually have compassion for his situation

…but what part of his depression or his messed-up life makes you think he deserves a free pass to use his job to continue having sex with married clients, even after he has been caught red-handed?

There is a reason why professions have codes of ethics that prohibit relationships, and breaching them is a serious business. Just because the OM may be a walking train wreck does not absolve him of social responsibility or professional liability.

If you saw a burglar climbing through a window into your neighbour’s home, would you call the cops, or would you sympathise with the burglar and think, “Well, the guy probably needs the money, and his life is probably a mess…” while turning away, doing nothing, and enabling him to rob your neighbours?

Can you name one good thing that you believe will come from your decision to allow a man like the OM to continue to have unsupervised one-to-one access with bored housewives under the guise of being a ‘physical therapist’?

Whose best interests are being served by that?

The only person who benefits from that freedom to continue having sex with clients and damaging marriages and families despite having been caught at least once is the OM. So why help him?

Beyond that, is it socially responsible to not report a man you know to be an active sexual predator? To sit by, do nothing, and leave him free to use his job attack other families in your community?

It is completely obvious that a man like him should not be allowed to have one-to-one physical contact with women. Praying that a man like him will suddenly develop a conscience and stop of his own accord is playing fast and loose with the lives and well-being of others.

Given that the OM’s reaction to meeting your wife and daughter in the post office was to immediately try and restart the affair, and that his experience of having sex with a married female client has been 100% positive for him so far, what do you think will stop him from doing the same thing again? His good character and conscience?

Would you let that man spend one-to-one time giving physical therapy to a good friend’s wife without saying a word, or would you intervene to prevent the OM from working his magic on your friend’s marriage?

If you would intervene to block the OM in that situation, why is it fine to leave the man free to do the same thing to a stranger’s marriage?

Here are two hypothetical situations to consider:

Number One:

Let’s say that the OM was found to be having sex with clients five years ago, and that it was reported, and that he lost his license for unprofessional/unacceptable conduct. Would his affair with your wife have happened? Or did he only meet your wife because his job provides him with a constant conveyor belt of fresh targets?

Number Two:

You are sitting in a bar talking to a guy, and he tells you his marriage has been destroyed by his wife’s affair with her physical therapist. You ask for the therapist’s name, and it is the OM you did not report. Do you tell the guy that exactly the same thing happened to you, and you did not report the OM, or do you stay silent?

The question has to be, who do you have more compassion for? A sexual predator who is abusing his job to obtain free sex, or all the potential innocent victims who are waiting to have him intrude in the lives and families?

I am sorry to be so ‘heavy’ about this. It is not meant as an attack on you. However, the man’s job is going to give him access to untold numbers of women who he can lay hands on and tell his hard-luck stories to. Is that really something that should be allowed to continue, now that the OM’s capacity to abuse of his position of trust has become known?

People who abuse their position of trust to initiate sexual relationships, whether they are priests, teachers, doctors, psychologists, cops, care-workers, or physical therapists need to be removed from those positions, for the sake of all their potential victims.

Whatever your final decision in this matter is, I pray that at some point someone will step up and stop this predator. It may be you. It may be the next husband, or the next. Or maybe the one after that. What matters is that he is stopped from inflicting the same thing he did to you on other people.

hdybrh posted 1/2/2019 10:04 AM

This aspect of it has been hard as I realize that he must pay a price for this. I feel differently today as I have processed this than in earlier posts.

I fear for many things from what I know about this guy including my safety and that of my family and to a lesser extent this will drive the guy to kill himself. Many will assume this is part of his game and my WS has fully acknowledged now that she could have been played. Know that I am not writing this off but that in the hierarchy of things I have to deal with I'm not ready for it yet. It is a huge part of what I'm praying about and seeking counsel for. I believe as a Christian in forgiveness and profound forgiveness at that. I don't forgive him but my foundation as a person is based on that, but justice as well. , Regardless that this happened after she was a patient, I know it is very wrong how it went down. At a minimum which some will recognize as a bad move it's communicating to him so he understands the destruction he's left behind from his choices. He told my WS that he was once before with a married woman (non patient) and apparently expressed remorse during the A... they even discussed the risk to his profession "do no harm!" If he's not a serial predator and has a conscience this does the trick. But it may not. My constantly shifting emotions and the recency of everything give me pause over any major decision. I know that's disappointing but it's where I'm at and I'm not writing it off.

Butforthegrace posted 1/2/2019 10:12 AM

This is exactly the point:

You are sitting in a bar talking to a guy, and he tells you his marriage has been destroyed by his wife’s affair with her physical therapist. You ask for the therapist’s name, and it is the OM you did not report. Do you tell the guy that exactly the same thing happened to you, and you did not report the OM, or do you stay silent?

Anything told to you about the asshole by your WW is pure fiction, manufactured by the asshole, or by her, or by the two collaborating, to save their asses from consequences.

If you want to forgive the asshole, forgive him. But if you choose to fail to protect future families from the serial predator, that would be a moral failure on your shoulders.

Ripped62 posted 1/2/2019 10:21 AM

I am not familiar with the passage:

"Thou shall allow harm and the destruction of children and families for thine comfort."

Please do not use excuses based on religion for your lack of action.

Read and study and you will find the justifications do not exist.

[This message edited by Ripped62 at 10:23 AM, January 2nd (Wednesday)]

RubixCubed posted 1/2/2019 10:50 AM

I believe as a Christian in forgiveness and profound forgiveness at that.

Maybe you should be praying that his future victim's families will forgive you for enabling him to continue.
Forgiveness does not forego consequences.

beenthereinco posted 1/2/2019 11:03 AM

He told my WS that he was once before with a married woman (non patient) and apparently expressed remorse during the A...

So he's had affairs with married women at least two times now and your WW is still expressing that she has strong feelings for this guy? WTF? Does she not see that he is a player? What does she think would have happened if in the middle of this you had found out and just left her? Does she think this guy would have taken her in and been faithful?

Her continued tender feelings for the POS would be very concerning to me. It has been a year supposedly since they have been together and she seems to still feel fondly for him even after knowing that she wasn't that special. I give her credit for being honest but frankly to me the fact that she is not expressing disgust at her behavior and anger at the OM is not a good sign for your ability to reconcile.

M1965 posted 1/2/2019 11:10 AM

Hi hdybrh,

I fear for many things from what I know about this guy including my safety and that of my family and to a lesser extent this will drive the guy to kill himself. Many will assume this is part of his game and my WS has fully acknowledged now that she could have been played. Know that I am not writing this off but that in the hierarchy of things I have to deal with I'm not ready for it yet. It is a huge part of what I'm praying about and seeking counsel for. I believe as a Christian in forgiveness and profound forgiveness at that. I don't forgive him but my foundation as a person is based on that, but justice as well. , Regardless that this happened after she was a patient, I know it is very wrong how it went down. At a minimum which some will recognize as a bad move it's communicating to him so he understands the destruction he's left behind from his choices. He told my WS that he was once before with a married woman (non patient) and apparently expressed remorse during the A... they even discussed the risk to his profession "do no harm!" If he's not a serial predator and has a conscience this does the trick. But it may not. My constantly shifting emotions and the recency of everything give me pause over any major decision. I know that's disappointing but it's where I'm at and I'm not writing it off.

I did wonder if the nature of the OM made him a potential threat to the well-being of you and your family. I fully sympathise with that, and that is a legitimate element that needs to be borne in mind.

Also, I imagine that because you are a thoughtful and compassionate man, it is not in your nature to (metaphorically as well as physically) go after someone with a baseball bat. There is no shame in that; quite the opposite. And no-one would want or expect you to transform into the Terminator at the press of a button.

As I said in my post, I am very aware of the burden you are dealing with, and everyone who has faced infidelity knows how many conflicting feelings and ideas can do battle in our hearts and minds. Just at the moment, the ground probably feels like it is constantly shifting beneath your feet, and my heart goes out to you.

Please, by all means, take your time. No-one can be expected to figure out the best way forward in the space of a few days. That may take weeks, maybe even months. So please do not expect it of yourself to resolve this quickly. A decision made quickly is not always the best one!

Forgiveness is something that philosophers and theologians have argued about for centuries, and I am sure the debate will never cease, because the key to forgiveness lies within the heart and mind of every person. I would not want to be told that I 'had' to forgive someone, just as I would not want to be told that I should not. I am sure you feel the same.

However, I think that there is a difference between bestowing forgiveness on a person who has done us harm, and letting them off the hook. The two things do not go hand in hand. They might, in some situations, but there are also times where bestowing forgiveness can be done at the same time as taking steps to prevent a sinner from repeating a negative pattern of behaviour that is causing other people pain.

In fact, it could be argued that allowing a person to continue a negative behaviour is actually doing them harm, regardless of wherever they might want to continue doing it.

In other words, forgiveness can go hand in hand with prevention. And sadly, the OM has now had affairs with two married women, and he clearly sees no reason to stop. Equally sadly, your wife's actions have actually encouraged him to continue.

I guess what I am saying is that it is possible to forgive and understand an alcoholic while also taking the bottle out of their hands and refusing to give it back. Sometimes people need to be saved from themselves, don't they?

However, you are quite right that you have more than enough to think through at the moment, and I agree that you need to work through the issues that are a priority to you. That is exactly what you need to be doing.

My thoughts will be with you, and it was good to hear that you are receiving help and compassion from your friends. A real life support network is very important, and we are never so strong as when we ask for help.

You will get through this.

hdybrh posted 1/2/2019 11:14 AM

The feelings for him are not tender and when she told him to never contact her again and blocking him on social media before I found out is proof of that. She is now reconciling the image of guy she knew and the reality. She is disgusted and that has been expressed through word and emotion. But we have a long road and this is a key hurdle.

hdybrh posted 1/2/2019 11:20 AM

Thank you M1965. This is very wise and thoughtful advise.

I have an amazing support network and I feel loved and validated by them.

I do not want to let him off the hook for sure.

And despite my thoughtful compassion I have fantasized about taking a baseball bat to his car and punching him in the face. Which is think is helpful and helping me grow :-)

beenthereinco posted 1/2/2019 11:28 AM

My comment about the continued tender feelings on her part were in response to this that you posted:

You can tell there are still feelings because as she said, "I don't want to think about him, I don't want to have any contact with him again, but I can't promise my thoughts won't go there but that I will pray and work hard to push them out like I did earlier this year."

That seemed to me to imply that she is trying to starve the feelings for him by not thinking of him and staying away from him but that it was in opposition to what she actually wanted to do. I hope for your sake that she actually is disgusted by her behavior and by this guy. It gives you a much better chance to Reconcile if you decide to do that if this is the case and not that she is thinking fondly of him as her lost love.

MickeyBill2016 posted 1/2/2019 12:15 PM

Well, let's just hope that he PT finds another vulnerable patient or two to bang so he leaves your wife alone.

Since he admits to 2 sidepieces, there are probably a lot more. Even your wife would not believe he has "never done this before" He's a player, she got played but you don't get played unless you are in the game.

Marauder posted 1/2/2019 13:43 PM

Since he admits to 2 sidepieces, there are probably a lot more.

Wait what? I missed that!

@OP. This guy is predatory if this is true. His sobstory a likely fabrication. He's using his position of trust and access to exploit people in vulnerable positions. And while this is only possible if they allow him to do so, he absolutely HAS to be reported and face the consequences.

hdybrh posted 1/2/2019 15:33 PM

FYI, first IC appointment tomorrow, my WW also has IC lined up too. Investigating how to report OM. Lots of productive and honest dialogue with her and my support network today. I am so thankful for the people in my life and their care and compassion checking in with me and listening to so much.

M1965 posted 1/2/2019 15:45 PM

FYI, first IC appointment tomorrow, my WW also has IC lined up too. Investigating how to report OM. Lots of productive and honest dialogue with her and my support network today. I am so thankful for the people in my life and their care and compassion checking in with me and listening to so much.

That is very good to hear. I am pleased for you.

Although such situations make us wish for a re-wind button, or - in its absence - for a fast-forward button to send us to the point where healing has occurred, we have to take these things one day at a time. Focus on doing that, and things will start to fall into place in their own time.

Thinking of you and wishing you well.

ramius posted 1/2/2019 15:49 PM

Swap out infidelity for murder.

Does your rationale still hold?

If it does then great, at least you are consistent in your theology.

fareast posted 1/2/2019 16:03 PM

I agree with m1965, it is good to hear you are communicating and having an honest dialogue with your WW and your support system. Communication is the key along with transparency. Be vigilant. Wishing you well. Keep on keepin on.

hdybrh posted 1/2/2019 16:26 PM

I also read through emails that were part of my EA and forwarding the worst of it to my WW and offering for her to see it all. Though the focus is on her indiscretions right now I am serving up the worst of what I did to her as well so it's a foundation for where we go from here. There is real power in honesty. We've both talked about how truth and openness is so helpful even when it's hard stuff. This will help in IC as well.

trustedg posted 1/2/2019 16:44 PM

knowing what I know about him and his depression
How do you know about this? Did you talk to his IC? Many WSs and APs have used this excuse.

Bigger posted 1/2/2019 17:11 PM

I still think you are focusing too much on the drama. You are also using emotional excuses rather than logical. Like your insistence that Christian doctorine demands you forgive him in the sense that you neither punish nor prevent his actions… I’m a Christian and I don’t have any religious problems with seeing that OM needs to be kept away from me and my family. My forgiveness is based on allowing him to move on and – if he finds redemption – to make good somewhere else. But I don’t want to be around him. My forgiveness is based on not letting him or some hate for him control my life.

Then the drama that exposing might drive him to suicide.
OK… I don’t wish that on anyone. But that’s something that can’t be prevented if he were so inclined. And I seriously doubt it… Someone that cheats with 2 married women is too self-centered to top himself. It’s just drama. Drama drama drama that he, your wife and you seem to feed on…

I actually wouldn’t bother too much with the board. I would send them a letter, but I wouldn’t expect much of a reply. Just enough to scare OM. I sort of have a feeling that their patient-pt relationship wasn’t deep. All sorts of excuses like they were friends before, the treatment a cover-up, didn’t charge… whatever. I doubt the board will find enough to do anything. But I do think you need to talk openly to ANYONE that might impact him, your wife and your marriage in a positive way. As is your wife has a gaggle of friends that might even think the affair was exciting. As is your OM can claim that in an ideal world if their true love could thrive and if you werent’ such a tight-minded @sshole then he and she could find eternal happiness on Fridays to Sundays while you slept in the basement to be out of their hair and then you played all happy-household on weekdays.

It's this fantasy that needs to be shattered.

In an ideal world (well… wouldn’t be infidelity then….) but in an ideal world based on your situation you would phone OM and – with your wife in the room – tell him to come on over and pick her up. Tell him to have space for the kids every other week. You aren’t competing. You aren’t participating in this game. There aint no polyamory in you. You don’t share your wife any more than he gets to use your toothbrush.
The ONLY WAY you want your wife there is that she wants it more than anything else.

Where she’s not thinking about what she is sacrificing but is in fear of what she’s losing. And that needs to be you. Not the kids, not the family. YOU.

One very effective tool to turn polyamory into infidelity, love-making into plain old sex, love into insanity… is to make the object of her fantasy reject her. That is the usual beauty of exposure. That is IMHO the golden reason for why you expose the OM. If you had the option I mentioned above – of asking him if he didn’t have a minivan for the kids, old-woman and all the purchases in Costco because he just won a package deal… You would be hearing him tell your wife how she really was only some tail and that he focused on married women to avoid the attachment and commitment. That sort of kills the drama buzz.

Make what happened real. Reality can be dealt with. Fantasy… no… No matter what work you two do then as long as she (and you too buddy…) are allowed to feed on drama and fantasy there is no way you can fix things.

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