SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Yesterday I read parts of the Claudia Black book again. The part that resonated with me then was where it explains how the chemical process in the brain works for addiction, how the "drug" becomes less effective and you need a higher "dose" to keep getting results.

That scared me in two ways:

If he is going to continue the behavior, it is going to be further escalated and underground. That means random anonymous encounters (higher risk and no money to trace), by means I can't track (3rd party app on smart phone for example, and/or tracphone used only at work, etc).

Second is how that chemical process is affecting his thinking. It works the same way with the reasoning and lying to do the "drug". So he does not see how bad the "drug" is, his brain is blown out and it just doesn't appear as bad to him as a person who is not compromised. So it will be a LOT harder to get him to see reason concerning his addiction, to have his breakthroughs, etc.

I'm also seeing that I have some legwork to do before the post nup. I don't think I can actually put in a infidelity clause that would work, I may have to abandon that. I need to fast track diverting funds to pay debts in my name and in the account in my name now. I may need them sooner than later if he flips out on me. I may have to settle for less money to get him to sign something quickly, just so I can have full custody of the kids. I can't depend on his income anyway, because again if he flips out and falls down the rabbit hole, there may be no income to rely on.

Ugh. Reality bites.

As an added twist to the story, my MIL is coming to visit this weekend. In light of recent events, I am wondering if I need to tell her. Even though I told WH I would only tell her as a condition of not meeting my requirements, which technically he has.

But she might give him money that I wouldn't know about, that he could use for nefarious means. Or might tell her not to give me any money from now on, in light of what I did with the cash she gave me last time (when he finally asked about it, I told him I used it to pay for survellance on him, which is true. He assumes it was for a PI), and god only knows what reason why he would tell her not to do that. And also as a mother, I feel guilt because if MY child was an addict of any kind, I would want to know. The only reason I haven't told my parents thus far is they would make the situation much worse no matter what happened.

I am very very conflicted about this. I have a lot to risk if I tell her now since all my ducks are not in a row yet. But there is also some risk if I don't tell her now.

[This message edited by hathnofury at 4:48 PM, August 30th (Tuesday)]

Still reading - keep posting. I think it is very smart of you to do all of the reading you can to understand sexual addiction.

Thanks Somer. I'm making it happen.

I have decided I need to take the course, even if it means taking it alone. It doesn't start until mid month, so WH has time to change his mind about it if he wants. It's unfortunate, he is getting super slammed at work, his mom is coming to visit this weekend, and the kids start school next week so I will not have much opportunity to get him to see he needs to take it as well.

The first 6 weeks of the course is dedicated to education about SA. I'm going to be immersed in that, and surrounded by other spouses/partners in the same position. It will be a good thing for me.

I'm doing the legwork for the post nup now. It is going to take some time to get all the documentation for it. WH has offered to help, and he understands why it is important to me, but I can tell he is sad and disappointed that I have to do it.

I had mentioned to him yesterday he would need to buy more printer ink, I was going to use it all up printing the documentation for the post nup. He was supposed to go to a baseball game with his coworkers that day, something that he had cleared with me before we had the meeting with the CSAT. I had told him I was still ok with him going as long as he was pinging me his GPS and sending pix of where he was, etc. I don't know if it was coincidence, but he decided not to go after all and came home at a reasonable hour, said he didn't feel well. I'm not sure if that was the case, if he was trying to make me feel better by staying home, or trying to check up on my doing the docs for the post nup, or what. He's clearly exhausted, in part by the workload but I think also by the recent course of events. I'm worried about him.

FML.

I was going through his desk while I was printing out docs for the post nup. I find the box with the penis pump (he told me about that, remember) and inside were his last two orders of boner pills.

One was dated March, was a 30 day supply, and was empty.

One was from June, dated two days before Dday, also a 30 day supply. So between March and June he used 30 pills. One every three days. But that's not the worst part.

This packet from June? There are ten pills left. He has used 20 pills SINCE I CONFRONTED HIM ON D DAY. Not even three months ago.

I want to die.

Hacked into his account at the source of boner pills. He has spent $2000 with them in total, half of that in the past year. And I can't be sure that they are his only supplier.

Make it stop.

Honey,

I am so sorry this is happening to you. I know how this feels worse than D day itself.

My suggestion would be to call his CSAT and get an appointment with him alone. You need some information and his insight into your WH's problem.

It sounds to me as if the CSAT attempted to force an intervention when you were present at the meeting and I imagine he did this because he is not buying what your WH is telling him.

Here are some of the things I think would be helpful to discuss with his CSAT:

1. His lay-offs. Unless you are 100% certain these were bona-fide layoffs, and didn't get that information directly from him, the lay-offs could be a sign that he has been caught pursuing his addiction at work, surfing porn, unexplained absences, etc.

2. His use of marital money on his addiction and the extent of what he has spent (to the best of your knowledge). Though you seemed to kind of excuse this earlier, it is a huge problem in some many respects.

3. The fact that he deleted his email accts and porn accounts but kept his penis pump and boner pills and that some pills are missing after D day.

4. That he chose to relay to you a very benigh interpretation of what the CSAT had to say about his "SA. Is he in denial or does he want to keep his options open so he can continue with his SA? I think you need to get to the bottom of this. He is also trying to negotiate the terms of his treatment and not doing what the CSAT advises.

5. He told you in advance that his new job would have crazy hours. It might have, but he may have told you this in order to have extra time in which to pursue his addiction without discovery.

6. Ask his CSAT what he feels is driving your WH's SA. Is it past abuse, narcissism, etc.?

7. Ask his CSAT where to go from here in terms of treatment recommendations.

The sad truth is that right now, what you are finding is that you cannot believe what your WH is telling you. If your goal is to get him to accept the fact that he really needs help and that he needs to come completely clean with you and the CSAT and that he needs to work a recovery program in complete earnest, then I would partner with the CSAT and see what can be done to get him there.

It is impossible for you to keep him under 100% surveillance for the rest of your life. If he isn't working toward recovery (in earnest), this is exactly what you'll try to do and he will just figure out ways to go more underground with the addiction so you don't catch him.

And please remember that whatever you end up deciding to do with respect to your marriage, you will be supported and respected in this forum. I did end my marriage, but my circumstances were different from yours in that I did not have children to consider and I was the primary income earner.

What I'm trying to say is that ending the marriage is not the "only" solution because that is what I did. Had my circumstances been different, I may have tried to R, but I would have fully involved a CSAT had that been my choice.

I'm three and a half years out and I remember all too well, the shock, the horror and the incredible pain my ex's SA caused me and him, in terms of consequences.

Good luck and big hugs.

[This message edited by somer222 at 7:05 AM, September 1st (Thursday)]

Thanks somer. I had already planned to call the CSAT today about the pills, but your list gives me reason to believe, yeah, I should have another meeting with him one on one.

As for the layoffs, he was in a group of people laid off each time. However, that doesn't mean someone in HR wasn't aware of something fishy and put him at the top of the list when it came time to trim the fat.

And I'm not excusing his spending, I'm just saying it has not been hard to hide them from me in the past. He hasn't had to be that devious, although it is certainly possible he was and there is more I have not found. I see that now. I'm taking measures so it will not be that easy in the future. There is too much at stake.

As for why, the CSAT indicated he had unusually high marks in the areas of control and compartmentalization. So he really does think he can control it all, and he can keep it all separate from his "real" life and not appear to let it affect him. So in addition to whatever made him become this way, it's going to be very hard to convince him he's got a problem he can't solve on his own, and it will be difficult to tell when he strays from signals that would cue my gut.

The reality is I have to prepare for the worse even if I am hoping for the best. I told him this morning I am moving all our emergency savings to my account, that I cannot trust him with our emergency savings any more. And didn't give any more info than that. He was taken aback, but had no problem with it. He really didn't have an opportunity to ask about it further, and won't with his mom coming. I was conflicted about just doing it anyway without consulting him, but I've decided I have no reason not to be up front about it. If he blocks the transfer, then I know EXACTLY where I stand and I'm throwing him out. I'm hoping he sees this as another serious consequence and that he considers therapy options more seriously.

[This message edited by hathnofury at 7:34 AM, September 1st (Thursday)]

Oh no.

Long shot, but are you sure they are dated this year? I have freaked out about something before and realized it was that date last year not this.

I just dont even know what to say. That could be really devastating if it means what it appears to mean.

Hard as this would be, I might suggest leaving the pills there and checking back in a week or so to see if more are missing.

ETA, somer those are excellent suggestions, Im going to note those down to use myself.

And also, hhf, have you been able to come up with a rough account of the money that he used during those times. Not the number he gave you, but your own calculations. It may include benign spending money but at least you can get a ballpark figure of how much is unaccounted for.

[This message edited by DrivingPast at 7:49 AM, September 1st (Thursday)]

I did double check the date. And remember I hacked into the place he ordered them from. I have dates of his orders going back to 2007. This would be prior to the birth of our last child. And again just one place. There may be others.

Perhaps you are right. I can take a picture with a time date stamp today, put them back, and see what happens. I was thinking taking them would spur him to order more, but yeah I see your point.

And just so it is clear, these were not really hidden. They were in a box in his desk. I had told him I would periodically check his desk, I just never checked that box before. He had told me I would find the pump if I looked there. So I'm sure he thinks I've already found the pills and knows he's taking them, I guess. I'm not saying this to excuse the behavior, I'm just saying he's not going to great lengths to hide it. I can only imagine what he may be going to great lengths to hide.

As for how to estimate what he spent...now that I know what days/months he bought them, how much such things cost, and whether a visa/mc/amex was used, and I'm printing out all our credit card statements for the post nup anyway...well you get the idea. Soon I will know if he was using our cards or if there are secret cards. I have a recent credit report so it is unlikely he opened new credit cards and more likely he just pulled cash and used prepaid ones, but who knows.

I am super pissed this is going down when MIL is coming. This greatly hampers my ability to check this all out.

I just signed up for a babysitting service so I can do the course and all the things I need to do, and they require a background check on both of us. I am going to ask if I can have a copy. I doubt I will find any new info on there, but it would be stupid not to check.

I have called the CSAT and left a message about the pills, left my number if he wants to discuss it further. I'm not going to try to set up an appointment with him until after the holiday weekend and I have the sitter service engaged and ready to go.

[This message edited by hathnofury at 9:12 AM, September 1st (Thursday)]

I missed the CSAT's call back. He thanked me for the info, said it was very illuminating. He recommended I go ahead and take the course without WH, that I have a long road ahead of me. That he would continue to see WH in IC since he's not ready.

So I'm 50% done with the support documentation I need to provide to the lawyer to do the post nup. I found all the charges for the pills on his credit cards, they were on different cards that had been maxed out for a while so it was easy to sneak a new charge on it since I wasn't looking at those bills closely. He did a different one each time, to further make it less noticeable. But now there is clear cut evidence he is ordering at least what I know about.

I won't get to make much further progress on anything this weekend, MIL will be here in an hour or so and is staying through Tuesday.

Thanks everyone for sticking with my sordid soap opera, and offering support via posts and PMs. I will continue to update.

inside were his last two orders of boner pills.One was dated March, was a 30 day supply, and was empty. One was from June, dated two days before Dday, also a 30 day supply. So between March and June he used 30 pills. One every three days.

One pill every 3 days.Does he use them "just" for sex ... or masturbation also? Did he confess to sleeping with prostitutes once every 3 days?

Well, I haven't discuss that with him because I didn't know he was taking that many pills. I am pretty sure if I ask him, he will say he's using them for masturbation, since he's already confessed he likes to take an hour to do so. But it really doesn't matter what he says it is for, I can't trust ANYTHING he says anymore. I have to assume the worst. There is a pill cutter in his desk, so he may be taking a half pill every day. And even if he's only using them for masterbating...well, that's a problem in and of itself, which only is further proof he's an SA. Because I GUARANTEE you he has not used ANY of them with me. On purpose anyway.

But no, he has not confessed to hookers every three days. So far there is not evidence to support he paid for hookers every three days, YET. And anonymous encounters are free, if he's doing that.

It will be difficult to tell if he continues to use them. He will know I've been in the box, if that matters, and also the CSAT told him to go cold turkey on everything for 90 days. But his urologist requires a certain number of, um, "system cleanouts" to verify if the vasectomy worked.

Ugh.

[This message edited by hathnofury at 11:11 AM, September 2nd (Friday)]

I am so amazed at the way you are handling the horrible situation that your husband has given you. I wish I had found SI in the beginning....My situation is different but I did everything wrong!! I am still trying to get information..I hate TT. You go girl!!

Gah. I've had a long night.

Basically, I couldn't wait to confront about the pills. I feel very strongly about the health risks, I had to put a stop to it. So I had a long talk about stuff in general, and gave him every opportunity to share the info first.

Turns out I was reading the scripts/packaging wrong, it was only 10, not 30 pills every three months. This place dispenses all pills in their own 30pk blister packaging, no matter how many pills there are, so it will fit in a FedEx envelope. The other 20 slots were sealed and empty. WH explained it to me, and I verified it. So it is one pill every ten days or so, not every three days. And the ten pills that came in June were never used.

So assuming there is not another source of the pills, I felt better it was not as bad as I thought. However, I made sure I made my feelings clear about the pills in general, that healthy men in their 30s do not take those pills without a blessing of their actual doctor and their wife/partner. I expressed my disappointment in him not coming totally clean on the quantity and the $ spent during disclosure. I asked him if he knew how much he spent in total, and he only guessed what he had spent in the past year, and I called him on it. Told him I had proof, and I will find out if there are other sources and it will be game over if there are. Lies of omission are still lies.

In his TT addict-addled mind, the boner pills were not an infidelity expense, because he bought them intending to use them with me. But he wound up using them with me, for himself, and for use with his hookers. He said himself he should have seen it for what it was, confessed it during disclosure, and he could see now it was like ripping open a whole new DDay for me. Apologized profusely, etc. Typical WH stuff.

Anyway, this was all part of a larger general discussion about his denial of the very serious issues he had, whether he believed in SA or not. That he had been given this extremely generous gift of one year to prove himself and in two months, I trusted him less than before. And a very funny discussion (not at the time, just looking back now) about our differing feelings about 12 step programs which I will talk about in a future post.

Somewhat of a breakthrough, or at least a step or two closer in getting him to understand the gravity of the situation, the potentially seriously consequences of all his actions and choices. Basically as much as I loved him, I was not letting him take me down with him.

And that's when he conceded and said he'd go to the SA/SAS class with me. We discussed it, that it wasn't the most ideal solution but it was the very best solution we had right now. That we could get educated on his issues, get the separate group therapy we needed from it, get our action plans for each of us to endure this.

So that's where we are at now. I have not told his mother, who is still visiting. I'm still gathering the documentation for the post nup, and continuing combing through those for other clues.

I'm trying to remain hopeful and positive. But at least I know I am doing all I can even for worst case scenario.

[This message edited by hathnofury at 3:30 PM, September 3rd (Saturday)]

((((((hugs)))))) I can't believe how strong you are being. Please take time in between your surveillance for a massage,a facial or something else for you. And after the class is over, find an Sanon program for yourself. Please don't let the religious part of it put you off. The higher power part is amazingly broad. But the letting go and healing part works. 12 step programs are about YOU.

Sex addiction leaves many people in pieces. Your determination will enable you to see this through.

Wow! These boner pills are really expensive - aren't they? That's a lot of money PER PILL.

You stated:

Turns out I was reading the scripts/packaging wrong, it was only 10, not 30 pills every three months

Hacked into his account at the source of boner pills. He has spent $2000 with them in total, half of that in the past year