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eta - double post

[This message edited by Kajem at 12:50 PM, May 16th (Thursday)]

However, I dont think BD's use of "the daughter" is meant as a light-hearted term of endearment.

Because you know me so well. Jesus Christ. I think you're making a lot of nothing in this case over the use of the word "the." I call my own daughter "the girl one" and my own son "the boy one" all the time. In fact, my son--who is my hero--I've called the female version of his name his whole life, and both of my children know I love them completely and wholly and without reservation. In my family, we kid each other about things like that. It's all done in fun.

In this particular instance with my step-daughter, I simply used "the daughter" for no other reason than lots of people around here write DS or DD (simple shorthand)--which I find to be no more harmful/offensive than "the daughter."

Give it a rest already. Sheesh.

Bulldozer, I call DS18 "the boy". I get it. I do...

that does work, kajem. i know. when DD was very small, she would pick up a ball or something at the drug store and i would simply tell her that it was ready to go back home and be with its friends. we also say goodbye to things. we do the "five more minutes" warnings, etc.

everything seems to help some.

You've gotten a lot of great advice, and it sounds like you've taken to heart that one key here is developing your own good relationship with your SD.

I don't have kids (or step-kids), but personal experience tells me that developing a good positive relationship with her is really going to be the key here.

My experience? How I dealt with my sister as she was growing up. In a lot of ways, it was similar to what a step-parent has to deal with. I was almost 10 years older, with no siblings in between (we have a brother who is ~ 4 years older than I). Obviously, I had no real authority over her. Mom and Dad (mostly Mom - she really handled the discipline) did discipline and such. But... I was expected (fairly so) to be able to be above the "childish" stuff my sister did.

The problem is, it put me in a difficult position. When she pulled stuff on me (and she did!), I couldn't discipline her... that was our parents' place. But if mom/dad didn't see what she did... Well, my choices were to either do something back, which got me in trouble, of course, or to tell mom & dad. But when I tried to tell them, most times I got the response that I was a lot older and should be able to handle it.

Believe me, I was sort of angry about that in the beginning. But I quickly realized that I had to learn how to get her to behave even though I couldn't punish her or make her. and especially since she quickly figured out that she could do stuff that made me mad (coming into my room, hitting/biting me, claiming I had thrown her against a wall when I hadn't - yes, at 4 she figured all this out) and I couldn't do a dang thing about it.

By the time this really got to be an issue, I had started driving. So, I started doing something very simple... whenever she did something to me, I would say something like, "Darn, I was just thinking about taking you out for ice cream, but I don't take kids who do stuff like that anywhere." And I didn't.

I followed this up, though, with actually taking her to do fun stuff, or doing fun stuff with her at home. I would just pick a time when she had been being nice to me, or at least not trying to be a pain in my... side... :) or trying to get me in trouble, and I would then say, "Hey, let's go to the park," "Hey, let's go get some ice cream," "Wanna play a game?", etc.

It took very little time for this to work. In fact, I think I only really had to "announce" that I had been planning to do something nice for her, but now I couldn't because she had been bad, for her to quit acting like that (at least, most of the time... all kids have moments when they act up).

Of course, this wouldn't have worked if she hadn't known that I DID do those nice things for her on a fairly regular basis.

The added bonus of this (and what I think my mom was trying for) is that my sister and I became (and have remained) close. With that big of an age difference, I'm not sure that would have happened otherwise.

All three of us are pretty close to each other, in fact.

Take this for what it's worth... I know it was my sister, and we were both still kids, but it seems that this kind of interaction could probably go a long way for you as well.

by the way, i'm not trippin on the whole "the daughter" thing. we talk like that all the time here too. i do hope you get to have the real daughter experience with her in the end.

Because you know me so well. Jesus Christ. I think you're making a lot of nothing in this case over the use of the word "the."

Nope. I dont know you at all.

However the tone of your posts ooze with dislike for your step-daughter, so I think it was a safe assumption that "the daughter" was not being used in a loving/fun manner.

ETA:

My original intent wasnt to make a big deal out of what people call their kids. Coupled with the tone of his posts the use of "the daughter" didnt seem friendly at all.

Have a lovely day/one on one time with your step-daughter.

[This message edited by GabyBaby at 1:19 PM, May 16th (Thursday)]

both of my children know I love them completely and wholly and without reservation

And it will be great, I'm sure, for your stepdaughter to feel the love too.

I'm glad you are keeping an open mind about this. Little children act out when they don't feel they have any other way to get what they want or what they need. A child is not being a brat for having a temper tantrum. The child is using the only behavior they understand and know to try to get what they want. We all use behaviors to get what we want, but by the time we are grown, we find more useful and successful means to get what we want than throwing tantrums (some of us, there are actually adults that still throw them also).

Children need unconditional love, praise, and firm and unwavering boundaries. They need to feel that they are wanted and part of the family. This little girl has had absolutely NO stability in her short life so far. I am sure she feels like she is free-falling most of the time. The next time she throws a tantrum (and she will again), try to sit back and not let it affect you personally. Try to remember she is using the only behavior that in her four short years has worked for her from time to time. This just calls for being more intelligent than the child, not severe discipline, dislike, or removing yourself from the situation.

When my children had tantrums about wanting something in the store that I was not going to buy, if they would not calm down in a reasonable amount of time (a few minutes), I would calmly pick them up and remove them from the situation (which many times meant leave the store.) Yes it was inconvenient, but I never had a real problem with tantrums. My kids threw a few, but they realized it wasn't getting them what they wanted so they learned to try different ways to get what they wanted. It is okay to give them what they want sometimes (and also very important to tell them no from time to time and stick with it). Use the positive reinforcement that others have written about here.

She is old enough to understand gold stars on a chart. A gold star or two for good behavior, small chores, etc....and the positive consequence can be that sucker, that small toy, etc.... although with a 4 year old you have to do things quickly and not make them too involved. 1 or 2 gold stars, and a quick trip (within an hour or so) to the store.

Also, your wife is most likely giving in to the child because she is feeling guilty about the instability her daughter has had in her life so far (or afraid to be the "strict" parent that the child will not like all the time.) In either case, she needs parenting classes, fast. It doesn't help the child to give in to them, in the long run it only makes them more insecure. And she can't be the child's friend. She has to be the parent. Parenting classes or family counseling would be an excellent idea here.

Good luck, this is not an unworkable situation...just one that needs patience and perseverance.

Bulldozer, all people have to go on is what YOU have posted. I'm sorry you aren't liking the responses but it doesn't mean you can attack the members responding to you. Post respectfully or don't post at all.

[This message edited by metamorphisis at 3:53 PM, May 16th (Thursday)]

I don't have much advice - cuz I have four bona-fide 'genius' children and know how very difficult to parent them it can be. For example, my lovely 10-year-old daughter and I duked it out two weeks ago because (drum roll) she didn't want to take a shower and brush her hair. (We're talking an hour-long battle here in front of grandparents - ugh! Not fun.)

So, I offer my sympathies! Difficult children are difficult to parent. Period. Throw in a step-parent, a move, and all that other stuff -- and I can't begin to imagine.

Everyone can offer advice, but in the end you and your wife will need to find strategies that work for both of you. Oh - and those strategies will need to change as she grows older and smarter.

The hardest thing for me to remember is to focus on the positive. Its very easy to focus on how stubborn and irritating a child can be - especially when other things in your life get wonky. BUT - I find my difficult child responds much, much better when I do whatever I can to complement her on SOMETHING. ANYTHING! When all she gets is negative attention - she learns that to get attention, it must be negative.

Good luck ...

However the tone of your posts ooze with dislike for your step-daughter, so I think it was a safe assumption that "the daughter" was not being used in a loving/fun manner.

ETA:

My original intent wasnt to make a big deal out of what people call their kids. Coupled with the tone of his posts the use of "the daughter" didnt seem friendly at all.

Have a lovely day/one on one time with your step-daughter.

Ditto this. Not that it is the most important thing here by any means, but "the daughter" jumped right out at me too, and I'm pretty sure based on the first post of the thread, that the mindset behind it is exactly what we are thinking.

Anyway, that being said, I think with some dedication, cooperation, and communication between you and your wife - this can all turn around in a positive way. I really hope for all of your sakes that it does. It sounds like this little girl needs a good father figure in her life

I actually think it sounds like you might be expecting a bit much for a kid that age. Four year olds can be challenging under the best of circumstances (and these sound like pretty challenging circumstances).

When my oldest daughter was 4 I was out for a run one day with a friend who is a child development specialist and I was complaining about something and she said, "there's so much out there about the terrible twos, it's a shame no one ever talks about the fucking fours. They have intellect, they have words, they have emotions, they have manipulative abilities, but they have no sense of reason and no context. They're like cute sociopaths." It was funny, but it's sort of true.

I also wondered, reading your post, if the meltdowns often tend to be over things like the 3 ice cubes incident. Because at a minimum, it sounds like a way of her trying to feel some sense of control over her environment, which I find understandable. But it also sounds like she could be a high sensory child with some OCD-like traits (often goes with being gifted), which is a whole different story.

Bulldozer, all people have to go on is what YOU have posted. I'm sorry you aren't liking the responses but it doesn't mean you can attack the members responding to you. Post respectfully or don't post at all.

I was called both "an ogre" and a "bratty child" in this thread; those are attacks. Where is the admin warning to those forum members?

Stating that I thought someone was making something out of the word "the" and asking someone to stop is not an attack.

I thank the people who gave me their well-intentioned and -considered advice (and their 2X4s) in this thread. I didn't like some of the hard knocks that I took, but I was/am appreciative.

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If you had a concern about the guidelines you could have brought it to any one of the moderating team. You still have the ability to do so. What we won't be doing is arguing in this thread and detracting from the purpose of this board with drama.

BD, I haven't been on here in ages, but I came on and found your post.

As someone who is an "oldtimer" I might have more familiarity than some with you and your posts, and your history.

I don't remember the timing - if this is a relationship that you posted about before the marriage?

In any case, are you getting counseling? Not just a few family/marital sessions, but you as an individual?

I'd really encourage you to if you aren't. You are at a difficult point in your relationship with your spouse and there are some things that I think you need to work through in the safety of IC on your own.

I have not read all the responses but will share a bit of my experience and some thoughts.

I do think that you said this was hurting your M and it is. I can understand that 100%. Some of this spills into resentment of step-DD.

This is really more about resenting your wife and her choice to ignore or even at times reward bad behavior.

She sounds like a very normal 4 year old who NEEDS boundaries, to hear the word no (and have that enforced sometimes) and she needs discipline. Easy for me to say because we are in agreement that all kids need boundaries and discipline. And I disagree with the way you say your wife handles her.

Unless you can come to terms (possibly with counseling) how the two of you are going to resolve this major philosophy difference about raising children, things might not get better.

I also married my H within six months of meeting him. I married my first H within that same time frame after meeting him, as well (some of us never learn!)

But my current M has worked and we will soon be celebrating our 18th anniversary, there have surely been some awful bumps in our road that came close to ruining our M forever.

I had three gifted children but they were disciplined in the ways I thought were important. I was not really good at getting them to pick up after themselves, or cleaning their rooms, etc. But they had manners, were respectful to adults, didn't get mad or have tantrums when they were told "no" etc., and were well behaved in public, 99% of the time, especially my DDs. My son was a little more difficult at times.

My H didn't like their messiness and this seemed to be the main form of "relationship" he had with my kids, to yell at them about their messes. He was not involved with anything they did at school, or anything else. I have to say that he failed as a step-father and I felt like I was still a single mother in that way. My XH loved the kids and did stuff with them on weekends, but he never attended school functions and was not involved with any of those kinds of weekday things. To make it worse, when I would tell my H to do "bonding" things with my kids, he would say stuff like: “They already have a father for that. They don't need me.”

But his youngest DD lived with us too and here comes the hard part: I failed as a step-mother too. She was 13 when we got married, and though I did not "resent" her at that point, I did think she was spoiled and that he spoiled her. I actually thought I'd be taking over a lot of the day to day parenting for all four kids and I would treat her the same as my own kids and we would bond and I would love her as my own. I believed that and intended for it to happen.

But he had NO rules that were enforced for his DD! He never yelled at her, never checked her room, and never disciplined her. But always told her that she was wonderful, great, cute, perfect, popular, sweet, etc.

She played softball and he was the coach. Some parents are hard on their own kids but he was biased in the other way. A parent told me that before I met him, this happened at a game:

She threw a bat once after striking out, and it hit another girl! He ran to his DD instead of the other girl and asked his DD if she was okay! Sounds crazy, but after watching how he was with my kids and his DD, I fully believe that did happen.

He had a "rule" that the kids could not eat in their rooms. His very social DD would have lots of friends over and they'd take bags of food in her room and he would not say a word. If one of my kids headed away from the table with a glass of water, he would bark "Where do you think you are going with that?"

Most of the time I realized this was his and my issue and not something any of the kids including his DD should be blamed for. I see now more than ever his DD was a typical teenager who had her father wrapped around her finger, and was not above "using that" even if it caused problems in our M.

She did what any other child her age would have likely done in the circumstances. Yes we fought over the kids and yes she knew it, and no she didn't seem to care and may have even threw in some situations to provoke it even more.

And yes, be it right or wrong, I grew to resent her, but the bigger picture was I resented her father because even then I knew this was his fault more than hers.

One day she left me a note that said "Bite Me!" because she was upset I suggested she clean her room after something that was kind of extreme, and after my H had told me that he would ask her to clean it. He did two weeks earlier but she didn't do it. Why would she? She knew there were no consequences for not doing so, other than possibly him and I fighting about it.

Well, after the Bite Me incident, I told him to address that with her. He said "When the time is right." (I knew that meant never).

That made me so angry the next time she came in the house, I let her have it verbally! I'm not proud of it. When my anger and resentment build up enough, my biggest weakness is controlling my mouth. And I didn't control it that day.

She called her mother to come and get her and of course I was the bad guy in both parent's eyes by that time. But I knew how much my H loved and even worshipped this DD and I did not think our M would survive. I thought she'd come back, but I planned to move out. I even started looking for apartments for my kids and I. Two years into our M, I realized that day I could not live like that anymore.

It was not because I "couldn't stand" his DD it was because I could not stand his parenting and step parenting and the unfairness in our household.

Well, when he saw me looking for apartments and heard my plan, he asked me not to. Not many words were said but I could tell he was hurting (he wears his emotions). So I didn't continue with the plan to move at that time. I figured DD would come back and we'd have to see how things would be handled then.

But she never came back. She lived with her mother after that. I believe my H deeply resented this but we never talked about it. He continued to be distant from my kids, not much of a "parent" figure at all. But most of the time I was in control enough so he was not too mean to them and we just went on, with them essentially having one parent at home, and their "real" father on weekends.

Well, all the kids grew up and left and it seemed we had made it through all that and things were going to be okay. But no, the worst year of all was yet to come.

In 2006, he got involved with the OW soon after his mother died on Christmas Day 2005.

Later in 2006, his youngest DD passed away at age 24. I didn't realize it but he was still in his A through that whole time period.

Any parent would be devastated, but he went crazy for real when she died. This is not the forum to share all that aftermath again, but let’s just say there were tough times. But it all came to a head on D-day #2. This was the day that my H turned his life around and started to become a better person and a better husband, even a better step father (even though too late). He became a better person in every way. I never expected it but it is how the turn of events have gone in our lives. We now have grandchildren and I never would have predicted this in a million years but he is closer to my son's kids than his own kids' kids. Part of the reason is that we see them more, but I know another part of the reason is that both he and I now (finally and too late) see all our kids as "our kids" and the grandkids as "our grandkids."

Even though I'm no perfect saint either, I still believe most of our problems with the kids were caused by the actions or inactions of my H, and I would NOT have remained married to him if the situation continued in our household with different sets of rules for my kids and his.

[This message edited by Bobbi_sue at 4:04 AM, May 18th (Saturday)]

I became the step mom to a very bright 5 year old girl years ago. She will get her PhD in nuclear physics next year.

She was challenging and it sounds like in some of the same ways. She was very dramatic, very intelligent, and a perfectionist. Hence, I understand the 3 ice cubes bit. StepD had to have her sandwiches cut in 5 asymetrical pieces.

Don't react emotionally. Intelligence over emotion, always. She is who she is, and no amount of any special type of parenting will change her fundamental personality. However, how you deal with her definitely will affect her maturing and coping skills. It's not a happy place to be when you MUST have 3 ice cubes and do not get them, and then parents are angry, too.

My husband would simply take stepD out of the situation until she was calm. If it was a restaurant, he would pick her up and carry her out to the parking lot. He would talk calmly to her, telling her they would go back in when she was calm. Sometimes I thought he was a bit too overaccomodating, but she is a lovely young woman now with great social skills and I can't say he was wrong.

The main thing was to not react emotionally to her. She's not a brat, she's just a child learning everything for the first time. Help her, don't avoid her. Becoming great parents to her will pay back in the future a hundredfold.

Good luck.

She's not a brat, she's just a child learning everything for the first time. Help her, don't avoid her. Becoming great parents to her will pay back in the future a hundredfold.

This! I think it's great that you planned some one on one time with her BD, doing this regularly will(although at times won't stop certain behaviors)almost 100% payoff in the long run. Kids NEED guidance and to be shown healthy boundaries through unconditional love and patience, perhaps this is why you were brought into her life.

This is why people shouldn't rush into a marriage after only 6 months.

I'm a mom of 4 who once dated a man with a spoiled daughter and I got out of that relationship so quick. I never expect anyone to love my children the way I do either. In

and would completly understand someone not wanting to be involved with my kids.

I have a SO now for almost 9 yrs.

He does not have children and I made sure he was a keeper and waited almost a year before even introducing him to my children. 2 were in diapers at the time and 2 were teenagers. He loves my children and has become a fathet figure to them. He never spends the night with them here.

I think your step-daughter may be competing for her mother's attention.

I've always thought the 1st year was the "fake" year. Always on our best behavior, everything is always under perfect conditions.

The 2nd year is more realistic. You see the real person, more of their family, kids etc. Their guard is let down and you see how they deal with everyday situations. Kids, finances, everyday problems etc.

[This message edited by forced2moveon at 2:38 PM, May 20th (Monday)]