SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Considering what you've just posted, that she cuts herself, and beats herself bloody, please, please get the VAR. She is going to accuse you of DV. It's not a matter of "if" it's a matter of "when." And,being an attorney, she knows how to do it so she won't get caught lying. You must protect yourself. The next time she lays a finger on you, call the police. She should be disbarred considering all of her actions.

I've spent the last hour reading through her posts. She pats herself on the back constantly, painting herself as the remorseful WS, and you as her abuser.

File for divorce. There is nothing to save here.

She's physically abused you in front of your children. File for sole custody as well. Those poor kids.

How are your girls x8?

It's easy for people to say get D immediately because of the level of toxic in your house but they don't see your girls faces begging you to stay because they will bare the abuse 100% of the time once you are out of the house instead of just sometimes.

I ask again x8. How are your girls?

How much abuse are they taking?

yop

She pats herself on the back constantly, painting herself as the remorseful WS, and you as her abuser.

Oh my god that is EXACTLY what I told her. I even said she is going to break her arm patting herself on the back so much and that I was going to get her a machine to do it for her for Christmas. THIS is why I am here, people that understand and see what I see and have felt what I have feel. I have had the feelings for so many years and she would just beat me down for having them, telling me im crazy, im hurting her by accusing her, swearing on our kids life she wasn't cheating, etc. It's like a weight being lifted off every time I come here.

dummyx8,

If you're telling the truth, and I believe you are, there is a profound disconnect with reality and your wife.

It seems absurd to think that she will somehow get better. I mean, she's done what you say and yet she's still finding a way to say that YOU are abusive. I also agree with what wk55hn said, she isn't the type that likes to lose. Expect the cops to be involved shortly.

I think you can also assume that she's been reading this thread and isn't thrilled with being exposed or the advice we're giving you.

Honest advice? get your ducks in a row. See if you can find the bpd diagnosis, and the fact that you can probably get her disbarred if you want to. I think you will need that leverage.

good luck.

[This message edited by mike7 at 12:11 PM, December 6th (Tuesday)]

It's easy for people to say get D immediately because of the level of toxic in your house but they don't see your girls faces begging you to stay because they will bare the abuse 100% of the time once you are out of the house instead of just sometimes.

I ask again x8. How are your girls?

How much abuse are they taking?

They seem ok, we keep the fighting to a min except for Sunday when I was letting all hell break loose. She would constantly make me out to be the bad guy with the kids. If I got onto them for something she would tell them I was wrong for getting onto them and that I needed to apologize to them. It got to the point that one of my daughters learned that nothing she ever did was wrong, it was just dad being a mean bully for correcting her because mom always said that. She began to learn (just like her mom) that she isn't responsible for her actions. One day one of my daughters got in my face and yelled at me after I grounded her from her ipad so I popped her in the mouth with my fingers and told her she will never get in my face and yell at me. My wife told me I was to apologize to her for that and then daughter began yelling at me that she hates me, im not her dad, you can't spank me,etc and the wife never bats an eye. I spanked my daughter one time for yelling at us and throwing a shoe in our direction and I spanked ber on her butt and my wife told our MC that I physically abused my daughter. Funny thing is my wife actually spanked her. Why did she spank her, well my daughter yelled at my wife and slammed my wife's head in a door. My wife spanked her and then quickly apologized for spanking her. My wife admitted that she would do that stuff because her mom never stuck up for her with her step dad so she was always going to stick up for her daughter. My daughter can yell at her, scream at her, throw things, tell her no, and all my wife would do would be to ignore it and bury her head in her cell phone.

The kids school would only contact me when my daughter need discipline and not my wife because they knew my wife wouldn't do it. For YEARS I was the only one going up to the school to take care of the kids issues. My wife tries to say that its just because Im in education and thats why they call me. Im a principal in a school thats in a different town than the ones my kids go to school in, I have no professional contact with these people. Hell when I first started going up to the school to take care of my daughters issues I was a teachers aid. My professional position had nothing to do with, it was my actual parenting.

Since MC she has admitted these flaws and has began to hold my daughter more responsible for her behavior instead of giving her an excuse (mean dad) and her behavior has actually drastically improved. I agreed to no longer spank my daughter (I have spanked her MAYBE 4 times in 2 years).

The kids asked today if we were getting a divorce and I just said maybe, well see. I struggle with what to tell them about all this stuff.

and the fact that you can probably get her disbarred if you want to

I told her before I was going to do that because she was giving blow jobs (1 blow job as she likes to correct me) at the court house and fucking an attorney when they were each representing opposing clients. But im such a little bitch I couldn't bring my self to do that.

[This message edited by dummyX8 at 9:48 AM, December 12th (Monday)]

Whew! Lots of things going on there x8. I'm happy to hear you know somewhat what's going on with them at some level...unlike my father who ignored the situation, but don't presume that they are ok. That said, you and your FWW are clearly your kids FOO issues. Your daughters acting out is no coincidence. Chances are your FWW is passing her BPD traits or mental illness else onto your kids. I'm sure there is some PTSD in there for your kids with what they are witnessing (thus the divorce comments). Your kids probably know more about what is going on than you think.

As a professional in education I'm sure you deal with home situations all the time. Above all others your kids' situation is one that you need to take the biggest active roll in. Start by getting them into IC now. Get a recommendation from your MC or even one of the counselors at their school or yours. This should be step 1. From there a good child psychologist can give you tips and help with what to do you in your sitch. They will be documenting and I'm sure can help you later in court or any D proceedings IF it should come to that. Your kids welfare should be at the top of your list and this is where I believe you should start.

Easy for me to say I know and if it was me I probably wouldn't like someone telling me what to do with my kids. But from one father to another, and this father has been in your kids shoes (why I came to SI as I'm a betrayed child), you need to put them first and start working on them.

Also, speaking from experience, fear of many things is most likely on the forefront of your kids thoughts. Needs to be addresses. They don't know what you are thinking or what your WW is thinking. They need reassurance. That doesn't mean you have to hit them with uncertainty of how the future is going to play out. But you should start an ongoing dialogue with them. Whether it's weekly, biweekly, whatever. Like all other relationships good communication is key and can cut down on a lot of the future issues as you go. You need to lead in this department. You also need to let your kids express their opinions. They may not want to but ask them questions about how they are feeling. Show them that you are safe to talk to. That you are the stable one. This is not something that happens over night and can be scary as you make yourself vulnerable to them.

IMHO THAT^^^^^ is where you start. Get them situated at the same time your get yourself mentally strong, stable, and ultimately safe for your girls. Note that the focus is on you first, then on the girls. You don't focus on WW and what she is or is not doing. As you go, your kids IC can provide you guidance along with a lawyer. Doesn't mean you have to D. I think you need a lot more research on the law and what's going on with your girls before you can proceed in getting out. These are the first ducks to get in a row.

As things progress you can then evaluate the situation as it evolves.

Speaking from experience with this level of mental illness that you are dealing with, you have to remove yourself from the nonsense and not play into it AT ALL. Not one bit. If she should threaten suicide, you call 911 immediately and remove yourself from the situation. Don't guess. Let the professionals figure out that one. If it's a threat, you will find out quick. If it's for real, then you get her the help she needs. Same goes for any future cutting or self harm of any sort. Call 911 and let them handle it.

This situation has been toxic for years and will only ramp up even further as your wife continues to downward spiral. VAR at all times is a must. Has been a savior for me. I also had my VAR rolling when my BPD stepmomster threatened suicide. All I had to do was play back the audio after her denying it. BPDs cannot calm themselves down and will go on tirades for hours or days as I'm sure you are aware. It's extremely hard to deal with these situations. Sometimes it's best to get out. Sometimes it's best to call the cops. Depends on the sitch.

But while all that is going on, the toxic level in your house is having a profound impact on your kids and they will carry it over into their adulthood. I've been in IC for 3 years now. I use SI to deal with how I was on the front lines of my mother's affairs. I use my IC for the PTSD and everything else I went through. Don't let what happened to me happen to your kids and get them help now. You will find that it will also help sort your situation out.

yop

Listen to yop.

I don't know why you're still hesitating about divorce , even if she were to transform into the most remorseful and repentant WW overnight (which is never going to happen) , would that really be enough?

After 8 affairs and the constant abuse ?

I don't know why you're still hesitating about divorce

Cause I feel bad for her. I sturggle with the debate of is she a bad person or has she just done bad things. We have basically grown up togther. We are 38 and first got together at 15. My biggest commendable trait is also my biggest weakness, loyalty. The friends I had at 11yrs old are still my friends today because I stick with people through it all. I hope that somehow someway she will be different and be the person she was pretending to be all these years. I hesitate because of hope.

Cause I feel bad for her. I sturggle with the debate of is she a bad person or has she just done bad things. We have basically grown up togther. We are 38 and first got together at 15. My biggest commendable trait is also my biggest weakness, loyalty. The friends I had at 11yrs old are still my friends today because I stick with people through it all. I hope that somehow someway she will be different and be the person she was pretending to be all these years. I hesitate because of hope.

So you have basically let her know that no matter what she does you are not leaving her? So why should be afraid of your consequences when you have been giving the complete opposite signals?

Its irrelevant whether or not if she is bad, she is bad for you

Even worse the situation you are in that will probably not change is REALLY bad for your children.

The behavior she is modeling will have a lifetime of consequences for them

Cause I feel bad for her. I sturggle with the debate of is she a bad person or has she just done bad things. We have basically grown up togther. We are 38 and first got together at 15. My biggest commendable trait is also my biggest weakness, loyalty. The friends I had at 11yrs old are still my friends today because I stick with people through it all. I hope that somehow someway she will be different and be the person she was pretending to be all these years. I hesitate because of hope.

I understand. It's not that simple. This is someone you love and you can't switch that off like a light switch. If you could we would be having a much different conversation.

My father was also loyal. He hung in there for six years after our first dday. He was also a victim of my mother's abuse in it's NPD form. He was also extremely codependent. When he met BPD stepmomster he traded one set of toxic unhealthy for another. It was what he was used to.

But as a parent he didn't end up protecting us kids from the abuse. Or getting help. He went round and round with the disfunction hoping it would change. He also said he stayed with my mother as long as he did to keep an eye on us kids. Whatever that means because he didn't do anything to stop the abuse but just kept playing into it over and over again hoping the situation would change.

This is where you are going to find that you can't control your WW or hope that she will get better. Only she can do that and she clearly doesn't want to. Loyalty to a fault can be close to codependent.

It's not like it's bad all the time though is it? There are plenty of great and happy times that also happen. My IC had a very good analogy for me last night on this very topic. It's like living in a war zone. You get bombed and blown up one day and everything is bad. Could be sometime later, 2 months or whatever where you are cruising along and everything seems to go back to normal and you may even rebuild a little bit when BOOM!!! You get blown up again 2 months later. You know there is a ticking time bomb there and you walk on eggshells to not set it off. I guarantee your kids go through the same thing. I did. And things were always worse when my father wasn't around as us kids would be the target. Forget us telling our father about it or anyone else for that matter is that would make is worse for us. Just trying to survive and get through the war zone ya know?

Even those 2 months where everything is great stunts your emotions because of having to walk on eggshells. At least that's how it was for me. Maybe it's different for you and I'm trying not to project, but I'm also trying to open your eyes and take a look around you to what else is going on. When you are in as much pain as you are in it's easy to miss what else is going on around you.

Loyalty, hope, history, all things that can be very dangerous and used under the guise of CoD. Especially in a toxic environment.

I have done a lot of PD research and been seeing a specialist for almost 3 years. The education process has been huge for me. I had all sorts of hope. After all clinically they say that a BPD can get better over time. Seems to lessen over the years even. But what I found is that unless it's treated, worked on daily, and the person that you love WANTS to do it, they actually get worse over time and years.

It's strange that often what many PDs (cluster B types) fear the most is abandonment. Yet in the end they end up pushing everyone away. I did not want to divorce my mother. I ended up having to as she didn't respect any of my boundaries. In fact balked at the fact that I even had boundaries. One of the hardest things I've had to do was go NC with my mother. I did it to protect myself and protect my family. It goes against everything I was "programmed" to do. Especially since I was "programmed" to have empathy for my mother. I felt immense guilt. I felt like a bad person. But everyday that I was able to get away I grew mentally stronger. Things slowly became more clear as I began to "wake up".

It's not easy to file for D of any kind. It's not easy to get to a place where you are healthy enough to see things in the correct perspective. But it is imperative to get yourself to a healthy place.

You ever consider IC for yourself? Away from your wife in MC. A good one should be able to help "educate" you as to what is going on. That "education" process helped me immensely.

yop

[This message edited by yearsofpain25 at 2:26 PM, December 6th (Tuesday)]

DX8, you have been through hell and back. Calling your WW harsh names is not what I consider abuse at all. Every word of every name you called her was the absolute truth. It was your truth from your perspective. In light of all of the hell she has put you through for so long (her abusive gas lighting, her mind games, her flat out emotional abuse in cheating on you so rampantly, etc), I'd probably have a few more choice names to call her if it were me dealing with it.

I was gas lit by my WH for 18 very long years so I do know the toll that it takes. As an abuse victim myself, I also know that you have every right to stand up for yourself in light of her horrid treatment of you and her unbridled selfishness in your marriage. You have been put through more hell than anyone deserves to have to endure. You deserve better and your kids deserve better than to be exposed her her toxic drama day in and day out. Even if you fail to protect yourself from her in a more meaningful way than just withdrawing, protect your kids from her antics. It's far better that they are from a broken home than to be living in one 24/7. And I would not encourage you to leave them in that situation AT ALL. Your WW is abusive and she threw those kids under the bus in pursuit of her extramarital abusiveness just as much as she did you. Both you and they deserve so much better than that.

Seriously? Dx'd Borderline?

How much do you know about it?

Just what I googled about it.

Just what I googled about it.

Your best place to go is to IC to educate yourself. A place where I learned a lot is Out of the Fog. It's kinda like SI for dealing with personality disorders. You need to educate yourself.

yop

Just what I googled about it.

Your best place to go is to IC to educate yourself. A place where I learned a lot is Out of the Fog. It's kinda like SI for dealing with personality disorders. You need to educate yourself.

yop

My friend, after 22 years with a BPD personality, I GUARANTEE you need IC. You probably have no concept of just how severely you have been damaged. Your children as well.

Ok, you've googled it. There is no cure and there is no prescription designed specifically to treat it. The best therapy is IC and that is only effective when the BPD affected person accepts that they are the problem and actively seeks treatment, not grudgingly.

Please, PLEASE protect yourself and your kids. A false DV charge is more likely than not.

Strength

but I know im Charlie Brown and she is Lucy.

Late to this party, but I know the feeling. I told my XW that many times with her promises of change - yeah, she was Lucy telling me THIS TIME ITS DIFFERENT. And every time I landed on my back.

You can read the details in my profile, but short version: My xW was diagnosed Bipolar II, ADHD, depression, and one therapist thought she might be BPD (never offically diagnosed - XW bailed on that therapist). I think she is comorbid with BPD/NPD.

Multiple affairs over 7 years, blamed me for them. Did the smirk thing a lot of times. Accused me of being abusive because I yelled at her - after catching her with OMen. Basically everything you described, including the cutting - she told me she was going to kill herself and did that when I found sext messages on her phone and wouldn't give it back; I had to call the police at which point she told them it was stress release not suicide. The BPD/NPD are EXTREMELY manipulative and look normal to the outside world. And when you are upset about the manipulation and she's projecting normal, guess who looks like the insane one? It ain't her.

I will respectfully disagree with YOP - you really can't change a person with personality disorders. My first therapist who I saw after D-day#1 said when I told him about XW possibly being BPD, said in all his years (30+) he never saw anyone change. Go on websites about NPD/BPD (or here) and see how many success stories there are - very, very few.

I can tell you this: Now that you know about your WW cheating, you will be on the look out for more. And, the fact that your WW has been doing this for years means she won't stop. What that adds up to is a hell of a lot of pain, frustration and anger for you. It will literally start to drive YOU crazy.

It will boil over; in fact you already have. That's when you get hit with the abuse accusations. Not fun when the cops come and question you about being abusive for just asking who your WW is sexting (you've got the proof in your hand), BTDT (Which is why we say get the VAR).

As for your kids - they will suffer too. My XW started cheating when my oldest was 11. About a month after I found out, my DD started throwing fits - smashed my bedroom door with a metal chair. I grabbed her to stop her and hold her. Guess what? 6 years later my XW said I was beating my daughter on that day.

My middle daughter when she was 15 (two years ago) OD'd because she was so depressed and anxious over my XW's crazy behavior (we were separated, XW would go out partying and not come home).

My youngest didn't go to school for almost 3 years because of the anxiety and depression he suffered with dealing with XW - he found my middle daughter ODed and my XW OD'd 18 months earlier.

Now, are you going to have the same fate? I don't know. But I do know that BPD/NPD have a great tendency to spiral out of control. My ex started ~37 yo.

I know you want to help her (wait until you get the "if I had cancer would you abandon me?" speech from WW), but really you can't. In fact, any sign of help, compassion from you just screams "Sucker! He's buying my bullshit" to the PD.

I'm extremely loyal too. That's part of why we got sucked in to begin with, but you need to detach yourself from her as best you can (the 180).

I tell you all of this because this is what living with an unremorseful PD person is like. You know it. You've talked about all the abuse and disrespect you've already suffered. What will happen if you give in to her after knowing all about her affairs? She'll interpret that as a green light. In fact, she's already testing the boundaries with this retirement party. I can guarantee, in her mind, since there were no consequences (and you getting mad isn't a consequence to her - it is validation that she can control you and manipulate you), she can continue on.

You've been abused enough. Get out to protect your sanity and your kids.

[This message edited by WornDown at 3:50 PM, December 6th (Tuesday)]

This thread is no longer appropriate for the Reconciliation Forum. Moving to General.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:53 PM, December 6th (Tuesday)]

Cause I feel bad for her. I sturggle with the debate of is she a bad person or has she just done bad things. We have basically grown up togther. We are 38 and first got together at 15. My biggest commendable trait is also my biggest weakness, loyalty. The friends I had at 11yrs old are still my friends today because I stick with people through it all. I hope that somehow someway she will be different and be the person she was pretending to be all these years. I hesitate because of hope.

You hesitate because you are in denial.

Do you honestly think she is going to change? Have you seen any evidence that she might?

She is a narcissistic serial cheater and WILL cheat again in time. If she can get away with it 8 times what's 1 or more if the opportunity presents itself? Serial cheaters don't stop just because they get caught.

If half of what you wrote is true then I can see no reason to even be in the same room as her much less R. Her affairs were not accidents, she had them because she wanted to and felt entitled.