SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Love is different to everyone. People grow up learning love to be different things and experiencing it differently.

Maybe some people have a problem identifying what true love is. A lot of people feel empty so they seek out someone to make them feel better or "loved"(hence seeking ego boosting affair).

Example: a love addict confuses the euphoric feelings of infatuation with love. If WS are broken people emotionally maybe they equated what they felt as love. Its very subjective.

In the words of my WS "he didnt not love me, He just loved his self more." It was a selfish love but its the only love he knows. He has never learned to selflessly love which is my definition of love.

My WS has never do I believe loved me in the way I experience and feel and show love but until he grows more emotionally and mentally, he has loved to me to the capacity his brain is wired to love.

ETA: a lot of broken people have many many mental defense mechanisms that allow them to do the things they do.

[This message edited by whensenough at 10:47 AM, May 28th (Tuesday)]

my definition of "love" was solely feelings-based and not at all actions-based

Wow. Thanks for that - it explains this 'love BS while screwing him' phenomenon to me. I don't agree that it was love, but you've given me insight into my W's thinking, and that's very valuable to me.

While I believe that they did love their spouse, and come to love them again and reconcile, come on, there was at least some brief periods that they did NOT love their spouse. Otherwise they wouldn't have cheated.

It took me 30 years of reflection, but I have come to believe that this statement is False. People are complicated, and it is entirely possible "to believe two impossible things before breakfast" to quote Alice.

I don't say this to increase the pain of any BS, and for a long time, it hurt me to think this. But, I'm also a WS, and can honestly say that my love for my W never diminished, even while "in the act". You don't have to believe me.

That doesn't mean that the action of having sex with another wasn't incredibly painful for the spouse (me included) or that it was a really crappy thing to do. No excuses here, but ethics, and morality, and Right Behavior are one thing (action-based) and Love is another (feelings-based).

When it comes to the actions, I'm sorry to say we both failed the test. But we never stopped loving each other, and we still do.

That's because Love is the one thing in the world that can be divided endlessly without being diminished, like the Loaves and the Fishes. Easy to say, so hard to learn.

And, although we stopped hurting each other with A's, we still hurt each other with other actions. She nags and bitches, I play fast and loose with the family finances. How many times have we both said, "If you really loved me, you wouldn't do that."

[This message edited by MoreWould at 3:06 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)]

No excuses here, but ethics, and morality, and Right Behavior are one thing (action-based) and Love is another (feelings-based).

I know that the dictionary definition of love is "to feel a deep romantic or sexual attraction to someone". That would mean many WS's love their AP because at the time, they feel desire etc.

To me, real love is more than brain chemicals and hormones and feelings. What good is WH's love if that's all it is?

Love is as love does.

I don't believe you can truly love someone whom you don't respect. My wife says she never stopped loving me. I call bullshit on that because when she would make up stories to be with him, lie about it, justify it, go back again and again even though she claims she was wracked with guilt, etc, she wasn't respecting me so she wasn't loving me. She's working triple time now to prove herself, but I don't buy the I never stopped loving you line.

Apart from those that are true sociopaths, there has to be some dehumanizing to have either an EA or PA. Once I tried imagining the types of thing my WW said about me in her head to justify her actions. I'm sure those things would make me want to curl up in a ball and cry. What kind of loving thoughts were in her mind to think I deserved this? During those times, no, she did not love me. I do believe her when she says she at times she felt a lot of regret for her actions, maybe, maybe in those times she might have still loved me in some weird perverted form of it. Just no way she loved me when she was telling the OM she loved him. You don't purposely hurt those you truly love.

There was no love in watching me be destroyed over his gaslighting and anger.

I once believed he compartmentalized it away and did love me.

Then he did it again and let me think I was crazy.

No love.

He told me a year after our divorce was final that he still loved me.

I don't believe it for a second.

I firmly believe the saying that goes:

"The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference"

Now when my fWH made the decision to have the affair and when he made the decision to sleep over at OW's house approx 40 times.... well on each of those occasions he tells me he "never thought about what he was doing to me", he tells me he "never considered the damage he was doing to me", he tells me that not once before or after having sex with her did he think "shit! What am I doing? I am betraying my wife!"

He would phone me from her house every evening to tell me "good-night and that he loves me and misses me" and then he would go inside and fuck her and sleep all night in her bed... twice a week, every week for 4 months. He told me he never ONCE thought about my feelings, or how he was humiliating me (all his work colleagues saw them flirting all day at work), or how hurt I would be if I knew what he was doing.

He was completely INDIFFERENT to my feelings. That right there is the opposite to love.

My fWH has told me that he believes he never stopped loving me. That is BULLSHIT.

I feel that my WS likes to BELIEVE that he loved me during the A because in his weird, mixed up thought-process that means the A was not so bad... You know - "I had an A but I still loved my wife the whole time, so it wasn't THAT bad"

Love is evident by the actions it brings forth.

My WS said he never stopped loving me and I believe that's what he truly thinks or feels. The thing is I didn't feel loved by him during that time. He was cold and distant. He picked fights all the time and we never argued much before that. For me, if someone is loving me I'd like to be able to tell.

[This message edited by 41andthankful at 3:47 AM, May 29th (Wednesday)]

As the BS, I think that XH has a bigger problem w/loving himself. Naturally that extends to if he doesn't love himself, then how could he have really loved me? I'm sure he did the best that he was capable of at the time.

I think my XH defines love more as a feeling, as opposed to an action. I'm guessing he was telling OW he loved her, while still w/me.

XH lied, gaslighted, etc after DD, so no talk about any of it. No idea if he 'loved' me while banging OW or if he 'loved' OW while fucking me.

As a WS, I still loved XH. However, at the time, I was so decimated and distraught, I used that as my justification. First time, I was incredibly guilty the whole time. Every time after, the guilt lessened a bit. But I did it, and continued to, for over a year. Partially because, in those moments, I wasn't thinking about XH. Partially so that one day I could hurt him as badly as he hurt me.

Haven't spoke to XH for close to 3 years, so I'll never throw it in his face & he'll never know. In retrospect, I was just as bad as he, b/c even though we were S at the time, I still wanted to R.

As for the 'love', well, still do. Or love the man he was/could be one day. My definition of love is more action based; the most loving thing I could do was D him. If anything is going to get thru to him at this late juncture, it is the finality of knowing I'm never coming back.

Some really thought provoking posts here.

For me I guess all that really mattered in the end is that XWSO idea of 'love' is not what I need or deserve.

If a person considers love to be a verb. Then the feeling is reflected in actions.

A affair is both physical and mental abuse. If love then were a verb this would not be love.

my definition of "love" was solely feelings-based and not at all actions-based

Funny. We were having this discussion about her As and I said this to her yesterday night. From what I have understood from WW, this line sums up her thought process during the A.

Personally, I think she loved me. But, something else (validation, physical attraction to that bastard, ego-boost, etc.) was far more important to her. What baffles me is that she maintains that she missed the way I touched her every time she was with POS1 and she thought of me always.

Since she had feelings for it, she had herself convinced that keeping POS1 in her life was the extremely important. So, she just continued doing what she was doing irrespective of that bastard's demeaning actions towards her. Neither did my loving actions matter to her, because her feelings were the primary thing for her.

[This message edited by CrappyLife at 10:53 AM, May 29th (Wednesday)]

My FWW has also said that she never stopped loving me. She has also said that she didn't think I loved her during that time; which is another issue that i believe has now been resolved. In addition to loving me, she said that "they ( her and the OM) always put their families first". And I have to believe that because she did indeed do everything that could be considered "taking care of the family" ...i.e. taking care of sick kids, running the household while working part time, etc.

However the "Hurt" side of me wonders how that all fits in with meeting OM for sex at hotel and at the park in our car???...something to do with the fog I suppose.

He was completely INDIFFERENT to my feelings. That right there is the opposite to love.

^^THAT! RIGHT THERE!! EXACTLY!!!^^

My WS said he always loved me and had no intentions of ever leaving me. I don't buy it for a second. You don't cheat and abuse someone you love. You don't lower yourself to sleep with some scumbag from your past that you didn't want the first time around. Like I told him if that's his idea of love than I want no part of it. The whole truth is he loves/hates himself more than anything else and that is a really sad way to go through life. His idea of love is the honeymoon stage of a relationship when everyone is happy and there are no problems to deal with. He can't face the everyday boring love that comes with being a married man. He wants the excitement of the new love and I don't think he will ever be satisfied with what we have now. I know I'm no longer in love with him the way I was before the A. I will at least admit to it and will not try and BS and say I never stopped loving him. There are days I actually hate him now and days I love him. It is such a double edged sword to try and figure out not only how you feel, but how the WS really feels now and during the A.

For my WH, "love" is just a word. If anything---and this is questionable-- it is tied solely to the feel-good emotions associated with new relationships. (In retrospect, for example, he told me he loved me FAR too quickly in our relationship, and "fell in love" with his "last" OW very quickly, too.)

He did not love me the entire time he was cheating. He cheated for most of our (very long) marriage, and I don't believe he loved me at all---ever. Once he got past that limerance? Nope. He married me, as he says, "because you loved me and I didn't know if anyone else ever would." Then he spent our marriage testing that.

There are days I actually hate him now and days I love him. It is such a double edged sword to try and figure out not only how you feel

Never a truer statement!

My WS said he always loved me and had no intentions of ever leaving me. I don't buy it for a second. You don't cheat and abuse someone you love. You don't lower yourself to sleep with some scumbag from your past that you didn't want the first time around. Like I told him if that's his idea of love than I want no part of it. The whole truth is he loves/hates himself more than anything else and that is a really sad way to go through life. His idea of love is the honeymoon stage of a relationship when everyone is happy and there are no problems to deal with. He can't face the everyday boring love that comes with being a married man. He wants the excitement of the new love and I don't think he will ever be satisfied with what we have now. I know I'm no longer in love with him the way I was before the A. I will at least admit to it and will not try and BS and say I never stopped loving him. There are days I actually hate him now and days I love him. It is such a double edged sword to try and figure out not only how you feel, but how the WS really feels now and during the A.

Absolutely agree with this. My WH's view of love is very similar to your WH's. But now, I don't know what kind of love we share. I am still trying to make sense of that because I do hate him as much as I love him and some days I hate him more than I love him.

Reading the many stories of unwavering love is a bit painful for me, WS told me he didn't love me. Perhaps it's another of his lies but I highly doubt it.