SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Update! :)

This has been a good week. All my kids are well, were able to go to school and childcare so I could do my IC and attend S-Anon. I'm getting caught up on the domestic front, am sleeping better, trying to remind myself not to live on coffee, diet coke, and cookies.

So my second IC, the CSAT is still gathering my info. More about my FOO, and basically how WH and I met and spent the last 15 years. I was, before this whole thing went down, a very positive, glass half-full, see the good in everyone and everything kind of person. I don't really feel that way now, but because it is my habit when I tell my story to anyone, I still go through the motions of trying to put a positive spin on things.

However, my life for the last 15 years is, in many ways, so depressing. Seriously, my whole life has been one step forward two steps back. WH and I have been hit with a number of negative life changes and each time we get back up again, we get knocked down by things out of our realm control. Genuine Lifetime movie type stuff, LOL. And the whole time, I'm trying to spout half glass full type comments but I can't believe my own life story sometimes.

So while there's no sexual or substance abuse, no physical abuse, etc in my life story (and not in his either) there's lots of death, layoffs, moving cross country multiple times to make a new start, kids with massively time-consuming medical and behavioral issues, crushing debt, etc. So anyway it's no wonder I didn't see the SA freight train coming, LOL, I have been furiously scooping water out of the lifeboat for years. I don't like to think about that stuff. I like to forget and be grateful for what we have now, look for opportunities in the future. But I guess you never know where you are gonna go until you know where you have been.

Then at the end of every session, this therapist has us pull a heart stone out of a bag, to give us a new focus each time. Last time I got "Honesty", which frankly has been hard for me to focus on, being honest about my own stuff. This time I got "Miracles Happen" which she says is very rare to get. I'm taking it as a positive sign, that I'm in for many good things to come.

today I finally got to go to my second S-Anon meeting. I've missed two due to the pestilence in my house, LOL. This meeting has an optional step work component beforehand, that I will attend (because when else am I going to be able to do it, honestly). Today I worked on step one, and I took my shovel/spoon analogy a bit further.

Said that SA has consumed my life to the point even mundane daily tasks have become overly difficult and sometimes nearly impossible. That it is like digging ditches with a spoon, instead of a shovel. And when you are used to digging ditches with a shovel, you really come to resent that spoon. You hate your WH for putting you in a position that you have to use a spoon now. You hate that your higher power has taken your shovel away. You hate yourself for not being grateful that at least you have a spoon. And it all just makes you angry and further pushes the cycle of the vortex of SA consuming your life.

So I meditated on it, thought about it, prayed about it. This is what I came up with. Right now, I need the spoon. If I had the shovel now, like I mentioned before, I'd whack my DH with it and bury him in the back yard. And that wouldn't really help anybody, LOL. And now that it takes so long to dig ditches with a spoon, I have to question everything I do. Is this a ditch that I *need* to dig, that is essential to my existence, my healing, my recovery, my health? Or do I want to dig it because I've always dug it, never questioned why I dug it, and I don't know any other way? Is my time best served by digging this ditch, now or ever? Do I need I to dig it all? Or maybe I need instead build a bridge. Or, as someone else pointed out later, maybe I need to use the spoon to feed me instead. Right now I need to question everything, make sure that in this new chapter in my life I am dedicating my energy to the right things.

And THAT is why I have a spoon, why my shovel was taken away. It is a blessing in disguise, and I need to stop being angry about it.

One day at a time...

I just responded to a thread in Wayward about a SA's struggles with his BS. While my post was focused on his particular issues and circumstances, looking at it again now I think it really says more about mine. So I'm going to repost it here for historical purposes, LOL:

Stopsayingtry brings up valid points, which I was holding back on because my post was already long and I'm trying to follow the S-Anon advice of not pushing someone on the 12 steps faster than their destined time frame, LOL. But let me say this.

Good luck to you both.

So an update....

I'm a little freaked out right now. At IC it came up that this will be our first Christmas with just us and the kids, no other family. We need to think about new traditions we want to do, and how we can connect with the extended family appropriately long distance yet maintain our own thing here. What I'm going to do with the kids on break, etc. I don't *think* it will be awkward or hostile with no other people in the mix, but I have to be prepared, I guess.

Talked about boundaries some in IC. I think I'm better aligned on that now. And we discussed my self-perception among other things. I think I have a pretty accurate perception about how much I don't know about myself. Apparently I was indirectly led to believe what I wanted didn't matter as a child. So since it doesn't matter, I haven't really thought deeply about what I want. In anything. And now that I think about it, I'm probably teaching my kids the same thing. Ugh. And if you don't know what you want, it's hard to define boundaries. And exercise the right intent and purpose of them.

It's been a harsh reality to come to these conclusions. I like to think I am a pretty good problem solver, and I kick ass and take names when issues arise. But I'm not really doing that if I don't address what I really want first. I didn't want to see that my FOO has set me up to be this way, and that I'm repeating the same mistakes with my children. Ouch. The last thing I want for them is to go through what I'm going through now, and I'm pretty much setting them up for that.

We BSs get so lost in the hurt and the damage control that we forget to do the most important things for ourselves. I'm learning to overcome that. I can't even really think about WH much right now, if he's doing what he says he is and what he's supposed to. I have too much of myself at stake at the moment.

So what has happened lately? Lots of stuff. I've had more than a few epiphanies.

First, when I went back and reviewed my original list of boundaries/requirements (earlier in this thread), I found that multiple ones were not being met to my satisfaction. However, upon further introspection and re-reading this thread, I realized something. Even though I was so careful in preparing that list, and using the right delivery with the "I" statements and etc, I made one grave tactical error. I didn't tell WH beforehand I was going to do it. I just had decided to do it when when we planned to do informal full disclosure, right before that discussion so I could do it without being emotionally compromised after disclosure. Which is all very well and good for ME, but in a way I kind of blindsided WH. Had I told him beforehand I was going to do it, he probably would have taken notes and been more mentally prepared to accept them and ingrain them in his life.

So what I decided to do was give them to him in writing. I told him I would do so, that it wasn't any new info, I just wanted him to have it in writing because I never gave them to him in writing. I told him this almost a week ago and A lot of holiday crap has prevented me from finishing it, so he's been on pins and needles ever since. But I *will* do it this week.

The second thing that happened, in further exploring my lack of knowing what I want, I learned something new in therapy. Apparently SAs (and I suspect serial cheaters in general) have a huge problem identifying needs and wants - they want it all and do anything to get it all, at the expense of anything and everything. That drives a lot of their behavior. Spouses/partners of SAs (and I suspect spouses of serial cheaters too) also have a problem with identifying needs and wants - but at the OPPOSITE end of the spectrum. They can't identify what they need, can't justify wants. They stay in relationships that are unhealthy and unsafe because they are unable to see it is a NEED to be only in relationships that are healthy and safe. Or in my case, I have a firm grip of what I NEED to survive, but I have trouble allowing myself the needs/wants that are required for me to THRIVE. Obviously when two spouses have differing views on needs and wants there is going to be a lot of conflict, but it the case of SAs it is considerably more amplified because there is a greater disparity. It causes a lot more conflict in my life than I give it credit for. And like everything else, I have to resolve MY internal issues to determine what I really want and need before I can even consider trying to align it with WH's. And of course he has to do the same in his recovery.

A third revelation was I turned inward with my frustrations with WH. I thought about how I was really unhappy he was not doing everything possible to get a new therapist, go to his 12 step meetings, get a sponsor, and have a recovery and relapse plan in place. And while I am certainly entitled to feel safe, and I need him to do those things to feel safe....if I am totally honest with myself, I only have three of the four things in place for MYSELF. So how can I expect him to have these things when I don't have them myself. I need to commit to my own recovery before I can lay judgment on his. I can tell him how it makes me feel all I want, but how can he take me seriously if I am not willing to do it for myself?

All very heavy stuff, especially during the holidays and a month that is very triggery for me anyway. But I *will* carry on. I'm going to figure out how to THRIVE if it kills me.

I haven't updated in a while. I post more often in the ICR thread about stuff, and I haven't been good about keeping up this thread. It's important to keep this thread updated, because I reread it now and then to remind myself where I was and where I am.

Anyway, we had a good Christmas. First of all this was our first Christmas EVER that we had no external family involved and just us. Second of all, we were mostly both on the same page about all the gifting for the kids (by us, Santa, and what the extended family gave). And I did a lot of new traditions with the kids, and some with WH too, and that was nice.

One interesting twist was WH decided he was going to give me a gift this year. We have not exchanged gifts for more than 10 years. Instead we opt to upgrade an appliance/electronic that we don't necessarily *need*, or we go on a special outing/event. WH is the worst to buy gifts for, and he's not great at giving them either. A couple of times he knocked it out of the park, a couple of times totally meh, and more often than not waited too late to get what he wanted to get and comes up empty-handed with promises of getting something later . Hence the other gifting arrangement, LOL.

So I was anxious because I didn't want to obsess about his gift, but not show up empty-handed either. And I didn't want to be mad if he fell through again. So I consulted friends, and they suggested cologne. He is big into it, but only certain ones. I wound up getting a brand he likes but a different scent than he normally uses. Told him I knew he like the brand and *I* liked the scent. So he's been wearing every day since Xmas, and was happy to get it.

He got me a memory foam travel pillow. I was a bit taken aback, like WTH is this LOL, but if you have ever used one...ooohh it feels good. But mostly it was a symbolic gift. It was to represent the travelling he and I would do as a couple, something we have put on the back burner since having kids. The kids are old enough now to leave for extended periods of time, and he wants to resume it again. Because he knows it's important to me, that it is one of few things I truly enjoy and very much miss now. Also it was to represent his commitment to allow me to travel alone, my girls night out weekends, more often to restore my sanity. He has not been especially supportive in that area (pre and post dday) and he wants to change that.

This is all stuff he told me, not stuff I derived in my mind. I truly appreciated it. It was a lovely gift.

But honestly? The best gift he gave me (and he doesn't really know it) is that he decided on a new CSAT IC and called him to set up an appointment.

Also, the first draft of my post nup is almost finished and I have an appointment to go over it in a couple weeks. That is wonderful news, and I can't wait to put that behind me so I can feel truly free in how I choose to live my life and make my decisions.

There are other things that have happened, but I need to process them more before I expand. But it is largely a positive and progressive time for me. For that I am thankful.

I realized I have not updated in a while. It's important for me to keep posting, because I go back and reread what I wrote to remember where I've been and how far I've come. This is where I am at now.

This year, I am focusing on me. Which is harder than it looks, LOL, because I have three little kids and WH is still not technically IMHO in active recovery for his SA. It's pretty ridiculous that it took seven months out for me to see that this has to happen.

So what does that entail? Weekly IC for me, and I just joined a weekly group counseling session as well. Yes, this is on top of the weekly S-Anon meeing I go to. Because if you know my whole story, anybody that has had this done to them is ALL kinds of messed up, no matter how strong they are, and needs serious help. It's expensive, all this therapy and childcare so I can go to this therapy, but it's cheaper than checking me in a looney bin I'm sure and may prevent the expense of divorce. It's taken considerable effort for me to shift my schedule, my kids' schedules, and get babysitting in place to do this. And Lord knows I'd rather use this kind of dough on massages or whatever but you do what you need to do.

I see the lawyer this week about the first draft on the post nup. I suspect there will be some additions that will need to be made but I am hoping that we can wrap this up in a month. Yup, I still have a large portion of our savings in an account in my name that he has no access to and is not the person who will get access to it if I die unexpectedly.

WH and I had a long discussion, and we are going to buy a house. Before you say WTF, you would have to understand all the particulars of our situation to understand why this is not the worst idea ever. We rent, and the area is ok but not the best. The schools are ok but not the best. We tried making the school situation better here but there is only so much we can do and while it might not get much better even in a higher ranked, more moneyed district, I doubt it could get worse in moving to that kind of district.

But mostly I need to move for ME and secondarily for US. I don't want to be here any more. I can count the number of times I've been in the basement in 2012 on one hand. I don't want to be there, that is where I had my discovery, where he frequently did his acting out that did not involve live people, and where we had our most difficult discussions late at night post-dday because it was the only place our children cannot hear us. The basement is where the kids used to spend most of their time, and now they don't because I won't go in there. It's stupid to stay here if I don't have to.

But the flip side is it is just as risky to rent as to buy here. Renting costs way more than owning, and rental homes get foreclosed on right and left here, leaving tenants with banks as landlords who don't care and evict them as soon as legally possible. Apartments are not an option because WH does not want to move unless all our kids can get their own room (they've always shared), and there really is no such thing as 4 bedroom apartments, LOL. WH doesn't want to take the rental risks, he'd rather take the owner risks, even if it means we might wind up splitting up in the future. And we can have all that addressed in the post nup so that will not be a future problem.

I know a lot of his thinking is out there, and left to my own devices I might have more seriously considered an apartment/condo and continue to let the kids share just to get them in better schools. But the truth is *I* need us to move to a family neighborhood, where there are kids to play with in walking distance and other SAHMs for me to socialize with. The kids need this as well. WH needs a neighborhood with other couples we can hang out with, and a home that he would be proud to show his coworkers to. Since moving here about 18 months ago, I have had three nonfamily people visit us and he has had none. We've not gone out with other couples at all, only the occasional night out with just us. We have no real support network here. More importantly, *I* have no real support network here.

So if it takes buying a house to do all of this, I'm ok with that. It's going to take at least 2-5 years for me to heal and get over this, regardless of what happens to us or him, and I'm not going to sit in this house here unhappy waiting for that magic moment when it's "right" to change my living situation. So I am going to start looking at houses with a realtor soon, and with any luck we will be moving over the summer.

What is he doing? He has his new IC, and he is a CSAT. He made his first appointment and made a second one for this weekend. He has not made it to a 12 step meeting this year that I know of, but the first week he was coming off Xmas vacation and got slammed with catchup work and the second week his mother and sister were visiting so he didn't have much opportunity to go. So I suppose the proof will be his attendance in the future, but honestly I don't care at the moment. I've got too much on my plate making all *my* commitments. I've already told him we can't even begin to think about resuming a physical relationship until he is in regular IC/12step/has a recovery and relapse plan in place, so it's out of my hands.

He is being present when at home, being there for me and the kids, etc but honestly I don't think he deserves a medal for that, since that is what a husband is *supposed* to do, should have been doing all along. I have randomly spot checked his email and GPS'd the car, no suspicious activity that I know of. He could of course have other means to act out but I have to trust they will be revealed to me somehow if I need to know. He appears remorseful but I would not say the remorse is on par with the gravity of his actions. But honestly if one could truly understand the gravity of those actions, one would be inclined to shoot themselves in the face. He has to go on his journey of recovery and to deal entirely with what he has done to ME at this stage in his recovery would probably destroy him. I am ok with that delay as long as he is actively making the journey to get there.

There is no real active animosity at home, we cuddle, we parent, we live our lives. I of course struggle with my demons, still have trouble sleeping, still have random moments of anger and such, but I'm getting better and stronger every day. I am trying to live in the present, and not miss my kids growing up or try not to impact their lives negatively as much as I can with what has happened. It ain't perfect but it's a hell of a lot better than it was six or seven months ago.

And that's where I'm at. IDK if it gives anyone else hope, but it gives ME hope. I will survive. And eventually I WILL thrive in spite of this. One way or another.

This is the first time I have read your post. You are doing a fantastic job of dealing with all this.

I was particularly interested in your response to the co-dependent group, as you felt you were more PTSD than co-dependent. IMHO I saw your growth in accepting you had acquired some of the co-dependent traits with the struggle your WS has with accepting his addiction and the title SA. You were more open minded and were able to embrace what you heard, process it and apply it to yourself.

Your WS hasn't reached that point of dealing with the label and what that implies. Through your post I sense he is trying very hard to meet your needs for recovery. I know you have grown over these last months. I do hope you give credit to your WS for his growth, even though it isn't as much as you would like.

I know when the post-nup is done you will feel a large weight lifting from your shoulders. Remember to just breathe, enjoy the good moments, live in the present, be supportive but also true to yourself.

You are moving along the long road to resolution (which ever way that unfolds for you).

[This message edited by momentintime at 9:12 PM, January 18th (Wednesday)]

Thanks, momentintime. You sound like the voice of experience.

I do appreciate the growth he has had. I am frustrated it is not at the rate I would like, but from what I read and hear he's cruising along at a pretty good clip all things considered. To be mad about him progressing slower than me and what I want is about as productive as being mad at my oldest for not growing as fast as my middle child, who will soon be the tallest kid. Pointless and no good can come of it, LOL.

I would LOVE to believe that we are both going to continue on the good work and the gentle path and get where we need to go together. But I also know that his recovery and MY recovery have different cycles in that 2-5 year period, and they rarely go high and low together. It will be challenging.

It hurts. I want him to be able to give 100% to me and my healing, to make amends for all that he has done. But he can't, and I am largely carrying that myself at the moment. I have to have faith that he can get there, and that if he can't I will do just fine by myself. What is important is he is giving 100% of what he can right now.

And that's really all I can ask.

As for PTSD vs co-dep, I still feel like initially I more identified with the PTSD model, but who wouldn't being shellshocked with that info. The important thing is that while I was learning about both, I realized that I was developing co-dep behaviors as a result of what happened, and if I didn't meet it head-on soon I would be textbook co-dep. And at any rate I could benefit from therapy and support groups that subscribe to beliefs that most spouses of SAs are, because I would be in the company of others that understood my unique (and not so unique) situation.

I've been really really blessed that I have found mostly the right people to help me all through my journey. SI played a big part in that, pushing me to the places I needed to go and the people I needed to see. I cannot imagine trying to go through all this unassisted, especially the holidays.

I only hope my story helps others. Because I learn a little bit from every thread I read here, and I want to give back too.

It's been an interesting couple of weeks.

I had a bad day a couple of weeks ago. Through everything that has gone on, I have never spent all day in bed, taken meds, nothing. I have three littles that don't make that possible. But this particular Sunday, I was toast. I was exhausted, depressed, in a foul mood, and NEEDED to isolate and rest for a while. And I realized I had another responsible adult in the house, and had WH deal with the kids that day. He did fine, but he was not especially nice about it. Kept interrupting my rest, letting the kids come bug me, etc and generally blowing an good opportunity to shine and get brownie points for good behavior. Then around lunchtime he said he had to go to the mall to get something (which really could have waited), and I didn't react, just said whatever. And he told the kids to leave me alone (yeah, that will work) and left for an hour to get his thing. When he came back he brought me chocolates, as an apology I guess, since this is not a man who gives flowers and chocolates. He tried to engage me in several arguments and I blew him off, and at one point he was saying something to the effect of "if you were in the same position as me, you'd expect blah blah..." I actually looked him square in the eye and said "The double standard principle does not apply to you. Ever."

But we got through that day. He's been more supportive, more attentive to me and the family, etc. which is good but as I've said not worthy of excessive congrats. You don't get medals for suddenly doing what you were supposed to be doing all along.

Anyway, I realized why I was in such a funk. I am hitting that realization of how much damage has been done, how much work I have to do to heal myself, how much work he has to do to fix himself, and how much work we will have to do to get us healed as a couple. It is daunting. It will be hard. It will take way longer than I want to admit to. And I still don't think WH has a clue how long it will take or how much effort he will have to put in. He's willing but just not at the point he can objectively see it. I think it's a wall that many BSs hit no matter what their situation is, and it sucks when you have that epiphany.

But what I see is I can't wait 2-5 years or whatever, to put everything in my life on hold while this goes on. I can't get better, we can't get better, unless we make some drastic changes in all aspects of our lives. One of those things is we have to move. To a better neighborhood, better schools, better house for a variety of different reasons that apply to every member in our family. And we made an offer on a house, and if it pans out it will be a steal. What happens if we split is addressed in the post nup, and if we have to resell it I think we can at least break even after fixing it up if not make a little money. And honestly this house is so big if we had to do an in-house separation for whatever reason, it is plenty large enough to accommodate that. This is not our first rodeo, LOL, this is the third house we've bought so we are not getting in over our heads. And if the offer on this house doesn't pan out, it's because a better one will become available in the future.

Kind of like everything else in my life right now. I'm doing the best I can, and if it doesn't pan out the way I expected, it's because I was meant to do something else better. I just gotta keep on swimming. Infidelity may have kicked my ass, but I'm not going to let it ruin my life.

I can't believe it's been over a month since I posted. So what's happened?

We bought a house. I made this impossibly long list of requirements for a house, said it had to be in a certain price range in a very specific area. It was a nearly impossible request. And I got lucky and got one almost right away. Seriously, everything we wanted in a house and more, and because the listing realtor messed up the listing, we were the only ones to bid on it the first week - many more and higher offers poured in AFTER they were locked into a contract. It will need some work, but when we are done, we will have significant equity in the house and would not take a loss if we had to sell it even right away.

So I've pretty much got my "dream house", in the area I wanted, walking distance to all the schools all my kids need for the next six years (that are way better than the schools they are in now), and even if we had to flip the house in six months we'd at least break even if not make a profit. I can make a fresh start, and when all three kids are in school next year I will have more time to address MY NEEDS in a home and area that is a clean slate.

But of course that means right now is a mess. I've got a parade of contractors to direct for the next three months to get the house move-in ready. Makes it difficult for me to do my IC, my group therapy, my S-Anon meetings. I've missed all three at least twice in the past six weeks. Which is a huge deal for me, especially since I have been making great strides in my healing. And WH has had to miss some IC as well in getting stuff done to buy the house, has not tried to go to 12 step at all. MC seems so far in the distance, since resolving our personal issues first have so far to go. I have to remind myself there is some small sacrifices to be made now to get where I want to be.

He has changed a lot of his behaviors. He spends little time on the computer at home any more, but then again he does spend a lot of time playing scrabble on his phone instead (and nothing else, I checked). He is more present for me and the family. He tries to help me with what I need, but he sucks at being able to tell what it is without a lot of direction. His efforts seem to be, be at home as much as possible, and be available as much as he can. He still. works long hours, but his time home is definitely different.

His attitude toward the house is different than our previous two home purchases. He has held back on wanting control in things that need to be done to the house, and is pretty content to just be kept in the loop of what is going on and just doing what I tell him he needs to do. In the past he would delay the stupidest little things because he wanted to check out everything I had already researched and planned the best course of action for, only to either throw monkey wrench in the plans at large or wind up agreeing with my assessment in the first place. Really home improvement is MY area of expertise, he is not handy or knowledgeable about it at all, and he just couldn't give up the control aspect. This time it is not as much of an issue. He's happy to be the finance expert on how we are going to fund all this stuff in addition the home purchase and the cost of maintaining two homes for four months and let me do what I do best. He's very excited to be in this new neighborhood and can't stop talking about it to others.

So it's a start. We have a long way to go. And I don't know how it's going to end. But I do know I am working hard to set myself up for the best future *I* can have, and if he's part of it, great.

It has been a long time since I updated this thread. I've been swamped with the new house renovations, along with going to IC, group therapy, and S-Anon weekly as much as I can.

I can report my healing and recovery is going well and I am progressing. I still have a lot of that "the more I know, the more I learn I don't know" going on but it's still forward progress. It makes me hopefully and at time, actually happy.

SAWH is making progress also. He goes to IC and SA weekly, and I heard something about a group therapy maybe in the near future. I have noticed small and steady changes in him, all for the better. Although I do still monitor his computer activity, I've dropped most of my other spy efforts because I don't feel I need to use them anymore.

We have not progressed enough in our IC to pursue MC yet, but our communication has greatly improved. We spend a lot of time together as a family, and we plan couple time as well. I still think it will be the standard 2-5 year wait before we really know how it will all pan out in the end, but the point is we are fixing ourselves so we can have the best chance at R, and be in the best shape to parent our children.

I really could not ask for much more given my sitch and being only 9 months out. I am very lucky indeed.

But maybe not as lucky as SAWH!

Good to hear from you.

Hope you continue to heal!

Glad to hear things are going well...congrats on the new house too!

Quick update. We will be moving into our new house in a week. So of course I've been swamped.

I am progressing in my therapy. I'm at the stage where it gets worse before it gets better. It is ROUGH. It's hard on my kids, on my SAWH, on me. But I am focused on the light at the end of the tunnel. I *have* to heal from this, no matter what the outcome, and there will be pain to endure before I can heal and get better. I am doing my best to set myself up for success for my future.

We had an interesting series of events happen. SAWH was assigned to do training in a city we used to live in, where I believe the escalating of acting out and infidelity started. There really wasn't an option for him not to go. And I tried to be okay with it, but then I decided to put my foot down and tell him he couldn't go and deal with the consequences. So I had my speech ready...and then he said he wanted the whole family to go. Take the kids out of school, stay at the hotel with him, we'd make a vacation out of it. It was a brilliant solution, and we had an awesome time. While I still don't 100% trust my husband alone in that city, or any other city for that matter LOL, I was able to establish more new, positive memories with that city for me and my family.

He's brought up joining a church when we get settled. We've never gone to church as a couple or a family, except to tag along with other family members when visiting. I think he recognizes the spiritual void in his life and our lives, and he wants to correct that. I'm taking it as a positive step.

He was not so thrilled about me telling him I will need to update the post nup to reflect our home purchase and get it finalized. I don't anticipate he will thwart that effort, but he's not going to go out of his way to support or expedite it. He wants to believe he is done with acting out and infidelity and it will never be an issue again, and dealing with the post nup messes up that fantasy. But he will suck it up and get over it, LOL.

It's not perfect by far. Like I said it is rough for me, and as a result everyone else indirectly right now. But I'm facing my issues and going to survive and thrive regardless of whatever outcome happens. I am determined that failure is not an option in that area.

Congratulations on the new house, and good for you on the progress with your IC and M! Hope it all goes well and steady! (((hathnofury)))

It's been a while. I've just been swamped with the moving/new house, you know how that can consume your life.

SAWH and I had a major setback yesterday. Basically, he confessed he has been struggling with sexual sobriety all along, that he has never been able to go more than two weeks without masturbating. That he's stayed away from porn, strippers, hookers etc but just can't seem to otherwise last more than two weeks basically since DDay. Worse, he had been lying to his 12 step group about it, because they are largely old-timers with much longer sobriety - he didn't want to be *that* guy that couldn't last two weeks.

He did say he was being honest with his new therapist this whole calendar year he's been seeing him. And when we spontaneously fooled around last weekend (no sex, just mutual stimulation to orgasm), he immediately called his sponsor the next day and came clean about everything with him. That he led me to believe he was sober so he wouldn't disappoint me, and thus led me to believe it was ok to start resuming things slowly. And that he clearly wasn't ready. And he was embarrassed, trapped, didn't know how to dig himself out of the hole he had dug for himself with the group and me.

It sounds like his sponsor said all the right things. That what he was doing was textbook, it's all part of the cycle and coming to terms with the addiction. That he had been motivated in his recovery by trying to keep me from leaving, instead of doing it for himself. That he needed to rip off the bandaid and tell the truth to me and the group, and it would be alright. The important thing was he was being honest now, and that is forward progress on accepting the first step.

He has a meeting with his CSAT tonight. They will discuss it further then.

He was genuinely remorseful and very afraid I was going to leave him. Admitted that when we do get to the formal disclosure process (which is when the SA fully discloses all infidelity and SA activities in a controlled setting, with a therapist to support him as well as a therapist to support me) that there would be more he hadn't told me, that it had gone on longer than he had said (duh!). Admitted he didn't really grasp the whole recovery/addiction concept before, and now it was becoming clear to him what it really was and what all it really entailed, how it wasn't linear and how long it really was. How we watched me do all the things I do (IC, group therapy, S-Anon, etc) and was making progress and how he felt he couldn't tell me he badly he was failing, that he didn't want to disappoint me after all I had been doing.

So what did I do? I was quiet, I let him talk. When he was done, I did say of course I am disappointed. More in that he could not be honest with me (and his group and himself) than the actual failure of sobriety. That I would need time to process all this. That a lot of the trust he had rebuilt with me was now gone.

Then I chose to read him something I wrote here six months ago. It was in response to a SA soliciting input from others regarding him and his wife. He was limited in his therapy options due to his location, and felt like he was doing all he could but nothing he did seemed to make things with his wife better, that he seemed to keep making her even more unhappy. A copy of my response is here, page 10 of my story second post:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=421531&AP=181&HL=32550

And I told him I wrote it six months ago and I still felt the same way.

I told him he had to get better for himself, not for me or for us. That until he can do it for himself, "we" in the fullest sense cannot really be possible. That he deserved to get better, that he needed to get better because he deserved an authentic life and he deserved to be happy. That it touched all aspects of his life more than he realized, and he needed to change it for himself.

I also told him whatever he does has no bearing on what I do for me. I will do all my recovery work regardless of what he does, because I need it for me. That he needed to let that go as having any impact on what he does. He had a lifetime to make things up to me, regardless of our status, but he needed to focus on getting himself better for himself. So being the husband and father he wanted to be could be possible.

I reminded him I had promised (more to myself than to him) that I would wait a year before making any major decisions about us. I still had a month left, and I intended to honor that promise. And that I would always love him and support his recovery regardless of our status. That there were three kids upstairs that needed him to be healthy more than I did, and I would always do what's best for them.

He said he didn't deserve me. I told him he was right. But I'm still here. For now. That while I wasn't handing down "consequences" like making him spend the night elsewhere, leaving, etc there were consequences for his actions. My trust in him is severely beaten. The potential path to our M healing had been compromised. That he clearly needed to step things up in his recovery, start going to group therapy, etc to prove he was serious about getting better. He was going to have to fight an uphill battle.

So I'm still processing this obviously. The other shoe has finally dropped, I guess. I'm not surprised by any of this, it's not like I haven't been reading this in books and in posts here all along that this would happen. It's more like I've been waiting for WHEN it would happen. And while it sucks, so far it has not been the all-ending, massive trauma response thing I thought it would be. Maybe I just need more time for it to kick in, IDK.

But regardless of what happens, I know it will be ok. I will be ok. How strange that I can find peace in that?

I actually wrote this yesterday, and have since had more happen. But I will post this now to keep the thread current and update the rest at a later date.

So his CSAT said SAWH will join a group therapy, but not until after he takes a full sexual history with SAWH. Which is pretty much what he's been working on this whole time, in addition to FOO and childhood experiences. I think he wants to make sure he is in a good fit with a group, and that SAWH is serious, I guess.

He said in taking the full history, SAWH is also doing the preliminary work for formal disclosure with me. Said he would step up that effort, faster than he would ideally like for him but he knows how important that is for my healing. He also stressed the center is pro-relationship and there are resources for MC and support there when we are ready for that step.

I have not brought up talking to his CSAT yet. This one, that he has been seeing since the beginning of the year, actually sat in on my group therapy last fall as part of his cross-training for that course for couples in very early therapy for SA I took. So I am comfortable with him, and wouldn't have issues discussing things with him when the time comes. I just figured he needed more time to assess SAWH. But I have an appointment with my CSAT today, and will discuss it with her then so I get an idea how I should proceed.

I asked SAWH if he felt better after talking to his CSAT. He said no. He felt incredibly ashamed. He still feared I would leave, because my year deadline was approaching. He asked how could I possibly trust him. ( And I confirmed, I can't.) He said he wasted so much time, not doing everything he was supposed to do, and everything I asked him to do. (And I confirmed, yes, you did not. And that was very disappointing.) That he was scared, humiliated, full of remorse, etc. And I told him everything he was feeling was normal, all part of the addiction process. That what was important was what does he do NOW.

Frankly, I'm tired. I understand this is a HUGE step for him. But I'm just over it and need some time to process and reflect on how this is all going to affect me, and what I'm going to do. My life is a bit overwhelming ATM with trying to get the new house ready and get the old house off my plate, end of school for the kids, etc.

I have been really sad lately. Couldn't put my finger on exactly why, of course we know in general why. Then I remembered something and did searching...

He's been doing this for more than 10 years. I have proof. Lots and lots of proof.

This is a tremendous blow. I don't know if I can recover from this.

I don't know how to proceed.

Any suggestions, 2x4s, etc welcome.

I have been really sad lately. Couldn't put my finger on exactly why, of course we know in general why. Then I remembered something and did searching...

He's been doing this for more than 10 years. I have proof. Lots and lots of proof.

This is a tremendous blow. I don't know if I can recover from this.

I don't know how to proceed.

Any suggestions, 2x4s, etc welcome.

(((((hathnofury)))))

No 2x4s here. Every new revelation just hurts so much and damages our ability to trust so much. You've been through so much already, and I understand how you're feeling right now so well.

Since your WH hasn't done his full disclosure yet, it's quite likely (I hope) that you would have discovered this at that time anyway. Would that have made a difference--if he had told you about it rather than you discovering it? if not, then maybe this really is the dealbreaking point. If so, then maybe you need to take some time to process this new information. In fact, I think you probably need to take some time regardless.

You've come so far, hathnofury. Your story has been inspiring to a lot of us for the way you've taken control of your life and taken such positive steps for yourself. You are so strong. I know we get to a point where we feel like we've hit the end of our strength, but I sense that your strength has only grown monumentally through all this, as has your ability to make healthy decisions for yourself.

So, while I want to send you huge hugs of support and strength, I also want to tell you that you are definitely capable of handling this and coming out of it whole and healthy, whatever path you choose.

Hang with us and keep posting until you figure things out. We're all here for you and mourning this new revelation with you.