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Long Term Affairs Part 39

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SI Staff posted 2/6/2019 19:13 PM

FamilyMan75 posted 2/6/2019 23:28 PM

I'm having one of those days. My wife had a 3-year affair with the OM, then started it up again a few years later for almost 2 years, which resulted in an OC. I keep asking myself how I could not have known she was having an affair both times. The first time, a former co-worker told me, and this last time, my wife dropped the bombshell on me. With this latest D-day anniversary coming up in a few months, I've been thinking alot. There are so many more before that I'm not even going to entertain. I just want the other man out of my life. In a few weeks to a few months, I hope to tie up all the loose ends, and I can focus my attention on my own healing and hopefully with my wife doing what she needs to do, repair our marriage.

[This message edited by FamilyMan75 at 1:59 PM, February 7th (Thursday)]

Tallgirl posted 2/7/2019 06:14 AM

Maybe you did not want to see it. It is easy to lie to yourself because you want and love your WS, I did it too.

He had a five year affair, Most of me was shocked when he confessed. He lied to me everyday for 5 years. And boy was he good at it.

FamilyMan I hope you can heal. You deserve happiness.

Keep your eyes wide open and know you are not alone.

northeasternarea posted 2/7/2019 08:33 AM

Family Man, don't beat yourself up. Hindsight is 20/20 vision.

CaliforniaNative posted 2/9/2019 12:01 PM

Family man,

Youíre a much nicer person then I am. When I caught my x breaking NC the first time after D day, I threw him out and we went into the D process. Game over.

gmc94 posted 2/11/2019 23:12 PM

I must respectfully disagree with the idea that we BS may not want to see it or we lie to ourselves bc we love our WS. I recognize that may be possible in some situations (the classic lipstick on the collar type stuff), but from what I see here on SI, I suspect it's a very small minority of cases where there are such signs/red flags (like extra clothing in the car or house, or smelling of perfume, or seeing the strange texts).

My WS did 99.9% of all A-related communication from his office (and he works a lot of weekends, so it was easy). He used his office phone, office calendar, and they only met / had sex at lunchtime. When he acted strangely shortly after it went PA, and I confronted, he told me it was stress at work (which I did know about, so his answer "made sense" at the time... he was acting like a jerk the same way he acted like a jerk in the midst of a stressful project or deadline).

My WH lied to me about his AP from before we were even married. He'd been lying about her for >25 years, tho the sex was about 10 years.

Maybe my trust was blind - but I can't even see it that way in that I never even knew this woman had ever existed, or ever been a part of his life. He lied about her from the very beginning of our relationship, and a few years later (probably after we married) she moved to another city, so there would be no way for me to know about her. She was very skilled at hiding her tracks (she'd call his cell # using *69 so it would show up on the bill as an "unavailable" number, and even those calls were very minimal over the 20+ years they were in regular communication). And my WH did a good job too - he "regularly" deleted all texts. I have ONE text out of what I can only assume were 100s over the 20 years he had a cell phone and was in EA/PA with her. There is not one single email left - he deleted those immediately (and would have been a 2-step process from his inbox and his trash bc he still has 1000s of emails going back YEARS). There is a 6+ month window of FB messenger that WH says he forgot to delete (which isn't surprising, given that I didn't have his FB password before dday, so I can see how he'd figure I never even find them - tho he says they used FB messenger for YEARS before dday).

I mention this bc the idea that a BS may have been looking the other way can be harmful, IMO. It becomes a somewhat insidious way to self blame for deception and outright lies that are told to us. Implying a BS didn't see bc they didn't want to is a short - but slippery - slope to self blame. To telling ourselves "if i'd only....." When the reality (in I'd say 90% or more cases) is there was NOTHING we could do to prevent our WS from lying to us, from living a life of deceit, or from having a LTA. Trusting a spouse is supposed to be OK... trust in your spouse is basically essential to a relationship (as we all now know bc we are working so hard to try and repair it to something that can sustain the M).

I'm not trying to be crotchety, but I do think it's important to do what we can from staying out of self blame. There are some books out there that say things like something must have been "wrong" or "bad" in the M. Books that say we need to look at how we contributed to the problems in the M that "led" (or some other euphemism, like "made vulnerable" ) our WS to cheat. To me, that's just a bunch of malarky. I'm not perfect. I'm not the perfect wife. Our M was not perfect. But I had NOTHING to do with my WH's choice to lie and cheat. Hell, he'd already made that decision before I even said "I do".


[This message edited by gmc94 at 11:14 PM, February 11th, 2019 (Monday)]

Tallgirl posted 2/12/2019 18:58 PM

GMC, I did not see it. I never expected it. I loved the guy. There were lots of signs and I missed them. I trusted him because he was my husband. I am not blaming myself. Nor any BS.

I canít beleive that I missed it. My mom had an idea. My son knew (breaks my heart). I didnít. I still canít believe it.

Is it my fault. Of course not.

No BS is responsible for their WSs A. Ever.

gmc94 posted 2/13/2019 00:13 AM

Tallgirl -
thanks for filling that in. Hugs (and so so so doggone sorry your son knew- that really sucks).

Tallgirl posted 2/13/2019 04:40 AM

me too.

It is on the list of the things that are unforgivable.

That list is growing.

UKgirl posted 2/14/2019 05:51 AM

From an oldie who doesnít visit often, but every now and then pops her head around the door.

A long time ago, I found an article about how to have an affair without being caught. There were 25 ďrulesĒ. My WH followed 23 of the 25 without knowing he was following the ďrulesĒ. Below relates to the more pertinent ones.

Both he and MOW knew that this would be an affair, they had no intention of it being anything else while they were bringing up their respective children.
They had been together as bf/gf before, so knew each other well.
They were both married.
She lives about 75 miles away Ė no chance of bumping into them.
Neither kept the same friends from school or worked in the same fields.
They usually went to hotels to hook up.
He often went to her house when her BH was abroad; her house, garden and drive are totally private and not overlooked.
She never came to my house, although she had been to take a look at my town on her own. I didnít know her at all, so even if I had seen her walking on my street, I wouldnít have been alerted to anything.
WH never changed his habits, we never stopped having sex, going out, being affectionate. Although there were times when he was unreasonable and picking arguments, I put it down to work stress (which there was).
All texts and calls were deleted from his phone (work) and he never kept her number in his phone. All emails were deleted.
He didnít tell anyone. No one. She told her mother and best friend.
He was generally where he said he was Ė he just didnít tell me that his gf was there too. He would phone every day and evening he was away. He never had to lie or remember his lies.
He never spent his own money on her, it was all on expenses.
I was totally blind-sided. It turned out I was married to a very accomplished liar Ė someone who lived his lies and kept his home life and his affair life in separate boxes as far apart as they could possibly be.
The biggest mistakes he made were promising they would be together Ė this was when he had to tell me. The other being that they fell in love with each other. Until he had to make a choice.

Never blame yourself. The fault does not lie with the BS, it lies with the WS. You trusted - which is what married people are supposed to do. Trust is when you believe someone will act/be a certain way, when they have the same boundaries as you, when you can count on them having your back. Your WS betrayed that trust Ė took it for granted and used it against you. That is THEIR fault and not yours for giving it in the first place.

Tallgirl posted 2/14/2019 17:07 PM

UKGirl did you reconcile? I struggle because it was a full on relationship for 5 years. He would spent 3 days a week with her, and talked to her or texted ALL the time. I doubt he worked much.

just so angry. so hurt. so used.

still hard to believe sometimes.

gmc94 posted 2/15/2019 16:47 PM

tallgirl - funny, we both seemed to think of the same thing.

And my WH followed most of those items too.

Tallgirl posted 2/15/2019 17:58 PM

I find you often post my thoughts gmc.

I hope your valentine's day was happy. I avoided it - told WH to do nothing because he ruined the day forever with his outstanding overachieving cheating. He's away on business and called me in the morning to say have a good day. I wasn't happy. I didn't want to see or hear from him. sometimes he is a little dense. (ok, not a little, can be a total dumbass)

SO.....2 glasses of red wine and I was out cold on the couch by 9.30 according to my fitbit.

Hey what is a POLF?

[This message edited by Tallgirl at 5:59 PM, February 15th (Friday)]

gmc94 posted 2/15/2019 18:39 PM

POLF is the plain of lethal flatness
I'd say it's when the shock has worn off, the trauma is not so raw. I think of it as the rape scene in "Rosemary's Baby" when Mia Farrow wakes up and says "this is not a dream... this is really happening". This is my life now. That kind of thing.

Some describe it as depression, tho I can't say that's what I'm experiencing. I'm not wound up 24/7 like I was for so many months. Some say its when they just detach from all emotion. I can't say that I'm experiencing that, but the emotions I do feel are now more dull... numb. I feel/get angry, but not the pure rage (there are moments still, but they are much more rare and don't last so long). I feel pain, but not debilitating. Kind of like the shift from the acute pain of a knee injury morphing into arthritis.

There is a kind of detachment - not the purposeful detaching that I did around month 9 (after my WH's suicide attempt).

There's a sense of regaining my footing. I can at least concentrate enough to do my job.

But it does feel like a very distinct shift - and it hit me around 10-11 months.

The emotional hurricane post dday has dissipated. But I feel my whole life is now just under a terrible dark cloud. No sunshine, but no storm either.

Our ddays are 4-5 months apart, and if I think back to that time, it was still pretty awful every day. I dunno if/how my WH's suicide attempt screwed with the timing - did it catapult me forward? backward? not at all? But I do know that the early part of last fall was not much better than month 2 or 3. Very angry. Very hopeless. Very much wanted to S or D, but knew I didn't really have the strength (tho I didn't really admit THAT - instead, I just had a bunch of practical excuses for not pulling the trigger).

Then something just kind of shifted. I stopped thinking about deciding, and just started to live my life. Whether we S or D or R or whatever, I still gotta get up and I still want to work on myself. I have more patience than I did in year 1. And it's not about patience waiting for my WH to get his act together. It's patience with myself and for myself. I don't have to beat myself up for still being married to my idiot (or asshole, depending on the moment) WH.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 6:50 PM, February 15th, 2019 (Friday)]

Tallgirl posted 2/15/2019 20:21 PM

I only have the Lta betrayal to deal with, I canít imagine having to deal with a suicide attempt and that. GMC you are so strong. I think POLF is a survival mechanism for dealing with so much crap.

These days I donít feel much. I really donít care. I think it is an innate coping mechanism. The shaking in anger on the inside Happens less. The spontaneous tears only happen occasionally when I am talking to my mom (she passed four years ago but i chat to her when I drive.). The bursts of anger tend to happen in MC and when he does something stupid. The straight up anger at my life is still around but I can put it in a corner when I need to.

I admit I sometimes pain shop - I go to the whore APs Facebook and page through the 100ís of happy photos of them together. It reminds me that he is a liar. Yes this may be unfair but again I donít care - he cheated

When my WH talks about his work I donít care. I find I donít care about a lot of what he says.

My crippling feelings of loneliness are still around. This is nothing new, I wonít let myself go to him for comfort because he would like that so I am learning to care for me. And frankly he is tainted with her. I can barely touch him.

There is an overarching sadness that hangs around. A lot like your cloud.

So gmc I get you. It Is hard. One day at a time. Big hug. We have us

[This message edited by Tallgirl at 8:23 PM, February 15th (Friday)]

UKgirl posted 2/16/2019 06:03 AM

Hi Tallgirl, yes we have mostly reconciled. But itís never been the same. He kept her dangling for quite a while and she was periodically internet stalking and in the background until a few years ago. Divorce is never far from my mind, but we get along pretty well most of the time. Other people still see us as ďhappilyĒ married. I donít love him as much and Iíve never given him that 100% blind trust again. He gets about 85% max these days as I still suspect he would have made the leap and gone straight to her if I had thrown him out. I also suspect he viewed MOW as a safety net for him if things had gone belly-up businesswise, which was a real possibility at one time. She would have supported him financially and the boys and I would have been left to our new found poverty and I know he would have abandoned us to our fate. So you can understand why I donít say ďfully reconciledĒ. Iím with him because I have a fairly comfortable life and I know I can go and see my sons any time Ė three of them live in Australia and New Zealand. If we divorced, itís unlikely that I could afford it more than once every couple of years. Overall, staying together has been better for all of us (well, I canít really comment for fWH as Iíve never asked him!) than to separate and divorce. Other couples have dealt with the aftermath of a LTA far better than we have.

Itís a very hard and long road to reconciliation. You have to focus on the important things and let the small stuff go. You have to make choices together and agree on your destination and how you are going to get there and how long you are going to give it. Remember that limbo is still a choice. No one is to say what is right for you Ė I just know what was right for me and there is no point now looking and wondering at the ďwhat ifsĒ and ďmaybesĒ. I know that if I suddenly come to a crossroads and want to take that other road, I can.

I would say to anyone that seeing a lawyer is a good thing. Even if you are fully committed to reconciliation. Know where you stand and what your rights are. It gives a comfort cushion and once youíve done it, you can put it aside unless or until you need to revisit. Here in the UK, the first hour or two are usually free and there is something called the Citizens Advice Bureau where you can get lots of free legal advice and help. So it doesnít even have to cost anything.

PoLF is a dangerous place to dwell for too long. Itís kind of comfortable depression from which you have to emerge at some point and take steps forward. I think of it as a sheltered spot for a while. You want to be on your own, you donít want the rest of the world and all its shit. You can only take so much and sometimes you are so overwhelmed that you need just donít want to deal with it anymore. Itís a state of self-preservation so that you donít have a complete breakdown. You go through the motions without emotion. Youíre flat. But itís called lethal because you must not stay there too long. The longer you stay, the harder it is to come out.

northeasternarea posted 2/16/2019 18:03 PM

UKgirl, I relate so much to what you have said.

gmc94 posted 2/16/2019 19:37 PM

I think of it as a sheltered spot for a while.

Yup. And Lord knows I needed it!

I dunno. Maybe I'm heading out of POLF... I really do not feel depressed. I dunno. I'm just not so wound up all the frigging time like I was for pretty much the 1st year. I expected the 1yr antiversary to be trigger city... but ended up feeling meh. Whatever.

I do feel joy and happiness in my life - but I am also very much focused on making sure of that (practicing daily gratitude, meditating, using Rick Hanson's HEAL steps, that kind of thing). Perhaps that's how/why I don't feel I'm depressed. Just on a part of the rollercoaster that has lower highs and higher lows. I can watch a movie with infidelity and not spend an hour in the rabbit hole.

And starting to pay attention to myself and my feelings. Being able to look at MY behavior and MY side of the street (today - nothing to do with the A, the M, or whatever).

Example: A couple of weeks ago my WH and I had a small argument over the phone (I was at my out of town job). The next morning I woke up and immediately realized what had happened. I was pissed at a really bad/significant betrayal that happened at work (basically, someone young enough to be my daughter, whom I mentored and supported - sometimes to my own detriment - to promote into a leadership role, backstabbed me for a promotion). My life now consists of coping with betrayal in my home life AND in my work life. I'm older, more experienced, better educated, etc than my former mentee. Yet she has the big office. I know a lot of this also has to do with the A - I was not on my "A" game at all last year, so when it came time to make a decision on leadership, folks remembered the gmc of 2018.... not the one who was a rock star for the preceding 5 years.

Anyhow, I digress. I woke up and realized that I am cleaning up a mess left by Ms. inexperienced at work. And I'm very angry about it - her inexperience was a big reason I sought the promotion - that I felt she'd ultimately be great, but not quite yet. So, right off the bat she did something foolish, and I'm left to clean up the mess. I don't have a choice. So, I have to do what I can to hold my head up and be a grown up (when everything in me wants to kick and scream about the unfairness and "I told you so" ). Then I came home and WH called and ... well. I think I picked a fight solely bc he's now an easy target. And he is.
But
that is not who I want to be. I do not want to turn my WH into my own personal dumping ground. So, I owned/admitted it and apologized. THAT's the person I want to be. A year ago, I would have probably picked at or criticized him for something foolish - and NEVER took the time to reflect on why I was doing it. I'd tell myself I really was that angry that he x (left the toilet seat up, didn't pay the bill, whatever), instead of stopping and listening to my feelings.

And recognizing this - learning how to dig into why I'm behaving the way I am - makes me feel good about myself, despite my WH's being an idiot (or an asshole). More importantly, this work makes me feel stronger every frigging day.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 3:29 AM, February 17th, 2019 (Sunday)]

hopefull77 posted 2/17/2019 07:05 AM

Always good to hear from UK Girl

I don't post a lot but do check SI often still.

6 years out and things are good. I finally reached acceptance and that took the load off my back.
I also set boundaries with family, friends and co workers... in other words I shook all the dirt off my doormat!
This is when you find out who your friends REALLY are BTW!

UK Girl always referred to all of us here on the LTA thread as a TRIBE! It's quite true.
Peace everyone

Tallgirl posted 2/17/2019 12:29 PM

UKgirl, thank you for your post. I read your story and what a journey you have been through.

I hope someday this crazy stalker can find peace in herself and leave your family alone.

I know limbo is a choice and a hard place to stay. I am not ready to R or D yet - another long journey for which I am not ready. Limbo seems similar to the POLF.

My self healing is just starting. Lots to self realize still.

I hear and read a lot about forgiveness these days. I am not able to, not now, maybe not ever. We will see. For my sake I hope I can get there, I want the rest of my life to be about me.

I am grateful for the willingness of strangers to share their stories here and their pain to help others. It Feels good that there is still so much kindness in the world.


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