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(((Sal)))

I'm a wayward, and this post was gutwrenching to read. It gives me insight into how I acted, and how it felt for him, and how hard he still tried to keep us together! I'm in tears right now, for him and you and all the BSs out there that endured such pain and betrayal! When I finally "got it" and really started the work, it was like a train hit me. I can never undo what I have done! I can never go back in time and erase all that time I was so cruel and cold, all of the hurtful things I said and did and that tears me apart! And I realize, and am painfully reminded as I read this post, how this hurts him infinitely more.

Thank you for this insight and reminder of how deeply these wounds have gone. I never want to forget how much he hurts because of me! I never want to feel complacent in my life and healing. This is a good reminder of just deep this pain goes and how much work there is to do! It also rekindles in me the drive to truly fight for us! For him! No matter what the outcome. He deserves every ounce of my being and attention. And he deserves every chance at happiness in the world!

Thank you again sal! I'm so sorry for your pain! You sound like a loving man and a wonderful father. I wish you peace and healing!

Riding/healing, I absolutely agree every WS should read this!

FeelingSoMuch - thanks, I appreciate that.

Ophelia - thanks for laying it all out there like that, it's nice to get a wayward's perspective. As Aubrie and others on here might say, it sounds like you are owning your shit.

SisterMilkshake - those are my feelings exactly, thanks

PurpleRose, fraueken - thanks, nice of you to say.

tiredgirl - I've actually heard those words or something to that effect, but am starting to sense some exhaustion on her part. Unfortunate, but not something I asked for.

LadyOgilvy - It was, thanks! Glad you got something out of it as well.

DarkInertia - Yes, she read it, but no feedback yet.

Cinnamongurl - Your comments are much appreciated. The fact that you and other waywards on this site "got it" is very encouraging.

SI is awesome. My MC encouraged me to write down my thoughts and feelings, but that didn't work. This is much better because you get feedback from people who know what you've gone through and will be going through.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 2:28 PM, May 20th (Monday)]

RidingHealing - I'm glad you have a model WS, hope to be able to say the same thing one day. I'm still new at this, so the idea that anything I contribute would be considered educational is a nice thought. Thanks

I understand that with 4 children divorce is not a sensible option, at least for many years. When I read the justifiable bitterness in your letter and the depth of her disrespect and betrayal, I just wonder how you are going to reconcile fully and successfully.

She is now displaying impatience because you won't put it all behind you and refuses to see the serious damage done; the destroyed belief in your relationship and vanishing trust.

Best of luck; you will need a great deal of resolve and determination.

Great post...I am at this stage as well...but I have tried for the sake of my kids, I will not stay for them...good luck

Thanks Sal, I thought my post may have been a bit too much me, me, me (a WW trait that is difficult to eradicate) but I guess what I wanted to impress on you, considering your DD wasn't that long ago, is that it can take awhile for us to 'get it'. The advantage you have, that my H and I didn't, which lengthened the process of true change for me, and him, is that you are on this site and now have more information on what needs to happen from her, and a clearer sense of what true remorse looks and feels like, as well as a deep change from your WW. You have no doubt read WAL's posts in BM in which he raged for 2 years, but his WW was also doing some intense therapy to get to the bottom of her stuff. I myself have not gone the IC route, but rather, came to a place of having to really look at myself and my behaviours as they were no longer working for me. I had to basically grow up.

Which is what your WW needs to do, grow up, and own her behaviour and stop blaming,running and hiding. She needs to face herself. But she will only get there when she gets there.

And only she can want that for herself.

When I read the justifiable bitterness in your letter and the depth of her disrespect and betrayal, I just wonder how you are going to reconcile fully and successfully.

I wonder about the same thing, OK Now. She showed complete and utter disrespect for not just me, but for our marriage and for herself. Degraded herself with a lowlife who she didn't go for when he first tried to get with her when she was a freshman in college. I guess her standards lowered somewhat in the ensuing years (so says the man she married).

thanks cletusvw

Ophelia, I'm not familiar with WAL's posts - is that from an old BM thread? I wouldn't mind checking them out.

Yes, WAL posts down in the BM thread.

I came here as a WW first, and I have read your posts here and down in BM, I am curious as to why you feel that your WW is remorseful at this point?

I came here as a WW first, and I have read your posts here and down in BM, I am curious as to why you feel that your WW is remorseful at this point?

Good question tg, and very timely. Because I'm starting to think otherwise.

My wife has expressed a lot of remorse, but something is changing. I'm just not feeling it, and it seems like she has grown tired of expressing it.

I asked her what her take was on this thread. She said "I don't know what to think about it."

Period. Nothing more. It moved complete strangers, but not her apparently.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 7:53 PM, May 20th (Monday)]

Your letter is a powerful denunciation of adultery and the damage done to a marriage.

However if I was your WW and I read that letter and this whole thread of SI input that followed, I would be inclined to think that it was hopeless; full reconciliation is not possible.

Every reconciling WS needs hope that one day, maybe far into the future, the BS will let go of the painful memories and rebuild the relationship; maybe better than before. I think you shocked the veritable crap out of your WW with your compelling letter; maybe brought home the reality of what she has done. Wonder if she isn't now just going to give up and stop trying; it all hopeless, he'll never get over it attitude.

Don't underestimate just how powerful your letter was and the effect it had on a few WW's who posted in this thread. What effect did it have on your wife even if she didn't let it show? Hopefully a positive effect that may produce intense remorse, but there again, maybe she'll just get defensive and withdraw. The antidote to guilt.

if I was your WW and I read that letter and this whole thread of SI input that followed, I would be inclined to think that it was hopeless; full reconciliation is not possible.

AND...

but there again, maybe she'll just get defensive and withdraw

Then she is not ready to do the very difficult work required to R. It's not about HER, she must remember that...always.

More than hope, what a WS really needs tremendous endurance.

I assure you my WH faced many, many, many days during R when he feared it might be hopeless but he NEVER wavered, ever. He caused the devastation, he was responsible for fixing it. He worked extremely hard. He put up with true rage and anger on my part but he never gave up.

I firmly believe the WS must want R more than the BS.

[This message edited by RidingHealingRd at 12:08 AM, May 21st (Tuesday)]

I suspect your W is not at the place to take your letter in. I remember feeling very numb and uncaring towards my BH'shurt. Was all about me thats why and I could barely feel my own hurts, let alone my H. I just hadnt gone there yet.

I know now what it feels like to have a curiosity about what my H thinks and writes and that is because I am in love with him. Had to start loving myself for that to happen. Now, if he were writing on SI, I would be all over it. Not replying, but reading about what he's thinking. That's why I read the BM threads. Harsh to read for a WW but not a Terrible thing to cringe at the pain and anger expressed. WALs FWW also writes on SI under Wincing sparkle. Her profile is awesome reading. Keeping in mind though Sal that it took a while for them, and many of us to dig deep.

I've been wary about posting on this and have started and shied away multiple times. As a FWSO it was a hard pill to swallow as it brought back so many memories of the first months after DDay. I lied, I won't call it TT it was lying. I minimized, I thought I knew what he would do if he knew it all. When I got it, it was like a punch to the gut. Everything your letter says was screamed and yelled in my face. As a WS get he hope comes from the fact that our BS is still there. We must have the strength to work through R and be the one to carry the whole load for a long time. Endurance is hard to keep up and while WS may sometimes get tired and need to take a day or two to rest they do not get to shy away intimidated by he effort that must be shown. Eventually throwing ourselves at a wall and bouncing off will leave us bruised and battered and incapable of continuing without a bit more encouragement and hope but that moment is a long time down the line. The two of you should be at the place where she carries the load and if she can't I think she's giving you her answer about her feelings towards the relationship.

I think I may have been a little all over the place here, I have a migraine and its hard to concentrate but I hope I made sense. I'm sending support to you for whatever decision you make. Remember in the end your peace and happiness is what's important.

Every reconciling WS needs hope that one day, maybe far into the future, the BS will let go of the painful memories and rebuild the relationship; maybe better than before

I disagree with this. Once I became fully remorseful, the only hope I had was that he would stay in R and let me fix myself. I let go of the outcomes and quit looking down the road. I dealt with each day as it came. I quit putting expectations on how he should behave. That was part of being remorseful.

I don't believe your wife has remorse, she may have some regret. Remorse has action, and I don't believe you have seen that yet.

However if I was your WW and I read that letter and this whole thread of SI input that followed, I would be inclined to think that it was hopeless; full reconciliation is not possible.

Every reconciling WS needs hope that one day, maybe far into the future, the BS will let go of the painful memories and rebuild the relationship; maybe better than before. I think you shocked the veritable crap out of your WW with your compelling letter; maybe brought home the reality of what she has done. Wonder if she isn't now just going to give up and stop trying; it all hopeless, he'll never get over it attitude.

Interesting take OK Now. The truth is what it is, and in this case and from what I've seen reading the stories on this site, outrageously bad behavior seems to be more the norm than the exception. So what aspect of the letter do you believe would make her most likely to give up hope - the list of all the things she did and the shame and humiliation that goes with it, or the belief that I've hardened my heart and am not likely to reconcile?

I firmly believe the WS must want R more than the BS.

I agree RidingHealingRd - well deserved or not, it must be hell to face a grieving, angry spouse every day and to know that this will be your life for the next couple of years.

I suspect your W is not at the place to take your letter in.

She's not, Ophelia. But we talked last night. She told me that she's "scared shitless." A little shell-shocked by the fallout it seems.

The two of you should be at the place where she carries the load and if she can't I think she's giving you her answer about her feelings towards the relationship.

I get what you're saying Unagie. She has been carrying a large load, and has been working hard on our daughters. The unfortunate fact of our case is that she taught her daughters that it's ok to cheat on your husband if you don't feel "happy", it's ok to lie, ok to continue an affair even when your own children have outed you, it's ok to engage in degrading behavior, and it's ok to accept a man sending pictures of his dick to you. Basically, creating a future FOO excuse for bad marital behavior our daughters might engage in. She and the MC/IC are trying to undo all of that. Then she's trying to deal with my pain and anger. Last night I realized that she was completely exhausted.

I disagree with this. Once I became fully remorseful, the only hope I had was that he would stay in R and let me fix myself. I let go of the outcomes and quit looking down the road.

tiredgirl, my wife said something last night that gave me hope for the first time in several days - she wants to fix herself and never cheat again, even if I divorce her over this. She doesn't want to cheat on me or a future husband/boyfriend because that's not the kind of person she wants to be anymore (there was no sign she was this person before about 18 months ago). I took that as her saying that she wants to be a better person, regardless of the ultimate outcome of our situation.

What a moving thread and I haven't had a chance to finish ready all the posts. Dealing with a WS is so incredibly hard - especially with kids who we both love so much.

Last night I realized that she was completely exhausted.

Yes the exhaustion can be overwhelming. You work so hard throwing yourself at everything that you get to a point where there is literally no more to give. At that moment you must reach down and find strength that most don't realize exists. I have been exhausted for months. I barely sleep on top of the mental exhaustion so it feels like a truck has run me over most days. But I keep trying even if my effort that day is small its still an effort.

Its good that she wants to fix herself regardless of the outcome. That should be the mail goal for all waywards.

Good. That's good that she can say that to you. I had a very similar mindset when I started realizing I had to fix me. I hoped that Hlessons was going to stick around for it, but I was going to do it either way.

My H had a similar mindset when he started realizing the problem was him. Not me, not the marriage.

Remorse may not be far behind for her. Have you read wert's post in recon? About what to do after Dday?

tiredgirl, my wife said something last night that gave me hope for the first time in several days - she wants to fix herself and never cheat again, even if I divorce her over this. She doesn't want to cheat on me or a future husband/boyfriend because that's not the kind of person she wants to be anymore (there was no sign she was this person before about 18 months ago). I took that as her saying that she wants to be a better person, regardless of the ultimate outcome of our situation.

That definitely sounds more promising Sal. As TG says, it is the wanting to change ourselves, regardless of whether the marriage survives or not, that is a definite shift in thinking. If she continues to go down this track, she will start to look at the damage to herself, you and your children, and be horror struck. I was. It was painful, but necessary. And very worth it.