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I am confused are you implying she suggested living together? Please clarify..

The thing is, it's not *my* heart I was protecting, it's my kids' hearts.

I think protecting your kids is a wise and responsible boundary.

What I was suggesting is that you are protecting your heart by asking for exclusivity. Where she is protecting her heart by striving for immersion.

Neither is necessary bad nor does one need trump the other. My guess is that the relationship has reached a level that you are both now feeling vulnerable so you are striving to find some security "blankets".

You don't have to introduce her to your kids.

She doesn't have to date you exclusively.

IF you both are willing to just BE in the vulnerable spots.

That's not to suggest that the relationship will be stagnant...that it will always be this way. Ideally, it will change and grow. She may naturally stop seeing others (like I said, I *forced* myself to continue to date others) and you may find that you are ready (from a point of wisdom not pressure to achieve your own level of security in exchange) to include your children.

Do you enjoy being with her, OIAL? Can that just be enough for now and let the relationship just develop as it's going to develop?

ETA:

yes, I demand exclusivity.

Why exactly?

[This message edited by truthsetmefree at 9:26 AM, March 8th (Friday)]

I demand exclusivity because I don't like sharing the woman I'm making out with. It's a pretty big turn off to think she's making out with other guys, too. If that makes me insecure and jealous, so be it.

Thing is, immersion *is* the whole package. When you have immersion, you are sharing the person's whole life. Intimacy, exclusivity, it's *all* there. It's not just one stepping stone in a growing relationship. Immersion is pretty much the finish line.

[This message edited by OnceInALifetime at 9:31 AM, March 8th (Friday)]

Plains Girl, no, she didn't say anything about living together. But certainly being with each other more often than not (which, in my view, could naturally lead to living together in fairly short order).

I'm not judging you, OIAL. Nor am I suggesting one way is right and the other is wrong.

You just seem to like this woman. And I feel like I can relate to her position - short of her being just manipulator and a user as some posters perceive. (You have to decide that because you are the one that has actually interacted with her.)

Where you view exclusivity as an indicator of her seriousness, perhaps she views inclusion of your kids the same (and especially if she doesn't have kids to understand the dilemma that poses). I've used the term "immersion" for the sake of simplicity but is that what she is really asking for - a complete immersion? I haven't necessarily seen that from your posts.

I'm not suggesting you should introduce your kids.

But I am saying that I think it is fair for her to limit her level of commitment (per her terms) - which is the same right you are evoking.

The thing is, given time to evolve without directives, this issue may naturally resolve itself. I understand you want sex - intimacy can still be achieved without sex, sometimes even more so - but, honestly, short of her just being manipulative and cunning, I actually see her reservation/boundary as a good trait. Unless you think she's just running an agenda (which, in and of itself, should be enough to make you bail) this indicates that she's not one to just easily sleep around.

Guess I don't see a way this impasse could naturally resolve. She will not become exclusive until she becomes part of my kids lives.

I can't have that. And I'm not going to hang around and wait for her heart to change, all the while growing more invested and therefore more jealous that she's still seeing other men. The non-exclusivity has hit a breaking point for me.

I'm sorry, OIAL. I can understand the boundary...but at least you seem to have found clarity.

OIAL, I think you are making the right call.

I don’t think she is being willfully dishonest about wanting a relationship, but I do suspect she is a bit emotionally unavailable and a relationship would only be worthwhile for her if it is all on her terms. There would always be some way you weren’t measuring up that would allow her to keep you at a distance. You don’t need that.

I think truthsetmefree is bringing up some excellent points.

OIAL, I agree that you shouldn't bend on your choice to not introduce this woman to your kids so soon.

However, having said that, I can also sort of empathize with some of her concern. And again, this really only applies to a woman with good intentions... If she does turn out to be the manipulative woman others fear she is, then this point goes out the window.

Although, I've never actually dated a man with kids, I can tell you that my interest in a single dad, or my perception of his attractiveness, has changed based on my observations of him with his kids. Basically, if I think you're a good dad to your kids, your attractiveness goes up... If I think you're crappy with your kids, I'll lose all interest pretty quick.

If I were dating a guy and couldn't observe him with his kids for quite some time, and he was pushing to progress in the seriousness of the relationship, I might worry that I'm missing an important side of his personality - one that could change the way I feel about him.

Now again, I'm 100% on board with the idea of waiting to bring SO's into your kids lives... I truly am. So I guess if I found myself in this situation I'm not sure how I would resolve the impasse.

I'm still floundering.

Actually, you sound very confident and sure of yourself. You're protecting your children, and she's pushing you too fast while also... what... trying to make you jealous or to move faster by dating other guys...? That's what it seems like to me.

You're not a flounder. Tell her to go fishing somewhere else.

If she could not understand your not wanted to introduce the kids too soon, NEXT. When I was dating, I would have to tell some people that I didn't want to really meet their kids or get to know them. I didn't want to do events or outings with kids. The last thing a kid needs is to get attached to someone who may not be around for the long haul. Their lives have been turned upside down once already, they don't need to meet everyone you date. Now if it was 6 months and not 6 weeks, that might be different.

But 6 weeks and 9 dates? That's nuts. I think she used it as an excuse for an "out". She liked you but I don't think she was that in to you, otherwise she would have understood that. She would have emphasized with you about the kids and your need to be a parent and protect them.

It has nothing to do with your commitment to her. You were not still dating others, she was. Anything else is just speculation as to what was going on with her. I think she liked you, but if she wasn't able to meet you on this one, dude you dodged a bullet.

Please see this updated thread

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=489401&AP=81