SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

2 X 4 warning - don't read unless you're willing to change:

There's the integrity thing again. Are there different definitions or levels of integrity? Like, maybe my meter for measuring integrity is not so much about forgiveness and taking the high road as it is about getting even, handing out punishment and not being walked all over and made to look like a chump.

No. Integrity is about being true to yourself in Shakespeare's sense:

This above all: to thine own self be true,

And it must follow, as the night the day,

Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Integrity is about what you do, not about what someone else does, Integrity is about being true to yourself, even when someone fucks you painfully.

**************************

I see you playing a lot of games.

You say your W avoids confrontation. IMO, that means you've got to do the confronting, but you don't report doing that.

You say your M suffered from lack of communication. Instead of increasing communication with your W, you start communicating with other women.

You conduct RAs and somehow think that will improve your relationship with your W.

You say , 'It doesn't feel like an EA....' How would you repond if your W said that?

IMO, your question shouldn't be whoismywife. It should be who-the-hell-am-I-and-why-am-I-acting-so-dysfunctionally?

******************************

What do you want?

In what state do you want to be in at the end of your recovery from cheating and being cheated on?

What are you willing to change about yourself?

Why do you want to R?

What have you done for each other in your life together?

You say you want R, but you act in a way that weakens your relationship. I don't get that at all.

Sisoon, Word.

Sisoon, I pray that you bring some of those 2x4's my way when and if I need them. Nice post, I could not have said it any better myself.

You know the problem with RAs? They just don't work.

I had one. My (now x) husband wouldn't quit cheating, he didn't understand why we couldn't just move on and sweep it all under the rug, he was tired of listening to me cry over his affair.

I joined dating sites, I just wanted somebody to talk to. Ex literally said "I don't want to hear about it again, if you want to talk to someone so bad, you can go to therapy and shut up." When I tried to see an IC he told me we didn't have the money. I found a guy who I thought was great, he listened to me, he understood, etc. We kept it online for 5 months or so, one night I told him I couldn't deal with my husband anymore, I wanted to drive into a tree, he asked me to come to him instead, and I did. After seeing each other for about 6 or 7 months, I found out he was married, and his wife was pregnant.

My husband knew about the ENTIRE thing. I told him I was looking for someone to talk to, and he said "good, then I don't have to listen to you anymore." I told him that obviously he didn't understand how hurt I was, because I had never slept with anyone else, so, I told him I was going to have sex with someone else, it ended up being the guy I met online who understood me so well. He told me to have fun.

He let the whole thing go on for the 6 months or so. When I found out the OM was married, all hell broke loose at our home.

He didn't understand how I felt, because, he knew what he had done so wrong to make me do that. He wasn't crushed. He didn't have to beg me just to tell him what he had done to deserve that.

He didn't feel more empathetic towards me, he felt I should be more understanding about why people would cheat, since I did.

He got angry and told me he cheated because he knew I would eventually.

Then, he told me he didn't have to do any work on our marriage, because he wasn't sorry. His affair only lasted 4 months and mine was 6, so I was the bad guy.

Then, he was pretty sure OM and I had more sex than OW and he did, so, he used that to justify cheating on me again, to even things up.

Taking the high road protects YOU. If I had just filed for divorce, I could have slept with whoever I wanted, and gotten emotional support and whatever else I wanted. He wouldn't be able to announce to my parents at dinner that I was a cheating whore.

If you want to work on things with your wife, then do so and leave other women out of it. If your wife is not willing to do the work, or if you really need validation from other women, then get a divorce. I'm YEARS out from my ex leaving. (what...5 or6 years now?) and he STILL brings up that I'm a terrible person because I cheated on him. He tells people we got a divorce because I cheated. If I say "you need to think about the kids" he comes back with "and did you while you were cheating?" His cheating is completely irrelevant to him, and has been since day one, the only difference is, I have him ammo to use against me forever, and it works, because I do feel bad and I do think I did the wrong thing, even though at the time, I thought it was fine. Amazing how effective the fog it.

Whoismywife - Have you thought for one minute how all this crap affects your child?

It sounds like you want to know without a doubt that your WW understands & feels your pain. Pain that she caused. I get it. You're seeking revenge!

I can't count the times I've prayed that my X & the OW would go through exactly what they put me through and experience that same pain to the point of being remorseful. The fact is they may feel remorseful but not know how to show it. They may be totally sorry but not be able to do enough to prove that. They probably struggle with thinking it would be easier for everyone if they didn't stay or maybe they've messed up enough lives, they should just marry the OP and make the best of the situation.

NOBODY wins in this situation and the people that suffer the most are the children because of their parent's bullshit choices & decisions.

If you can't forgive your wife, then let her go! Let yourself go! If you think going on dating sites seeking other women to talk to and understand is going to help your situation, you must be smoking dope!

Let your wife know how you're feelng. Tell her you love her, you want your marriage to be enough for both of y'all, you're scared, you need her to do x,y,z to help you move forward in a loving relationship with her. If she doesn't try, get a lawyer. Don't keep taking each other round and round the pain.

Love your child enough to do the right thing & not put them in the middle of y'alls issues.

I don't have any female friends and even if I did I probably wouldn't want them knowing about the trouble in my marriage.

That's a laugh. Posting your photo on a dating site tells everyone you've met, even acquaintances in your community who have seen your face once, that you have trouble in your marriage - announces it big time. And they'll probably now think you were the big cheat if you divorce, and warn their friends not to date you.

Everybody you know will know someone on a dating site who will say "Wow...Guess whose photo I just saw on a dating site.." and some of those people might be your customers, co-workers, people in your parents' church.

If what you're really seeking here is an excuse to go out dating, then you don't need our permission to leave and date.

I disagree with whoever said a couple needs a "healthy relationship" to have an open marriage. An open marriage is by definition not healthy, or it's not a real marriage in its truest sense, except for the legal papers part, and more of a friends with benefits situation dating others and maybe finding better partners down the road, but for now are in the same house with rings, maybe even raising kids. But it's not so special, sacred or tender to pimp out one's spouse and yourself for kicks.

Personally, I couldn't be in a marriage with a person who walked around the house quiet, never shared with me private thoughts and either looked hurt, offended or angry all the time without telling me why. I'd consider the person a cold manipulator and if after giving counseling a try, I'd leave that person, figuring they had no care for me at all.

[This message edited by Heavy Sigh at 1:43 PM, May 24th (Friday)]

To be honest, she'd probably be happy if I had my own affair.

It didn't make you any happier when she had one.

Yes, it's a great reason to focus anger. Maybe she would be happy to have a legitimate reason to be angry and hurtful. Though I think validated would be a better choice of words than happy.

IMO you are not in R. Your wife doesn't sound like she is doing anything to make you feel safe, and her telling you they have no feelings for each other means jack shit. They see each other once a week? I would be surprised if the A wasn't still going on.

You don't have to take the high road, no. You don't have to maintain your integrity. You can go out and line up a bunch of prostitutes and make them dress in LOTR outfits and play One Cockring to Rule Them All if you have the free time and money. The BS doesn't have to be anything just because they're the BS.

If you don't want to be exactly the same as your wife, then you don't do that shit. If you want to be some random cheating asshole who went and consciously made the decision to do all this then go for it. You will be a cheater, and your reasons for being a cheater will be as irrelevant as your wifes reasons for being a cheater. The two of you will be angry, bitter and mistrusting of one another and make strings of justifications like the OP making you feel better means you're happier at home, and divorce makes me look bad to the public, and a bevy of other excuses, when really it's just the same thing: angry, hurt people making selfish decisions because they didn't want to do things the right way, because the right thing is too painful or inconvenient.

You have total control over your choices, just like your wife does. Adding to the mess isn't going to make your lives any less of a wreck though. I think a better solution, since you're ready to move on and talk to other women, is set a divorce in motion, get that D and talk to these women. Her behavior doesn't really sound like you're in R, and your anger and mistrust are legitimate. Those feelings don't make shit choices any less shit.

Good point. No. I never would have considered joining a dating site or discussing marital problems with another woman. And the definition of integrity as something to do with acting consistently. So in this case, I guess I would not be acting consistently if I had an affair, or a least not consistent with my beliefs. However, punshing someone for bad behaviour is consistent with my beliefs so it's a hard one.

Then why not punish her in a way that is consistent with your beliefs? Are the two mutually exclusive, or do you feel that there is no other way to make her suffer the consequences of her behavior without selling out your beliefs and values in the process?

I'm not proud of the way I've handled everything post D Day; especially the anger and the increase in foul language. But in a big picture sense, I refuse to allow my wife and her AP to rob me of my integrity and values. They don't have the power to make me a cheater. They don't have the power to make me an accomplice in the destruction and degradation of my marriage. They don't have the power to make me feel worse about myself because of something I chose to do.

You shouldn't sell out your values and beliefs, either.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 2:24 PM, May 24th (Friday)]

Nobody has seemed to mention this yet....how is it fair to the innocent women on the dating site that you engage in conversation and possibly get them to like you? Some of those women could have been cheated on and left by their spouses They could have been divorced and wanting some validation.

If I was one of those women and found out the guy I was talking to was married I would think the following:

1. That he is probably trolling for an affair partner (any married guy on a DATING website MUST be a cheater)

2. That once again I was lied to and betrayed by a man... This could make it even harder for that woman to trust the next man.

If you plan on hurting your wife... Don't draw innocent victims into your game.

I understand how you feel. My exwh had an ea/pa with his married co-worker. My self esteem was shattered. I read the emails where they laughed at my attempts to entice my husband to be committed to me.

He had his A when I recently gave birth to our 2nd child. I was sleep deprived, still heavy from pregnancy, and forget dressing nice I was lucky to take a shower daily..the MOW had no child, was always dressed nice, and knew what lies to tell my wh.

I also wanted revenge/ justice but the sad thing is....if you cheat there still is no justice. There is no way to get your spouse to feel the devastation you did...it's impossible.

If you want to R then you need to take revenge off the table.

Speaking as a conflict avoider myself...if you want to talk about what is bothering you just go up to your wife and tell her. There is no way she is going to bring this info to you because it will lead to conflict which.....she avoids.

It sucks feeling like you have to do the right thing while they didn't. It's not fair. The ws will never be able to feel our pain, they might feel something like it but they will never feel our EXACT pain. I'm not saying they are emotionally unable or they are less than us, it's just that when you turn the tables it is not the same.

Are you really wanting these other women's attention or your wife's? Going outside of the marriage like you did will just put a bigger wedge in between the two of you.

What sisoon said, read it.

You doing what every other wayward on this board has done and it will teach you only one thing, eventually. You are betraying yourself. Unless these were things that you never held important in the first place. In which case, you should carry on but maybe not ask for the permission of those on a surviving infidelity website to do it.