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Sorry, Abbondad, there is no strikeout key on here.

You need to stop w/the emotional response: you made your bed. Instead, OK. Neutral, you've heard her, you aren't arguing w/her feelings.

The more you argue w/her feelings, the more enmeshed she becomes, regardless of whether or not she really believes them. As in she'll disagree just to disagree.

Dial it way back, as others are telling you. Kids/finances. NOTHING else.

I wish you would go back and read ALL these pages written for you. Just in this ONE day (today)...HOW many times have you engaged with her? You keep saying you get it...you know you shouldn't...and then do the EXACT OPPOSITE. At this point, for your own health, you should quit ANY verbal communication with her. And perhaps just use email if your text will be read by your son.

I hope that one day you can really start NC, but it's clear that's not today.

And because you are not willing to go NC with her, get yourself a lawyer...not a mediator....who will take over the communication for you. Yes, it will be expensive, but you not only need protection FOR yourself in the divorce, you need protection FROM yourself.

I have followed your posts and refrained from posting, but really I must chime in:

1) Make a list of the local "sharks" and start setting up consults.

2) Hire the shark you like best.

3) FILE!

The emotional shit takes time. It does. It is a special kind of crazy you have going on there and that is not going to stop; however you can help protect your finances, your kids' interest and your longterm viability, by taking this step.

Also, please get a different family counselor, Seriously, some of the advice you have been given defies logic.

Last, a texted picture to me once landed on my 3 year old's IPOD. It happens.

Dad, hugs to you tonight.) I do understand that what you want is your family back together, husband wife and two kids all happily living together under one roof. Sadly, unless a miracle occurs, that ain't happening:( Please, for the sake of your kids and your well-being, try to make a good life for you & your kiddos- minus your WW. I wish you strength, you can PM at any time. All the best Jamie (((Dad)))

Dude, stop calling her your wife.

Dude, stop calling her your wife

This actually might be helpful. The term "husband" or "wife" carries many powerful feelings and assumptions with it...ones you no longer need to associate with your STBXW. It might be an exercise in detachment to call her STBX, or you can get really creative and fun with it like many of us in D/S. Mine XH is poopsmear. I just picture this skid mark in a smelly pair of underwear when I refer to him that way. Certainly helps me not have fond feelings to do so. Perhaps some other creative SIers have some suggestions for a moniker for her?

Good morning, friends,

Just a positive update re: baby steps and small victories.

I had my son last night. (I don't usually reference my sweet six year old daughter only because she doesn't really understand what is going on and thus is fine, at least for now. She thinks it's cool to have two homes).

He started having anxiety and panic and wanted to go to his mom at her apartment. (Note: when he is at her apartment he has the same reaction and wants to be with me.)

He called his mom (unbeknownst to me) and told her. I told her I'd handle it and he was not going there.

I laid down with him, held him, talked to him, got him to express some of his fears, and ultimately led him through his emotional episode. I let him have a sleepover and he enjoyed his night with dad.

This morning not a word about mom from him. We have fun plans today.

N/C front: wife called him to say goodnight. He said, "Want to say goodnight to daddy?" I indicated to him casually that I didn't, and he said, "Mommy, daddy said he already talked to you." And he hung up.

It was hard for me and I shed some tears after, as well as this morning. (The hardest is going to sleep without her and waking up without her.)

Anyway, I am proud of myself. My vow for today: N/C!

I hope to report success with this tonight.

As always, thank you!

I will agree that your journey has taken alot of hills and valleys. Going NC and doing the 180 is not easy. Many of us on here can tell you that we got beat up ALOT trying to get it thru our thick sculls (and heart) that it was the only way to actual healing.

Like anything else in life you never know you are on the other side until you are *really* on the other side. So take each day with your small victories. Each one leads you to the next.

Wear a rubber band on your wrist, snap it each time you think you are going to call her or email her or text her....sounds so stupid but it really works! Even if she calls you don't pick up the phone. You will start to see a pattern.

You are getting there.

Hugs Abbondad.......

I do not have children with the pig, so my situation is different in that regard....

But I so know the feelings you are having. My Dday was 11.25.12, so in a similar place.

No, I don't want a divorce, and yes, I still love the man I married. Do I want to be in this nightmare, hell no........

Do I want to be married to a man that cheated on me, deceived me for 4 months, the last few weeks we were together, treated me with total contempt and disdain???? The feelings of utter confusion I had during that time, trying to figure out what I did to "deserve" such treatment???? No, I don't.

The loneliness is overwhelming....I miss the life I thought I had.

My son is 23 and away at college. He was 14 when I divorced his Dad (his dad started to get physically abusive with him, he treated me like shit, but when it started with my son, that was it).

What I have found out for myself over the past 6 months, any contact I had with him resulted in gut wrenching pain, hurt and tears. I saw the two of them together and slammed into a very dark place. I use to check up on him, ask friends how he was doing, again, slammed into that pain again, back on a ball on the floor, sobbing....

I decided I couldn't keep doing that.....so I changed my phone numbers, blocked his emails and told my attorney that any further contact went through the attorneys. He was lying regarding any conversation we had (the last was over my moving my son's things out of the house). That opened up the flood gate and he started to text me again. So, that's when I decided to take the action that I did.

Now, my stomach no longer knots up when I hear a text come in, or the phone ring.

I did have a slip though, unblocked his email (moment of weakness) and he did email me last week to ask me for the code to get the messages off the home phone......I immediately went into my computer and blocked his emails again. Did not respond to him. My first reaction when I saw his email was the same pit in my stomach feeling, so I need to protect myself right now and give myself space.

I keep telling myself that the man I married is dead, gone. The person that is there now, is a lying, cheating pig. I have no respect for this pig now.

Good stuff in your latest update abbondad! Glad you have some fun stuff planned with you kids. Make it a point to have something interesting or fun to do with them each time you are with them. It gives them something to look forward to and keeps you busy as well. Watch how focusing on them keeps you calm. The next step will be applying those same principles to yourself. Make a plan of things that you can do when your kids are with her. Staying busy really does help.

Just remember, one day at a time. You are doing great.

Hi Abbondad. I agree that's a great update!

I'd just like to share that I have gone back and forth between which of my kids is having more trouble with the changes.. Sometimes I'm more worried about my 9-year-old, and sometimes my 5-year-old seems to be having more issues. I would recommend spending loving one-on-one time with each of them, letting them each know how special they are..

Hope you have a wonderful day today! Hugs!!

((Dad)) Sounds like you are really heading in a + direction! And you wouldn't be a feeling, loving person if you didn't feel sad @ sleeping without her. But, she is NOT healthy for you & your kiddos, so this too will pass. All the best Jamie

Hi, Everyone,

Thanks for continuing to follow my thread.

Yesterday's 180 was pretty good. N/C until evening, when my son had an anxiety attack wanting his mom and called her. She wanted to talk to me so we did, briefly, about what to do about our son. She is all for more medication, and I am not. He is already on meds as a result of all this.

Anyway, I give myself a B+.

But it was very very hard. I cried throughout the day. It seems to come out of nowhere--no obvious triggers. Very disconcerting to have no control over one's emotions.

I have a question. Actually a fear that I will discuss in therapy today.

My fear is that even after the divorce I will still be in this pain; nothing will have changed except that my life will be even more dismantled. That divorce will not be the empowering or cathartic experience I hope for.

I am not telling myself, "OK then, just stay separated." No. I am just very concerned that I will be even more traumatized by the process, in addition to all the other awful emotions I am currently mired in.

So many people here seem so strong. Did divorce help with this? Were you weaker and in more pain prior to the divorce? What did the divorce do for you in terms of healing?

Thank you!

Abbondad,

I was terrified of divorce, I didn't want my life to change at all!! For two years I was willing to try to work on my marriage, but I think I was alone in that effort. It was like trying to bail out a leaking boat with a hole filled bucket. He ended the A, he was transparent, but he was unwilling to work on any of his own personal problems.

I started to do things that made me happy, went out with friends, started running with my son, lost weight. Found my self confidence again and realized that there was nothing I could do to fix my marriage, and I was no longer happy.

I ended things, we separated, I took over the house and am essentially raising our son on my own as he works out of province a lot.

You know what, I am so much stronger than I ever gave myself credit for. I took up new hobbies, started doing things I never ever considered doing such as martial arts. I have a great time doing things with my son, and my friends. I am so very happy.

Change is not always bad, you will eventally find that strength when you are ready. Don't despair, things will get better and when the time comes and your heart is ready you can find someone who loves you they way you deserve

My fear is that even after the divorce I will still be in this pain; nothing will have changed except that my life will be even more dismantled. That divorce will not be the empowering or cathartic experience I hope for.

you will still in pain, and naturally so. You'll still grieve for the relationship and company you lost.

But, and it's a massive but, you will heal. It will all be in one direction. It will get better and better. It will get easier and easier. You will become more and more pain free. Life will become more and more stable for you and the kids as routines fall into place. That's really the difference. the divorce doesn't mean instant relief. It's a fixed point in time beyond which you heal. At the moment, all your doing is delaying the start of the process. So you are not healing and the health of you and your children is spiralling downhill as you are saying. Whilst I've hated seeing you go through this agony, I do admire your fortitude. However, it has to end at some point and I think you are so nearly there now I have hope for your future and that of your children.

best wishes

LH

[This message edited by LonelyHusband at 7:22 AM, May 28th (Tuesday)]

Dad, it will get worse before it gets better. Trust me on that. But just like when you first start an exercise routine, and all your muscles are killing you, you just push through it knowing that in time you will be better off. The pain will eventually transform into greater strength.

I think I was one year out from the divorce when I finally knew that there is no way no matter what my ex did that would inspire me to take him back. It was at that point that life divorced from him was better than any life married to him had ever been. And that is because I had finally realized that even though I initially thought the beginning of our relationship was so good, and I longed for that back, I realized it had been a mask.

Like others have said, I began to pursue some of my own personal interests. Things I'd given up years before, and things I thought I might like to do. I started doing some volunteer work in my time without my children. I volunteered at the local animal shelters and with rescue transport. I began to write, and draw again and take up some photography. So what I can say is you'll somewhat have to fake it until you make it. Eventually you will have a vision of yourself whole and complete without her. You will be able to believe that moment in time will come because you will feel the improvement. If you're like me, you'll wish that your marriage could have been different, but will accept that it wasn't, and you'll be okay in spite of it. That old adage about time. It just takes time. How much time will depend on your commitment to your healing. If you get stuck in self-pity or the past it will take much longer. And occasionally, there are people who never seem to get over it but I think those people have serious issues that needed addressing but never were. You're doing the right things by being in IC and working to make things better.

Steel your self for this ride ahead. As I said, look for it to get harder before it gets better. Keep your eye on the prize which will be a good financial settlement and the best position you can secure for yourself and your children.

My fear is that even after the divorce I will still be in this pain; nothing will have changed except that my life will be even more dismantled. That divorce will not be the empowering or cathartic experience I hope for.

Ninebark and LH covered what I would have said. I actually think ninebark might possible be my SI twin since I could have typed her first 2 paragraphs word for word and they would have applied to me. I initially had 2 takes on D. Divorce by itself isn't cathartic or empowering. My 1st take was D is the legal destruction of a bond that two people once took very seriously and in many cases made before GOD. The 2nd which I got to a little later was it's nothing more than a legal formality saying we are done and WW is no longer entitled to half my shit.

Getting to that second definition in my head involved the carthartic and empowering stuff. This is where it all is up to YOU. Yes you will mourn the M as all of us did but this is the part about it not defining you. This is the heal yourself part. The more focus you put on you, digging into your issues, and figuring out what you want out of life for you and your children helps big time. Make a genuine effort every single day to get up and say I am going to do something fun/exciting/positive today and the negative thoughts and fear fade away. The more you work at it the easier it gets because the vision of things we have in our heads are often much worse then reality. Fear turns into possibilities, hope, and freedom. Yes you will still have bad days. I still on occasion get in a funk but I can get out of it pretty quickly. On those bad days you will remember the string of good days you put together and realize you are actually okay after all.

Here comes the broken record part. Get that list of stuff out man and start living your life again. It's scary at first but that's the cathartic and empowering part no matter what stage of S or D you are in. You don't have to wait for an official D to start changing and living your life again. My official S doesn't start for another month and I have 1 year after that before the D can be final but I started working on me before I even found the courage to file. It really does help. You are doing great, keep posting and keep working on you.

So many people here seem so strong. Did divorce help with this? Were you weaker and in more pain prior to the divorce? What did the divorce do for you in terms of healing?

You know that song with the words "When you're going through hell keep on going, don't look back?"

That applies here!

I was curled up on my bed in a fetal position for months. I cried/sobbed every day for a year. I was terrified, and needed help from AD, therapist, Alanon.

That was 6 years ago. I barely think about that time now. And when I do I give thanks for the lessons learned.

Is it what I wanted to happen? No, but it is what happened. My first job in healing was accepting that my life had taken a turn I did not want.

Good morning! Just my thoughts on your latest post, if I may..

She wanted to talk to me so we did, briefly, about what to do about our son.

The biggest issue I have with this is that it was a phone call. NO MORE PHONE CALLS OR FACE-TO-FACE CONTACT!! EMAIL OR TEXT ONLY!! She could very easily start her son on medication or her own counselor or anything else she wants to and state that she had your verbal permission to do this. YOU NEED A PAPER TRAIL of these discussions!!

Very disconcerting to have no control over one's emotions.

You DO have control over your emotions. Believe me, I know it's very, very difficult, but you must take your power back. She DOES NOT have control over your emotions anymore. She never did really. Just as you don't have control over her emotions. You are stronger and smarter than you think!!

My fear is that even after the divorce I will still be in this pain; nothing will have changed except that my life will be even more dismantled. That divorce will not be the empowering or cathartic experience I hope for.

This are tons people with this fear. I thinks LOTS of us feel it. But really, you will start acting on emotions when you realize leaving that situation will be more empowering and cathartic for you than staying in the one you are in right now..

"OK then, just stay separated."

Just even seeing this quote makes me think a small part of you still holds on that she will pull her head out of her ass, and I truly believe that as soon as you fully pull your head out of your ass and give her the full effects of this separation and eventual divorce will be the time she either pulls her head out of her ass or leaves you for good (though she will continue her attempts at manipulating you). You keep leaving those few strings around that allow her to keep messing with your head. She is grasping at any string she can find and you need to TAKE THEM ALL AWAY!! STOP giving her those strings to pull at you. Or at the very least, STOP showing her that there are still strings she could pull. She needs to hit rock bottom here with this.

(Though I doubt it), once you pull ALL those strings away, this MAY (a big MAYBE) could lead to her finally waking up and truly begging for this relationship back as she realizes the horror of her choices, and she might actually make some genuine changes. Believe me, if you told us things she was saying and doing that sounded like real remorse, like "I'm so sorry, I can't believe what I've done to my family, I can't believe what I've put you through, this is all my fault," and you really thought she meant these things and backed them up with actions, this might so show good progress (notice all those statements have everything to do with what she did and NOTHING to do with what you did). But so far I've only heard anger and pity from her and her constantly telling you what you've done wrong and blameshifting and gaslighting. She STILL isn't taking any responsibility for what she has done and is blaming everything on you. We have only heard her blameshiting and gaslighting and using you and doing every trick in the back to manipulate you into this toxic relationship..

And even if she did sound sincere, you are a long way off from a healthy relationship with her. That kind of stuff would have to be more than words, it would have to be actions, and from what you've posted so far, this woman only has words to manipulate you with no real actions to back up her wishes for a true reconciliation.. I would really try to squash any more hopes of this happening. When you do that, you will either have a woman who is worth taking a few an extra look at, completely ignoring her words and only looking at her actions, but my guess is that the more you detach and ignore her, the more you will really start to get away from this woman and really start to heal. DETACH!

You really need to start to heal from this no matter what she does. Please just forget about trying to figure her out right now and FOCUS on you!! This will help you be strong enough to stand up for yourself no matter what she does..

Did divorce help with this? Were you weaker and in more pain prior to the divorce? What did the divorce do for you in terms of healing?

YES. The divorce definitely helped with this. I was definitely more weak and in more pain prior to the divorce. Once I filed, a feeling of calm set over me as he was not able to hurt me financially anymore, and there were rules to our relationship outside of the ones we so stupidly tried to create for ourselves. It gave a third party with a lot more power control over the situation as I needed help. An attorney absolutely has more experience in this type of stuff and does not have all the emotions to go along with it, so he will be your best ally in this and will be completely focused on you and protecting you and your assets.. I felt A LOT better after retaining my attorney. It takes tons of the burden off and did not require my ex and I to come to decisions together. It gave me what I consider an MMA fighter in my corner..

It's so very hard to do this on your own. Pick the best attorney you can find and let them deal with her. You can not fix this toxic relationship with her on your own, as much as you want to, so get yourself some back-up.

Big hugs to you!!

I saw you comment on another thread this morning, Dad and I felt compelled to give you some feedback. You bemoaned the fact that your wife went to the OM for help with her car when you were "unable to" and you called her out in that thread for saying that you "refused" to help.

That was quite the spin on the situation. You DID refuse to -- as you should have. That stuff is not your job anymore -- as has been pointed out over and over again in these threads!!!

I am not calling you out on the way you spin things just to beat you up. But the seeming repeating thread here is that you are holding on, holding on, holding on and seeing yourself as nothing but a victim. The victim role, the pity party in your head, needs to stop in order for you to start moving forward. Yes you are taking baby steps and perhaps that is the best you can do for now. But your attitudes must change before you can achieve any type of longterm behavioral change. You have to tell your self over and over and over again -- put post-its on your mirror "She is no longer my responsibility." When you internalize the new attitude/belief, it will be a hell of a lot easier to enact the 180 behavior you want to.

I am not an expert at surviving infidelity, which is why I read often here but post little. But what I've said here, I believe to be true and have experienced in my own recovery and as I've faced other problems in my life.

Quit thinking of yourself as the victim. Yes, her actions toward you were wrong and undeserved. But as long as YOU leave yourself, emotionally, in a shirt with the word VICTIM across the front, you will be treated as one and you will live like one. Start taking your power back.