SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm highly surprised at the strong support for the step parent does not discipline stance.....

I fully expect my SO to step up and establish a nurturing relationship and AUTHORITY with DS3. How the hell is it safe not to? Really? What happens when I step away to the bathroom while SO is watching DS ride his tricycle and DS knows he does not have to listen to SO? Is that safe? No!

Is it possible to establish such authority without being part of the discipline process? No! Anyone who cares for my child, grandparents, babysitters, teachers, etc is bloody well expected to follow a reasonable discipline plan. SO is no exception. He does not get a pass. If he is part of my life, he is part of DS's life, which inevitably means dealing with fits - standing strong beside me, being calm, steadfast and innovative in diffusing the situation in a way that is healthy for DS.

Further, I care what my SO has to say about how I discipline DS. I am dating him because he is smart and caring and intelligent. He has good ideas. Why would I not like to hear those ideas when it comes to my most important job in life?

BD - what does your W say when you offer ideas for diffusing tantrums? Are there any fun moments with DSD? Is there a pattern to when the little girl falls apart?

I think it's important in a nee marriage with blended family for the husband and wife to really talk about discipline and how punishments will be handled.

For the most part DH and I decide and deliver together. Of course if I'm not home he is free to discipline the kids when they do something wrong. They know by me just because he is a step parent he is still a parent and they have to respect him the same as they do me.

So far we haven't had too many problems. IF he does something I don't like or agree with I wait until kids are gone and then we talk about it. I would never undermine him in front of them.

I don't agree with step parents shouldn't discipline but I also don't think they should be the sole or major disciplinary either. You need a United front.

Btw, I am one who although I knew my current husband longer once we started dating it moved rather quickly and we were married in a short time. However since we both came from long term marriages we talked about all thks prior to getting married.

Good luck.

bulldozer, no clue what to advise, but do google "emotional sensitivity in gifted children". Her smarts may also be contributing to this behavior too.

being the mother of a wonderful, willful, bright and awesome 4 year-old little girl who is also contrary when and for as long as the mood strikes her:

1) if she whines, howls or bawls, she doesn't get what she's asking for. period.

2) we give her consequences and when she continues to push, she is disciplined. saying "no" to a parent or acting to effectively say "no" is a bad move in our house...instant consequences. it's timeout, it's losing her favorite game (candyland) for a long time. anything she pushes with, she loses. toys on the stairs? we keep them for a couple of weeks.

then this last weekend, she colored in green marker all over her bedroom rug and she got "grounded" for a day. we actually made her go take a present into a classmate's b-day party where there was a moonbounce, etc...she had to take the gift to the boy and then leave because she was "grounded." also no "shows" (curious george, dora), no playing with the kids outside, no playgrounds. she was only allowed to play quietly in her room for 24 hours. she's 4 and needs the exercise, so her stepdad did take her for a walk with the dog, plus let her practice her bike and some rock-climbing up the street.

now, she got to go to a build-a-bear party later that weekend for another close friend's b-day party, so her life doesn't suck.

3) after watching too many corrections and unhappiness for a 4 year old, i started a "yes chart" on the fridge.

dd gets a star (at my discretion) when she's being a "yes girl" - meaning, if she does what i ask, when i ask, politely and nicely without a "but..." or "i just..." or "no...", then she gets a star (or other pretty sticker, she gets to choose.) every 10 stars she gets a playground trip. at 30 stars in 3 weeks she earned a trip to the movie theatre with me. at 50 she was going to get "a medal" - she was SO excited!!!!! omg. then she blew it with the carpet coloring (she DOES know better), so now it's 60 stars before the medal. she LOVES counting them and can get it right now almost every time!

we also bought a pretty sandtimer for mealtimes. it's a 15 minute timer that we run twice if we feel like it, but once is usually enough for her. she loves it. our goal was to get her focused on eating, keeping a nice pace, that allows chewing, pausing, talking and laughing, but still requires the main focus of mealtime to be eating well.

these things have worked like a charm. her stepdad has been appreciative of the improvements, maybe a little humbled by how much the positive reinforcement works. she IS 4. 4 is hard and hilarious, but with our consistency and even some from her bio-dad, we are having much more fun and fewer tantrums and tears on all our parts.

these little ideas and more have also come from obvious sources like "babycenter.com" emails i still get in an old email account. people have figured a lot of things out so that you can find something that works with every kid. it can be hard to be patient but the positive stuff just works better for everyone in the end.

maybe you could just suggest something positive like that?

4) i was raised in a very strict and critical house. i won't raise her with the same esteem killers i grew up with. i don't want her to feel "not good enough" or like a screw up for what she does wrong, even though she does a million things right.

if i let her stepdad steamroll, he would have (and was) falling back on old patterns that would have put us in divorce court. there was no WAY i was going to let him come in and turn my young daughter's life into exactly what i wanted to avoid. H was open enough to go to counseling with me, and to try some of these little tricks with her. i've watched him gain better control over his reactions, and give me more leeway in my parenting.

oh yeah: there is another thing i read and have used is when DD is in a really bad way. i'll put her through the "good mood car wash" - which is me, spinning her around, making scrubbing motions, noises, tickling, simulating water noises, etc...pretending she's in a car wash for bad moods. it turns her right around, at least to a place where she and i can talk more productively.

i reason with my kid all the time. now she tells me and others why they shouldn't be doing certain things. she loves know the "why" behind all her stuff. i don't let her negotiate with me. i make her comply before i explain why so that i don't get hesitation from her when it's an emergency.

you gotta do something, man. this will eat all three of you up...especially the little one. break out of the box and realize that no parent knows how to do this perfectly....we can all go force our minds to think of better and more creative ways to successfully parent...not just rely on what our parents yelled at us.

[This message edited by stretch13 at 9:03 AM, May 16th (Thursday)]

All I could think was that poor little girl

I agree completely with both Heal&Deal and stretch13. I have a very smart, very stubborn 10 yr old boy. If I met my SO when he was 3-4, he would have ran for the hills! And that was before separation/divorce. All hell really broke loose for that year. The techniques that stretch spoke worked WONDERS with him. We call the carwash a Mommy Bear Hug where I just apply constant loving pressure, but now that I think of it, I was usually spinning him around. There are many books out there, Positive Discipline by Jane Nelsen Ed.D. (whole series of books) were a life changer for me. I too was raised very strict, and honestly never really "attached" to my parents because of it. I really, truly didn't feel they loved me. Now I know they did/do, but even now I don't feel it. My brother, who is more laid back, didn't conflict w my parents had a TOTALLY different experience w my parents. I am very careful not to do what my parents did with me, but at the same way, I know I need to replace it with something. I am actually very strict compared to many friends with the big stuff, but totally let small stuff slide. That is my approach, it is what is working well for me now.

Another thing that helped w my son, was intense one on one time with him. I was a SAHM, I spent my whole day w him and his sister, but I realized that rarely spent focused time with him. We ended up calling it "BenBenMommy time" and it became very special to us. We still do it 6 yrs later.

Take your step-DAUGHTER to the park, enjoy her. Buy her icecream. She is not a brat and you have to learn to think otherwise.

Sorry to hear this BD. No advice, you've been given so much good stuff here. Stretch, that's a beautiful account. Positive psychology is a whole field of research and practice now.

Hi Bulldozer. I couldn't help but notice you were posting in the wayward forum on a topic with a stop sign, so this makes me think a little bit more about this thread..

You've gotten some really wonderful advice about parenting, but I'm wondering what the real issue is here. Your last post was basically, "Fuck it. I'll just be unhappy," and I'm wondering if this is part of your slippery slope and something you need to work on in IC. Sounds like you are giving yourself excuses to detach from your wife instead of putting the real work into the marriage.

An illustration: We were at a restaurant recently, and my wife said that the daughter could get a surprise if she would stop swinging her legs under the table (her swinging was wobbling the table).

Um... Wow. When I was little that behavior would have gotten me a spanking, not a bribe. Bribing kids into behaving just teaches them it's OK to be brats because if they are brats, mom will give them treats.

I personally don't blame you for not wanting to be around. Bratty kids make me want to drink lots of gin.

I personally don't blame you for not wanting to be around. Bratty kids make me want to drink lots of gin.

dck - i feel the same way...and then have to suspend those feelings with regard to my daughter because i'm her parent. i have struggled with it and think that in the Universe's special way of providing, i was NOT provided another child in this lifetime. (and also have been provided copious vessels of alcohol placed conveniently around the world, including places like Seaworld! we aren't alone)

that said, if BD has decided to be in a marriage with a women and a child, he has to make choices. he's the grownup. we understand feelings, discipline, consequences, impatience, fairness, unfairness, social graces and compromises. i understand the impulse to simply "not like her" but she's not old enough to haven earned that from parents...step or otherwise.

without sounding too harsh - if she's a brat, it's everyone else's fault, including yours.

now...you say that her parents also think she's a brat, so it's not just you...these are the same parents who your wife feels were too strict. what else would expect them to think? don't side with her parents...help her change things. do it with calm and love, not derision or anger. speak to her when things are calm, suggest some counseling. stop yourself in a heated moment and try one of the positive things suggested.

you married her and this kid. you have to decide how to work on this productively...or you can decide to sit back and wait until you feel it's an excuse to leave.

you aren't a victim here, you are a willing participant in the difficult task of parenting, step-parenting and loving your family in good times and bad.

she won't be 4 forever. there will be a time where that excuse doesn't fly with anyone. none of these behaviors disappear overnight...it's called growing up. and it happens much more healthily in a cooperative environment, not adversarial. she's too LITTLE to be your adversary. she is still completely innocent.

[This message edited by stretch13 at 10:29 AM, May 16th (Thursday)]

Thanks, everyone, for the great well-considered and -intentioned advice. Very much appreciated.

I would like to clear up that I didn't meet and marry my wife in the span of 6 months. I actually knew her for six months before we went on a date, and then I was (a typical man) and didn't bother to count up the months of dating before we married (we actually dated for nine months). So, while we did rush to the alter, it wasn't like we were that rushed.

The daughter's father is an alcoholic and he lives several states a way. He indulges the daughter too because he only sees her one week a month. He lives with his sister because a job is beneath him. He's obviously not very involved in his daughter's life.

I took to heart what everyone had to say. Today, I'm spending some one-on-one time with the daughter. We're going for pizza and then to the park, just the two of us.

I'm going to talk to my wife about setting boundaries and expectations and sticking to them.

Hi Bulldozer. I couldn't help but notice you were posting in the wayward forum on a topic with a stop sign, so this makes me think a little bit more about this thread..

I responded in Wayward; I didn't post. I didn't think it appropriate to come here to this useful resource and ask for help without returning the favor. Since I had been a wayward at one time, I went there to try to help someone.

Thanks again--one and all.

I think it's great you reached out to other waywards to try to help. I love the give and take of this site, it's what makes it so fabulous. I just meant it let me know your history as a former wayward that I didn't when I responded on this topic previously, and I just wanted to give you some more things to think about.

This constant conflict is impacting how I feel about my wife. This morning, my wife said that she loved me and I couldn't even say it back because I was so pissed over another incident with the daughter throwing a fit because she didn't get three ice cubes in her glass.

This had me nervous you were feeling detached from your wife and couldn't even tell her you love her, so I thought given your history the slippery slope could be something to think about..

I keep thinking I want to meet a man who has a daughter already since I don't have one, but this thread has really opened my eyes that being a stepmother and having another man attempt to father my children isn't going to be the rainbows and flowers I was imagining, so thanks for starting this thread. I don't co-parent very well with my STBX, more like parallel parenting, and I'm sure it will be tough to deal with the mother of my future stepchildren if that happens, especially if there's issues like you describe with the other parent.. It's certainly a tough subject for sure with lots of little nuances to be dealt with, so thanks again for starting this thread so I can learn too..

I hope you have fun with your little girl today!

So, if her father is as big a loser as he seems to be, then guess what? You are quickly going to become her father. Especially given his very limited visitation time.

And honestly, don't you want that?

Wasn't your mindset when you married your W that her daughter was part of the package?

Today, I'm spending some one-on-one time with the daughter. We're going for pizza and then to the park, just the two of us.

A great first step.

Perhaps reframing from calling her "the" daughter to "my step-daughter" would also help.

Best of luck.

A gentle 2x4 (or maybe just a different perspective) on something I noted in your last post.

You wrote:

He indulges the daughter too

Today, I'm spending some one-on-one time with the daughter.

THE daughter. She's a little girl, not an object like THE chair or THE car.

It always puts my back up when I hear guys refer to women as "the wife" or "the" whatever. It puts us in a sub-human category.

Maybe a starting point is to humanize the child in your head.

OUR daughter, or at minimum, my WIFE's daughter at least gives the child status as a human...

It looks like AJsMom beat me to the same thought by a few seconds, but obviously its apparent to more than one person here...

It was apparent to me yesterday (or was it the day before) that some serious dehumanizing has already taken place. I say that because I was dehumanized in my marriage, so I'm very sensitive to it (hence my 2x4's early in this thread).

I've found that, generally speaking, children act badly when they feel badly about themselves. The way to get them to behave better is not to make them feel even worse about themselves. Positive reinforcement, even sometimes when not deserved, goes much futher than anger & derision.

A four-year old is just barely out of babyhood. Bulldozer, if you can turn this around and help her feel like a pretty princess instead of the evil stepdaughter, she'll float on clouds of ecstacy and run to be the best girl who ever lived. Little girls adore their daddies. If it takes a few bribes to help her turn her thoughts around, is that really so bad? If that's what it takes to get her back on the right path, where's the harm? I'm not talking about indulging her to the point of making a 4-year old monster. I'm just talking about filling her up with so many good feelings & experiences that she doesn't have a reservoir of negativity to cause her to act up (beyond normal 4-year old sassiness).

You truly do reap what you sow.

yay for pizza and parks. (when she melts down at the end, try to start teaching her "be glad for what you had, not sad!" leaving the park nicely is a "star" moment on our fridge.)

remember this too: she needs you. she needs you to love her "even when..." and "in spite of..." and "no matter what." she needs to feel like you won't leave, physically or emotionally. she needs to know that she CAN'T drive you away.

i know my parents loved me to the moon and back...but growing up, i deeply believed it was conditional. i genuinely believed my father would disown and/or mame/kill me if i got pregnant as a teen, for instance. i always "knew" that i was doing things that if i got caught, would have me "expelled from the family unit/image."

she has every reason right now to have no real security. we think they are too young to understand, and they are...the feel the insecurity and everything else but have no expression or description to apply. it just becomes part of "the way things are." if you've never felt secure in a father's love, you can't really name or realize that until you are much older.

consistency, including discipline, plus a shower of constant if imperfect love is exactly what that special little female soul needs, forever...from a father.

dd4 has already started calling H "dad" and "daddy" sometimes. she also sees her "real dad" every week and he's very involved. she feels lucky that she has 2 daddies. i'm glad she has daddy #2 for the consistency, competency and everything else he brings to her life that XH can't.

be that for your daughter. one day she will tell her friends that "Bulldozer was my real dad and he has been for as long as i can remember..." and thank you for accepting her and loving her as your very own.

it will always be up to you to remember that end result, even when she challenges you, even when she later throws out all the "yer not my REAL dad" jabs. you are the grownup. she could be so lucky to have you

Little T/J--

GDM calls his only daughter "the daughter" and in their world, it is an endearment. I find it cute.

Just another perspective.

Cat

Catwoman,

I agree that it can be an endearment if its your family's "thing". (For example, I'm my father's third child out of 7, so he jokingly calls me Number Three sometimes).

However, I dont think BD's use of "the daughter" is meant as a light-hearted term of endearment.

[This message edited by GabyBaby at 12:03 PM, May 16th (Thursday)]

However, I dont think BD's use of "the daughter" is meant as a light-hearted term of endearment.

Agreed.

Rico and I collectively have called AJ "The Boy" since his youth, given he was surrounded by step-sisters, but that was after decades of step-parenting on both sides.

t/j About leaving places without a meltdown - I live in central florida WDW was my kids back yard. For a lot of years we had season passes. One time we were leaving with twin 2yo and a newborn.. the 2 yos were having a meltdown about leaving. Another parent (friend with a 4 and 2 yo) took the kids to the end of main street and had them wave good bye to the castle, mickey, Minnie etc.. saying "see you next time we come." We got on the monorail with my kids happily waving good bye to everything they saw. It was an eye opener for me.

My friend explained that young kids attribute their feelings to everything, animate and inanimate objects alike. She had been using this with her 4 yo ever since she could wave good bye.

I used it from that day forward and never had a problem getting my kids (4) out of a place.

So simple, yet so effective.

Hugs,

K

[This message edited by Kajem at 12:52 PM, May 16th (Thursday)]