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We have recently experienced a major setback. The issue itself was fairly trivial, but all the lies he told about it were not.

Now I'm back in can't eat/can't sleep land. I was starting to feel safe, so this is a pretty big regression.

I guess it boils down to...what else is/has he lied about. Right now I am betting my life on the fact that I can believe him. As this pretty much proves that I can't, I have to wonder if I'm not in some sort of fog myself.

I'm just so very discouraged.

Thanks for listening.

I just want to tell you that you have been heard. Hugs.

And yes, there is such a thing as the BS fog. It's where we pretend everything is ok because to acknowledge the alternative would be... devastating.

((((heforgotme)))) Be kind to yourself. xxx

Some WSs are able to immediately change all of their lying ways. Some stumble their way through it, learning through their mistakes and eventually getting there. Some never change. I hope your H just stumbled.

Hugs.

I wouldn't hand over too much trust this early in the game. It takes a long time for even the harder working FWS's to work enough on themselves to beat their old behaviors. Hell, my FWH is still stumbling on his way up.

The setbacks can cut like a DDay. Be gentle with yourself and know that the roller coaster will slow down again.

In the meantime, your WH needs to do some major introspection on how damaging his "self-protecting" lies are. This needs to be fixed from the foundation, and he needs to know that it's ok to make mistakes (depending on the nature...) but lying about them afterwards is just going to drive more nails into the coffin.

(((heforgotme)))

I suggest focusing on your own healing for a start. Get your feelings of grief, anger, and fear out in the open and let them go - just noticing them gets pretty far to getting them out of your body.

Notice that in not sleeping or eating, you're punishing yourself for something your H did. (Most of us do it, but in 28+ months, this is the first time I've figured this out!) Aim to take care of your self instead.

Remind yourself that you're not betting your life on your H or your M; you're just betting the way you live. You can keep yourself healthy - you can thrive - no matter what your H does.

On SI we tend to think in terms of R, S/D, or Limbo. In fact, Shirley Glass defines a stage of 'working on the M'. It's not R, but the work you do while you're working on the M will help you no matter what outcome you experience.

You can offer R, work on your M, observe your H to see if he's a good candidate for R, and let your observations lead naturally to your decision.

I wouldn't commit to R if my WS still lied, but I'd work on my M - unless and until my WS hit my limit. 5 months out isn't a lot of time for your H to change into a great partner. This incident could be showing who he will be, but it could also just be a step toward his own mental health. Only you can tell, although you may need some time to see how he develops.

Being betrayed is a big trauma. It hurts a lot more and a lot longer than one thinks it should...but you can get through this and thrive.

[This message edited by sisoon at 12:00 PM, May 6th (Monday)]

((((heforgotme)))

Stay strong.

And don't be afraid of the truth.

((more hugs))

It's so hard, when it's as new as it is for you. Being hyper-alert, which is highly understandable, takes a heck of a toll on your body and mind. And everything is so much more intense.

I remember well my FWH lying to me about how he paid for a $2 parking ticket at the doctor's office. He just reflexively lied to me because he was 1) worried that I would get mad at him for the method of payment (his secret credit card that we were closing out) and 2) as he told me, he had gotten so much into the habit of lying to me that it was almost like a normal action. How f-d up was that?

It took some time for him to re-wire his brain to where telling me the truth was the only option. It sounds so simple, but he actually had an entire process that his IC gave him to do that re-wiring, and our MC hammered home to him that every time he told me ANY type of lie, that it put another crack in the foundation of our marriage. But he kept trying. And on my part, when he would tell me a truth, especially if it was painful, I would have to remember to take a big breath, thank him for being honest, and then deal with whatever came up in a somewhat calm manner. Yeah, that took a lot of practice for me too, because believe you me, I wanted to scream STOP LYING YOU UNMENTIONABLE SWEARWORD at him. But I had to make it "safe" in a way, for him to tell me the truth. It's pretty screwed up, isn't it, when you have to make such elaborate mental preparations for something that seems so simple as telling the truth.

That was a Big Thing to get across to him. That a lie, any lie, about any subject, was going to set off a trigger of distrust. And for us, to get across to me that I absolutely could not lose it every time because I wanted to encourage the behavior. I've trained dogs, so the example used was, you teach a dog to come to you by making it a good thing. You don't teach a dog to come to you by beating it every time it doesn't come.

My fWH had Dday #1, where the big lie was that the PA was only an EA.(and of course the lies about the LTA while it was going on--which were actually relatively few since he tied it to emergency calls at work and I never missed him) He lied about that to me and his IC for the next 18 months. In the meantime he lied about texts to a new "friend" and what nonprofessional activities they were doing (which were running, but he still lied about it since he figured I wouldn't like it). For 17 years he had been lying about a brief A (I had caught them kissing, they both swore that was all it was). He lied about going out after work with coworkers, which is how his boundaries ended up blurred with the OW. THen on Dday #2, he started out lying, then finally started coming clean about the LTA. He was completely truthful about that (and the brief earlier A) but still lied about the new friend.

It was probably 6 weeks after Dday #2 when he finally "broke" (this was when I got his current cell phone records and we both could see how much he had been calling the new friend). He said (and cried) "no more lies."

And I truly think since then he has been truthful. He really feels at peace about it. What he needed to do was to finally put my needs at least equal to his own (instead of the selfishness he had always exhibited) and realize that I DESERVED the truth, that our lives were entwined and he finally felt attached enough to me to do that.

Before that he treated me a bit like the warden who was getting in the way of his fun. Hiding anything from me that I wouldn't like. Yikes!

Hopefully, heforgotme, your WH will finally mature and see the light about this. It's just immature and selfish to lie in general, and completely toxic to R.

((((heforgotme))))

The lies after the fact can kill progress. I have BTDT. But the things that others have said about the mind of a WS are true. It's as though they get their brains so screwed up as they live in that fog of WS land that they forget how to be a person of integrity.

He needs to work with a good IC to figure out how to be a person who can live an honest life and be someone who deserves you.

Thanks guys. Your responses help a lot. I think this thing may be a dealbreaker for me and it's so hard to think about. We have tried so hard and come so far. But if I can't believe him, there is not much point in continuing. I am just thoroughly heartbroken all over again. And I just don't know what I'm supposed to do anymore.

Many hugs to all. Especially to those going through something worse than finding a stupid watch.

xo, hfm

(((heforgotme)))

I, too, struggle with the slow truths that come out...and the ability of our WS's to continue to lie is cause for concern....but this is what was broken in WS's BEFORE the A...and it will take strong, uncomfortable work for them to fix this....and that is the part that WS's just dont like.

BS's dont like this hard work either...and we have broken parts in us too....but we are broken in different ways.

Thats my Zen answer....a real part of me thinks "Just how many times must WS's witness this destructive cycle before they realize they have the power to change it?"

I subscribe to the theory that change occurs ONLY when the pain of same is worse then the pain of change. Makes me wonder just how painful it is for WS's to actually tell the truth? How can it be so much more uncomfortable to be honest and help the one they love then it is to lie and continue to add pain and injury to this same person?

Hang in there. This is a process....none of us are getting this right the first past through.

God be with us all.