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My DS5 is here for the summer. His NPD father lives 5hrs away. Our custody arrangement is that I have DS5 every other Thurs-Sun, all holiday breaks, Thurs-Mon if no school on Mon, and all but 2weeks of the summer. His behavior is totally out of control lately. NPD dad and his wife do believe in beating him. I nor MrWNW do not. Both MrWNW and I were severely abused children and have refused to raise our children in that way. My family of course suggests I "beat his ass", which is exactly the recommendation from his NPD dad. My best friend doesn't believe in beating her children either, and she just doesn't know what she'd do if DS5 was hers. She doesn't have answers for me, and I don't have answers for me. MrWNW's 260lbs and deep voice were always enough of a factor to keep DS5 on edge not to push his boundaries, but I'm in 180 and MrWNW is on house arrest at his house, so couldn't help even if he wanted to. I'm looking for NON-beating solutions here, please.

DS5 threw a toy truck at an expensive original oil painting of mine on the wall for being told he could play but not down the street. It was an extreme anger reaction to a minor thing. The reaction didn't fit the event.

He may just be testing boundaries, not having been here more than a few days at a time in awhile?

He's had some other issues too, saying mean/inappropriate things to DD9 and his friends, aggravating friends by "copying" them or holding toys to annoy them and laying on friends, and I caught him lightly kicking the dog yesterday. He touches people when they don't want touched, like his friends, he'll poke them repeatedly, smack their butts, and he laughs even when they ask him to stop. He's quick to smack in anger if he's upset and someone is close to him.

His general behavior is why I wouldn't allow him down the street yesterday. I didn't want his friend's mom to have to deal with DS5's behavior. So, I told him he'd have to play in our yard with his friends. That's when he threw the truck.

Sunday we had a great day, attended a children's church festival for several hours with a train ride, bouncy houses, big bouncy slide, mechanical bull, etc. After that we went to the park with my dad and my best friend and her kids, and we all fished, and the kids and dog swam. DS5 caught the first fish. When it was time to go home from fishing, he cried, threw a tantrum, cried the whole 10min ride home, hysterical, that he didn't want to quit fishing. I hadn't seen him have a tantrum like that in a long time.

Last night, my best friend told DS5 her DD7 couldn't spend the night because she had too much homework, and DS5 began crying. DD9 walked towards him concerned, saying "Oh, what's wrong?" (She has severe autism, doesn't understand, but she tries to). He responded by lunging at her, pushing her, and screaming at her "I don't WANT you [DD9]! I WANT [friend's DD7]!" Of course, DD9 then cried too.

Then like night and day, 5mins later, he cuddled up next to me on the couch, asked me questions about summer skies, why it was pink, and asked me to scratch his back, was sweet as candy, very loving, normal, inquisitive little boy. Odd to say the least.

I've tried after the fact at times to ask him what he's feeling during times of his outbursts, but he doesn't know. What we've always done is separate him, put him in his room, door open, but he's to stay there until he calms down. For 5yrs this has worked. All of a sudden, now, he'll calm down, come out, and within minutes later he's having another incident.

Of course, I asked NPD dad if he had seen this behavior recently and he responded that he hadn't nor had his wife....in other words, the problem is me and the fact I'm a terrible mom for not beating my kids. And honestly, at this point, I feel terrible, like I'm an inefficient parent. I just don't know what to do.

[This message edited by windowsnotwalls at 6:42 AM, May 21st (Tuesday)]

I'm not a therapist so this is a guess.

I think his behavior could be a result of him getting hit by the other family members and he's lashing out for attention. Is he in therapy?

Maybe you can sit him down and explain your house rules and what would happen if he breaks them (take away, not hitting)

I'm sure he's a sweet little boy and if he's shown proper behavior he may realize what he's doing is wrong.

You mentioned is sister being autistic, is there a chance he is? Is he in school yet? How is his behavior there?

(((Hugs))) to you and your sweet little boy.

No, there's no chance he has autism. I had him tested by my DD's psychologist. He's not in therapy, but I am going to call to set something up for him. He is in school. He reports having been in trouble, having to sit in a chair a lot there, but over the past couple months, his behavior seemed to improve in school, and he wasn't in trouble there. I have told him the house rules, have explained I don't hit him and I expect him not to hit others, that it is inappropriate to hurt others just because you're angry, that it was completely unacceptable and I would not tolerate it in my home. (I was calm but very stern....which should've in and of itself shaken him up.) He's been told that if he continues this negative behavior, he will lose all privileges--outside play, friends over, park days, fishing with Pap, bike riding, etc. In addition, he is praised and rewarded when I see positive choices. He gets stickers for individual good things. He gets $5 for the ice cream truck (or whatever he wants) once a week also as long as he's getting stickers consistently. Sunday he chose to give one of his dollars to his friend at the carnival so his friend could get their face painted. Really, he has a great heart. I talk to him about safe anger vs bad anger. He's just so very young, I'm not sure he can comprehend. He really is a sweet, loving boy, so that just compounds my worry. Of course, I hope spending the summer here, he'll simply pick up on better social skills from modeling behavior, but in the meantime, I'm very very concerned.

[This message edited by windowsnotwalls at 6:52 AM, May 21st (Tuesday)]

Yeah my dad beat the shit out of me when I was a kid and I don't go for that either. I have spanked the boys on occasion but it's not a regular thing and not even much of a deterrent anyway.

IMO the problem is that there is no consistent discipline. You've made it clear you won't beat your kid, his dad does it. Personally I think his dad should get the fuck over himself and put in a little mental effort and patience to find alternatives to beating your kid and make him fear you but that's not likely to happen so you probably are just going to have to deal with this kind of shit until he is old enough to be reasoned with. That means doing the best you can as you are and addressing all the shit he does, but it's not likely to go away because his dad is likely to continue with the inconsistency.

Even setting aside my personal dislike for beating small children and animals, it sounds like he has your son much less of the time, which would mean he should be following your discipline lead, not just fucking off to do whatever he wants himself. Ideally you guys could reach a happy medium for your sons sake but at the end of the day the majority of the time is with you, so he is the one that needs to maintain consistency.

I can tell you from personal experience that I'm sure your son does "behave" around his dad for fear of the strap or the fist. Fear is a lot different from respect and discipline though.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 7:00 AM, May 21st (Tuesday)]

I would get him into therapy. Some thing is obviously going wrong. He is obviously angry, and has a hard time showing it. It sounds like he is behind emotionally in developing coping mechanisms. Lots of changes all at once (that he has no control over) could be causing these outbursts. It seems that when someone takes control of a situation and it isn't him, he has a meltdown.

You're getting the outbursts because you're the safe parent.

Until you have therapy lined up for him, can you try to teach him coping skills by going back to things that worked when he was younger and building on them? I look at it that it can't hurt to revisit what used to work and see if what used to work has a bigger kid version to help him along. I know we do that with some of our school kids who have a hard time transitioning from one task to another.

Good luck,

k

It seems that when someone takes control of a situation and it isn't him, he has a meltdown.

I think you're correct. I'm going to consider some responsibilities I can give him to boost his self-esteem and realization his choices are under his control, things he can be proud of. He does feed the dog, and he likes doing that. Stuff like that, I'll continue to build on.

He's had a truly hellacious year and a half. His dad pretty much launched a perjured assault against me to use the court to abuse me by proxy, and DS5 was the collateral damage.

@StillGoing, there's no discussing anything with NPD dad. 1. I don't believe he HAS the emotional intelligence to be able to put any mental effort into parenting, and 2. He believes he is God, his way is always right, so why would God listen to a mere mortal? He won't. Whatever positive parenting this kid is going to get is on my shoulder's. Convincing NPD dad or his wife of their part in his behavior is not a possibility. Legally, there's nothing to be done about it either. I even took in photos of the bruises on the back of DS5's legs from being beat with a belt during custody court. It's apparently still a parents choice to beat their kids. I couldn't prove that's where the bruises came from, even though the other side admitted (proudly) yes they beat the kids because they love them!

Have you talked with child protective services about the beating? I find it very hard to believe that any state would be okay with bruises on a child.

If you were to start a record with some CPS-type group, collecting photos, consistent reporting, setting up patterns, then that would eventually be your proof that something is happening, and hopefully you could nail his dad as an abusive father.

http://preventchildabusepa.org/

The only time he had noticeable bruises that were clearly from abuse were the bruises across the back of his legs from the belt. However, NPD dad said it was from DS5's friend hitting him with a bat accidentally, and DS5, terrified of recourse, chirped the required concurrence. All other bruises have been things that could be explained away by normal child bumps and bruises. Pretty sure after the other time, NPD dad knows to cover his tracks better and won't be allowing me the evidence to do anything of this.

It's likely he will slip in the future and things will only escalate.

Talking about it without dad being around is the only way. IC needs to happen.

OMG! I feel so bad for your son. He needs to be taken away from his father. There's a difference between fear and respect, and abuse and discipline.

I agree with the others that CPS should be notified even if they just tell you were you could start. That's a difficult situation.

In addition, he is praised and rewarded when I see positive choices. He gets stickers for individual good things. He gets $5 for the ice cream truck (or whatever he wants) once a week also as long as he's getting stickers consistently.

This is a good idea. Do you have a chore chart? Since he likes to feed the dog maybe you could sit down with him and have him chose some chores he'd like to do and assign a certain amount to each chart so he could earn an allowance. By him choosing his own jobs may make him feel like he's in more control and has more of a say. Have him pick out his stickers and put them on the chart etc...

We had a behavior chart a while ago. It listed all the behavior we wanted to stop and it had a point system. Easy stuff had a lower point (earned 5 points for no yelling) nd more difficult had a higher point (receiving a compliment from a stranger out in public for good behavior earned 20 points). Then we had rewards they would earn after they earned so many points. They would chose the reward at the beginning of the week and work to earn the points all week. It was understood that if they didn't enough they didn't get the reward and they had to try harder next time. Maybe your son would like to do something like that.

(((HUGS)))

Yes, he needs to be in counseling. There is NO reason his father should be beating him, and if he tells the therapist this, they HAVE to report it.

Perhaps coming from your child's therapist, CPS would be more inclined to investigate.

Hugs!

I agree with the others on most of what has been said. Poor child! Poor WWW! But one thing to keep in mind.

He's been told that if he continues this negative behavior, he will lose all privileges--outside play, friends over, park days, fishing with Pap, bike riding, etc

It's REALLY hard for a 5year old to see past the next minute let alone understand extended punishments like this. If he's restriction on Saturday is a result of something he did the previous Wednesday, it loses it's effectiveness, he probably isn't making the connection. Do your best to make the punishments, and more importantly the rewards, be immediate.

And he needs to be taught appropriate ways to express his anger and frustrations. He's showing these emotions to you because he trusts you to love him unconditionally. His abusive dad is too scary.

Hugs to you. Few things are more upsetting than trouble with your children.

I just want to repeat what others have said about teaching him safe ways to express his anger. When my kids were young we had one of those blow-up toys with sand in the bottom that you could punch and it would pop back up. It was a great way for them to get out aggression and they saw it as fun. As young as your DS is, I think some physical outlets would be a good choice. He's just so young, poor little guy.

I also agree on seeking out therapy for him. Hopefully, the therapist can hear about the abuse and report it.

We had a behavior chart a while ago. It listed all the behavior we wanted to stop and it had a point system. Easy stuff had a lower point (earned 5 points for no yelling) nd more difficult had a higher point (receiving a compliment from a stranger out in public for good behavior earned 20 points). Then we had rewards they would earn after they earned so many points. They would chose the reward at the beginning of the week and work to earn the points all week. It was understood that if they didn't enough they didn't get the reward and they had to try harder next time. Maybe your son would like to do something like that.

This is a really good idea. I like the point system. I will probably implement this. We do not have a chore chart as of now. However, my friend and I were just talking earlier about that tonight. She is starting an online one with her kids, and she says they really like it. I am going to check that out also.

It's REALLY hard for a 5year old to see past the next minute let alone understand extended punishments like this. If he's restriction on Saturday is a result of something he did the previous Wednesday, it loses it's effectiveness, he probably isn't making the connection. Do your best to make the punishments, and more importantly the rewards, be immediate.

Absolutely. I agree. He was warned because he had just transitioned. It was his "reminder" that "Hey, remember where you are."

His behavior was better today! He still had several issues that needed corrected. However, he transitioned much better today. At the park, of course he didn't want to leave again. He began to cry and tell me he didn't want to go. Very sternly, I told him, "If you want to cry, that's your choice, but if you choose to cry, I will not come back to the park this week. I won't be able to trust you again that we can leave when we need. ...and we're STILL going to leave. We'll just leave with you crying, choosing not to come back this week."

You could see in his eyes as I spoke he understood, and he quickly stopped crying, walked to the car, no problems. As soon as we were in the car, he was on to other topics.

Later in the day, he wanted to go to his friend's (same friend he threw a truck over not being allowed yesterday). I told him yes, but only for 20 mins, when he asked why, I said "....because you chose not to pick up your toys out of the yard although you said you would." He was noticeably mad about this, but he didn't throw a fit. I told him "19mins now...you just chose to spend one of your 20mins sulking" as he stood there sulking some, and he did go. When I went to get him, he did ask to stay longer, did state it wasn't fair (his mantra! ugh), but he didn't cry, didn't throw a fit. When we got home, he tried telling me (bossy voice) he was going to stay longer than 20mins the next day. I calmly told him, "We will see tomorrow about tomorrow. Tonight, you're in our yard the rest of the night. Tomorrow's privileges will depend on your choices tomorrow." Again, I could tell by his face, he understood. He was great the rest of the night!

Choice!! It's HUGE for this kid. I must have said that word 100 times today. I'm still thinking on which responsibilities to add for him, but already in just half a day of reminding him he is in control of his own behavior really has helped TREMENDOUSLY!