SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Don't send it... go visit your friends, come back refreshed and refocused on yourself and the kids.

Be strong

(((MO3gbb)))

stop.

he knows this...doesn't need to be told...

GENTLY,

stop.

LOVE YOURSELF MORE!

Doing what we all have been saying to you will have more affect than this email ever will. Anything you say will fall on deaf ears.

stop.

Big hugs! I know it hurts and I know it is hard.

No. He cannot hear anything you have to say right now. At least not in the way you are wanting him to hear it.

You asked for the 2x4, so here it is

That letter screams,

"Love me, love me, love ME! I do for you, you, you, and not for me. I don't love me enough to take care of myself, so I need you to love me. I'm in a desert without you."

The 180 sends a TOTALLY different message. It says, "I don't care if you love me. You're not responsible to meet my needs anymore. I'm meeting them on my own. I'm strong, I'm worthy. I don't care about your opinion of those facts. They are FACTS, and you can't change it. I know my worth, and I'm making me happy today. Do whatever you want, it doesn't matter to me. I'm too busy being happy enjoying my healthy life to even notice you."

Don't send him anything. Sending him anything is saying "I notice you, I miss you. I need you. I'm not well."

T/J,

WnW I am so happy to see you do so well with your own 180 and helping others with it. I know it has been hard for you. You are sounding very strong, keep it up. You are so worth it.

Love me, love me, love ME! I do for you, you, you, and not for me. I don't love me enough to take care of myself, so I need you to love me. I'm in a desert without you."

Sigh. You are correct.

What Windows said..10 fold!

Thanks, TG.

mom, I know it's hard. It's fricking excruciating. You'll question yourself LOTS. Just keep posting. Kalliopeia, Suscpicious247, and I were all feeling just like you a couple months ago. Each of us are stronger now, took a little different directions on our each of our paths, but the one thing that was consistent with all of us is we learned to stop caring about the choices our WS's were making. We realized they weren't any of our business. Our only matter of business was taking care of ourselves now. We're all healthier, stronger women for that.

So, keep posting. We'll help walk you through it. It isn't easy. It's much easier to keep living in the comfort of chaos. If you want pure joy, though, you'll need to take a chance at change.

To save you the wasted energy of trying to get through to him, I can show you a letter I, myself, sent to MrWNW when I believed talking to him would help him get it and prevent him from making a choice "based on a misunderstanding of my state of mind"

When I say, I will not have sex unless I feel safe.... it does not say, I will not have sex with you until you do something for me. It isn't withholding, it isn't manipulative. It is a decision that is made totally in regards to taking care of myself, for no other reason. It is a poor self-care choice to continue to ignore my own needs. I understand you aren't well. I don't know a definitive pinpointed reason why, and I just don't have the room with all the issues of my own I'm dealing with to figure it out. All I know is you're not in a position to meet my basic needs, and I have to accept that. Accepting that led me to realize the ONLY person responsible for meeting my basic needs was myself. I needed to start caring for myself better.

So, I've let go of your choices. You can choose to seek validation form other women, choose to use porn, masturbate, choose to be single, choose to push me away.....these are all choices that I can't control. You can choose to be open, consider the love and concern I have for you, accept my supportive love, and work on healing yourself too to become a safe partner for me so we can build a beautiful life. If I had any control, of course I'd make the latter occur. I can't. The only thing I have control over is myself, my choices. I have to choose to respect myself, to take care of myself. I have to realize if that is a dealbreaker for the man I love most in this world, then it is the most loving thing I can do for myself to let him go. If he loved me, he'd support my healing myself, he'd be happy the burden of fixing me has been lifted off his shoulders, he'd be happy to see I'm finally taking accountability for myself.

I can tell you nothing I said or did ever made a difference. If anything, he'd hold onto one or two phrases of anything I said and tell me how my words were so awful, my words were the reasons he did the things he did. Talking to him gave him the opportunity to completely shift my reality and believe he was the victim, and I just was the "selfish, manipulative bitch" that didn't give a shit about his needs and it was all "me, me, me" in my mind. This may sound crazy to you that he'd react that way now seeing the words I once wrote, but it is just as crazy to the rest of us that you are hoping a 180 will bring a conflict avoidant man to his knees in gratitude of you. Accept that he may not ever heal himself. That is his choice. You don't have to stay stuck in broken with him. That is your choice.

I want to ask him how he would feel if Dd was married to a man like him! I'm leaving work early before my IC appt and hitting TJ MAxx.. There's no jimmy choo there but a little something might make me feel good for a minute

I want to ask him how he would feel if Dd was married to a man like him! I'm leaving work early before my IC appt and hitting TJ MAxx.. There's no jimmy choo there but a little something might make me feel good for a minute

Don't bother. I asked a similar question. In the fog, the compartmentalization is too strong to be able to associate you with his DD or sister or mother or anyone else. You're the enemy right now. He's had to make you that to justify betraying you in the way he has. It's coping for him, and it's comfortable, and nothing you say is gonna snap him out of that.

TJ Maxx sounds like a great idea! Hope you find a great deal. There you go!

Windows,

So 180 is what finally worked for you? He finally got it?

I'm still in 180. It has worked for me. Yes. I'm healthier, stronger, and happier than I have been in a very long time. He is still broken. No, he hasn't gotten it. I accept he may never. While that makes me sad (I cried just yesterday over that), his choice to stay broken has nothing to do with me. That much I realize. He was broken before me, broken during me, and unless HE chooses ON HIS OWN to seek help, he'll be broken after me.

I am not exiting yet. I committed to not committing to any major decisions until I have the emotional wisdom necessary to do so. My emotions are still all over the place at times, although much steadier than ever before. I'm in IC, and I'm working on me. If he leaves before I'm ready to make a decision, that is something the amazing support system I've built will help me through. I won't crawl back. I'll keep building and working on me.

The 180 isn't about him. It's about me, so yes, it's working! :)

Edit: Remember I said I decided to limit my choices. I'm not worried right now if he stays or goes. Not worried right now if he's sexting some other woman or if he's crying and ready to come back. Can't say what he's feeling because I'm too busy having a life. I don't know how he's feeling. I got the dog's stuff together, life jackets, and me, DS5, and the two neighbor kids are headed to the park. That's the only thing on my mind right now.....and theirs! :) No "Why is mommy so sad today?" Just "We're going to the park!!!"

[This message edited by windowsnotwalls at 11:00 AM, May 21st (Tuesday)]

mom, You're getting great advice that I can't add to, but I want to address an issue that hasn't yet been addressed - time.

Time pressure hurts, and since you mention it, I guess it's hurting you. (It's something that's always on my mind, BTW.)

Note how long it's taken you the get to this place. It's taken years to get here, so figure it'll take more than a couple of weeks to change your life. Note how many things you have to do every day for your kids and your customers - you don't have a lot of time for you, so the 180 can't be as fast as if you could focus all your attention on you.

Finding your strengths - which is the goal of the 180, after all - will take longer than you'd like. Let it take the time it needs.

Take comfort in the truth that every time you avoid engaging your H, no matter how much you want to, you're getting more and more in touch with your core strengths.

How long it takes matters much less than keeping on the 180 path.

[This message edited by sisoon at 11:03 AM, May 21st (Tuesday)]

And mom,

the more you read here, the more you will see that the 180 is your friend.

So, the 180 is working for windows in the way that it should. But no, her WH hasn't gotten it yet. She's ok. It's working.

There are others doing the 180 and it is working. They are living again. After the 180, their WS's got it and want back in the M. Some may want to try, others not so much.

The point is....whether a WS actually gets it has little if anything to do with the BS. There is nothing you can do or say that will make him GET IT.

In the meantime, you can control how you react to him not getting it.

At first, you will be faking it, but that is ok. You make you and the kids scarce. Head to barnes and noble, the park, target.... Make yourself scarce when at home. Don't make dinner and sit at a table with him quiet. Feed you and the kids before hand and be outside WITH them when he comes home. He's not your concern. Make him be the one in the house sulking, cold, distant. Choose not to participate.

You get your kids ready and to school before he even asks. Complete the tasks without him.

Do you see the difference? It's not easy, but you can do it. Keep posting. Stay strong. Love yourself!!

[This message edited by brokensmile322 at 11:55 AM, May 21st (Tuesday)]

Mom, this has not been mentioned in this thread so much yet, but, are you familiar with the concept of codependentcy? I would discuss it with your IC and perhaps looking to some reading there. You have stuffed your own needs down for so long, it is going to take some time for you to get the hang of valueing yourself, and not being uncomfortable with it. You will need to retrain yourself quite a bit. It can be done! Many of us here are recovered co-dependents!

So, just came back from IC. She said a LOT of what you all said. Actually most of it so thanks for being so smart and willing to share! The two things she said that are not the same are 1. Not to tell the kids. She is in a group that specializes in child development and she consulted with her colleagues who said not to tell. BUT, if my daughter asks, to make H answer.

2. Re 180, she said yes, to take care of myself etc but also to be myself. e.g to make dinner but not go above and beyond by serving it on a plate to him. She said to be a role model for

My kids. That means acting with loving kindness even to people who might be mean but don't need to act lovingly. e.g say hello but don't go up and kiss him.

I am stronger than he is. I can do this

BUT, if my daughter asks, to make H answer.

I would've challenged my IC on that one. Wait, you want me to 180, not worry about his choices, let go of his decisions, accept that nothing I say or do can change him, he's his own person, but if DD asks you want me to MAKE him tell her???? Makes little sense to me. You can't make him do a damn thing, and you can't trust anything that comes out of his mouth anyway. I'd be worried what spinned blameshifted lie he'd be spewing to DD if he did say anything at all.

I think what she meant was answer the q but then throw the ball to him. I don't know about that either. I guess I'll just cross that bridge when I get to it. In the mean time, she also said I should go on the trip this weekend if I want to. That's scary... To just pick up and go!

Mom -

What did she say about NC with OW and not arranging play dates anymore?

Why does she think you shouldn't tell the kids?