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Someone very close to me is basically an OW and its driving me crazy.

I have had several friends over the years who have no problem trying to fight for or win over a man that is not their own due to there own selfishness and brokenness.

It sucks and I wish there was something I could do.

ETA:

This person in particular after being on and off with the married man for the last 3 yrs is constantly asking him to help around her house are to drive her to weekly dr appointments. Justification on her mind being that they dont have sex anymore but when they did he was promising her he would leave his wife. Now "hes the only person who can help her theough her illness." She doesn't hide their "friendship" but damn near brags about it to others. She's "just friends" with him but yet dressed up like for dates anytime he's going to be around and stocks her house with his favorite food and drinks and such. stays in touch with his mother always doing stuff for her trying to win her over I guess. Basically trying to appear to be the better choice.

I've tried to talk people out of it. And explain it to them if he shoe was o. The other foot to no avail. All I can do is warn of karma, I guess....

ETA more: now here's the icing on the cake. She just called me complaining that she's upset cause hes upset cause every time she ask him for help he wants sex and she's "just friends" because he hasn't left his wife as promised.

What i hear is "I'm going to withhold sex from u because you won't give me what I want (leaving your wife) in hopes that you will. Obviously I'm not withholding on the basis of morality because if that we're the case I would have stopped this Emotional and physical part of this along time ago. "

This is a close family member of mine... How f' n pathetic!!

[This message edited by whensenough at 12:10 PM, May 25th (Saturday)]

Girls compete with each another

Women empower one another

I am short on time but will come back later to expound upon the above remark.

[This message edited by letting_go at 11:22 AM, May 25th (Saturday)]

My bff of many years was like that, I dropped her when I got married. For all I knew, my husband was on her list too. As my male friend puts it, she's the other woman because she's not good enough to be THE woman. Overplayed Toy He Eventually Releases. I too wonder why they don't think more of themselves. My WS thought so little of her during the A, he bought her a Happy Meal and made her pay him back! I will never understand it.

I do believe some dont realize they are the OW. For the ones that do know they are messing with a married man, I guess they are equally broken people. She or he pathetically needs the ego stroke of having someone else's spouse betray their vows and they feel like its a challenge and they won. Yet these pathetic losers fail to understand that they are not winning anything. Their lover is married and likely still sleeping or at least sharing intimacy with their spouse. They are being used and they deserve it.

I am not jealous of my wh's ow. I pity her. It must suck to be so pathetic that you have to latch on to a married man rather than finding a available man to build a real relationship with.

She's the loser, not me. Sloppy seconds is not so appetizing

This has bothered me too. Why be with someone who can't commit to you? Who can't really share his life with you? I know some WS make promises of leaving their marriage for the OP, but still, I don't buy it. If a man isn't all in, I wouldn't be either. But that's just me (of course that's partly hindsight on my part). So here's my theory's:

A) Their self esteem is so low, that the thought of a married man sacrificing his marriage/wife/life for them is a total ego boost. He must be a great catch, right? Since he's married, there's a woman that desired him. If she can steal him away, then she's "better" than the wife....

B) The OP doesn't really want a commitment, so being with a married AP takes that off the table. They can do what they want, live their life without being accountable to anyone. The MOP can't tell them what to do, they have no right, since they are married themselves. (Assuming the OP is single).

I'm sure there's other reasons.... But these are what I came up with when thinking about my WH's OW and her situation. i also think she saw my H as her KISA. It was either one of those, or she's just a pos tramp, and if he lowered himself to that, then I just couldn't respect him. (My own internal rationalizations). In any case, I'm sure almost all OP's have low self esteem, lack of self respect, and inability for empathy. I'm sure many are "good people," parents, church goers, have good friends, etc, but somehow they are "broken" too....

I am not jealous of my wh's ow. I pity her. It must suck to be so pathetic that you have to latch on to a married man rather than finding a available man to build a real relationship with.

She's the loser, not me. Sloppy seconds is not so appetizing

^^^^^^^^This! Exactly!

I think they might get the feeling of 'winning' or besting the W. Also agree w/rationale that since somebody M'd him, he must be a good catch. I think OW feel like it validates them that this superior specimen of man (yes, I'm being sarcastic) is choosing them over the W, so obviously they must also be a good catch. KWIM?

Also agree that they are emotionally unavailable. I can't see how anybody who is emotionally available could be with somebody who isn't. If the OP is M'd, obviously, they aren't.

I imagine for all the same reasons that men are ok with being the OM.

Funny thing is I know all this catering and niceness is the typical OW act. The damsel in distress act. The same type of manipulating things OW of my WS tried to do to try and make me look like I'm not worth it while she tried to appear to be.

How easy it is to play a role when a person doesn't have to experience real life with you OW. So easy to tell someone what they want to hear to boost there ego and hide your flaws when someone is only giving you their spare time. Eventually they will see who you are full time. Eventually they realize what they had was better all along and that you, the ow flaws, are way worst then the person they said vows to. Eventually they realize they left out the variables to real life while engaged in fantasy land with you.

Eventually the WS will realize you, OW, were just as selfish, manipulative, broken, ill motived , heartless , dis honest , fake, deceptive, as him self . And most of the time for you , OW, to accept i part -time man you truly know deep inside that tou dont have much going for yourself. Eventually WS will realize the type of person it takes to not give a damn about destroying a family life or marriage.

This is not to the accidental OW, but to the many who knew they were with a taken man. I personally know so many. And the justifications they have are sickening. Seems like all the WS follow a pattern of thinking and behavior and all OW as well.

My WS OW new about me. One even added me on fb. ( I no longer add people i dont know) But thats a whole nother post.

I think a lot of it has to do with creating an alternate reality in one's head about what is actually transpiring.

Selfishness leads to justification leads to believing that the AP's situation is a special little unicorn because the AP is somehow worthy of the attention no matter where it comes from.

Along with my belief that NOBODY understands how much this fucking hurts until they have been through it, I think that in many cases OW/OM have zero clue the damage they are inflicting. Doesn't make it right, but it does help to explain why this happens so often.

When I was in college one of my best friends was this guy that I was sure I wasn't attracted to. One night I was upset about something, and a little drunk, and he swooped in all KISA style to take care of me. We ended up kissing, and he said, "I can't do this, I just started dating someone." and I distinctly remember being shocked and pulling away and saying, "Oh, I'm so sorry. You're right. We should stop."

Then we didn't stop.

This gf was a faceless, nameless person to me and while I was stupidly indulging in making myself feel better about my bad night with this friend, I didn't allow how this would affect her to enter my consciousness.

The friend and I didn't talk for about a month, and when we did again they had broken up. I felt badly, but it wasn't until 10 years later, when my husband cheated on me, that it all came flooding back and I wondered how in the hell I could have been so inconsiderate.

I hope my story doesn't trigger anyone too badly. I want to share this shameful perspective in the hopes that it sheds some light from "the other side". I was being stupid and feeling sorry for myself, and I let the brain chemicals take over. It's not an excuse, but it has been an insight as to why an OW might be "ok" with stealing intimacy from a MM. She just isn't thinking of the BS, and even if she is a little, it's not enough for her to allow herself to feel enough guilt and reason to stop. And that sucks.

Jrazz thank you for some insight to the mind set. I truly didn't understand it. It's a speculation from my pov and I really like to gain insight from OW and or WS because obviously these acts are justified I the minds of those who do them at the time.

I would love to hear the perspective from a LOng term OW making long term plans to basically try and manipulate a married man into being with them.

To me that's seems a lot more diabolical then your situation Jrazz. I may be wrong here but I don't think you we're trying to convince him into being with you. It does shed some light though when you say some people just aren't able to understand the damage they are doing until they have to walk in those shoes. Seems plausible.

I actually went out last weekend to see a band I like with some friends. There was a foursome of couples there. I went to the bathroom and when I returned to my friends, one of the guys from the foursome (girlfriend conspicuously missing), grabbed my forearm and said, "hey, you are beautiful. Wanna come outside with me for a second?" It horrified and disgustef me immediately. How disrespectful to the woman he was there with. I immediately thought of the ow. She knows and does it anyway. What a scumbag!

I don't think they are OK with being the OW/OM. There are a few of those out there that just want the sex and not a relationship, but for the most part I think they are just lonely, selfish, broken women/men. They think that this person who is also paying them attention is as into them as they are. Most have no clue until they are really involved that this person really doesn't love them or want them.

In the beginning, when OW called me out of the blue to tell me about their LTA, I actual felt sorry for her in a way. (I know hit me with a 2x4). I could tell that she was just as confused and upset as I was. The only difference is she knew about me and I knew nothing about her. He had lied to her from the beginning. Telling her we were getting a divorce (he never even mentioned a divorce), telling her he made a mistake by marrying me instead of her (she was an old former GF), he gave her an engagement ring, texted her all day and night, etc... She honestly thought they were in love and were going to be together forever once I was out of the picture. He told her I didn't love him and we hadn't had sex in forever (not true at all). He basically used her and then tossed her aside when he was done with her. Now he doesn't seem to grasp why she won't just go away and leave us alone. As I tell him, he made the elephant in the room. Now she doesn't want to let go of what she spent the last few years of life investing in. While he was just after sex, she was a middle aged, multiple time divorced woman looking for a husband to spend her life with. In a way I guess I could understand it better if he had of been in love with her. To throw away our marriage for a roll in the hay to me is the ultimate betrayal. I do believe him when he says he never loved her. He did say he cared about her and felt really bad for what he did to her, but I haven't really seen that it bothered him that bad. So I think that when we say they are Ok with being the OW, I don't think that is always correct. They were just looking for love in all the wrong places and don't think of the fall out in the end.

A particular OW in my family has said, "But if he were really happy, why would he be calling me instead of his wife?" A student who worked with me was having an EA with another coworker who was engaged, and she said, "But it sounds like he's not certain of the engagement?" From what I heard with these two women, they seemed to want to pretend that if somehow there were difficulties or disconnections or insecurities within the APs' primary relationships, then their primary relationship must not be legitimate somehow. Looking at emotions instead of commitments. Trying to negotiate boundaries using something subjective. I'm guessing that they took their chemical feelings of attraction as evidence that it was "true love", like you see in the Disney movies, when in reality healthy love is built.

Until I came to SI, I didn't really get that true love is built. I'd look at the people who had passion or crushes, including my H, and wonder if that somehow was more real or legitimate. It isn't. Those sparks are wonderful, but if they contradict a commitment you've already made... Another thing is, the OWs I'm talking of saw the green light from the APs and took it. Decided that if the MMs didn't need boundaries then neither did they since they were in love and since the MM was giving them a chance. They seemed to see it as a challenge to win him. Got the same sense from my mother's OW, though with her... Hard to be objective about her. She grinned in my face every Tuesday night at family dinners, starting weeks or months before she finally broke up my family. She must have seen my mother as quite a prize, considering my mother's ex (my stepmother) was the OW's friend first, plus their brokenness in a certain area was similar. Again, chemicals, and disregarding of boundaries in favor of feelings and urges. Poor impulse control.

This is based on wh's ow, my exfriend who is a mow, and a guest ow SI had a couple years back...

They want what they want period. In their mind their love is not married. If the wife comes into the picture she is a pesky fly or some uber bitch out to ruin her (ow's) relationship. A wife is merely someone in the way.

I dont see the ws or ap as being broken. Heck, a person can be broken but have morals, values and respect. I consider myself broken but I dont cross boundaries

It comes down to this: complete and utter selfishness. A total disregard for anyone but themselves.

[This message edited by sullymeishadomi at 2:09 PM, May 25th (Saturday)]

My FWH and MOW explicitly were NOT looking to start a life together. Why? Because--get this--their families "came first"! Yessiree bob, they made that clear from the beginning! (I hear you all snorting.). They just wanted something on the side.

I feel so happy that they were so considerate of their spouses. (Sarcasm intended.)

I imagine for all the same reasons that men are ok with being the OM.

I agree with this.

I strongly dislike gender generalizations as relates to infidelity. Every affair involves two people. Quite often, they are of opposite gender.

My husband is an OM. He did to another family what was done to mine.

I don't know what makes anyone okay with being an OP. Knowing the struggle that each WS I've known has had to determine his/her whys, I would imagine there are as many reasons as there are OPs.

Having worn a few hats, BW,MOW,WW, I know when I embarked on an affair with a MOM whose wife was pregnant (nice huh?) that my boundaries were so crappy in many aspects of my life, that the BW didn't even enter into my head (except as a control freak who was making my AP miserable...yeah I know...cue eye roll). I was also under the illusion that the AP should be caring about her, and as he obviously didn't then why should I? And there was also the little matter of the MOW holding out the carrot of 'maybe' leaving his wife for me, and due to my own inabilities at that time to examine my patterns of behaviour and why I was so fucked, I clung to that carrot like it was the last food item on earth. Yup. Embarrassing, shameful and sad I realize now.

I have also since learn't of course with much examination of myself and my shitty hurtful behaviours over the years, that I harmed her and her children greatly. It's a shameful realization to see how much damage we inflict because we haven't looked at our own hurts.

However, As much as BS may like to paint OW as somehow another species, we/they are just as fucked up,lonely,hurting as everyone else, and have yet to go down the path of caring enough about them/ourselves to expect an honest loving relationship with someone who is AVAILABLE. It's a cruel thing to do to someone especially in instances where the OW/OM is single and the WW married. They are offering something they have no intention of giving. Its selfish, immature and downright mean, and says more about the WW than anything else - cue major ego stroke at expense of everyone else. And it fucks people up and over - OW's and OM's included

(of course if you have just posted to JFO you could give a flying fuck about the AP, and thats perfectly normal).

Its selfish, immature and downright mean, and says more about the WW than anything else - cue major ego stroke at expense of everyone else. And it fucks people up and over - OW's and OM's included

(of course if you have just posted to JFO you could give a flying fuck about the AP, and thats perfectly normal).

I totally understand what you are sayin. I did not mend to offend any former OW or devalue the WS/ AP. my WS owed me loyalty. No pne else. The OW in my case was truly a desperate hardcore drug addict manipulative, broken and sad woman. What I don't understand is how my WS could have fell for the dream she was trying to sell and vice versa. But I guess people can be convincing.

I'm not even wondering why the ow should not do it to betray another "nameless" woman. Albeit it kinda true. Selfishness nd lack of empathy explains that one away.

I'm wondering why so many people close to ME are ok with it. I'm talking about immediate family members and friends. I don't know one that hasn't been a knowing OW at one point In Their lives. It's hard for me to understand being surrounded by person OW, OM, WW , WH. It's scary. To be a person who values practices honesty,morality ,selflessness and such and be completely surrounded by people who are ok with these type of lifestyles.

Even If i cared less about a AP'a spouse I still would not feel happy knowing I was #2 ever. Knowing he goes home to another woman and sleeps in her bed. Helps with her bills. And has a family with her. That i cant see him or speak to him anytime i want. Or that im nor wverurhing he needs because if i was he would solely be with me. I don't understand how that could feel like love to me.

I've seen the hurt most OW go through when they are constantly reminded that they are not who they want to be to this person. My family member continues to put herself in this position and gets mad and hurt as if she doesn't realize she will never have what she's looking for on this path. I've never seen any one the AP leave there SO for any of these close friends and family members of mine.

I wasn't offended whensenough.

This entire world is full of hurting people who make fucked up choices every day. And as my BFF says often "show me a fucking grown up, coz I don't see many"!

Hence my tag line.

Edited for clarity

[This message edited by ophelia24 at 12:57 AM, May 26th (Sunday)]