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Just Found Out :
My neverending story...

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 hathnofury (original poster member #32550) posted at 7:04 PM on Monday, December 3rd, 2012

K9, You are right on all counts.

No idea what poly guy's opinion is on that. My therapist said it could be. I am not an addict, so I apply logic and ethics to my thoughts and actions, so I agree with your line of thinking. I am not an IC trained on how to open that can of worms.

[This message edited by hathnofury at 1:06 PM, December 3rd (Monday)]

BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

posts: 1503   ·   registered: Jun. 21st, 2011
id 6126152
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k9lover1 ( member #8531) posted at 9:32 PM on Monday, December 3rd, 2012

What a high wire act - how do you balance anger at what he has done against compassion for the "addict" side.

D-Day was 10/9/05
He promised NC. He lied. After 4 chances, I kicked him out 1/05/06.
Since then I have survived cancer surgery and a heart attack.
Now he's sorry, but it's too late. He died an alcoholic on 9/5/17.

posts: 8165   ·   registered: Oct. 17th, 2005   ·   location: Wisconsin
id 6126371
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 hathnofury (original poster member #32550) posted at 12:56 AM on Tuesday, December 4th, 2012

Good qquestion K9. I was angry a really long time in the beginning. It helped drive me to do what I needed to do at that time. But after a year of anger, it was too exhausting. I had to let it go. For my own health and sanity.

Now I am just sad. Probably still reeling from ths shock. I feel a tremendous sense of loss. All very valid feelings I need to have because I am human. But this too shall pass.

I don't think anyone that is familiar with my story has any doubt I will rise again. I won't let this destroy me. Somebody up there has plans for me.

BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

posts: 1503   ·   registered: Jun. 21st, 2011
id 6126615
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 hathnofury (original poster member #32550) posted at 3:37 PM on Tuesday, December 4th, 2012

I wanted to give some context to what I am experiencing and feeling.

Until the poly, it was not as if we slept in separate rooms, never touched each other, never talked about anything and could barely remain civil. His reaction to the poly would have been more understandable if it was that way. Still wouldn't justify it, and only amplifies how very just plain wrong his reaction was.

He does have a history of behaving like this when he is "busted" at pretty much anything, infidelity-related or not, with anyone. Immediately the walls go up, he's defensive, he's justifying, completely inconsiderate of anyone else affected in the matter. This behavior has not changed since recovery. So clearly he is busted at something now.

What had changed in his behavior since recovery is that afterwards, after he has time to process, he realizes the error of his ways. He tries to take responsibility for it, apologizes, tries to make amends. He does show affection while doing it, but feels he needs to ask permission for any sort of touch beforehand. He still is not good at asking what he should do to make amends, or showing his real emotions, bearing his soul, being empathetic outside of apology in general, but he does recognize he was wrong and tries to fix it. But it's kind of like when you are teaching this lesson to your kids, just because you accept responsibility and say sorry, that isn't necessarily enough. And you may not be able to fix it. Anybody say FOO issues? So despite progress, still very broken. I just never realized to what extent. Because he wasn't even capable of how far he had come when it mattered most.

The next night after the poly results, after the kids went to bed, he did try to further apologize for what had happened, reaffirm his commitment to me and recovery, etc. In his head, we both knew the results were going to be bad, and we had already prepared for it. In this head, his mission was to find out what he had to do next to fix it ASAP and get out of there, pretty much at the expense of everything else. He realized afterward it was wrong, but I don't think he understands HOW wrong. It's difficult for him to shift gears when it is not his idea, moreso under duress. So he went right back to the "busted" response I outlined above. Amplified in being called out on it by all of us. (Boo-hoo). He knows all that was wrong too, but he doesn't see HOW wrong.

It reminds me of when little kids get busted for doing something and get caught. You ask them what the rules are and why they weren't supposed to do that, they parrot exactly what you told them the last time they did it. You dish out the consequence. Then later you are having this same discussion again because either they don't really get it, haven't developed the full memory loop for it, or they don't care. Most little kids do this a while, but they grow out of it. Red red red flags.

It troubles him when I tell him it is addict and/or mentally ill behavior. He still really doesn't understand "mostly" doesn't really count in terms of honesty, and he doesn't really understand the ramifications of that either. He did not confront me about taking off the rings, and when I asked him why, he said because he did not want to believe I gave up on him and us. So there is still a lot of denial furthering the difficulty with honesty. And obviously not putting anyone else's needs before his own. I feel like I am filling out a checklist for some sort of personality disorder or mental illness.

We did not go to church together that Sunday, my younger kids were over-scheduled and needed a break. But I had taken my oldest because she is in the choir and sang at the service. And the sermon that day was about hope, and what to do when it seemed all hope is gone and the bottom had fell out (appropriate, no?). When I told SAWH later that night this, and started to cry, he immediately ran to hold me. And then said it was not my fault. WTF? Why is guilt the first thing he thinks I feel, that isn't even remotely appropriate. So he's for lack of a better word socially retarded, lacks true empathy, and is projecting his shit on me.

And this is 18 months after being told he was broken and needed to fix himself, or there cannot be a M. Nearly a year of intensive therapy. This is how far he's gotten.

I know this is ranty, and it usually is not productive to put focus on the WS when this kind of stuff happens. But his reality impacts my life, the life of my kids, and the decisions I must make for myself. I write this out so I can look back in the future if I have doubts, and remember where I have been. Remember what I need to do that is best for me.

Someone had told me regardless of whatever the results of the poly were, I would have answers. Holy cow, I can't believe the magnitude of the truth of that statement. Not about results themselves, but about everything else.

So what I am doing for myself? Today is the first day in a long time I don't *have* to be somewhere. I could go to my 12 step, but I just had a gut wrenching group therapy last night so I don't need a repeat of that. I am staying home, and I am going to make sure I get enough food, water, and rest. Do something that makes me happy.

And take it one day at a time.

BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

posts: 1503   ·   registered: Jun. 21st, 2011
id 6127293
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Missymomma ( member #36988) posted at 4:24 PM on Tuesday, December 4th, 2012

Hath reading about your SAWH I just wonder if he has been diagnosed with anything besides SA? He sounds narcissistic but also that he could have a little Aspergers or something else. My SAWH has some of these behaviors but not nearly as cut off in his reactions. Something just seems really off, I know you mentioned mentally ill and I might have missed where you said something specific.

DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

posts: 1084   ·   registered: Sep. 30th, 2012   ·   location: Texas
id 6127375
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 hathnofury (original poster member #32550) posted at 5:30 PM on Tuesday, December 4th, 2012

In my mind there is no doubt there is some sort of mental disorder. And I think his IC thinks so too. The problem is he is a super genius, so he can hide it very well. He can see through most tests, knows what people are looking for, etc. So diagnosing it will be very difficult. But not impossible. From what I understand many personality disorders do not really become overly apparent until middle age and after crisis, because it can be easy to overlook or explain away. Then the bomb goes off.

My middle daughter is VERY much like him. And I don't think it is entirely modeling his behavior. I think it is largely genetic. I have had her see two child psychologists and two social workers and they say a lot of it comes with being very gifted intellectually. While those parts of the brain develop faster than normal, other parts develop slower or not at all. I did not teach my kids to read, yet she was reading 3rd grade level books at AGE 3. Yet she couldn't potty train until age 4, and she still has trouble with empathy, with determining right from wrong, with impulse control, with doing things that she knows will have dire consequences because she literally cannot help it. Imagine Sheldon from Big Bang Theory as a six year old girl, that is my daughter.

I see how much her behavior is like his, and how much he must have been like her as a child. And where his parents failed him to supplement and correct his deficiencies. She needs so much guidance now to learn what comes naturally to many people. It can be learned, but it is much harder for her. It takes a lot of time, effort, patience, and love. But it does work, albeit slowly and many days I want to hit something with a shovel. So I know it can be done. But for him, it's not my place to do it, and I don't want to. He needs serious professional help, and he needs to want that help and do the work. With or without me.

BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

posts: 1503   ·   registered: Jun. 21st, 2011
id 6127472
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Missymomma ( member #36988) posted at 5:41 PM on Tuesday, December 4th, 2012

Well, that sounds a lot like Aspergers. We have a friend that has it and is highly successful. He isn't an addict but has a very hard time understanding emotions at all. Also had the physical motor skill issues growing up. It just sounds very hard to deal with, especially combined with addiction.

DDay - 6/15/11
R started - 7/1/11
False Discl- 9/27/12
Real Discl - 2/12/13
Poly - 3/1/13 Pass!
Me - BS (46)
WH - 52 (SA, NA, WA)
Kids: 2 littles and 1 grown
The road to recovery is long and hard. Some days I am up for it and others not!

posts: 1084   ·   registered: Sep. 30th, 2012   ·   location: Texas
id 6127489
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debbysbaby ( member #32962) posted at 6:57 PM on Tuesday, December 4th, 2012

You have been through so much. Many hugs to you. I admire you for how hard you've worked to try to fix this if possible.

I have to ask you this, though. At what point do you decide it's just been to damaged? I mean, if you have a beautiful vase and It gets knocked on the floor and shattered... Do you try to fix it? Or do you finally just throw it away. If you fix it, you'll have to look at the broken places for as long as you live.

I think sometimes relationships are like that. It's just too painful to look at all the broken places.

Whatever you decide, I hope you will decide it looking forward At the future you desire for yourself and not backwards at something youve struggled so hard to fix and don't feel like you can give up on.

-betrayed almost my whole almost 15 yr marriage
-divorced since 2004

posts: 1025   ·   registered: Aug. 1st, 2011
id 6127642
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CheaterMagnet ( member #33581) posted at 7:13 PM on Tuesday, December 4th, 2012

I have a son and daughter in law with Asperger's and I agree that it does sound very much like it.

If Happy Ever After did exist, I would still be holding you like this.
All those fairly tales are full of shit.
One more fucking love song I'll be sick. ~ Maroon 5

posts: 1968   ·   registered: Oct. 11th, 2011
id 6127678
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 hathnofury (original poster member #32550) posted at 7:40 PM on Tuesday, December 4th, 2012

Debbysbaby, what a beautiful analogy. It is spot on.

It's sad. You know after you have been on SI a while, everyone kind of sees things the same way. You want to tell a newbie that is dating a cheater, RUN. You want to tell a newlywed with no kids to separate (not necessarily divorce), and see if the WS does the work on themselves while you heal and and keep your focus on you - that if WS does the work and you still want him/her after that, THEN you can consider R.

But when kids are involved, it is infinitely more complicated. Nobody wants to be the one that just stayed in the marriage for the kids, because nobody wants to be the one that raised their kids in a home without real love and respect between the parents. But for many of us, we do want to be able to tell our kids that we did everything in our power to save the marriage and the family unit. So we have to try, even though if there were no kids involved we wouldn't have.

I know I've tried. I know I have my efforts have been herculian on that front. Probably more than most people would, and probably more than I should have. What can I say, I am a force of nature when it comes to my kids. And that I can't say that SAWH necessarily would or could have done the same for me, given his issues. But I can say, without hesitation, that I did everything I could to not end up in a divorce. I can look my kids in the eye and say that, and know that I did the right thing for me and them. I don't have any regrets about my journey in this.

Extraction from a relationship with a WS is always a difficult and delicate matter. Infinitely more complicated when kids are involved, when addiction is involved, when mental illness/disorder/deficiency is involved. I have to move slowly, carefully, and put as much effort as I can to make this as painless as possible under the circumstances for me and my kids. And I don't want there to be animosity between SAWH and I. I want us to be able to still co-parent as a team without (much) conflict. I want to be able to be supportive of him fixing himself so he can be the best dad he can be for my kids - but from a safe, detached, loving distance.

And I know that may not be possible. And that makes me very sad.

[This message edited by hathnofury at 1:57 PM, December 4th (Tuesday)]

BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

posts: 1503   ·   registered: Jun. 21st, 2011
id 6127725
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RyeBread ( member #37437) posted at 9:30 PM on Tuesday, December 4th, 2012

Extraction from a relationship with a WS is always a difficult and delicate matter. Infinitely more complicated when kids are involved, when addiction is involved, when mental illness/disorder/deficiency is involved. I have to move slowly, carefully, and put as much effort as I can to make this as painless as possible under the circumstances for me and my kids. And I don't want there to be animosity between SAWH and I. I want us to be able to still co-parent as a team without (much) conflict. I want to be able to be supportive of him fixing himself so he can be the best dad he can be for my kids - but from a safe, detached, loving distance.

And I know that may not be possible. And that makes me very sad.

Hope this isn't a T/J but ....

I've been reading this thread and what you just posted really touched home with me. I am working on trying to figure out what I want to do in my situation and I've had those exact thoughts weigh on me as well. I'm glad (or sad depending on how you look at it) to know that I'm not alone in this.

Thoughts and prayers go out to you and what you are going through.

Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

posts: 1058   ·   registered: Nov. 10th, 2012   ·   location: Midwest
id 6127882
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DrivingPast ( member #32984) posted at 10:38 PM on Wednesday, December 5th, 2012

Hath,

Im so so sorry.

disappointments are God's way of saying "I have something better."

I cried the whole time I read your post, and then read it over again. I can imagine how devastated you feel, by both the failing and the reaction.

A lot of what you have written reminds me of my h. The rationalization, and the pure denial (like that he never told a lie! gosh.). My h is JUST like that. And many times I have cried just realizing that I will probably never get true answers and he probably isnt even capable of giving them. If I ever get a poly I can see being in this same position. Its scary.

I dont know what comforting things I could say but you are in my thoughts and I just wish I could give you a hug irl.

BW
married more than 10 yrs to a possible SA
D-Day May 5 2011
"Because one knows people best through their fears - the ones they overcome and the ones they are overcome by."

posts: 1304   ·   registered: Aug. 2nd, 2011
id 6129348
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