SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi. This is my first post here. I'm looking for advice for my situation. I'll try to summarize my situation since a full account would probably be a Russian novel. If something isn't clear, please ask.

My BW and I have been together for almost 15 years - most of our lives, really. We were teenagers when we met online, but once we were old enough, we moved in together and soon married. In truth, we always considered ourselves married and had decided to spend the rest of our lives together early on.

For 13 years, I never felt any temptation. I never was interested in anyone else. I had never cheated on her nor on any previous girlfriends. I considered myself inherently monogamous and incapable of such things - yes, this was probably part of the problem.

Almost two years ago, I met the OW. My wife and I were traveling, meeting up with people of similar interested. My wife was right next to me when I started talking to her. OW and I talked very easily about things very personal and important to us and I felt a connection.

When I got home, I initiated email contact with OW, excited that I might have found someone who could become a close friend. I remember being a little scared and asking my wife if it was ok. I think she expressed some concern but was ok with it - I probably ignored her.

Anyway, things didn't get too bad for another half year. By June 2011, OW and I were getting pretty close sharing childhood traumas via IM and spending a lot of time together. At the time, I decided I felt platonic love for her. I was briefly worried when I realized I was physically attracted to her as well, but decided it wasn't sexual.

I became closer over time. My BW expressed concerns about the way we interacted online. Instead of listening to her concerns, I just argued until I got my way. It started as hugging and holding and then got closer, though nothing explicitly romantic like kissing.

My BW says I got abusive with her. I do remember neglecting her because I was afraid of losing OW as a "best friend", and she says I also abused her constantly by yelling. She believes I took my frustrations with OW out on her. I don't remember any of this, but I don't want to present a distorted view.

Anyway, eventually I planned a trip during which BW and I spent a few days with OW. I thought it was going well, but my BW was secretly miserable. I guess I would have realized if I had been paying more attention to her and less to OW. BW says that OW wasn't nice to her when I wasn't around,

During the trip, when we were alone, OW and I told each other we loved each other but were convinced it was in a platonic way. I thought she was the best friend I had other than my BW. My BW thought it was romantic, though, as did other mutual friends who met us.

Anyway, things got worse between BW and I and eventually I went on a trip alone with OW when she was in the area. I had booked a place for us with two bedrooms, but by the last night together, we ended up in the same bed. I finally realized it was not just platonic when I crossed an obviously sexual line. I wanted to go all the way and believed OW was willing but I did stop when I thought of my wife and how I couldn't do this to her. I didn't break up with OW, though. Instead, I told her I'd have to fix things with my wife and then we'd figure out what we were.

When I got home, I told my BW everything and asked for polyamory. She, naturally, refused. She was very hurt. About a week after I got back, after seeing my wife in such pain and while the OW (who had thought it was just friends too until that trip) was obviously in pain missing me, I went to break up with OW.

I was angry, though. I didn't really accept it. I just did it for my BW and the OW too, I suppose, afraid of hurting her out of desire. But I didn't want to break up with her for myself. This was all in January 2012.

For months, we tried to reconcile. I had no contact with OW for six months. I did follow her a bit online for a little while but my wife eventually gave me an ultimatum to stop or she'd leave. I did so.

We tried many sessions of MC but eventually my wife did not wish to go anymore. I got IC at the recommendation of our MC and it worked to some degree.

At first, I found it hard to bond with my BW because I kept thinking of the OW. My BW constantly complained about me pining over OW. Overtime, I feel I got better and eventually was able to put OW out of my mind when I thought of her, to some degree.

My IC thought I was making a lot of progress, but my BW was not happy. She insisted that for us to truly R, I needed to have no fond feelings for my memories of OW. My IC thought this was impossible and seemed to get frustrated.

My wife was getting to be almost abusive as well - yelling at me a lot and telling me she hated me. I finally told her so and, to her credit, she got much better.

One problem I've had is that my wife's crying triggers memory of my mother. My mother was emotionally abusive toward me when I was child (and a teenager, actually...) and after she screamed at us, she'd go into sobbing fits. So it's hard for me to comfort my BW properly because I get abuse triggers when she really sobs.

Anyway, my wife basically was decided to leave but said it was ok after six months to contact OW. I took my time trying to prepare myself, hoping that talking to her would get me unstuck from the past.

Unfortunately, it didn't. Apparently she has considered me her "best friend" all this time and was ecstatic to get an email from me. My BW was very unhappy with my email and her responses as well as our first IM chat, thinking I was trying to get back with her. I didn't believe I was.

My BW left temporarily soon after and I contacted OW some more, hoping I'd see her in a different light after all this time and that the fog would be gone. Unfortunately, it didn't work.

Anyway... right now, my BW is preparing to sign paperwork on her new apt and leave me forever. We still love each other immensely, but she feels she cannot stay with me if I have any fond feelings at all for OW.

I love my BW dearly and want to always be with her. Unfortunately, I cannot say I'm not also in love with OW. It's been over a week since I talked to OW and I miss her. I don't see any way I'll ever be able to not have fond memories,

My BW says that smiling when I think of the time I was with OW is a continuing betrayal of her. She says it means I don't mean my apologies, That I am only sorry for how she feels, not what I did. But I have apologized many times for what I did specifically. To me, my fondness for my memories is separate from my regret for my actions.

I also want to say that I've always been honest about the facts of my relationship with OW. I had insisted it was "not romantic" and "just friends", but I was in severe denial at the time and that's what I actually believed. I felt awful about it once I realized it was actually romantic.

I should also mention that OW is 24 (was 23 through most of this), about five years younger than my wife and eight years younger than me. OW and I said we felt like peers and as if there wasn't an age difference, but I've heard that people in affairs often say this. I feel really awful for making my wife feel old and ugly. I think she is very beautiful and hate what I've done to her.

I'm sorry for writing a Russian novel after all. This isn't very well organized, I know.

I guess what I'm asking is - is it reasonable for my wife to ask me to have no fondness for my memories of OW at all? And how can I possibly get over OW? Six months of no contact didn't do anything. I just felt stuck in the moment that I last held her. I love my BW and I want to reconcile, but truthfully, the only reason I don't also want to be with OW is because it would hurt my BW.

I suppose I should also mention that I met a polyamorous friend during all this and I worry that had some sort of influence on me. She turned an affair into actual polyamory somehow, but I also know my BW is different from my friend's husband.

Any advice? Is there any hope for me? Help!

I know – I am going to sound harsh on you.

Yes – it is reasonable for your wife to expect you to see the affair as a betrayal. And if you have fond memories and feelings towards a betrayal… well that says a lot.

However to me it sounds a bit like you never committed. But when you did NC with the OW you still kept looking her up online. That’s like an alcoholic that still keeps that 12 year old scotch “just to look at”. And after 6 months you got to reopen that bottle again. We all know that eventually you would end up taking another sip.

So now you have created a situation where commitment isn’t really your call. Your wife is leaving because she doesn’t want to be the third wheel in her marriage. It’s no longer required that YOU commit or that YOU sacrifice on a permanent basis.

I hope for all your sakes – all three of you – that your wife can stick to her guns. I hope that she divorces you and breaks off contact with you. It’s not personal. It’s not that I think you are a bad person. It’s just that this is what normally happens when people divorce. They stop interacting and move on. Even in amicable divorces this tends to be the case. If you two don’t have kids then basically three years from now you won’t have any reason to interact. The sooner your wife can move into a “normal” relationship the better. What you are offering isn’t “normal” and from what you post then you seem to acknowledge that you can’t offer her “normal”.

Once again – this is not personal. It’s not meant as painting you as a bad person. It’s simply that as is it sounds as if you aren’t capable of committing to a monogamous marriage – at least not to your wife. I would fear that if your wife moves out and you pursue her with no real intention of breaking it off with OW you are simply extending the present situation. So therefore – for ALL your sakes – if you can’t fully commit to your wife then allow her to move on.

Thank you for your response.

Just to clarify, I did go over three months with complete NC. I didn't look at anything OW posted during that time and I didn't talk to any of OW's friends or get any information about her. It was only a few weeks during the six months that I followed OW's postings online at all.

And I had no problem committing monogamously for 13 years. I wes never tempted even once. I didn't think I was capable of it. :-/

EDIT:

As for fond feelings toward a betrayal - I don't know. I feel awful about what I did to my BW. Really, really awful. But when I think of the good times when OW and I were close, somehow I can feel fondness toward those times even though I know being so close to OW hurt my wife deeply. I feel bad for hurting her and very guilty. It's possible I am still compartmentalizing? I did suffer emotional abuse as a child and I've read that children of abuse tend to be good at compartmentalizing.

[This message edited by lostone209 at 11:22 PM, July 30th (Monday)]

Welcome lostone209,

Do you realize that you only used the word cheat once in your Russian novel? And that one time was in reference to past girlfriends.

Can you say it out loud? Can you say "I cheated on my wife"?

What you have put your BW through is generally called gaslighting. You are also blameshifting. You are doing everything you can to convince your BW, and us, that you are a good guy and you should be able to love two women at once. You are asking permission to cheat.

What you need to do is get a new IC, block the OW, and start figuring out how you could have ever gotten to the point of asking your BW to let you continue loving another woman. Also, it isn't love, it is limerance. And you don't have these feelings for the OW, they are related to your affair more than the OW.

All of the buildup from the time you started emailing the OW and justifying it as platonic is what is known as an emotional affair (EA). EA's are just as bad as physical affairs (PA).

So, back to the beginning, you cheated on your BW and you are wondering what to do.

Part of why you never got over the OW is that you kept it secret and minimized it to make it seem not so bad. This seems apparent when reading your post and realizing that you can't seem to say that you actually cheated.

There is no room for more than two people in a M. Your BW has already shown you more patience than many other WS who come here. The OW isn't as great as you think. If she was such a great person, she wouldn't be actively assisting in the destruction of your M.

The feelings do fade eventually, but you have to make a commitment to work through it all. You have to make that commitment to your BW. Are you willing to do that?

lostone209, first bit of advice is to consider the stop sign your friend on a thread like this. It will make the mods job a lot easier, although I am betting that there will be plenty of FWS's swinging 2x4's soon enough.

Now is the obligatory warning to everyone to read the posting guidelines before replying to this.

My IC thought I was making a lot of progress, but my BW was not happy. She insisted that for us to truly R, I needed to have no fond feelings for my memories of OW. My IC thought this was impossible and seemed to get frustrated.

From your wifes point of view, your OW participated in a great evil, and any fond feelings are kinda like people reminiscing about Mussolini making the trains run on time. (BTW, Mussolini never actually made the trains run on time, and when you gain perspective you will likely see similar falsehoods in your thinking about OW.)

You should probably be looking for a new IC. This one is not going to help you with your marriage.

My BW says that smiling when I think of the time I was with OW is a continuing betrayal of her. She says it means I don't mean my apologies, That I am only sorry for how she feels, not what I did. But I have apologized many times for what I did specifically. To me, my fondness for my memories is separate from my regret for my actions.

When you apologize, if you are thinking back fondly on what you are apologizing for, can you truly say your apology is sincere, or are you just saying it like a spell from Hogwarts?

These next quotes are all related:

My wife was getting to be almost abusive as well - yelling at me a lot and telling me she hated me. I finally told her so and, to her credit, she got much better.

When I got home, I told my BW everything and asked for polyamory.

I suppose I should also mention that I met a polyamorous friend during all this and I worry that had some sort of influence on me. She turned an affair into actual polyamory somehow, but I also know my BW is different from my friend's husband.

Your BW becoming almost abusive is normal. Her getting better was just a matter of holding it in out of fear of making things worse. It is very similar to your friends husband who "agreed" to "polyamory".

Polyamory/swinging/open marriages/whatever other non exclusive arrangements you can think of may work for some, but they require a degree of honesty and trust that is unbelievable. Not the kind of qualities required for an affair. You rolled the dice on manipulating your wife the way this cake eating friend did to her husband and lost. Your wife did not cave in and settle for scraps like your friends husband did. I can already tell that your friends polyamorous relationship is highly dysfunctional just from your post, and we do have several members who have lived that lifestyle who will tell you the same just based on the snippets you have posted.

We tried many sessions of MC but eventually my wife did not wish to go anymore. I got IC at the recommendation of our MC and it worked to some degree.

She likely did not want to go anymore because you were not ready for MC. This would also be why IC was suggested by your MC. It is very common for people to hold off on MC in favour of IC because the MC can not be productive until both partners are receptive. The reason IC only worked partially is that most IC is not about other relationships, it is about sorting out your own thought processes.

For months, we tried to reconcile. I had no contact with OW for six months. I did follow her a bit online for a little while but my wife eventually gave me an ultimatum to stop or she'd leave. I did so.

How long is a while? The 6 months of NC was non productive for all of the time you were following OW online. It is like the guy who tries to quit smoking so he doesn't buy cigarettes for a month but is always bumming a smoke at break time. How much of the brief NC time that you were not following OW online were you thinking about OW, perhaps looking at momentos of her, items that you could associate with her?

Anyway... right now, my BW is preparing to sign paperwork on her new apt and leave me forever. We still love each other immensely, but she feels she cannot stay with me if I have any fond feelings at all for OW.

She is probably right, and she has to do what she can to protect herself from your actions and attitudes.

I love my BW dearly and want to always be with her. Unfortunately, I cannot say I'm not also in love with OW. It's been over a week since I talked to OW and I miss her. I don't see any way I'll ever be able to not have fond memories,

Perhaps you should ask yourself what the word love means to you.

I guess what I'm asking is - is it reasonable for my wife to ask me to have no fondness for my memories of OW at all? And how can I possibly get over OW? Six months of no contact didn't do anything. I just felt stuck in the moment that I last held her. I love my BW and I want to reconcile, but truthfully, the only reason I don't also want to be with OW is because it would hurt my BW.

People can ask for anything they want. Is it reasonable for you to ask your wife to spend the rest of her life with someone who doesn't want to do the same? Someone who doesn't feel she is special enough to attempt forsaking all others? What you are seeing here is that life presents us with mutually exclusive choices. You can't have it all. How many Fortune 500 executives are competing at the Olympics this year?

One final question, and you may as well answer it now before a moderator asks, have you ended your affair yet?

ETA:

The word competing, just realized there are probably lots of Fortune 500 executives at the Olympics this year, as spectators.

[This message edited by aesir at 11:52 PM, July 30th (Monday)]

aesir:

I thought I ended my affair back in January when I broke up with OW.

My BW says that the affair has continued even without contact because of my feelings.

I was desperately hoping to save my M when I contacting OW. I really hoped that I'd see her in a different light and might see her how BW sees her. I tried to be distant. I wasn't trying to resume the A. At least not consciously. Subconsciously, I have no idea. Part of me wanted to, but I was trying to fight that part. I was pretty desperate and I didn't know what else to do. I felt like I had tried everything else.

So if I haven't ended the affair, I am at least trying to end it. I would be very happy if I didn't have any more romantic feelings. I really wish we had actually been just friends. :-(

Baxters:

Actually, before I read your post, I was just thinking that I hadn't used the words "affair" or "cheat" very much.

But yes, I cheated on my wife. I feel awful about it. When I see what bad shape my BW is in, I feel sick inside.

And what you and aesir say about emotional affairs and gaslighting and such I have heard from my BW. It's good to hear it from others, I guess.

I do know what you mean about how it's the affair I like and not OW. At least, my BW tells me that all the time. I've done lots of soulsearching. I've written down tons of stuff supporting different things. I even went back over everything with my IC, and I guess I haven't been able to come to that conclusion. I understand what you and my BW are saying, but I can't help feel that we really were friends who got in way too far. And that I really do care about OW and have genuine feelings for her rather than it just being a high or addiction.

I understand what you're saying. I've read about it. But I just can't get myself to really see it that way. :-(

And I did drop my IC a couple months ago or so after I felt I was making no progress. I saw him for maybe 2 or 3 months? I'm kind of wary of finding another IC because I don't know how to find a good one.

Our MC wanted to see my BW for solo sessions but my BW didn't want to. She also didn't want to see anyone else for IC.

My BW, btw, says I was a very honest person before the affair. She says I became a completely different person. I considered myself honest too and still do, I guess. I feel I really didn't know what it was and told my wife once it did. I know I lied to myself and that isn't honest, but I never lied about what OW and I did together. I told her everything as it happened, basically.

I did, however, argue with her when she shared her concerns until I got my way. I feel deeply ashamed of this. :-(

I wish I could go back in time and listen to my wife's heartfelt concerns and address them. I wish I had scaled things back when she asked me to and not gotten so close. I don't know what to do now.

How long is a while? The 6 months of NC was non productive for all of the time you were following OW online. It is like the guy who tries to quit smoking so he doesn't buy cigarettes for a month but is always bumming a smoke at break time. How much of the brief NC time that you were not following OW online were you thinking about OW, perhaps looking at momentos of her, items that you could associate with her?

Details:

At first, it was full NC. I didn't read any of her posts. After several weeks, around Valentine's day, my BW told me about a post she made about receiving a VDay present because she thought it was only fair I knew. She then allowed me to resume watching since it had been several weeks.

After a few more weeks (3 or 4?), she insisted that I stop watching her for good. I didn't want to agree but I finally did when there was no time left.

I wasn't happy about it and it made me miserable, but I did it. I guess that's how things have gone in our failed R. I obey the letter of what my BW demands, but I haven't been able to commit fully. I did really try for awhile - when something reminded me of OW, I tried to push it out of my head. I just tried to focus on fixing our M.

But yes, there has been some thoughts and some momentos. More so earlier than later.

I really do want to do the right thing. Desperately. I just don't know how.

Lostone - As a BS who has had to watch her WS pine away for his OW every day for more than a year, I would strongly urge you to just let your BS go. Like you, my WS does not want to do the work to heal our marriage, but he will not leave our home. His unwillingness to do anything - leave or work on the marriage - has caused me and our children intense pain and grief. My attorney is working on the divorce filing this week while my WS is on vacation with his buddies, but getting to this point has been a battle. For your wife's sake, just let her go. She deserves much better than what you are offering her, and she can start healing without having to face your infidelity on a daily basis.

My BW, btw, says I was a very honest person before the affair. She says I became a completely different person. I considered myself honest too and still do, I guess. I feel I really didn't know what it was and told my wife once it did. I know I lied to myself and that isn't honest, but I never lied about what OW and I did together. I told her everything as it happened, basically.

I was honest, or at least felt I was to some degree too. There was a period of not "knowing" what was happening.

As far as IC, the only way to find one is to lay out your story, get their take on the causes of infidelity, and be direct with them in how you want to proceed. I spent about a year with an IC who was a great person, and who listened very well, but who let me wallow in post-A (self-inflicted) misery for to long. The last IC I had helped immensely, but it was because I told him where I wanted to be.

Everything you are saying and feeling right now is the same thing so many of us have gone through. It isn't special, it isn't that one missed chance that you never thought you would have. It isn't as amazing as your brain believes it is. You have to deconstruct things. You have to see the OW for what she is, someone who is willing to have sex and be emotionally connected to a married man. Good people don't do that. Turn your back on her. Write out a NC letter, get your BW's approval on the letter, and then send it together. It should read something along the lines of

- I have put my wife through hell by cheating with you. I love her, not you, and I will be working my ass off to save my marriage. Do not contact me ever again. -

End of story. Make that decision now. used2bestrong is right. If you can't do this, then let your BW go, because you are continuing to put her through hell. Take responsibility for that. It is your fault, and your waffling on this is just causing more hurt.

I say this as someone who is lucky to still be married because I pulled the same shit with my BW. Please don't go any farther down this road.

I'll bump a thread called "things a WS should know" or something like that. It might help you to see what you have been doing to your BW.

I want to do the work to save our marriage - I just don't know what to do. I tried MC, IC, focusing on my wife, trying to comfort her. I've tried investigating the causes of the A but find myself just as confused as ever. I have many theories but no answers.

And as for gaslighting - that's interesting you mention that. BW said I engaged in that. I asked my IC about it specifically and he thought what I did wasn't gaslighting at all.

I do emphasize that I told my BW about any hints or thoughts that it might be more than "just friends" but that when I told her it was "not romantic", I fully believed it. It didn't feel romantic at all. I was blocking a lot of the feelings that were motivating my behavior.

And I am even posting here.

Also, my recent contact with OW was not just an excuse, I don't think, but I recognize that part of it may have been. But, for example, I wanted to see if she saw me as I really am versus a projection of me and so I asked open-ended questions of BW, OW, and two friends to get a sense of how people saw me.

I have been trying to shine truth on any lies or BS. I just haven't been making much progress.

[This message edited by lostone209 at 6:51 AM, July 31st (Tuesday)]

Why is it important to know how other people see you? Why is it important to know how anyone other than your wife sees you?

When was the last time you talked to your BW? Is she willing to talk now?

I get the impression that when you and your BW talk, you try to take some responsibility, but you also try to minimize what you are taking responsibility for.

There is a style of therapy out there called IMAGO therapy. It includes a very specific format for communication which might help you to move past this rut you are in as far as your "feelings" for the OW.

double, double...

[This message edited by BaxtersBFF at 7:11 AM, July 31st (Tuesday)]

Lostone,

The first thing that jumped out at me in your story was this --

OW and I talked very easily about things very personal and important to us and I felt a connection.

No boundaries. Why were you talking about very personal and important things with a stranger? That had nothing to do with the OW. She could have been anyone who sat there interested in hearing your personal information which means she equally has no boundaries-- and with that you were both off to the races.

Has your IC discussed the importance of personal boundaries with you?

Your wife is finally asserting her boundaries. She must do this to protect herself. If she forces you to go NC and you resent her for it R will not work. You have to come to these conclusions on your own.

Your BW cannot impose boundaries for/on you. You have to develop them for yourself because you know it is the healthy thing to do.

There is a saying -- the grass is always greener on the other side. The grass is greener where you water it. You watered and fertilized and tended the garden of the OW while you let your own lawn with your BW turn to a desert of dust and scrub.

Of course the OW's garden looks rich and lush -- that's where all your time, attention and effort went. What you don't want to see is that you planted a nice flower garden on top of a sewage dump. Sure it's pretty to look at but the stench is overwhelming.

Take a deep breathe. Keep posting, the members on this site can help.

You have to deconstruct things. You have to see the OW for what she is, someone who is willing to have sex and be emotionally connected to a married man. Good people don't do that.

I've tried. Much of my contacting OW again was to try to see her in a new light, not the old romanticized one. I guess I see OW as someone who was confused like I was. I don't think she realized what was happening or intended it.

I did recently ask her about what she was thinking and why she didn't remind me I was married and we shouldn't be doing this and such. When I mentioned my BW was worried she might get addicted to being with married men and do the same thing with her sister's H (who she has said reminds her of me), something seemed to connect in her and she started expressing remorse and asking what I was doing still talking to her and asking what she could do to help me get over her. But she also said she didn't understand how this couldn't be a real friendship - some of the same confusion I had.

I'll bump a thread called "things a WS should know" or something like that. It might help you to see what you have been doing to your BW.

I've already read it, actually, at least the initial post in it. I've also read How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair.

I guess my problem is that I can go through steps and take concrete actions because I'm trying to do the right thing. I can think about all of these things. But none of it seems to help how I actually feel. I still feel very similarly as during the A - I love my wife immensely and appreciate all she's done for me - all the time she's been there for me and all she's gone through. But I still have feelings for OW and miss her.

I can understand the idea that hormones were clouding my judgment and that how things went is how affairs go and that getting with the OW is never a good idea. But I still feel like it was a close friendship and that all my other friendships are cold and shallow and my life is more empty for the loss. I've tried moving on from OW despite all these feelings, but apparently it doesn't work. And I don't know how to change the feelings.

Much of my contacting OW again was to try to see her in a new light, not the old romanticized one. I guess I see OW as someone who was confused like I was. I don't think she realized what was happening or intended it.

You are defending the OW. Don't do that anymore. Was she as confused as you? Maybe, but it doesn't matter. She is a big girl, she can get through this on her own.

Why do you feel other relationships are empty? What is it about yourself that you can't feel full with other relationships?

ETA - I have to get to work. Sorry. I'll be back in a while. I'm sure others will pick up.

[This message edited by BaxtersBFF at 7:18 AM, July 31st (Tuesday)]

Here is my advice...

either you're committed to your BW or you're not.

You need to be willing, each and everyday to say " I am married, I love my wife" and then each and every decision you make that day needs to make your marriage AND your wife stronger. Is it going to be difficult? Yes, you had an A, you developed feelings for another woman, you gave parts of yourself (your love, admiration, closeness, etc...) to someone else, your wife deserved those things, not another woman. All that time you spent talking to the OW, forming friendships, having vacations and fond memories...all of that is your wife's...you freely gave it to someone else.

So if you want your marriage to work...and that is the big question here...

then your actions, decisions and thoughts, each and everyday need to be focused on your marriage and making it better. If you cannot or will not do that, then prove how much you love your wife and let her go so she can heal and find someone who cherishes her for who she is.

Sorry for the 2x4

But I still have feelings for OW and miss her.

If I were your BW, this would be completely unacceptable to me.

And I don't know how to change the feelings.

Have you read Maia's withdrawal survival guide?

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=137622

eta: I bumped this for you

[This message edited by DeadMumWalking at 7:25 AM, July 31st (Tuesday)]

BH here with a big 2X4.

I was desperately hoping to save my M when I contacting OW. I really hoped that I'd see her in a different light and might see her how BW sees her. I tried to be distant. I wasn't trying to resume the A. At least not consciously. Subconsciously, I have no idea. Part of me wanted to, but I was trying to fight that part. I was pretty desperate and I didn't know what else to do. I felt like I had tried everything else.

So if I haven't ended the affair, I am at least trying to end it. I would be very happy if I didn't have any more romantic feelings. I really wish we had actually been just friends. :-(

Also, my recent contact with OW was not just an excuse, I don't think, but I recognize that part of it may have been. But, for example, I wanted to see if she saw me as I really am versus a projection of me and so I asked open-ended questions of BW, OW, and two friends to get a sense of how people saw me.

This is called Lying to Yourself. Or at best, its foggy thinking.

You came up with what you thought was a "reasonable" excuse for calling the OW. Knowing how hurt your wife was by you contact theh OW, you still contacted the OW.

And like Yodi says, there is not try. End it, now. As hard as that will be. NC = NO CONTACT. Delete her number. blocker her e-mail. Block her Facebook.

Everytime you have a "fond memory" of OW, follow that up with a mental immage of your wife sobbing, cuz that what your doing.

BTW - Do you have kids? Cuz if you do, your "fond memories" are shattering their lives too.

Why is it important to know how other people see you? Why is it important to know how anyone other than your wife sees you?

I was hoping that I might find out that relationship with OW was not what I had thought it was. That it wasn't a real friendship and based purely on using each other like my BW said. At very least, if that's what it really was, I wanted to know that.

I did find out that, no surprise, my wife knows me really well. But I couldn't break through any illusions I might have about OW either.

When was the last time you talked to your BW? Is she willing to talk now?

We talk all the time. Not as well as we used to - there's a lot more pain and anger and hurt now, of course. But we talk. I've even talked to her about this thread even though I also asked her not to read it so that I wouldn't just be saying things in order to tell her what she wants to hear or what not.

I get the impression that when you and your BW talk, you try to take some responsibility, but you also try to minimize what you are taking responsibility for.

I've done a lot of minimizing. Early on, it was pretty embarrassing. I guess it is still. But I do try to take responsibility. I've taken responsibility for lying to her even though I didn't know the truth myself at the time. I think I just minimized again, didn't I?

There is a style of therapy out there called IMAGO therapy. It includes a very specific format for communication which might help you to move past this rut you are in as far as your "feelings" for the OW.

MC was Imago-based. When we got the book that our MC recommended, we even started doing exercises on our own cause we both wanted to make things better.

But yes - we did lots of empathizing and imago dialogs. They did help get past our defensive responses and listen to the other person. I saw even more how hurt my wife was.

None of this did anything to reduce my feelings for OW. I missed her terribly but tried to continue on for the benefit of my BW. I thought if I just focused on my BW and ignored my feelings for OW, we might be able to reconnect and deal with my feelings for OW later. My IC encouraged this and any thoughts (like "my wife needs me more than OW does") that helped me do this.

IC was a psychologist recommended by our MC, btw. She had said that men reported having a lot of success with him. I felt he didn't challenge me enough though, which is part of why I stopped IC eventually.

I did learn some things about myself in IC though, including the roots of my fear of loss (my mother used to drive away when she got angry/abusive and not say when/if she was ever coming back) and seeing that the pattern of not being able to reconcile my own desires with my wifes and my simply insisting until I got my way went back a long time. So it wasn't all bad. But it didn't fix things either.

Everytime you have a "fond memory" of OW, follow that up with a mental immage of your wife sobbing, cuz that what your doing.

Whenever I try this, I can't connect the two things in my head. I feel both fondness for the memory and guilt/pain for hurting my wife.

BTW - Do you have kids? Cuz if you do, your "fond memories" are shattering their lives too.

No kids.

Thanks for all the responses, 2x4s and all. I won't be able to read or respond during the day, but I'll be back this evening after work. I know I sound (and am) very foggy and I thank you all for putting up with me and giving me your frank opinions and advice.