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Abbondad ~

First, keep up the good work...you've come a long way since I first started following your saga!

Second... What advantages to you see to Collaborative divorce?

From what I've read/seen/heard, they are more expensive than mediated divorces. It also requires the agreement of ALL parties (which your WW would NOT agree to at this point) to participate in a "what's good for the whole family/children" frame of mind.

I just don't see that happening with your WW, and frankly, I would be tempted (in your situation) to get something filed, especially with regard to custody/visitation.

State laws usually govern most of the divorce proceedings anyway. Unless your situation is especially complicated, there's not a lot to discuss.

Although most people don't think this is true, I'm a firm believer in being the one that initiates proceedings. Its MUCH easier to be in the drivers' seat than to be taken for the ride. YOU can initiate proceedings, specify financial/asset division, custody/visition and CS details. She can either agree (and sign on the dotted line) or not.

If the two of you have already discussed a lot of the financials/Custody/CS stuff, then you already know where she stands and I would strike while the iron is hot. There are GOBS of people who either trusted or believed their WS wouldn't screw them in the end....and of course, they did!

There are TONS Of posts here on SI regarding detailing custody, visitation and CS arrangements. Because I don't know your financial situation, I cannot speak to how complicated that may be.

I was a do-it-myself divorcer. I filed the papers, did all the serving/required junk and made it happen. He didn't even have to respond at all ~ even though he agreed with it, it was filed as a default judgement.

Get your assets and salary/incomes listed, get your debts identified. Gather all your propety and tax information. Round up any pension/401(k)/investment account statements.

Continue to document all 'parenting time' arrangements to date (you've been doing this, right?). I'm thinking you've got a visitation/custody plan sorta, kinda worked out? Put it in writing! There are GOBS of details here about custody arrangements and child support issues that may arise in the future. Write it all out...and be SPECIFIC.

If your situation was *simple*, I would say to fill out the paperwork yourself and have your WW review it. See if she's REALLY going to be cooperative (or not).

But I don't give a flying fuck about your WW, and more importantly, I don't trust her.

I would take my info to the nearest SHARK attorney and file for divorce. You can mediate when/if she doesn't agree with the terms, but you CANNOT have a collaborative divorce with someone who doesn't WANT to, and moreover, REALLY doesn't have the 'best interest of the family' in mind.

I'd really like to see you in the driver's seat, Abbondad....instead of watching your WW take you for a ride. She is obviously interested in the best outcome for HERSELF alone.

If I'm honest, I won't be too surprised if I see you post here soon that SHE filed for divorce.

You are detaching rather well, so she may be waking up that this is a reality and start thinking to protect herself.

Maybe not, but I agree with cjonesjag that it's much better to be in the driver's seat..

Butterfly girl,

I thought I was detaching until this morning. Now I feel like I did six months ago. Just wracking sobs all day. I guess it's normal to cycle like this? I haven't broken 180; it's just a bad trigger even hearing her drive away with our children. (I had closed myself off in another part of the house so I at least would not see it.)

I can't imagine that I will ever get used to that sound...

Dad, I could be dead wrong, and correct me if I am, but I feel like you can't sever the connection between you & WW because you still have hope that she will come home to you & your kiddos & live happily ever after?? Not to say it couldn't happen, but strict NC with OM would need to be step #1 and I haven't seen that be an option for your family.

I wish you strength Dad! All the best Jamie

[This message edited by JamieMc at 9:55 AM, June 3rd (Monday)]

Hey Abbondad,

I understand you don't feel you are detaching that well. They don't call it a roller coaster for nothin.. Yes, the cycling is very normal.. Some days you will feel good, some days will feel like you're back to square one.. I PROMISE the highs and lows won't swing as fast or as often over time.. The sooner you institute strict NC, the sooner the ride will smoothen out. Honestly, it's the days I gets texts or emails or have to see his car at dropoffs that cause my dips, but it gets A LOT easier. I promise, promise, promise!!

And even though you didn't feel detached this morning, you said you stayed 180 and didn't see her. So SHE still thinks you are detaching, and you guys are having a lot of discussions about this divorce. I don't recommend trying to analyze her too much, but if I was her, I would be talking to attorneys already and figuring out my options.. Especially if I'm continuing the affair and my husband was talking divorce. I'd start protecting myself right away, which might be what she's thinking.. I'm not sure what she thinks her next best move is, but she's gonna do whatever is best FOR HER..

Perhaps you are seeing filing for divorce as some type of hurt you would cause her, like then you would be guilty of something. THAT'S NOT TRUE!! It does NOT hurt her to protect yourself.

There are so many horrible sneaky things she could do right now that you would have no control over. She could sell every last thing you guys own, she could leave the country with the kids, she could run up debt that you would owe half of, she could do a lot right now; but just by filing, the administrative orders will give you a lot of protection..

You can always unfile if things change, it can still be mediated, it can still be cheap, it can be all of that even if you file.. I really think it's your best move right now.. It's only a few hundred bucks to at least protect yourself, your kids, and your financial future..

Hugs..

I just want to add, there's some things I wish I did before I filed, so I really recommend lawyering up and figuring out what you should maybe do before you file. "Get your ducks in a row" as they say.

We are both in Florida, so I'm gonna assume some of the same rules. After you file, you can't go changing accounts around, so if you have joint things like credit cards, cell phones, car insurance, etc., separate it all now. Definitely cancel all joint anything.. Anything that has her name on it regarding your house like the electric or whatever, get her off and get it all in your own name..

I know this is hard, and I can see you have a big heart, just like I think I do, but we have to let our heads do the thinking sometimes and worry about our hearts later.. A lawyer will help your head figure out more of what to do given your specific circumstances..

More hugs..

Legal advice is most always well spent money, sometimes cheaper in the long run.

I bet you broke down because the kids were gone and you had to freedom to let it all out. That's ok, a part of the process.

Dad, I could be dead wrong, and correct me if I am, but I feel like you can't sever the connection between you & WW because you still have hope that she will come home to you & your kiddos & live happily ever after?? Not to say it couldn't happen, but strict NC with OM would need to be step #1 and I haven't seen thatp be an option for your family.

I wish you strength Dad! All the best Jamie

Thank you, Jamie,

Of course that hope has never been completely extinguished. It may never, or if it does, I can easily see it dying completely only a long time from now.

She knows the deal. She knows what is required and has from the beginning. And I have seen her try at least three times. And fail, obviously. She is deep in her addiction, fog, true love, whatever.

I am done playing "Choose me." Did that for months. She is on her own.

Hi,

Sometimes I feel like my daily primal weeping is abnormal. Almost out of proportion to the situation? I guess it's because I read so many people's posts that express primarily fury and disdain for their waywards' actions. I want to feel,this and I do, but only in brief spurts. Then it's back to the grief-wails.

I don't mean to imply they did not love their spouses as deeply as I did and do. But did you go through this phase and reaction? I guess I am looking for reassurances that I am just a normal sensitive human being reacting naturally.

AD - its normal. Give yourself a break. You are grieving the end of your marriage. Everyone responds in different ways. I too had tears, but I also had anger and lots of it. Anger's not necessarily easier or better - its just different.

Just keep moving forward - be proactive in your healing and it will start to get better. No-one stays like this for ever. Believe me.

However, I agree with Jamie that a part of you holds onto hope. This is also normal, but there will come a time when you need to let it go. That's easy to say and hard to do, I know, but that day will come. And you will know it.

Keep it up AD - you are doing great.

V

Hi,

So I just picked up my nine year old from the nurse's office at school. He had called me from the restroom crying. Said he was "scared about you-know-what."

Turns out a few of his classmates had been telling him about their parents' divorces--how their mom and dad hated each other, fought all the time, one or the other didn't see them much, etc.

He asked me why since I and his mom didn't fight, we are getting divorced. And it's true: we really never fought much--just lots of hushed silences and tears and palpable tension.

Anyway, I comforted and assured as best I could. But again I am so angry, so very angry at her. Especially for her coming home with promises for all that everything would be OK. Only to leave again when I blew up at her breaking NC.

I guess this is more of a vent than anything.... Thanks for understanding.

Sometimes I feel like my daily primal weeping is abnormal. Almost out of proportion to the situation? I guess it's because I read so many people's posts that express primarily fury and disdain for their waywards' actions. I want to feel,this and I do, but only in brief spurts. Then it's back to the grief-wails.

This is normal as others have stated. It's the grieving over what used to be. Believe me the fury and anger comes eventually along with indifference. Do what you can when you can but for me, the sadness and pain went away much faster after I actually filed for D. I knew it was over and filing was scary but it pushed me towards acceptance that my M is over and greatly helped me when I was detaching.

Specifically I was anxious leading up to filing. As soon as the papers were signed I damn near dance out of the lawyers office because a weight lifted almost immediately. Then the last real bout of sadness hit as I actually "mourned the death" of my M because by filing I had pulled the plug. I made a consious decision to kill the "hope" so I could start moving on. I was sad for a bit but eventually that went away and I worked on completely detaching and moving forward. It's been all positive movement since then because I chose to actively better my situation.

IMO, at least for me much of this was willing myself to do the things I KNEW I needed to do to end the pain. You are doing great abbondad. Just keep moving forward. I still had hope when I filed but in my GUT I knew it was over so it was really just my heart taking a bit to catch up with my head. Again, do what you can when you can but just go ahead and "jedi-mind trick" yourself into going to see that L. Taking the steps your mind knows you need to take helps move the heart along so it catches up.

AD,

Try reading this article, I think it may help you to understand that there is something chemical going on in your brain right now as well. This may help you not feel so helpless with all of the feelings you are experiencing.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/thriving101/201012/rejection-losers-guide

I hear you about the wailing....

Not sure how you feel about antidepressants but they really helped me with this--I still had the grief but was able to get up off the floor.

Can you put him in therapy?

I know not everyone here agrees...but I told my kids the truth. Age appropriate, of course, but the truth.

My dd's IC told me that considering the situation, she is very well adjusted. We have open dialogue, she can ask whatever she wants and I will give her the kid version of the truth.

Details are not necessary, but *I* felt like it would help my dd understand (she is also 9) and it did and does. You know your kid best, you need to do what you feel like is in his best interest. I don't protect my EX. I don't trash him, we co-parent well, he is here for holiday and parties and such, but I don't protect him.

Kids want to know why. If you get along, they want to know why you won't get back together too. None of it is easy, but it does become easier.

You have received a lot of good advice and have been doing a great job so far.

I had a happy marriage. We were married for 24 years. His A came completely out of left field. And he filed for D while I felt we could still work it out. It was gut-wrenching.

I cried ALL THE TIME. I even took a day off work here and there just to lie in bed and cry all day. I cried in the shower. I cried in the car. And I contemplated suicide every day for at least a month. I just wanted the pain to end. The thought of hurting my children kept me from following through.

The big difference is that my sons were grown (mostly) one was married and the other in college. So I tried to shield them from most of my pain, but they knew I was devastated.

What helped me when I was reaching around trying to figure out where my husband went and who was this "other" person who had taken his place was this - I pretended he died. There was this other person who looked like him, but it was not the man I loved and had shared a life with for 24 years.

You can mourn someone who is dead. You can't talk to them, or be comforted by them, so there is no use thinking like that. They are gone. This stranger you have to deal with is not your friend and certainly not the person you once loved. That person is GONE FOREVER.

When that sinks in, the pain will lessen, ever so slightly. You will cycle through the stages of grief, and circle back. But finally, after much time has passed, you will come to acceptance. And that is a great place to be.

BTW - so glad I didn't act on my impulses, because my life is so wonderful now 8 years later.

Sending strength and peace.

NL

Right on, Newlease.

Your story sounds similar to mine, minus the kids, but all of the emotions and paralyzing grief had ahold of me. I began to think of ex as dead and mourned the loss of who I thought he was and who I thought "we" were. There never really was a "we." I see that now.

Sorry to t/j, Abbon. Stay strong.

I know not everyone here agrees...but I told my kids the truth. Age appropriate, of course, but the truth.

I agree. Mine both know the age-appropriate truth.

I think this is an especially a good idea if the children are already being exposed to the affair partner.. The children will eventually figure it out, and I think it's better if they always had at least one parent they could trust to tell them the truth..

I thought I was detaching until this morning. Now I feel like I did six months ago. Just wracking sobs all day. I guess it's normal to cycle like this?

Yes, it is.

Remember S.W.I.R.L., too:

S.W.I.R.L. is an acronym which stands for the five stages of abandonment: Shattering, Withdrawal, Internalizing, Rage, and Lifting

You S.W.I.R.L. through the stages over and over within an hour, a day, a month, sometimes a period of years – - cycles within cycles – - until you emerge out the end of the funnel-shaped cloud, a changed person, better able to find love than before.

http://www.abandonment.net/swirl-the-five-stages-of-abandonment

Hang in there, Abbondad.

Help... After the distressful episode with my son this afternoon (see above), I find myself googling "How long do long term affairs last," "Is reconciliation possible after a long term affair," etc.

Reel me in, smack me, assure me that this is normal... Anything.

The reality of it is starting to sink in for him: he has been asking tearfully about Christmas (always the most wonderful family time of the year even though we're Jewish ;-), vacations, etc. I am so despondent.

He also said shakily yesterday, "I think Mommy already met someone she likes." My heart sank--not that I was surprised, but angry she was possibly exposing OM to,him before the divorce is finalized, which is something she assured me she would not do. (Not that I believe anything she says.)

Turns out there is some creep at the apartment complex where she is living who,has been hitting on her. Bizarrely, she took great pains to assure me she has made it clear to him to back off. To assuage my concerns or fears! WTF?

No mention of the actual OM and what's happening with that match made in paradise.

I know, thinking too much about her, but son was very upset about it. I simply said, "Mommy can do what she wants." Probably a lame response, but it's all I had at the time.

Thank you.

[This message edited by Abbondad at 6:07 PM, June 3rd (Monday)]