SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

And talking, talking, talking about how awesome she is.

Have I? I really don't think I have been. I've heard other people say this and have been confused by this.

Beachbunny, could you cite examples where I have done this? I don't mean to be facetious, I just want to know if I'm doing this and not realizing it.

I honestly thought I talked about how wonderful my BW is here, but not really my OW.

I do truly want to understand myself. Or at least I tell myself I do. It's hard for me to know the difference and I don't trust myself much anymore.

No, I don't think you're being facetious, that's why I speculated that you are probably unaware that you're even doing it.

When we are enamored with someone, we don't think they do a whole lot wrong-even when they are, we give them a pass.

I believe you are in that state & not seeing who this person really is.

Since you wanted examples, here they are:

Then OW explained it perfectly.

OW understood.

She's an outgoing and friendly person who does things for others.

OW did comment a fair bit on my writing, which was nice,

But OW was also the person most interested in my writing other than her.

I only went back 2-3 pages, I'm sure I would find more.

lostone, I can't believe you asked beachbunny to provide examples.. This thread is now 10 pages long with over 180 comments. I think this thread could be added to your BW/OW book. I picked a random page and found this:

I don't think I could do that. I'd be getting rid of too much of myself. I'm a very sentimental person. Plus, a lot of my writing involved OW. No way I could get rid of that writing.

Also, what about things that remind me of her that I run into otherwise? Like, for example, I'm watching a new movie with BW and the characters in the movie visit a place that OW used to make youtube videos at and this reminds me of my OW's love of X . Or how in another movie the characters are sitting in a certain place and talking in a certain way that was just like OW and I used to. It seems impossible to get away from this.

But getting rid of art OW did for me and deleting photos of our trips and chat logs and all the stuff I wrote? No way could I do that.

Even if you're not saying in words "OW is awesome". Relating her to characters in movies, keeping photos, chat logs and relating her to even youtube videos is 100% fantasy land and proof that you have her high on a pedestal.

And I note that you didn't want to answer my question about social media. Either you didn't read it or conveniently hoped that no one would notice?

EDIT - deleted my comments about social media - no FB use, stopped following on Twitter..

[This message edited by messedupchick at 6:09 PM, August 4th (Saturday)]

I do not use Facebook.

On the art and social media sites that I had previously friended or followed her on, I unwatched and unfriended her in Match and have not rewatched since.

I did read her pages though before I contacted her again. And yes, it's been 13 days since I last talked to her. And I have looked at her page once or twice since then, but I haven't done so too often or dwelled on it. At first, I just wanted to make sure she hadn't mentioned me. Least that's a nice excuse.

She did comment on a post of mine, possibly because I wasn't clear enough when we talked last. I didn't respond to her, though. And yes, she has been watching/friending me the whole time, even after I defriended her.

And yes, I didn't want her to see me defriending her in March. I did it only because my wife said she'd leave otherwise.

Of course, looking at other people's pages on these sites, I occasionally see her artwork because they've liked it. It's a somewhat close-knit community we're both in.

ETA: I can't respond to everyone's posts individually. There are just so many of them. I appreciate all the help and I do read and think about them all, even those I don't reply to. I try to answer most of the questions, though I'm sure I miss some. I especially try to answer the questions that make me uncomfortable because I figure there's more likely to be value there.

[This message edited by lostone209 at 6:05 PM, August 4th (Saturday)]

All right lostone that's good - I edited my comments about social media.

But that's not a good sign that you've been checking up on her on other sites in the past 2 weeks. I guess you'll decide one day when to go NC for real. I'll just wait for this thread to die now so that will help you on the road for NC.

Good luck buddy, I hope you make the right decisions for you and BW.

I feel after reading all ten pages of this thread the main thing that sticks out to me especially from your posted "summary" is that you have NEVER been NC. Ever. And I think that is the key to everything. Until you can have true NC and get rid of all reminders then I don't think that you can reconcile with your wife. Mainly because all your behavior so far is demonstrating that you don't want to. You seem to place an unhealthy emphasis on what other people think of you. The only person's regard you should care about is your BW. However, because you have failed her and she isn't reflecting a positive image anymore, you are idealizing your affair and "THE" OW. This is another glaring red flag to me reading your posts, you keep saying "MY" OW. Once again that is giving her a positive association it seems. Until you can realize that she could have been anyone and the problems are yours to own and solve then I don't believe you can get anywhere. I also 100% agree with other posters who have said that you are seeming to use this thread to wax on about how great OW is. What you must realize is that she is not and never has been a friend to either you or your marriage. I wish you luck and I really hope that someday you will be able to recognize the OW for the enemy that she truly is. Especially if you truly want to reconcile with your wife. Just to add something that I also notice is that you cannot write one single positive thing about your BW without somehow turning it into some other association or reason why OW is so great. I recommend the other posters suggestion of the stop sign or if it is easier since you are a writer, think of it in terms of punctuation. Say/think the positive thought about your wife and then end the sentence. Period full stop. There should never be a "but" or an "and" that continues the sentence into something that includes OW. Your sole focus should be YOUR BW that is where your possessive should be. "THE" OW needs to be removed. Until then I don't believe that you are truly feeling empathy. I think you are in reality sad that you have lost your BW's regard and she is no longer a mirror that is reflecting a pretty image back to you. I really hope that you can get there. Please keep reading and continue (or start I can't remember) IC.

*edited for typos

[This message edited by childofcheater at 7:08 PM, August 4th (Saturday)]

BS here who has been following and can't keep her .02 out of it, but I will weigh in with something in general.

Lots of us here - on all sides of all kinds of fences - have received the gift of a lifeline from someone else in our lives at one time or another. We screwed something up (and yes, sometimes that something is just ourselves), took a look inside and didn't like what we saw, sat with it (and felt THAT pain), identified it, and asked for help (or someone offered it to us without us even asking), and we had the courage to try (actually really try) a different way of doing things - because what we had done thus far sure wasn't working. Getting "unstuck" from a place that was possibly developed at a young age and even worked for a while is very very hard. None of us wanted to look in the mirror and say, "Well, I am fucked up."

No one here is saying there is only one specific way lostone has to be from this exact moment forever and ever. In fact, I think the overwhelming majority is simply encouraging you to be a healthy version of yourself. Trying out a new pathway in our journey and seeing what it might offer instead is worth the exploration in my book. And then once you have truly given it the old college try, you can say, "you know, that really isn't for me." But you won't know that until you actually do it - for real - with all you've got.

I have been drawn to reading this thread for the amazing advice you asked for and received from so many people on all sides of those fences. (Although I'm still not sure what piece you want advice on in particular). You've been thrown so many lifelines and I suspect your BW might still be handing you one, but it's starting to get pretty short and frayed.

BS, WS, Mad Hatters - all of us have been stuck in someplace unhealthy at some point in this journey. I think it's painful for most of us to watch because we know how dangerous that spot can be to us and others in our lives. In one way or another, we all just want to yank you out of that mud.

Thanks, Chili.

childofcheater wrote:

I feel after reading all ten pages of this thread the main thing that sticks out to me especially from your posted "summary" is that you have NEVER been NC. Ever.

For 3+ months I did not contact OW nor follow her on art sites or social media. I sent her no messages and she sent none to me. Does this not count as NC because I occasionally (but not often) looked at a photo or other momento?

(edited to clarify who i was quoting)

[This message edited by lostone209 at 10:08 PM, August 4th (Saturday)]

For 3+ months I did not contact OW nor follow her on art sites or social media. I sent her no messages and she sent none to me. Does this not count as NC because I occasionally (but not often) looked at a photo or other momento?

Not Chili, but IMO, no, this doesn't count as NC. See, the operative word in No Contact is NO. No contact means no contact. And looking and photos or mementos--hell, even thinking of your OW in terms of mementos--is NOT no contact. You are mentally keeping the A alive, no matter how much you say you are not.

The day after I discovered that JM had broken NC multiple times, I heard something on the radio that was so simple, but so profound. There was a guy talking about A's (specifically EAs) and he was talking about the "chemistry" between APs. And he said that the only way to stop a chemical reaction is to remove one of the ingredients.

The only way to get past the chemical reaction, the feelings for OW is to COMPLETELY remove her from your life. And if you are unwilling to dispose of the artifacts of your A, then I believe you need to really examine yourself and decide if you truly want R.

Because you are most likely not going to be able to have your wife and your fond memories of OW. Hang onto those memories and they may be all you have left.

And that would be really sad.

Does this not count as NC because I occasionally (but not often) looked at a photo or other momento?

you have to look at the intent of NC. The intent is to remove the OP from your heart, your thoughts and your life.

Does occassionally looking at a photo or momento fit the criteria?

tts

lostone.

I have been reading your post like so many others here, and thank you for being open to all of this. Your post have triggered me and my BW because our stories are so much alike. I read your words, and just feel so sad, because I know that this is what I did to my BW, and it really, really sucks. I see you making the same mistakes I made. Please learn from everyone here, I hope you see what everyone is trying to help.

1st; please go NC for real. Get rid of all of the stuff, that is if you really want to save your M. IF you don't want to save it, continue doing what you are doing, because that IS what is going to happen.

2nd; here is my advice. You have to look at OW for what she really is. She is not your friend. A real friend would not have an A with you and destroy your M ad your BW. A healthy friend would not do any of the things you said happened between you and OW. A healthy friend has good boundaries, and would not have put up with anything that went on between the two of you. I thought that my OW was a friend, and when she showed up years later after my A, and asked if we could be friends, I said yes, and wound up starting an EA with her. Please don't do this. If your BW gives you the gift of R, please do the work that is needed, please do what the other posters have told you, and start it tonight. See OW for who and what she is. She was using you to feel better about something fucked up in her life, just like it seems you are using her to feel better about something that is fucked up in yours. It may seem like it wasn't that, but it was a really unhealthy friendship. Call it what it was/is. Look at what was f'd up in your life, and forget about OW. I wish I had done it 14 years ago.

Either take their advice or let your wife go, because I am afraid that if you continue down the road you are on, you will have a signature panel that looks just like mine.

I know it seems like everyone is projecting their stories onto your, but the truth is, we are not individual snowflakes. Us WS seem to have some patterns that can be spotted, if we are willing to look at them honestly.

good luck. I hope you get healthy, and help your BW heal. It's time to think about her, and not OW. This is your chance to get healthy, and have a life that you can be proud of.

lostone, I've stayed out of this thread but have been reading...

I worry for you and your BW. This is so unhealthy. Life is too short to live like this.

You've gotten much advice about you and your M, so I'm going to bring up something else...

It seems that you take some joy in your writing and art, and the art from OW... etc etc. Do you feel that you have an artist's soul? Do you feel like all this is helpful to your creative essence?

Because honestly, I find it stifling to mine. Worrying and fretting about bad choices and the negative consequences for me and my loved one... squelched my talents. I haven't written since well before D-Day and my ONS, and forget painting and drawing. I pray that someday those will come back to me. But if they don't, then that's a consequence of my stupid choices. I think if they ever come back, then that's a sign that I'm on my way to healing properly. I hope that I can be as good or better than I was before.

I think when you really... no really think about it, you're poisoning your artistic gifts. If you think it hasn't affected your creative expression, then maybe it hasn't arrived yet. But I think eventually it will. Having both BW and OW as muses is not healthy or fair if you want to be true to your craft at the deepest level.

[This message edited by NothngElseMattrs at 10:52 PM, August 4th (Saturday)]

I write. My BW and OW are both visual artists.

My BW and OW are much more experienced and practiced and such at art than I am at writing, though. They both have sold artwork, for example, while I just write to share. They have far more fans than I do.

--

My BW has lost her muse since D-Day (which really was my discovery day - my BW had realized what was going on for months though I hadn't).

But me? No. Well, for months after D-DAy I couldnt write. I tried to process my feelings through writing and it didn't come out well. Over the last month or two (even before I contacted OW again), I was writing a little again, including a writing portrait of my wife I had wanted to do. It actually came out really well.

For years I hadn't written anything, or just a tiny bit. But shorly after I met OW but before the affair, I started writing again. BW was a big inspirtion in encouraging me to write again. One day it just came to me and I tried to turn off the critic in my head enough to write. But I kept writing through the affair and I don't think my writing suffered. But as I've said, I wrote about things other than my experiences with BW and OW, though I did write about those too.

I've love to share to show a bit of what I was thinking, but I can't really for the sake of OW and BW's privacy.

My writing wasn't very important from an objective perspective. I don't pretend to be a "real" writer. I just was trying to get past the "a writer is someone who writes". Actually do it for a change instead of just thinking about it. It was important to me.

I was trying to get healthier in my life by doing something I was proud of or pursuing something that I wanted to do and thought was important instead of just complaining about my job. And I did have an idea for a book - I didn't have any grand ideas that I could sell it or anything, but I wanted to make the best book I could for me.

--

And yes, it absolutely kills me that my BW has stopped painting. She's amazingly gifted. She had her most successful artshow recently too. I wish so much that she'd paint again. It's far better than I've ever done for the world.

[This message edited by lostone209 at 11:33 PM, August 4th (Saturday)]

a bit of a 2x4...

My BW has lost her muse since D-Day

And yes, it absolutely kills me that my BW has stopped painting. She's amazingly gifted. She had her most successful artshow recently too. I wish so much that she'd paint again.

gently... you're taking away this from her as well by continuing to feel fondly about OW... If for nothing else then wanting your BW to get back to herself enough to the point where she can paint again, I really suggest you work on mentally NCing yourself with OW and stopping all positive feelings.

lostone....

OK, bro....youre a writer. You have nearly 200 responses on 10 pages of replies on an infidelity website.

You have asked for advice...and it has been given.

Could you in ....say...100 words or less, give me the general concept of what others have told you? Please?

I get it that you have a wife....and feelings for your GF.....but...what has the collective membership of this forum advised you to do?

Are you looking for acceptance for your situation, are you wanting to debate the state of mind that a wayward is in during the affair??

I am confused.....

thanks,

Bufffalo

lostone209,

On the evening of Monday, July 30th, you made your first post on SI. You now have 47 posts of your own on this thread which has grown to 10 pages. That means you have written and created almost 25% of this thread. It makes sense that you are a writer. You like telling us what is going on inside your head. You apparently aren't a listener though.

It is coming up on a week later, and you have been in conversation with a total of 69 different people on this thread. Yes, 69 people have taken the time to respond to what you have written. 69 people have given you their advice and their opinions about your situation and what you should do, and still you feel that you cannot do it. You don't want to hurt the AP (yes, I will start calling her the affair partner, not the other woman). You have not gotten the concept of going NC (mentally) with the AP. 13 days since you last contacted the AP. Every time you do that, it sets the clock back and you will find yourself in the mud pit you've chosen to stay stuck in for so long.

Imagine that 69 people got together and decided to help someone who was having trouble, be it drugs, alcohol, financial, spiritual, whatever. Heck, imagine 69 people got together for a barn-raising. Now imagine the one person they are trying to help spends the whole time trying to convince the 69 helpers that they have done everything to try to help themselves and it hasn't made a difference. This one person is you.

And finally, on page 10, you might be starting to see that you haven't been NC after all. This was mentioned by Bigger in the very first response to your OP.

Look, I know everyone moves at their own pace. But when you have so many people in one weeks time telling you the same thing, or very similar things, from so many different perspectives and nothing sticks...well, what is it about you that makes you resistant to hearing what is being said? Have you ever learned to really listen?

In no way do I think you are unintelligent, but you are not very good with regards to introspection. Writing is often about getting something out, isn't it? What about getting the truth out? Your truth. Not the truth you want to see, or that you want those around you to see, but the truth about what you have done to yourself and your BW. None of us gives a damn about what you might have done to the AP. She does not matter.

I think everyone here deserves a round of applause for sticking through this thread -

Bigger, BaxtersBFF, aesir, used2bestrong, DixieDevastated, momxgbg, DeadMumWalking, twitchy, DeeplyScared - moderating post, Crushed38, SisterMilkshake, ladies_first, hopingforhappy, MFC2011, sudra, Threnody, thegooddokta, TheClimb, Lyonesse, beachbunny, rsm46, heartbroken0903, mindbody, Jewel925, millienotboo, osca, gonnabe2016, Bobbie_sue, Fighting2Survive, HOLDINGONTOHOPE, confused615, cognitivediss, hopingforhappy, DWBH, darkbeast, hallelujah, karmahappens, Catwoman, Jrazz, UnexpectedSong, Heavy Sigh, Clearview, lieshurt, Lucky2HaveMe, whensitover, whatjusthappened, worst-year-ever, Aubrie84, silverhopes, notinsane, remorsecode, metamorphisis - moderating post, realitybites, jewel123, grace68, WarpSpeed, shattered123, Francheska, solus sto, trying to smile, ladyvorkosigan, lightmylight55, messedupchick, buffalo, childofcheater, Chili, HFSSC, badchoice, NothngElseMattrs

Yes, 69 people, and you sound like you are still trying to convince us of something, when you aren't even sure about it yourself.

So, as others have asked, maybe not is so many words, what are you doing here?

I think still the most important thing that you are ignoring is that you need to get rid of all reminders of OW and recognize that she was never your friend. That is the key to everything including healing your relationship with your wife. If you have a true friendship with someone then I personally feel that should mean that they help you stay true to yourself and you can be your best self when around them. Under that definition, your best self when with OW is a liar and a cheater. If that is really your best self then go ahead and continue to idolize and cherish this "friend" and let your wife go. I hope that doesn't sound too harsh. You have had ten pages of people telling you all the same thing and I just feel like you are skimming over the helpful tips to help you get over the hump and get to true NC.

Once again I suggest the use of some technique, stop sign whatever works, to help you stop associating every thought with this OW. I think this is most damaging to your BW because you can't seem to stop linking this person to your every thought. And that is why you have never been truly NC. Please reread your summary. It is clear to all here after reading that that NC was never truly established. You bed to send a definitive NC letter to OW and block all forms of possible contact. You seem to want to hedge your bets and leave the door open. This is not fair to your BW. She needs you to be "all in". You can't expect her to do the heavy lifting to deal from your betrayal. She can't see past her pain right now I'm sure and all of your mementos and trips down memory lane just twist the knife you and OW stabbed in her back.

Eta: I know it can be frustrating but I just wanted to say that really even if it doesn't seem like it people here at SI really are pulling for you to succeed. Everyone here is in the trenches with you even though some are BS's and some are WS's like yourself.

[This message edited by childofcheater at 8:06 AM, August 5th (Sunday)]

My FWH sent a NC email to OW2 on October 17, 2010. She did not read the email until October 18th. She was furious with FWH because the evening of October 16th, while I was out of town they had one last date together in our home. FWH didn't really care about her, he was growing tired of his double life and scared he was about to lose his family. He still loved the high of seeing her or talking to her.

She was furious and changed her cell phone number, changed her home phone number and shut down her FB page. NC last 3 days until FWH emailed her. She responded with a very short email reminding him of what he had said and told him that she was moving on. FWH pined for her for about 6 to 8 weeks, kept searching for her online, trying to email her, looking on her BH FB page, looking on her friends FB page, sending emails to her. He was met with crickets each and every time.

I didn't know all of this was happening because I was not checking every bit of his social media. I checked our computer history and his phone records and saw nothing other than he had checked out her BH FB page. I wasn't very vigilant because he was either going to be NC or he wasn't. I continued my 180 as my 6 month internal deadline approached to see if he was capable of feeling any kind of remorse. I knew he still was pining for her. I saw it. I knew it would take several months before he would be able to see the OW for who she was.

During this time, he was drinking very heavily and one night when he was drunk he told me that he was miserable without her. I didn't say anything that night. the next morning when he asked me what was wrong, I told him what he said and went to work. About 3 weeks after that he told me (after drinking) that he was starting to think that the OW2 never really loved him or else she would have tried to contact him over the past 8 weeks.

On Christmas eve, FWH bottomed out and I told him he could do whatever he wanted to his life, but I wasn't going to hang around to watch him self destruct or play second fiddle in his life. the choice was up to him.

He chose our M and has been actively working to fix it ever since. He has gotten rid of every single reminder (including a toothbrush he found in a bag about 6 months ago). He has no fond memories of her or their time together.

Its a process. The chemical reaction or feelings you have will not go away over night. Ultimately FWH realized he had the power to choose what he wanted in his life and not let his feelings run his life.

If having your AP in your life is more important to you than your BW, then let your BW go. Your BW has laid out her boundary and told you what she is willing to live with and what she is not willing to live with. You have been offered a lot of good advice. What do you want?

Do or Do Not. there is no try.

[This message edited by isadora at 8:56 AM, August 5th (Sunday)]

read BaxterBFF post,

read it again.

read it again and let it set in.

So, as others have asked, maybe not is so many words, what are you doing here?

Are you here to SURVIVE infidelity or are you here because you think you can prove you are a special case that things are different for? If it's the first, reread BaxterBFF post.

If it's the last... you are in the wrong place to be.

Could you in ....say...100 words or less, give me the general concept of what others have told you? Please?

You have not been in NC. Real NC is absolute and requires getting rid of all mementos, not following on social sites, and not thinking of her. Continuing fondness for AP is not ok.

You seem to be self-centered and lacking empathy. You are obsessing over AP when you should be focusing on BW. Through her actions, AP demonstrated that she is not your friend.

BW deserves better. You must either work hard with no excuses or let her go. Immediately go full NC, focus on BW, and get a good IC to fix the issues that caused the A.