SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm a real optimist - and always have been - even in the worst times.

I've crawled out of the ashes of my FWH's A's with a lot of hard work, counseling, and effort.

I feel like I have a great life - great kids, good job, financially stable (most of the time), great extended family and friends, a nice house, neighborhood, and town, and a good relationship with my FWH.

Here's the kicker....He doesn't (or very, very rarely) say I love you or you're pretty anymore... It used to make me cry and feel sad a lot.. But now that we are over 3 1/2 years out since DDay and he's had NC and no As since then, I don't cry about that or get emotionally upset about that anymore.. I've somehow learned to accept it because everything else is pretty darn good.

I've talked to him about it and have tried to express how I feel - and he doesn't say too much except - I hear you - and he knows I would like (or need) to hear from him verbally that he loves me, he thinks I'm pretty, or I'm special. When I write this down telling all of you this, it makes me look like I'm so damn insecure and needy.

I'm really not... I'm quite a confident person and pretty darn secure. And that's what I probably hate most about the As - I am more insecure and less confident about myself.

And not that I need it.. I just would like more verbal resassurance that he does love me.. and he does think I'm special.. and that I'm pretty. The problem is.. and what my insecurity sees... that he doesn't. not the way I think it should be between us... how it should be between a wife and a husband of 29 years.. or what I believe in for us..

It feels like more of a partnership/friendship with sex occassionally - between 2 people with a whole lot of history, memories, and deeply intwined family and friends.

Despite all of his flaws, and his As, and is idiosyncrasies that drive me crazy, I DO love him... I DO think he's handsome... despite that we are in our mid-50s - and we both know our realities - that we aren't 20 anymore.

It's like he just won't let his emotions go there with me.. I do believe he loves me for who I am.. but he lost that loving feeling for me - after he "thought" he was in love with that last A woman. He thought she was his soulmate.. He thought she was beautiful (she was skinnier than me - but I'm a pretty woman too).. It's like he's never really let that go... and after all of this time... I don't think he ever will.

Sometimes, I do get really sad. On our Anniversary (#29), no card.. no I love yous.. just a last minute note and bag of candy... I was deeply hurt (and told him). So then my birthday came around last week... he did go out and picked out a card for me... No I love you type ...just a nice card.. and said some nice things about me.. but then no "Love, FWH" at the end. Just his name.

I didn't say anything this time. It just hurt and makes me sad.

It's just the way it is now. And I really don't think it will change. This is my new marriage.

But it's NOTHING like I thought it was going to be after we decided to R... and work so hard at it.

But, I am looking forward to the next 20 years together, grandchildren will be here in the next 5 to 10 years and we really do have a lot of fun together... It just doesn't feel like a marriage as I believed in.

Though I know Marriages usually aren't... BUT the one fundamental expectation I have (and I think most would to -for at least a healthy one) is I love yous - often - compliments often - and the desire to make the other spouse feel special..

Sometimes, I can't believe we are actually considered married - because of this basic expecation is missing in ours.

Sorry for the long note.

I would appreciate any insight or experiences.

Thanks.

Hi-

I know how you feel. Even though my FWH does tell me he loves me, I feel sometimes, "Is that all there is?"

Others will be by with good advice.

Just wanted you to know you were heard.

I could have written your post and relate to it so much. I know my husband loves me but he is emotionally unavailable. He listens to me and responds to my words but he can't express it so he's words and action don't mesh. I've learned to live with it because I'm happy with my life and okay with the marriage. Just wanted you to know that you were heard loud and clear.

I drive myself crazy sometimes thinking - was he always this way - and did I just "think" that he said I love you more in previous years....

However, we were cleaning up the garage the other day and I came across a birthday card or an anniversary card.. and he was saying all of these heartfelt things like, "I'm so glad I married you", "Thank you for marrying me", "I can't believe you chose me", "you're so beautiful and talented", "I am so lucky"... Then he signs, "Love you forever"...

I know that sounds so high schoolish or something .. but that was about 10 years ago and we'd been married for at least 15 years - and been through a lot.

I know he USE TO REALLY FEEL that way. And that's what makes me sad.. I really believe he DOES NOT feel that way about me anymore.

And for some strange reason, I feel like if I had kicked his _ _ _ out that DDay, then maybe he would appreciate me more - AND see how damn lucky he is that I gave him another chance.... But I also know him well enough... he probably would have ran straight to her... and tried that life for awhile... and I would not have taken him back... and/or there would have been SO much damage to everyone.

I just miss feeling that loved by my H. Because it was there at one time. I think it's still there - but it's like he won't allow himself to go there.

Is this maybe a love language issue? Sounds like yours may be words of affirmation and he's not doing that :-( Have you read the book 5 love languages? Maybe he needs to read that? What does he say when you tell him how sad you are?

You are not being insecure and needy. You are a woman who needs something from her husband. (((HUGS)))) I know how much it hurts when the I love you's stop, it was one of my WH's "symptoms" of his A :-(

sodamnlost..

I did read that book and he read part of it. That was back in our MC days.. maybe even before...

He is the more physical type and he would complain he needed more "touches".

I have expressed I need more verbal. And I also fell into, needing more acknowledgement for the many "things that I do - work hard, deal with the finances, deal with the kid logistics".

He somewhat acknowledge it and admits he's not very good at it.. But the bottom line is - he USED to do it a lot more. And he somehow, just wont say the I Love Yous... You're beautiful, etc.. and he USED to do that too...

What's crazy is that I did work harder and trying to communicate his Love Language of "touch" - and even that now, I don't think is as important to him. And if I stopped, I don't think it would bother him as much as it did say - 5 years ago.

I think that was just one of his "complaints" about me as he was searching for what he "thought" was going to make him happy. Because once he got more, he still wasn't happy.

Very frustrating.

How much IC did he do?

Are you willing to stay married to him in this condition? If you were to leave, what would he do? He obviously feels pretty safe to treat you poorly.

Recovery after an affair never really stops. He has to spend the rest of his life going out of his way to be a better partner to you. He is not. I'd want to know why he thinks he can half-ass it after what he did to you.

((WDIG))

This sounds very much to me like you're settling and trying to convince yourself to be happy with it. The problem is, you're not happy and it really isn't enough. Why should it be? Why should you settle for a friends with benefits type of relationship with your husband? He was able to share those things with you before but refuses to now. Why?

Are you settling so that SHE doesn't get the prize? Because right now, he's just a boobie prize.

It's like he just won't let his emotions go there with me.. I do believe he loves me for who I am.. but he lost that loving feeling for me - after he "thought" he was in love with that last A woman. He thought she was his soulmate.. He thought she was beautiful (she was skinnier than me - but I'm a pretty woman too).. It's like he's never really let that go... and after all of this time... I don't think he ever will.

Sometimes, I do get really sad. On our Anniversary (#29), no card.. no I love yous.. just a last minute note and bag of candy... I was deeply hurt (and told him). So then my birthday came around last week... he did go out and picked out a card for me... No I love you type ...just a nice card.. and said some nice things about me.. but then no "Love, FWH" at the end. Just his name.

I didn't say anything this time. It just hurt and makes me sad.

It's just the way it is now. And I really don't think it will change.

You.Deserve.Better.

I know I really do... and I'm settling. That's probably what makes me sad.

But don't couples who haven't gone through As "settle" too? Not saying it's right - but a lot do for the sake of the family.

Breaking up the family because I'm not totally happy seems very selfish.

And yes, I guess it's not worth it to me to do it to my kids.

I remember thinking even before the A - that I would stay with my H -who wasn't very nice for many years before DDay - because I wouldn't do it to the kids - and I made the committment.

I guess I'm also the ultimate optimist and really believe that it will continue to get better and better. He's come a long way.

He did IC for about 1 or so and then I think he just got tired of the guy telling him he was a little screwed up and needed to work on himself. He learned a lot and did better himself. But my FWH had had enough - though he should have continued in my book. He had (has) some real FOO issues with his parents (especially his father) - who are still alive and controlling him - even at their age of 84!!!!

So, your kids are grown now. What's holding you back? Why don't you deserve to be happy? Fulfilled? Cherished?

Do marriages have up and down times? Hell yes. But what brings them back up again are two partners, working in concert, to make it happen. What you are doing is what, at my work, we call this one man baseball. Hit the ball, drag them to first base. Hit the ball, drag them to second. It's exhausting. I do it at work, but I sure as heck don't do it at home.

People decide to stay married for many reasons. I would ask you to consider why settling is an option for yourself. I made my spouse go back to IC in about the 4th year out. I decided things weren't good enough. That he was conflict avoidant and possibly passive aggressive, and I feared my real future with him. I guess I fear that for you as well. That your WH's passivity in your relationship will make him vulnerable to another affair. He hasn't gottne to the meat of the issue. And that's damn scary and I sure don't want you to have to go through this all again.

Rebreather...

Good advice. Two of the children are out of the house and have graduated college.

Our two youngest are still in HS (Senior and Junior). So, at the end of 2015 they both will be off to college (or in college). So, that's one reason why I do stick around. I like our family unit at home right now.

It's encouraging that you were able to communicate with your H to go back to IC. I think about that sometimes - and maybe will bring that up . It will be 4 years for us come this November since DDay.

When they say 3 - 5 years, they meant it.

What a ride this has been. I hate it ... hate it.. hate it...

I'm a better person in so many, many ways in all my relationships.. But I definitely lost a real chunk of confidence and self esteem that probably will never totally be back... Poof.. loss of innocence and beliefs... loss of feeling loved to the core.. even if it wasn't all the time.. I felt like that with my FWH... Not even close now.

But I definitely lost a real chunk of confidence and self esteem that probably will never totally be back...

Have you considered taking yourself back to IC to work on this? I know what you mean, though. It took me a long time to feel really strong.

You can demand things of him. You are in the marriage too. He doesn't get to make all the decisions just by being passive. Be careful of the person who agrees to do things and then never does. It is classic passive aggressive behavior. But if he knows he has nothing to lose by doing nothing, then he'll never change.

You can demand things of him. You are in the marriage too. He doesn't get to make all the decisions just by being passive. Be careful of the person who agrees to do things and then never does. It is classic passive aggressive behavior.

I can demand that he goes back to IC but I would hope that he sees the value and would want to for the sake of the M as well as he and I.

It's hard sometimes to try and explain how I feel and lay out what I need in "I love you's" and "verbal affirmations"... but I also think he knows how important that is to me by now. And he seems to choose not to.

But if he knows he has nothing to lose by doing nothing, then he'll never change.

I don't know if he is capable of consciously thinking he has nothing to lose. I think he has made changes and I'm not sure if he's capable (or wants to) change any more. I think he's spent to much of his life having others take care of him - and make decisions for him.

I went to IC a couple of times at the begininning and she really didn't think I needed to - if I didn't feel like I did. I'm not sure if I do now or not. I'm not sure what it would do for me. I can't imagine anything we would talk about that would help me anymore be confident and strong. I have such a wealth of a support system - they help me with that.

I've talked to my H about going back to MC - but he thinks we are getting along pretty well - which we are.

It's so hard to explain to anyone how I feel. I think the only ones that get it are the ones on this site.

Since he was much more verbally loving before the affair, I'm thinking this isn't an issue of personality or love language.

Is it possible that the affair made his self esteem so low and compounded insecurities from childhood? Maybe he's covering for that lack of confidence and security by withholding affirmation from you.

My WH has FOO issues that made him feel worthless and gave him fear of abandonment. But when that stuff gets triggered, instead of seeking reassurance, he withdraws his affection from me. Acts angry and disdainful towards me.

Just a thought.

((WDIGN))

I suspect you really aren't okay with this. I wouldn't be. The idea that he may be thinking fondly of the OW and pining for her--that would be torture for me. And I too would have massive trouble not getting affirmation.

And your teenagers may be internalizing things you would rather they not. My kids were apparently aware on some level not of my H's LTA but of his deep seated issues. Our daughter told me preDDay that she wouldn't be married to him if she were me because "he is so selfish and lies to himself". When our son (accidentally) found about my H's CSA he said "that explains a lot". And here at the time I was clueless (and there was no A going on).

So sacrificing your happiness for theirs could backfire.

My heart goes out to you.

sailorgirl,

That sounds a lot like my H. I think he had serious self esteem issues (and still does) growing up under his overbearing father (and still does - even though is father is 84 and my H is 56).

Quite often it seems like we are really getting close and I've feeling good about us - and then boom - something happens to him and we get into this major fight. It's like he doesn't want to or knows how to.

His IC was just diving into this stuff about his father - and how he saw his father in me.. and react to me like I was his father... he would act out towards me (eventhough he would NEVER do that to his father - just me). Then he stopped going to IC.

I know he feels very confident that I would (or never would) have abandon him.. and that's probably 1/2 our problem now - because he knows how damn loyal I am - and he even said one time - I know you would never leave me. So, I think he's overconfident and a little bit too comfortable. I wish he felt more afraid of me leaving him.

He used to think - and was scared of being alone and couldn't imagine life without me. Now, he says he's not afraid anymore - and he could.

Yeah right.....

Even though you are 3 yrs post d-day you can still go back to MC.

It sounds as if you are not OK with this situation.

The fact that he used to be more romantic and did say those things to you but now does not seems a bit strange.

And...the fact that you wonder if he is still thinking about the OW is heartbreaking.

His behavior may have nothing to do with the OW or the affair but if I were you I would need to know.

Marriage counseling might be the place for you to bring up your concerns.

Another option could be something like Retrouvaille-where the focus is on learning how to communicate again as a couple.

Yes. I think some MC would be good for us. We can have some honest conversations along with the guidance and input from the MC.

I think you're right that his behaviour right now isn't about the OW or the A... It's just that the A with OW#2 really changed his outlook on things.

Thank you everyone for weighing in on my situation. I do appreciate it.

And my advice to those in the early stages of R.. I can honestly say that you will feel better over time -about yourself and your M (hopefully). You may hit walls and roadblocks, but those too can be overcome. And no matter what happens to the M, you'll be surprised how much you learn about yourself and how you improve, in so many ways, even a better person.

Although my H seems to be much less forthcoming with the ILY's too, what I have noticed is that he is much more helpful about doing things for me.

My love language is quality time, followed by words of affirmation (but it has to be sincere). I'm wondering if H secretly read the "Love Languages" book (I asked him to read it and he said he would but as far as I know, he didn't) and wrongly thinks I'm an Acts of Service person. Or maybe, in the early days of R, I didn't return his ILY's often enough. It could also be that his words of affirmation in early R weren't very believable to me so he took another direction. I don't know. What I do know is that he is just as physically affectionate as always and spends just as much quality time (his love languages), so I feel pretty secure. He just seems to have made a substitution.

But I would really, really like it if he would spew verbal devotions my way. And mean it.

I think sometimes R is sort of like Friends with Benefits. I see it a lot here. More people divorce or have an OK marriage than have a great marriage.

Question is: why are you settling for that?