SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I don't have advice but I just wanted to say that I think I understand. Your M is whatever you and your spouse agree to and breaking of that agreement is an incredibly painful betrayal. The agreements my H and I made were not the same and his betrayal not the same but it hurts all the same. Through the anger and pain there is also a part of me that is relieved to finally see the improvements (I had tried all I knew to fix our problems, including our sex life and he just wasn't open with what he wanted).

I still hurt a great deal, but over the past week I really believe she is back; and her sincerity in facing her brokenness has helped ease my pain a great deal. I feel like we are a team again...This has also made me face my demons, those that were first attracted to the qualities of her brokenness. Now we are two very broken people that, hopefully, with each other; can grow more whole.

I have been feeling exactly those words. I feel now that if we make it through this we will have a chance at the marriage I want.

[This message edited by lostandconfused4 at 6:34 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)]

I am kinda confused about the whole arrogance thing, I thought the whole opening post was a laser-focus vent of rage humor.

How do I justify keeping WS from having what makes her happy, if I love her..even if that is another person?

Well, you set your boundaries and she decides if she can be happy observing those or not. If not, you part ways to follow those happiness trails or whatever.

How do I deal with the fact that my love and respect for her have kept me from treating her like the slut she sometimes wants to be. How can I change so that my concern for her needs and my love for her doesn't prevent me from being a better lover?

Well, that's not fair for you. It's like a woman who doesn't like anal asking how she can realistically deny the ass to her H. You find a happy medium, and if you can't find a happy medium then it's time to evaluate staying or going.

How do I reconcile the fact that OM was just a better lover and that our sex life can be better by using what he "taught" her?

Well, for me it took five minutes of google to work it out. It's only that monstrous because he did it to your wife. Otherwise these things aren't so much about technique as preference, and you can be the greatest lover in the circus but if she doesn't communicate what she likes, you won't get her off. Even with google.

How do I deal with the feeling that this experience will make me a far better H, yet I don't feel that she should be rewarded for betraying me. Does she deserve a better husband and marriage?

It's not about deserve so much as it's about want.

How do I accept that her A has improved our communication and enabled us to reveal our frailties?

IMO you don't. The A didn't do shit for the positive. Actions following it did. Anything that came out of it for the better could be the same and untainted without the A. You decide if you can accept the positive despite that, or not accept it and move on.

How do I accept the fact that she submitted to OM more emotionally and physically during sex than she ever has with me and the reward was far greater than it has been with me?

I dunno. My wife did the same but I don't want submissive. If that's what she wants, I can't give it to her anymore than I can call her names. These are about my comfort zone, not hers, and if she can't respect that then, I dunno, I'm not about to stick around for surprise buttsex.

How do I accept that our sex life may end up better as a result of the A.

As a result of the A or as a result of better communication? Again, it's not a direct consequence of the A. The A is like alcoholism. People don't go, hooray, I'm an alcoholic, that means I now know just how fucking low I can sink! I'm gonna be an MMA star, glad I put back a bottle of Jack every night for three years! Kinda the same here.

How do I not think of him every time she goes a little deeper than she was previously willing or able; or when we do something that THEY did?

Yeah, that's gonna be rough.

I don't know whether I want to punch OM for taking my WW or thank him for the the great sex tips. That is difficult to bear.

Punch him. He probably got that shit from a google search, too.

Should her APs be outed so their BSs can know the truth? There were possibly two people that could have let me know about the As before final consummation and neither spoke up. I would have wanted to know before severe and irreversible damage was done.

IMO yes, but ultimately that's a personal decision.

Should I hold her sister accountable? I understand her view being tainted by my WW. But, she knew me. I thought she was family and she turned on me without even talking to me.

I would consider it a betrayal and have a more difficult time forgiving her because I'd have no real reason to.

**I don't have advice but I just wanted to say that I think I understand. Your M is whatever you and your spouse agree to and breaking of that agreement is an incredibly painful betrayal. The agreements my H and I made were not the same and his betrayal not the same but it hurts all the same. Through the anger and pain there is also a part of me that is relieved to finally see the improvements (I had tried all I knew to fix our problems, including our sex life and ****

I agree with this poster...Not everybody in the general population of the world is on the same page as to what they prefer in their day to day life, sex life,etc..

If people are intimate as a couple,threesome, or whatever the number of people are in the relationship, it seems to me that it would be painful if the agreement was broken by lies and deception..Betrayal is about breaking the agreement and throwing the person/people that trusted the betrayer under the bus..

Stay strong bro!

AA~

I read this thread and don't see anyone judging you for your lifestyle choices. If they did, I must have missed it. But I understand what some posters wrote because of the assumption of the typical M between H and W.

But now that more details have been given regarding you and your WWs choices, I think we can all say that it is complicated to some degree, but very simple on another.

On one hand, you're not as broken as you think you are. Your feelings of being betrayed are normal. You obviously had rules in the relationship, and she broke them. You apparently did not.

Question: How did you feel when you were with those other women? I ask not to be overly intrusive, but to understand why you felt the need, even though it was ok. If it is too intrusive, then by all means ignore.

On the other hand, being that you and your wife had a semi-open relationship, that does complicate the physical intimacy issues that many of us don't understand, or care to understand. Even though I've been cheated on, in the unlikely event I'd ever consider another relationship with the member of the opposite sex, I'd never consider an open or semi-open or whatever you want to call it kind of relationship.

I'm afraid I have no advice, but it does sound like you guys are working on things, which is good. At least your WW (which is a weak assertion at this point) has at least admitted to it.

Most of the people on here their WSs lie until there is a smoking gun.

StillGoing: Thank you for all your thoughtful answers and advice. I especially liked the following:

As a result of the A or as a result of better communication? Again, it's not a direct consequence of the A. The A is like alcoholism. People don't go, hooray, I'm an alcoholic, that means I now know just how fucking low I can sink! I'm gonna be an MMA star, glad I put back a bottle of Jack every night for three years! Kinda the same here.

Through many of the responses here (thanks everyone) and discussing things with my WS I'm beginning to come to some conclusions and have resolved many of my questions. I'm going to give my best attempt at answering my own questions here. Many of you may see your advice in my answers.

How do I deal with the fact that as one person, I can't be everything to the one I love?

Although one person obviously can't and shouldn't be everything, I (and WS) now are seeing the As as an issue with WS and not something she needed that was lacking in me.

How do I justify keeping WS from having what makes her happy, if I love her..even if that is another person?

It is a form of brokenness that made WS seek out others. She doesn't not need APs to be happy if she is emotionally healthy.

How do I deal with the fact that my love and respect for her have kept me from treating her like the slut she sometimes wants to be. How can I change so that my concern for her needs and my love for her doesn't prevent me from being a better lover?

WS and I have been communicating incredibly well and have worked out many of our sexual issues. I don't believe this will be a problem if we keep communicating.

How do I reconcile the fact that OM was just a better lover and that our sex life can be better by using what he "taught" her?

Both WS and I are coming to the conclussion that this was primarily because she was able to lower her inhibitions with her AP. Both her and I have been trying to do the same with each other and the sex has been out of the world. Because she lowered her inhibitions with AP, she was able to learn things about what she likes. She can't unlearn these things. However, I now believe that AP wasn't really anything special in the sack. He was adequate and that is all he needed to be in her frame of mind.

How do I deal with the feeling that this experience will make me a far better H, yet I don't feel that she should be rewarded for betraying me. Does she deserve a better husband and marriage?

Although she hurt me deeply, she is now having to face her childhood sexual abuse. We will have a better marriage, but she will also pay a great price for it.

How do I accept that her A has improved our communication and enabled us to reveal our frailties?

We both agree that we could have reached this place without the A, had she come to me. I don't owe the A anything.

How do I accept the fact that she submitted to OM more emotionally and physically during sex than she ever has with me and the reward was far greater than it has been with me?

I can only take comfort that this seems to be common in As and also in abuse victims. I think this is one of the hardest things for me to accept and forgive. She broke our bond - our partnership - and formed one with someone else. And the sex was only better because she allowed it to be better. Now that is changing with us.

How do I accept that our sex life may end up better as a result of the A.

Our sex life is better because we are communicating better. It should have happened without the A.

How do I not think of him every time she goes a little deeper than she was previously willing or able; or when we do something that THEY did?

There is no answer for this except time, hopefully.

I don't know whether I want to punch OM for taking my WW or thank him for the the great sex tips. That is difficult to bear.

As many here have stated. He did nothing for me except take advantage of my vulnerable, damaged and willing wife. He is a lowlife scumbag and I owe him nothing except my disdain.

Should her APs be outed so their BSs can know the truth? There were possibly two people that could have let me know about the As before final consummation and neither spoke up. I would have wanted to know before severe and irreversible damage was done.

WS and I have decided that she will probably send her AP's BSs apology emails, which would out at least one of them. The wifes deserve to know what their WHs are doing.

Should I hold her sister accountable? I understand her view being tainted by my WW. But, she knew me. I thought she was family and she turned on me without even talking to me.

I do hold her accountable. I don't know yet if she holds herself accountable at all. I don't know yet how this is going to shake out.

[This message edited by AdamsApple at 6:48 PM, May 30th (Thursday)]